Nobody Should Believe Me - Introducing: Affirmative Murder

Episode Date: October 17, 2025

This week Fran and Alvin discuss food, Pakistan, and American history. *** Listen to Affirmative Murder: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/340-em-eye-ess-ess-eye-pee-pee-eye/id1296864488 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

True Story Media These are harrowing times in America, especially for our friends and neighbors in immigrant communities. So if you're looking for resources or ways to help, we wanted to let you know about a wonderful organization that we're partnering with this month. The National Immigrant Justice Center has worked for more than 40 years to defend the rights of immigrants. NIHC blends direct legal services, impact litigation, and policy advocacy to fight for due process for all and to hold the U.S. government accountable to uphold human rights.

NIGC's experienced legal staff collaborate with a broad network of volunteer lawyers to provide legal counsel to more than 11,000 people each year, including people seeking asylum, people in ICE detention, LGBTQ immigrants, victims of human trafficking, unaccompanied immigrant children, and community members who are applying for citizenship and permanent residents. NIHC continues to fight and win federal court cases that hold the U.S. government accountable to follow U.S. law and the Constitution. In recent months, NIHC's litigation has challenged ICE's unlawful practice of arresting people without warrants and has successfully blocked President Trump's proclamation to shut down access to asylum at the

border. As ICE continues to abduct people from our communities and the U.S. government deports thousands of people without a chance to have a judge consider their cases, it is more important than ever that we come together to defend due process. All people in the United States have rights, regardless of immigration status. You can donate and learn more about NIHC's work by visiting immigrantjustice.org. That's immigrant justice.org. You can find that link and more information at our website. This ad was provided pro bono. Hey, it's Andrea. It's come to my attention that some of you have been served programmatic ads for ICE on my show. Now, podcasters don't get a lot of control over which individual ads play and for whom on our shows, but please know that we are

trying everything we can to get rid of these by tightening our filters. And if you do continue to hear them, please do let us know. In the meantime, I want it to be known that I do not support ICE. I am the daughter of an immigrant. I stand with immigrants. Immigrants make this country great. laughing non-stop case drops on a cycle thought as an intrusive thoughts off an iPhone how they make the world seem bright with the lights off a-ups it might as well stay up lines being told like that dinosaur BS magnifying glass to the ground up they don't see us having a dime roasting your favorite pizza boozian option is the waves

make it to the grave app moving to the blaze you already know when they take the case laugh the pane away so fire an hour hello hello and welcome to another episode of a affirmative murder the equal opportunity true crime comedy podcast i'm alvin williams joined as always by my partner in true crime francois evans what up mr postman what is going on for a man not much man what is going on these crazy times on the ethernet here um um I don't know, man. I mean, what are we getting into today? We're going, what will we touch knowing?

Well, listen. My hardest stuff? Yeah, listen, as Janice Smith, the founder of wokeism, said many a moon ago, the political and economic state of the world, I don't want to talk about this week, you know? Can we not talk about that this week for once? You know, there's a lot of crazy shit going on. I have my thoughts.

If you follow any of our social media platforms, you know I'm giving it up crazy on there. I'm not, like, remaining silent. but I'm here to talk with my homie for a little bit. Let's have some laughs. So, Fran, once upon a time, a fast food chain set the world on fire with a sandwich. They've come back in 2025 with another mission to disrupt, to destabilize. Popeyes has released the Don Julio collaboration.

And it is everything that I feared. Yeah. I saw some dude running around a Popeye's at like 10 o'clock in the morning pouring people shots of Don Julio. I didn't know why the Popeye's was full. I'd never see people sitting in a Popeye's. Yeah. One thing about Popeyes is it's working class chicken. You get it after you get off work, you take it home to your family.

Yeah. I've never seen people sitting in Popeye's dining in. And now the Don Julio collab comes out. And I've seen all the little wooden benches with the curves on the back. Yeah. They're all full with people now getting poured Don Julio into their drinks. Now, could this been in propaganda? Sure.

But that speaks to who they think they need to give money to to sell the chicken to us. What have you seen since the release of this Don Julio's collabies collab? I have seen the excitement of... We're going to use that word excitement about chicken. Dark liquor and fried chicken. And I recently just saw. a video of like you can like get a section

and you can have the bottle girls come out with the sign and the sprinklers and shit with the Don Julio I need you to stop and they dance and they got like little you know sexy little I need you to stop I swear I just I just I just saw this they got like a section you can and then they got the drink girls come out

at the Popeyes at the poppies with the little sign the sprinklers and shit the Don Julio on their hand I said nah this is crazy I didn't know you can get sections at Popeye That's near me But I mean that speaks volumes of what They are like They're essentially just like

blatantly with a high level disrespect in our face Go ahead Going like hey Black people love Black people all you care about is Where you're easily manipulated Black people care about

Fraud Chicken Don Julio Some type of some dark some type of dark liquor. Clubs, a VIP section, and attention. It is. We got that all in package.

It's coming to Popeyes. Yeah, full rollout, deceptive distraction program. And I know that, you know, my people are not a monolith. You know, so I know it's a lot of people that think the way we think as far as like, this is crazy.

Like, I mean, I like Poppies as much as the next guy. And when you're, You said this. You said this many of times. And I never seemed to ask you, what is the meaning of when you say black people are not a monolith? Does that mean that black people are all not the same? That's exactly what it means. That's exactly what it means.

Okay. So, but. So why do you say that, though? Because I say, I don't want to, our thought, I don't want what we're saying in the conversation that we're having. Somebody could hear this and be like, everybody likes fried chicken. So I think it's racist for you to even. be offended, like me as a black person, I'm offended that you're making such a big deal about black people eating chicken. Does that make sense? So it's like almost like, we're the bad

people for being like, why they got us out here drinking the Don Julio in the streets and eating chicken. It's like, I know there's a black person out there in the world that's like, I just see people eating chicken in the streets. I don't, I don't look at us as what they have depicted us as. So why are we carrying on those stereotypes by being upset about people eating fried chicken. I agree to a point, and that point is just about any Popeye's campaign that I've ever seen. I think it was Popeye's that had Jerry Rice with the helmet on that had the drumstick going through the... I see that. Jerry Rice had the helmet. He had the helmet on and the bar that grows across the face for the football. He had infused the chicken bone into the helmet so he

could eat chicken while he plays football. But he was, this is retired Jerry Rice. So I'm like, Why can't you just be Jerry Rice to retire football? Why are you even wearing a helmet in the commercial? We have not seen you catch a football in 20 years. Yeah. But they make you go to put on your costume when you go to entertain us. Don't fit. Yeah, you know, well, you got to dress up like the, you got to do the thing.

Dribble the ball. No, man, Magic Johnson should, and it does, should just get to come out and be like, hey, man, y'all know who I am. I don't need to like put on in the Lakers to short shorts in my 60s and be like, remember me, man? Look, I'm dribbling the basketball. But it seems to me like every time Popeye does. something they're like, oh, the brothers and sisters are going to love this.

And I don't know if a black person owns Popeyes. So I don't like that. I don't feel like it's a room full of black people being like, yo, we're going to do the Popeyes, Don Julio collab. That is a good question, though. You know, like, what is that? Are there any Popeye's franchise being owned by black people? That's what I'm saying.

But it doesn't matter because, you know, the franchise just does what the head says. So I would love to see the focus group, where is there a lot of black people in that focus group that's like, what do black people love besides fried chicken? And obviously, we know they love fried chicken. What if we did in the stores a Don Julio fried chicken collaboration? I could be wrong. Maybe the CEO of Popeye is a black person, but it just seems to me, like you're saying, every time these kind of situations come with Popeye's, they go like, it shit gets crazy, man. People doing, uh, dance videos outside of the Popeyes for the chicken sandwich and yeah, all of these things. And this one,

it got further and more egregious because I will say the Pop-Pas chicken sandwich marketing was very organic. Black people just got excited and it just started going viral so black people wanted to go viral, eat the sandwich, whatever. This one is like, it's telling to me who they think they need to call to sell this sandwich. It's like they had a whole rollout for these people to give to them so you could sell the chicken to your followers. So the shit got kind of crazy, man and and you know it hasn't been as egregious as the Popeye's chicken sandwich chaos of 2020 like nobody's getting stabbed but I don't like seeing these social media influencers and like you're saying I didn't see the video you saw but the video I saw I was a dude and a Popeye just running

through the Popeyes with a Don Julio bottle broad daylight giving Don Julio to middle age people like just you know in in the middle of the day like don't don't film us drinking dark liquor and eating fried chicken to put on the internet to show to people. Can you see this? I can see this. Don Julio ex-Papai's collab club vibes in the restaurant. I'm not going to play in the sound because I don't want to mess a beat. Yeah, don't let no strikes.

Yep, wow. Yeah, those are bottle girls. Yeah. And that's just a Popeye's marketing sign. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, was this a prank or what do you think about that? What I think that was, again, this is what I say about black people not being a monolith. These look like young black

kids that are like, yo, this is going to go viral on TikTok. Let's make a whole scene out of it. Let's have fun about it. I don't think this was a sanctioned Popeye's event. I hope to God it wasn't. I'm going to give them the benefit of that and say, this is a bunch of like very smart kids attacking the algorithm. Like,

what do you think it go viral? What if we had like the bottle girl come out and bring us to Don Julio collab? I think this is an organic marketing campaign, but I'm still like, why you got the girl, bottle girls. I'm not here to shame people for going to go eat chicken. Everybody likes chicken. They don't treat it like that. They treat it like

we know who wants this chicken. We know who wants this collab. Like I mean, I mean like we don't give them we don't give them that though that's like evidence when especially when the Popeye's chicken sandwich came out and the lines were full and people were being overworked and you couldn't

even get the first week you couldn't even get one first week. Whatever when they dropped you couldn't even get one. So like lines were long. It was bro. It was Black marketing. It was insane. People were buying up all the sandwiches and then going to redistribute them wholesale

at like barbershops and stuff for double the price. Yes, you flip in Pop-Pas chick sandwiches and they see that and they go, okay, let's up the Annie. How can we up the Annie on this? Don Julio, and then present it in like a Jordan box

was like, you know when you get Jordans and then you get like a T-shirt and shit? There's a box and then there's a box inside of a box. Yeah, it's like this is really. This is insane. These are chicken strips. It's kind of like a, That's meant for you to just hold on at some type of sentimental reasons.

Yeah, it's going to be resale value. Yeah, I remember that time. That's crazy. I got Deadstock, Popeye's ex-Don Julio collab merch from 2025. That's why. It's 2040. You selling that for 10 grand. Yeah.

And that's the part, you bring up a good point. That's the part that makes me like my antennas pop up where I go. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. But then it's like, it's not racist when we do it. Yeah, like when we're having fun about it Even that video you just showed me like that's them having fun But then when the Popeye CEOs watch that And they go, okay, so let's incorporate this

In our marketing Like instead of just making a sandwich and putting it out They go, how do we get some of that energy back From when they did the Popeye's chicken sandwich excitement? Yeah, I know black people love liquor What if we did a collaboration with a liquor company? This is when it gets racist when they go Okay, we saw how organic fun

looked, how do we make that businessy? This is no different to me than when in 2020 Pepsi was like, we see all these protests and George Floyd got killed and everything. I got it. Let's go get Kendall Jenner and have her go give Pepsi to a police

officer in the middle of a riot and then the riot stops because Pepsi's so delicious and crispy and quenches your thirst. And that was the commercial they decided to go with in the midst of like civil unrest and everything like that. This is is a version of that to me

where they go remember when black people were all excited and stabbing each other for chicken sandwiches how do we get that back but with our brains not because we can't just we can't rely on black people to be organic again what if they don't like the new sandwich with the with the crispy bun or whatever these

whatever this whatever's in this box yeah what if they don't get as excited about the Don Julio collab without us making more of a big deal about it and this is what a big deal looks like to them when they spend money on the when they spend money on the marketing this is what we get foolery VIP sections in the Popeyes and people pouring liquor in the people's cups that the

shit looks crazy and I'm not here to be I was about to say a person's name that we can't say anymore but fuck it because it's true still once upon a time Bill Cosby was a guy that was like yeah what he would be like pull your pants up and stop eating chicken and come I'm not trying to be that. For many, I'm not trying to be Bill Cosby in any way. But I'm just saying, like, I'm not here to be like, hey, man, we got to stop eating chicken. That's not what I'm here to say. I'm just saying, like, let's relax a little bit.

We don't got to be so enthusiastic and all this shit about the shit, filming ourselves. That's a thing, no, that's the thing. We are, and so, like you said, being enthusiastic and then giving all this energy of, like, a chicken sandwich. they go look they love it they love it and it's just self-fulfilling that's the part that makes me sick

like don't make them right in their racism yeah like what do we do wrong you guys clearly love it yeah you guys are dancing and pouring liquor into the

you guys love Donhulio and chicken we were right you're eating it and drinking it at the same time you're dipping the chicken strips into the Don Julio you guys are loving it and I'm like not us

we're not monolithic yeah that's why I say because I'm like just like I'm saying But, yeah, but we, most of us do, though. Most of us do what? Like chicken, fried chicken.

Yeah, but like, why are you keep saying that when like, you're like it's 50-50 when like like, no, that's not, that's not accurate. No, but like, this is odd. Oh, my God. I hate this. But it is too. We love fried chicken.

But like, but like everybody loves fried chicken. That's my issue. Not like black people, bro. Not like black people. There's a different love for black people. We create, I mean, it's, it's our invention. Like, it's black, it's kind of like black culture. Right.

But, like, anybody, if you said watermelon, everybody loves, oh, everybody loves watermelon. Yeah. Okay, that, that's different. That's not like fried chicken. Now, if they came up with, like, watermelon and, like, the Don Julio bottles stuck to the, you don't talk about, like, like, like, a tropical drink, like it comes in a watermelon, like it comes like a coconut? No, that would be crazy.

If they had that. Well, you guys love it. This is a little tropical drink with an umbrella in it and it's a little watermelon. A coconut painted like a watermelon? Yeah, they got like they got like the bottle hanging out. No, he's with the coronas. A floater. A floater.

Yeah, floating out of a watermelon. There were those like that's like that's like a side. Yeah. You can get the upgrade. Get extra donned out. Extra don't. The double don. You get the Don Julio mini hanging out of the watermelon bowl.

Yeah, man. We just love, we love fried chicken. Stop saying it, though, because don't stop. We don't love fried chicken. I'm not, look. You don't love fried chicken? Don't ask me that. You don't love fried chicken?

Don't ask me. Don't ask me. You don't love fried chicken. I'm not acting like I don't love fried chicken, but don't ask me that. Do you or do you not? This is the thing, right? I'm not trying to sit here and act ashamed of liking fried chicken, but I'm just saying, like, this is why I say the not monolithic thing.

Because there are people. There are people. There are people that are here that will hear this conversation and be like, why are you guys so obsessed with the idea of black people eating fried chicken? Everybody likes fried chicken. That's one end of the spectrum. But then there's the other end of the spectrum that's like, I fucking love the Don Julio's Popa's collaboration. And who are you to tell me not to eat it? So I'm like, we're not here to speak for all black people because all black people think differently.

From our perspective, and there are other people who have the same perspective as us, I assume. At least there's two right here having a conversation with each other. This shit looks a little crazy when you get too excited. about it. We don't need to jump in the Chubbubb kick out heels. We don't, we don't need to do that. That's, this is too much.

We just get, we just, they're going like, see? It does a disservice. Like, we need to think bigger than, sure, like you asked me that question. Sure, I love, I love fresh. Yeah. I love fried chicken.

It's delicious, you know? Like, it's this, it's crispy, all those things. It's juicy. It's delicious, man. But I would never, you would never catch me biting into some crispy fried chicken,

like on camera or like in promotion of some I would never there would never be a chicken sponsor on this podcast So Popeyes came to a It would there's not a dollar They could give me to be like What to be like affirmative murders

Brought to you by Popeye's Mm hmm There's nothing Bring it The crispiness Man I'm like you can I'll take it

Get to Popeyes now And get a murder me six crispy drumsticks with the red beans and rice and with the bloody red beans and rice and don't forget a biscuit I'm humming and stuff no I'm you'd have to I mean you could take all the proceeds the affirmative mac and cheese delicious just like grandma used to make I'm salivating just thinking about it yeah like walk, don't run. Get to a Popeye's before all the chicken's gone.

I'm not, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that, bro. I'm not marketing that. I'm not promoting that. You have promoting that? I can't do it, bro. I can't. No, I can't do it, man.

Wow. I can't do it, man. Okay. And maybe that's me perpetuating dumb stereotypes that we should let die, but like, I don't think it's dying. So I feel like... But why wouldn't you take a sponge of papas?

If everybody loves fried chicken. If I had full creative control of the marketing campaign, maybe, to where you might not even know it's a chicken commercial. But I don't think that would be the case. I'm not trying to be in an email chain with some ad executive that's like, so we wanted to sound really organic. So really make sure you, we gave you a script, but we want you to kind of go off script a little bit to really show how much you love fried chicken. Yeah. And then I send it in and they're like, could you really show some more love to the show? We love the ad.

You know, you hit all the spots about getting there today, use the code and all that stuff. But could you, like, do another one and just talk more? Same the song. We'd love you to hum more. Love that chick. Broom, b'am. Could you talk more about your mammy, like, about, like, growing up and how your mammy would make chicken? Maybe you could do more like that, like an organic type of thing like that, and maybe make some crispy sounds, like you're crunching into the chicken.

We'd love that. So, like, maybe do another read. We love what you gave us, but maybe do another one a little more enthusiasm. I'm not trying to be having that kind of conversation. No. You got to draw the line. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that.

So, yeah, man, I don't know. Listen, fried chicken's delicious. It is. But I'm not getting on camera to praise fried chicken ever. And if that's like me being too, thinking, overthinking it or trying to be like a bourgeoisie or something, I don't know. I'm sorry, but, like, that's just how I feel. I would never get on camera and be like, this chicken is delicious. My eyes are all big.

I'm making them big and bug down. I was like, I can't. I can't do it. So, but yeah, listen, man, before we take a break, because I can talk about that all day long. Real quick, man, shout out to this lady in Pakistan, Nikki Minaj's cousin. I don't know who this is, but I've been obsessed with this for a week. Yeah, I heard about the story. I don't know the full store and all the details, but I just know bits and parts. So this woman, first of all, I mean, she's kind of a predator. This woman whose name is like Omyra something or O'Neika, that's Nickymanage's name.

She is doing like a, she did like a 90-day fiancé type of thing. But the guy is 19. So she's like 35. She's married or in a relationship, has kids and everything. She got on a flight. I hope this doesn't sound racist. But I didn't even know you could just go to Pakistan. like she's clearly from like queens or something like that

I didn't know you could just get on the plane I didn't know you could like today I can go on my phone and be like I'm gonna go get a flight to Pakistan I didn't know that you could just do that really yeah I just didn't think I don't know it feels like that's first of all it's an international flight like I don't know what our relationship is

with Pakistan at the moment like I just didn't I didn't think it was like just cool it's like I feel like in my mind it's like Cuba like you can't not that we're embargoed but like I just didn't think it's just like you could just go to Pakistan yeah so that was news to me when I see this woman that's like yo first of all like yo I need 30,000 yeah I was like

what is this I first I thought it was fake and I'm looking around at all the people I'm like no these are Pakistani civilians living a day to day life and there's just this woman from queens in a burqa like yo first of all I need to tell y'all we're gonna knock all this down I need 150,000 I'm gonna rebuild the city I want 100,000 I said what what did you And it's like how did you That was my first time It was like she walked in off a set Like it was an SNL sketch

Like she just walked into Pakistan From like off camera And all of a sudden she's in Pakistan This is crazy, listen to this Turn all this down What do you need right now My feet is swollen I need 5,000 a week

You need 5,000 a week Who's give you 5,000 There's all our poor people Yeah, I better figure it out There's all our poor people They are not a rich people Ask the government He talked too much

That's it Yes, that's it Yes, I'm saying You talk too much Thank you I have a good day I just have a shit She's definitely from New York

I don't understand So like how much of this How much of these She went over ready to get married Right She went over to like I think I got sidetracks So I don't think I finished it

So yeah So she's in her 30s She meets online She starts an online Relationship with this 19 year old she flies to Pakistan off of the strength of the online commiseration. Like they, you know,

like they bonded so much that she's like, yo, I'm going to go out there and meet my husband. He's 19. She shows up a grown-ass late. She's like 34 years old. She shows up his parents, because he lives home with his parents,

they're like, nah, what is this? Who are you? Yo, I'm here at me, him and get married. We're going to go get married in Dubai. They were like,

nah. Slam the door in her face. And she just never left. And so she basically is down the street from his house. and is on the news like yeah I'm here my husband we're married we already got married but we're going to go have a ceremony in Dubai and I need a hundred thousand dollars from the government of Pakistan and she just won't leave so we need to go get her money to leave like what's happening well her family's come out and said she's out of her mind like clearly like everything about this is this is a mentally ill person like this is but she's got such a new york confidence that you're like but when we say that mentally ill put up and like bro she's in Pakistan I get that I get that you're like I get that. Yeah, but she had, but she was able to get on a flight and go to Pakistan. That's true. I mean, now she's, now that she's like, she's there and she won't leave it, now she's crazy.

She was crazy when she bought the ticket to go to Vegas. She was always crazy. She was always crazy. She just is functional enough to be able to go buy a plane ticket and get on a plane. I don't think she got on. I'm sure the plane ride was crazy too, but just not too crazy that she got kicked off the plane. So, you know, and now she's there. She's going full-blown.

crazy. I can't stop watching videos. Flying to Pakistan is crazy. Flying to Pakistan is crazy. Like, that's insane. Like, what? I just couldn't believe it. So, yeah, this lady's out in Pakistan talking wild crazy. Like, these are like, I think these are like political activists that they're having a meeting about trying to get some shit done in their country. And she's like, yo, I need a quarter million. Why it to me by Thursday? And they're like, okay, yeah. Thank you very much. She's like, no, first of all, praise to Allah.

Lord be to Allah and all of that I'm married I'm a Pakistani And they're humoring her But eventually they're gonna stop humoring her And I'm concerned about this woman Somebody just decided to hit her in the head with a rock Like get the fuck What you're talking about? Why are you yelling at everybody?

Everybody's talking about everybody crazy She's out there talking to people wild Like Remy Ma She's talking like Remy Ma She's like, are you dumb? She's sleeping like on the street I don't know But I am

I am obsessed and fascinated I don't know what she's doing I don't know where she's sleeping But I'm concerned for her safety But I'm also like This is fascinating and hilarious But I'm also like When this stops being funny

I get the same kind of vibe Of like early Orlando Brown When it was like Yo what's he doing climbing the telephone pole And talking about ooshkosh And it was funny

But then you go But all right It's not funny to me anymore I'm concerned Now it's still funny to me But it's starting to turn Like where is this lady sleeping And is she okay

Like do these people Are these people dangerous Like are they getting fed up with her And once they're fed up with her what happens then so that's starting to set in it's still funny when i see some of the clips but there was one she's on the phone she was eating a eating food and on the phone like yeah no i need a jet brought to me i'm not going anywhere without a jet make it happen yeah i don't understand why she's not i don't understand the whole i'm not leaving until i get whatever yeah she's very

indignant i don't know why she thinks why are they why would they need to give you money but she's going to cause an international incident man like they're going to have to go like negotiate This is going to be, like, okay, I said I didn't want to talk politics, but she could just leave, though. He just doesn't want to leave. She can leave until they decide, like, yo, put her in jail. Like, you know, until she crosses a line that makes her get arrested. And then the second that happens, because this is viral enough, Donald Trump's going to go get her to be like, I'm going to get some good favor with black people. I would have said that if this was his first term, he can't get reelected again.

So she has no chance. they're not going to go Brittany Griner her like to go get her to get some favor from the people they don't need that now so if anything happens to this woman nobody can't like the government is not going to negotiate with Pakistan

to get retrieve you so they need to get her home before they don't think it's funny anymore and I don't think they think it's funny I think they're making a laughing stock she's making a laughing stock of Pakistan on TV and on the internet and shit and they're going to get sick of her

and somebody that's like anti-American is going to be like, yo, fuck this lady. I'm going to go fucking kill her. Like, that's a real concern of mine. You're on there being wild, arrogant American in this other people's country. Like, yo, give me money.

Fuck, shut. She told the dude he was sitting there. He seemed like some kind of elder. Like he had, like, respect. She's like, yo, shut up. You talk too much. I was like, yo, what is happening? You talk wild too much.

Like, OD talking. I was like, yo, you can't talk to people like this. Why is it always us? Goddance, man. We got to take it because I'm not the chicken thing we can't This is not what we're going to do This is the same thing

It's getting wild Candace Owens I don't, we're not Candace Owens, I don't, we're not going to be doing it A little genuine question Why? I don't know why this How does she end up there, bro? Like, I don't understand it.

It just was so crazy. Oh, God. In the same month, the Popeye's down Julio and then this late, that's a kid. It was too much. It was too much back-to-back, bro. Like, what's going to be? This is a New York thing.

I don't know. This is New York. New York, the Don Julio thing is New York. It is? And then this woman is New York. So we gotta have a... I told you, I told you I felt about New York at this point. I'm just, I want you nothing to do with it.

I used to be a huge fan of New York. And I'm like, I want nothing to do with New York. I don't know what's going on over there, man. I don't know. I don't know. It's too much Don. Is that what it is? Yes.

New York is starting to become like Florida at this point. They just, they just, they just, they just, y'all need to just go and just be your own thing. Yeah, we might need to, like, have them succeed. I thought that, I thought that during the pandemic when I was like, these are the kind of people that live in New York? Like, I mean, I didn't, I wasn't surprised, but I was all that, like, man, Bing Bong, y'all, I'm in the, I'm in the yard with the dogs.

I was like, yo, what are they talking to them? I was like, this shit is crazy. I was like, y'all need to just. I got to be y'all. I was like, yo, Al Roker, suck my dick. I was like, yo, why are they so obscene and just saying random things? Like it was crazy Why you mad at Al Roker?

They were just into anybody. Yeah. Yo, I'm out here with the child, collect the zone. It's 4 o'clock in the morning. You know what it is, you heard? I'm like, what is going on?

But it's a lot of dawn. A lot of dawn. Is that what is it? It's a lot of dawn? Apparently. I'm good on New York for a while. Yeah, they got to settle down a little bit. I wouldn't say it's as bad as it's Florida,

but it's their own special blend, for sure. Yeah, for sure, yeah. Anyway, we didn't hope we didn't alienate too much of people. I don't know. I feel like I want to see how people receive this. I don't know. About what? I don't know. Frye chicken and stuff? Yeah, man. I just want

everybody to just be the best version of themselves, man. I don't know. It's all jokes, man. Yeah. I'm feeling very much like a coward these days. I'm like, I don't want anybody to get any kind of ideas about anti-blackness or any, not over here.

Of course not, man. Yeah. Look, I love chicken. So I don't Hey, man, listen. Hey, this is, listen. We're going to do it. We're going to take a quick break. I would never be ashamed of my love, Fraschick.

Now, I'm not like, I'm not, I'm not obsessed with it. I'm not like running the papas and getting whatever, but I do love Frotich. Yes. So we're going to take a break. We're going to take a quick break. Okay. We're going to make it clear. I appreciate it.

I'm not anti-fraching. No, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we're going to get into some fucked-up shit, okay? We're going to take a quick break. We'll get into some fucking shit. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no. No, we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we're going to get into some fucked-up shit, okay? Stick around. We'll be back. My daughter, Fiona, just turned seven this month. It is true what they say. It just goes by in a blink, but she is getting to be a grown-up girl. I am so proud of her. and she is learning grown-up things and getting some big kid responsibilities. Right now, we are earning our way to getting a pet gecko.

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MasterCard International. Free trial for new subscribers only subscription fees starting from $5 per month unless canceled. Terms apply at www.acorns.com backslash early terms. It's officially fall and the world has officially gone completely bananas. So I am looking for comfort and coziness wherever I can find it. In Seattle this time of year, getting dressed is all about cozy layers. The weather in October is like, it's warm, it's cold, it's going to rain. Is it going to rain? It's raining. So I've been stocking up on comfy layers from my favorite brand, Quince. Now, Quince is known for their sweaters, especially their Mongolian cashmere, but they have all hits, no misses when it comes to layers. super soft cotton teas to their fashionable and functional outerwear. I just ordered the responsible

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365-day returns. Quits.com slash believe. And remember that shopping our sponsors is a great way to support the show. All right. And we are back. Fran, we live in a world currently where it seems like it's becoming illegal to talk about black history. The federal government is not acknowledging anything having to do with Black History Month. But it is Black History Month. And I remember there's this clip of Morgan Freeman from a few years ago where he was like, I don't celebrate Black History Month because we should be celebrating Black History Month. history all the time and those are the kind of sentiments that like you used to be able to get away with and I would agree with where you go no I mean I get that like why should I why should you need to tell me when to celebrate black history we could just do that all the time and then you find yourself in these times where it feels like they're actively trying to erase black history and you go this is why they desic this is how it and it takes you back to how you got here in

the first place so you got all these people talking about DEI and all these things you go Well, how about we go back to why DEI exists? Because they were making sure black people couldn't get jobs and houses. And so it had to be, it doesn't just exist for no reason. Black History Month doesn't just exist for no reason. We're taking some time out to acknowledge the contributions that black people made to this country because we are a part of American history. And we didn't feel that way because there was erasure.

We don't learn about the Tuskegee Airmen like that in school and all these things. So it's like, let's take a month where we're going to acknowledge the people. who did amazing things to help to help make this country what it is because if they had their way they would make it seem like we had no part in it yeah and we just got here we're slaves and then they then they were nice enough to stop letting us be slaves and then that was it now we're just out here whatever they think about us now and there was a lady I can't remember her name I would give her credit but I watched I saw a video of her she was doing an interview and she said she said black people are the stain on America that

they just can't rub out. And that is why they want to roll back all these things and stop talking about black history because you can't celebrate American history without explaining who that black person is in the corner of all these pictures. Yeah. We're like, yeah, we came here, we conquered,

we brought civility and all these things to this barren land and democracy and shit. He's like, well, what is all these people that's in chains over here in this corner? No, no, don't worry about that. Or like in the late 1960s. It was like, oh, man, yeah, you know, America. We went to the moon.

It was this amazing time of thoughtful rocket scientists and shit. It was like, well, why are y'all? What about all these videos of people throwing milkshakes and busting black people with the head with bricks because they were trying to eat at the lunch counter. Yeah. No, no, no. So it's like we're always there reigning on their parade of like celebrating the accomplishments of the West. Because there's this class of people that were treated like shit and continue to be treated like shit.

And so you don't get to celebrate your things that you think. think you're doing so great because you always got to sit here and annoyingly explain like oh yeah yeah those are the people we brought over here in boats and then we like abandoned them to their own devices and then some people found a way and a lot of people didn't because they were so disenfranchised and then we assassinated their leaders and stuff and then you know burn down the cities that they try to make for themselves but don't worry about that have you ever heard of the fort f150 you know we made that so um yeah i i will be celebrating black history month a little harder this year because It's, you know, you never know when they will make it cease to exist.

You know, that's a real possibility. And I'm not speaking and I'm not being hyperbolic. Like, these are the times that we live in. They might next week just be like, yo, we're going to know more Black History Month. Like, celebrate Black History on your own time. That's a personal thing. That shouldn't be required. That's where we are.

So. It's crazy. Yeah, it's very crazy. So this week we're going to be discussing a, a dark time in American history. This is the story of the Mississippi burning murders. I think that this is

a very timely story as far as when you talk about DEI and voting disenfranchisement and all the things that people have been complaining about over the last couple of years and the fears about, you know, people's voting rights being attacked and under siege

and everything. This is a real instance of that. This is an example. This is an example of it and how violent they could get. So on May 25th, 1964, members of the Council of Federated organizations or the COFO and its member organization, the Congress of Racial Equality, or Corps, the members Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner spoke to the congregation at Mount Zion Methodist Church in Longdale, Mississippi about setting up a freedom school. Schwerner implored the congregation to register to vote saying you have been slaves too long

we can help you free yourself this is 1964 these people in Mississippi they didn't have the right to vote in Mississippi like he was going to speak in the black people they were disenfranchised and they had no participation in the American process so they just got whatever scraps came if they build their own school whatever

they had no help from the government so in June of 1964 for this was the start of Freedom Summer, which was a three-month initiative to register Southern Black voters, which was led by this federation. And Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner were two people that were sent down to Mississippi

to galvanize black people to get out and register to vote. I think we did a story a while ago about a white woman who was like leading. Yeah, she was on freedom buses. and things like that. Yeah, they end up killing her. This is very similar.

This is a very similar story. Yeah, so they were trying to get black people to fight against their disenfranchisement. And you can imagine how well that went over in fucking middle of nowhere, Mississippi. Yeah. So on Sunday, June 7th, 1964, nearly 300 KKK members met near Raleigh, Mississippi.

White Knights, Imperial Wizard, Samuel Bowers, addressed his audience about what he described as a nigger communist invasion of Mississippi. Damn. That he expected to take place in a few weeks in what Corps had announced as Freedom Summer. So basically they got wind. They're like, yo, these dudes are coming down here, these commies, these communists are coming down here, trying to put all these crazy ideas in the black people's minds, and we're not going to have it. So the men, obviously.

The wizard is like the top, right? Yeah, that's like the man. Yeah, that's the man. A wizard. Yeah, that's nuts. Yeah, a wizard. An imperial wizard. Nerd.

But will, but will, but filled with hatred. Yeah. Such whimsical, magical terms. And they're like, yo, I will murder a child. Like, I'm evil. How do you get there, though? How do you become a wizard? How do you get?

Oh, man, crazy racism. You got to be like, get all your badges. Yeah. It's like a boy scout. Spit on a black boy that's looking a lollipop. Uh, go. and, like, kick an old black woman down the steps while she's getting out of church.

It's like gang rank. Yeah, you got to put it in work. You got to put it in a word. You got to get your stripes. Yeah, you get your stripes. No, go. The wizard is probably. You probably got some bodies.

Oh, yeah, the wizard? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no question. No question. Because all these men listen to you. When you speak, they're like, no, he really is about it. He's about that. He's the wizard.

So, yeah. Nobody beats the whiz. So. Are any wizards alive right now? hell yeah man they might be in congress right now so um that is true so um anyway um so these men obviously listen to bowers he's in imperial wizard so he listened to bowers and when he said this summer the enemy will launch his final push for victory in mississippi this sounds like familiar rhetoric and there must be a secondary group of members standing back from the main area of conflict armed and ready to move it must be an extremely swift extremely violent hit and run group So they were organizing and strategizing political violence. Edgar Ray Killen, who was a 39-year-old Baptist preacher and sawmill owner, went to Meridian earlier that Sunday to organize and recruit men for the job to be carried out in Neshoba County.

So he's going in, this is a preacher, going to go find a few good men that are down to go bash some black people that are trying to organize and communists. Wow. So on June 16th, 1964, the Klan in Mississippi was after Michael Schwerner, one of the guys that came down to help try to spread democracy to black people in Mississippi. Yeah. The KKK learned of his voting drive. Does KKK still exist, though?

Does it still exist? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Under the name, I'm talking about me. I mean, like, I understand it's too. No, they've rebranded. That's what I mean. No, they've rebranded, and that's the scary part.

They've rebranded into white nationalists who have that haircut, which I feel bad about, like the JJ Reddick. It used to be just a nice haircut, but I will tell you right now, if you're a person to listen to this podcast and you are a nice white man, if you got that part on the side and you swoop all that shit over and you get the fade. I'm like, no, this man is full of violent racism. With the shadow? Like the shadow beard? Oh, my God. What? Yeah.

Yeah, you, I look at that guy, I'm like, if you catch him, he might just start talking about some shit like, well, you know, black people got extra bone and they flip. I think we do have extra bone to my foot. Nah, these guys promote crazy race science about white men being superior and the brains and that's, they went from just being loud and ignorant to like, I'm going to take a sliver of science that I read one time and base it in racism to try to sound intellectual. That's the thing these days. People take 1% of some shit they learned and extrapolate into a whole philosophy about why you shouldn't exist. And so, what, KKK might not exist.

Why black people shouldn't exist. Why black people shouldn't exist? Why gay people shouldn't exist? A whole bunch of stuff. But the KKK might be in low numbers because they're all just like, well, you know, why don't we go over here? We get to have nice haircuts and wear suits

and feel smart. So we'll just become in one of these groups. like the stormfront or they got all kind of new groups now whereas I'm not in the clan I just believe that white people should be with white people and black people should be with black people but I'm not a I'm not a fucking fucking fucking dirty toothless KKK member like they look at clan members like they're dirty hmm I wonder why is that because they want to be taken serious they want to be the the elite white people so they can't be seen as like fucking bumpkins

they gotta be like no I wear a suit you know I cut my hair I'm groomed yeah but the same wild shit is in my head yeah all day I'm thinking about like how do we get black people out of here Mexican people they got to eradicate them like that's wild yeah

that's scary too it's mad scary because it's become normalized and these are people that are getting positions like as like senators and stuff like they're like they're coming for real power We're not just, like, scaring people and throwing firebombs into movie theaters.

They're like, I'm going to change the laws. So, yeah. Interesting times. Anyway, back to the Wizards. So this Baptist preacher, a man who preaches the Word of God, went out and organized a bunch of people that are like, we're going to fucking beat to hit these people with bricks and bats and stuff. So they were after one of these organizers of the core.

uh voting uh initiative in mississippi for freedom summer to get black people to get out and you know you know advocate for themselves and vote they're being intimidated into not voting so he's coming down there being like well you guys have a lot of low voter turnout why is that and they're like because if we go to the vote of the polls they will hit us with sticks and spray us with hoses now they still went out there and fought for that right they They went out there and did the damn thing. So I agree that we should not, in vain, choose to sit out in elections when people, like, straight up got murdered for the right. But also, I understand people that are like, man, even after we got the right, they terrorized my family.

And so we don't, we just never were taught to go out and vote. We never saw it as a civic duty like everybody else. Anyway, I'm rambling. So the plan was to lure core members. to Neshoba County. So they assaulted congregants and torched Mount Zion Methodist Church burning it to the ground.

And Mount Zion Methodist Church was this... Black church? It was a black church where they would meet up and the guys from court were coming and like, you know, give motivational speeches. Hey guys, like, we're going to get out and vote for these things and really like motivate people. They burn that bitch to the ground.

And on June 20th, Michael Schwerner, along with James Cheney and Andrew Goodman met at the Meridian COFO headquarters before traveling to Longdale to investigate the burning of Mount Zion Church because again they know what's going on like they know like this shit is

this is not the freedom summer we thought it was going to be like this shit is crazy so they knew already like when they heard the church burned down this was the KKK trying to send the message like don't whatever you all are doing down here get the fuck out of here so Chaney was African American

Goodman and Schwerner were both Jewish. Schwerner told C-O-F-O-Mridian to search for them if they did not get back by 4 p.m. So they're like, we're going to go check something out. If we're not back by this time, something happened. The next day, they interviewed several witnesses and went to meet with fellow activists. So at around 5 p.m. on June 21st, after drive, driving into Philadelphia, Mississippi, which, what? The three civil rights workers, Cheney, Goodman, and Schwerner, were arrested by Cecil Price, a Neshoba County deputy sheriff for allegedly speeding.

She's got them on some bullshit. Like, come on. You already know what's up. Yeah. First of all, is a black dude riding around with these two white dudes with curly hair? y'all must be from out of town so y'all must be the guys we're looking for one of these dudes got the got the got the haircut though one of the guys that's on that's in um in core yeah uh schwerner or goodman one of the two yeah okay well is that this is this predates the

what i know but i'm just saying it's just but he had the haircut he got the hair cut so um so they got pulled over for speeding at around 10 30 p.m. that same day cheney Goodman and Schwerner were released and drove off in the direction of Meridian in a blue station wagon. So I really want to, I want people to understand this. They got arrested at 5 o'clock by a police officer. He held them for five hours and then released them in the middle of the night. And then they were never seen again. All three of them.

All three of them. Yeah, yeah. So to me. Goodman is the one with the haircut, too. who is Goodman Goodman Right

So to me This is all But straight up confirmed But to me Cop pulls you Pulls them over Holds them Until they can get them in

Organized And be like Yo we're up the road Let's And then So it's like Okay bet Let them go

And then they'll intersect With the clans members Up the road Once they get released At 10 o'clock that night So he picked them up on some bullshit, held them until they could get organized outside of the police station. That's great.

And then the police is like, all right, you know what? Hey, man, never mind. Y'all weren't speeding now. And they're like, uh, okay. Yeah, get out of here. It's 10 o'clock at night. Just like, yeah, go. Get out of here.

So, yeah, so after they, after being released, they were followed by local law enforcement and others, all affiliated with the KKK. Wow. Forming a deadly caravan. The workers arrived at Pilgrim's store. where they might have been inclined to stop and use a telephone booth, but the presence of a Mississippi Highway Patrol car most likely dissuaded them so they continued south to Meridian.

So that's crazy, right? You see this convoy of trucks and shit following you, and when you think you might try to go pull over and ask for help, one of the cars in the convoy is a police officer. So you still have to weirdly, this is why I'm like, I couldn't imagine living in these times where you go, so the police is with the clan?

Yeah. What do you do with them? Because if one of them comes up to me, I'm going to hit him with a brick. You can't just hit the cop with a brick. So you've got to weirdly respect his authority, but also understand that, like, he's on their side. Right.

So that's like, who's the help? Who would you even call if you did go to the phone? You'd call the police? Police is right thing. What if they, Goodman and Schwerner, had to turn on to being white. They can't.

But what if... They're nigger lovers and excuse my language, but this is true. I know, but I'm just saying in this moment you go, you know, I mean,

you kind of like apologize or something like that. Hey, man, actually we're about to go beat the shit out of this guy. I don't know if you guys knew that, but we're about to go beat them up ourselves. I mean,

that's the best chance you got. Yeah. Maybe they're dumb enough to believe they're like, are you serious? Yeah, man, we picked them up. Like, we've been doing a long con.

went to college together he was in my wedding party he thinks he's friends with us but we're about to go beat the shit of him in the woods so don't even worry about you guys can fall back

like we got him white power and they're like okay are you Jewish never would never Jewish what no hell no man

so we're just gonna go be the show of this black dude and you guys can disperse and go do your thing that's the best chance they have but anything of like turning on white when you got this black dude

that you're friends with and y'all are from out of town I don't know what you could say really To these kind of people Once you do something like that Like affiliate and try to help black people You're not even white anymore Yeah you're a traitor

You're a traitor They might hate you more I think they do Yeah they might hate you more That's crazy man Yeah So after a quick rendezvous With Philadelphia police

Philadelphia Mississippi Philadelphia police officer Richard Willis Cecil Price Began pursuing the men in his police car So Cecil Price is the guy that pulled them over So he gets to talking with them They're like you know we're able to go kill all of them

It's like what without me? Hell no He gets in his car And goes and speeds to catch up with the fucking group of people This is crazy They all want a piece They all want to this shit is like This shit is straight up evil bro

It's straight up It's like a It's like a Some type of like weird Like metal of like honor or something Yeah Yes And the sick part, I think we've talked about this before, but it's like, and in the world we live in today, there are people that just want you to believe, like, and one day a president, like, signed a piece of paper and all these people just disappeared.

Like, one day we all just decided not to be racist anymore. Like, no, no. Yeah. That's just not true. You might not be able to legally be up front publicly racist like you used to be able to, but, like, all these people still existed. They didn't go anywhere. They had children. They raised children with these beliefs.

And they had to be covert about it and find ways to do it in secret and build their own spaces to exclude black people and brown people and whatever. But, like, they didn't just – I would love to see that day in history where everybody in the world just came together and were like, you know something, man, we're going to – racism's over. Because that's the freedom a lot of people seem to have walking around this country. Like, yeah, man, y'all still on that? y'all still out here being victim having that victim mentality man listen man when's the last time racism stops somebody from being able to do something

and I'm like I mean that's a crazy thing to say bro like that's wild that's mad gaslighting yeah you know that means they just can't tell though like they don't it's a different POVs to them

it's a perspective thing yeah I heard a great analogy somebody was like Sydney Sweeney who was like a popular Hollywood actress she's like very chesty and they were she's beautiful yeah she's very popular with men

she's probably with everybody she's talented but like men she's like everybody says like she's like a man she was like directed by a man like a man created her in their mind she like works on cars and everything she said everything is like this is a dude's idea

but anyway somebody was like Sydney Sweeney grew up in life and from an early age she noticed that men started to treat her different when she got to a certain age. Hugs started lasting a little bit longer. A guy started talking to her differently.

I mean, 12. You know, like a kid. And they went, imagine somebody telling Sidney, like, no, that guy wasn't being inappropriate with you. Or like, you don't know what you're talking about. It's like her lived experience and her body and her walking around in life. She's seen these things enough to be like, yeah, this dude's going to try to get something off me. I got to watch my background.

This guy. Because this happened to her from such an early. age. So imagine telling a black person like, no, man, you think the cops are out to get you? And they've been experiencing since from the time you've been identified 11 years old, they see you like you're 17 years old.

You know, the cop, the thing is the statistically, like most cops see black boys and girls like five years older than they are. So you've been having interactions with police officers since you're 11 years old and they're treating you hostily because they're like, no, hey man, up against the car, sit on the curb. From early age.

And then somebody comes and tells, you're like, nah, man, y'all are overreact. Y'all making stuff up. They just, when they pull you over, just comply. I'm like, you don't know how offensive that is to say because you don't know my experience with authority and how they come to me. Yeah.

You know? So I just thought that was such a good analogy because I would never, like imagine somebody telling Sidney Sweeney, like, no, man, dude was just being nice to you. He just hugged you a little long because he likes your movie. She said, I don't know exactly what that hug is. You can't tell me what I know. Right.

So, I don't know. I just thought that was like a fun, like an interesting analogy. So anyway, so yeah, so now the cop that pulled him over is trying to speed up to get involved with the posse. Price eventually caught the core station wagon heading west toward Union. Soon, he stopped them and escorted them north on Highway 19 back in the direction of Philadelphia, Mississippi. why they were on foot say again this is they still on foot

no they had a car oh they were in a car but now they're getting pulled over again by the cop who had just pulled them over right and now he's redirecting them the three men you're gonna tell me where to go

you really now you're gonna tell me which way I'm supposed to go but keep in mind it's like it's also like 10 cars kind of in the it's one of those situations where like you know you don't really have control

in the situation then it's 1960s the car is not that fast so it's like we can't like step on the gas and get so it's like 15 cars behind us we might have to just floor comply a little bit yeah I mean I but now once you floor it's like oh it's on so I think maybe in their mind they're like maybe we could try to comply our way out of this situation until we find the opening so you get pulled up but again like no bro you get pulled over by the cop I think in this moment you already know you see what's up this is not going to end well yeah you see what's up then you get pulled over by the cop I'm one black man I don't

floor that shit you're gonna go down you're gonna have fight that's how I feel as soon as I get a whiff of like no this shit something's not right

but all these cars behind us now the cops come in he's pulling us over like telling us to go somewhere else to follow him

yeah this shit fuck that put the pedal to the metal in Mississippi it was it was 1964 that's what I'll say

I mean I'm still not gonna go but it was 1964 that wasn't that long ago that wasn't that long ago That's nuts. It wasn't that long ago. So, yeah, so the cop that pulled him over earlier that day now pulls them over again,

and he brings them to a secluded location. They were quickly loaded into their station wagon and transported to old Jolly Farm, a few miles southwest of Philadelphia, where like a man-made body of water was under construction. They were shot. and then they were putting this dam and covered up with dirt using a bulldozer An autopsy of Goodman

showed fragments of red clay in his lungs and grasped and grasped fist suggesting that he was probably buried alive alongside the already dead Cheney and Schwerner now I want to read something because

these were activists bro So Andrew Goodman actually wrote a letter to his parents because he was so proud of the work that he was doing. So this was on June 21st of 1964 the day before they were murdered. He wrote a letter to his parents, Mr. and Mr. and Mrs. Goodman. He said, Dear Mom and Dad, I have arrived safely in Meridian, Mississippi. This is a wonderful town and the weather is fine. I wish you were here.

the people in this city are wonderful and our reception was very good all my love Andy so it's just like this is a young activist man trying to make his mark on the world

do some good do what he thinks is good whatever you want to say you know yeah there's plenty of you know well-meaning kids out here trying to do good work and be politically active today and I couldn't imagine one of these kids going out and trying to do good in the world

and meet a fate like this buried alive with the dirt that you're buried in in your lungs because you're trying to breathe you're so desperate to breathe that you suck in dirt

yeah after all three of them were buried Price the officer told the group well boys you've done a good job you've struck a blow

for the white man Mississippi can be proud of you you've let those agitating outsiders know where the state stands go home now and forget it. But before you go, I'm looking each of you in the eye and telling you this, the first man who talks is dead. If anybody who knows anything about this ever

opens up his mouth to any outsider about it, then the rest of us are going to kill him, just as dead as we killed these three sons of bitches tonight. Does everybody understand what I'm saying? The man who talks is dead. Dead. Notified of the disappearance, is the Department of Justice requested FBI involvement. So this is where this shit gets crazy, right? Because this shit is, keep in mind, this shit has been going on in Mississippi for decades. Yeah.

Like, black people turning up, Emmett Till, all these, like, just, you say the wrong thing, look at the wrong person, you end up to it. So. If you're black anyway. Right. But they just killed two Jewish dudes from up north.

Right? So when they called in the Department of Justice and the FBI, shit started moving. So a few hours later, Attorney General, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, not this guy we see on TV today. Robert Kennedy asked the FBI to lead the case. By late morning, the FBI had blanketed the area with agents and began intensive interviews. This is the next day. Because the two white men that got killed?

Not only were they two white men, but they were two white men who were. involved in political organizations so they had some juice but yeah I mean yes them being white was a major factor in like this being an accelerated response yeah so why was why you respond like that

what you mean because you said I said because it was white be easy yeah because also because it was political yeah well it wasn't I mean I'm sure the response would have been more than for the one black guy if they were white but they were white but they also they were white and connected is what I'm saying like they were white and they were involved in some political they had some cash okay yeah they just had they not they were like they were like super white um super white yeah they were yeah they were like

yeah these were these were like white plus so um intelligence developed by the fbi i led them to the remains of the burnt out station wagon hmm now keep you trying to burn it yeah they successfully burned it but they but they they found it they were able to identify it so no bodies were found in the car so they feared the worst about you know where are they yeah

the FBI launched a massive search for the young men aided by the National Guard through the swamps and the hollows which they dredged right and at the same time they were putting pressure

on known clan members like dudes that were like I'm not secretive I don't even wear my hood when we go riding I'm happy to be known to be a clan member so they started developing

informants who could infiltrate the Klan. The FBI also opened up a field office in Jackson, Mississippi. They went down there and laid roots. They were like, we're going to get this shit solved. Hey, we're not going anywhere. So that's like, you know, then you got the the Klan members are in the police offices and the government office. So they're like, man, we've got to get these people

out of here, bro. They're going to, we're feeling the pressure. Yeah. They're going to figure some shit out. You know, all the crazy shit we've done, horrible things? Well, we don't want them sniffing around too much. So this is crazy, right? acting on a tip So first man that speaks is dead

So he got a tip from somewhere Maybe it was an informant who infiltrated the clan But acting on a tip The bodies of the three men were eventually exhumed 14 feet below the dam Where they were buried at a local farm Wow They found

In route to finding them When they were dredging other lakes and stuff Trying to find them They found nine black people That they had nobody knew anything about I don't mean nine and one individual They just kept finding like Yeah

This person got hung and thrown in a lake Like they just they found nine bodies That weren't the people they were looking for But it took it took two white dudes Getting killed Exactly man To get to start this process And they found nine people that nobody

They just were like Yeah we wonder what happened to him That's what I'm saying man I get they all politically politically connected But fuck that Yeah It was white bro That's why she got kicked off like that

Yeah. Nine, damn. Nine bodies, just in water, dead. He's popping up. Damn. That's great. So, more than a dozen suspects, including Deputy Price, and his boss, Sheriff Rainey, were indicted and arrested. Good.

This is about as good as it is. In 1967, after the state government refused to prosecute, the United States federal government charged 18 individuals with civil rights violations. So they refused to do due process in the state. They were like, we're not, we don't have enough evidence to charge these people. But keep in mind, who's the judge? Who's the, you know what I'm saying? Like, they might all be, we're all clan members, man.

Like, I'm not prosecuting Earl. It's my man's. So we just can't find enough evidence so we're not going to prosecute. They were like, you're not going to prosecute. Okay, we're charging all of you guys with, like, misconduct. Yeah. and civil rights violations. And then on October 20th, 1967, following years of court battles,

so keep in mind, it was 1964, the summer of 1964 when they were killed. So three years later, after long court battles, seven of the 18 defendants were found guilty, including Deputy Sheriff Price, but none of them got murder charges. they all got like conspiracy charges and tampering with evidence so they nobody nobody got more than eight years that's a joke so everybody so seven seven of 18 and even those seven got like three years here five years eight years yeah slap on the rest one major conspirator Edgar ray killin the the Baptist preacher

who organized a bunch of guys went free after a lone juror couldn't bring herself to convict a Baptist preacher. Yeah. And this is the thing about religion, right? So this man is objectively evil. He organized a bunch of people to go out and murder people. But then he still gets to go up there and go, well, you know, I'm just a servant of the Lord and I didn't do this. And a one woman fell for that and was like, well, I can't.

If I put a preacher in jail, I'm going to go to hell. And I cannot convict him. That's a sin to be mean to preachers. And so it was a hung jury or whatever. Three men were killed horribly. They were shot and buried a lot. You know, this shit was terrible. She was like, no, but he's a preacher.

So I guess that's like a hung jury. One person didn't vote. So, you know, I'm not a. That's why he became a preacher. So we can get along. So you can have anonymity. So you get blanket immunity for killing people? Yeah.

Possibly. So outrage over the activist murder helped gain passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. So there you go. And I guess they had the right to vote, but maybe the Voting Rights Act assured them some protections. You know, I'm not going to say you're not like an expert. You know, we went to Hartley University, so I hardly know how to do anything in the ground. I hardly know how to read. I hardly know how to speak.

So I'm not going to pretend like I understand. and every aspect of the Voting Rights Act. But according to this, they were down there for the summer of freedom to get people to vote. So clearly you could vote, but maybe the Voting Rights Act gave you some protections. Like, they assured that you can't disenfranchise people from voting. Yeah. So I don't think it gave them the right to vote necessarily, but it protected their right to vote, I think. Could be wrong.

Valedictorian of Hartley University. Fran just went there, you know, took some summer classes, a couple of credits. I'm valedictorian I got my BS from Harley You graduated? Yeah, I graduated with honors I got my BS That's that boy stop

41 years after the murders took place Edgar Ray Killen, the preacher Was charged by the state of Mississippi For his part in the crimes This was due heavily in part by a journalist Who I can't remember his name right now I'm really sorry But there was this journalist in the 1980s

This white guy Who found out about this story and just talked about it for 20 years straight. Every chance he got, he worked for like a local newspaper. And he kept talking about it until it started getting national attention. Like, wait a minute, what happened? So this guy, he organized this whole thing. And then these people got killed and he's free.

And him being persistent and never letting people forget about it, they eventually, in like the 19, like early 2000s or whatever, they arrested this old man. This footage of him being. arrested. He's old as fuck, like, but they were like, no, you're going to see justice, man. Right? So, um, on January 6, 2005, Neshoba County granted a grand jury indicted him on three counts of murder.

When the Mississippi Attorney General prosecuted the case, it was the first time the state had acted against the perpetrators of the murders. On June 21st, 2005, a jury convicted Killen, this is a crazy name. Edgar Ray Killing, they convicted Killing on three counts of manslaughter. He was described as the man who planned and directed the killing of three men. Killing, who was then 80 years old, was sentenced to three consecutive terms of 20 years in prison. And let me tell you something. This is something that's really amazing.

So Andrew Goodman actually came from a long line of activists. Like his family was really... Oh, shit. I mean, they were Jewish and the... I mean, you know, they knew what it was like to be persecuted. Yeah. So they were activists and stuff too. And his mom was still alive when they convicted this man in 2005 in his 80s.

She came to the trial. And she went up on that stand and she said, I'm anti-capital punishment. I'm just here because I want my son to get justice. I think he should be arrested. And I just want people to know my son was a good person. He didn't do anything. I'm not here to be vindictive. She didn't forgive him or anything.

But she was just there to say, I'm not here to say, kill him. him, fry him. I'm anti that. I don't believe in capital punishment. I'm here to say my son Andrew Goodman was a good man. He didn't do anything wrong. He was killed for no reason. And I hope this guy spends the rest of his life in prison, but I do not want him to be murdered. Yeah. I do not want him to be killed in state sanctioned violence. I do not, I do not agree with that. That is wrong. That's how about she was. She was like, I am, I am, I am a, I'm an activist. And I believe in people's right to be alive. I don't believe in the state being able to just unilaterally kill people, even the man that killed my son. Yeah.

So this 80-year-old man was, you know, sentenced to 20 years in prison. He appealed in 2007, stating that no jury of his peers would have convicted him in 1964 based on evidence presented. That is the most, that, that right there, that is the America that people want to be great again. He's like, back, like, think about what he just said. He appealed because he's like, if it was 19. You think you could get a bunch of white people to convict me on this? It would never happen. This is not fair.

What happened to the America I know? So his appeal was rejected by the Supreme Court of Mississippi. And on June 20th, 2016, keep in mind, June 21st, 1964 is the year that those three men were killed. On June 20th, 2016, Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood and Vanita Gupta, top prosecutor for the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, said the investigation had ended but would be taken up again if new information was received. Killian died in prison in January of 2018. Now, them coming out and saying that is basically like, we're done because this happened

in 1964. The man that they prosecuted in 2005 was 80 years old. What do you mean if new evidence is received? all of these people are dead or elderly anybody who was driving the trucks that night following them if they're alive they're demented or old or senile like so the idea he had prosecuted winning in 05 he was found guilty and he was convicted in 2007

no I'm sorry he was convicted in 2005 yes oh so he went on to live for another like 10 years yeah like another 10 years me died he was like 92 years old bro that evil lingers sometimes like it's just like you can't it's hard to kill evil like that is that the secret he's a wizard oh yeah yeah you forgot yeah yeah I thought he's a preacher well he could be both you know who says one who says you can't be one without the other that's true that's true he might have been a wizard preacher that's how he got extra

the wizard the wizard preacher the wizard preacher not being evil being evil racism is the is the key of living oh yeah it's like it's like it's like it's like natural greens flowing through your system that evil like vile vehement racism it's like it's like it's like an elixir. Yeah. Yeah. For some. I wonder if Betty White was racist because she hung on for a long time.

She didn't seem racist, but I don't know her behind closed doors, but she was around for a long time. That's true. Yeah, she was holding on. Thank you for being a friend. Shout to Betty White, man. Unless she was racist. Unless she was racist. There's no evidence of.

So shout out to her. Avoid all states, avoid all city states. Yeah, I don't want to listen. cities that's not in the right state I'm named after major cities in other states yeah I don't want to live in I don't want to go to any I don't want to go to Los Angeles Indiana I don't want to go to any of this shit

I'm definitely not going any place like that it's like a little town is just mad I don't know man somebody needs to make a TV show that or something that's so it's crazy shit a travel channel show travel channel show yeah Paris Texas and fucking what is this Philadelphia Mississippi like this is not like Philadelphia

at all at all you get down there like How much the opposite? Like, this shit is not brotherly love at. Oh, they hate brothers down here. So, yeah, so that was the Mississippi Burning Stories, man. Rest and peace, those people, man. A, happy Black History Month. Black history is American history.

These are the kind of stories. Obviously, I want to celebrate George Washington Carver and Ida B. Wells and all these incredible people. But stories like this speak to the journey of just trying to get basic human rights for black people in this country. Like, there was a lot of bloodshed and violence to even get to. this point that we're at, so to see people rolling back those accomplishments and trying to strip them away is very disheartening because when you know how many people died and fought and got bit by dogs and got their heads split open with batons to get what the things are

that are on the books today, it really is disheartening. Hey, man, it's all coming to light, man. Yeah. So, but yeah, so that was the Mississippi burning murder stories. I think stories like this are important. I think that American history and black history are intertwined. You cannot separate them from each other because you don't like how it makes us look or whatever. That's not an option.

If you're going to tell the story, you've got to tell the whole story. And as long as there are people here that know the whole story, you've got to keep it going because they will do the best that they can to erase it. They will tell you, oh, yeah, well, you know, we brought some people over here from Africa and we wanted to take them out of the crazy conditions they were living over there. with them over here. We gave them religion and they worked and, you know, they built things for America, but we fed them and things like that. And then one day we decided to stop doing that and then just let them become citizens. If we do not fight for the right to preserve history, the story of slavery in America in 100 years will be, we came over here willingly and it was a great relationship and we were all friends. But the,

the plantation owner was kind of more like a boss, like a CEO, and they were just workers. They will let that be the story because they don't want people to feel bad. They would rather not feel bad than tell the truth. And so if you have an opportunity to tell the truth or learn the truth, you have to do that. It is more important than ever. Anyway, Fran, watching anything good lately,

hate that get so heavy, but, you know, we start off about the chicken and everything. So this is what we do here, you know. We go all the different ranges of emotions. But now let's get to Recommendations Corner. Oh, I started watching. I did start watching Paradise. Yes, or as we call it in Baltimore, Paradise. Yeah.

Thoughts? It's good, man. Great show. Do you watch episode four? Four. No, I didn't know. It's the most recent ones. It's the most recent ones.

The newest one came up this week. No, no, I'm still. I had to go. I had to rewind three. So. You had to rewind three? Yeah Four

Banger The show's fantastic I just I just don't want to make sure I'm missing anything So I'm like Yeah well that's good The show hasn't let up though

Episode 4 also another great one The show has not let up I love it Sterling K. Brown is great James Marsden The president He's great He's likable

Sinatra Sinatra bro My question is about her She's Elon Musk What is she? She's a self-made billionaire. Self-made billionaire. Who's...

Who made this city. No, but who... She's a... Is she part of like some type of government or something? No, she represents the... Because this is her creation. Right. So she's just like...

So James Marsden is just like a mascot. Because he was the president. You know, I don't want to spoil of people. Okay. So they're comfortable with you. She's the real leader She's like the Illuminati Got you got you got you

Except she likes to be seen She's behind the scene He asked the president answers to her Right So Sinatra's like the real She's the real deal Okay got you got she's really calling the shots Yeah yeah

She's great too Yeah She's like annoying She's kind of like Marty Bird from Ozark Like neurotic And whatever But gets shit done

So, yeah, Paradise is really, really good. Great. I also, not to get, this isn't for everybody, you know, if you like animation and trippy, sci-fi, conspiratorial. Animation. Yeah, there's this new show that just came out called Common Side Effects. I never heard anybody say it like that. Well, it's not an anime. It is an anime, kind of.

It's an anime. I just meant animation, like cartoons. If you like cartoons. Got you. If you like cartoons, but it's high quality, it's unique style. It's called Common Side Effects. It's this new show on Adult Swim, but you can watch it on Max. It's about this guy who found a mushroom in the jungle that can cure anything.

Broken bones, death, sickness, and as a result, he's trying to give this to the world, but Big Pharma is trying to kill him because they're like, if he, if he, if he, gives this to the world then people won't need our drugs yeah so they're actively trying to stop him from giving a thing that will cure anything and it's like funny

it's a comedy but it's but it's deep though and it's trippy so common side effects in paradise those are two things I've been really digesting recently and I've really been enjoying so you just been in paradise that's the strong one right now is the the main one yeah I got a

I can't be jumping around man Yeah, well, I can. Yeah. Also, I will say this, man, we haven't had any of these opportunities really, at least on the podcast, I wanted to check in about fatherhood. Yeah. Because every now and then I have these, like, I just catch myself crying. Okay. And I had one recently.

It was like in a nice way. It's like a good, it's like a positive thing. But I know that you will understand. Maybe you'll understand my thought. You might never have had it in this way. I don't know, but we'll see, right? So I was holding Oliver, and I was, he was falling asleep, and I was just sitting there. And then I was like, I got upset because I was like, he's never going to meet this kid that I've fallen so much in love with.

So, like, one day he'll be three, and this baby will be gone. Like, and he doesn't know this baby. He won't know this baby. So I won't be able to even explain. to him how fun this baby is that I'm hanging out with right now. Yeah. He's so fun and smiling and everything. And someday that'll be some kid that I tell my son about that I used to hang out with

and was so fun that he could fit my arm, it's little, you know, and even that, that little basket is like, it used to be closer to me. And now that's expanding, like, how much arm I need to hold him. Yeah. But, yeah, someday he'll ask about what it was like when he was a baby. and that's like, that's like a different person. Yeah. He'll be a different person.

Like, so, like, Max right now is like Max now isn't baby Max. Right. And he doesn't know who the hell that is. Yeah. And then someday Max will be like 11 and he won't remember being four. Yeah. So even the Max you're hanging out with now, he'll never know that. It's like a different kid.

Yeah. So you know all these different kids and they become different people and then you, then one day you don't get to see him anymore. Like one day, four-year-old Max, that's fun and shooting basketball he'll be 13 and it's like those are two different people and you just have to mourn that four-year-old kid yeah and I just was like shedding tears while I was holding my son because I was like you I don't he'll be gone someday like this baby won't be here he won't be a baby anymore yeah so that's when you're going to get that's when

you're going to have another that's what that what they say I don't know I wasn't crying that heart. You actually snap me out of whatever thing I was having right now because it's not that. No, I mean, I get that, man. That's why pictures and videos are huge, man. You got to make sure you have those because, like, we'll be like, we would just be chilling in the house and then like, I got like a widget on my phone where like, you know, it had changed, the pictures had changed and then something will pop up a random

picture and I don't know, oh shit, that was when he was two, one, then kind of show him and then there's times when you go through videos on your phone. And then you go, oh, remember this? And you kind of watch it. And, you know, that's before this, before they can talk and all kinds of shit. But, like, yeah, man, taking videos and pictures, man, you don't, because that's, it's a memory, man. Because, like, they grow. And that's pretty much all you have at that point.

Because I told you, man, like, when he was born and then now, like, that doesn't, that told you, they, they look totally different. That does not look like the same. Just visually, it doesn't look the same person. But, yeah, man, you got to make sure you. Kind of find a way to hold on to those memories, man. But I get that. The only prompt, the time I had when, and this is kind of different from what you're talking about, I had a time when I think, I don't think I did this with Max.

I think I did it with Sophie when she was a, not a, I think she maybe was like one or something like that. Where like there was times where I woke up just in tears. Like, Paul and not crying because I'm like, because I had this, I had this thought of like, Like, I don't know if it was a dream or nightmare. I don't, I don't remember what it was. But it was a time I was going through where I was like, I have to make sure I'm, I have to do my best and kind of control what I control to make sure I'm here. Because if I'm not here, it was just like, I don't even know why I was going through that at the moment. And it was just like, I can't, I can't, I can't, because like, what are they, what is she supposed to do with it when I'm not here?

Or like her and her mom, like, I was like, and I was just waking up and just. crying. I'm like what the like what the fuck? I mean I get why I was doing it but like me waking up out of a sleep and just being like I got to go to the other room and kind of get myself together. Yeah. Like that was I don't even know. I never even like looked up why that was happening or like if it has anybody else ever went through that but it was just like it was it was I guess because Sophie was like my first child and she was a baby and something. I don't know what I don't know what it was but I can't explain it but that shit was I went through that for maybe like a couple weeks, and I kind of got past it, but that, those couple weeks was, it was, I don't know what

was happening, but it was just like, I cannot, I can't go. I just, I don't know why. I just don't know why I was having that thought, but I was like, I cannot leave this child and without a father. I don't know why I was going through it, but it was so weird, and I was like, and I know, I just never talked about it because I never heard anybody else bring up something like that before, so it was just, yeah. No, I get, I get it, man. Like, yeah, I don't, maybe, we're not in the right groups or something like that but I don't really hear

about how emotional this shit makes you and I've experienced it like I mean I knew it was like an emotional experience but I mean like literally the week

that he was born that Billy Elish song Birds of a Feather yeah which I heard that song a thousand times but I once he was born

I just heard it you hear it yeah different yeah you really hear it about like like

one day I'm not gonna be here Yeah. And so I want to enjoy every minute I can enjoy. Yeah. And then I don't even want to come to terms with that idea. Right. Right.

Right. One day I'm just going to be gone. Yeah. And you just got to figure that out. Yeah. I don't want that to happen. Right. And that's like, yeah, and that will like consume you.

Yeah, for sure. You know? All that stuff when people are like, yeah, I sold my bike or like, I get all that shit now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't do. I used to be a bungee jumper. I quit.

Yeah. My kid, I'd stop doing that. I start riding motorcycles and shit. Yeah, he's like, this is dumb. My day's that motorcycle, he was like, yeah, I kind of. He got an accident too, but he was just like, yeah, I kind of get, I had to, I had to let that go. I can't, yeah. It's not even about being young.

It's just like, you've got to become more responsible. You can't just be out here doing crazy shit. Yeah. Living like, you have no responsibilities now. Like, no, that's just, that's, that's, that's just not a thing. Yeah, it's like, we all got to go. But if you are, have a family that you're a. responsible for and you're actively doing things

that's like deadly? Yeah, yeah. I don't see how you do that because the thoughts that I have in my head all the time I'm like, well, you know, I'm gonna how I drive, everything. It changed everything about me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's not even, yeah, but it's not even about that even. It's like, just little shit. It's like, I don't play basketball like as much because I'm like, if I blow a knee, it's a, it's a rap. I got to feed my family. I got to, like, it's a,

I can't be out here jumping around going crazy no more, bro. You just can't play basketball every now and then, sure, but like, how we used to, like, that's not a thing anymore. I can't, if I blow a knee out, bro, I'm, I can't. My job allows me walking. If I can't walk, I can't fucking work. My kids don't eat. Look at how they're looking.

I used to be 19 years old, bro, not a caring in the world. Now I'm like, well, you know, I can't get sick right now. I can't. Let me not just go into this crowd of people because if I get sick, then I can't go to work and my son is going to start. I go to the extreme. extreme it might not be that extreme but like you just can't you can't help it yeah really can't i'm constantly thinking about it and then i'm constantly like on the brink of tears all the time

yeah yeah yeah yeah they're happy tears but it's also sad tears at the same it's just hard it's yeah it's just like yeah it's it's kind of it's kind of um it's good to kind of have somebody else to have those comments because like i have other friends who have kids but i don't talk to them as much so it's like it's kind of cool to have somebody else to talk to about things like this who like who was kind of like starting from the beginning yeah So it was like, and then you bring up certain things. And like, oh, yeah, I did. I kind of, I was, okay, I wasn't only one having those type of feelings or going

through that thing at the time or whatever. So, like, yeah. It's always good to hear of shit like that. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that's when to check in. We should do that more often. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I was just having that thought. And I was like, man, shit is, why am I crying, bro? I'm trying to look at, I just got a little YouTube, lullaby music on. Yeah. Just fed him a bottle, put them down. Yeah. Because, man, it was like, you look at that. Snoring, head was falling back.

Yeah, man. you see him you go like bro I'm I've created this person this beautiful human being right here who does who does no harm like it's just it's crazy bro like man it's how they get older and they start breaking shit and all kinds of stuff and then I kind of stuff kind of you know it fades away a little bit and that's what I'm saying I'm like I would love for you to have met if you could have met the kid that I was holding some time ago you out here scribbling crayons and shit on the wall yeah this baby would never do that that. Now look at you out here, Wilden.

You got to meet him. He would teach you a lot of stuff about being calm. Sophie, I don't know who that was. When she, my first born, man, when she was a little girl, and then she was just as sweet and just to come home and she run through the door now, and she's like, hey, that. I get it. It's not, it's not. I don't take it personal, but I go, like, all right. I can't hug none, damn. You're like, you're like, baby Sophia would never let me just come in this door unhugged used to be like

the president walked in the room when I was Hey got any food Can I give this I just Damn I just got home Can I sit down? Can I get a hey?

Yeah When they grew up Rose When they grew up bro's different So just take it all in Yeah He's don't moving around boy And talking and shit

I'm help man but yeah anyway uh this has been another episode of affirmative murder the equal opportunity true crime comedy podcast one more folks we're going to london crime con yeah uh in june yeah code affirmative if you're going to be there use it or lose it i don't know what that means that doesn't mean anything um but we'll see you next week guys bye doises