Noob School - Episode 25: Don't Abandon your Passions—Just Go into Sales with Bill Keating

Episode Date: November 26, 2021

Bill Keating is in digital ad sales for some brands you may have heard of in the sports world: NBC Sports, Sports Illustrated, Golf Magazine, and many more. You know, just those few small companies. How Bill got there is the real story, especially considering that he started out on Wall Street in a job that had nothing to do with sales. His journey is a great lesson on why you shouldn't abandon your passions and struggle through a job that doesn't excite you. Stick with what you love! Follow John on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/johnsterling_ Facebook: facebook.com/johnsterlingsales Twitter: twitter.com/johnsterling_ TikTok: tiktok.com/@johnsterling_

All right. Well, welcome back to Noob School. This is where we interview great salespeople, successful business folks that started in sales. And we back them up to the beginning and get them to tell a story of how they got started and what they did to be successful, what mistakes they made along the way, trying to help you figure this out as you get started in sales. So today, I've got a gentleman here, Bill Keating. I've known Bill since, gosh, since he was in college with my brother Dan, South Carolina, and I'll just say, without going any detail of those college years, Bill has matured nicely over the years. There's no more land-based chicken fights. So, Bill, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me, John. This is great. Yeah.

Well, let's get right to it. I know I'll just give the group a little flavor here. I mean, Bill from South Carolina, went into marketing, advertising, and eventually digital advertising, right? Digital advertising. With some names that they'll recommend, that they'll remember. NBC Sports Illustrated, ESPN, Golf Magazine, to name a few. So Bill loves sports and love selling and kind of put those two together

and has had a remarkable career. So tell us, Bill, about how you got started in sales after college. Great. What that story looks like. Yeah, it's actually interesting because I didn't start out in the sports field. I didn't start out in the sales field. You know, kind of the general, I grew up in Connecticut, you know, most of my parents' friends, you know, lived and worked in the New York City area.

So kind of the general progression was graduate, go to New York City. get a job, but because my dad was in Wall Street, it was kind of like jump right into Wall Street. So I took my first job out of school was with Bear Stearns. And so on the Wall Street side of things, not anything to do with sales, worked there for about four years, switched over to a company called Soundview Financial, which was over-the-counter trading, and realized along the way, while the dollars and cents were good on the Wall Street side, obviously. It wasn't a passion play for me. I always wanted to be, you know, I was fortunate enough to work a little bit at Sports Illustrated during my college years. My sister worked there.

So I kind of pivoted and said, I want to get out of Wall Street. And I want to, and I didn't like being chained to a desk. I wanted to be out in front of people. So decided I wanted to get into advertising, decided I want to start and look at, you know, some of the bigger brands. Those were, as you said, Sports Illustrated, ESPN of the district. So started out at Time Inc., which is no longer in existence, but some of the greatest magazines ever, people, Sports Illustrated in style. My passion for that was to get either to the Sports Illustrated side of things or the golf side of things, and I was lucky enough to work in both.

Okay. So, but the other kind of pivot point for me was these are brands that were known for television and magazines. I kind of had the vision and wanted to work on the digital side of things because I knew that the websites were going to be a critical part of the business structure moving forward. So how did you know that? Well, you know, it was interesting because from a revenue standpoint, they weren't. Nothing.

You know, these were, but from the, you know, the downstream, seeing what they were going to mean into the business structures and the revenue models. I always was interested in that. And it's funny because, you know, we were, we being the digital side, were a rounding error compared to these other big revenue drivers. But we were the shiny new toys. So we were the things that people were talking about, targeted advertising and, you know, data and stuff like that.

And which it's interesting because to this day, no it's no longer the shiny new toy it's the relevant cement to the business right right so that you have to have um so now you 20 years ago it was like wow won't it be interesting when we can talk about how advertisers is going to reach you directly and and what that's going to mean to you now it's all data driven and it's there's accountability in advertising which there wasn't before so it's it's It's been cool to see the evolution of how it's changed and how now digital is at the forefront. You know, I'm still a huge proponent of print, believe it or not, which a lot of people think print is dead, which I don't think it ever will be.

But and then television, television and cable. I mean, that's a, and it's got to the point now where everything kind of works in concert instead of everybody fighting for it. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. So two things already, you know, for the news. one is you know you took what looked like a normal very good path to go to Wall Street.

Yeah. Because that was a path that you'd seen before with your dad and with other friends, I'm sure, and you know how successful it's going to be financially, but you just didn't like it. Right. And you're smart enough to switch to something that you did like, which is sports publications, things like that. So that's a good thing. I mean, that's the thing we preach, and it's in this, in the Noob's book is, man, if you, if you haven't started yet down in your business career, and you don't know exactly kind of what area you want to be in, you need to figure that out before you just go.

So, well, I got a job at the bank, so, you know, I'm going to do that. Well, and then you get, you can get into a stage where you wake up 20 years later. And, yeah, you're making good money. You may be happy in some form or fashion, but you're frustrated. or you feel like you've been painted in a corner, which again, I'd be the first to say, I've got tons of really successful people who've made a great career on Wall Street and are happy as can be. And I just realized it wasn't for me.

Right. And I'm glad I made that change. Some people at a time would have called me a horse's ass, which I've been called words, but that's that, you know, that's the gist of it, is being able to kind of say, this is a good field for me and and it was it's always the the sports side of it's interesting because that's glamorous and it's fun and you're going to games and events but at the end of the day it was always about being a salesman and and that's what i like to do i like to sell i like to interact with clients and most of all i like to you know kind of service clients needs from point a to point z and and you know see

see their marketing initiatives and their business initiatives come to fruition. It's just for our ratification here, I mean, if you're selling for ESPN or, you know, golf magazine or NBC Sports, I mean, your customers and your prospects are amassing at these wonderful events. You're giving them tickets and private box and stuff. And so that's kind of where you're doing a lot of your selling. Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's great. It's, you know, that, aspect of it is it's it's relationship building and you can you know it's easy to pick up the phone and say hey it's bill i'm calling from golf magazine or golf channel and people know what that is yeah i've also worked in elements or or with brands that they don't know who you are or what you do and

that's a whole that's a that's a better challenge or you know it's better for the nobs that are coming into it that say it's not all going to be glitz and glamour it's there you're going to have to make cold calls to people you don't know but alone the way, you're building those relationships with clients directly, with agencies and stuff like that. So you just kind of build it up over the course of your career. Absolutely. And with the exception of your initial CERT first years, you have been in the same industry for what, 20 years? 20, yeah, 20. 20. So those things, those people, and you know, we've talked about this before with the group, those people that, you know, might have been your age or a few years older when you started talking to

them are now plus 15 or 20 years. And they're the boss now. Totally. Right? Yeah. So, old Charlie, you're hanging around with, you know, now he's like making the decision. Yeah, exactly.

And it's great. They're running an agency or they've spun off and done something that's outside their realm, but they tied back to, hey, we had a good working relationship. And then that's where the networking really comes in. And that's where the company I'm working for today, basis technologies, is a total departure from what I was doing before. Not in that I'm still selling. It's still digital advertising sales.

It's tied to that. But it's not picking up the phone and saying, hey, it's ESPN, which everybody knows. It's, let me tell you about what I'm bringing to the table for your brand or your company. And they say, all right, well, Bill, we have a work in relationships. So I know you're not just, you know, calling me just for fun. You're calling me for a tangible business reason. Yeah, yeah, I agree. that's the other thing I wanted to mention from what you said you had two jewels already is you know early on in your career

you were willing to jump to the digital advertising part of the business which was very small and unproven and probably you know people weren't making as much money in that area because you saw so you saw technology coming you're probably young enough where you saw you know the computer adoption and all that stuff so that's another thing they should think about is in their industry, kind of once they're established and kind of know what they're doing, what's coming down the road that they can jump in and be a part of. Yeah. And I look at, I have a Sonazoo senior at University of South Carolina and he's a supply chain major, which is amazing to me. I mean, he actually sent me yesterday a list of the companies that he's targeting. Yeah. You know, and they're all those same brands. Maybe it's not the ESPNs and the Sports Illustrated

of the world, but it's the Boeing's and the Amazon's and stuff like that, where supply chain is a major part of the, you know, they're all handcuffed it with it now because of COVID. But so it's cool. You know, I give him a lot of credit because he's got that vision to what's coming. And 20 years ago was the guys or the noobs that were coders and that, you know, and started to get involved in that. And now that's such a big part of industry that you can write your own ticket. Yeah.

We all got spoiled, too, with the Amazon, man. You hit the button and it came the afternoon. Yeah, yeah. You kind of spoiled all that's not happening anymore. Exactly. I think half of my stuff just doesn't show up and I forget I ordered it. I mean, I don't know what's happening. Well, it's funny to see, you know, being in business in general,

different parts of everybody's being, you know, touched by it. My wife works, you know, she's in the printing world. And there's, she's literally waiting on shit. that are coming into the port of Los Angeles that have these printers and stuff like that. And then I was on a conversation the other day with a client of mine who's still very involved in the golf industry.

And that, you know, the supply chain to manufacturers and all that stuff is totally changing the landscape of what their holiday buying means and how they're gonna map out their budgets for the year. So it's interesting. And it's actually cool, again, back on the sales side, to get a snapshot of, hey, what is it? this mean for your business and how can I help you through these tough times you know what what was how

can we all get through COVID together now becomes how can we help out help each other out through the residual effects yeah that's good can you tell us a client story like one of your big clients how you helped them yeah you know um that usually what's happened in and it's it's very relatable to my my current role which is with basis technologies is you have to go through a discovery phase with clients and you have to sit down with them. You may understand their business. You know what they do on a surface level,

but you don't know what their pain points are and what you can solve for. So in digital advertising and digital marketing, it's where are you finding your audience, but more importantly, where are you not finding your audience? And how can we help you with that? So that's the kind of stuff where, you know, I won't give you. you a client specific, but I'll just say that I find that very rewarding to sit down across with somebody and say, how can my business help your business? How can I not make you look smart,

but continue to make you look smart internally? Because that back to the relationships is, then you can say, hey, we did this. Doesn't matter, insert company here. This is where we built something together. Yeah, that's beautiful. Well, it's a common theme bill with successful salespeople is they're trying to find out what the customer's problem is and solve it. As opposed to someone who says, well, it's nice to meet you. Let me tell you a little bit about what we do. Yeah. I mean, nobody wants to hear it. Right. They don't care what you do. They care about it. You can solve your problem. Right. And it's the balance. And you talk about it. The book for sure is the listening, you know, and I will tell you just a funny quick story. I was in a, and this is, this is great for

the noobs because I remember this is 20 years ago and I was sitting with a guy who was a client in an agency in Boston and he was a buddy of mine so I was I was you know sitting in his office he said excuse me you mind if I take this calling got on this call and he was kind of like rolling his eyes and I could tell there was a seller on the other end and this guy was a good enough friend of mine that he hung up the phone after you know three or four minutes and he goes Jesus what do you guys get paid by the word and that always stuck in my head of don't just just, ugh, don't, you know, don't dump truck them and just give them everything that you have. Say, let me hear about your business first.

Let me understand about it. You're there to sell, so you do have to sprinkle the infield with good tidbits, but it doesn't have to be like, let me sell you my entire company at one fell swoop. It would be a ground rule double. Exactly. Texas League. Exactly. So give us some examples of things that.

you have seen or done little mistakes along the way that you would tell the nobs not to do. So, you know, I think you have to do yourself the favor of giving yourself time to grow into a job or grow into a role or a company or whatever. But at the same time, pick out the spots, know where the potholes are, know where the bad people are, the people that are going to slow you down the cancers in an organization, obviously steer clear of them. I'm a big advocate in positivity. If you're a positive part to any culture, it just permeates. And that's what the company I'm with now, I've worked with a lot of big brands.

And you can ride the wave of a brand and what it means and stuff like that. but it's the culture that's so much more important. And if you know that the people you're working with are rowing in the same direction, that's a big deal. And it helps you wake up every morning and say, I want to go to work and I want to make this work. So I'd say that. And then the other part to that is, you know, recognize when you're not always going to be working for the best woman or the best guy.

You know, you've got to realize when there are bad bosses out there, there's bad organizations out there. There's instances where you can affect that culture. There's sometimes when you can't. And you've got to, you know, look downstream a little bit, know if this is something that's good for me or if it's bad for me. Yeah. And act on that.

And have that be a trigger to how you want to steer your career. Yeah. And I would, I'd phrase that in my words, my experience, particularly when I was in my 20s, is I always thought everything ought to be perfect all the time. Right. You know, and if it wasn't, then I was going to be mad about it and, you know, and just have a little grump on.

Yeah. And that doesn't help anything. Right. You just got to stay positive no matter what. Yeah. And maybe you'll bring everyone up with you. Yeah. But it's, I mean, how weird would it be if we all worked at a place where everything was just

perfect all the time? Right. Right. Right. And I think you've got to figure out how you're going to fit in that culture. I've worked with people who their whole MO is to, run around with their hair on fire and screaming and cursing and and and that's not my vibe. That's not what I try to put out there. I try to be a little bit more level-headed.

You know, sometimes fortunately or unfortunately, those people make their way up because that's the culture of either the industry or the place you're working. But, you know, you just got to kind of pick your path, pick your, you know, your temperament. And I think if it is positive, you know, especially with younger people in an organization. I love, I think, you know, you put a piece of content out last week that said, there is no age. It doesn't matter if you're working, you know, with somebody who's 20 years older or 20 years younger. You're working together.

So, you know, see that and get the good that you can get out of them, push away the bad, et cetera. So I think that's a good lesson for the noobs. I agree. I totally agree. you know, attitude is a choice, personal choice. Yeah. And we shouldn't expect the world to be perfect. It's not going to be perfect all the time.

Especially in business because there's so many ebbs and flows. Yeah, the bigger the company, the more likely and all that stuff. I did have one story. There was a lady I went to see. I started to do it. We had our little company. We were profiling companies in the area that were doing well. There's one down in Gainesville, Georgia.

I went down there. She had about 20 people. I went two or three times because they were just doing well. They were selling some kind of. detector, some kind of detector for poison or something. I don't know what it was. I wouldn't pay attention to that part. But I was paying attention to their culture,

and they were all just happy, hey, how are you? I'm Frank, nice to meet you. What are you here for? I mean, they just were all so friendly and followed up. And I went to see the owner, Lillian. I said, Lillian, I just don't get it. Because we had kind of some grumps in our company. Yeah.

So everyone's here so, you know, happy and enthusiastic. She goes, well, this is how we do it. She goes, that's the kind of people we look for. Yeah. And when we hire them, we say, if you don't keep behaving like this, we're going to let you go. Right. And then we do. So you end up, you know, so that was her method.

Yeah. But most people don't do that. Well, and the other thing I'd say to that, John, is when you do have it, recognize how good it is because you don't always have it. So, you know, I'll use an example. When I was at, I was a golf magazine, it was probably 1995. And, you know, just the greatest group of sellers and people that were just, you know, it's a moment in time. You don't always get that. But, you know, you get 25 years away from that.

And you're like, man, that was a really. And now you see all those people have gone on to do different things. And it's just cool to watch because you got to remember, you're in this for the long haul, whether you're new to the industry, long time veteran in the industry. Those are those things that you amass throughout your career. You can draw from all the way. Yeah. Yeah. I would add to that that we've all had these moments when everything was going great,

got a great team, great market. And it's easy at that moment for the nubs to say, well, I think I'm going to find something better. Right. Yeah. And people will leave. The grass is always greener. They'll jump off of that train and they'll get over there. They're like, ooh.

Yeah. It's isn't so good. Yeah. It's hard to get, find it. Right. Well, it's, you know, and it works both ways because there are. companies when you're working at them, you think that that's the only thing in the world. But you do, you know, once you get outside, you can be like,

ah, this is a better place for me or a better, you know, situation for me. But so that's why I just think you always got to kind of have your, your feelers or your senses heightened to be like, can I help here? Is this a good thing for me? Is it a good thing for a company and an organization in general? Yeah, I agree. All right. This is great stuff.

Very important. Bill, what's your favorite word? You know, I'm going to have to, just because I've touched on a couple times here today, is positive. I think it's super critical to be positive. And that's in work, in life, in family. You know, it's because like you said, there's definitely a lot of lows out there. But you got to hold on to the high.

highs and just kind of try and breed that culture throughout, you know, throughout your own personality, and it'll transfer to other people. Yeah, I totally agree. And you've been that way since I met you back in college. I mean, seriously.

I mean, I remember meeting you and a lot of Dan's friends who I liked some of them too. But you stood out as someone who was just, you know, enthusiastic and kind of happy and positive. And so, you know, for the news, it's a, it's a, It's a pretty simple answer. You know, just look on the bright side.

Yeah. In every situation, and that's kind of what people want to be around. Buyers, colleagues, everyone. Yeah. I'm a firm believer in, you know, that old expression, nice guys finish last. I don't think that is the case. I agree.

Nice guys finish happy. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, let me, a basis technology is where you're with now. Big time company doing digital advertising. Will you give us a little spill on that? And maybe some of these people might need what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And it's fun because it's a new foray for me. You know, it's advertising technology. It's, you know, I've been kind of a traditional sponsorship seller. So this is a departure into ad tech, which is, you know, for a guy who's 50 plus years old, it's great to be exploring new things. But being able to apply my sponsorship and my relationships. And, you know, I give them a lot of credit for seeing them. You know, there's a, there's a lot of, you know, you could say, oh, well, you're painted in that corner, but you're painting that corner with a lot of relationships.

And like we talked about, a lot of institutional knowledge. So, but basis technologies, I mean, we just rebranded. It used to be called Centro. Just celebrated our 20th anniversary last week, 20 years of the company. It's a Chicago-based company, but we have strong presence in Denver, Dallas, New York, et cetera. So it's a national footprint that. that is also expanding internationally. And it's basically a hybrid at digital advertising agency.

So the four pillars of direct advertising, programmatic advertising, search and social, we can work with marketers, we can work with brands, we can work with agencies to do digital advertising placements across the entire ecosystem of the internet. So if a company needs digital advertising help, across the whole scheme things they should contact you. That's our thing. And again, it can be agency-wide. It can be brand-direct.

And a big thing, John, is as people are getting more knowledgeable in digital advertising, as people understand that they need to be on Facebook for social, for, you know, on Google for search and LinkedIn and so on and so forth, we have teams of experts who know that inside and out. So there's a faction of people who, you know, have other fish to fry and they want somebody else to do their digital advertising form, which is great. We have that managed service capability. There's also the people who have a big brand or big organization that they want to do it all in-house

and they want to, you know, have their hands on it. And that's something we do because we're a SaaS platform that has a platform that you can do all those four pillars directly. Okay, so you either provide the platform for them to manage it or you do the platform plus. Correct. Okay. Correct. The managed service component.

Good. Well, maybe some of these nobs might new job one day. It's a great industry to be in. I mean, you know, it's our, our CEO, Sean always says, I mean, we are the forefront of automation. And right now it's media automation, but it's, you know, the sky's the limit in terms of automation because that's where everything's going. And that's the fun thing is, like I said, 20 years ago, we were philosophizing about automation.

Now it's real. Now this stuff is, let me show you exactly who's looking at your advertising and how that can help your ROI. It's great. I love that. As a buyer, I love being able to see what I'm actually getting. Yeah. It's good.

Well, listen, you're real nice to be here today. Happy to be here. Thanks for having. I like being around you. You're always enthusiastic. Always have been. And so it's good for me too. Always love it.

Thanks for being here. Thank you, brother. Okay. Cheers. All right. Hey, is John here? Thanks for listening today. Please check out noobschool.org.

That's my website. That's where we have other videos and content that can help you get started in sales.