Noob School - Episode 73: The Journey to Success with Patrick Garner

Episode Date: June 5, 2023

John is joined by Patrick Garner on this episode of Noob School, to take you through his journey to a highly successful and sales career. From how he got started in the sales world, some best practices and tips to be in the state of mind to conquer any deal, you won't want to miss this one! I'm going to be sharing my secrets on all my social channels, but if you want them all at your fingertips, start with my book, Sales for Noobs: https://amzn.to/3tiaxsL Subscribe to our newsletter today: https://bit.ly/3Ned5kL #noobschool #salestraining #sales #training #entrepreneur #salestips #salesadvice

New School. Welcome back to Noob School. John Sterling here. I've got my good friend Patrick Garner here today. Welcome, Patrick. Hello. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Patrick, among other things, he's the first guest who's bigger than I am, which is unusual for the show. I bet. But you got me by at least an inch. You're 6.8, right? I am, yes, sir. Yeah, 6.8. So Patrick has become remarkably successful business person. and salesperson over the years. I know that because I have been friends with him for a while

and we went to the same training class for a while. So we kind of exchanged ideas every Friday morning for, what, four years or something? It was a long time, man. That was what you called a religion when we were going. That was a good stretch. That was awesome. The good people kind of discussing things. But let's back up to where you began.

I mean, most of our audience are people that are just getting started or want to get started in the sales profession. And so to take someone like you that's successful now and back them up and kind of watch that journey, hopefully they can learn from it. So I know you went to White Hampton High School here in Greenville. Yes, sir. And you must have played basketball and football. I played basketball through high school. And then they kind of talked me into playing a little football when I was kind of in college.

So it was pretty interesting. But you went from Wade Hampton to Clemson, right? I played basketball at Clemson, yes, sir, for Rick Barnes. And then I ended up, I figured out that I was, I had been babyed a little too much in high school, I never was told I did too much wrong, which we've all been there at certain points. And Coach Barnes was pretty tough. And when he found that weakness, he was a good knife turner at that point. So I was just a little immature at that point for that.

and ended up going to Furman. I played basketball and football at Furman. Football. Yes, sir. That must have been tough time management-wise. Very tough. I don't know that I want to put out over the loudspeaker my GPA at Furman, but I did get out of there.

You know what? The older you get, the less anyone to ask you your GPA. I would say thank God for that. I don't know how far I would have gotten, John, if that was the, you know, the big, a big determinant. But you actually had a, I mean, there was a crossover of, what, six to eight weeks between football and basketball practice? Right, yes, sir.

And so would you do both practices or just football until it was over and then switch? Yes, sir, just football until it was over. Yeah. And so my last, the last year I was there, I ended up, the last football game, I ended up breaking my thumb in half. The last game, just kind of a fluke thing. So I ended up missing that year in basketball. And just kind of, so it's kind of a bummer, but it is what it is.

I really enjoyed, I played for Bobby Johnson at Furman, and he was an amazing coach. And we just had an awesome group of guys, and I'm still in touch with a lot of those guys this day. And who was the basketball coach? At Furman. Yeah. His name is Larry Davis. Larry Davis, okay. Yes, sir.

Okay. Interesting. Well, a lot of salespeople, not all, but a lot of them were athletes. Yes, sir. You know, and I think that's, I think part of the reason they go into sales is because it allows you to continue to compete. You'll be number one in the group. You want to beach last year's W-2. I mean, you see that too? I do. I think that that's probably the downfall of a lot of salespeople as well. is that competition with others and goals that are set to numbers, I think is like a very slippery slope. Because what that causes or what that creates is you're never really satisfied.

Everybody sees themselves up on the podium with that number one trophy. Well, the problem is is when you actually get it. you know, like how fulfilling is it really because you're always trying to better. You know, like you always want to kind of one up yourself and one up others. Right. And I think a huge, huge issue, a lot of salespeople and I think professionals in general, they have this outcome that they feel their expectations of how awesome it's going to be to be number one or to be the guy or the girl.

you know, like that person. And you just, you work toward that. And then a lot of people, once they get there, it's a weird little thing that they don't think they deserve it. And all of a sudden your bank accounts where you thought you would think, oh, my God, I'm all set. This is unbelievable. My W2 is X.

And they have like what I would consider. It's called imposter syndrome. is that they're there, but the moment wasn't like they thought it would be. I know myself, when you and I were together a lot, I think I did talk about my goal to be kind of, a lot of people say on stage, right? If you're one of the top, our company is a worldwide company, and if you're on stage, that means you're one of the top salespeople in the world. And I had this expectation of what that would be like.

but when I reached that, I can remember to this day that was like kind of the most miserable weekend I've had in a long time just because you're sitting there like, okay, this is this is really cool on one hand, but what's next? And nobody thinks about what's next, which is why since then, that was such an unusual feeling to me that I've figured out through kind of, trial and error how to set goals that don't have numbers attached to them. You know, outcome, you know, like outcome-based goals. Yeah. Are very difficult because when you reach it, what do you do then?

What's the feeling? Because then you almost kind of, I felt empty inside. Yeah. Because I was like, well, you know, now what? Yeah. So, you know, so that's. So is your goal then a more of a. process thing where instead of saying, I want to do X, you're like, I am going to improve myself

every month with something. I think it's based, it's got to be based around momentum and it's got to be based around exactly what you said, your process. And you've got to look at kind of the five life categories, you and I just kind of off, off camera talked about them. And, you know, you've got relationships, finance, career, health and wellness, and personal development. If you take those as your five, what I've tried to do is create the goals within each one of those life categories and then try to build momentum in each life category because we've all met the Uber successful business person whose bank account looks amazing, but their life is somewhat in shambles.

Their health is bad or their relationships are a mess. They have no clue on how to build relationships that aren't built around, oh, I'm going to be the best, you know, and that just, it's not sustainable. People that go out and, you know, fill social media with this grind and drive and all these things, most of the time, and I would say 95% of the time, you don't see the crash and burn at the end of that. It's not sustainable. Nobody can post that.

Not sleeping and this whole mentality. Number one, if you really are building momentum each day and considering those five life categories, you don't have to grind. You don't have to burn yourself to the ground to be successful because you're going to gain momentum. and that momentum will really tell you where you, you know, where you can succeed the best. You know, your life will really kind of guide you at that point.

Yeah. But if you are just solely focused on being the best salesperson or being the, you know, the number one, whatever, and winning these awards or a W-2, the money part, that's maybe even the worst thing to think I want to make this amount of money because you've got to be very careful, especially those of us who did not grow up with a lot of money. You've got you deep down will find that you have money weakness. And when you get that money, it's very uncomfortable and you will find a way to lose it. Interesting. You know, it's like, you know, if you look up people that won the lottery, most of them are broke within a few years.

I think all of them, except for there's like one mystery person who never, like, said who he was, just disappeared. But everyone else is like. Yeah, it's broke. Because, again, it's impostered. They don't, they're truly not that millionaire. Yeah. They're not that person. Yeah.

And their goals were day in, day out, pay the bills. They got the money. They thought it would change them, but you're still the same person. Yeah. So if your identity is not there. Right. You're going to lose that money. You're going to fall back in the sales rankings.

Well, and, you know, Dave Ramsey, I think, is a pretty good money advisor. He says, if you can't handle $20,000 a year, you can't handle $2 million a year. You know, if you're not always working and trying to get better at how you manage whatever money you have now, right. The amount's not going to change anything. You're going to be upside down. Yeah, right. And again, I just don't think that.

tying anything to money and, you know, sales rankings, that, that to me is just a very, it creates a situation to where your sole focus becomes that. And then if you are fortunate enough to get it, again, that term imposter syndrome, like you will feel unworthy. You will feel like that's really not me subconsciously and you'll lose it or your progress will stop stop that's a good point but i'm going to back up for a second because i've kind of lost the story a little bit but you when you got a firm and what was it you measured in communications okay that's kind of a i mean it generally could be a good sales job i mean sales lead in from communications right um is that what you thought you wanted to do no sir what were you thinking you know i always love

sports and played sports my whole life. So I wanted to stay within that industry. I didn't really know to do what. But when I got out someone that knew me from years ago and dad refereed me in high school, I ended up meeting him and he offered me a sales position. And it was kind of in the time that was like 19 or no, that was probably 2000, around 2,000. Around 2,000. 2000, 2001 to where these bigger companies could still kind of hire somebody without all the qualifications. He could just hire who he wanted. And he ended up giving me an opportunity. To pharma?

And it was actually, this is going to really age me here, but I already did that. But remember the next tell radios? Yeah. Then did you, you know, the little radios? Yeah. Then he sold those to like larger, you know, like trucking companies and everybody that had like fleets of people out. Yeah. So, yeah, I ended up selling that first.

So I would say, you know, to the school, you know, if you don't have your dream job yet, if you just get a job in sales and start to learn how to sell with a hopefully a good company, that's not a bad choice. No, I mean. But I also say, Patrick, in John's perfect world, I would have been there to help you figure out what avenues in sports could you stick with? Could you have been selling for Adidas or Nike or working for the Southern Conference or, you know, whatever. I've been a coach, you know, there's so many different choices. And I had, believe it or not, you know, I wasn't the athlete that you are, but I had the same, when I think back on it, I'm like, I kind of went into technology.

But the weird thing is I didn't know anything about technology. I just kind of picked it. Right. I knew a lot about sports. I knew a lot of coaches. Well, that probably did you and I a favor, though, of getting us out. out of our comfort zone. Maybe.

Maybe. I don't know that I would have really push myself and felt like I had to push if I would have gone into something that made me comfortable. So I think that that was actually a favor that the universe did for it. It is easy to look back at your paths, the road not taken. Right. And think about it when you didn't take and how good it would have been. We don't know.

Right. We don't know what would have happened. Well, I mean, I always, of course, played ball. And, you know, through my whole life, you know, my goal was to play in the NBA. And, you know, I think back in one of my really good friends, one of my best friends, and actually college teammates at Clemson, he played in the NBA for 11 years. And I saw kind of what he had to go through. And, you know, as cool as that is, there's a lot of down.

fault of that as well. Right. You know, so I think back and it's like, hey, if I would, if that would have happened, yeah, my life as it is today, which I love every second of, would not be the same. That's a good point. Who was your teammate? Can you say your team? Greg Buckner.

Buckner, okay. Yep. So he played the NBA for 10 or 11 years and arguably one of the best college players that played at Clemson. Just so, and you know, he and I are still very good friends today. Well, there was a guy at Duke. I remember probably in the late 90s named Danny Ferry, who was one of the best Duke players ever. And I remember reading articles about him in the NBA.

He didn't last long because he just didn't want to do it. He was like, this is not what I thought. I mean, you travel every day and your body's always beat up. If you're not like, you know, Jordan or Kobe, you're not getting treated. Yeah. You know, they're trading you here, trades you there. I mean, it's a tough life. And the outcome for a lot of those guys is tied back to what we were talking about.

Yeah. You know, they, their identity is not that multimillionaire. So a lot of those guys lose that money as quick as it comes in because they're more comfortable being what they really are to the core, which is someone who doesn't have money. Yeah. So they get there. They somewhat win the lottery. Yeah. And it all goes away because, you know, again, it's, they don't truly think they're worth.

of that. So, okay, so you got this first sales job, the walkie-talkies. What did you, what was that like? What was your first sales job like? What did you learn good and bad? I mean, we had the most fun. It was just kind of, I hate to even say this, but just kind of like a fraternity type situation. We were really young and then unfortunately for these, you know, the true professionals in the room kind of had to fight against us young, young, because we were always having fun. And they were trying to actually get stuff done. So it was, but a very interesting, the guy that hired me, it was, you know, we're still friends

of this day. And I learned from him, you know, just the little things about setting your day and following that process of, you know, back then it was really kind of, you know, you got to get in front of a certain number of people and it kind of sales 101. You got to make X number of calls, get in front of a certain number of people. We had the old sales boards sitting in there where everybody'd mark, you know, and just kind of old school, man. So a lot of fun. Who would you try to get in front of?

What kind of companies? Anyone that had multiple, like a fleet or a force out in the field, anyone that was trying to communicate back and forth with each other. You know, like a HVAC company or any kind of service. industry or, you know, trucking company. I mean, you know, so anybody that was... Today, wouldn't they just use the two-way thing on their phone? Oh, today, like, yeah. He wouldn't do anything.

Well, I mean, you know, there's that, um, haytel. And, you know, they got all these apps. I mean, yeah, that would be non-existent today, but... So you went, you went from there, you kind of cut your teeth in sales there. It sounds like it was a pretty good experience. And then where did you go? So I ended up, um, probably the best thing that, ever happened to me was getting me out of my comfort space, which was here in Greenville,

where I knew everyone. I ended up getting an offer to work for a company that worked with IVF in vitro fertilization physicians talking about not knowing what I was doing. I didn't know anything about it. But I moved to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and just kind of sight unseen and got up there and all I had to do or knew to do was just work. And I just worked really hard. And I was covering two states, so I was traveling a good bit. But, you know, I was up there by myself. And I had to figure out who I was to the core.

And we were talking kind of before, you know, about that purpose. I do feel like I kind of found my purpose and figure, I figured out who I really was opposed to who everyone here in Greenville wanted me to be. And so I think all of us at some point in time have to go and do an experience in a region or a state or area that you don't maybe have a lot of friends where you can figure out who you really are. because most of us when we're around all of our friends and people we've known forever, you find yourself maybe being a little more who they want you to be than who you are. Interesting. And your habits and behaviors match that.

Because you're comfortable, it's easy to not get outside the comfort zone and set that process. But when I was up there, no friends, no nothing, right? No family. I had to set my process. and I again, I had to figure out, hey, what am I doing up here? Why am I here? And what am I going to do with this time? You know, and I just worked hard and I did.

I figured out my process and figured out who I was and became kind of like the introduction version of like who I am today. That kind of started then. Interesting. Yes, sir. Wow. You know, the first time I went away, it was, you know, probably about the same age. And it made me appreciate it here a lot more.

You know, I came back. I kind of like having friends and contacts and, you know, people I knew. It's nice. But, you know, I think it's debilitating in a way if someone stays in the same area. Never gets out there. And never gets out. You know, I think that can happen to people in different ways, whether it's, you know, the first time you move out.

on your own, but when you're close in proximity to your, say, mom and dad or that kind of family unit, you still kind of use that as a crutch a little bit, but if you look at the history and the story of a lot of people that have been successful, I think you find out that they at some point in time had to go do or go somewhere that was not in their comfort zone. I think, I mean, I've looked,

I love to kind of hear different people's stories and a lot of those people have that happen to them somehow, some way to where you start that fire of who you really are and what you're on this earth to do. Yeah. Kind of starts getting lit.

Interesting. That's cool. That's good advice. I think it's generally good advice to all the people in the Noob School to do that, to spend at least a year away, completely away, on your own, figuring things out, and knowing that's going to be a little difficult. It'll be different. Right. Different, too. Yeah, and I mean, I wrote down here, you know, I feel like that the younger, I think, and it doesn't just have to do with the, younger generation. I think this is all generations. We're scared to kind of go out and be open and learn and then fail and then stay open and continue to learn, fail again. And that whole process of failing, you know, you are going to figure out what you're made of. And as you know, and I know, but if your younger, failure is like this nasty, nasty word. But to be successful and to do what you really want to do, you're going to have to fail.

But I think staying a student through the failure, keeping your mind open is a necessity because most people that fail are going to defend themselves to try to make it look not like a failure. Hey, I didn't really, you think I failed. I actually didn't fail because of these reasons. Hey, own it. You know, own the failure, but stay with that student mentality. Keep learning. And I know one of the things I love so many things about you and your approach, but one of the things I've always remembered is how student-like you've always been when I'm around you, You know, and when we were in class together, you always asked amazing questions that you knew. You weren't just asking them to show that you knew something other people didn't, right?

You were asking because you were truly, you wanted to learn. Right. And that is a trait that's difficult because to fail and to keep that open mind, your ego gets a. gets in the way there and tells you, don't let people know you failed. Don't give off a weakness. Man, well, that weakness is actually how you become stronger. But it's not a weakness if you stay open to learn. It's a weakness if you fail, hide the failure or lie about the failure to others

and try to paint this picture of, oh, I'm so successful when you know, you might have got your butt kicked. You might have had a bad year. Next. I mean like, and I mean like, okay. I mean, like, you know, I've, I've had them. I'm sure you've had them. We've all had years that did not go per plan. Yeah. And you always look back and say, hey, you know, I got off track in these areas. My process was broken in this area and you stay open, you learn. And it doesn't happen again. But you got to go through that. We all need to get our butt kicked. You know. I agree. And I like the, I think we've talked about, you know, not succeeding at something or trying something, the only two things can happen. You either succeed at it or you learn from it. You know, so if you think about those two options, you really can't lose as long as you're either learning or succeeding. But it goes right back to what are your goals set as. If your goals are set to sell X number of dollars a year and then you don't read. that that creates you thinking you failed although you know your company every company is measuring us on our production yeah that's a fact but that doesn't mean it's life or death you know if you're with someone that you miss a sales goal and

you get fired you don't want to be with that company anyway because they're not their model is broken and that's not your fault right right you're going to fail all of us have had bad years and that number's not where you want it, but don't tie your goals to the number. Don't just don't do that. Again, momentum each day, momentum each week. And that's the one I just trained, as funny as it sounds, I just trained my brother. He's been working for me.

And I was just training him, and he's always been in an industry where it was, you know, Monday through Friday, grind and push and go and go, right? But then come Friday afternoon, man, he kind of shutting it down a little bit. And then Saturday, Sunday was quote unquote, his time. Then you start all over Monday. You know, what I've tried to explain to him is you're cutting your momentum off. Yeah.

If you do that. And that's not, you don't want to sit around with a nose in your book not saying that. Yeah. But, you know, work, you know, on Friday at the end of the day, right? I want to know kind of, hey, where, what did I? what happened this week where I gained momentum, where did I lose momentum? Yeah. You know, and then Saturday, I may be thinking about that a little bit, but being present

and aware of being with the family. But then on Sunday at a certain point in time, you know, we got to get ready to get it going on Monday. And it's not like I am working all the time. I'm doing this so I don't feel like I have to work all the time. Yeah. Right. But I'm not cutting that momentum.

It's not a Monday through Friday sprint. It is you're working the process. And your process cannot be based on a time of day. You know, like it just can't happen. It can be if you want to be middle of the road. Well, you know, that's where most people are. Yes, agreed. You know, people tell me I'm retired.

I work seven days a week. I wouldn't dare just not work one day. What am I going to do? Exactly. So, but it's more like, you. you know, maybe four or five hours of good work. Right. Every day.

Yes. And then some other work, you know, meetings and stuff. But, yeah, I think more and more people, I mean, the thought, and I used to do it. When I was a young salesperson, you know, Friday afternoon came and it was, you know, beer time, beer and wings time and watching football. And then Monday, you'd kind of crawl back in the office, you know, and start everything back up. And that's just not a good way to do it. It's not.

and if you go back to your five-life category approach and, you know, where people fall off is when you take that, take that kind of five day a week and then, you know, the weekends are, you know, no-holes barred cage match. You know, I mean, you know, what ends up falling off on the weekend is really a lot of people's diet. Yeah. and you know, you're consuming alcohol and you're consuming food that just are, it's going to put your body behind the eight ball. Yeah. And then when you try to, quote unquote, crank it back up Monday. Yeah. It's not your, it's not that you don't want to do it.

It's just your body is it, you just haven't recovered. Yeah. So if you work your tail off during the week and then just let it all go on the weekend, it's your body. it's failing you, well, you failed your body. Yeah. And that's, you know, the other thing that I have worked extremely hard on the last four years is understanding that your, you know, your body is supporting your mind. Mm-hmm.

And you've got to figure out, you know, John and Patrick can't have the same diet because we're not geared the same way. Our bodies aren't made the same way. You're, you may need more of this and less than this. I may need, you know, for me. me, you know, I'm big, I need protein, you know, I need to time my eating out. What about your calories per day? What are you shooting for? Well, just because I do enjoy working out and I try to keep some muscle on, you know,

I'm around like 4,000, but I have a kind of a rhyme and reason for those calories. And when I get off script, you know, I can tell. Now, for me, off script is, you know, like, I, you know, like, beer just doesn't sit well with me. I just put because I'm not, that's just not what my body's used to. And I hate to sound like, you know, a guy that doesn't, I mean, but I know what I, what I do well with. And so I just, I just have to feed my body what I need because I work out every day. Do a lot of different things to try to stay in shape and kind of, again, understand that

body supports the mind. And I do believe that building muscle. is extremely important for just for your overall health. I mean, that's a proven fact. I mean, to be really thin with no muscle mass is very difficult for your body, especially long term. Yeah, like a runner's den. Right, because a lot of people that when you start getting sick

and like these viruses get you easy, you need to take note of that. and that's probably your diet and then your training. It all plays together. It all plays together. You can't just go to sales school and work your tail off on your sales technique and then just bust it in work and not pay attention to what's driving the whole bus, which is your body.

And so the ones that live recklessly and feel like they've got to go out and do all these things, cause maybe their friends do it, you know, you're going to crash and burn at some point in time. Well, we, you know, we talk about it in chapter two of the book. I mean, it's literally the very beginning of the book is all about how if you want to be a great salesperson and have a good business career, the first thing you've got to get control of is yourself, your body, your sleep, what you eat, how much water, alcohol, you know, all those things. And it's not you can't see a shooting star ever now and then that, you know, does well for a while in spite of some of these things. But in general, you know, people ask me, you know, when I'm looking for a salesperson and I look at a room full of them, you know, of the candidates, I can say probably those three. You can almost tell, by the way, you know, they're dressed, the way they carry themselves, they're in shape.

You know, they're ready for action. Yes. Yeah, I mean, I cannot agree with you more. I mean, when it comes to, you've got to, your body has to allow your mind to perform. And all of us are different. We all are different. You know, the diet industry is a billion dollar industry for a reason because people fail. It's a failure-based industry.

Yeah, you know, like if everybody that dieted, if they succeeded, then the diet industry would be dead. Right? So it's a billion. I never thought of that. Possibly a trillion. They don't want to solve that problem, do they? They absolutely don't. So everyone that tells you about the diet is blowing smoke, right? Your diet has to be who you are daily, not a, you know, like a short-term, get back to the goal, number goal.

Those that try to diet to get to a weight. Go revisit this. typically in six months to a year after they get to that goal weight. What ends up happening? They go back to the old weight plus some. Isn't the more important number, like the body mass index or the fat ratio? Yeah, I think that that's it. But you also, you're not going to know how your body is performing without a very detailed blood workup.

and your primary care physician, they are looking at, hey, is John Sterling going to die tomorrow? They're looking at your blood work for these really bad markers. The blood work and the blood panels that I try to run consistently are more looking at how is my body recovering. So there's a huge difference. And if you want to be a high performer, you've got to figure that part out. And you've got to find a way, you know, like you go to Lab Corps. Like, you know, I can give you a link to a really good blood panel for males and females that can show how your body is recovering, how your body is performing based on what you're doing, you know, with your diet and your training. And again, that hard charging grind mentality, when you get stuck in that, you typically follow that.

You know, it spills over into your exercise. Yeah. And you're just going until your body just can't take anymore. And that's when you see like people training for things and they just push, push, push. And then they get uber sick for weeks because they've put their body in depletion. and they've overtrained. You know, so that is not a, that's not a positive outcome. No.

You may have got to the diet. You may have gotten to the race, you know, the big race, everybody's always, you know, getting ready for. But that's not performance long term. Longevity. There's no longevity to that approach. I want to get that blood panel thing from you. Yes. Well, let me ask you this.

Time-wise, we've got about 10 more minutes here. We didn't get to the transition from farm a job to Garland. Okay. So that's where you've been, like, for a while now. I've had that business for, that business is set up very similar to a franchise. Okay. So I've had that business. My area is, you know, like a geographic area.

And then within that area, I work with. you know, multiple accounts that are, you know, have facilities all over the world. But, you know, that, I've had that for 16 years. My son born at the end of September, September 22-06. I kind of got that opportunity. September 1, 06 is how I know. So he's 16 years old. So Patrick had entry-level sales job, learned it. Right. Farmer-related kind of job. Yes, sir. And then you had a chance to buy a franchise to sell it's set up very odd john it's like a very unusual setup it's they hire you and then they pretty much give you the franchise and it and you handle it it is handled exactly like if i were to own my own business minus the big time insurances that they carry for me

in regards to all the work and everything. So I kind of get the best of both worlds. So it's not exactly an actual purchase. You are given the opportunity. They are looking for partners. And when they deem you as that is what they want you to do, there's multiple entry-level positions with them where you're kind of like an apprentice

and different things like that. But yeah, I was given my own kind of territory franchise if you want to call it. And, you know, and I just worked that business just like I would if, you know, the name of this building right here had my name on it. And I was churning away. And the business is Garland, right? Yes, sir, Garland.

And it is one of the, I'd say that the best or most important, one of the top few industrial roofing businesses in the country? We are an ESOP company, employee stock option. And so they don't really, because we're a private, our numbers aren't out there for those that compare to compare like other public companies. But we're one of the top performing ESOP companies in the world. I remember talking to you about what's like selling industrial roofs. I mean, this is big buildings and stuff. And you said really, really important part of the process is getting up on the roof.

Yes, sir. Once they let you up on the roof, you could usually find, you know, places where you could help them. Well, yeah, I mean, I would say probably six or seven years ago, you know, I hit a stretch to where I was kind of like, you know, why am I doing what I'm doing? You know, that sounds selling materials that keep water out of buildings is like the least sexy thing you could probably ever come up with, maybe one of. and I hit a point, John, to where I was like, why am I doing this? Is this truly kind of who I am and what I am? And, you know, the guy that I work with, I still coach and coach with a guy Mondays from 1045 to 1245 every week.

And he helped me at that time. Well, it was actually, I started working with him a little after that time where I was struggling with this because I had just getting. gotten all these awards and I had achieved what one would have thought would have been kind of like, oh my God, this has been unbelievable. I remember that. The money, the whole, everything was lining up like my dream opportunity and dream outcome. And I didn't feel that way.

And so I struggled there for about a year and a half with why and what, you know, like, why am I doing this? What am I doing? and he helped me understand that no matter what you're doing, you've got to, number one, he helped me discover my purpose. There's an exercise that I love that I'll also give you a link to. You discover your purpose and values. And my purpose, I'm a freedom purpose.

And I actually wrote down the different purposes. There's 10 of them in this exercise. Growth, vitality, inspire, freedom, love, peace, connection, joy, integrity, and courage. and I am a freedom purpose through the purpose discovery. And he said, so what you do with your clients, can you tie what you do to your purpose? And once I understood that purpose and there's a whole description of what that purpose means, and I'll get you that as well. It was so funny, it was kind of that aha moment.

I'm like, you know, I give them. freedom from having to deal with the problems and the issues that occur when water comes in, the hospital and closes an OR, or the big manufacturing facility when they have to shut down part of their process, right? So there's a lot of people that are running these big facilities, that are over these facilities, that that's one of their jobs. and I'm able to take that off their plate. So I quit calling on people that I didn't feel that that was helpful to them,

that they felt like they had that handled already and that I was just selling them something. I quit really focusing on those prospects and went toward those that were saying, man, this is, this keeps me up at night because I don't have. the answers. Can you help? You know, is this something you can help me with? And that type of prospect, I started listening really, really intently for people that wanted that to be off their plate, and I would give them freedom to do things that they may like more. When I figured that out, then that's when mentally I could get dialed in and day into day out, wake up knowing, all right man hey i got i'm set today i'm purposeful and that's when i built the momentum and since

then i've had without focusing on the outcome i have had the best five-year run of my career and never one time did i ever i don't even look at the rankings within my company no anymore what does it matter so if i if i if i was the building man manager for instead of the hospital. What is the question you would ask me to determine whether or not I'm worth talking to? Whether you should talk to me or not. Some people that run the facilities and buildings have a really good process that they have already to ensure water doesn't get in their building, whether it's from walls or roofs. If I'm going to ask you, you know, if you don't mind.

sharing with me you know if you had water come in OR number five yeah tomorrow would you mind sharing with me your process and how you would handle that and if they rattle off hey I'd call this guy I'd call this company these people would come out if they have that like where you can see yeah that they've got them they've got a process yeah and you know if they rattle that off. And I asked the next question of, well, how, how's that working for you? Yeah. You know, do you feel really good? Are they performing like you want them to? And if their answer is yes to that, then, hey, man, you know, like, nice to meet you. No love loss here on either side. But I don't think I can help you. Yeah. You know, I don't think I'm a good fit for,

you know, I think I may, if I call, you may think, why is that guy calling me back? Right. And that's okay. Yeah, the bad salesperson, just for the loom schoolers out there, the bad salesperson would call that guy every two weeks. Hey, you got anything going on at the roof right now or anything I come out there and check on? You know, right? Just pester the guy. Yeah, I call it the square peg and the round hole.

You know what I mean? Or, you know, it's like they're going to try to force a fit. Yeah. And what I've found, and I know you found, that when you are professional in that situation and say, look, if anything changes where your process breaks down on you to where you may want additional help or another set of eyes, I'm not, I would love to help you. I'm not saying I don't want, I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to potentially work with you. Right now it doesn't seem like good timing.

If you see things change, I would love the opportunity. Yeah. How do we go about communicating in a way to where I don't lose touch with you, you don't lose touch with me, and you feel comfortable reaching back out to me to tell me, hey, Patrick, things have changed. These people aren't responding anymore like I want them to. Can you come back out and let's discuss? I wouldn't be sitting there if I didn't want that, but I also want that to be driven by them coming to me.

because if they come to me at that point, as you know, John, then man, hey, look, we got to train back on the tracks. And typically that train is going to get docked. I mean, you're going to have success there. If you are just constantly hitting them, even if they needed you, they probably are not going to tell you. So you've got to have patience. And I think my big thing, one of my notes I wrote here is I think your ego, the ego for salespeople is such a major player, especially when you are trying to force a fit. Your ego tells you, I know I can help this person.

I can sell this guy. I can sell this guy because I've, you know, I've been doing my sales school. I'm number two in the country. Yeah, I'm the guy, right? I'm the girl. You know, and that ego gets in the way. And a really interesting trick that I use, and some people may like, man, this guy. guy's a little weird, but, you know, I've named my ego. And my ego is name. I'm just for everybody.

Like my ego's name is Jay. Jay. So Jay, and just because one of my favorite people that I've worked out with, his name's Jay. And he makes me laugh. So some people name their ego like something that is reminding them of something negative. But I'm different. But once you realize that that voice in your head that's telling you, hey, sell that person, sell them. You've got to sell something this month. You got to, that's your ego. When you slow down and realize that that's not really you, right? That is your ego trying to kind of control your actions. Then you can slow down and be aware and basically calm yourself and understand, hey, look, this is not the right. timing here and that's okay.

Opposed to the ego wants you to drive. What can we do to get your business? Thank you. Exactly. The ego wants you to push because that makes us feel tough. That makes us feel like we can sell them no matter what, but you never win that battle. It's just amazing to hear you tell that story because you know, you look like a guy with

all your success and big old guy. You look like a guy who's just going to go in there and just sell them. Just sell them all, and you're just the opposite. You're really trying to figure out what they need. Right. And take care of the ones that need your stuff and the other ones that stay in touch as you wish. So I think it's a great message. And we talk about the message all the time, but to hear you say it is unreal.

So two more questions. Favorite word or words for you? You get two words, Patrick. Okay, got it. I'm going to go, conflict resolution. Okay. Talk to us about that. Conflict resolution.

I feel like no matter how great your process is, no matter how awesome you are in your five-life categories, day in and day out, there's going to be conflict. And how do you deal with the conflict? And conflict resolution, my coach, my guy, his rule of things. thumb is you should always be in conflict resolution. Conflict resolution doesn't mean that you don't have to have tough conversations, but you never leave conflict unresolved. Have the tough conversations, whether it's in relationships, whether it's in your work, whether it's your boss, whether it's your client. That conflict, you meet that head on. And the resolution is that you are hearing them explain to you why it's a conflict to them. And it goes back to that ego. You have to check

your ego at the door. Because we're sure we know what the problem is. Thank you. Exactly. It's them. And how many salespeople and how many times have you or me left a sales call? Yeah. And said to yourself or said to whoever's in the car with you that went on, you know, God, can you believe, you know, how stupid that guy was? How can he not see that what we're doing is great? Yeah. And that is just such a common mistake. That person was presenting an obstacle for you.

And instead of understanding why they saw that as an obstacle from their end, you are. trying to solve the problem for them. Instead of having them explain to you, here's why this is such a sticking point for me in regards to what you're saying. If you understand what the conflict is from their side, then you understand better questions you can ask. And like we've been taught, a lot of times you can't solve the problem. right there.

The conflict, right, is not that you're trying to solve a problem, that you're trying to understand the problem better and be on a equal business stature conversation with them. If they feel like, if the prospect or your client feels like you're trying to understand their issue, their conflict, you're going to have a good outcome there. It might not be a sell. But it will be moving, continuing momentum because they will trust you more. So conflict resolution with everyone in your life, relationships, you know, work colleagues or prospects.

That means that you're aware that you can slow down, that you can understand your ego is going to try to push you to solve that problem for them. Yeah. Opposed to understand it better. So that conflict resolution to me is like day in and day out. When the conflict arises, I'm very weird in this. I almost kind of love conflict because it makes me work really hard on myself and work through my process and understand my process better opposed to just cruising through. When you're not being really given conflicts and things aren't being put at any. your way as an obstacle, to me that means that you're not, you're not doing something right.

Yeah. You know, like no one, if they, if everyone agrees with you all the time, they're lying to you. Yeah. They think that you're too weak for them to tell you, hey, dude, I do not agree with you. Well, I think you're good at it too. I think you're good at it. And one of the reasons is because you have, you understand why you want to do it. But since you do it very often, it's like a muscle.

You get better at it. I'm not near as good as you are. When I do it, results are unbelievable. But the reason I don't do it sometimes, the reason most people don't do it sometimes, because you risk, you know, a problem, right? If there's maybe a little conflict brewing over here, maybe I just ignore it.

You know, maybe it'll go away tomorrow, you know, that kind of thing. But if I call the people out on it, it could blow up. Well, I mean, and again, whether it blows up or not, you do have a huge part in the blow up, right? Because it's not going to blow up unless you defend an attack. Right.

So if you just ask the question. If you find yourself defending and attacking, you know that you've been triggered and that trigger means that that's a weakness of yours. So if someone says something, to you, John, hey John, I really dislike how you handled this and you defend your action opposed to saying, hey, I appreciate you saying that.

Can you give me a little bit more there? You know, I thought I did right. My reaction was what I thought was genuine or the right thing I thought to do at the time. From your end, can you explain what you felt. How did you feel when I said that? When they tell you, you'll see that most likely you had responded with your ego. Your ego responded, not John Sterling. And then once you see that and keep that, keep Jay in mind and be like, you know what, that was Jay. And I apologize for that. Yeah. I should

ask a question there instead of, yeah, I shouldn't have defended myself. Now, did you learn that from your coach? I did. Yes, sir. I'm about to talk to your coach. He needs to come to the podcast. He will absolutely come to the podcast. His name is Bill Cortright, and he's been working with high-performing individuals for 35 years. And he and his process just, and I think this is a very overused term, but I'll just tell you because it's what I feel. He transformed my life.

especially when it comes to relationships and those five life categories he helped me understand how important it was to pay attention to all five not just that drive and that push and career right that you know you know when you and I were together we all in that room were very career um focused and driven. But I've always had very good relationships. And, you know, from my wife, I have three kids. But when I started understanding how words and actions and conflict affect your, the relationship, and then that spills into career, hell.

you know, all those things. And you, and you said it. Most people that have a problem with relationships, a lot of times that basically, they are just depressing feelings. And they're trying to avoid conflict. And so he taught me that wherever that conflict arises, you know, and he always says this, if you in the right way give your feelings of how you feel and let the other person share their feelings and be open to learn more about them and not try to change or solve the problem right there but just have it an equal yeah equal conversation yeah how many times have you ever lost in that yeah very few if if any yeah when both parties can share right and so when you have conflict that you don't resolve, then that kind of takes your focus away from maybe your process in work or your process in your health and you're not focused.

You're not present in the moment to where you can hear that ego. Right. And then that ego gets you in trouble because you start maybe you had a bad relationship day on Monday. well, what is absolutely going to happen on Tuesday? Bad sales day. Bingo. 100% are bad health day and sales day, which ensures that Wednesday is going to be bad too because it all, like we said, it all comes together.

So he transformed the way I looked at my life and how I was performing in each one of those. And it's all equal. Yeah. You know, just because you're driving to be a successful business person doesn't mean that you're not paying attention to the others because that those, the other categories will come back and get you. And it's just like he tells this story, one of his clients, that was a billionaire. He had a billion bucks in the bank, but he was in a condo in Miami by himself with zero mobility. So would you consider him a success? No.

Exactly. But he had a bunch of money. He was considered an unbelievably successful business person. But every other life category was at a zero. So he teaches you to take zero to 10 and grade yourself in each life category. And if you're honest with yourself,

where those numbers are low, that's where you're focused. needs to be, and that's where you've got to get a better process. And if those numbers come up, what else is going to come up? Everything else. You're going to go from an eight. If you're a millionaire, but all those other categories come up, guaranteed you focus on those and really get those up, your business will also grow just because of how you're

going to perform day in and day out. Interesting. Well, fascinating story. I didn't know we were going to get to cover all that stuff, Patrick. That was remarkable. And I'm sure our viewers will love what you share today, not just about sales, but about life and everything else. So I appreciate you coming today.

And we'll have you back in a couple of years after maybe I go see this guy. Maybe I'll improve too. Okay. Well, if you do that short term, then we'll do it. We'll do it like three months from the day. All right. That's cool. Thank you, man.

Appreciate it. John. All right. Wow, Patrick, that was awesome, man. Thank you, brother.