Noob School - Episode 95: From Harvard to Los Angeles: Billy Campbell's Story (Part 2)

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Welcome back to part two of the Noob School podcast with Billy Campbell. The stories told in this episode will surely keep you on the edge of your seat. From his time studying a Harvard, his diving into the entertainment industry, such as becoming the president of Discovery Inc, to the harrowing story of his survival of the 2009 crash landing of US Airways Flight 1549 on the Hudson River, you won't want to miss even these few bits of his amazing life story. If you haven't already checked out part 1, be sure to click here: • From Harvard to Los Angeles: Billy Ca... To see all of what Noob School has to offer, check out our website: SchoolForNoobs.com I'm going to be sharing my secrets on all my social channels, but if you want them all at your fingertips, start with my book, Sales for Noobs: https://amzn.to/3tiaxsL Subscribe to our newsletter today: https://bit.ly/3Ned5kL #noobschool #salestraining #sales #training #entrepreneur #salestips #salesadvice

And so then this is when I would say you take your crazy Ivan. So what a crazy Ivan is, I think the Russian, we learned this in, what was the movie with Sean Connery, is the U-boat, the submarine commander? Yeah, the hunt for Red October. Hunt for Red October, yeah. He was Crazy Ivan where the Russian sub every now and then would be going along and just take a left for no reason. Didn't know what he was going to, right.

And then it would get straightened out and take, you know. So I think your crazy eye was when you interviewed with ABC just as an on-campus interview, right? No. No. So this is, but no, but you brought up. It was close. No, you're very close. And as usual, you're kind of nailing a really salient thing that I like to talk about when I'm giving talks to people in business school or high school or whatever.

So I went to class. This was go back to the case. It was a marketing case on a company that owned television stations called Capital Cities. One of the most well-respected companies in the country at the time, run by superb people, Tom Murphy and Dan Burke. The case was really should Capital Cities, which owned and operated television stations and a handful of markets around the country, should they continue to use a rep firm to sell, John Blair, who did a fact. fantastic job for them or bring it in-house. It was certainly going to be, based on the analysis,

probably more economical as they grew, to bring it in-house because you didn't have that extra payment. But they'd had such a good relationship with John Blair. Do you sever that partnership? And what if it doesn't work? Anyway, that was the case. The thing that was material and great about Harvard was that almost every day when you had a case,

the protagonist would come. and talk about it. Yeah. You know? So all of a sudden, we're having the case, which was really interesting and fascinating. As a matter of fact, the end of it is Cap Cities did bring it in-house, you know, tough call, but ended up being the right call for them. But the CEO came, Dan Burke, came to our class and talked and answered questions.

I asked the question. And so the class was over. Cap Cities, a separate thing for one second, Cap Cities over the last year before this case, you know, we even had this case, had acquired ABC. So this small kind of minnow had swallowed this whale of a network. And so it was now the new company with Cap Cities ABC. Dan Burke, the CEO of the company, came to school. He was a Harvard Business School grad and came to talk about the case.

Well, guess what? And here's the lesson that I try to give everybody. He's standing there, you know, we're sitting in his seat at the end of the, and the class ends. And he has one more class. because they have two cases they're going to do that'll start in 15 minutes. Well, everyone left. Except for me.

Well, I didn't stay for any reason other than to just go up to him and say, thank you. And I had asked him a question. And thanks for answering my question. And anyway, it's nice to see you. So he kind of looks at me and he says, well, you're very welcome. That was a good question. You know, what are you up to? And I kind of then had an open door and said, well, I'm second.

year and I'm thinking about what to do next year. And I'm just curious, we have 600 or 700 companies that are recruiting us, but you're not one of them. I wonder why. And he smiled and said, well, Billy, not only are we not recruiting, you know, not hiring right now, we're firing as quickly as we can. So I kind of thought it was tongue in cheek or whatever, but they did lay off 3,000 people as part of a down size. But I sort of said, well, I guess that answers my question. And he said something interesting, John, he looked at me and he said, you know what? We're always looking for good people. If you're really interested, why don't you send me a letter and a resume? And, you know, who knows? So I go back to my room. I write him handwritten note, put it in the mail.

And two days later, his office calls and says, Mr. Burke would like you to fly down and have lunch with him in New York. Wow. So it was crazy. And so I'd get on the plane. I have no idea what we're going to talk about. But because they had just acquired ABC and all of the creative was in Los Angeles. At lunch, he and the head of ABC direct were had me at lunch. And midway through, they said, well, we would be interested in having you join us and move to Los Angeles to learn programming and be our liaison. So I'm sitting there. I'm 25. Let's see. At the time I'm 27, you know, I'd been on Wall Street and then the rotary year, so I'm 27. It's going to be my real first job. And he said, you know, what do you think? And I really had about five.

seconds to think about it. And I kind of went back to probably the moment of coming to Christchurch, which was, you know what? What do you have to lose? And put your hand up. There are great people. I'd done the research on it. I'd never read a script in my life. I grew up like you did. We didn't think about that going up. And so I said, let's go. Well, that decision to go out there and learn programming in my first show was McGiver. Yeah, okay? Yeah. Was incredible because I was in a new world. It was a fascinating world. And I realized that a door opened for me that had never opened before, which was I love creativity, the same way you love music. Absolutely. And so I got there and I loved working with writers and directors. I thought I ended up learning a lot and I was pretty good at it.

Yeah. In terms of that bond. And it ended up being this career that, you know, had me go from different companies and move up in terms of responsibility. And I've, I've just had a lot of life of, you know, living sort of a television life. And I loved it. But the lesson, the most important lesson, I think, is that put your hand up. Yeah. Be willing to, in talks, I don't know if this will resonate with you. Long time ago, I used to give talks and I would tell kids, I said, reach for the brass ring. And guess what? A lot of kids came up to me after and said, love your talk, Mr. Campbell. What is the brass ring? Okay. And so I realized he, he I was getting a little bit older or I needed to sort of use a different metaphor.

But really the point is, you know, be willing to go out of your comfort zone. Yeah. Be willing to raise your hand when someone asks you to say, anybody want to try this? Yeah. As long as it's smart and measured. Right. Right. Don't do dumb stuff.

And we don't always know if it's going to be dumb or not. But in this case, I had done some research. I had met him. Yeah. They were one of the most well-respected companies. And what the heck? What the heck? So I go to California thinking it'll be a two or three-year job and I end up being out there for 25 years.

That's unbelievable. Now, this might also just be in my head, Billy, because sometimes I'll make things up and remember them. But didn't you say to them, you know, what would you want a guy from South Carolina, you know, who's an Eagle Scout and doesn't drink? Why would you want a guy like that in Hollywood? And the guy said, that's exactly what we need or something like that? He did. Yeah, you do have a laser-like memory on. You know, I was, I sat with him and one of the great things about Dan Burke and I always

called a Mr. Burke and he used to tell me some, Billy, you can't call me Mr. Burke, you know, because you just call me Dan. I always struggled with that, you know, being Southern. But he was so wise that every time that I was with him, and today I could do it, but back then I wanted to record. Like I tried it once. I was in the hotel room. I said, can I put something in my pocket to record what he says?

Because I wanted to never forget anything he said. Yeah. He said something that is always. stayed with me about business which is you know don't ever take your job so seriously because in the end it will not take you as seriously as you think it should okay yeah and that's proven you know to be sage advice yeah but I remember sitting with and he allowed me to have that kind of conversation and and I remember talking to him and I said what why would you choose me I've never read a

screenplay whatever and he said what we're trying to do is to is to understand that world because we don't have any real understanding of it. So we want you to go in there. You're as new as we are. Learn as much as you can. And you will be, I want you to be one foot there and one foot here. Now that caused issues because the people out there thought I was a spy.

But eventually, I think I showed them that my passion really was out there with the creative people. And so I learned so much about myself, but also just learning how cameras work and learning, you know, actors. Everybody thinks that they can act. Don't you think?

Everybody thinks they can act. Yeah. That's the hardest job in the world. Yeah. The minute that you turn a camera on and say, okay, be somebody else. Yeah. Be somebody else. So I have such respect for actors and what they have to do.

Yeah. And they constantly are being judged. And, you know, every, you're only as good as your last audition. Yeah. So anyway, I learned a time. I loved the shows that I worked on. I got to go from there to Warner Brothers. And then I was developing shows.

So the first one was managing shows. Like we had the shows on the schedule. And then I got to go and that's where we did ER and Superman and, you know, early edition and a handful of shows. So ER, that had to be, I mean, is that your biggest hit ever? Well, I think it's how it comes back to how you measure it. So in terms of audience size and impact for sure. Yeah. So that show aired for like 15 years on NBC.

The first year that it was on NBC, the NBC company probably made about two. $250 million just on that show. Okay? But so many people watched it and it impacted. And it also was shot. The director never got enough credit because he filmed something with a steady cam that allowed you to feel like you were part of the ER, which I think is part of the magic show.

Obviously, you had a great cast and all that stuff. But that ended up being the most watched show that I've ever worked on. But probably the greatest show that I think I worked on for me, And there's so many, I love them all, they're like your kids, but probably was planet Earth when I was at Discovery. Because that was seen all over the world. And that impacted people. And I loved the stories we were telling because people were naysayers and said, no one's going to watch 11 hours of nature programming. And the next thing you know, it's the highest rated show in the history of the company.

Yeah. So I know ABC and then you got into ABC television and then Warner Brothers, did you go from Warner Brothers to Discovery? I went with, I went from Warner Brothers. No, I had several stops in between. I went from Warner Brothers. I was working for Les Moon Vez. Yes. And Les was hired to be the president of CBS.

Yes. So I then went to CBS with him. Okay. I have a less moon vests story. Okay. Do you remember? Well, a lot of people have less moon vans. Okay.

So I go to see you at your office at CBS. And the secretary let me in. She goes, she said, he's on the phone right now. Won't you just sit right there? I'm like, all right, you know, so I'm sitting here. Just me. Secretary's over there, and you're back here on the phone with a door shut. Les Moon does walks in.

Now, I don't know who Les Moon vests is. He's just some guy. So he comes walking in, and he looks at me like, where's Billy? I said, he's on the phone. He'll be off in the minute. And he looked at me like he was going to kill me. I'm sure. And then he walked right in your office and shut the door behind.

He's on the phone. He'll be right with you. Why don't you sit next to me, Les? That's my only story with this. You probably have more. Oh, I certainly have more. And, you know, look, Les gave me an opportunity when he hired me at Warner Brothers to run drama development. And we worked together for seven years because I then went to CBS.

And we were kind of turning in and around. We did everybody loves Raymond and really sort of got that network going in the right direction. He is an incredibly smart, charismatic guy, a great programmer. Yeah. He was a former actor. So when I would sit next to him during casting sessions, it was just nub school. I mean, I, because I would see an actor and think they nailed the role. And he said, what do you think? And I say, God, that was tremendous. They did. They nailed it. And he goes, they did. But here's what you got to figure out. Can they nail it every week? And I started to learn, you know, just sort of learning at the knee a little bit. Yeah, I have, I have great, um, uh, fond memories of our times, we accomplished a lot. I ended up leaving there and going to start Miramax television. Okay. You started that up? I did. Okay. I was hired by the Weinstein brothers

to come do that. And naturally, you know, sort of the elephant in the room, you know, my friends always say, you do realize you worked for less Moon Ves and then Harvey Weinstein. Okay. And I do. But I'll, I'll say, you know, the positives to talk about them were they were both genius in what they did. The personal part of things that they did, I don't approve of, and I never really knew about, and were disappointing. But I learned so much from being in those kind of pressure cookers and also the people that just thought creatively all the time. But then those led me, again, it's a little bit like your foundation in building. Those led me to my favorite job I've ever had, which was to run discovery.

Yeah. And to move back to the East Coast to Washington, D.C., and work in Silver Spring, and we had 13 channels. And it was, it was just, it was really nirvana in terms of being a creative person. Well, and I've never seen you so happy is those years. Now, when you took over discovery, was it as, I mean, how successful was it? Because I don't really remember it very well before you got there. It might be just because I paid attention because you were there.

But as you do a lot of stuff to make it much better immediately? Well, so let's just put it this way. And you know that having played basketball together, we did a lot of stuff. Okay? I happen to be the president. So I got blamed for things and I got credit for things that some I deserve, some I didn't deserve. But on the whole, you're only as good as the team you have, you know, and when you're running sales. I mean, your people that are knocking on doors is who you have to depend on.

I hired really great people, both as programmers, as market. and especially on the sales side. When I got there, the company was a little bit more abundant. I mean, it was things that sort of, I'll give you an example. So everybody talked about Shark Week. Yeah. Okay? And that was one of the, you know, original concepts that Discovery put them on the map.

Yeah. It was a week in programming in the summer, every summer, and always did pretty well. But when I got there, the ratings were like on a nose dive. And I think the ratings prior to me getting there were probably down about 35. And I couldn't figure it out. I mean, everybody talked about Shark Week. We all knew it. It was a great brand.

So as we started to dive in and uncovered a little bit, several things that happened. One, it had gotten a little stale. They were using sort of the same shark footage they used for a long time. So there was not much new stuff that you'd seen for years. There was very little personality to it. And the marketing just wasn't, you know, sort of popping. I did something very controversial, you know, and got the team on board. but I went to my boss and the board and they looked at me.

I'm sure they looked at me like, you know, I was crazy at first. But I said, let's just give it a shot and we will stay true to what Shark Week is. It'll be about science. But let's just market it a little differently. So ended up having a Shark Week hosted by Heidi Klum. Okay? We took her down to the Bahamas. We taught her to scuba dive.

We taught her to feed the sharks. We obviously had a few shots of her coming out of the water, you know, doing it like that. ratings were up 46%. Now the reason was not just because, oh, you had a beautiful woman in there. That helped a lot. But it was the ancillary things which were we improved the way that we shot. We used new technology. We did stuff where for the first time ever we captured, and I give the crew,

a big checkmark for this, we ended up filming Great Whites, breaching, you know, chasing a mechanical seal off the coast of South Africa. And at that time, very few people even knew or thought that Great Whites breached there that it was only most out on the barrier reef. So we had new footage. We marketed it differently, but also the fact that Heidi was doing it and talking about it, we got coverage all over the world in different media than we ever had. So it ended up being great.

So it goes back to your question, which was, I think that when I got there, you know, people were risk averse. I allowed them to take risks. We brought in some new people. I got the best sales guy in the world who started to work with advertisers to allow them to participate in the programming instead of just buying the programming. And it ended up being great. But I loved the fact that we put great personalities on, like Mike Rowe with dirty jobs, the deadliest catch people up there. You know, Mythbusters.

Anthony Bourdain's first show. So how did you get, who had the idea for Deadliest Catch? Well, we had 13 channels. And so we were bombarded with ideas all the time. Okay. I don't really remember exactly where that came from, but I would probably, there were production companies that did a lot of nature type and what I call real reality, not Kardashian scripted reality,

but real reality shows. that we prided ourselves on putting on, unscripted stuff on the air. And I give some credit to a fellow named Clark Bunting, who was the general manager of the Discovery Channel at the time, who really did a wonderful job of bringing these things to us and having his team work on them. So it ended up being a great hit. What's really interesting is Mike Roe was the narrator,

was the voiceover for Deadliest Cash. He was. Okay. And then ended up trying him on his own show. And he became a runaway hit. Great guy. Yeah. Super guy. I bet he's a great guy.

I know that's one of the things I was so happy for you is you're getting able to hang out with all these people and participate in, you know, these things you're doing around the world. I know you did a lot when you got really hot when you were sponsoring the bike team. And we were winning Tour de France and all that kind of stuff. And it was a discovery team, right? It was. Well, another good memory you have. I was flying across the country and was reading the paper that the U.S. Postal had sponsored the U.S. Postal cycling team with Lance Armstrong as the lead writer for five or six years, and they were decided to let the sponsorship go. And so I remember just thinking to myself, it was like, well, why shouldn't it be the Discovery Channel team?

I never really believing that I could either get my bosses or the board to, but I sort of started to investigate it. you know what we're a global company you know I did some research to see how many millions of people around the world love cycling yeah much more at the time than Americans yeah but we had this American Lance yeah the most who was really a hero at the time yeah so it was it was a magnetic personality and became a magnetic sport highest ratings in the history of some of those channels and certainly of the tour but I remember going and finally saying I think that he can be a spokesman for us it'll be awesome all

over the world. You know, the three big races are in Italy, France, and then Spain. It'll be great for those markets for us. And it's going to say Discovery Channel. So the first year, John, when we, my calculation ended up being right in that I knew Lance was only going to ride for maybe one more year. So we bet. I really was betting that he would win. Now, a whole other conversation about, you know, the way that they were doping and doing all that. But quite frankly, the whole sport was like that. They just did it, ended up doing it better. It doesn't make it right or whatever.

But at that time, I remember thinking Lance and the guys that we have on the team, the nine riders, are the best in the world. He's the most competitive. If he wins, our media exposure is going to be through the roof. So we ended up getting just in the first year for the entire deal. We had a three and a half year deal, which we got four tours. We ended up winning the yellow jersey on three of them. them. We got a little bit lucky with some of the other good riders we had later who were from

other countries. But when Lance won, we paid off the investment about 12x in the first year. And so it ended up being a great sponsor. We had programming. We were able to use the science of the cycling and how they train in our science channel and Discovery Channel. So it was great. You know, the part later where, you know, people say, well, you know, you were in business with Lance Armstrong, whatever. You know, he's still my friend. He's the best cyclist that's ever been. And you know what?

I don't deny that. What they did was wrong. But you and I could talk about sports doping for a long time. Sure. You know, in terms of that. But that sponsorship was very successful for us. It was awesome. So one other thing about your time up there.

When I visited, I came to see you, but also my son, Jack, was interning. while he was in college, you were kind enough to have him as an intern. What I found out about, first of all, when I walked into your offices, I felt like I was walking into like a Silicon Valley company, like a Google or something, because it was just the energy level. There were young people. You know, it just seemed like a very... It was a great headquarters.

It was a great headquarters. And then I've come to find out that you hired something like 80 interns a year, people who want to get into the entertainment business. And I think that's a good lesson for people, particularly as you start to get some responsibility, is you have such a chance to help others when you get that. And you certainly did that in that role. Well, first of all, I appreciate you saying that and thank you.

And it was awesome to have him there. But it's not quite as pure as just, you know, being able to help. other people, whatever. What we did was we helped ourselves because we hired really eager, smart, young people who were thrilled to be there. And one, you were able to get great work and great thought that you, you know, that they were younger, so they would bring in a different fresh perspective. But you also doing exactly what you said.

You were in a way recruiting. Right. Because once you've worked with someone in an internship, it's the greatest investment a corporation can ever make. Because it doesn't cost that much. And you never know who's coming through. Is the next Steve Jobs? Yeah, grab them.

Yeah. So it ended up, and listen, you've probably had good internships. I know you've hired great interns. I just think it's a way of giving back, but it's also really smart in terms of ROI. Because it doesn't cost much, and you get a lot. It's both. It really is both. Well, I remember how sad I was when you,

You left Discovery, and I'm sure you were just as sad, if not sadder. And it was some kind of like a corporate shakeup or company bought or what exactly happened. It goes back to, you know, what Mr. Burke, Dan Burton sort of always said. I love that job so much and it was so much fun. And I built that whole team. And we were clicking. We had so many great shows. My boss was one of the top female executives in the business and was wonderful to me, Judith

Mikhail and you know she ended up you know leaving the company and when she left that sort of triggered a lot of management shake-up. I really hoped that I would get to be the CEO but I didn't and they brought in someone from another company and I thought that we would probably work together for a long time I was going to do the creative and all in the end that was his call he sort of said he wanted to flatten the company And so it was really, it was personally disappointing. Yeah. It was a very sad experience, mostly because I loved it so much.

Yes. And we had accomplished so much. And I saw, I mean, at the time, after all those years, 40 crews working for four years around the world, we were just getting ready two months away from premiering planet earth. So it was painful and disappointing. But, you know, that's part of. business. And I was in the big, you know, the big fish bowl. And, you know, I probably,

while I would have loved to have stayed and selfishly, I think, I think the company would have done better. Yeah. That's just the way I look at it. I think our programming would have been better. But I met so many great people. I had such a wonderful team. I love the opportunities that everyone had. We've stayed very close. And I've gone on to do some really interesting things. Sure. You know that I probably never would have gotten to do. And, you know, now I'm very involved in the travel business, which I like a lot. So it was a disappointment, but it's a little bit like, you know, when we lost the last game to Great Falls. Yeah.

You know, I missed the last shot or we would have won the state championship. I never forget it. But, you know what? We did the best we could. Yeah. And we played as far as we could. Yeah. You move on.

Absolutely. Next game. Next game. Absolutely. Well, I was sad, too, because I thought that was such a great spot for you and so good for the people around the world. to have that option to watch that kind of programming versus some of the other pro, the majority of the other programming. So before we get to some of the other things you've done, like I know Grizzly Man and

some of that kind of stuff, let's talk about another reason you're famous, which is the flight. Right. Yeah. So Billy and I were talking when I'll come around the exact dates, I'm sure you do, but we were talking and we're going to get together. And at the last second, Billy sent me an email and said, hey, I can't get together. Friday, I got to go to New York real quick. I'll see you like next week or something like that.

And then Billy was on the flight that went down in the Hudson with Captain Sullaburger. So won't you tell us that story and kind of what you learned from it? Well, first of all, I'm not famous, but Sutherberg is famous, as he should be, for saving my life. you know that it's such a seminal event in my life and people always say how did it affect you how did it change you whatever and I think the simplest answer on that is that you realize or I realize that every day's a bonus day and kind of don't sweat the small stuff some of those little metaphors really make sense. I'm also very faithful. And so I'm 100% sure that God had a major role in me being here. I can't explain it. It was a very hard moment for me one month later

when I was in Los Angeles and I had survived. All of us survived and a flight into Buffalo, everyone died. And so I couldn't balance it. I didn't really know. But I did take from that time that, you know what, live every day is the best you possibly can. You know, we've all say that in here, but it was really kind of right here in terms of that and have, when relationships are precious, treat them that way. That day was just a, you know, kind of a normal day. The reason that I, the irony of this, John, was, you know, because you and I were going to get together and I was interviewing to be the CEO of the Weather Channel.

So there was some irony. I had flown to Boston the day before and come back. And there was, I was in my hotel room getting ready to come back. I was coming to the beach, going to the beach. And my mom was going to pick me up. And I was going to take my little nephew's duck hunting for the long weekend. And I remember the weatherman sort of saying, watching TV, it was a blizzard. Blizzard conditions tomorrow.

And I was like, go great. This is going to mess that up. For some reason, it all, it was blowing like crazy to about 11 o'clock. and it blew out. And in its own bizarre way, that had an impact. Because when I tell my story about the whole event, and it's a long story, and so I would encourage you to,

it's on YouTube, but you want to watch it, about what happened. I really focus on 12 miracles that happened. And that was one, that the fact that this blizzard came through, and as you know, after a storm comes through,

there's always a calm. Well, that calm allowed the Hudson River to be flat and just, you know, as slick as, as could be. And we were able to land. Yeah. That was part of it. But there were a lot of other things about I had a, I had a genius pilot who made the right

calls. He was a glider pilot. Yeah. He focused on safety. Um, we landed at, you know, 345, just so, yes, you're right. It was, uh, July, it was January 15th, 2009. So I remember to the, to the day. I figured to the hour.

Yeah. But, you know, it's, it was one of those things where, um, I think the lesson for most people is you don't know. We're not given anything other than right now. Right. You know, there's no guarantee for tomorrow. And there's certainly no guarantee beyond that. So plan for those things, but don't plan so much that you forget about the present and you forget about today.

So give everything you've got every day. And you kind of let the cards fall where they may because, you know, things happen that, you know, you're on an airplane and all of a sudden that you feel explosion and their 50 geese have knocked your engines out, you know, and you're going to crash. We just, we were very fortunate to be in New York. And he made the call to land on the river. And there had never been a successful river waterland where a jumbo jet where everyone survived. I was in the back. Yeah, all the way in the back, right?

All the window was in the next to last road, 25A. And so it didn't look very good. Yeah. But, you know, like you, I'm kind of a believer. And I knew in my heart that if there were a chance, then I'd survive. Yeah. But I had to have a chance. Yeah.

And he gave me a chance. Yeah. But I also, I think the other important message is we all, and when I give the talk, I talk about when things don't look so good. There are lots of days in our lives when things don't look so good for whatever reason. Yeah. You know, business doesn't work out. Your health, family issues.

Yeah. Well, don't give up. Yeah. And also appreciate what you have. And for me, and this sounds crazy, I was pretty calm about it. And I think that was the conversation with God, which I kind of had quickly, because once Sullenberger said, Brace for Impact, we had 59 seconds before we hit the water. So the first part of that for me was talking to God.

So, God, at the time I was 49, I said, you know, I've had 49 great years, but I'd really love another 49. But that's not my call. Yeah. So that's up to you. Yeah. And then the second sort of part of it was I had this kind of stunning. You probably had it with music. And it was almost a kaleidoscope of life memories.

You know, us playing hoop, winning the state championship in football. I always kind of kid and say kissing pretty girls along the way. But really of my family, my friends. Beautiful things. And it was going like, you know, it happened in like 20 seconds. But then the survival instinct kicked in. It's like, okay, Pilly, you're in the back of the plane.

You're on the window. It doesn't look so good. Where are you going to go if you survived this? And that's when I decided I had to go to the back because that was the closest exit. And we ended up getting a little bit of another break, which was when he brought the plane in, you know, he's gliding the whole way. And about 400 feet above the water, he lifts the nose. This is part of being a great glider part.

pilot. And that allowed us to do a rear belly landing. Now, it was hard in the back. And, you know, I got slammed into that front seat, knocked the seal out of my window and knocked a hole in the bottom of the plane. So all of a sudden, you know, the minute that we dip, we come up, we dip again. I don't know how deep we are, whether we're going to explode or whatever. But we come to a stop and I go, oh my gosh, I survive this crash. I got to get out of here. Because the water is pouring through the window. And I never thought about it, but kids always asked me when I give talks, they say, well, how cold was the water? And it was 35 degrees. But I didn't feel it. Yeah. Because I had to adrenaline, you know, just get out. Yeah. We went to the back,

but because we had done that then, and there was water coming in, the back of the plane, the pressure would not allow us to open the door. Okay. Which ended up being another miracle break. Because had we been able to do that, the whole thing would have flooded and there's no way in that water. Yeah. But because of that, I then turned to the front and I, and I, that might have been the, the, the most frightening, because the water was rushing up. There was nowhere to go because everybody was in the aisles. And the water came,

but it stopped right here. So just think about that. Yeah. So you've got this much room to the ceiling? I thought I was going to drown, but it stopped. Yeah. And then I got to get out. And then I started climbing over the seats

on the right hand side. I couldn't go very fast because the water was at a high level. Yeah. But when I finally got up to the wings, I thought I might survive. but there was no room out there because everybody was standing on the wings.

So I ended up having to go up to the front and that's when Sullenberger and the co-pilot, Jeff Skiles, said, come on, Bill, you can come and get him down into the raft. And I jumped down in the raft and he jumped down next to me and that was sort of the first time I really felt like, wow, I'm going to survive. The fun part was so my mom's driving,

so I call her, I still have my blackberry. Everything I was soaked. That was another miracle, my blackberry worked. Still worked. Still worked, okay, at that time. Did not have the iPhone yet. And I call her and she's just driving down the road, you know, and I go, mom, I just need to tell you I'm okay. She goes, what do you mean?

I go, well, we crashed in the Hudson River. She's like, what? I'm okay. I got to go. I'll call you later, but just let everybody know I'm okay. And so then, you know, I start getting, you know, all of a sudden, you know, messages are coming because people start to hear. One of the funniest messages comes because I had made a deal with Ted Cople to come from ABC doing. nightline when he left and he came to do documentaries for us at discovery.

And one of my favorite messages was Ted Cople says, Billy, some people will do just about anything to get on television, which I thought was really clever. And then he said, I just want you to know, my wife and I are so excited, you know, to see you and give you a big hug. Anyway, cheers, Ted. And then he goes, P.S., what were you doing in the back of the planet? So it was a great, it was a great Well, yeah, it is a miracle.

We're so thankful. And also Mark Hood from Greenville. Mark was in first class. Was he? So when I saw him up in the front of the plane, I mean in the terminal, he was dry. And I said, were you on this plane? He's still had a cocktail. It was funny.

And then I don't remember exactly how it happened, but you didn't like, you didn't have a change of clothes because you were going for like one day. And so you were on the Today show the next morning. Because I'm an entertainment guide, they were all calling me. And the same suit, right? The wet suit? Yes, that's all I had. But to the credit of the Carlyle Hotel, forever indebted. That night I got to the hotel about, you know, back to the hotel about 11.

They had taken this back to the airport for a debriefing mall. So I got back to the hotel. I was so exhausted. I don't know if you've ever been to the Carlo. This is a commercial for the Carlo because it is so beautiful. And I think the thread counts, the highest thread count, cheat you could ever have Egyptian cotton. So I remember I'd taken like a 30 minute long hot shower.

I still couldn't really fathom that that had happened nor that I was really alive. Yeah. Against all odds. But I remember kind of getting in the bed and I'd given the car law was so nice. I said, I don't have any other clothes. Yeah. And they said, we will dry clean these for you overnight. And we'll bring them back to you at 5 in the morning, which they did.

And but I was lying in bed and it was so surreal big because I'm watching CNN and I see myself on television, you know, and I'm lying there with, you know, in this beautiful hotel room. It was such a juxtaposition of what had happened that, anyway, I just sort of, you know, said another prayer and went to sleep. But it was one of those things like being in the ER, these doctors who they never get to sleep, I put my head down and then it was like the alarm went off, it was five o'clock, got my suit, went and did the Today Show, and then I flew back on the same flight home. My mom picked me up and I went to Bojangles.

Yeah. So. You don't want to miss any biscuits if you don't have to. Well, what a story. It's unbelievable. Yeah, and you gave some great lessons in there about not giving up. I mean,

sometimes if you're, if you really think you're screwed, you just do the next thing, right? You just do the next step. Yeah, do the next thing. Okay, well, let's shift gears and talk about like some of the stuff you're doing now and some of the projects

you're working on. I know a little bit. I know about Grizzly Man. I watched Grizzly, but that was that discovery. That was that discovery. Yeah, that was a great movie. And then you did a movie about the flight and you used a wonderful tune to open up the whole film. Still Bill Withers, lovely day, right? Well, that was the different flight. So that was the honor of 9-11. Yes. Okay. So that was the Shanksville flight. So you did that? We did that at Discovery. I was so proud. You picked two things that I was telling someone the other day. I was as proud of those two films of anything that I've ever really done. But yeah, what those people did, you talk about true patriots.

Yeah. Those were true patriots. Yeah. So those two movies they can watch Grizzly Man and then. It was called The Flight That Fought Back. The Flight That fought back. But get your Kleenex out because you're going to, that's a tear jarker. Yeah, yeah, that's great.

And I know you're doing something with global tourism now and you've done some work in the Middle East. Tell us about that. So I've always loved to travel. I've now been probably close to 80 countries. And as you were saying earlier, I think that the rotary, one of the things that is a gift, is that every time you go somewhere else in the world, you bring back a little piece of your heart from that place and an appreciation for other perspectives and other cultures. That has led me, you know, doing all of this travel business has led me.

I did a venture for Royal Caribbean living down in Grand Cayman, which is kind of fun. And one of my closest, dearest friends was my boss, was a guy named Larry Pimentel, who's the best luxury cruise executive in the world. He's doing a really cool project now that I'm helping him with a little bit, which is sort of partnered with four seasons, and they're going to launch a new cruise line. But I've always loved travel, and then when I did the Royal Caribbean project, it introduced me to some other amazing people in the travel industry. And there's one of the greatest entrepreneurs is a man,

named Matthew Upchurch, who's out of Fort Worth. And he started a company called Virtuoso Travel. And Virtuoso is very high-end, ultra-luxury, 20,000 agents, I think, around the world that are all the best of what they do. And he asked me about two years ago, he knew I liked challenges, and he came to me, and he said, Billy, we've got a really interesting challenge. We've partnered with the Saudi government, and Saudi Arabia wants to open themselves to tourism and travel.

Would you spearhead that project? And I have to say big, I've loved it. It's been so much fun. I have been over there, spent a week over there, and then was in Jordan, loved that part of the world. Saudi Arabia is fascinating. I'm not a cheerleader for Saudi Arabia, but I'm an advocate. And there's lots that they're accomplishing, and they have a long way to go. But I'll tell you, they're doing some amazing things.

And on the travel and tourism side, I was knocked out by, you know, just the history. In one area of maybe 15 kilometers, you can see 10,000. years of history. It's stunning and very few people have been there. They're opening wellness resorts all along their part of the Red Sea. They're going to be the best diving and sort of, you know, most focused on health and wellness of any resorts in the world. So it's been challenging and it's been fun and I loved the Saudi people. So Virtuoso has been a great partner to do. And then, you know, I'm just doing, you know, I'm doing some television stuff that I really like. And I'm, you know, very excited about other things in media and in travel.

Travel is getting ready to really explode because you've seen what's happened now that COVID's over. And so people are kind of excited to get out into the world again. The media business is turned upside down, the television business. So there's now even a creative strike. All the writers and the creatives are on strike in Hollywood. I hope that gets resolved soon. but the business has been sort of brought to a standstill. And the things that you and I watch growing up don't exist anymore.

Like the major networks, if you tell your kids or I tell my nephews, they're like, well, I have no idea what's on ABC or what's on NBC or whatever now. What is ABC? They don't even know. It ends up just being something they usually think about for sports. What's really been fascinating is to watch what technology has done. And I know, you know, as a technologist, you follow it really well. and the streaming part of allowing you to watch what you want, when you want, how you want,

and where you want is stunning. A fun anecdote when you and I were coming along, and so I was 22, 23 years old, living and working on Wall Street. We used to use, this was a reference we used, okay, on Thursday night, I'll meet you at such and such bar after Seinfeld. Yeah. No, think about that. If you said that to a young person today, they would look at you like, first of all,

Oh, that's stupid. Yeah. What do you mean? Yeah. And two, I can watch Seinfeld any time I want. Yeah. Why would I allow that to dictate what the rest of my life's going to be? Yeah.

So technology has really allowed for great advancement and certainly in television. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I can't remember the guy's name is Oliver Darcy or something. The guy who just had that hit song, the country song, and he recorded it. Yes. Yeah. He recorded it on his iPhone. Yeah.

And he's number one. Yep. In the world? Yep. I mean... Well, I think that that's, you know, think about this. When we were growing up, if you used the word viral, it was always horrible. It was bad, yeah. Today, it's like high five.

Yeah. It went viral. It went viral, yeah. So it's a big shift in terms of what social media does and how it reaches people. Well, I'm sure you're figuring all that out and, you know, look forward to seeing what else you're able to do, get done. because you're like me. I mean, people often will ask me, like, why are you still doing all this stuff? I'm like, I like doing this stuff.

I'm still curious. Every day is an open page. Yeah, so. Absolutely. Put something interesting on it. So let me ask you this. A couple of quick ones here. What's your favorite book?

Wow. I saw you, you know, when you mentioned that you were going to ask me a couple of these favorites, it's always hard to choose. But if you force me into doing that, because I'm going to end up asking you the same. I would say the Prince of Tides. Oh, wow. That's a great book. I love that book.

And it's also South Carolanian, Pat Conroy, one of my favorites. And I also just felt like when I read it that I was home and I saw myself in the book at times. So I live at the beach. I love the beach. And so just the way he described our life in South Carolina, especially in the low country, I've always found to be dreamlike. Wasn't Callenwald in that book? Wasn't that like one of the villains?

I think so. You know, it's funny because when the movie came out, I was so disappointed because it didn't. It's like most things. Sutherberg are the same way. To me, they're not true to the story. But I hadn't read that book. I need to go back and read it again, but I loved it. I love that book.

And then favorite word? So I would probably ask you to let me go with the. two. All right. And to keep with our musical bond and our motif, I'd probably quote my friend, our friend, our friend, the Reverend Al Green. Yes. And I would probably go with my two favorite words would be love and happiness.

Love and happiness. That's great. And is that going to be your favorite band also? No, because you said to me, yeah, favorite band, and I was going to ask you for latitude to say artist. And I'd go with one, you know, band. And then I'd go with one that you and I loved growing up and I still love. And I'd probably go with earthwind and fire.

Yeah. Because to me, they epitomized happiness and love. Yes. In all of their songs. Enthusiasm. They never sang about anything that was down on negative. And they loved each other as a family. And you could dance.

Songs like Celebrate. Incredible. Yeah. So, and then I think the hard choice is, I'll tell you, just a funny vignette on why I would probably choose because I really love Teddy Pendergrass, but I probably would go with Barry White. And for three reasons. One, because my dad loved him. And he introduced me to Barry White on an eight track, okay, going way back.

The second thing is because I got to meet Barry in person. Wow. When I was, he was playing at the Greek theater when I lived in L.A. And he was the nicest person, one of them I'd ever met. Yeah. Humble, sweet. And he was just so good at what he did. He didn't try to do anything that he, that, you know, wasn't in his.

his sort of mati. And then I think the last part was I took a picture with him. And I used to send out Christmas cards a long time ago. It was kind of me somewhere different, doing something different or whatever. But that was my favorite one. My friends liked, I know I sent you one. It was a picture of Barry White and me at the Greek. And I said, wishing you a Barry, Barry White Christmas.

So I'm going to go with Barry White and Earthwind and Fire. That's strong. That's very strong. So last question. Is there anything you want to promote today? No, I think the only thing that I would promote is what you've asked me wonderfully, which is a personal message to everyone to focus on love, to focus on happiness. We're watching what's going on in the world with Ukraine, you know, focus on peace.

Those things are important. We talk about them all the time, but they're really important. both personally and globally. And I also think that I'd come back to the message of, life's pretty good when everything's fine. But it's not always going to be that way. And we all have bad days. Social media obscures that sometimes

because everybody looks at it and goes, I can't believe I'm not there. I can't believe they're doing this. That's not everybody's life every day. And so when things don't look so good, you know my my push would be you know to be faithful yeah and to trust in God and also to just do the very best you can and you you nailed it which is sometimes it means just taking a baby step yeah because if you take the baby step you're a little bit farther than you were yeah and you never know

what comes next you know the next day can be a great day yeah so that that's probably the only thing I would really promote. I love doing the stuff with Virtuoso. If you want to go on a luxury trip, they're the best, you know, and so I would do that. But yeah, I can't wait to get to ask you a couple of questions. You can do that. Well, thank you very much for being here today. We really appreciate it and some great, great stuff that's going to help a lot of people. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Great to be your friend. Thank you, man.