Noob School - Becoming Fearless with Dr. Rebecca Heiss

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

Today on Noob School, we're joined by Dr. Rebecca Heiss - keynote speaker, author, stress psychologist and more. She's a science-backed leadership and performance expert, focused on taking business teams to the next level. Rebecca takes us through her ever-changing career, from attaining a Ph.D. in biology to a point in her life that led to some major changes, driving her to do what she does today. Check out what the Noob School website has to offer: https://SchoolForNoobs.com I'm going to be sharing my secrets on all my social channels, but if you want them all at your fingertips, start with my book, Sales for Noobs: https://amzn.to/3tiaxsL Subscribe to our newsletter today: https://bit.ly/3Ned5kL #SalesTraining #B2BSales #SalesExcellence #SalesStrategy #BusinessGrowth #SalesLeadership #SalesSuccess #SalesCoaching #SalesSkills #SalesInnovation #SalesTips #SalesPerformance #SalesTransformation #SalesTeamDevelopment #SalesMotivation #SalesEnablement #SalesGoals #SalesExpertise #SalesInsights #SalesTrends

New School. All right, welcome back to Noob School. John Sterling here. Today I've got a friend, Dr. Rebecca Heiss. Rebecca and I met, I think, how many years ago? I was afraid you were going to ask me that. That's the first question I can't answer it. I was going to say seven?

Seven. Oh, we're close. Oh, we're close. Okay, six or seven. That's good. So, yeah, we met six or seven years ago, and she cold called me over and over and over again. wanting me to look at some new app she had. And at the time, I was like, no, I have no interest in an angel investment.

I don't want to give free advice. I don't want to, I'm just too busy with what I'm doing, so no. But I would just politely ignore, I think. I think I ever said no. Then, so I figured she would go away like most people. And then all of a sudden my brother calls me. My brother Dan Sterling, and he goes, hey, hey, hey, give me a favor. I'm like, what he goes, talk to this girl, this girl.

I'm like, who? And he goes, her name's Rebecca something. Call her, talk to her. I'm like, why should I talk to her? He goes, just talk to her, just talk to her. So I'm like, all right, there must be some reason. I got to talk to Rebecca, but then I ignored that also because he couldn't give me a good reason. So she had gotten through to my brother.

And then she called me again and said it was either a text. It was a text because you got my number from Dan and said, hey, you know, I'm going to be around downtown all next week. I can come by any day and bring whatever call. coffee you want and spend 10 minutes with you. At that point, after all that work, who could say no? I couldn't say no. And sure enough, there you were with the coffee. And we talked about your application you were working on at the time. And, you know, just from a sales perspective, as a long-time sales manager, I love a good salesperson. I really didn't want to talk about the app, but I couldn't wait to meet you. So that was a good meeting.

Well, I appreciate that. It's funny because I'd actually forgotten, that's how we met. Yeah. I, and I love that you think that I'm a good salesperson because the first thing that I sell anybody is I'm terrible at sales. I hate sales. Let's start there. What can I do for you? Like, what do you need?

And I'd have completely forgotten that. But I will say my dad as a little kid named me Skeeter, as in mosquito, because I was annoying and persistent. And I guess maybe that served me well in this case. Well, it did. It did. I think it's a good, great example for, you know, the people watching the show is, you know, you just, you cannot give up too easily. If you have someone who's high on your target list, if you have a top hundred prospects or people you want to maybe invest in your company or maybe hire you or whatever, your product, buy your product, you can't give up until they call a restraining order on you. Or at least tell you hell no.

Right? But just to ignore you, you haven't found out the answer yet. That's right. That's exactly right. Everybody's busy. Everybody's busy. I ignore 90% of the things that come into me. But if you hit me again, and again, please don't do this.

But if you continue to hit me and hit me and hit me, and then you're like, listen, I'm going to bring you something you want. Yeah. I got 10 minutes to shoot the breeze. Let's go. Get a free cup of coffee if nothing else. Right. And with that kind of person, you never know what else might be coming with it. Like you and I, we didn't do the, I don't think I helped you at all on your application.

I do want to talk about that. But we became friends and we would meet from time to time and just brainstorm what the crazy stuff we're working on. And that's just it. Like you may not get the answer you're looking for, but you're going to get another answer. And I learned things about you that I'm like, oh, this is interesting. We can come back to that. Let's return to that in another meeting. Because if you're a one and done kind of person, oh, you don't have what I need right now.

Right. It's not good. I mean, you're going to burn a lot of bridge. is really quick. And there's almost always something there where you can connect and help each other. That's it. Yeah. So one of the things when we would meet for breakfast, as I recall, was we were going to write a book. And we both wrote a book. That's right. That's right. Mine's right here. Take that off. Hers is called fearless. Instinct. Instinct. Instinct. Your company's called fearless. And tell us about the book. Yeah. So the book actually traces my, my background,

which is evolutionary biology and stress physiology. And I look at the seven instincts that really served us as humans back when our brains were evolving, so like ancestral times. And today actually hold us back from achieving and living our most successful lives. So things like fear of people that look different or act different. Like that's completely natural. Completely natural. I'm not saying we should, but it's natural.

Biologically, somebody who looked different from you was coming from an outside tribe, probably there to kill you still all your resources. So today when we have stress responses to people that think different look different active and natural But not helpful so then I give some tips and ideas of like how we can begin to overcome this and reshape our brains So that's what the that's what the book is about Yeah, very cool Yeah, and like you know for for sales It's terrifying to be rejected right like you get kicked out of the tribe you die

Yeah, so every sales call you make like you might have this Pitre patter oh my gosh stress response I'm gonna kick up What's the worst thing that happens? I'm says no, which is a good response. Yeah. My book, right? Like, okay, what else can we do? Yeah.

But it's completely natural to have those responses. So getting past the fear of something is wrong with me, no. That's your biology. Right. Move on from there. What can I do to override it? That's great. Yeah.

And it would be, it would be, you know, it's easy to be logical when we're just talking about it. But being a salesperson is terrifying sometimes. But logically, it would be very unusual and impossible. if all the people you called on bought something. It just doesn't work that way. Wouldn't that be nice? It would be very nice. We probably wouldn't exist as salespeople at that point

because everybody could do it, right? That's right. Just ordered on Amazon. There you go. Everything. Done. Well, and then just one more thing about what you're doing. Now, you're primarily, you're a PhD in this, in this.

It's some kind of psychology. Stress physiology. Stress physiology. Okay, so you're a PhD in that, which is that, Is that a subset of psychology? It's a subset of biology. Biology. So I have, all right, let's just, let's direct a camera.

I'm a nerd. I'm a nerd. I didn't know what to do with my life. So I just kept collecting degrees. So I have a degree in ornithology, bird nerd. Evolution in human behavior. So that's sort of evolutionary psychology. And then my PhD is actually in stress physiology,

which is understanding the hormones and the behaviors that we have when we're under stress. Okay. Which is, you know, pretty good. job security these days. Yeah, sure. Everybody's feeling the stress. So you said you're a bird nerd? You studied birds?

I have a master's degree in ornithology. Ten years studying crows. Crows? Fun fact. Okay. And so a crow, I understand, I have a limited bird knowledge, but some of the smartest birds out there? Absolutely.

Their brain to body mass ratio is as high as ours. Really? Yeah. Okay. If they grow opposable thumbs look out. Like this is AI in the making. Forget AI. This is gross of real.

When they're in the trees and they see a certain car or something going on and they make the sounds to each other, that's some kind of vocabulary? Yeah. So actually, I'll tell you a fun story. So I used to ban birds, right? I used to band all of these crows. So we knew them all as individuals. And they actually recognize human faces. So I would have to wear a mask when I was banding them.

So when I was the bad guy, I was this. And then I was the good guy the rest of the time. So they would follow my car because I'd throw them peanuts. And so they learned very, very well. So we had a call come into the lab where I was working. And I thought it was a, I thought it was a prank. Like, this is Steve from the National Security Defense. Like, okay, Steve.

And it turns out it was, you know, Pentagon-level person calling and looking at the research that says, you know, crows recognize human faces. Well, how accurate are they? Because crows live everywhere. And you're not looking for, like, you might be looking for drones. You're not looking for crows. And they can identify, say, a terrorist in a large market, for example.

And they can wear a camera pack, which they can. So now, of course, the joke is every time I see a crow, I'm like, they're watching. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah, fun stuff. Wow. You never know where your worlds will intersect.

That is wild. Yeah. That's wild. So before we get too deep, let's back up to the beginning. So where did you grow up? I grew up in a really small town at upstate New York called Norwich, New York. Hold of Norwich Academy. No.

No? No, that would be great. That would be great. Where's Norwich Academy? I think it's in Connecticut. Okay. Yeah. Norwich is like, we graduated 100 people.

Okay. It's tiny. Okay. But it was a great place to grow up. You know, I had a tight net group of friends. I played basketball. I was the kid who, I think I should have recognized earlier on that I was always going to be an entrepreneur because my sister was checking out things

like little women and like all of these classics from the library and I'm always pulling the like I don't know a hundred ideas better than a lemonade stand you know I was always curious about okay what what problem can I how can I how can I better my my world yeah yeah cool and then where'd you go to college Binghamton University so I went to a state school did my undergrad there stayed and my master's my first master's degree there went into my first master's degree there went into did work at Cornell and then ended up at University of Memphis from my PhD. Okay. And where did you get the master's in Ornithology? At Binghamton University.

Did they call you any names like Bird Lady or anything? Oh, yeah, I'm Crow Girl, you know, like, of course, of course, the Bird Lady. Yeah. Especially, you know, when you're driving through downtown and you've got a mob full of crows like coming at you, it's hard to miss those nicknames. That's great. When did we get you in Greenville and how did you end up here? Yeah, so I, after my PhD, I went to Hartsville, of all places.

Hartsville, South Carolina, to teach at the governor school for science and math. Nice. It was a very last minute decision. I actually had a postdoc at Cambridge, and like a week after I graduated, some families, things came up. My grandmother was ill. I didn't want to be overseas. And so I took this position, and I loved it. I loved it.

I loved teaching. I loved the students. I loved their curiosity. So I kind of fell in love with that. And about five years into that position, I was recruited to Greenville to open Next High School. Oh, okay. Yeah, so I was the founders of Next High School, which is, for those who that don't know, it's one of these innovative charter schools that focused on impact-based learning.

So I was a science person. Huh. Yeah. And who recruited you? Zach Ikenberry. Zach I can bury. So he was the, okay. He sold me so fast.

I mean, you want to talk about a salesperson. He's good. He's good. I met Zach. That's great. My nephew went to that, went there. Daniel. Oh, yeah.

Remember, Dan? Remember Dan? Remember Dan? Remember Dan? Remember Daniel? That's the first year. That's right. Yep.

Yeah. He was a rascal then. He's a rascal now. Well, I feel like we need to give more places for rascolness. You know? We really do. Yeah. Yeah.

Cool. So you know Daniel. I do. Gosh, I haven't, I haven't thought about, all I can picture is this like, I don't know, 14-year-old kid, I'm sure. What is he now? He's got to be in his 20s. He's in his early 20s, and he is now, he's become a CrossFit superstar.

He's in the top 80 in the world. Holy smokes. In the world. That's incredible. He goes to all these competitions and stuff. Wow. I'll show you some videos when we're finished. Yeah, he's doing well.

All because of you. I mean, I'm going to take credit for that. Why not? Like, why not? You give the kid an opportunity to explore their interests and look what happens. That's right. You said, do some push-ups, boy. All right, I love it. You came here because the next, that was a real kind of adventure move.

You know, it was. It was, I loved the position I was in, and I was still really young. You know, it was in my 20s. And I was like, man, I could live and die here. I could retire at this. And I was like, I just don't think of there. Yeah. So when this opportunity arose, and the funny thing is, as a. graduate student I remember coming through Greenville and just like doing a little swivel look and I was like I'm gonna live here one day and when that opportunity

arose I was like let's do it yeah yeah big jump and so how long did you stay there I was just there the first year first year yeah important year the building year yeah yeah and it's you immediately start on acuity after that I didn't I I I I I blew up my life so I unfortunately my my sister-in-law who had been a sister to me for 20 years at that point, I was diagnosed with terminal cancer. And I had this moment where, you know, everybody has the rug pulled out from them. And I took a look at my life and I was like, man, if this had been my diagnosis, I'd be really disappointed with the life that I'd led. You know, I'd played it mostly safe. And I was looking at my career at next, and it was,

It was fun. But I was like, I know what I'm going to be doing. I'm not really learning much more anymore. What do I want to do? So I quit my job, sold my house, and divorced my husband that month. Wow. Not the takeaway for most people, right?

But recognizing that I'd been making decisions out of fear, I really wanted to clean slate and say, okay, if I'm actually living for me, if I'm not scared, what do I do? And I'd always loved a theater. I'd love to be on stage and I loved science and I loved helping people and I love teaching. And I was like, hmm, maybe I can make a career out of this.

So I started writing a book. I started speaking at Vistage groups, which are these CEO coaching organizations. And I started learning because I'm surrounded by all of these CEOs. They're doing well and they're teaching me as much as I'm offering anything to them. And that's when I started developing IQity because I realized one of the biggest things that people are missing is self-awareness.

I was like, man, I'm sure I'm missing self-awareness too. I would really like to know, honestly, some feedback. So that's when I started developing that. And then I gave a TEDx in Greenville, and that's really when I made the shift to full-time speaking. Okay. And that's what we're doing now. It's full-time speaking. Full-time.

Companies, nonprofits, cities. Companies, nonprofits, associations. Yeah, just keeping me busy. That's awesome. I've been giving you a hard time for the last year is I've been trying to get you booked on the podcast. I know. I'm sorry.

Every time she canceled, everything you canceled, I'd say, you just must be nervous about being on camera. You know what? That's it. That's it. You're on speech. Here's what I'll say. You know, I ask people, every single time I give a speech,

I ask people what their number one fear is. And inevitably, public speaking comes up. We're like being in front of a camera, right? And I get it, I do. Every time I go in front of a camera, every time I go on stage, I get butterflies too. And to me, that's a good thing. When I stop getting that, I stop caring. So all of the research that we've seen, this is, I'm going to turn into a nerd for a second, shows that the number one correlate to a purposeful, meaningful life is stress.

And that, like, that blows my mind. So it's past stressful events, current state of stress, and even future anxiety is what drives meaning and purpose. So that's a reminder to me. I'm like, oh, I'm doing something, I'm doing something meaningful now. Yeah, well, it's interesting because you think about some of the people that we know that maybe they're, let's just say they're trust fund kids or something. Yeah, yeah. And they're just, for the most part, I've never seen a happy one. That's right.

That's right. They're just kind of like, every day's the same. So that's really, yeah. So when you look at the performance curve, so if you have performance on the y-axis and stress on the x-axis, what you see is really low performance with really low stress. It's your trust fund babies, right? Classic. And generally unhappy.

So increasing to a point, and then you start to see this rapid drop-off. And that's what I'm most interested in, because most people are like, oh, I'm so stressed. You know, sales is a really stressful job. And if you're having this decline in performance because you're stressed, that's a problem. But I don't think we have to have that. And here's why. When Olympic athletes break world records, they do so at the highest levels of pressure. Right?

So there's this shift in mindset that occurs for what I call adventure mindset. That occurs for Olympic athletes to say, oh, this is an adventure. I've trained for this. I'm excited. That heart pumping, that's just bringing more blood to my muscles. It's transforming the stress into something that's useful. I call it aligning the butterflies. Right.

I still have them. But now they're working for me, not just scattering me. Right. To be more alert or more... That's it. Yeah, okay. More in the moment. Yeah.

Now, I haven't done near as much public speaking as you, but I did go to Del Carnegie. Yeah. And I'm telling you, they did such a good job. It was like a two-day deal. And what I remember was they said, most important thing is that the audience feels like that you're comfortable and happy up there and just having a good time. You can screw up. You can forget your lines.

The thing cannot work. As long as you're cool, that's it. Everything's fine. By the way, they're all cheering for you. Nobody wants a bad speaker. That's right. They're like, please be good. You got this.

You got this. You're good. Yeah. How did your, actually, the last time I think we sat down proper was writing your speech for your daughter's wedding. It went great. Is that right? Yes, it went great. Good.

It worked great. That's a high pressure situation. It was. It was. But it went very well. And it was kind of weird, though, because you're just, it's a big deal, and you're just sitting around talking, you know, a couple hundred people and talking. And all of a sudden the guy comes and gets you and goes, we need you now.

And you're like, boom, microphone. And the band's all looking at you. And you're like, you've got to go now. But luckily, you know, we had enough of a theme that it worked fine. That's good. And she was easy to talk about. Of course. I'll tell you that this most scared, I think I've ever seen a group of professional speakers.

This was hilarious. My speaking coach got married this past year. And he asked five of us, all of his coachees, to speak at his life, to give a little toast. And we were all seated at a table together. And man, I'm looking around and I'm like, I'm not having a drinker. I'm not having a drink. Everybody was so nervous. But again, it's like, this is meaningful.

Right. Because it was that coach. That's it. Cool. Okay. I missed one thing. So when Zach I can bury recruited you to come to next, And you said he was a good salesperson.

What made him good? That's a great question. What made him good? He was curious. He was really, I remember him being really curious about me. Yeah. Right. And what I was looking to build.

And so, you know, listen, it's my favorite thing to talk about is myself, as is everybody else's favorite topic. So the more I got to say, oh, yeah, I'm really excited about, you know, this curriculum and how we could, the more I envisioned myself creating it and the easier it was for him to say all right so what do you need what do you need for me to make this move and I was like oh

look what I've done I've already just like wait now I have to decide yeah so it was an easy it was an easy conversation and I think part of it too was that he was so he was so him right like it wasn't yeah

it wasn't a coat and tie this is probably the biggest thing headmaster of the next school. Exactly. Like that's not going to work for me. Right. You know. It would have been over right then.

It would have been. It would have been. And even, you know, I know I have tried that tactic before. You know, I've tried to go in to CEOs in my suit. Uh-huh. It won't work. Right. Because I'm not me.

Right. And if I'm not me, I can't sell me. Yeah. Exactly. We coach people on that, too, like what to dress. whatever you normally wear. Right. You know?

That's huge. Be yourself. And if that, if that, if yourself is a good match for this, then that's good. That's it. If not, we can't, we can't fake it. That's excellent. So we coach people to do exactly what Zach did, which is to, first of all, be himself, to be disarming and to immediately put all the focus on you, the prospect.

And honestly and curiously ask. ask what would you, what's good in your world? What are you looking for? Yeah. Because it might not be what we have. Yeah. I mean, and that's it, right? Like being, I think being willing to go, oh, I may not be a good fit for this.

Right. That's one of the approaches that I think actually makes people want me more when I, when I sell my service. Which I would like to come back to that because selling you as a person versus a product, very different. things. But one of the things that I learned is sometimes when I identify that, I may not be a good fit, and I'm genuinely, like, I don't think I'm the right speaker for this. You might want to look at X, Y, and Z. They're like, no, I think you might be the right speaker. And that was so counterintuitive to me, because the more I tried to convince them, actually, this is what I talk about and this is what you're asking for. They started to say, no, no, no, I think what we want is,

I was like, oh. Trying to match you. Interesting, yeah. So showing up as you is helpful. People, and you know this from all your studies, your psychology studies and others, is when somebody pushes you, you want to push back naturally. That's right. And when you say, no, no, no, let me help you.

People try to help. Here we are. And it's just so true. I mean, if you were to say, you need Rebecca, and let me tell you why. Because I do this and this and this, and your salespeople need that, and so on and so, and so. And they'll say, well, that's all well and good, but we're talking to these other people. They're pretty good, too. That's it.

Versus like, no, no, Rebecca, we think you probably would be a good fit. Anyway. Yeah. I had a guy one time that I called this company that he just sold their company for a zillion dollars. And I called the owner and just cold called him and said, listen, congratulations. I'm in the same business as you. We're much smaller. Can you give me like one or two things y'all did to be so successful?

Kind of an idiot's question, but I was an idiot. So I asked an anyway. I think it's brilliant to ask those questions. And so he, the son of a gun, he said, well, why don't we meet? I'll be in Atlanta in two weeks. He was from Texas. He goes, if you come to Atlanta, I'll take you to lunch and we'll talk about it. Very kind of him to do that.

But what he said was, we hired this one guy, this consultant, once a year, to come look at our business and kind of keep us on the right path. He was very, very good at kind of the positioning of companies. So anyway, so I called that guy. And I said, yeah, Al, so-and-so told me about you, and we'd love to have you do the same thing for our business. We'd like to do what they did. And he goes, okay, no problem. He goes, it's $10,000 a day. and plus expenses and so on, so on, so I said, okay, fine, fine.

But let me ask you a few questions about what you do. And I started to grill him a little bit. And he goes, he goes, well, okay, did you talk to the other guy? And I'm like, yeah, he goes, well, that's what I do. I don't, you know, so he kind of politely just said, I'm not going to answer all your questions. Yeah. Do you want it or don't you?

Yeah. And we did, and he was the best thing we ever did. Isn't that? Yeah. But his sales tactic was just so nicely taking or leave it. I think, you know, and this is sort of from evolutionary origins, we have this need to prove ourselves. And we spend so much time and energy proving ourselves.

Like, no, I'm the best. Our product is the best. There's nothing else out there like it. Don't worry about it. Trust me. Right. Instead of saying, no, no, here's what we offer. Right.

Yeah. And shutting my mouth. Yeah. Which is, it's so hard. And I'll tell you the lesson that I learned on product versus self is I know that I'm the best representative to sell myself, to sell my services. And I resisted that for so long. I just wanted somebody else to do it because I, like I said, I hate sales. I'm not good at sales.

But what I realize is it's because I wasn't fully confident in me. it's easy to have a product and like, I believe in, I believe in this book, I believe in this process, I know this is going to work for you and hand it to somebody. It's another thing to say, I have something to offer, I have something to offer, I have a service that I know is valuable, me. And it took a long time for me to make that switch and go, okay, wait, somebody is willing to pay this. Therefore, and repeatedly, therefore, maybe, Rebecca, the story that you need to tell yourself

needs to change. And once I changed that, like sales became a lot easier. And was that story verified because you've had so much success with the speaking? I mean, I think they go hand in hand. I think it's a chicken egg thing. But it was a story that I was telling, which is like, who are you to say? Who are you to give advice? You know, and I'm like, well, actually, you know, degrees or great degrees. Like, I'm pretty good at distilling science and telling a story in a way that is useful that people can apply it. Like, that's a skill. Oh, I have that skill.

Okay, maybe this is a value that I bring. And telling that story, I mean, stories, I do a lot of work on the power of storytelling. And you want to increase your sales by 37%. Tell yourself that you're a good salesperson. That's it. Period. End of discussion, 37% increase with that affirmation.

And that sounds so like, woo, woo, and out there and like, try it because we have science that backs it. Yeah, I mean, I agree. Do you coach or talk on like the morning affirmations? Oh yeah, yeah. So interestingly, I'm a big proponent of morning affirmations. And again, I have to be very careful to couch it in a way that people will accept it because it does feel like a little out there, right?

And I'm like, let me show you the science. Let me walk you through three different studies. And then let me ask you this. What happens when you screw up? What do you say? What do you say to yourself? Like, you know, I'm an idiot. Like, so you actually believe in self-talk because you're doing it all the time.

What you haven't tried is actually the opposite of that. And, you know, if anybody is old enough as I am to remember the SNL character, right, the I'm good enough, I'm smart enough. Like, and gosh, aren't it? Is that Jack Handy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuart Smolley. Stuart Smalley? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, there's something to it. Yeah. One of the big tricks, and I'll just give this quick tip, is saying I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, that actually can work in reverse. Because if you don't believe it, you're lying to yourself and it doesn't work well. So the small shift there is to say, Rebecca, talks about yourself in the third person. You are good enough.

And what that does to the brain is it creates emotional distancing. distancing. So now I'm hearing John might be telling me, Rebecca, you're good enough, even though I'm saying it. And it sounds so corny. But that slight shift makes a huge difference in our willingness to accept the story. You're telling yourself. That's right.

Okay. Interesting. I talk about the affirmations a lot with the Noob School folks. The one I've been using for the last couple years is I can handle this in the morning. So I say that a couple of times, just when I'm brushing my teeth. And then I swear, something will pop up and something will happen, you know, and all of a sudden the first thing I think is, I can handle this.

Instead of, oh, no. I'm so overwhelmed. What do I do? It's just, no, no, I can handle this. Let's just put it down on papers, figure it out. It's called Rebecca. She'll figure it out. Don't delegate to me.

But also, also, I've learned this, you know, firsthand. I was just telling you before we started filming is on the way back from Charleston today. Yeah. You see those billboards for sausage and egg biscuits. see them enough times, you eventually got to stop. Your resistance is just like, wow. And there's no, I didn't have anybody with me, so who's watching, you know? Well, it's me calling you the eighth time.

The eighth time, you're like, fine, I'll just go out the biscuit. That's right, that's right. So my point is those affirmations work. That's why people pay to have stuff on billboards or on advertising. It gets in your brain. And if we don't on purpose put the positive things in our brain, all we get to negative. That's it. That's it, because that's what helped us.

to survive. Yeah. Right? And so our brain naturally has these automatic negative thoughts. We call it ants, right? Like the dinosaur might be coming. It's the tiger. The tiger's going to eat me. Like when you have that overwhelm, what people do is they go into a stress response, right? We only have one response to stress and it's like to fight, flight, or freeze. That's not helpful if you're going to hit reply all, you're going to type a test email. In today's environment, those aren't useful responses. So one of the tricks that I offer people is, is allow yourself three minutes. Set a timer for three minutes because our stress response

is literally built for three minutes of screaming terror across the Savannah, right? So scream, scream, outrun the tire, go ahead and stress out of your gourd about that thing that is just gonna be awful. Then you take those two breaths and you go, I can handle this, right? And the third step is just getting curious.

So what's the smallest step I can take to move forward? Yeah. That's it, it's three, two, one, real simple. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was talking to a guy who has been working with entrepreneurs, business people for decades in Greenville. And we're talking about this subject of like working through problems. And he goes, you know, he goes, I've seen so many problems people have had over the years. But I've never seen one time when the person just got up every morning and tried to, what is the next thing I can do?

And they always work through it. It might not be like it was before, but they kind of work through it and everything's rolling again. But some of the people, you know, quit or freak out or, you know. So we call that the winner cycle. Okay. So one of the things in biology, and again, usually we see this with like two fighting, I don't know, deer, right? And the one male that wins has this surge in testosterone and a decrease in cortisol, your main stress hormone. And so they're more likely, their hormones actually support them winning the next engagement.

And so what we can do to work with our biology rather than against it is set these really small goals. So the story that I tell is a friend of mine medically needed to lose about 150 pounds. And he did it. And everybody's like, oh my gosh, you know, like, John, how'd you lose 150 pounds? He's like, I didn't. I lost one pound. 150 times. And that, like, that distinction is so simple, but it's missed by so many people.

It's like, a big overwhelming dinosaur can't handle it. going to stress out and get nowhere. Eating the elephant. What's the smallest thing I can do to get that momentum working for me and start that flywheel? That's a good way to look at it. Now, I want to ask you about sales training. Have you had any formal training? No.

I have had the school of hard knocks. I have done everything wrong. I can tell you how not to do sales. How do you not do it? Anonymously send out an email to 5,000 people. Yeah. You get a target, don't you? It's pretty bad.

It's pretty bad. And even if the bots don't catch you, it's just awful. I've done it before. It feels bad. I have to. It feels bad. It feels bad. And honestly, it feels bad to receive it, too.

Like, I get those now, and I'm like, ugh. Let me respond and teach you something. Yeah. Yeah. I get that it's a numbers game to some degree. Yeah. I get it. But, man, those personal relationships, those small personalizations make a huge difference.

Yeah. I was listening to Sam Altman, the chat GPT guy, the other day. And I was just fascinated. I thought it was going to be some talk about, you know, chat GBT. He was, his advice was on how to start a business. And he was saying, you know, start with one customer. And literally like, and you want them near you? And you want to be able to go and hang out with him every day or once a week and how are they using it?

What could you get the last thing you want is too many customers because you can't figure out what how they're using it. Because everybody's saying something different and you're missing. Yeah. Get one and then get a second one and the third one and it goes once you get, once you finally figure out what this thing ought to look like to make the customers happy, then you can roll. You've adapted it 16,000 different ways and now you want to reach out to the 5,000 instead

of reaching out to the 5,000 and then 4,999 of them going this isn't quite right. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that I would add to the list of things not. to do, which is kind of sales one-on-one, but people miss it a lot, is they start the presentation talking about what they do. That's it. You know, I'm a speaker, and I'm a this, and I got a PhD, and I know a lot more about

Crows than you do, and, you know, all that stuff, and the people are just sitting there going, going to sleep or hating you. Right. Because I don't. I can't relate to you. Yeah. What about me? Yeah.

I ask you to come here to solve my problem. Yeah. And I've had people come in before and do both, and one guy came in, we're looking to, we need some hire some developers quickly. And all the rest of them, I had five people come in in a row, that little office where we met. And the first four said, well, thanks for meeting with me. We're so-and-so company. We've been in business 22 years. And it's just like, no.

I mean, it's just no, no, no, no. And the next guy comes in. And he goes, hey, John. He goes, tell me what's going on. on. Isn't that like a breath of fresh air? Wait, what? I get to talk.

What? He goes, tell me what's going on? Hmm. How long has that been happening? Have you tried to fix it? Uh-huh. You know, he just asked me, and then we got to the end, instead of telling me anything, he just said, I'll be able to help you with that.

That's all I need to know. What a great sales process? I don't want any more details. That's it. And we used him for years. He was great. That's great. Yeah.

Yeah. Make it about them. Right? Megan about them. How do I solve the problem that you are having? I need to know your problem first. I need to hear it from your mouth so that I can mimic those words back. Now, in your case, haven't they already seen you on stage, like in video or something?

So sometimes. And one of the things that I do is the speaking industry is a weird one, right? Because sometimes they've seen me. Sometimes they've seen YouTube clips of me. Sometimes they've just heard word of mouth. And so what I'll do is I'll ask if an agency is bringing in a client to me. I'll say, you know, tell me about. specifically what their problem is that they're trying to solve and I will go on

their website I'll read about them I'll try and find some language that they're using and then I'll create a custom video for them before they ever meet with me right and I load up a landing page it's a two-minute video you know it takes me two minutes to get on and say hey I'm Rebecca Heise you know I learned about you on your website I spent some time digging around I love that you know your company is dedicated to this mission I'm really curious to know more this problem that I hear you're having, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I ask a bunch of questions in the video.

And then I say, well, here's just a little bit about me. And I can't wait to get on the phone with you and talk more and learn how I can make your event really impactful. Perfect. We love that. End of discussion. And that little touch is like, she cares about us. She cared enough to go on our website, to do a little bit of research. Just a little bit.

And again, it takes 30 seconds. Yeah. But it means the world. Yeah. So, yeah. You're just putting yourself ahead of your competition. It's that small edge. Yeah.

It's that small edge. Yeah. What social media works best for your business? Oh, the bane of my existence. Okay, so I would love to say that I love social media and I'm fantastic at it and I'm not. It's like sales for me. It's a necessary part of what I do and I'm working on it. I use a lot of Instagram because I can just make short clips that I can then post

to Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and all of that. But my main sales channel is LinkedIn. Still LinkedIn. Still LinkedIn. Still the best for me. And I repurpose content from all of it. So is that because you have the most followers there or because it's LinkedIn? It's an excellent question because I don't know which.

is driving it. I do have the most followers there. And it's LinkedIn. It's where business happens still. I'm the same way. We put it on everything, but LinkedIn is where I get my most of my business front. I mean I think I think that's where, at least in my case, I have a lot of individuals that are interested in what I do. And I would say probably Instagram is where I get people from my master class because it's individuals looking to solve a problem for themselves. And for companies, for associations that are looking to for the company. It's LinkedIn. And tell me a little bit about, I know you have the book, Instinct, and you have your

speaking engagements. What about the master class? Tell us about that. Yeah, so my master class, I'm partnering with Fermin University, so I'm really excited. I have offered the master class and given it, gosh, to companies in Europe and India, all across North America. It's the first time I've actually had a community that is my own. So I'm really excited about doing it here in Greenville. The master class is a way for us to identify who we are and what stops us from being our most successful self and kind of bridge the gap between where we are and where we want to be.

So it identifies six chapters. We go through six chapters, including identity, who we are, how we show up in the world. Six chapters of your book? No, these are completely separate. Okay, okay. They're just kind of six different sections of the master class. Okay.

Who we are, how we show up in the world. We do eneagrams. The second chapter is stress and anxiety and time management. Huge issues for leaders on those fronts. The third chapter is on fear of rejection and fear of failure. The fourth is on confidence and imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome, I could talk for days about an imposter syndrome. That is a big, big thing for me.

And actually, it's important for sales too. We can come back to it. The fifth chapter is on boundary setting. and then the final chapter is on manifesting for skeptics and scientists. Ooh. So, yeah, it's a really fun, it's a really fun course. How long does it take? That's a good question.

So it's offered, I offer the content for a lifetime because I want everybody to be able to go through it at their own pace. Typically, my recommendation is six months. You'll have two modules every week. It's a 52-week module, or sorry, 52 modules. So you could do one every week for a year. I think a two a week is a nice pace. Are you with them when they're doing this?

So you can take it multiple different ways, right? There's a coaching package so I can do once a week coaching along with it. Yeah, or you can do it in a cohort, which is really fun for teams because you're experiencing it. I'm going to have to copy this. Yeah, I'll give you all the material. By the way, this is the best thing I think is like this is how I've grown as you're sharing material. you're like, oh, this is the best way that this works. Take it, use it.

I've got a weekly, I do my engagements with customers with businesses, but I've got a weekly web sales class where it's just open to the public. And that's the most fun hour of my week. Right. We just have the best time. And I learn every time because these are young people when they have different problems. And, you know, that's good. So let's talk about imposter syndrome because I can chime in there too.

Okay. First of all, can I talk about the fact that I have. hate that it's called a syndrome. Like, I really do. I... Well, should it be called? Well, I don't know. Let me think on that. Let me think on that. There's some marketing, I think, to be done. It needs a better PR agent. Syndrome. Yeah. Because, like, then it's you own it. There's something wrong with you. Like, like, I caught something. Yeah. And the reality is, everybody has feelings, if you're a human that is not a full narcissist, Everybody has some feeling of like, I don't belong here or I'm not enough.

And often what's going on is there have been unwritten rules in place that the culture has produced over years. So the easy example for me as a woman in business is a lot of women CEOs are like, I don't belong here, I didn't earn this. And it's like, well, look at the top 10 leadership books over the last 10 years. And they're all written, no offense, but by old white men. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's a lot of knowledge, a lot of knowledge and a lot of good things that we're doing. And it doesn't mean that those rules necessarily that have always worked are going to continue to always work. So just because you feel out of place doesn't mean necessarily that you are.

It's just write a new set of rules so that you do fit because those rules are going to work for another generation, another set of gender, race, identity, whatever it is. Yeah. So that's my small soap lock on an imposter syndrome. Like, don't call it a syndrome. Rewrite the rules. Yeah. Sit in the land of ambiguity. What a great gift to be the non-expert in the room, right?

Because you're going to ask the dumb questions. And those dumb questions often lead to really exciting solutions that nobody else has been willing to ask because they're all like, I don't belong. I don't fit. This is going to be a dumb question. Good. Yeah. Ask it because nobody else is. Yeah, they're all smarter than I am.

That's right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, well, I've certainly, I think everyone suffers from it. And I heard Tony Robbins the other day talking just recently about imposter syndrome. And he was saying that he has those feelings sometimes. And the guy was like, you have them? And he's like, he goes, well, I don't have them for long.

Yeah. Because with all of his tricks and stuff, he's like, I just remind myself quickly of what I've done. I mean, I've coached to every president in the last 10, you know, 20 years. And that's one of the tricks, I think, is to remind yourself of your, the reason you shouldn't be an imposter. Yeah. But there's some cases where you are an imposter. Like I put myself in situations with my personality, I'm much more likely to try and show up than do my homework. So I do show up as the imposter sometimes.

It feels horrible. You know what? But I think it's not a syndrome then. That's you taking yourself out of the comfort, sir. Yeah. Right? That's you stretching yourself and being like, I don't do my homework. what happens.

I have no idea. But you're there to learn, right? As opposed to I don't belong here. Yeah. And I think that's a big shift. Yet, what you said about, you know, even Tony Robbins having this, I think I agree. You know, these are thoughts just like stress that they come in and you can kind of watch it. And as long as you're the observer of that thought and you're not buying into it, you're like, oh, there's a cloud.

Let it pass through. You know, it's a big shift. Right. Yeah. Or just to do it anyway. Just do it anyway. I heard it. I heard that little thing up there, those synapses talking, and I'm just going to ignore it.

I'm going in that door right there. Okay, you want to think that I'm really there. And another thing I'll say to people, that this in my life is prism and truth, if you don't want to suffer so much from that, whatever you want to call it, imposter something, is try to put yourself in situations where you are the expert. You know, like what I have spent my life, most of my business life, in a software business. Right. And then after that, you know, some more software business, technology and stuff like that.

And when I finally shifted to sales, which is what I was doing within the technology world, only now do I not really feel like an imposter. To someone, in any of those situations for the last three decades, they could say, well, what was the transition in the technology? I'd have to look over here and say, well, Charlie, Charlie can probably answer that better than me. I could answer it, but let's let Charlie answer it. I mean, I didn't know. But see, that's so interesting.

You spent three decades doing this. I know. And you're like, that's not my area of expertise. So, like, I guess, to me, what the big takeaway I have is, just because you're in it for a long time doesn't mean that you're the expert. And just because you're in the newbie doesn't mean you're not the expert. Right. So, yeah, that's an interesting one. But I'm in an area now where I never feel like an imposter.

I can walk into any business and feel like. like, and I know how to evaluate what your situation is. So that's interesting. Can I ask a question to you? Sure. So how do you stay curious enough, even when you're the expert walking into a room, how do you stay curious enough to continue to grow and learn in that space? I just, I like it.

And I like it. And I feel like it's my, you know, it's my profession. And so every day I'm looking, following different sales gurus and trying to keep learning. and then, you know, it's not like I can walk in any business and know everything. I can't, but most of the time I'll be able to get at least 80%. Yeah, yeah. And be able to tell them some stuff that'll make them their revenue grow. So see, I, all right, I'm going to push back.

I think you are confident and competent, but you have the humility to say, I need to keep growing. I need to keep learning. You have the hunger. And I think that's the, maybe that's my own holdup of, like, like experts. I see experts as like, I got it all. I'm good. Don't need to learn anymore. Well, you know, I think, you know, that in this field and probably in most field, it's changing. That's it.

You know, it's changing all the time and just, you know, sitting here talking to you, I'm learning stuff. But it's fun to keep learning and no matter what you're doing. It is. It is. Let me ask you some really important questions here. All right. Ready for the hard stuff. Now you can't say The School of Sales for New's book

But what's your favorite book? My book Your book No, that's not fair That's not fair Besides your book in my book You know I knew this question was coming

And I have stressed out more about this particular question Because it's like It's like asking my favorite pizza I love all pizza I love foods I think I settled on It's a play

It's called Every Brilliant Thing And so it's not a business book, but I think it has more to teach us about business and life than most books out there. Okay. Every brilliant thing. I'll check it out. Yeah. And then your favorite band? Indigo girls.

Indigo girls. They are classic. Listen, any band that has started, they formed 40 years ago. Wow. And I went to a performance just here at the Peace Center a couple weeks ago. They're still running strong. They're still producing music, it's still relevant. I love them.

And favorite word? Discombobulated. I have a whole story about it, but discombobulated was the biggest word that I knew as a third grader, and I just thought it made me the smartest human being. Well, you know, it's funny because the word sounds discombobulated. It does, doesn't it? It's just a fun word to say, too. Discombobulated.

That's a great word. What we've taught about, I think, the main stuff that you're working on, but would you like to promote anything before we close out? Well, it wouldn't be a sales pitch if it would not. It wouldn't be a sales podcast. That's right. No, you know what? I don't have anything to promote.

You know what I do. I'm a speaker. I've got a master class. I would say the only thing I'd promote is if you have something that you want to learn that I can teach you, whether that's in speaking or in stress. Like, reach out to me. I'm happy to have an email correspondence or a phone call and help you out. Good.

Yeah. Well, thank you very much for being here finally. Your schedule allowed. And we'd love to have you back. You're a great guest. Well, thanks. Thanks for your patience. It's been a delight. And we have to do this more often. You got it. Thank you. Thanks. All right.

Bye. Bye. Thanks, John.