Noob School - Building Brands and Businesses: A Conversation with Marion Crawford

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

In this episode of the Noob School podcast, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Marion Crawford, the dynamic founder and CEO of Crawford, a full-service marketing and brand strategy firm based in Greenville, South Carolina. Marion's journey from her early education to leading a successful agency is both inspiring and insightful.Marion began her career in journalism, working on the Nightly News Desk at NBC in New York. She later served as a news writer and reporter for CBS and ABC affiliates in Spartanburg, SC, and Asheville, NC, respectively. This foundation in storytelling and communication paved the way for her transition into marketing and business development roles, including a notable tenure at ScanSource, Inc.In 2010, Marion founded Crawford, driven by a vision to provide comprehensive marketing solutions with a personal touch. Under her leadership, the agency has grown from a small team to a robust firm with a diverse portfolio. Marion's commitment to crafting compelling brand messages has positioned Crawford as a trusted partner across various industries.Beyond her professional achievements, Marion is deeply involved in her community. She has served on the boards of organizations such as Artisphere, the Peace Center, the Cancer Society of Greenville County, and the Urban League of the Upstate. Her dedication to both her craft and her community exemplifies the qualities of a true leader.During our conversation, Marion shared valuable insights into her career trajectory, the challenges and triumphs of building her own agency, and practical sales tips for aspiring entrepreneurs. Her story is a testament to the power of passion, resilience, and continuous learning.Get your sales in rhythm with The Sterling Method: https://SterlingSales.coI'm going to be sharing my secrets on all my social channels, but if you want them all at your fingertips, start with my book, Sales for Noobs: https://amzn.to/3tiaxsLSubscribe to our newsletter today: https://bit.ly/3Ned5kL#SalesTraining #B2BSales #SalesExcellence #SalesStrategy #BusinessGrowth #SalesLeadership #SalesSuccess #SalesCoaching #SalesSkills #SalesInnovation #SalesTips #SalesPerformance #SalesTransformation #SalesTeamDevelopment #SalesMotivation #SalesEnablement #SalesGoals #SalesExpertise #SalesInsights #SalesTrends#salestrends

New School. All right, well, welcome back to nude school, episode 1,48. Today I have another wonderful old friend. We actually go back. She's obviously much younger than me, but we went to the same high school. And Marion Rose Crawford, thanks for being here. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Of course. Marion has become one of the most successful business people, I would think in Greenville, in our town, in the area. and has after an initial career on-air reporting and working for a scan source. And I don't know if there was something else in there. I taught Spanish. Talk Spanish. Yes.

Elementary and middle school. A bless Spanish. A bit solement. No. So I'm using duolingo now. I'm trying to help my Spanish game. Nice. But eventually started her own PR and marketing.

firm. It's become primarily a marketing firm at this point, right? Marketing and advertising. And advertising. Marketing and advertising. So I want to hear all about that. But anyway, you've done this, you've had this, your own company for 25? No, not that long, but March will be 15 years. 15, okay, 15 years. Which we're really excited to celebrate because, you know, it's a big, it's a big milestone for us because after 15 years of being really figuring, you know, which we're really figuring out how to do things. Now I feel like we're in a position to just have a great time and do some great things. You figure some things out. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. It's funny when you start something, how you've got to try all these ways, like the best way to build, the best way to collect,

the best way to, you know, hire, fire, you know, all those things. And now you kind of got them worked out. Not perfect, but we're way better than we were when we started. I'll tell you that. You always do better. So, well, let's back up to the beginning and see how, you got here, and of course we're looking for lessons learned, particularly around sales and things you've done in sales that people can learn from. But I know you went to high school here in Greenville at Christchurch. Was there anything about your experience in high school that was helpful to you? I think having an opportunity to play sports was really helpful. I'm five foot two, so probably wouldn't have made a basketball team anywhere else, but was able to play basketball

at the praise church. And being part of a team and running track and being on the, we're actually still on the wall, our track relay. Yeah, still on the wall there. But field hockey, all of that, it created a competitive nature. I already had competitive nature, but it really helped me recognize the opportunity to win as a team, which is actually one of our core values, because that is so important. The team, and I love that.

And I think that helped for. who I am as a person. Right. Sports. Yeah. I read something the other day, and I think this applies to men as well as women, but this was about women. And it said they did a study of all the women that ran Fortune 1,000 companies, and 97% of

them were athletes. Interesting. I mean, that's not surprising. I think it just is, it's in your nature to want to get out there and do it, you know? Work for it and then win. That's awesome. And then after that, you chose University of Virginia for college. Was it close? Did you have some other ones you were thinking about? I did, actually. I was going to go to Davidson and play field hockey there. And then when I got into UVA, I called the coach at Davidson and said, I'm not going to be coming. I'm going to UVA instead. And she said, well, do you want me to call the coach up there and see if you can walk on? And I said, I don't think so. Well, I'm going to go to college because it was such a different mentality.

I mean, a big school versus Davidson. It was just going to be different. But I'm glad I went where I went. It was a great experience. Yeah. Davidson would have been a good choice too. Great school. And then what did you major in there?

I was an English major. English, okay. Which, you know, it's funny when I was going through that process, my father really wanted me to be in business, which is so funny that I run a business today. He wanted me to be in accounting and economics and all those things. And I did miserably in those classes. And I got in an English class and I was like, now this I can do. I can read and I can write really well. But today I love the fact that I have a really strong background in reading and writing.

And I still love the written word and the spoken word. But I have had to learn. I've gotten an MBA over the last 15 years for sure. And I use business skills every day, which, you know, who knew I was going to do that? Yeah, you never know. You never know. That's funny because, I mean, you think about, you know, people think I want to do PR. I want to promote people or promote events or whatever.

You've got to be able to run a business. You do. Regardless of what you were selling out here, you've got to be able to operate a business. Absolutely. And that's a big piece of what I think is a surprise in business. Right. You know, you think you're just going to go do the thing. the art of it all.

Right. But the operational side is important if you want to scale at all. Yeah. Or survive. Yeah, true. I mean, small businesses go out of business all the time because people don't file their taxes. Well, the first time I got a note from the South Carolina Department of Revenue because I had not paid payroll taxes because I didn't, I was doing it all myself. David, they must have gotten a trigger.

David Hudson came knocking on the door and said, I have a solution for you. I'm like, oh, sign me up. We'll take all the help again. David probably got to know someone at DOR and said, call me if you know. Yeah, whatever. He knocked on the door within a couple weeks. So I know there was some sort of like, here, these people are on a list. That's funny.

Well, he built a nice company. He did. He's been on the podcast. And so UVA, that was a good experience, English. So how much did you have? to read being English major at UVA, like a book a week or something? I mean, it's been a really long time. Just trying to understand it.

I mean, just, it was a good bit of reading. Like, there was a lot of Shakespeare. There was a lot of Emily Bronte. There was some really, you know, there was a lot of Faulkner. There were all kinds of Zorahil Hurston, a lot of different types of books that we read. It was good. I loved it. I love that part.

We did business one time years ago with a guy. He had a company, maybe 15 people. And he'd gone to Brown and measured in Shakespearean studies. Oh, wow. Okay. Impressive. And I'm like, I'm like, dude, why did you do that? You know?

And he's like, well, you know, I think Shakespeare can teach you just about everything. And so at the end of every, not every sentence, but every now and then, he would summarize whatever we're talking about with the Shakespearean quote. Oh, wow. One of them was, I said, you're growing, but why do you have such a small team here? And he said, he quoted where it was from, but he said, the few are the troops, the greater the spoils. I was like, I understand what you're saying.

I do, yes. That is so interesting. Yeah. Brown will let you major in anything, just whatever you want. You could major in Hamlet if you wanted to. Okay. I wouldn't, I didn't ever look at Browns. I don't know.

Yeah. I looked at it. Did you? Mm-hmm. It was, uh, I wasn't ready for it. Okay. I'd be ready for it today. I could handle it.

But I didn't even know what I wanted to major in. You have to make up your own major. And I was like, what do I know? And there was no computer. There was an internet. No one was telling no podcast to tell you how to do it. Nothing. I was just like, a paper booklet.

I was like a blank stare. I don't know. I go to sit a little. Oh, I love. And so when you got out of it. of that. Was your first job, the on-air job? No. I went to New York and I was a page for the NBC program, the NBC page program. So it was the best first job out of college, you can imagine. First of all, I didn't have to buy a new wardrobe because we were given really lovely

polyester white blouses, khaki skirts, navy blue blazers with a little NBC lapel and a little navy shoes. So that's really, I got to wear that every day. I got to wear that. But we gave tours, but we also worked on the David Letterman show was there at the time, the Saturday Night Live, the Today Show. And there was something Lauren Michaels was doing at the time called night music, which you would love. And it was this, he would have a studio similar to this one, and he would bring bands into jam together that didn't typically do that with a small studio audience. And I got to work those. And it was just, it was really fun. It was a great first job out of college.

Kind of crowd control. You're kind of leading people around. Yeah, I mean, just doing the little customer service type things, whatever needed to be done. But I will say this, we were celebrating the, I think it was the fifth, 15th year anniversary of Saturday Night Live or maybe the 10th. Maybe it was a 10th anniversary. And we were all supposed to, all the pages were going to work it. But this young woman and I who were working together, she was from North Carolina, we decided we were going to bring our black dresses, pumps, and pearls and everything just in case we weren't needed to work.

And sure enough, they had too many people working at. And they were like, you pages go home. So she and I went and put on our dresses and came back, and our page friends seated us in empty seats in the audience. So I got to sit next to Carly Simon during that show. And then when our bosses saw us, they asked us to go up to the Rainbow Room to greet all the guests as they were coming in. So it worked out great.

It was one of those like things. think ahead and see if you can't work something into this. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's being bold. That's trying something.

Sure. You know, don't accept the first no. Right. What even to know? It was just playing ahead. Like, what if? What if? Everyone's going to show up and they may not need all of us.

Right. So let's just be ready. Just in case. That was good. That was good. Did you meet Letterman or any of those people? I mean, I worked on the show with him. I don't say I met him.

Yeah. He would have made. fun of that page in the corner probably one of those kind of scenarios there's marion over there yeah he would just say that south carolina nothing memorable i will say that oh the thing that it was really this was formative for me we would rotate part of the page program as you rotate through the departments within the company one of them that i rotated through was an ad department but it was the back office of the ads. So I got to see what, whether this, I was looking at a Lotus spreadsheet to see if this

ad ran and if it did, I clicked this button. And if it didn't, I clicked that button. It was awful. It was awful. They offered me a job. And my dad was like, you got a job. Yay. And I was like, this will kill me.

It will kill my soul. Meanwhile, I was volunteering on the nightly news desk, answering phones, people calling him with stories. I would run it over to Maria Shriver or. Tom Brokaw, and that was firing me up. I loved it. Yeah. So that's how I ended up in news.

Got it. Got it. So you were hustling? Well, I was just, I knew I had an opportunity to be there. They didn't, they would say, sure, she's a page. She can come answer phones and be here. And I mean, watching all that happened was just, I loved it. Yeah.

You got five, five, four, three. I learned that, right? You don't say the two one. Right. Yeah. Well, how much fun is that? You know, Russell Park was up there on the stupid pet tricks one time. Oh, really?

Must not have been the same time you were up there. I might not have known Russell at the time. I knew Billy and I knew Missy, but I didn't know Russell. Well, there's some great people, wonderful people. Well, that's cool. So then... So that was really formative. That was formative, and you decided you wanted to do what they were doing.

You wanted to be on the air. I wanted to share important information with other people. I mean, that's really... When I was a young, little tiny person, I would carry around a notebook and a pen or a book. I was either reading or writing, something. And I always felt like there was something important that I needed to communicate. And so the news felt like the really perfect way to do that. So when I was home for, I think it was Christmas or Thanksgiving or something,

I went and interviewed around and got a job and started at the bottom. I mean, there's a movie. I don't remember the name of the movie. about a woman who like she starts in a newsroom and she's going to get people's laundry and, you know, all that and fix their coffee. That was her. Was this WSPA? That was WSPA.

But I would come in early and there was a photographer who taught me how to edit. And so then when someone was out, I could edit tape. So then I got quickly moved into a role of a associate producer because I could edit tape and I could write. So then I started writing news. So all that, and then eventually I went to lunch and this was such a wonderful thing. I love when people dropped little bits of information into your life. Jane Roblo took me to lunch one day and she said, what do you want to do? And I was like, Jane, I would just like to sit where you are and do what you do.

I think you're wonderful. I'd love to do it. It feels really important. And she said, well, I think you ought to dress for the job you want, not the job you have. Because I, you know, in my role, I didn't need to do anything but wear flip flops and blue jeans and t-shirts, which is what I was, I mean, you know, that was the back-off, that was the backside of the production. And so I went out and bought some clothes and started dressing up. And the bat Humphreys, the producer said, well, you interviewing? What are you doing? And I said, no, I just want to be ready.

So when the Gulf War I started, all the reporters were out on stories. and they came to me and said, here's your chance. We're going to go live and announce we're going to break in on the daily, like the soap operas. I think it was days of our lives that I had to interrupt to tell people we were going to war. It was like my big break.

It was so exciting. But I was dressed for the park. Yeah. I was ready. That's amazing. That's the second time. Yeah. I love that.

I love that. I mean, yeah, you've got to be ready. And you sort of plan for what, could happen. And so that I would offer to work weekends. First, I wasn't being paid to. So I would just go out with a photographer and cover weekend stories. And eventually all of that led to being on air at WLS. I was never full time on air. I was part time on air at SPA. And then later went to WLS where I was on air full time. So did they grab you and pull you over? How did you have to? No, I ended up having a period, a left SPA. My mom actually survivor of breast cancer, but she and I, I took time away

to care for her for a bit and then later went back to WLOS. Okay. And they put you on air. Yeah. That's cool. So when you're going to do the news, tell us about that process between like what you might say on the air and how you get the information and then write it or summarize it There's something someone's going to say. When you are out on the field capturing a story, you're jotting down information, and you've probably done as much research on the front end as you can, but you're really learning from the people. Now there's a lot more information out there, but back in the day, there was just not as much.

No. Internet was, I don't think we had Internet then. I'm not sure. Maybe we started to at the very end. So you would just jot down, if you heard them say something really. good when you were doing the interview, you would make a note of that so that when you got back to the studio, you could edit quickly. And usually the photographer is helping edit. But if not, if they had to edit something else, because maybe you shot two stories that day, I would be in there editing as fast as you could. And then you go throw it in.

You're in the truck writing on the way back to the studio so that you could throw it in to the computer and get it to your producer who is hounding you. I mean, deadlines. Where is it? I mean, because the news doesn't wait. Right. You know, they'll drop your story. They'll drop your story if you don't have it ready. So you just learn you never miss the deadline.

So when you say you got notes you took and then you're editing those into concise notes written down? Yeah, you start to write the story. At least I did. This was my habit. I would write the story and it didn't have a laptop or anything so I was on a notepad. I would write the story based on my notes and the interview we just had as I'm driving back. and they are driving. So the photographer would typically drive.

And then that way when I got to the station, I would type it up really fast. And then we would also go in and be editing. We didn't know if it was going to be a package, a voiceover, a voice like a VO bite, which is like a sound bite. So anyway, it just, it all happened so fast. But that was a long time ago too, John. What's interesting is for people who've never done that before, It's very interesting to hear what the process is like.

But I bet it's a little different now. I mean, I bet there's... Probably on the pad or something. I bet there's a lot of things that are different now because we had tapes. We literally had tapes back then. Yeah. Well, I bet you were better.

You and Jane were better than what they're doing today, I'd say. Old school. So how long did you stay on air? I actually... So I was on... I was at Bell Share, festival in Asheville and I had just interviewed the Highway Patrol about safety and everything at the festival and it ended and I think I worked Wednesday to Sunday to 30 to 1130 so that was my shift and so

it was Sunday night I'm driving home it's like 1130 and a log had fallen off of a logging truck and my left headlight was out and I didn't see the log so I ran over it basically didn't total my car but It was definitely, it was going to be limping home. And thankfully, cell phones had just come out. They were about this big in a bag. In a bag, yeah. Yeah. And I called Star HP because I just interviewed the highway patrol.

And they said, if you need something, you can always call Star HP. So I did. And I got the guy I had interviewed. They ended up coming and escorting me home and making sure my car got to Greenville. But that's when we decided Wednesday to Sunday, 2 to 1130. I was married. My husband was working regular hours. We hadn't had a day off together and forever.

We kind of decided it was time to shift out of that. That was 93, I think, somewhere in that time frame. So I decided to look at the real business world, and you were one of the people I came to talk to to interview with. And you did not have a role for me because I wasn't a good fit, which I think is awesome. You know, it's always good to know what you don't work for. But you recommended that I go over to ScanSource where I did fit.

which is hilarious because here I am coming out of news and an English major selling barcoding and scanning equipment, but it was great. And it lasted for several years until we had our second child. Well, it's interesting. Mike Bauer, you know, who was the CEO, he's still the CEO at ScanSource. Almost every time I see him, he's like, thank you for sending Marion over here. That's funny. Because you were great. Yeah, it was a good fit.

I mean, we went from, I was the second salesperson. I was the 19th employee. So what I really appreciate is the fact that I got to see the inside of a startup. I didn't realize how valuable that was going to be at the time for me later. Who knew what was going to come? But watching that and having that sales focus on numbers and knowing that it's important, we've got to hit the numbers every month. And this is where we're going to go.

And that has, I mean, I will just. watching those in my head, rewatching those meetings where we would see the numbers on the board. It was a great training ground for me when I started a business later. I'll also tell you a little thing about Steve Owings. He was the founder of ScanSource and he was a really great teacher in his own way. So he would come by my desk and he would ask me, so how much did you sell today? and I wouldn't know the answer. So very quickly, I started every day having a sticky note of exactly how much I'd sold all day.

So he would come by and I was like, I got it. He was what I've sold today. And then he'd say, at what margin? So then I started tracking my margins. But what that did was teach me so much without actually telling me these are the things you need to measure. He was showing me what he valued, which is sales numbers, but at a certain margin. and you can't be too high, you can't be too low. Those things matter.

And those things matter in our business today. Right. And it was just great lessons. Great. Well, I'm glad that was a great experience for you. Yeah, appreciate the referral. Of course. It was for a lot of people.

Mike and I, we exchanged people quite a bit when it just wasn't the right fit at one company and it was for another. So it worked out for Andrea Meade also. I don't know her. Andrea was, well, maybe she came after you. Okay. But she became their C-O-O, I think. And we had a guy on our team that was married to her, so we just helped her. But she turned out to be a superstar.

She was great. That's great. Just like you. Oh. So after years, five or six years at Scanzores. Is that when you started the business? No, I didn't. So I had our second child.

Okay. And I decided that I needed to be a little bit less because at that point in time, I had moved into business development for ScanSource and my territory was the U.S. and Canada. So I was flying all over the place. And I had a little two-year-old and another one on the way. And I was like, okay, this is not going to work. Keep out kicking your coverage, you know. I mean, these jobs, it's crazy. So I decided and I tried to move into marketing, which is hilarious given what we do now.

But I just, I couldn't figure out the balance. So I said, you know what? I'm going to step back, which I did. And I taught part time for years while my kids. And I ended up, we had a third child. And so I ended up in the schools with the kids until our youngest was seven. Okay. So that was allowed me to be on their school schedule.

I was off in the summers, vacations. Most, you know, it was just really convenient. What school? Well, started at Westminster and went to Christ School. And I'll tell you how the Christ School thing came about. A neighbor down the street said, I've just heard from my son that the Spanish teacher at Christ School is having a baby. She had a baby and she's not coming back from maternity leave. And they need someone temporarily.

Can you step in? I'm like, I need to refresh my Spanish, but we can do that. Sure. And so I did. And the coolest thing was I got to create a curriculum because there wasn't one. So I went and went to Blythe and I just did some great research and put together what I think was a fun, great curriculum. I enjoyed it. Actually, I think I taught your youngest. Really? Lizzie. Okay. Yep. And anyway, I had a great time and did that for several years.

But I knew it was not my forever thing. I knew that long term, I had. I had a business itch that I needed to scratch. Okay. Did you tell Lizzie, was she any good? Yes. She was wonderful. She, you know, she ended up going to Salamanca for four or five months to try to become fluent. You'll have to ask her if she had Senora Crawford.

I'm fairly certain she did. I'll ask her. Yeah, she just had a baby last week. Congratulations. Little Charlie. How many? Many? Does she have? Is that her first? She's got two. Okay. That's congratulations. Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you. I'll definitely ask her. I'll talk to her tonight.

Okay. So that makes total sense with little babies, young children, not to be flying to Canada. You know, I mean, I get it. It's just so darn hard to manage all that stuff. But I think, you know, you managed it by becoming a local teacher. Right. And my husband was, at the time, he was on the track to become a part. partner at a law firm at the Whitech firm. And so he had something that I knew was a long, like I wasn't sure with our family situation, what my, like if I was going to be part-time. So being on their schedule just made more sense for us, you know. Yeah. I will say I did try before I went into the school system. I got my real estate license.

And I held one open house. And it was on a Saturday or a Sunday. And William, I came home and he goes, this is not going to work. I left him with three little kids and the third baby and everything. He's like, weekends are not going to work this way. It's not going to be good for us. So I was like, okay. It's another profession without hours.

You'd be great at it, though. Well, it was not meant to be. So, yeah. So teaching was good and it held, it kept me. It was a creative outlet. I had to sell to the kids because I had to keep them engaged. I got to craft the curriculum and it was fun. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't, I look back on it very fondly.

Good, good, good. I tried to sell a house one time for sale by owner because I was going to save the commission, you know. This was our first house and I was selling it. And the first guy comes by and he's like, how long you have the house? I'm like, four years. He goes, what's the school district? I'm like Christ's church I guess I mean I really

That was one question and I was out That's so much information I knew So I've always used agents since then That's great Yeah Okay so now Now the children are old enough That you're going to start your own agency

Or are you working for somebody At that point I wanted to start something thing. And I actually was thinking of starting a nonprofit, and I was going to do it with someone who was in the nonprofit space. She's since moved to Idaho, I think, no, North Dakota. But anyway, William, he's been a big influence in my life. I mean, you have influences in your life. William has been a really good one, a very strong one. I like to call him water. Water will find a way up, around, down, under. It will not be stopped. And so anyway, he said, really,

if you're going to start something, you should start at for a profit. Because it's going to be the same amount of work either way. I can hear him saying that. Yeah. So hence, I decided to start a business because I thought about what am I really good at. I love to read. I love to write. I love to share important stories. And I love business. So in there felt like PR. And so that's where I started. Now, I know you and I've talked about where we are today. It's different. But where I started was leveraging the skills that Marion had, not the team. And but I, so I went to the only woman that I knew growing up who had a job, who had a career.

Yeah. Um, was Sandy Lening. And she had her PR firm and she was at, uh, smoke PR with, it was Lening Smoke. with, it was Lening Smoke, and I ended up joining them as a partner. And for lots of reasons, we just weren't exactly eye to eye on exactly what we wanted out of our businesses. So we ended up parting ways. But it was a great thing to see what I, you know, what some of the businesses look like.

Great experience. But then started Crawford with the intent, we called it, at the time, it was called Crawford Strategy. and the reason it was called Crawford's strategy was because we wanted to be a part of the strategy of the business. We wanted to be able to sit with folks and help them work through, here are the business goals, and here's the strategy to get there from a communications standpoint. Very quickly, my background in PR was not enough. The folks I was working with would say, well, back in the day, they would say,

am I supposed to be doing this social media thing? And I was like, yes, and we can help. help with that. And so, and then websites and all of that. So quickly, I found the need to engage and hire others. So I started building a team. And within, I would say, three years, we had, well, the very first year we got one client that grew from, it was Caramont Health in Gastonia. And thank you, Rowena, for having faith in us. And she's had faith in us at three different hospitals. So I'm really appreciative of that. But she gave us an opportunity to do one thing, and that turned into another.

And very quickly it turned into basically an outsourced marketing and PR department for her, or for the hospital. And we even had an employee on site there. Then later at Mission, we did the same thing. So those clients allowed me to put a team in place because it had the revenue to do so that brought far more than just PR. So very quickly, within the first three years, we were offering full service, but I will tell you that over the years, we've been adding depth to the bench and real expertise. And today, I mean, I'm so excited about it because I've got a president that I've just recently hired. He joined a little over a year ago. He was October of 23. So he became president in December of this past year.

And he's amazing. Bryant Lambert. And then he came from EP. So he was 13 years there, which is a big agency. So he was in New York all the time. He's dealt with big clients. Our creative director, we hired from Austin, Texas, from an agency, GSD&M. So he's bringing a level of creative.

I mean, he did Tyson Chicken and Southwest Airlines, big stuff. And it's awesome to see this kind of what happens. when you put these people. And then we just got this woman, not got, we just were able to bring Carissa on board from Dentsu, which is, again, like a massive agency. She was based out of Atlanta, but COVID brought her here in 2020. Yeah.

How fortunate for us. And so we were able to bring her on board. It's changed the game. I mean, it changes the game. So suddenly when we're in these conversations with prospects, we have a real, just deep talent bench. that we've just not had before. And it's fun.

It's exciting. We have a head of strategy, client strategy. We've never had that. We've put her in place end of last year. And we've just added another member to her team. And so we are finally at a, what I would say is like truly firing on all cylinders as far as the creative, the media, all of that advertising side. And PR is a big piece of that. But it's funny.

It's not where we, we're not. we started. Right, right. Well, we talked about a little bit earlier. I mean, it sounds like the place you've gotten to after these 15 years is you have your leaders in place. It's such a good feeling. Yeah. And now you can trust them to run with their area. And I guess you can be more strategic and kind of do whatever you want. But I mean, it's, it's been so much fun to try to find people who are better and successfully find people who are better. than I am at what they do so I can let them, I get out of the way and just my job is to support them and their success. And when they bring the, here's the opportunity.

I mean, it is amazing what has come as a result of that. It is truly amazing. You know, T. Hooper has been a great business person in Greenville, multiple businesses, and he told me a long time ago. He says, the fund starts when you get all of your leaders in place. Yes. then you can really do something. Until then, everyone's kind of in a mad scramble, you know, maybe not in your case, but in a lot of cases...

It has been a mad scramble. I'll tell you, I am not going to lie. It has been a mad scramble. I wasn't accusatory, but I mean, once you get someone who really can run a creative group and bring people with them and, you know, make it all happen. Yeah, it truly is, it's amazing. So 15 years later, you've got to this point, what's going to happen, like in five years, what's it going to look like.

Well, in five years, I am not going to be retired, but I will likely be working more out of the office than in the office because everyone's going to be running the show and I'm going to be along for the ride, but I never want to lose touch. I mean, I'm having too much fun. I'm still very, I'm still involved with clients, not. all and thank Bryant's role in addition to being president he came in as head of client relations and he is so good at that and to have someone who cares about their relationships as much as I have is amazing because that's just been my every single one has been like a dear soul friend to me

I mean a long long time ago I learned from Sandy Lenning that it's important that you think of your clients as friends because you want to be working with them for a long time and you want them to be a friend and it's true and I am friends with a lot of these folks and so those that I still work with are good friends and also long I mean we've got clients for 12 years 13 years it's great yeah it's fun well give me a flavor for like what the ideal clients look like it's so interesting that you ask that they are so buried I'll give you some of our current clients and tell you what we're doing. So it's very interesting. We have some areas of specialty. So higher ed is one where we're the agency of record for University of West Georgia. We have been, we have worked

with Southern Wesleyan University, Indiana Wesleyan, North Greenville University. So we really feel like we have an understanding of helping increase enrollment and all that sort of thing. working with United Community Bank for the last 12 years. I mean, that started as a conversation with my friend and client for a long time, Len Harton, as he was joining, he was going to become C-O-O at the time. And I just said, whatever I can do to help. And honestly, that's how I felt. Like, listening to the opportunity, I said, I'm happy to help in any way, shape, or form.

Well, that has turned into a very long-standing relationship where we have, done work. I mean, they've acquired 12 organizations over the last 13 years, and we've been a part of that. You know, M&A, we do a lot with M&A and branding. So when healthcare, similar, we're big in the healthcare. So like Mission Health had one hospital when we started working with them, and then during the time we worked together, they acquired, there were six flag, six hospitals. So we had to assimilate the brands together, similarly with United. So doing all that communication. to the stakeholders and doing all the branding and assimilating that, that's a real sweet spot. But right now, like, we're working with nothing bun cakes, doing production, TV productions,

which we've never had an opportunity to do with them before. This is doing all of their marketing materials for their franchises and their collateral. So we help them with their, you know, revise their logo and front of house experience, customer experience. Yeah. Really varied. I mean, all over the map. But I will say the financial services really, I mean, long history, health care,

long history, higher ed long history, and food and Bev is growing. Okay. So we're excited about that. But the area that we are really good at is, I would say, we work with you to make sure we've positioned your brand well. And then we come up with the creative campaigns that bring. bring it to life for the audience that you need to reach. And then we are great now, especially with our team, on the media front of making sure it gets

to the right place. And then we amplify it all with PR. So it's like a pretty, it's really fun. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was very hard for people to come up with that thing that describes what they do, you know, whatever that positioning is.

and I have to always think about like Volvo. Yeah. Safety, you know, Michelin is safety also, I suppose. So we're momentum makers. Yeah. That's what ours is. Yeah. But that's what we do.

That's what you call it what you do. Yeah, we're momentum makers. I mean, because we're here to help build momentum for the brand. Yeah. And it looks different across all the clients, but we build momentum. You figure out what you have to do to create that momentum. Mm-hmm. That's it.

Yeah. That's good. That's good. And Michelin, that's another one. So this is a totally different one. Yeah. had a need to create a culture of health, you think about they have, I don't know how many, 18,000, I don't know how many covered lives in North America, but all of their covered lives

with health insurance in North America needed to be communicated with in a way that they would be engaged with their benefits. Well, they came to us, I think seven years ago, and we have been working with them ever since, and we've brought everything from paper to digital, and we've had a really great experience. I mean, they've been an amazing client. and an opportunity to really communicate and create an engagement on their benefits. That's not what you would expect from a typical ad agency, but it is a very important business challenge, and we're creating momentum on the front of their employee engagement and health.

So that's, it's like how can we help you in your business by bringing momentum to the table? There's no business that doesn't need momentum. Right, I agree. I think that's a great slogan or positioning, yeah. positioning. Yeah, I'm a big believer in it. I have a hard time figuring out for myself from my own company. So I just, I try, but maybe I should come to you for some help. Come on. Friends and family, right. Okay. And so five years from now, it's gotten stronger, bigger, better. You pull back a little bit

in terms of being there all the time. You're not going to be on that exercise machine, right? I have three of those. The treadmill does? Yeah, you stand on them, right, and you go on a computer? Yeah. I have a treadmill. I walk miles while I work. Do you track the steps? Oh, it does right there for me, yeah.

So what are you doing today? How many steps? Depends on how many meetings I have. If I'm just working, like no meetings, which is hardly over the case. Sometimes I can walk six miles. Okay. I mean, because I'm not walking fast. Right.

But just walking while I work as opposed to sitting while I work. Yeah. I think it's great. I have one at home at the far. The office. Yeah. I love it. They're not that expensive.

Yeah. Interesting. Maybe I need one. They're great. Yeah. You just have, it's a mentality shift from sitting to standing and walking. I'd rather walk than stand. I saw a guy one time at, I went to Canyon Ranch, which some people call a fat farm,

but I went out there. And the guy who ran the place, I went to his office, and he had a standing desk with his, his laptop and all that stuff. And then he had a beautiful, like, lazy boy kind of chair sitting there. I said, how do you decide which one to do? And he goes, well, I have a rule. He goes, if I'm reading, I can sit down. Right.

Like a book or something. He goes, but if I want to do email or talk on the phone, I got to stand up. That's it. I love that. That's a great rule of thumb. So let's keep going because it's a great story. I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

It's a lot of fun. You've had the added challenge of having to deal with raising children and stuff. in the middle of all this, you know. Let me tell you, let me tell you the benefit. So I'm going to be honest, there were a lot of tears that I have shed through the years

when I missed a game or I missed a lot, I missed a lot of things. And if it hadn't been for William Crawford saying, your kids are going to be fine. They're never going to remember that you can get that game.

They will know that you came to some games and that is what is important and you cared and you loved them and all that. But he had such a good perspective that I did not have. So he was huge. because I was very, I had a lot of guilt, a lot of mom guilt. And then my mother-in-law was amazing.

She's lived with us since her, since William's dad passed away in 03. I think it was 03, yeah. And so she took care of the kids. I had a nanny in the afternoons to pick them up and everything and run them here and there. But nana was always there, always. So in the summertime, there was an extra set of eyes. there was that stability factor. And between Nana and William is amazing.

And now, guess what? I have one of my children works with me. And she's moving in a new business with me, which is exciting. And then the other one works for a branding company in town. And we had a meeting yesterday, the three of us, McCoy in Denver, Brawley at his office, me at my office. And my other daughter, who works at the Denver Rescue Mission, walked by and said, do you guys get to do this all the time?

And this is not fair. But it's awesome. It's great. So, yes, it was worth it. For anybody out there who might be a working mom who feels guilty, it just is amazing. The girls in particular say we're really glad that you were able to stick it out because you've given us a model for what it could look like, which, you know, both models are good. And every model is different for every family, but I enjoy what I do. And I just am glad I got to do it, but I needed that encouragement from William along the way because there was some, it was a lot of guilt sometimes.

Well, you know, it's a brain will play tricks on you sometimes, but I think it's good to talk to other people and try to figure it out because I believe that you're doing the right thing. And, you know, sometimes people might believe something, some, let's say an old wife's tale kind of thing, like you've got to go to every game. of your kid. And, of course, I didn't do that either. And my thing was, I have stuff I'm trying to do. And you have stuff you're trying to do. Right. You're trying to win your middle school soccer game.

I'm trying to build this business over here and win this account. And it doesn't mean I don't love you. Right. And I would tell them that because I didn't go to a lot of it. And I also said, again, I don't want to besmirch anymore, but I saw other people literally just give up everything to go to every eighth grade soccer game. I'm like, I don't know if that's a great example. Yeah, there's a balance.

Yeah, it's a balance. Yeah, and I will say the first time I had, like, I finally, one day I hired an assistant the first several years. I did it all like you and I were talking about that before. And, you know, you're trying to, I was trying to run all these departments. I didn't have a lot of people. And finally I hired an assistant. It was amazing.

Oh, my gosh, it changed the game for me. But I remember the first time I was supposed to deliver oranges or something to some field somewhere. And I was like, there is no way I'm going to make it. I've got these, all these things. And she said, I've got it. I'll do it. I was like, thank the Lord. Thank you.

And I mean, you know, it was great. The kids didn't know. They didn't care if I brought the oranges or not. The oranges are, don't we? I'm not going to know. Well, this is wonderful. Let me ask you some really, really important questions. Okay.

I'm here. AI. How are you using like GROC or ChatGTPT in your world? You know, it's interesting. It is such a great place to start a project. Yeah. And we have, we tried for a little bit to come up with a formal, like, approach. And it's changing so fast that any formal approach we got was like out of date. So basically, we're never going to ever use something that is out of AI that is that we don't say this is AI. So when we have it on social, if we used anything that was created with AI, it has a tag that says that.

So we are clear about that. But we, it's a great brainstorming. Yeah. It's such a, it's cool. Now, here's the thing. So you have a human who's been working with a client for 12 years. The human has a lot of information. that unless you know that it's not going to be, you can't, the input into the AI is as valuable as what you get out.

Yeah. So you have to have the information that you can put in to actually get relevant information back out. Yeah. So. Yeah. I agree with you, though. I mean, I have the hardest time with a blank piece of paper. Mm.

But if I can tell, you know, AI or GROC, I can say, okay, it's a regional hospital in South Carolina. You know, it's been around this many years. Here's the biggest challenge. Give me five bullet points. You know, all of a sudden I got something. Yep. Yep. It's a great starting point.

You know, and so I think I'm kind of like you. I don't want to like pretend like it's delivering my work. But it is a good starting point. And if people aren't using it and learning about it every day a little bit, they're going to be way behind. Oh, my goodness. Well, and let me take it out of the workplace. for a minute and into a personal situation.

So there's an area of my life that I'm not good at, and that is interior design. And we're renovating a kitchen. And I went and put in, could you develop a picture for me of a kitchen with brick pavers on the floor, wooden beams on the ceiling, wooden countertops, and this color cabinets and these lights and da-da-da-da. Yeah. Created a picture. Unbelievable. I give it to the builder. I'm like, this is the look and feel I'm going for. I mean, I could never have done that a year ago.

Right. I mean, because it wasn't there. Yeah. It's incredible. Incredible. Yeah. It's getting better by the week. But I will say this was about a year ago.

We were using AI to help us develop some images for a campaign. And I looked at one and I said, oh, does anyone see a problem with this one? And it was a shopkeeper of an ice cream shop and a child. and basically she's sitting down on the floor and you don't do food and floor at the same time and I was like, you're in a food situation, there's a floor, we're not going to have food on the floor together. We're going to have to adjust that.

But so, you know, but that's a year ago. I bet it wouldn't do that today. Probably not, but you can find little things. Very often you'll see that there'll be too many fingers. Like the time there's six fingers, you know, of all these things. That's funny. They'll fix that. But it is becoming more and more a part of what we do to the point where it really is, it's so helpful, but almost a little scary, just to be honest.

Yeah. It's really smart. Keep an eye on it. You know what it's going to do. Exactly. Well, back to an old school question from your English major days. What's your favorite book? All right.

Well, let's talk for work first. The most influential book I've read is it was good, great, by Jim Collins. And it changed the game for me because, first, when I started my business, I did not know how important it was. Even though I had played team sports and I knew how important a team was, I kept thinking I could do all the work. I just needed to hire people and they would do this, this and this. But I didn't realize we needed to perform as a team. And I read that book and I was like, duh. it changed everything.

The whole way we operated, I mean, we created a culture of longevity as opposed to we had this turn and burn before. So our goal is to keep people and to really pour into them and help, because then they're more valuable to the clients, to us,

but also it's a more fun place to be. We know each other, we care about each other. Anyway, so that was a good one. I personally love mysteries. I've been reading mysteries since I was young. So, you know, and today, like a espionage, I wish there was a new Robert Ludlam kind of books out, you know, because I've read a lot of those, Ken Follett, that sort of thing. So. High of the needle. I remember that one. Yeah. How about a, uh, uh, uh, uh, Clavel,

she reads like Noble House and, no, there, uh, maybe I should. They're, there, they're, there, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, you know, Shogun, Noble House, Tai Pan, King Rat is one of my favorites. Okay. You might like King Rat. King Rat is about a man in the Taipei prison in Singapore. Okay.

It was built for 400 people. Uh-huh. And the Chinese had taken over Singapore, I guess during World War II. I don't know. And they had so many prisoners. They had to just slam them all in this prison. They had like 2,500 prisoners. in a 400 prison thing.

Goodness. So many that you almost couldn't even have guards in there. It was just like just put him in there. And there was this one guy, they call him the King Rat, who no matter what they did to him or what happened, he always came out on top. He would have clean sheets, a nice thing. He was just like a master trader with favors and stuff.

Interesting. Oh, it's fascinating. And it's not too long, but I would recommend that book. Okay. King Rat. I'll have to make a book club. Yes. I'll give you one.

You give me one. All right. I love that. I need to think about something newer. I read so many business books because I feel like I'm still just voraciously trying to make sure I'm the best I can be. Right now I'm reading one called How Leaders Learn. It was recommended to me by a client, Lynn Harton, and it's great. David Novak, and he has a podcast and it's good.

But I recommend it. Good. Okay. If you want a business book. I got it. How leaders learn. I'll put it in the stack with the rest of them. Okay.

I've got so many books. Okay. Back, English major again, favorite word? I would say hope. Hope, okay. Wonderful. Wonderful. And favorite band.

That was tough. I mean, the Rolling Stones, I love, and I saw them in New York, and that was great. Would that be, was it Madison Square Garden? No, it was it. in Shea Stadium. Shea Stadium. It was amazing. I bet.

I bet that place was electric. But the Avet Brothers in Colorado, the Red Rocks. Oh, that's hard to beat too. Yeah, I bet. I haven't done that yet. I need to do that. It's a very different vibe. Yeah.

Smells funny out there, doesn't it? That's what I hear. A little bit like a skunk. Yeah, like a skunk. And then there's anything, you want to promote your business or you want to promote anything at all? This is the time to do it. Well, I would just say the business is great.

We're excited from a promotional standpoint. I don't really know what I want to promote. Okay. Well, Crawford Strategies is a And we're not strategy anymore. So we're Crawford. Just Crawford. We dropped strategy because, listen, you called

it Crawford Strategies, and it was everyone did that. And so we dropped strategy because it was just with a why. And so we said, you know what, no one seems to get that. We're going to be just Crawford. And we are an agency, an ad agency that does great creative, and we've got some killer talent, and we're excited to help. Where's headquarters these days? Headquarters is over on Macbee and the building with the county bank. Yes. You know, right there, yeah. But we have team members in Raleigh and

Charleston and Denver, so we're not limited to headquarters, but we do love to work in person together. We feel like we're more creative that way. Good. Well, I'm happy for you, proud of you. Thank you. Thanks for coming out today. Oh, my gosh. Are we already finished?

Well, I mean, we've got anything else you'd like to say? No, I just think this has gone by so fast. It's been so much fun. We normally don't talk this long at a cocktail party. That's so true. Like, hey, how are you? Fine. Do you hunt?

Yeah, I'll hunt. Okay. I'll come down there and shoot some quail or whatever you all got. All right. Quail, turkey, deer. I killed five deer last year. Yeah, plenty of deer, I bet. I got to learn how to shoot a bow.

So we're going to talk about that. How big is the farm? Well, the farm is a little over 500 acres. It's got an old farmhouse, 1850s farmhouse that we're in the process of fixing up. So that's the one we're putting in the new kitchen for. but it's great. We have a barn, which is where we do most of our gatherings. And we have a pond and a duck impoundment, so we hunt ducks down there.

And it's great. It's wonderful. We just love being outside. A lot of hiking. What is the commute time? 45 minutes. Okay. Well, actually, in the last year, Greenville has grown noticeably, and traffic has slowed down noticeably.

if I leave at a certain time. So I've now had to start timing when I leave. Otherwise, it's an hour. Which, you know, that's, Greenville just has grown. Yeah. Well, yeah, I'd love to come down to the farm, catch a fish or shoot a turkey. There's a lot. Broly cut of fish like this size in the, two of them.

Yeah. There's some big fish. I'll bring my instrument down there and jammed with the cello man. Yeah, we're going to have a concert actually in the barn. I don't have the date, but if I get you the date, that'd be a fun thing to come down. We need to get you on that list. We're having a concert in the barn. Okay.

I don't remember all the details. Katie Day is helping organize it. I think we're going to have a couple of different instruments there. It would be fun. I love to, yeah. I want to talk to Jennifer and put it on a social calendar. I love it. I wear my camo.

Yeah. Oh, that's great. Well, thank you again. No, thanks for having me. been delightful we could probably talk another hour but i could this is so fun i know i just that's why i asked you to come i knew you'd enjoy it thank you thank you thanks a lot of fun okay