Noob School - Episode 94: From Harvard to Los Angeles: Billy Campbell's Story (Part 1)

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Today on Noob School, we're joined by a very special guest: Billy Campbell. The stories told in this episode will surely keep you on the edge of your seat. From his time studying a Harvard, his diving into the entertainment industry, such as becoming the president of Discovery Inc, to the harrowing story of his survival of the 2009 crash landing of US Airways Flight 1549 on the Hudson River (coming with part 2), you won't want to miss even these few bits of his amazing life story. Be sure to tune in next week for Part 2 of the podcast with Billy! To see all of what Noob School has to offer, check out our website: SchoolForNoobs.com I'm going to be sharing my secrets on all my social channels, but if you want them all at your fingertips, start with my book, Sales for Noobs: https://amzn.to/3tiaxsL Subscribe to our newsletter today: https://bit.ly/3Ned5kL #noobschool #salestraining #sales #training #entrepreneur #salestips #salesadvice

New School. All right, well, welcome back to Noob School. I've got another great friend going all the way back to high school. My good friend Billy Campbell, thanks for being here, Billy. Pleasure, John. Billy has achieved many things in life so far, including running the Discovery Channel, which is kind enough to have my son Jack intern at, so I got to visit a couple of times, as well as a big part of ABC television at one time

and some other things we'll talk about. So he's definitely in the entertainment world achieved a lot. But what we like to do, as you know, is back up to the beginning, kind of start maybe high school, college time, and figure out what he did to get there. And, of course, how salesmanship played a part in that because these things don't come from filling out a form on a computer, You have to use your skills to get there.

So I know when I met you, you just moved here from Charlotte to Greenville, right? And your dad came to run some technical company? He did. He got a promotion. And I still remember, you know, after my eighth grade, excited to go into high school and play with sports, football, basketball, and baseball with all my buddies that you know a lot of up in Charlotte. And at dinner one night, mom said, well, just want to let you know, dad got a promotion. awesome, we're moving to Greenville. And when you grow up in North Carolina, moving to South Carolina, you know,

was not the first thing on your list. But my mom listened to me sort of squawked for a few minutes and then said, okay, enough of that. We're on the team and we're on board. And she did have, as usual, like your mom, this great apocryphal advice, which was you're going to end up having friends in both places. Yeah. And you're going to love Greenville.

It's beautiful. Yeah. And the other advantage, too, and you probably don't remember this in terms of a comparative, but back then, back in the day, we were able to get our driver's license at 15. Oh, remember that? Yeah. So one of the advantages is I'm driving around, you know, as soon as I get here, get my license.

And all my buddies in Charlotte were pretty, we're still pretty upset about that. Yeah. But I do remember coming to Christchurch and coming in. And like you, one of the things that really made it. a huge difference for me was the friendliness of all you guys. Because y'all had such a, y'all were like band of brothers, you know, in terms of that grade. Yeah.

The eighth grade, when I was in ninth, we all immediately became friends through sports, football, and then you and I played basketball forever. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, is really proud of you, you know, you know, in terms of all that you've, it's accomplished with not only your business and the noob school and all the things you're doing and writing books, but I just love the fact that you are such an entrepreneur and you're playing your horn all over the world. You just told me you might be going to Barcelona. So it's a privilege to be here with you today. Thank you. Appreciate that. You inspired me to do these things.

Well, I remember when you got to school, one of the first things I noticed about you because I didn't meet you on day one was you immediately were hanging out and talking. to like juniors and seniors, you know, like Murray Hewle and some of these people that I was kind of scared of, you know, and I couldn't quite understand it. And I suppose it was just your comfort in dealing with, let's say, higher authority or older people. I don't know where that came from. Well, I have to give a lot of the credit, you know, probably to my mom for just sort of saying, you know, listen, just be confident in whatever you're doing, be yourself. Yeah. But I also, really have to say that I think, you know, and this isn't a Christchurch commercial. That's not what

your podcast is about. But it was such a warm, welcoming environment to come and not know anyone when I came there. And I immediately started playing football. So I had some friends, you know, Kane and Donnie and Earl and, you know, the group right off the bat and Quattelbaum. And then all of a sudden, you know, we start playing basketball. I was really lucky because at the time, coach Tate, who was our coach, gave me a shot. So I ended up being able to start as a freshman. And so I really think a lot of what you're talking about was the assimilation into a team environment. And yes, Murray and Pace and John Colts and the whole group were we were so much younger. They were the guys. They were the studs. But I think when you get into an environment

where you share a lot of sort of, you know, commonality or similarities or passion, it makes it a lot easier. And I think in your book, you know, you talk about that a lot in terms of sales because I know you always try to twist things to think about it from a sales perspective. But I think that great salespeople are able to relate to other people in really unique ways. And as you know, if you can get someone to tell you about themselves and you're a good listener, next thing you know, you still have to have a bond. And they feel comfortable.

So I think for me that I was lucky because I was a decent. athlete. And so that threw me right into a group of guys that were fun. Well, I'd forgotten that. That makes sense that when you were in ninth grade, you were a starter on the varsity basketball team. And so it was normal that you would know all those guys. Well, and the funny part about it was I still did not have my driver's license yet. And so Pace Beatty, who had his Mercedes, you know, drove me home every day. And so, you know, by By sheer force, I, you know, had that moment, those times with those guys. And so, but I really think competing and being on a team together is, as you know, the best salespeople are teammates.

So I think that for me, sports really opened a lot of doors. But Christchurch made it, you know, it was a special place. It was. Both sports and academics that we could sort of enjoy. Well, a lot of great salespeople. Not all of them, but a lot of them have a background in sports. Because I guess they get used to competing and they want to win and they kind of, you've hung up your shoes for the last time, but you can still compete to make that number every month. So I think sports is good for sales.

But on sports with you, you know, one thing that I certainly noticed was when you were a standout in football, basketball, baseball, did you play any other sports? Did you do any track or anything? Well, you know, I wasn't near, no, I didn't. But I was your, I wasn't your caliber, but I love tennis. You play tennis. And I started to learn to play golf a little bit. Okay. You know, I never really got to the level of a lot of our friends.

But I was a, you know, middle teens handicapped guy, so I've been able to enjoy the sport, you know, for years. And I can hit one shot that looks like I'm Tiger Woods. And then the next shot, likes, I'm hitting it with a rake. Yeah. But I think that, again, the part you're talking about with sales, is, and then I know one of the things you had sent me, and you do talk about sales, and it kind of reminded me of, as you mentioned it, about coming into a new environment, is how do you get your foot in the door?

Yeah. And to me, because you would ask me to think about that on the sales front, that to me is the key, is how do you get someone to be willing to listen to you? And I've got some good, fun anecdotes that we'll talk about later when I was at Discovery. Yeah. You know, the best salesman I've ever seen worked for me. Okay. And he had some really good.

Well, stick with sports for just a few more minutes. So, you know, you were a very good player on all those areas. But there was other players that, you know, were also very good. So I wouldn't say you were necessarily the best player on each of those sports. But you were very good. But you were the captain of each of those sports, football, basketball, and baseball. And you weren't the person who'd been at that school for 15 years either. You weren't the most popular because you'd been here the longest.

And so, I mean, I felt like you certainly deserved that, but I'm not sure. I can't really put into words why that is. So it's leadership, obviously. And I wanted to get your opinion on, you know, what is this about you that would get you to be elected by your teammates in all those sports to be the leader? Well, that's a great question. And I don't know that I have the perfect answer. I think for me, great leaders are people that don't try to be something they're not.

Someone who's, it reminds me of the movie, one of my favorite movies, is Braveheart. And, you know, when you sort of think back to the Mel Gibson character at the end, you know, things looked tough, but he was willing to be the first one up the mountain. And so I think that a captain or a great teammate or a great leader is always one that's willing to be. to step forward, even especially when things are, you know, you're having adversity. Right. I think for me, a lot of it is also, John, is communication. And a really good leader and a good captain in sports is someone who makes sure that they care as much about the youngest or the least talented person as they do the other.

And so, again, I think that maybe, you know, a little bit of lesson from my mom on that. was, you know, treat everybody the way that you want to be treated. So there's almost nothing that you can say today that will be as complimentary to me as what you just said about being the captain and, you know, leading. So I appreciate that, and that's humbling. Good. Well, it's true. And I saw with my own eyes how you treated people of all levels at the school on the team and off the team. So that's a really good lesson in leadership for the noobs that are watching.

It's just how you treat everybody and everyone sees that. Well, you lead into something else that I think as you talk about, as we talk about my career a little bit, which I think is part of being, you know, trying to be great. All of us want to be great. Sometimes there are barriers that are in our way. There are our own barriers we create. Sometimes they're physical, sometimes they're mental, sometimes they're emotional. But I think that being a leader is also similar to being successful in other things, which is be willing to raise your hand.

If you think back to football or certainly our basketball, and it may not have been the right decision sometimes, but I definitely wanted to take the last shot. No, when I was a senior and you were a junior and you were a stud, you wanted to take the last shot. But I think together, one reason we had such success at Christchurch and had so much fun and won a lot of big games is that, you know what? You're willing to, you accept the pressure. You actually relish the pressure a little bit. And I think that part of leadership is being excited about the pressure, but also not letting it change who you are or the way that you're supposed to do something. Well, this is another positive. Unfortunately, for the viewers, I don't have many negatives for Billy here.

Another positive in your life that I admired was the Eagle Scout thing that you did in high school. And again, while we were running around, you know, stealing beer out of someone's refrigerator and, you know, joy riding around. You were having a lot more fun. I was studying merit matches. You were doing merit patches. And we used to like, I mean, we didn't like laugh at you, but we were. were like, sure you did. No, I mean, maybe we did, but you never saw any of that. No, it was kind of like, wow, what is he doing? What's wrong with him? What's he doing this for? It's

Boy Scouts. But I in my life have known about six Eagle Scouts, and they're all outstanding, outstanding in every field. And is this a similar thing you've seen? And what is it about it that helps people prepare for that? Well, that's another great question, because sadly, in today's world, scouting is sort of falling off with a cliff a little bit. I hope it'll come back. The Boy Scouts of America, I think probably hadn't been organized to run very well for a long time. But the basic tenets of being a Boy Scout are fantastic. It's about learning about leadership, about being in a patrol, about learning. At that time, I had to get 24 merit badges. So just think about it. That's 24 different topics. I may not want to study every one of them,

But I'm going to learn something about each one. Some of them are going to become passions or our passions. But I think that, and again, I salute my mom a little bit on this because I didn't, I wasn't 12 or 13 living in Charlotte and go, hey, mom, I want to go to scouts. Yeah. You know, it was like, you know what, Billy, you're going to be doing the Boy Scouts, you know. And I think that what I really enjoyed was that you, and you've got the military background with your time at Citadel. Yeah, a little bit. which is you pay your dues.

And so you're a tenderfoot. And then you become a second class. And then you put, so you're earning your way up, but you're learning the whole time. But you don't just sort of jump to Eagle Scout. It's a process. So I felt at the end that I really earned it because I had 24 merit badges. I had been the troop leader, patrol leader. We'd been to jamborees.

And so I just, I think that it helped me to become a little more well-rounded. My nephews are both Eagle Scouts. Wow. My sister's, so I'm really proud of them. And I do agree with you that when I look at someone's resume, there are usually three or four things that jump out to me. If someone's an Eagle Scout, I have a bond. And I immediately say, tell me about your senior project. What was your Eagle project?

And what was your favorite merit badge? But it's a little bit of a stamp of someone who was willing to work. and, you know, work your way up and learn. And it also has a lot to do with, you know, patriotism and faith. And so those were things that were just always important to me. And, again, I kind of thank my mom for giving me the nudge a little bit. But I did like it when I got into it. Yeah.

Well, I think I would have because I mean, I probably am getting, you know, 10 or 12 merit, but I just every year now with them. You are. I'm learning things. You're one of the most curious people. Yeah. And I love that. Curiosity.

when I meet someone, go back to your sales thing, when I'm trying to interview someone, if they're not curious, and I can tell within 10 or 15 minutes, I know that they're probably not going to thrive in an environment that I'm leading. One last high school question,

then we'll move on. But unlike me and every single other of our social friends that I can think about in high school, and you were just one of our great friends, but you were the only one who didn't drink alcohol. And I was just always wondering how that happened and why you decided to do that and what difference has made in your life. You know, I've been asked that a lot, and I'll certainly ask that a lot in high school. A bet, yeah.

And in college. Sure, I asked you. I wish I had, you know, just this perfect answer to tell you. When I moved here, again, it was a fish out of water, 15 years old, getting ready to do all the fun things that we all dreamed of. you know, in coming into high school, which is with your buddies and you're going to start playing sports and go to high school. And so all of that changed. Again, I thought it was going to be disastrous. I'm moving from Charlotte to Greenville, South Carolina.

And yet it was the opposite. My mom, as usual, was sort of right. So the alcohol thing was, so we're here for about two months. And I all of a sudden get invited to go to a high school fraternity party. Revelers. Well, number one, yes, revelers. I've never heard of that. I don't know what that means.

And I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Yeah. And as a reveler as well, you remember that those parties were fun. I don't know. It was a mess. It was a mess. But I think that I was so into sports. And so initially I was just like, that's not for me.

And what happened, I think, which was really a revelation, was that as time went on, I found that I didn't need that to have fun. You know me, we're going to talk music at some point because I played not very well, but played the saxophone too, and love music and love to dance. And so those things were enough for me. I also found something in college that I don't think we've ever talked about, which is kind of ironic, which was, I'd be at a party and in the dorm with a group of guys, a bunch of people. And I'd think that I was having a really interesting conversation with someone. And maybe even a debate.

Well, so the next day at the dining room, I'd sit down with him and say, hey, great seeing you last night. You know, I was thinking about what you said. And you made some good points last night. And almost 100% of the time, John, the comment would be like, what are you talking about? I have no recollection of that. So there was part of me that was like, wow, that's kind of a waste of time. Yeah. You know?

I almost every one of my friends drinks. And of course, now everyone's a wine connoisseur, which I think is one of the greatest scams in the history of the world because, you know, people are willing to pay that much money for something that's gone that quickly. But I appreciate their love for it and studying and I've gotten to know, you know, ventures and all this kind of stuff. I think for me it's just been I don't have any issue with anybody drinking alcohol. Most of my friends, my family do, and they enjoy it.

And I think as long as it's done where it's productive, I think it's great. It does scare me a little bit sometimes when I see, you know, what it can do to people's lives. Yeah. And again, I go back to that selfish part, which is when you're with me, I hope that the next day you say, that was pure. Yeah. That was pure billy. That was a good conversation, good experience. And you know me, I love to dance.

I'll have as much fun as anybody. It was just one of those things where I just, there was tons of peer pressure to do that. But I really felt like, you know what? I like what I'm doing and I was on a good track. Well, I say that's a good call. That's a good call. More people are considering that decision now. A lot more people.

people, young people, figuring out that it's not, all it's cracked up to be in the commercial. One thing I love about what's happening with certainly young people, but really, I think globally, is people are focusing much more on wellness, you know, and living longer. Right. And it's kind of amazing to see where we think longevity. That's a whole other podcast. Yeah. But again, I think it's like everything.

In moderation, I think it's fine and I think it's great. I just, alcohol scared me a little bit because. I saw what it did to some relatives. I saw what it did to some friends. And every year, you know, it happens in Greenville. It happens in down to the beach where I live. It happens all over. Alcohol leads to people doing stuff that they shouldn't and it turns into tragedy.

So anyway, that's a whole longer conversation. It's another another conversation. Okay. So we're finishing up high school. And I didn't even know you were applying to Harvard. But you came walking in the gym one day. You're like, hey, Sterling, look at this. And you had a letter of acceptance to Harvard.

And, I mean, normally, the people who got into Harvard, I knew, they all had like 4.0s, and they were in the library the whole time. You'd have a 4-0, did you? I did not. Okay. You had good grades. I did well. I was, you know, near the top of the class.

But there were definitely smarter people, and there were people that did better than I did. The Harvard story is a fun story for lots of reasons. When I lived in Charlotte and I was in fourth or fifth grade, one of my best friends that we hung out and rode bikes together all the time, his older brother had gone to a prep school from Charlotte and then went to Harvard. And I'm not sure, but these are the moments in life where people sort of, you know, take you under their wing or touch you in a way that leads you down a different track. he always was nice. I mean, he was eight years older, and he was always so nice to me,

and he sent me a gray Harvard t-shirt as a freshman. So I remember wearing that t-shirt all the time. And there was a moment in time, and I can't pinpoint it, but I think it was probably in six or seventh grade, where I decided that's where I wanted to go. I didn't talk about it. But the reason I decided to go there

was because based on everything I had heard and seen, and I had a friend, older brother that was there, friends, older brother, it was the best goal. So that was the goal. Yeah. So the fun part is when I did apply, I didn't make a big deal, I didn't talk about it. It was very unlikely that I would get in. Thank goodness I was from South Carolina and they had a quota and they needed some South Carolinians. But I ended up applying there and Clemson and my dad went to Clemson as you know. And so I think the funnest part was I did get in early action and came to basketball practice and showed you the note. And there's a funny reaction that a couple of people had.

But I didn't hear or get into Clemson until May. And so my dad, being a great Clemson graduate, always said, thank goodness, Clemson still thoroughly reviews all of their applicants. So we had fun with that. But I remember coming to the team and you and sort of we all kind of celebrated, oh, wow, you're going to go to Harvard and that kind of thing. And then I remember a couple of them later saying, we're so proud of you and so happy, but you're really not going to go, are you?

So I think there was always sort of this disbelief. Like, one, that I got in, but two, why would you actually go there when you could go to the Citadel or Clemson or Carolina or North Carolina? And I have to say, when I went, it was like I landed on another planet. I didn't know anybody. My accent stuck out. There was no sweet tea. No blue blazers. Very few blue blazers.

I walked down the street and said hello to some man. He just walked right by me. So, and my first day of class is kind of one I will always remember. I was going into the science center and I opened the door to let a young lady go through and she wouldn't go through. And so we just kind of stood there and I said, no, but she goes, I can open the door for myself. So that was a moment where I was like, I wish I could be back. Yeah.

I made the wrong call. Yeah. But it turned out, and I was really homesick. You probably remembered that. The first time I got to come home was to see you guys. I came straight to your basketball. I think you're playing over at Oakway or somewhere. But as time went on, that homesickness kind of, you know, waned a little bit.

It lasted most of the freshman year. But I made some great friends. And what I really loved was being able to expose that part of our country, which is a really cool and beautiful part in a different way, big city, to, you know, friends that, you know, a bunch of y'all came up there. Yeah, yeah. And you played, I know you played basketball there and you played, did you play baseball there too? I did not.

I just basketball. Basketball. Okay. And what did you study at Harvard? Well, that's a great question because being a liberal arts college, I didn't have that many choices. And I wanted to, I knew I was interested in business, so I took economics. Okay. It's what's funny is that now today, when I make talks to students, I almost guide all of them away from economics.

Okay. And the reason is not that you don't need a few economics classes. But wow, those four years are such a unique time in your life. Do study something that you'll never have the opportunity to do again. Get a good foundation in economics, but boy, if I could have those three classes back that I had to study microeconomic theory, which really hasn't done much to propel me or push me in different directions, study philosophy. I wish I could have majored in literature. Think back.

Our lives are so busy now. when do you have time to read books? That's an opportunity to be with people and just talk about great literature. So in hindsight, that was a mistake. I wish I'd majored in something else. But it kind of led me, you know, along the track. And then, you know, it probably did help me a little bit in terms I went to Wall Street, you know, for my first job after college. And you made, I'm sure, a lot of good friends and contacts there.

And that's one of the reasons you might go to a school like that is to have the, those contexts that are, those people are out doing very interesting things, I would think. Well, I think you nailed the best part about Harvard, which is it pushed me in ways that I didn't know that, or to do things that I didn't know that I was capable of, but also exposed you to people that really had a similar view, which is I want to try to go to the best school. Whether Harvard's the best school or not, you know, those rankings, but we always know one of the top schools. And I think the reason is because of the tradition, obviously the professors, but it's the students. And so it's a magnet for people from all over the world. So, you know,

my two roommates is a fun story. I think you've probably met them along the way or know about them. But my two roommates, I got very lucky. The first year, I roomed with a guy who literally is a rocket scientist involved with SpaceX and lives out in California. And he was from Connecticut. And my second roommate now is a Catholic priest and lives in Colorado. Wow. Both fantastic guys. But I was really into the sports and doing my basketball. So I ended up meeting two other fellows from Wilmington, Delaware, and I room with them.

Both of them are doctors or were doctors. And they're great guys. One is Dr. Oz. And the other is the head of lung cancer surgery at Duke, Dr. Domingo. And being a television guy, which we'll get into later, I always used to love, you know, when I was at an event, I'd have these two brilliant surgeons. And I could always put my arms around them and say to whoever we were talking to, thank goodness one of us is giving back to society.

So they always thought that was kind of funny, you know, because of me being in television. But I think that Harvard's best, greatest asset is the people that come through there. And you are exposed to different perspectives and points of view than you would get probably anywhere else. Most of them are wrong, I would think. I think so. or I'm always told that. But I think that's an excellent point for people who are raising kids and stuff is, you know,

one reason you might want to go to a school like that is all those kids that go there want to be the best, not just at that school, but they want to be the best of whatever they're going to do next. And you want to know those kind of people. Well, and you, you, it's also an awakening when I thought I was a really good student. And I thought it was a very good writer. And we had to take, one of the classes we had to take, all freshmen had to take expanse. had to take expository writing. So the first theme was, you know, describe, you know, a summer experience that you had that you, you know, we all have to do that. I was positive I was going

to get an A on that. So I had nailed it. So I remember getting it back and it was a C plus. I don't think I'd ever gotten that great in my life. And I remember going, wow, and there's things in the market. So I went to see the teacher and the best part was she was an excellent teacher. And she really wanted to teach and be a mentor. And so she said, I think you have the potential to be a very good writer. But we have a long way to go. Okay. So I think that getting to a place like Harvard where so many smart people are there,

and everybody was probably one of the smartest in their or highest achievers in their high school. So all of a sudden, you're no longer kind of big fish, small pond. It's really the opposite. So how you handle that, I think, is, is. important in life. And you know, you and I've talked about my time in entertainment for a long time. It's exactly the same thing that happens in Hollywood, which is writer, director, especially actor, they're always the best, the best looking, whatever, in their community and said,

you need to go to L.A. Well, all of a sudden you get there and guess what? There are 100 other people in that line that are equally or if not better looking and more talented in you. So how do you sort of handle that transition? And I think part of that is ending up really having a ballast, you know, what's important to you and always focus on the things that are strengths of yours. Right. Being committed, not quitting, pushing forward. I think about, look, this might be a bit of a stretch, but I think about Larry Byrd a lot. And, you know, certainly a top 10 all-time basketball player, but he could have quit so easily

just by convincing himself that he can't jump, that he didn't go to finish college, he couldn't hack it, you know. A little slow. A little slow? You know, I mean, all these reasons. You look at the Olympic athletes right there in front of you, and you're like, I don't know.

And something in his head would not, he just, he felt the opposite. He had two things that I think are great for salespeople too, which is self-confidence and a competitive spirit. He was his most competitive guy ever. You know, we read about all these stories. Now, I don't know that if you remember this, I was so lucky when Larry Bird was drafted by the Boston Celtics. So I'm there freshman year.

He's drafted. I got to go see his first game. Really? I was in the garden. They released a white dove and it flew all around and landed on the scoreboard. That's so great. And did he light it up that night? Of course.

Yeah. And he trashed his way all the way through. Day one. Yeah. He was pure. He was pure in the way he played. played, he played a fundamental game, he was tough as nails, but he 100% probably had the greatest self-confidence of anyone I've ever seen. Yeah, yeah.

All right, so good experience, great experience at Harvard. And then as I recall, you did something with the Rotary Club in China? So right after college, I was a financial analyst for Smith Barney in mergers and acquisitions in New York, because that was really kind of your, almost your path from, you know, from you know, college to get to business school. I wanted to go to business school. But I had heard through some older friends about this amazing experience they had had living abroad.

And it was through the Rotary, Rotary International. So I ended up saying, well, maybe I could finish the Wall Street experience, detour, if I was lucky enough, and then go back. And it ended up being just really fortunate that I had some wonderful supporters here with the Greenville Rotary Club. And I applied, and I went. And I studied at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, played basketball there. But I took Mandarin, Chinese culture, Chinese history, made some really lifelong friends.

There were two other Rotarians that are great friends of mine, one from Arkansas and one from Indiana, and got to see that part of the world. And it was all through what Rotary asks you to do is to be an ambassador of goodwill. So it's pretty easy ask. And so the scales are way outweighed toward the benefit I got for what. what Rotary got. What I've loved is that through the years, I've been able to speak to Rotary clubs around the world and tell them about that experience and give back. But I could never repay them for what Rotary did. That's great. What city was that in? Hong Kong.

Hong Kong. Okay. The old Hong Kong. So the new Hong Kong is sadly not anything like the old one. That was when I was there, it was still a British colony. It was just, as a matter In a fact, you know, it was like 1985 and that was when the lease, the 99-year lease with China was coming up and the British basically ceded the colony back to the Chinese. But it wasn't going to happen until like 1998 or something like that. But I was there really, I think, was part of the heyday, which was it was still a British colony, yet very Chinese, dual languages and unbelievable. sort of entrepreneurial spirit. Sadly, I think today, you know, it's part of China. And so they, you've seen all the protests and things. So I was lucky that I got to live there then. It was one of the most remarkable cities in the world. And I could use it as during holiday time. I went to

India. I went to Malaysia. I went to Indonesia, Japan, a month in China, play basketball in China. And so I just think that was one of the greatest years of my life. And I, I would encourage anyone that's coming along who's under, I think, 25 or 26 to apply for a Rotary Scholarship because you can apply to go anywhere you want in the world. Cool. Yeah, as long as there's a Rotary Club there. So I'm forever indebted to the Greenville Rotary for that experience. That's great.

And we've talked about it before at the Noob School, and I think it's in my book somewhere, but I'm a big recommender of taking a year to do something outside of this country. If you get a Rotary Scholarship, that's probably a great thing. But even if you just travel around the world or work on a sheep ranch in Australia, you know, anything to be different. And when I was that age, I was like, I don't know if I want to give up a year of working. I'll get behind. Exactly right. It doesn't matter.

It's a pressure thing. It doesn't matter. So you nailed it. I 100% agree. First of all, I just think, you know, it's just my personal patriotic view on this. I would have loved it if we were all either drafted or have the opportunity to serve the country. for one year or 18 months. Unfortunately, you know, that doesn't really exist anymore.

And you do feel like sometimes if you do that, then you're falling behind. But what, and I find this fascinating, Harvard, they haven't done it yet, but they're edging there in their admissions process is, and what you're really referencing is a gap year. And so that gap between graduating from high school and being a freshman in college, I couldn't agree more. It's a perfect time to go do something. See the world. try several things, live. People from all over the world, Australia, Croatia, New Zealand, they travel, they can't wait to be 18 and have their passport and go.

Right. And I think sometimes Americans are a little too focused on what's my job going to be, what's next. Yeah. I need to go. I got to be a freshman. Yeah. I think it's changing.

I think you'll start to see more universities because you'll end up coming back appreciating the educational experience much more than I think when you just go at 18. I agree with you. And you've seen more resumes than I have, but I like it. when someone says, I spend a year in Australia or something like that, I'm like, oh, this is a different person. And they have a much grander worldview. Right.

And I think that that's especially growing up here where we love it so much. And it is the best place in the world. I've been all over, you've been all over, and we chose to be back in South Carolina. But there are some amazing places. Yeah. And you learn a lot about yourself, but you really learn a lot about other people and other, there are other ways to look at things. And so that for me is, you know me, I love travel.

And you do too. You're getting ready to go play your horn in Spain. That's right. That's right. Well, I want to back up a little bit because we skipped over the investment banking thing. So college investment banking, then the year in China. But I know what that's like. At least I've had friends tell me about it.

I mean, it's a lot of like you're working for an investment bank. You're a noob. You're a newbie. You are. And even if you went to Harvard, you're having to make 100 calls a day. Tell us about that experience of what you learned about sales. Well, so my job was not really sales-oriented, but it taught me about sales. And I was an analyst, a financial analyst for Smith Barney in their merger and acquisition area.

So what that really meant was I was doing all the background work for prospective mergers or acquisitions or purchases of companies. I worked for the partners, so you're right. I was doing 100 hours a week, if not more. You really didn't sleep a whole lot, but you were learning so much. Those were the first times at age 22, 23, that I worked on projects, and we were flying to Seattle, and we flew to Vancouver and we flew to Los Angeles. Wait a second now. I just remember the story you told me about your first big business trip as a young investment banker, and you all, flew to Seattle and went to the hotel.

And didn't you follow the guy into his room? And you thought it was like, you have a good memory. It was too, you thought it was too to a room. Well, it's a little bit embarrassing, but it's a funny story. And yes, and it shows a little bit of naivete. Yeah, me too. It was my first big project working there, and we were working on a project in Houston. Yeah.

Okay. And it was for an engineering company. I'd done all this work and I prepared these huge books and these binders and rushed to the airport with my, you know, the boss. meets me there. I've been working 48 straight hours. And back then we didn't have computers. We had to use word processors for people upstairs. And you waited and looked at it and edited it. So it's so funny when I kid my nephews and you probably do that with your kids about social media and iPhones and all that. We didn't have any of that. I did common stock comparisons

by hand. But I remember I was so excited because we were flying down to Houston. We were staying at the Houston, I think it was the Weston Gallery, or one of the, one of the, you know, one of the the Four Seasons Gallery, a really nice hotel. And I remember calling my mom said, well, I'll call you from down there. And, you know, it's my first road trip. And I've probably been at the company for about five or six months. So I was a little bit nervous. Did I do the presentation right? You know, you're with the partner. Yeah. I get on the plane. The door closes. We're fly to Houston. We get there. We're a little bit delayed. We get there around midnight. I'd never been on a business trip. So we go up and he's checking in and I'm just kind of just standing off the side.

He's signing all his stuff or whatever. And so he kind of looks at me after he gets his stuff and says, ready? I'm like, yeah, I've got my book bags and my suitcase. And so, you know, we get on the elevator and go up to, you know, like the 19th floor or something like that. And we walk down the hall and I'm, you know, just following him. I assume he probably thinks, and stay on the floor or whatever. But anyway, long story short, he opens the door, goes in, and I just follow him right into the room. And I'll never forget, we laughed about this for many, many years.

He turns to me and goes, Billy, what are you doing? And I really don't know, it's not like a trick question. Yeah. I go, this is our room, right? So all of a sudden it clicks for him. He goes, Billy, this is a business trip. We get our own rooms. You need to go back down.

to the lobby and get your room. So I learned that's so funny. But the fun part was he and I laughed about it for many, many years. That's so funny because I mean on, you know, basketball trips and stuff like that, it's always two to the room. And so we've, that's a good memory big because that's been a long time. It was in there. That's a lot.

And it was in there. Okay. So you took that path and it got you to, you wanted to be in business. You want to be a business person. And did you think you wanted to be an investment banker full time at that point? So I'd say probably until about midway through. So it's a two-year job. And then you kind of go back to business school or do whatever.

I ended up doing the rotary thing. But yeah, I loved it. First of all, the learning curve is so steep. You're dealing with ultra-smart people. The mergers and acquisitions world at that time was really hopping. It's in the paper every single day, front page of Wall Street Journal. So I was intellectually challenged and I was working with really smart people. Yeah.

And I thought, I just thought every day was like a sponge. I'd say about a year and a half into it, I started to realize some of the price I was paying because my buddies were going out, dancing. My family came to see me and had Broadway tickets and I couldn't go. So that started to weigh on me just a little bit. But what really transformed me was winning the Rotary, being in Hong Kong. I was in a tiny room in a graduate dorm with all Chinese students. And no heating, no air conditioning. And I had a ton of time to, there was no TV or anything,

a ton of time to just reflect. And I think what hit me that year was, you know, intellectually, financially, all those things were up here in terms of being on Wall Street and merger. but I felt like in the end I wasn't really producing anything. You know, I wasn't making anything. And while I liked it and I love deal making, I thought maybe there's got to be more. So when I came back to business goal, I think I had probably decided I don't think I will go back to Wall Street. I loved it.

Yeah. I loved it. But I missed. And something else happened that, you know, that's interesting that you kind of, you always are great. reminded me of these things. I was working on a deal and I'd been there about 15 months

and I'd gotten very close to one of the executives at a company. I think it was in Texas. And we were working, I was working hard, we were getting ready to fly down there. You know, we'd known each other for two months, pulling this together. And my boss walked in

and looked at me, he said, deals off. We're not, so what do you mean? He said, well, it's just not going to work. One of the parties is not interested, so, you know, shelve it, and we're moving on to something else. So I remember a couple days later, first of all, I was heartbroken, but a couple days later,

I was on the phone with that same friend just talking to him. And my boss kind of came and said, who are you talking to him? And I said, oh, I'm talking to Steve, the guy down at, and he goes, hang up. I remember hanging up, and he told me to come in it, and he said, listen, that deal's over. We don't have time. You need to start focusing on these other things. So I probably didn't know it at the moment, but it probably affected me a little bit because I was like, well, wait a minute, what about the relationship?

What about the friendship? And no, I'm not saying this, you know, overly critical of the partner. He's just trying, he wants to make money for the firm. But I think that that might have dissuaded me just a little bit from, you know, I think life's more than just a pure transaction. Yeah. You know, we all have to do transactions and, you know, the best part of a sales thing. is when you close. But I think for me, the combination of that memory,

missing a lot of things I thought were fun in life while I was an analyst, and then being in Hong Kong going, I think there's some other avenues. So it had me open-minded when I came back to business school. And then you went ahead and said, well, I'm going to go to business school. And, of course, you got into Harvard Business School,

which again, arguably the best business school, with an idea that you were going to put your hands, antenna out and figure out what you did want to do with that. Right. Okay. And that is, I think we all know it's famous for being a case study schools. They give you case studies of situations you study it and what would you do kind of that.

You learned a lot there? I did. And I thought that the case study method was fantastic for most of the subjects. It didn't work nearly as well for accounting, for example. I think you probably need to learn the principles a little bit better. And that's always been an open criticism about. the case. But the way that I ended up getting my job was really through a case, you know, which I'll tell, yeah, my second year. But to answer your question, I think that I loved coming in every day

to every class, whether it was marketing, finance, human resource management. It didn't really matter or competitive strategy. And you were looking at a real world example that had happened. It could have been six months ago because they had to have written the case. But usually, you know, we studied, you know, the whole Coca-Cola, New Coke, you know, Sappoo. But what the case study method in Harvard does is put you in the role of the manager. Yeah. In different parts of that case. And what would you have done? Right. And you don't have all of the data. You don't have all of the perfect, you know, answers for what you need, but you take what you have and you make the best decision. You know, you don't make the best decision you can.

And then you navigate if it's the wrong decision or what and say, how do I get out of that? How do I make a detour? So I think that the practice helped me a lot to be a manager. I'm not sure that Harvard's the perfect place if you're not interested in management. I always used to kind of kid to some of my friends were guys that had come from, you know, selling toilet paper for P&G or tires, you know, Goodrich or something like that. And what they really wanted was a track to Wall Street. How do I get to Wall Street? And they've ended up having fantastic careers there.

But what I really loved about it was you learned in so many different ways things that managers did right and things that managers did wrong. And how do you make decisions when you don't have perfect input from data? Well, that's good. You probably learned a lot more at business school than undergrad, I would guess. About that, for sure. Yeah. I don't know.