Nobody Should Believe Me - S02 Ep10: Everything Everything Everything

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

In the finale of Season 2, we finally hear from the person at the center of our story: Alyssa Waybourn. Despite the immense challenges she has faced, Alyssa shines as a beacon of intelligence, strength, and resilience. Her story is a testament to the capacity of the human spirit to overcome even the darkest of circumstances. During a visit to Fort Worth, we meet Alyssa: a smart, happy, athletic teenager who is starting her new after-school job later that day. Alyssa has found solace and normalcy after enduring so much at such a young age. Her determination to move forward and create a brighter future is truly inspiring. Alyssa shares her memories of the abuse she endured, the experience of testifying against her biological mother, and the profound impact it had on her life. Despite the pain, she remains steadfast in her commitment to fight for those who are voiceless, even testifying before the Texas State Legislature in support of a bill that bears her name.  Alyssa opens up about her hopes and dreams for the future, revealing the strength and resilience she has found in her family. We also get an update on Brittany as Andrea shares some final thoughts for the season.  *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

True Story Media. or anyone you know is a victim or survivor of medical child abuse, please go to munchausensupport.com to connect with professionals who can help. If you'd like to support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or join me on Patreon to listen to exclusive bonus content and get all episodes early and ad-free. And as of right now, all of season two is available there to binge. People believe their eyes. That's something that actually is so central to this whole issue and to people that experience this, is that we do believe the people that we love when they're telling us something. I'm Andrea Dunlop, and this is Nobody Should Believe Me. share is that the wait for my new book, The Mother Next Door, is almost over. It is coming at you on

February 4th from St. Martin's Press. So soon! I co-authored this book with friend and beloved contributor of this show, Detective Mike Weber, about three of the most impactful cases of his career. Even if you are one of the OG-est of OG listeners to this show, I promise you are going to learn so many new and shocking details about the three cases we cover. We just go into so much more depth on these stories. And you're also going to learn a ton about Mike's story. Now, I know y'all love Detective Mike because he gets his very own fan mail here at Nobody Should Believe Me. And if you've ever wondered, how did Mike become the detective when it came to Munchausen by proxy cases, you are going to learn all about his origin story in this book.

And I know we've got many audiobook listeners out there, so I'm very excited to share with you the audiobook is read by me, Andrea Dunlop, your humble narrator of this very show. I really loved getting to read this book, and I'm so excited to share this with you. If you are able to pre-order the book, doing so will really help us out. It will signal to our publisher that there is excitement about the book and it will also give us a shot at that all important bestseller list. And of course, if that's simply not in the budget right now, we get it. Books are not cheap. Library sales are also extremely important for books. So putting in a request at your local library is another way that you can help. So you can pre-order the book right now in all formats at the link in our show notes. And if you are in Seattle or Fort Worth, Mike and I are doing live events the week of launch, which you can also find more information about at the link

in our show notes. These events will be free to attend, but please do RSVP so that we can plan accordingly. See you out there. This episode is brought to you by Samsung Galaxy. Ever captured a great night video only for it to be ruined by that one noisy talker? With Audio Erase

on the new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, you can reduce or remove unwanted noise and relive your favorite moments without the distractions. And that's not all. New Galaxy AI features like NowBrief will give you personalized insights based on your day schedule so that you're prepared no matter what.

Pre-order the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra now at Samsung.com. We've talked a lot about Alyssa Weyburn this season, and now I want you to meet her. How are you? I'm good. This is Alyssa. Hi, Alyssa. Okay, give you a hug. So nice to meet you. Hi, Laura.

Hi. So nice to meet you. She and her mom, Laura, met up with us during a trip to Fort Worth. Interviewing a teenager was definitely something new for me, but Alyssa made it really easy. She instantly lit up the room with just all of this cheerful energy. I was really honored that the Weyburns had put enough trust in me to talk to their daughter. It's hard enough to talk about traumatic things you've been through when you're an adult, but for a kid, it's just a huge ask. And so I brought a little gift with me to break the ice. And then Alyssa, your mom told me that you like to doodle, so I brought these for you.

These are nice pens. Those are cool. Are they like gel pens? Yeah, like they're felt, felt like on the top, but they also look like gel. Nice. Cool. We were here to talk about some really difficult things, but it was also important to me to just get a sense of who Alyssa is now. And that is a bright, resilient young woman who was starting her very first job later that day. My older brothers, Caleb and Lucas, they work at Cece's and I'm going to work today.

You're going to work today? Yeah. Oh, okay. Is this your first day at the first job? Okay. What do they do at Cece's? It's a pizza and like salad bar sort of thing. Okay.

There's sometimes salad. What are you going to be doing as he sees? I could be busing and I could be washing dishes. Okay. I could be doing one of those, but I really enjoy cooking. I want to cook. Do you think you want to do that maybe as a career, be a chef? Maybe.

I mean, it's come up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially whenever I was little and I was cooking with my gram. And I would just be like, hey, gram, we should make a restaurant called Graham's Bakery or something like that. And I would make up a pretend restaurant thing in the living room of her house. And she would be the customer and she would walk by and I would

be like, hey, would you like some banana muffins? This moment is really sweet. Alyssa is laughing and this is clearly a really happy memory. And it's also poignant because as we remember from this case, Alyssa was being starved by Brittany and here she is fantasizing about feeding other people. It really reminds me also just this sort of ordinary story with her grandmother that all these people who intervened didn't just save her life, they gave her back her childhood. Alyssa is now a happy, healthy teenager who has lots of interests and friends. She enjoys singing, and she also enjoys playing basketball. I've been playing that like the actual sport team basketball

since I was in second grade. And yeah, it's just been fun. And it's easier like to reconnect, I guess, sometimes. Like, and whenever we found out I could do basketball, then we just did it. It was so fun. And then I just made new friends and a whole team of friends. And more than a team, actually, because their friends had friends.

And then like a whole new community. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just like, I guess for some people, sports are a way to connect. And that's one of my ways, too. I asked Alyssa what she wants people to know about her. I guess the one thing I would want people to know is that you can overcome anything. I mean, it's been tough because everything, everything, everything, I guess it's just like hard to think about like

what should you do with your life and sometimes and sometimes it's just hard to feel the right feelings sometimes, you know, and sometimes you don't know what to do, what is right or what is wrong and it's just hard and you can overcome those feelings and you can overcome anything. You can also overcome what people think of you or any of that because it doesn't matter what they think, it matters what you think. That's really good advice for everyone, I think. What are some of the things that have helped you

overcome what you've been through? Because you are really an inspiration and so I'd love to know kind of what are some of those things that's helped you be the way that you are and has helped you move forward? I think that one of the things it would be like all the boys, everyone with my dad, with my brothers, with my classmates, with everyone, it's just hard to figure out how's the best ways to work with them I guess and that's also how I also learned to work with people better like it's best to learn how they work how they think and then put that plan into action to make it work I guess another thing would be

me standing out for like myself me being independent, I guess, sometimes. It's just sometimes I think I'm right and sometimes I am. But sometimes I'm not. And it's hard because sometimes I'm not and whenever I'm not, I get very frustrated. And then I just realized that like my parents or anyone, anyone in my family just can help me or they know what's right. So they know what I can do or whatever. Alyssa is healthy now, but this abuse left some permanent scars. And we talked about that too. People always think that I'm like way younger than I am because of how Brittany, she didn't nurture me properly and like didn't give me enough food and stuff like that. So I didn't grow right

and I wasn't tall or average height. But then whenever I started to actually reach going into like first grade or any kinds of school, I would not be called out on. But I would just be like, everyone would ask me, how old are you? How tall are you? What's your name? And stuff like that. They would always just be like, are you super smart or something like that? Oh, did they think you were skipping grades? Yeah.

I was like, OK, no, no no but it's just size it doesn't matter what size you are and it's just hard for me to overcome that sometimes most of the time I just try to ignore it sometimes I can't and sometimes it's just hard to and I just try to put it aside and I don't know it's just the way people are and like some people will ask why are you so sure or something like that and I'm like I'll tell you later or something like that and it's just awkward sometimes especially if like I'm in a whole crowd and I'm like uh leave me alone please. What my family says all the time is

if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all. That's a really good policy. You and your mom seem so close. I can just watching the two of you together I'm like this is the relationship that I want with my daughter. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. Alyssa is so happy and sweet and Sometimes. of it she remembered? I still remember sometimes like sometimes vividly sometimes my parents just told me and I was like oh yeah I kind of remember that or something like that but I guess like

sometimes I try to just push them away because some of them are just dark I don't know just dark memories I guess. What are some of the things that have helped you sort of process that? I'm just kind of curious to know like how that, yeah, like how you kind of reconcile those things. Like sometimes I would just be like asking God, why did he do this to me? Why did he like pick me? And sometimes I would think I'm the only one that ever went through it. And then my mom would be like, no, you're not. There are plenty who have done that. I mean, not done that, been through it. And it's just hard to think that other people have been through it. And I just hope that no one else has to go through it. It's just tremendously terrible. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you said that actually, because that's something that

everyone we've talked to has said to us, that they felt like they were the only one. And for me, I, you know, I'm coming at it from a different vantage point. In my case, it's my sister. But I felt like I was the only person that had ever, you know, it's not a lot of people have big, bad things that happen to them. Right. And a lot of people go through trauma. But at least if you're going through a kind of trauma that people can relate to and that they have some kind of context for, you don't have to sort of explain the whole thing. I always have found that really hard, right? That people don't have a framework, right? If you have someone in your family dies of cancer or they, you know, get in a car accident, those are horrible,

traumatic things. But if you tell just someone that you just met about that, they're going to understand what you're talking about. And with this, I feel like people just are in sort of such disbelief and it can make you feel really lonely and really isolated, right? The thing is, I try not to isolate myself because, like, it's just, I don't know. I just like to talk to people about other things than that sometimes I'll just like they'll ask me so you're adopted right or something like that and I would say oh yeah I was adopted but I mean I have eight brothers okay Don't mess with me.

Even as a teenager, Alyssa is a force to be reckoned with, and she's working to help other kids who've gone through what she's gone through. She told us about a recent trip to the Texas state legislature. We were there to, like, make a law so that all the people who went through stuff like me or like you or any of that, the parents or whoever was lying would have to go to jail. And I was excited at the time so that it would happen, but it hasn't happened yet. And no one, no one, I know people understand it, but people sometimes just don't. They can't. They don't realize that it's wrong and it happens.

So, yeah. Like, I would try to tell everyone that I knew about it. I'd just be like, oh, yeah, I'm making a lot. Vote for it or something like that not vote for it she's on the campaign yeah yes yeah um but I would just be like I'm making a lot just please know that this is real this happens and I would be like asking them to pray for me or something like that and they would. And I'm glad that, like, it's gotten through here.

And we've went to the court two times already. And they haven't done anything about it. So I hope that third time maybe. What did you tell those lawmakers when you were in front of them? I told them what my, like what my story was, what my case was. And then I would sit down and like, what my name and any of that.

Then my mom or dad would speak. And then it was just like the first time my mom would ask questions and whenever my mom asked questions, I would answer them and try to answer them right. But then the second time I did it on all by myself and I was about to cry because I prepared my speech and then like I was looking down and then at it and I felt like I was like I should have been looking at the people. Then it's all crazy. I was also emotional because of all that. We actually have a clip of Alyssa making that speech in front of the Texas state legislature.

I think it's so important and it's so brave that Alyssa is willing to be a public face of this abuse. One of the struggles in moving this issue forward is that the offenders in these cases often look like very sympathetic, crying mothers. But people need to understand who is really getting hurt in these situations. They need to see the victims. If you could state your name. Okay. My name is Alyssa Weyburn and I am for this law. And you represent yourself?

Yes. Health isn't something you can lie about to anyone. Why should we support abuse? We shouldn't. It's something that we shouldn't support. Alyssa's law will make it where if a parent is found lying about the child's health, then they will be prosecuted. I know what it's like to be lied about my health. I could have died, but I'm not looking about what my past was. I'm looking about my future of this law. Brittany, my biological mother, abused me for three years. And we're trying to make this law where kids, children won't have to be abused for years.

I remember being told to act like I was sick or unhealthy. And then my doctor, he realized whenever Brittany wasn't in the room, I would be fine. I wouldn't act bad or sick. And why shouldn't we save people? Why shouldn't we save kids? This law will make it where we can save kids. The lawmakers in the courthouse were clearly impressed and moved by Alyssa's testimony. You did a very fine job testifying.

You're so courageous in speaking up for all those who have been what you have been through. I hope this is the last time that you have to come back up here to testify because I hope we can get this across the finish line. I want you to know that your future is so bright. Thank you. I have no doubt that if you want to, you would have a seat up here one day. So your future is only limited by yourself. And I see that you have no limitations. So thank you so much for being here to share your real experiences because you are helping so many people that don't have a voice.

Alyssa's mother, Laura Weyburn, also testified that day. She was understandably choked up hearing her daughter talk. Well, that was amazing. Yes. I'm so proud of that little girl. I'm Laura Webern. I am Alyssa's mother. Sometimes I have to say adoptive, but I am her mother. I am for the bill. I was a CPS investigator years and years ago before I was a mother. Laura went on to give very moving testimony about her experience both as a mother and someone who is familiar with the ins and outs of CPS.

I wanted to share an update about this bill. This spring, Alyssa's bill finally made it out of committee on its third try, only to, very disappointingly, die on the floor of the state house. But no one is giving up. In addition to the Weyburns and Mike Weber, some other familiar voices from season one have testified in support of the bill, including George Honeycutt and Doug Welch. Her support of this bill, however, was not the only time that Alyssa has testified in court. I also went to court to put Brittany in jail. And I remember it pretty vividly about how, like, I didn't really remember her. I didn't really know her. Whenever she was sitting there, I didn't really remember her I didn't really know her whenever she

was sitting there I didn't even know that was her I was happy that I didn't know that but I was also I was seven at the time and I was like trembling in my seat and I was like right in the box up there all alone and the judge was asking me questions and I was like yep that happened I remember that and my parents weren't allowed to be in there so one of my teachers that was my favorite teacher in the world she went there and some of my other family members did too and whenever I came out I was like so shook. And then my parents went in and like a few minutes later and I was like, wait, I did that. Wow.

I'm amazing. We all agree. Yes. You are amazing. Thank you. You are amazing. You are too. Thank you.

You're so sweet. What's up, Spotify? This is Javi. I remember this one time we were on tour. We didn't have any guitar picks, and we didn't have time to go to the store, so we placed an order on Prime, and it got there the next day, ready for the show.

Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Playoff football is here with BetMGM, and as an official sportsbook partner of the NFL, It's on Prime. I want to tell you about a show I love, Truer Crime from Cilicia Stanton. My favorite true crime shows are the ones where I feel like the creator has a real stake in what they're talking about. And this is definitely the case with Cilicia, who got interested in covering crime because, like many of us in this genre, she experienced it. In each episode of the show, Cilicia brings a personal, deeply insightful

lens to the crime that she covers, whether it's a famous case like the Manson murders or Jonestown, or a lesser known case that needs to be heard, like the story of a modern lynching. She covers these stories with a fresh and thoughtful lens, helping listeners understand not just the case itself, but why it matters to our understanding of the world. Her long-awaited second season is airing now, and the first season is ready to binge. So go check out True or Crime with Cilicia Stanton wherever you get your podcasts. As we discussed on a previous episode, Brittany took a plea deal and she went to prison for five years. She served every day of that five-year sentence.

She had been released by the time we did this interview, and I wondered if Alyssa had had any contact with her since she'd been out. I used to whenever I was little, and I had to see her like every Sunday or Saturday or something like that. And one day I was like, I don't want to do it anymore. Stop. I don't want to do it. And I was very little and my parents were like, I know, I know. So I had to see her. And then I also had to see Chris, Brittany's boyfriend. And I remember my dad was like very cautious around him because Chris, he said he was going to pick me up and be my dad, but he never did. He never came. He never did anything to help me. And it's just hard to think that he lied. And he said that he would

sign the thing for me to get adopted. And he never did that. So we literally had to get it signed by the judge. And yeah, it was just very stressful sometimes. And I remember this one time where me and my mom called him and we had an RV. So we went out to the RV so that we wouldn't get interrupted and we called him and I was like I don't want to talk to him talk to him for me please because I don't want to I don't know I I just felt sometimes just a little bit scared of him I guess well you didn't really have a relationship with him yeah right except like we would once a month or so I don't know like once a year we would see each other something like that and go to a mall or I don't know it's we didn't have a relationship I just I just don't didn't want to I guess even though I was little I

was just like no yeah yeah yeah again I think you had your instincts were on point there, I think. Yeah. And when you look kind of to the future, like, is there any point at which you think you would want to ask Brittany questions? Or are you kind of, is that sort of a closed book in your mind? Like, how do you feel about that? Well, I mean, we think that the only reason she did it was for selfishness and to get attention and stuff like that. So if she didn't, if she did, what was she going to say? Up until now, Laura Weyburn had not chimed in.

And I was impressed as a fellow mom that she had been able to let Alyssa speak for herself despite how protective she must have been feeling. But in this moment, she did chime in to remind Alyssa of something that happened. I remember at one of your visits, you asked her why she did it. You don't remember that? You were, I think you were four. You asked her. Wow. I don't remember that. And she just said, she just kind of denied it. You were really mad. I would have been. That sounds like me. That sounds like me.

Wow. You said something like, why did you do that to me? And she said something like, I wrote it down a long time ago. I don't know exactly, but she said something like, what? I didn't meet her. She acted, you know, she just kind of blew it off. But the person that was watching your visit was right there and heard the whole thing. I did not know that. It sounds like something you would do though, doesn't it?

It does. It really does. Yeah, it's a big spirit for four-year-olds. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. In your mind, you're like, you're good. You don't need to have any more conversations with her.

I mean, if she's going to deny it, no. No. Yeah. I would just do a closed book, I guess. Did she ever take any accountability or apologize to you? Or, I mean, obviously she took a plea deal, but I know that's not the same thing as taking responsibility. And pretty, didn't she say something like in the courtroom? When she took the plea and that was all finishing and she had to go in front of the judge and the judge was doing all the things that the judge

does. The judge looked at her and said, are you pleading guilty because you are guilty? And he may have said the rest of what I'm about to say, but the reason he said it was this. I'm not sure if he said it, but he had to have her say she's pleading guilty because she is guilty. And she said, yes, I heard her say it. And that's all that I know that she ever took responsibility. OK, but that was. Well, know of, that she ever took responsibility. Okay. But that was... Well, I mean, it's a closed case. I mean, it's like an open closed book case

where she did something wrong. Everyone knows it. She has to say it and admit it. I mean, if she's not going to take, like be held accountable, let herself be held accountable and say that she did it. And we all know that she did.

I mean, what's the point? I mean. Yeah, it's like, how do you move forward from that? Yeah, we all know that she did it and that she's lying and or she's not being held accountable or trying not to be held accountable. And I guess what I would say would be, don't let that get to you. She, she lies or she, I'm trying to find the words. She is a bad person, I guess. And even if she is your sister, you can turn your back on her, I guess and even if she is your sister you can turn your back on her I guess

and say I can't be friends or I can't help you anymore I can't do anything for you because you can't yeah I mean thank you um and I think you know that's something that you know I think a lot of survivors struggle with, especially if they were really close to their mom all through their life. And then they are having to reconcile figuring out what their mom had been doing their whole life. And sort of struggle with, like, well, this person's my mom or this person's my family member. Like, I have to have a relationship with them. And I think, you know, and people will— You don't have to.

Yeah. You don't. I didn't have to owe anything to Brittany. I mean, she did something bad to me. And if someone does something bad to you, then you shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. You shouldn't live with regret. You shouldn't do anything to put yourself on hold

or any of that because you shouldn't do anything to put yourself on hold or any of that because you didn't do anything wrong. And it's just terrible how people think that sometimes. I mean, not terrible. It's just like hard to believe that people think that it's their fault. Yeah, it's choices. And I think that's something I always want people to understand is that it's a conscious choice. They make, you know, someone like Brittany makes a choice and a series of choices and that's what's laid out in the evidence, right? It's not a sort of moment of delusion or, you know, it's not. Yeah, it's not like, it's not like you have a mental illness or any of that. I mean, whenever I was little or sometimes

this thought comes up into my head, what if she had a mental illness or any of that? And I'm like, no, that's not right. I mean, even if she had a mental illness, she shouldn't be doing it to her child. And one possibility I think would be that like me and my mom, we think that we know that she had like a rough family or a very crazy family. And we know that her mom, she like wasn't nice to her or something like that. I mean, it could have been her trauma as a kid that brought her to do that. But I mean, even if you have trauma as a kid, it's not not like I'm gonna go and do the same thing to my children exactly I mean she she might have had trauma as a kid I had trauma as a kid

but that still doesn't make it right what you did Brittany will always be a part of Alyssa's past, but the abuse she endured does not define Alyssa. And when talking about her current family, the Wayburns, it's clear that just like they felt about her, Alyssa feels like they were meant to be. I actually knew mom and dad before they were my mom and dad. Like, we would see them at family events or any of that. And then I was already warmed up to them. And I also knew my older brother, Lucas.

So, yeah. And I just remember playing with Lucas and coloring with him. And then that was one of the things that brought me into the family I guess like great sibling rivalry I'm just kidding but I also take to people very fast and sometimes that's not a good thing and sometimes it is and just yeah but it's just I'm glad I'm glad too and I think that's kind of the business of growing up and being human is fate and it can take a long time to figure out you know who you should trust and who you can't yeah it's just you should always be open to people but

you should like always have an open heart to people but not if you know that they're bad if like you feel that way and you're just like I can't be friends with you and you don't tell them that then it could get bad or any of that but it's just hard to find out I guess who and who isn't? Right. And that is like open heart, but also trust your instincts. Yeah. Like survival skill. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And in some ways, like maybe you're sort of more finely honed because of that. We've talked a lot about the Weyburns and how wonderful they are. And like any family, they have their own challenges, and Alyssa told us about some of those. Every family has struggles, but the one hard thing is staying like a family. Like, whenever someone did something and you get mad at them, it's hard to forgive them sometimes.

But I have that trouble a lot, especially with one of my older siblings. And it's just very hard to forgive them, especially if they keep on doing it and doing it and doing it. But family, you should always forgive. Well, try to forgive. It's just you should try to forgive if it's worth forgiving. My favorite thing would be how understanding they are sometimes. They try to understand.

And like a few months ago, I guess, I had like not a mental breakdown, but like, why did she do this and all that? And my mom and dad were like, they just tried to understand and all that stuff because they don't know what it was, but they do their best to understand because no one knows exactly what happened. It's like, no one knows exactly what I went through

or how I felt through it. So I guess, unless you're me, I guess it's just like, they do their best to understand most of the time. That's the best thing people around you can do, right? Is just try and be there for you. Yeah. But I mean, sometimes it's hard. Because sometimes I just push them away or something like that. Because I want to be left alone and think about everything. But yeah.

It's hard whenever you don't feel like anyone's there for you. Or whenever you just found out or you's there for you or like whenever you're just found out or you just got out of the situation. You don't know where to go. You don't know where to live. You don't know anything. And it's, I guess, hard to find anyone who can relate or try to relate or understand,

especially if you're still living with your family that did it to you. So I guess that's what I'm trying to say. As we were wrapping up the interview, I could see how proud Laura was of Alyssa and she chimed in. It was very cool to be able to sit next to you with somebody else talking to you and just listen. That was, Alyssa, you're pretty awesome. I mean, you know you are. And it's not that I'm surprised that you're awesome. It's just some of your answers were more maturely thought out than I knew that you had thought them out. It was pretty cool, honey. We did this interview with Alyssa over a year ago and she is still doing great. She is 16. She's learning to drive. I've

seen the wayburns recently when I was down in Texas, actually moderating a panel for this legislation that we talked about. And something else big has happened. Last April, we got the news that Brittany Phillips had died of an apparent overdose. And honestly, I wanted to update you on that and just talk about how that landed. I was standing in my kitchen when I got the text message from Mike telling me about Brittany's death. And my immediate feeling was relief.

I knew that the Weyburns and Mike, and certainly for myself, that we were all worried about the day when Alyssa would turn 18 and Brittany would inevitably try to get back into her life. And as much as Brittany didn't raise Alyssa and Alyssa doesn't have the same attachment to her that a lot of the survivors that I talked to have to their mothers because they were by and large raised by their mothers. I still have seen adult survivors dealing with how complicated that relationship is and I didn't want that for Alyssa. I've loved these moments in talking to her in the Weyburns where we talk about her genuinely forgetting that the Weyburns were not her original parents. And what I would most want for her is what I would most want for any survivor, which is to move forward.

I don't think there's a lot of opportunity to really have a healthy relationship with a parent that does this to you. I think that what making this show over the last three years and being really immersed in this topic has brought home for me is how dangerous these women are. And I was worried about Brittany. Brittany is a couple years younger than me. She was still young enough to have more children. And I think I felt a tremendous sense of relief when I heard about her death because I know she can't hurt anyone else now. And my second thought was, what a sad waste of a life to spend your life the way that she had.

I know that Alyssa and the Weyburns, they may have some kind of mixed feelings over that death, but for me, I'm relieved that Alyssa doesn't have to put additional emotional energy into trying to deal with that person coming back into her life. Like Brittany, when we looked up her Facebook, her profile picture was a picture that we talked about in this podcast, which is her with Alyssa as a two-year-old wearing leg braces. Brittany was still wrapping her identity around her being a mother

of a sick child. That is what that picture tells me. So I think we can be absolutely sure that on Alyssa's 18th birthday, Brittany was going to be back trying to get into her life, right? Because that's the obsession. That's the compulsion. That's that huge part of their identity. And so I'm glad that that's not going to happen. I just want Alyssa to be able to go and live her life. And if she wants to be an advocate for this, like she is now, if she wants to be a voice on this issue, then that is so wonderful and so appreciated. And if she decides she doesn't, that's great too. I just want her to like have her life and that's enough. We did, while we were making this season of the show,

we did reach out to Brittany to see if she wanted to talk to us and hadn't heard anything at the time of her death. But I think it's really important to say that this is not Brittany's story. This is Alyssa's story. And with that, I want to let Alyssa have the final word this season.

And here she is telling us her advice for her fellow survivors. So would you want those people to know that they're not alone? Mm-hmm. I mean, everyone feels alone at some points in their life. Like, this person went through a car crash, or they don't know the trauma, or no one knows the trauma and it's just very hard to think you're not alone, especially whenever you feel all alone because you feel like no one else can

relate, but I'm pretty sure some people can relate. One person at least can relate. You just gotta find those people. Gotta search the interweb. Search the interweb. Search the interweb. Google it.

Google it. Nobody Should Believe Me is produced by Large Media. Our music is by Johnny Nicholson and Joel Shupak. Special thanks to our lead producer, Tina Noll, and our editor, Travis Clark.