Nobody Should Believe Me - Gypsy-Rose Blanchard Part 2

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

In Part Two of Andrea’s conversation with Gypsy-Rose Blanchard, Gypsy reflects on systemic failures by doctors and child protective services and the long-term impact of being conditioned to fear helpers. She also shares what it’s been like to unlearn harmful coping mechanisms and build healthy relationships while reconnecting with family. Their conversation culminates in a hopeful note as Gypsy discusses her new role as a mother and her desire to create a positive legacy for her daughter. * * * https://www.officialgypsyroseblanchard.com/ Follow Gypsy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gypsyrose.insta Watch Mommy Dead and Dearest: https://www.hbomax.com/movies/mommy-dead-and-dearest/87b41129-1e1e-41ff-b32c-926711b94311 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

True Story Media. Hello, it's Andrea. And today we are sharing the second half of my conversation with Gypsy Rose Blanchard. But before we get into that, I wanted to address some of the conversation online about this interview and some of the feedback that I've gotten from you. First, I want to say that I know that some of you who listen to this show, including some survivors, have really complicated feelings about Gypsy's story. And in turn, my decision to air these episodes. And that's valid. This story has been held up as a monolith for munchausen by proxy abuse,

something we obviously hope to correct with the other stories we tell here on Nobody Should Believe Me. And I understand that the attention that this story has received can compound feelings of invisibility for survivors who don't feel represented by it. One of the reasons I wanted to talk to Gypsy is because she is expressed to me a number of times how much she wants to help elevate the voices of other survivors, which I think is a really laudable goal. This is the case I get asked about the most when people hear what I do for a living.

It's a complicated cultural touch point, but it's a big one. And in case this isn't clear, I acknowledge that Gypsy participated in a horrific crime. D.D. Blanchard didn't deserve to be murdered, and I don't condone it. I can hold space for the idea that someone can be a victim and a perpetrator at the same time. And that happens to be true for both Gypsy and D.D. And the reality is that Gypsy was held accountable for that crime in a way that perpetrators of abuse even those who murder their own children very rarely are. For me, Gypsy is neither a villain nor a vigilante heroine.

She's a human being who shouldn't be defined by her worst moments. There are a lot of complexities around victims who commit acts of violence against their abusers. And we're going to have my wonderful colleague, Dr. Kathy Ayyub, on to discuss some of those elements in a bit more detail. And again, if this discussion is just not something you have the space for, that's okay. There has also been a dedicated effort by people online to debunk the story of Gypsy's abuse, and that is entirely separate from the complexities of the crimes you participated in. This narrative rests on a couple of things, some of which we actually address in the episode, but which I will recap here because they're very common tactics used to disprove monchasm by proxy abuse

and so are worth addressing. The first is this idea that because Gypsy has a genetic condition that could have been responsible for some of her symptoms, that that negates abuse. This is a misunderstanding of muchhousin by proxy abuse. A child can have a medical issue that is exaggerated or made worse by a parent, or used as a justification for over-medicalizing them, isolating them, keeping them out of school, etc. That's all abuse. There's also the idea that Gypsy was actually the one fabricating symptoms rather than D-D-D. And again, this shows a lack of knowledge about this abuse dynamic and misunderstands the agency that even an older victim has in a case like this. This abuse is not confined to medical

abuse. It's financial, emotional, and psychological as well. The third big idea that comes up a lot is that D.D. Blanchard was never diagnosed with factitious disorder imposed on another or held criminally accountable for her abuse. But anyone who's been listening to this show for a while knows that that's true in most cases. And unfortunately, I know how dedicated the effort to disprove the existence of abuse is in some corners. So these are all arguments that I've seen before. So again, more to come in our conversation with Dr. Ayyub. You may have noticed that the conversation has gotten a little out of hand online, and we are going to moderate that space. But please do continue to let us know your thoughts on email at hello at nobody should believe me.com. We do our very best to be responsive over there.

Thank you, as always, for listening. We'll be right back with the rest of my conversation with Gypsy. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy.

Hey, I won! Feel the fun! Morning will begin when passenger fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close to you, call 18665330 or visit Comex Ontario.ca. Hey, it's Andrea. It's come to my attention that some of you have been served programmatic ads for ICE on my show.

Now, podcasters don't get a lot of control over which individual ads play and for whom on our shows, but please know that we are trying everything we can to get rid of these by tightening our filters. And if you do continue to hear them, please do let us know. In the meantime, I want it to be known that I do not support ICE. I am the daughter of an immigrant. I stand with immigrants. immigrants make this country great. I think, you know, as mandated reporters, you know, just follow that. If you have a gut feeling, you know, like for me, my doctor did put it in the medical files,

suspect parent of Munchausen by proxy. But unfortunately, my mother did hop around from hospital to hospital. So it was very hard to keep me at one specific hospital. and she would also request medical records, like copies of them. So it was very likely that she did receive a copy of that exact letter. And it tipped her off. And that's the reason why we moved to a different hospital after that. So I think that even, you know, even with doctors intervention,

just putting it in the medical records is not enough. No, and that's actually they're breaking the law by doing that. You know, as Mike Weber always points out, right, the detective we've had on the show a bunch of times, you are charting a suspicion of abuse without reporting it. And the law says, you know, in all states in the country, at least for now, you know, it says like reasonable suspicion of abuse. It doesn't mean that you've looked at every medical record and gone and found all the evidence. That's not a doctor's job. The doctor's job is to report it so that CPS and law enforcement. can do that investigation.

You know, CPS did come to my house. They did come to my house. And the questions that they were asking me, because they did take me into a different room, and they asked me questions, like if I had bruises on my body, if I had scratch marks. You know, they were looking for signs of physical abuse. They did not ask me questions about if I could walk or things like this.

So for me, I was, this would have been in, I believe, 2009 and you know at that time still again with even though I was a teenager very little maturity so I'm showing these people around my room like look at the stuffed animal mom mom bought me look at my Barbie collection like not really realizing who these people are and that they're here to help me and growing up as a child you know how parents always say oh be afraid of the boogeyman don't let the boogeyman get you but my mom referred to the boogeyman as what CPS is. She would call it the state. You know, don't be bad or the state will take you away.

And at that time, I'm thinking the state is a monster. I grew up being conditioned to hide from these people that are supposed to help. And that's a tragedy. It is. And unfortunately, that is. is that experience that you had with CPS is extremely common. They're not educated about this abuse. Most states, there's only two states that even have a designation for it. So there's not even like a box to check for Munchausen by proxy abuse. And it usually gets sort of filed under medical

neglect, which it can involve medical neglect also. But it's obviously a very different thing. And oftentimes CPS people will be like, oh, well, this child doesn't have any, you know, bruises on them or cuts. And this person has, you know, enough food in the fridge and appears to be taking care of them and look at them, they're taking them to the doctor all the time. They're not neglecting this child. And so there's just this deep, deep misunderstanding. Yeah. So I wonder, especially since you just went through pregnancy and you have a one-year-old, that's an experience that involves lots of going to the doctor. I think that's one of the most challenging parts for many survivors I've talked to, is that like just as a person with a body, you have to go to the

doctor. It's really important to like be able to go to the doctor and be able to trust doctors. And obviously that's something that it's very broken oftentimes for survivors. So how have you been able to navigate that? I think that it was a slow process because when I first got out of prison, there were things that I was curious about my body. I had difficulty sleeping. So the first time I went to a doctor was my primary care doctor. And my primary care doctor, I was inquiring as to birth control. And so here she is telling me about all these different options. And so, here she is telling me about all these different options. And I got afraid.

I'm like, I don't want to put anything in my body. I don't want to do anything in my body that unless it's 100% necessary. And she's just trying to explain to me birth control. So, you know, it was new to be able to have bodily autonomy and say, okay, I don't want this. I think that this would be a better option for me. and I was very open and honest with like my family and I'm like I don't trust doctors. And it's really funny because my sister was a nurse in school.

She just graduated and she's working as a labor and delivery nurse now. And I said, you know what? I think you're the only nurse that I like. Yeah. That's actually so wonderful. I'd heard you say that and I just thought, oh, that's so wonderful that like that seems like it might be a really positive bridge for you to be able to obviously you trust your sister a lot. She's a nurse. Like you have a trusted person. You can kind of like run medical stuff by. And like it struck me that that might be a really helpful bridge for you to like heal that relationship between you and the medical system.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, something I've been really glad that you have talked about publicly is this process about working to hold yourself. accountable and not just in the context of the, you know, the crime that you were an accessory to, but just more generally, right, of like not falling into some of these learned behaviors from your mom of, you know, getting your needs met via deception or manipulation. And I think this is something that, I mean, many, many survivors struggle with, right? If that's the, that the person that you were raised by and isolated with had these extremely damaging and dangerous coping mechanisms, you know, that's going to be a challenge to not adopt some of those learned behaviors. And so can you talk a little bit about that your process and what sort of

helped you develop more healthy coping mechanisms? Absolutely. I mean, in my early childhood and my, you know, teen years and early 20s, she was all that I had. You know, she was a single mother raising me on her own. And so, of course, everything that she was, you know, she was. And so, of course, everything that she was doing, I learned from her. That's how I grew up. And unfortunately, you know, that's the hard facts of it. She was not a positive role model. So how those things that I have learned, I am actively choosing to unlearn. And I've been working with a therapist with that. It is something that it's like peeling back layers. you have to understand why you do certain behaviors and then understand where those come from

and why you act that way. So I'm working on that in therapy. And what we're working on currently is my impulsive behavior. So, you know, it's like in communication. But it's something that it's a daily task. It's something you have to keep at the forefront of your brain. Like I understand that I grew up this way, but it does not give me an excuse to continue this behavior. You know, this is the wrong way. I was taught the wrong way. Let's apply the right way and make better choices. I am so firm on, I will tell anybody this, I'm so firm on not becoming my mother.

It is not even funny, how determined I am to be as far away from her personality as possible and her behaviors. Yeah, I mean, in that, I really commend you for being so active about that part of things because, you know, it can be, I think, quite complicated, right, for people who were raised in any abusive situation, right? To, like, they have to make a really active choice to not, we're all really influenced by our parents. We're all really influenced by, you know, profoundly influenced by what we grew up around.

And so I think, like, people deserve so much credit. it when they make really active choices not to keep that abuse cycle going. Right. Yeah. We've been talking about this profound isolation that you were subject to and that you were not allowed to build relationships with other safe. You know, really all that, and like you're a parent now, I'm sure you feel the same. Like, you know, all the things that we want our child to learn to do, right, to be able to develop

relationships with peers and to be able to learn that there are other adults that they can trust, you know, within the family or their teacher or, like, you know, you know, help them figure out who's a safe adult and who isn't. And you were just deprived of really all those experience kind of wholesale. And so how is that affected your ability to have relationships, you know, whether they're romantic kind of partnered relationships or just your relationships with peers? How have you navigated like that piece of just learning how to have healthy relationships with other people when you just weren't allowed to like develop those skills the way you hope a child would be. It's difficult. I manage because thankfully the support

system that I have loves me for me. They understand that I am not perfect and I do kind of mess up sometimes. But navigating, navigating friendships and all these sort of relationships are so much easier when you're a child, but because I didn't have that really growing up, it's, I'm learning all that stuff now. And so it's kind of like even this last Christmas, of course, what Christmas doesn't have a little bit of family drama. So it was my first experience kind of dealing with that. And I'm just like, oh my goodness, like how am I going to handle all this stress? And I just want everybody to get along. But thankfully, it's like I have such a great support system. And it's a daily thing of being able to learn how to communicate appropriately my emotions.

Because, like I said, I'm impulsive and I will act without thinking at first. And so whenever it comes to communication, building these relationships that are healthy comes with healthy communication enough to say, I'm having difficulties processing this. It's a lot on me right now. And I really need your understanding and your support. Just that little bit makes the world of a difference. Yeah. Well, I have to say, Gypsy, you're exceptionally good. at articulating these experiences and articulating your emotions and your thoughts. I'm so glad that you're in therapy. I think it sounds like you're having a really good experience with it and that it's been really helpful. I think also therapy is one of those things that people get into it.

Get out of it what they put into it. Can you talk a little bit more about your support system? You know, obviously I don't know them. I haven't met them. But certainly your dad and your stepmom, Christy and your sister all came off, I think, just really lovely in. the, you know, in the pieces of media that they did participate in. You know, you've talked about them being a support system. So can you talk a little bit about, I think that's such a hopeful part of your story that even though you were not allowed to have, you know, the close relationships that you wish you'd had growing up, that it seems like you really have been able to establish very deep bonds with them as an adult and in this season of your life. And can you just tell us a little bit about

them and what that's meant to you? Yes. I mean, my dad and my stepmother and, my sister, my brother, you know, an extended family, you know, they, they all were robbed of having a true relationship with me. I didn't grow up with my brother and sister. And so I'm learning who they are and we're all learning who each other is as adults. So coming into that, it's kind of like, it's a little awkward at first, but then, you know, after this time together of actual in-person and time, we've been able to make memories together and be there for each other through the ups and the downs. And what's wonderful is, you know, I always like to say that Christy is, you know, the mother I wish that I always had. And that's just because she is so supportive of me. She gives me so much

great advice. And my dad as well, like we were at Thanksgiving all together. And it's like a family tradition to go all around the room and say what we're thankful for. And I was saying how, you know, I've come to my dad with some really heavy stuff. And he has given me really solid advice. He is not the type of person to beat around the bush. He doesn't sugarcoat anything. And he'll tell it how it is. And he holds me accountable. You know, sometimes I need people to hold me accountable while I'm going through this growth stage in my life. You know, going back to the upbringing where it's kind of like you do kind of put excuses. Oh, well, I grew up this way.

So that's why I am this way. You know, and they're like, that doesn't give you an excuse to be that way now. So, you know, they hold me 100% accountable as well. And that helps me grow. And then my wonderful boyfriend Ken, who is the father of our child, Aurora, he has been so supportive and he is the best dad. And it is so beautiful watching us have this sort of life that I always imagined for myself. And it's it's kind of like, is this really my life right now? Do I really have, you know, the dad that I wanted the relationship with, the

sister, the brother, the mom, the, you know, boyfriend, the baby, like the dog. Like it's all, it's all a happy ending to a tragic story. But it doesn't mean that my life ends or that's where my story stops. It continues. But the worst parts of my life are behind me. Yeah. Well, I'm getting a little emotional, like hearing you say all this, because I know that for me and for a lot of our listeners who are in this situation where they have been cut off from family members who they wished to have had in their lives, you know, for me, my niece and nephew, we hear from dads who really tried to advocate for their children and tried to get, you know, and stepmoms and grandparents, and we have a lot of those people that listen to the show. And it's a profound loss, right,

to not be able to be in the life of a child that is your family member and that you hope to to have in your life. And I guess my question for you is like, for those of us that are on the outside and hoping to someday reconnect with those children when they become adults and hoping to have the experience that you're describing, you know, hoping to be able to someday sit around a Thanksgiving table with them possibly and be a good influence on their life and provide that wonderful support that your family is providing you right now. What would you tell me and others that are in that situation. Like how should we maybe someday approach those survivors?

I think calmly, definitely a calm approach because it could be overwhelming having people that either you didn't realize cared that much or are just coming in and you don't trust them right away. So I would say take a calm approach and have that hope that you could have that genuine relationship and take your time with it because it's not something that you could achieve overnight that trust needs to be built, that communication, memories need to be built. So time is the most important thing. So give yourself and others grace to know that it is coming.

That is the goal. It will happen. But it just will take time. And as cliche as that sounds, it is just so. true. And never lose that hope, no matter how hard the survivor might push back, because I told my stepmom at one time, I didn't like you very much. My mom said a lot of mean things about you, and I didn't want a relationship with you. But then she became literally my mom. Like, I call her mom. So even if there is that pushback, understand that there is so many emotions that that survivor is working through, that that person just need you to be there at their side and give them that time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's, again, like, that's common that family members who have attempted to intervene, attempted to protect the child, get cut out,

and then made into these, you know, as you said, like, boogie, boogie men, boogie persons, you know, where, like, oh, that person tried to take you away from me or they're out to get me or, like that kind of thing. And so, you know, I think many of us on the outside kind of recognize, oh, boy, we're going to have a heck of a sort of like impression to overcome about who we are and what our intentions were. And it sounds like for you, your, you know, your stepmom maybe in particular, just giving you that time to like work through all those feelings and really get to know her and make your own connection about what reality was, sounds like. Exactly.

Yeah. So I really appreciate that perspective and that advice. So one more. serious question, and then I want to do a couple fun questions if you're up for it. So, you know, part of what I had my listeners give me some feedback on what they wanted answered. And so we addressed a lot of stuff they asked about. And also just, I wanted to tell you that there was so many well wishes for you and just people that are, again, like really appreciative of what your case has brought in terms of awareness about Munchausen by proxy. And then just like that they're just like really want good things for you. And I know that they'll be so happy to hear everything and you just told me about how good things are at the moment.

Obviously, a major event has happened in your life. You've lived many, many lives in your short time you're on earth. And so obviously a big chapter has been that you are now a mom and you have a beautiful one-year-old daughter, Aurora. I talked to you when she was brand new, I mean, like, fresh out of the oven. And in that, you know, those tender first days. And so what has it been like for you as you sort of, like, charmingly put it, perhaps some mommy issues. Becoming a new mom is a profound earth-shaking experience

for anyone. Obviously for people who are coming in your situation and for survivors, it is fraught on so many other levels. So how have you navigated becoming a mom? It was something that, you know, of course, my pregnancy was unexpected. I wasn't trying or anything. But then when I found out that I was pregnant, it changed my whole life for the better. It made me take a step back and look at my life and realize that, holy crap, like, I am responsible, and I am about to be someone's mom. And how that word, mom, that title holds so many meanings for me. and what do I want to do differently?

And now that she's one years old, I have come to the realization that like just watching her simply grow and meet milestones and the moments that we're laughing together and we're playing and all of these things, I'm like is just so beautiful. And it made me feel like I want to be the best version of myself for her. And I know that I can't exactly speed my healing up, but it did make me mature a lot more and ground me so much more in my life. And I say, you know, she is my world. She, if I do nothing else right on this planet and I lead this earth having nothing else,

but if she calls me a good mom, that will make my life. I am slowly but surely replacing so much of my wardrobe with luxury, high-quality staples from Quince. So I've raved about Quince's incredible cashmere and cotton sweaters and their outerwear, but they are adding new categories all the time and I really wanted to mix it up. So I tried a few new things in my last order. First, I dipped into the jewelry. I got myself a very chic gold open contour cuff. It is gorgeous and it came in a very cute little jewelry box which made it feel extra special.

So if you are looking for a little Valentine's Day gift for someone, 10 out of 10 recommend. I also noticed at the top of the year that my workout gear was all looking a little grimy. So I treated myself to some leggings and tops from Quince. I got the power-up leggings and a couple of the ultra-soft v-neck tanks in this beautiful green color. They are so soft, but they're also functional. They look great and they are just helping me go to the gym. Quince is quickly becoming my everything store because I know they only work. directly with safe ethical factories so I can feel good about buying from them. And at this stage of my

life, I do not give a hoot about labels, but I want nice things. So Quince is perfect for me and I know you'll love it too. I am truly always recommending Quince to my friends, my family, as strangers on the street. It never stops. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com slash believe for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com. slash believe to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash believe. And remember that shopping with our sponsors is a great way to support the show. The ScoreBet app here with trusted stats and real-time sports news.

Yeah, hey, who should I take in the Boston game? Well, statistically speaking. Nah, no more statistically speaking. I want hot takes. I want knee-jerk reactions. That's not really what I do. Is that because you don't have any knees? Or...

The score bet. trusted sports content seamless sports betting download today 19 plus Ontario only if you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you please go to conixontario.ca. So now for some fun questions. First of all, you've had some interesting sort of celebrity adjacent experiences, one of which was going on the Kardashians. And because, you know, Kim Kardashian, one of the things she's doing in the stage of her life is, you know, sort of advocacy for for prison. reform and that kind of thing. So what was that like? And tell us about that experience. It was, it was wild because I know that I had made a post on social media and half of me was like kidding. And the other half of me was serious when I posted it. I'm like, hey, let's let's team up together to do some advocacy. And then next thing you know, like, I get a email and a phone call from her producer. like Kim wants to meet you and I'm like oh my goodness like this is epic now keep in mind I have

never watched the Kardashians and so honestly nor have I mean I've seen like bits and pieces of it because I think it's like unavoidable in this life but but so you you were not like you were not like a fan coming in you were just like hey this just kind of threw it out there you know the Kardashians and I'm like oh that's nice that's uh that's Kim show right yeah she's um you know she's a model right I didn't really know anything about her at all. I knew that she's extremely famous, and that's about it. But meeting her, she is so much more down to earth than people think. I will say that, like, after the interview was done and filming was done,

like we FaceTime with her daughter, we sat down for longer and had a good chat. She's just so down to earth, and she's a lovely lady. And I think it's wonderful what she's doing and building her career into, you know, more of a serious phase in her life. I think that's wonderful. And what did y'all talk about when you were in, like, in that episode? Like, what was sort of the advocacy angle? It was, it was sort of like her kind of almost mentoring me because I was overwhelmed with everyone calling me to advocate. So it was kind of getting feedback from her, like, you know, how do I start?

Where do I even begin? I'd have zero connections in the industry of where I need to go, where I could speak, how do I speak? And then what about the haters? Like, they'll be the naysayers. And so it was a whole conversation about prison reform, but also about where to even begin advocacy. And that was one of the other things I wanted to ask you about. And certainly, like, hopefully I can answer some of those questions for you. if that's something you're interested in doing and talk about, like, there's actually APSEC, which is the organization that I'm part of, the American Professional Society on the Amuse of Children, Mary Sanders and Bjorker and Dr. Mark Feldman, are all part of, they have one of their two big annual conferences in New Orleans. So that's quite local for you. So we should talk about that later.

But was that conversation with Kim, and I think it must have been helpful to sort of talk to her about as someone who's experiencing these sort of wild experiences on the, social media. I'm sure she said many of those as well. Like, was that, was that conversation sort of helpful for you? And where are you in that? I remember sort of saying and thinking when you were in that very fresh time of getting out of prison and navigating all of that. And people were like, well, she should be advocating. And I was like, only if she wants to. Like, we don't need to put that on anyone. That's not anyone's job. Like, I said then and about it and I will say it to you now. And you just were talking about your daughter.

And like, listen, Gypsy, if you go off now and live whatever life you want to live and you're focused on your healing and raising your daughter and being the person that you want to be with your family, like, that's enough. You don't owe anybody anything. You don't owe anyone anything. Just because this brought you all of this attention that you didn't ask for, you don't owe anybody you doing something with a platform like that just isn't something. I hope you can really let go of that. You know, I certainly have seen with survivors and certainly it's been my personal experience,

that it can be extremely healing and extremely valuable to, you know, talk about your experience, to share the things that you're sharing now, to meet other people who've been through this and support those people. Those can all be important parts of healing, but that's not necessary. That's not for everyone. And so I hope you don't feel, I hope that some of that heavyweight of that responsibility to do something because you're in the public eye can sort of dissipate. I think that just has to be a decision that I come to trying to weigh out the pros and the cons. It's like, okay, what do I feel like, you know, my life's purpose is? Is it to go on to share other survivor stories, which I think a big part of it it does and still try to figure out how to manage this private public life and

give each of it both respect. Never ended in the journey. Yeah. And I think like two, you were talking about the elements of time, right? I mean, this is all so fresh, you know. And so listen, I can speak at least for myself, for the community, you know, in Apsack and all that. Like, we will still be here. You know, if you if you decide, you know, now, just not the right time for me and I want to speak out on this in five years, 10 years, whatever. We'll still be here, you know? Thank you. Yeah.

Okay. Back to the fun questions. So you told me that you actually listened to a lot of podcasts when you were in prison. So do you still listen to podcasts and any favorites that you want to share? I do. I love to podcast in prison and I do listen to podcast. So, you know, Ken listens to podcasts too. So if one of this is not listening, it's the other listening.

love anatomy of change. I listen to them in prison. I listen to them now, and I love listening to them. I think, you know, the growth mindset just resonated so much with me. And I, I can only hope that when Ken and I get married, we have a relationship like Seth and Melody. What is the anatomy of change? I don't know, I don't know this podcast, yeah. It's a couple that they are both licensed therapist. And it's sort of like life coach. marriage and life coaching. So even if you don't get anything out of the marriage side of it, because I'm not married, but I am in a committed relationship, you get so much out of it and just how to navigate personal interpersonal relationships and stuff like that. So I listen

to a lot of that stuff. Nice. And then what about television? I hear you are a 90-day fiancé fan. Do you still watch 90-day fiancé? I do. And actually, like, a lot of the cast because all of us in reality TV have either heard of each other in one way or another on Instagram a lot of times the cast will be in my DMs. That is funny. Do you have like a favorite season or a favorite couple? You know, I've always been a fan of Jasmine. I know that she's a wild card.

She's wild and sassy, but I love her. And Jovi and Yara. So Jovi used to work with my dad on the boat. Because he's from New Orleans. Like he's from the local areas in the bayous. So yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, I've watched seasons on and off. We did have a very funny, you know, we don't get a lot of opportunities for comedy on my show, as you can imagine. We did have a very funny moment of crossover because our season six case took place in Hazlehurst, Georgia, which is a very tiny town. And it is known for being the scene of another true crime podcast. And it is the home of Angela. of Angela and Michael, who's like one of the most iconic 90-day fiancé characters. So I just was like, so now this is the third thing that this tiny, tiny one stoplight town might be known for. So, so yeah, I was interested in your thoughts on 90-day fiancé. It's a whole, it's a whole universe, 90-day fiancé. It really is. So many spin-offs. I had one of my questions from my listeners was like,

what does your Netflix algorithm look like? Like, what other sort of like, movies and TV are you, have you been into since getting out? Ken Jokesmith. He's like, if it doesn't have romance or fantasy, you don't like it. But so there has been recently on, I think it was on Apple, pluribus. That is a really good show. So the first season just ended, really into that. We've actually been watching The Chosen.

Oh, okay. I don't know if I know that one. That's really good. I mean, we're on episode like five. Jesus has already come into the picture, which is great. So we didn't have to wait a long time for to see Jesus or anything. So just like, unlike everyone on earth who's just still waiting. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So I mean, listen, if you are into romance and fantasy in terms of books, like what a good moment for you because right now everything in books is romanticcy.

Like that's the big thing. So are you into like fourth wing or have you gotten into any of those like series or? Unfortunately like I have not had time with a one year old. No time to read. No time to read. Oh my goodness. Fair enough. The last book that I was going to try to read was the newest hunger games book.

And I haven't even been able to crack it open to read it. Yes. Not a big reading time having a one year old. Maybe after she's eight. Yeah. Well, you have some fun. She's not at, I would ask you, you're probably not even old enough to really be into any kids' media. But you've got some fun stuff ahead of you, like bluey, K-pop demon hunters, you know, when she gets a little older.

I'm a Miss Rachel fan. That's actually the theme that we did her birthday party was Miss Rachel. And it was I dressed up like Miss Rachel and everything to like get into it. Oh, that's so cute. And you told me the other day that actually you had like a lovely little exchange with Ms. Rachel herself, who is just like a true icon on all fronts right now, true. Just such a hero for kids, such a hero for kids. I know. She is. I admire her work so much. The kids love her. Every time Aurora sees her on TV is just instant smile. It's great. Oh, that's so, that's so wonderful. Ms. Rachel, nothing but good vibes. Yeah, I mean, just anything else like. that you're obviously you have a one-year-old, so that's mostly what you're doing. But like, what are just some other things that are that are bringing you joy and, like, and happiness right now in this stage of your life? Well, I think, honestly, that family, that family time, you can never get enough of that. I think that right now, even with Aurora being one, I think that right now

is a good time for me to explore certain avenues of my voice. So currently in pre-production for my own podcast, we don't know exactly what it would be titled or when we'll launch it yet. We're still in very early development. But I think it'll be wonderful for me to explore being able to have conversations with other survivors, as well as others that are well informed about not only Munchausen by proxy, but other forms of child abuse and abuse in general. because again, like I said on our little chat, I'm so tired of talking about myself that I kind of want to focus more on giving others the respect and the platform and the voice that they deserve to have to share their stories. Yeah. Well, I think that's wonderful. I'm excited to keep in touch with you about that project.

And yeah, I mean, just like my kind of final question for you, I mean, you, you know, you. You've been through a lot. And what's something about your journey that you just feel really proud of right now? I feel like the thing that brings me the most pride is my resilience to keep strong and keep going. And that sort of hope and belief that, you know, again, you are not your past. That is what drives me so much because, you know, what do we have in this life? a legacy and a name. And the things that we have been through does not have to be what we are

known for. You know, I would much rather be known for, you know, living my life, standing for what's right and giving others a voice instead of curling up in a ball and crumbling and saying my life is over. Yeah. Well, you haven't done that. And so, yeah, I think that's beautiful. You know, That's something Dr. Mary Sanders, you know, that she said, like, no one is the worst thing they've ever done. And I think conversely, like, no one's the worst thing that's ever happened to them. And so I'm excited for you to be in this stage where you can move past sort of those two things. Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Gypsy.

Nobody Should Believe Me is produced and hosted by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our editor is Greta Stromquist, and our senior producer is Mariah Gossett. Administrative support from Nola Karmouche.