Noob School - Media, Sales & Higher Ed A Career Mosaic with Diana Herrmann Davis

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

Dive deep with us in Noob School Episode 149, featuring Diana Herrmann Davis, Assistant Director of Employer Recruitment and Center Operations at The Citadel. Diana walks us through her multifaceted career—from her polished beginnings at NASCAR, where she shaped media communications and archival storytelling, to dynamic roles in higher education career services at institutions like the University of Pittsburgh and Robert Morris University. She then pivoted into sales as a Sales Associate at Hylo, before evolving into a leadership role at The Citadel—where she's now also spearheading recruitment operations, coordinating career services, and teaching as an adjunct professor. Along the way, her advanced degrees from East Carolina University and the University of Pittsburgh have given her a strong academic foundation. Whether you’re mapping a career change, thinking of merging sales skills with education, or aiming to lead in campus operations, Diana’s journey delivers rich, actionable insights for your professional evolution. Get your sales in rhythm with The Sterling Method: https://SterlingSales.co I'm going to be sharing my secrets on all my social channels, but if you want them all at your fingertips, start with my book, Sales for Noobs: https://amzn.to/3tiaxsL Subscribe to our newsletter today: https://bit.ly/3Ned5kL #SalesTraining #B2BSales #SalesExcellence #SalesStrategy #BusinessGrowth #SalesLeadership #SalesSuccess #SalesCoaching #SalesSkills #SalesInnovation #SalesTips #SalesPerformance #SalesTransformation #SalesTeamDevelopment #SalesMotivation #SalesEnablement #SalesGoals #SalesExpertise #SalesInsights #SalesTrends#salestrends

All right, welcome back to Noob School episode 149. 149. Today, yeah, that's right. Today I've got a very special guest, Diana Davis, Herman Davis. Diana Herman Davis, sure. Herman Davis. Count them all. Diana, we've been friends for several years now, and she is running, a big part of running the Career Placement Office at the Citadel.

Career Center. We just call it Career Center. Career Center. Career Center. So you are, you're helping the cadets get good jobs when they graduate. Sure. Helping all students, really. So veteran students, graduate students.

All of them? Cadet, yep. That's good. Help some alumni too. We try to cut it off at the five years once they've graduated out for five years. Really? They come back sometime? Oh, yeah.

They circle back. Yeah. I've seen someone come in from 80, 90s, 90s looking, looking for help still. Yeah. That's tough. And we have to sometimes, you know, our population is mostly working with cadets. That's our main population that we work with. Well, your office, now right now it's being renovated, I think. It is being renovated and we are moving next week, actually. To a new place. To capers. To capers. Which one's capers? The new one. Oh, really? Okay, good. Yeah. So they've been off campus,

a little bit, like half a block, in a house that used to be my old basketball coach's house. Yep. Isn't that wild? That is wild. He lived there with four kids for many years. Yeah, yeah. And before that, it was Mayor Stoney's house.

Really? Yep. One of the mayors from like the 20s or the 30s. Well, you all have done a great job there, but I think you'll do an even better job on campus. Yeah, we agree. When people can just literally just, Take one step and be in your office.

Yeah. We'll be, I mean, Capers is the humanities building, so so many students go there for classes. Right. So once we establish that we're there, we will be moving again next year. They're creating the leadership school, which is right behind Bond Hall. Okay. And then we'll be right next to that in a townhome. So we're doing a little scooching for now, but I'm excited to be in a new building, you know.

Well, I think it's great. Y'all are doing great. So that's what you're doing now. And one of the things I like is when I ask you the question, and we're going to do it live now. But what is the percent of kids like last year that had jobs before they graduated? So I can tell you percentages from this year, actually. We have recently just, I want to say we've retained 93% of information from all of our graduates.

So that's including graduate programs and undergrad. 88% have either are going into graduate school or have a job or going into the military. And I would say compared to the national average and or just bigger schools in South Carolina, we exceed that about 30%. So usually rates of placement, as you would say, is in the 50s, high mid-50s. You know, like Clemson, USC. that's what they're looking at. And we hit 88.

I mean, we're probably going to be 89 here shortly. So we kind of always wait until that August, October time to really take in. Because sometimes, you know, students sometimes just need to focus on school, right? And then they kind of take a little break. They'll go home, save some money, maybe work at, you know, the job that they worked at in high school or in the summers. And then they'll get a job by, you know, July, August, September. We want to count that, obviously. Yeah.

I mean, within some time frame. And some of them are going to want to take a trip around the world and then get, I mean, you may never get to 100%. No, no one's ever going to get to 100 really. Because they're going to, some people don't want a job. Right. They're doing something else. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Well, that's still pretty damn good, 88%. It sure is. We're very happy with that. And is it around there every year? Last year was about the same. Yeah. So last year was about the same. The year before, it kind of gets hairy on getting the information where finally we are owning

that part of the job. It used to be in our institutional research. So IR would have to share with us, and it was always kind of a battle. But we this year, Jen, my boss, Jen Cleveland and I, we were like, we can own it on Handshake, which is a CRM platform. We're like, we can, you know, we can do it. And so we've had a lot of success with it so far. You know, obviously there's hiccups when you're trying something new every year, but we're going to work with the Commandant's office, work with the tax next year. really encourage people to fill it out. I think the funny thing is, which, you know, cadets are incredible. They are easily wanting to be hired by people. So when a student does not have a

position by the time they walk across that stage, they don't really want to tell us. They don't want to put that information in that they don't have a job yet because all their friends do. And so I get that, right? And I'm like, okay, well, I understand, but at least let us know. And then, you know, come July, August, you should have a position and then you can fill it out. So it's a matter of, then they realize, you know, sometimes that senior syndrome, you know, two weeks before graduation, I need a job, hits. And they come running to us, which is, that happens, right? Yeah.

I was kind of in that boat, so. And what's the thought process on requiring like a sign off from the placement center that we've had the conversation? So I wish, right? That would be like a graduation requirement. Yeah. We do not have that, unfortunately. Getting that approved, you know, probably is possible, but it takes, you got to get it from the top down. So that would mean the provost, probably even the president, the commandant all need to be like, yes. Really probably the provost because it would have to be a requirement of a credit.

Well, I mean, right now, let's just say you can't do anything really stupid. kicked out of school. That's one thing. But you also have to have more than a two-oh, right? Say that I am. A GPA, your GPA has to be a certain level. Sure. To graduate. You have to pass a certain PT test to graduate. I would think you should be able to at least check the box. Yeah. That we've done the placement center interview. Career Center review or something like that. Where you just, you know, it's online or it's in person or whatever, but it's checked. You know, I would think if you're not going to let them graduate at the, they can't do 20 pushups in a minute, then you ought to, I mean, the thing that if you're president

of Citadel, one of the things you'd brag about is we've got a 94% placement rate. Sure. Right? I mean. Yeah. So anyway. I'll send an email. I'll send an email.

That's right. Okay. Well, we got ahead of ourselves as usual. Let's back up to kind of how you, how you, who you are. and how you got to this point. Sure. So where did you grow up? So I'm a mixed bag of a northern and southerner.

So I grew up in Massachusetts until I was about 13 years old, just a small town outside of Boston. I grew up. It looks like the country. I had a, it was three houses on a long road. And literally outside of my house, I had miniature horses in a pond. Like I would feed horses. And it's so funny, I never, like, thought of myself as growing up in the country, but when my sister-in-law went and saw our old house, she was like, this is the country.

She's from Staten Island, New York, so very different, right? But then my dad got a job. We moved to Mooresville, North Carolina, which is Lake Norman, if you've ever heard of it. I went to Lake Norman High School and graduated in 2010. And then my freshman year of college, I went to High Point University. So, to be totally honest, I was not a good high school student. I wasn't very motivated. I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

And when you're in high school, you just have to go and learn what they basically teach you. So I didn't have any choices. The one choice I did have was theater. So I loved being in theater and I loved sports as well. I grew up playing every sport in the book. So I played JV basketball. I did track one year. I did cross country my senior year, which that was awful.

I don't recommend just running cross country to do it. But I was in advance acting for. my last two years of high school. And shout out to Kelly Dowell, who's an incredible teacher. She was there for like 35 years. She's just a legend. What plays did you do? So my senior year, I was in Susical, Susical the Musical. And I was Thing One. And I had absolutely no lines. And I was on stage pretty much the entire time. So it was awesome because I just got to run around like a crazy person. And it was so fun. And then the year before that was. footloose.

Footloose, okay. Yep, footloose. And I was the old grandmother and I wore skates and I worked at like the ice cream parlor. Yeah, those are my two like bigger roles. Then we did like small stuff. Like we did competitions and everything and we traveled. It was fun. And I'm still friends with that group today.

So you had a theater friend group, which is very tight, I would think. It's not that many of them. And then athletes. Mm-hmm. Yep. Any other friend groups? I just genuinely was trying to be nice to most people, I would say. Being that I moved there, end of seventh grade, so I really didn't meet people until that summer, and I went to basketball camp and met my best friend still to this day.

Drew Taylor, she just had a baby two weeks ago. So it's crazy to just see all that happen. I was like, man, we've come a long way. But the groups that I would say mostly were athletes, you know, and that can go, I played soccer in middle school. So I knew the soccer players and then I knew basketball players. And then all those groups kind of just mesh together with like football and track and everybody else. But other groups, I just genuinely was trying to be nice to everyone. So stoner group as well.

I think about that sometimes because we thought about it. I mean, I wasn't in the theater group. I wish I would have been looking back, but I played a lot of basketball and tennis. So I had those friends. But I was generally a nice, it was nice to everybody. But looking back on it, there's a few people I wish I'd have been nicer to. Meaning maybe they were getting left out or something, and I was just not, not, I wasn't, not nice to them, but I didn't really go out of my way to kind of hold their hand and make it feel comfortable.

Yeah. I wish I'd have done more of that. I think for me, I wish I would have been less social sometimes. I just talked all the time basically and didn't concentrate in school, which then got me in trouble where I couldn't play sports sometimes. I was on the softball team and I basically got kicked off because I failed a class. And honestly, I'll watch the NCAA softball and I'm like, man, if I only would have just stuck with it and could have worked out and I could have been there.

But that's like such a dream. What position did you play? Second. I played actually, so we'll get to this at some point. But I played in like adult league once I started working at NASCAR after college. And we were champions one year and I played second. I loved it. I was like, man, I remember this.

This is like so much fun. And it was so funny. My husband grew up never watching baseball. His dad did not watch baseball. He was like, I love watching your softball games. They're so much fun to watch in person. Yeah. Yeah, it's different than watching.

on TV, right? Yeah. But I even enjoy women's softball on TV. It's just a lot of action, a lot of bunts, a lot of stuff moving around the bases. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. So you went to High Point. My freshman year.

Okay. And you didn't like High Point. So I wouldn't say I didn't like it. I met, I had probably got the best roommate I could have ever imagined because we're still friends to this day. I'm very loyal person. Once you become my friend, you're pretty much stuck with me. So, so then.

Champagne, she lives in Massachusetts, and she was just an angel. Their name is Savannah Champagne? That is awesome. That is a cool name, right? And she was just wonderful. And the high point's expensive. It's a private school. And I was not paying.

I was blessed that I was not paying for college. It was a little close. It was about an hour and 15 minutes away. I grew up. My mom went to Penn State and my brother went to the University of Michigan. So I grew up watching football as well. and I was like, I miss going and watching football. Like, we would go to Penn State games like once a year, like pretty much my whole life.

So when I wasn't going, I was like, well, I'm in college and I'm not doing anything, and this is expensive, and my professors were okay. And I did take college more seriously than high school because it was stuff I got to choose what I was taking. So I transferred to East Carolina the following year. So I did my whole first year, and then I transferred and I graduated in 2014. So I still finished in four years, which. It's rare for people to even say when they go to ECU. Yeah, that's good.

Yeah. That's good. The Pirates. Yep. Yeah. Yep. I heard that was a fun school. It is a very fun school.

What are you going to say party school? It's a very fun school. It's in the middle of nowhere, right? Eastern North Carolina, in the middle of nowhere. It's not by a beach, really. It's in the middle of, like, tobacco fields. So truly, they have a great medical school, which I think is underrated. They have a dental school and a medical school.

So they have a really good, great program, but that's, That's it. It's the school, that medical area, and that's about it. So what does you major in? Communications. Okay. Yeah. And then you got out and then what happened?

So my goal when I was in school was to be the next Aaron Andrews. I loved watching her. I always grew up watching just sports on TV. I'm a big sports girl. So I love watching football. Aaron Andrews, I was like, she's gorgeous, she's having fun. This is amazing. I would love to do that.

So I pursued that. Then I got an internship working under Brian Bailey on Friday Night Lights at WNCT in Greenville and realized this work is hard. And you get paid. Now, I didn't, that was an unpaid internship. So I was running all. Really low paid. Really low paid. Zero.

So I was driving all over Eastern North Carolina to go to Friday night football games. And me and this young man, J.L. we both were, he was doing the camera stuff, and he was an intern as well. So we were just doing free labor now that I think about it. These people were just smooching off of us. But every Friday night, I mean, I was working until like 1 a. And speaking, going to a fun school like that, missing out on Friday nights, I was like, man, what am I doing? But I did that for a semester, earned credit for it at least. And I realized then, I was like, I don't think I want to do this anymore. So, you know, internships are great because you find out what you like and what you don't

like, right? So that was a big tell. And then from there, I kind of was like, well, I still enjoy the media. I like kind of doing, what you guys are doing here is really what, you know, the editing, the camera, all that good stuff. So I talked to an alumni, Jeremy Wallace one day. Someone put me in touch with him. And Jeremy Wallace worked at NASCAR in Charlotte. And I called him, talked to him for a little bit. He was super friendly and he was like, yeah, we're always, you know, we're hiring part-time people a lot. He was like, I have a question for you. What race was this past weekend? He was quizzing me. And I was like, I don't know. I'm sorry. I didn't know. And he goes, that was a trick question because there wasn't a race. And I was like, man, he got me though. Like, I was scared for a

second. So I ended up getting a part-time job there. How did you get the lead to him? I think it was through like my internship coordinator. Okay. I think super nice guy, Todd Freely, and he's still at E.C. I'm pretty sure. But he just kind of put me in touch and, you know, I had no problem. I was just calling people. I was like, I need a job and I'm about to graduate in like a week and a half.

I mean, I was so late to the game. I think I went to my career center once, which is so silly. But, and they have a great big career center. And they have, you know, they got more money there than the Citadel does to house it. So, yeah, then I ended up getting that part-time job. So I was doing two part-time jobs. I was living at my parents' house. I was working at my old restaurant that I did in high school, North Harbor Club,

just host to sing. And then I would go there. I would drive, you know, Moresville to Charlotte then. There wasn't the fast lane. So I was sitting in traffic every day, which was terrible going there and back, spending a lot of money on gas. And I was hourly, you know, paid hourly. But eventually it turned into a full-time job.

then I left there after about, I think, a year and a half, and I went into a sales role. PSP professional sports publications is where I worked for about eight months. And at that time, my husband and I had, he was my boyfriend at the time, we had moved in together. We were living in an apartment in Charlotte. And I remember the first three, four months, I was like, okay, this is fun. Like, this is cool. I was just cold calling, right? Cole calling trying to sell publication space in publications that I had never seen.

seen before. So I will say when it comes to sales, you need to believe in your product. And after probably five, six months, I was like, I don't believe in this product. Like, I've never seen what this even looks like. I'm just selling to sell. So eventually I called NASCAR and I said, will you please take me back? Like, I will do anything to come back, even if it's part time. And I went back part time. And I did another part time position as a hostess, downtown Charlotte, at a restaurant. So I literally just started back from square one, which was okay. You live and you learn. There's forks. There's U-turns, all kinds of stuff. But then I moved into a role. I basically got recruited by the office next door in NASCAR to go work in the media ops, which was a lot of

background. We were working four tens, which was really fun. So I was living in Charlotte at the time that the Carolina Panthers were good with Cam Newton. So I got to pick my schedule. They liked me enough, I was the only girl in the office in that side. And so I like working with men. Like, I loved it. A male-dominated field, they actually really respect a woman when you're the only one there, right? So I remember I was like, well, it's football season, so I want to have Sundays and Mondays off. So I want the Wednesdays to Saturday shift. And they're like, okay. And then football season would be over and I'd be like, okay, I kind of want Sundays and Mondays off now. Or the opposite, I want Fridays and Saturdays off. Can I switch it to that? It's good one. They're like,

Sure. So they just gave me what I wanted. And I was a happy camper, right, for a long time. Eventually, I figured out I didn't want my boss's job. I didn't want my boss's boss's job. And I knew that I needed to do something that, like, really I could feel in my soul, right? So I loved, I loved college. I loved being on a campus. I loved working with the staff and the faculty. I really became close with, like, faculty members and staff. And I called my advice. one day, Daniel Wiseman. He's still there at ECU too. I called him pretty not long after I had graduated. I think it was like 2015. And I was like, how do I get your job? Like, what do I do? He was like, well, you got to get a master's degree. And I was like, what? Like, I just did all this. And now I have to go get another degree. He was like, yeah, unfortunately, like higher education, he do have to have a master's degree in most positions. So I kind of sat on that for a few years. And then I got serious in 2017 because I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, like, I need to really go get a degree. So I wrote down a list of places. I took the GRE, and I'm a terrible test taker, and I bombed the

GRE. I mean, I bombed it. And you have to pay $300 for it. It's probably more expensive now, but I was like, I told Corey, my now husband, I was like, I can't go to a school in the South because they require a GRE, and I'm just not going to get a high enough score, where places in the Northeast and out west didn't require a GRE for, which was, which seemed odd. I was like, that seems weird. But the main schools, the four schools I applied to, they were higher education management positions, or not positions, majors, master's programs, higher education, student affairs, that's what they were kind of called. And I applied to University of Colorado in Denver. I applied to NYU. I applied to Pittsburgh, University of Pittsburgh, and I applied to

Boston University. And all of those had an office where my husband could transfer. And I got into one school, the University of Pittsburgh. And then I got a full ride there. And I was like, this was meant to be, right? And once I got the full ride there, I had to do, I had to do an interview day. It was called Panther Preview Days. I had to come interview because for that program you had to do an internship the entire time. And I got hired through their career, their education school, school of education, career center. And they were like, we offer an assistantship so you'll get a stipend and your entire program will be paid for. And I was like, well, yes, like I will definitely want to do this if I get this. So I apply, you know,

I interviewed for it. So did 30 other people interviewed for it. And about three days later, they called me and they offered me the position. And then from there, I told NASCAR, I gave them like a three-month notice, basically. And they were very appreciative of that, of course, because I was like, well, you never know. I might want to come back again. So just don't want to burn a bridge. And my husband had never lived outside of North Carolina before. And I was like, we're going to move to Pittsburgh.

Are you okay with that? And he was like, do I have a choice? And I was like, not really. At that time, we were just dating. So we hadn't even been engaged or anything. But we were like, we were on the way to being engaged. So we moved to Pittsburgh August of 2018, and he proposed November of 2018. And then, gosh, I mean, that program went by.

I graduated April of 2020. We were in quarantine. Have you remember? Kind of. It was just a blur, right? Like, you were like, I can't leave the house. Like, I have to wear masks places. It was an odd time to graduate from a master's program because I was like, who's going to hire me?

No one. No one was going to hire me. So I was going. The world stopped. The world stopped. The world really did stop. And that was quite an awakening moment because I was like, I just got this. After all this.

Now what? So it was actually funny during that time when I graduated. I remember I graduated April 20th, 420. and I was like, what am I supposed to do if no, if everyone's on a hiring freeze? Because most higher eds were on a hiring freeze. I was actually interviewing with Paige Tisdale at the time for the career education role. Yeah. And she called me and she said, we're going on a hiring freeze and we're going to have to stop this.

I'm so sorry. She was obviously very apologetic and she was very real with me. And I was like, okay, you know, that's fine. I'll figure something else out. What I do, I went and did some retail sales. I went and worked at buckles, slaying some jeans. Then I went to, then I went to Tori Birch, sling some sandals. With your mask on?

With my mask on. Tori Birch gave us pretty free ones, which was nice. That was like the prettiest store I've ever worked in. So, you know, just went to my natural ability of selling, really. Yeah. I was like, I can sell nice things for sure. I can text people and tell them to come in. And at that time, the mall hours were great.

You know, they opened at like 10 and closed at 6. Well, you just said something. I'm always looking for sales tips, but you said you're working at Buckles or Tori Burtz or somewhere. And you're good customers. I'm sure you got their cell number. Yep. And you would text them and say, hey, the new jeans just came in or something. And they'd say, I got to get, right?

Yep. You would create this thing with your texting. Whereas most people working retail, they would never do that. Right. And we have waiters at certain restaurants in Charleston and in Greenville that will text and say, you know, hey, John, you know, the soft show crabs are in or something. Yeah. Just him to me. Yeah.

And I kind of feel like, well, I'm bad I know that, but I kind of feel beholden. Yeah. It wasn't like a company text. No, it's a one-on-one. Yeah. I'm like, I should go have dinner with there. Yeah. So it's a good thing.

The one-on-one thing makes people feel special and also a little bit beholden to want to do something. So keep going. So you were back to the Buckel's roots. Yeah, back to just my old school ways. Did you tell the people, Buckles, you had a master's degree? I did. You know, I was like, I just graduate. And honestly, Buckle wanted to hire me full time.

And I told her, I said, I am looking. This is so sad. But I was like, I need minimum 45 salary. for the year and then like commission on top of that for what I sell. And she made it happen and they offered me it. You didn't take it. I didn't take it. Damn.

I felt bad. I felt so bad. She was so sweet too. And I was like, I was like, I just know I can't. If I do that, I'm going to stay here for longer than I wanted to. You know, I didn't get, I think I had a real sit down with Corey and I was like, I did not get this degree to go sling jeans. I mean, I love, I love clothes.

I'm a big fashion person. I was like, that is not why we did this, right? So I left, and then I went to Tori Birch, and they were lovely. They had a really good leadership team there. And then Paige called me back. And this was January of 2021. And funny enough, Paige called me that same week that Robert Morris University, which is a smaller school outside of Pittsburgh and MoonPA,

called me and they had an opening as well because I had just interviewed for that position four or five months before and they actually, they didn't choose me, they chose someone else. And then someone in that office left and then this position was open again. So I was interviewing for the Citadel and RMU at the same time. And the Citadel was just being slow, of course. And RMU offered me the job, so I accepted. And I remember calling my mentor at the time, Phyllis Sheehe. She's lovely.

And I was like, Phyllis, like, I feel like the Citadel is going to offer me the job. But like Robert Morris just offered it to me. And she was like, well, you don't have a job. So you better accept the one that you had an offer from. And I was like, you're so right. Like I can't, what if they don't? What if the Citadel doesn't choose me? And then I'm stuck with no job whatsoever.

So I did. I went to Robert Morris and I feel so bad. They were a nice team. They were a small team. and I was there for maybe four weeks, and like two out of those four weeks, I was on a vacation. And then I left. Wow. And then I left because I got the job at the Citadel.

And we got married a second time because COVID. We got married twice, once in Pittsburgh, and then once in Charlotte. And we got married May 14th, drove back to Pittsburgh, packed a baller things, and moved to Charleston about a week later. And how long have we been there? At the Citadel? Yeah. Four years. I just took four years in June. And you're real happy with what you're doing now.

I love it. Yeah. So here's the story, I think, is, you know, I interview or talk to some people sometimes who literally, you know, like I knew I wanted to be a banker my whole life. And so I went to this local school when I majored in accounting and I interned at banks and I went to this one bank and I've been with this bank for 25 years and now I'm the regional president. Some people do that. Yeah. And if you're lucky enough to be one of those people, you know, hats off. But if you're not like me and like you, I think one of the things you did real well is you would try something.

And if you knew it weren't going to work, you would shift. You would like, even if I have to go back to buckles and, you know, sling jeans, I'm not going to get stuck in a job I don't like or a career I don't like. And you did it several times. Yeah. But now you ended up, you know, in, I think a city you like, job you like, school you like. Yeah. But you could easily be stuck. It's a regional manager at Buckles right now.

For sure. You know? 100%. Yeah. So I think that's the lesson here. You do a really, it takes bravery to change direction because you're kind of, people are like, oh, that didn't work out. Yeah. People can, you know, second guess.

I think it also shows like never burn burn a bridge right like you just never know you might go back to NASCAR you'll still go back I might still go back right you never know I always I'm always I'm always open to look in and those people there were wonderful NASCAR was a really great place to work it really was and I met some of the nicest people one guy Wilson win who lives in Simpsonville who I'm going to see today so like just and he still works there like he left and then went back too so so it's it's funny how it works but it truly is just don't burn a bridge and just network as much as you can. It's about who you know, right?

We had a salesman one time. He was one of our best salespeople ever. And he'd gone to the Citadel, and so he knew some Air Force recruiters and stuff. So after about four or five years, I guess he must have been 25 or 26, he was crushing it in sales, crushing it. And he comes to me and he goes, hey, John, I've got to talk to you about something. I'm thinking about joining the Air Force. I'm like, why would you do that? Yeah.

He's like, I was thinking maybe I want to be a pilot or something. Okay, I get that. He goes, they'll pay for my law school. Wow. I'm like, well, do you want to be a law? You want to go law school? Yeah, what do you want to do that for? You want to just, you know, whatever.

So anyway, we went back and forth. I've been me being his mentor and one day he goes, I'm so sorry, but I've already signed. I've signed, you know, signed the contract. I'm like, all right, well, make the best of it. I hope it works that well, if it doesn't let me know. and about six months later he's like do you know anyone who can get me out of this and so we got oh yeah we got him out and he came back

you know and he ended up doing great just yeah being forthright being honest he told me the truth I thought it was a mistake it was but yeah that's another good lesson it's just to tell people the truth and be honest and you can come back yeah you gotta figure it out for yourself sometimes right like you just never know

so if you don't then it's gonna eat at you if you don't know Right. Yeah, most people, in my experience, most people get stuck. Yeah. You know, like a lot of times it'll be, they don't have a job and they'll say, well, you know, Mr. Sterling knows someone over here who's hiring for paper sales. So I got a job selling paper. And pretty soon you're stuck.

Yeah. Because that's where your experience is. Right. But you might not really care about paper. So you should be something you care about. Yeah. Like you get fired up about placing students. Oh, yeah.

Well, because I work with employers a lot, right? So, and I say this all the time. I mean, I got an easy sell. Selling the Citadel is not hard, which makes my job a lot easier. But I'm selling recruiting opportunities, right? Like, these people want to hire these students. We have an incredible engineering program. We're 18th in the nation for our engineering program, which is pretty incredible.

So left and right, am I getting civil in construction? Because we know, I mean, Southeast has been booming for the last, you know, 10 years, especially since COVID even more so. So left and right, they're in my ear. Well, when's the engineering fair? When can we come to campus? And, I mean, truly, the engineering fair will fill up the civil and construction section with, you know, it's probably got 25, 30 slots.

Yeah. It'll fill up in 20 minutes. Yeah. I mean, they are a sought out product. Wow. And we sell a good product. Right? Absolutely.

We sell a great program. We've got, they've got intuition. They're going to be principled leaders. Yeah. You know, honor, duty, respect. And it's, it really, we got good, good, good people out there that make great employees and entrepreneurs and all the above. Yeah, it's a good mix for sure. Now, what's, with, you know, one that long ago that getting a computer science degree or getting a cyber degree,

were like really, really easy to place. Is that still the case or is AI changing things? That's a good question. So I would say like computer science, I think is still pretty sought out. And we don't, like we have a great computer science program and cybersecurity has really blown up. Now the intelligence has exceeded our expectations. And I would say that is harder for placement-wise. because you're mostly looking at three-letter agencies, right?

And then, but three-letter agencies don't just hire students who just have a degree. You have to have an internship with them for at least like two years or something. Like it takes anywhere from 12 to 18 months to really even get called back from them sometimes. So it's hard for our intel students to get internships unless it's kind of with like law enforcement or something. And some of them are like they just brush that off, right? But you got to start somewhere. Do you want to do stuff like that? My nephew, Finn Butcher, you met Vin.

He was an Intel and Cyber double major. Wow. Graduated in three years. And he had one of those scholarships for the DOD. DoD scholarships. So he's in Washington now. That's all I can tell you. Yeah.

No idea. Right. They want to come recruit every year, but they can't tell us how many students they hire. or anything like that. So we're like... I'll tell you this. We went to lunch and the bill came and he goes, no, no, I got that one.

He said, must be doing pretty well. Yeah, must be doing it pretty well. Government's paying you pretty good. He's a great kid. Finn Butcher, man. He was one of those kids, I would say, you know, in high school, he hadn't quite, he was kind of still skinny and hadn't really blossomed yet. And he went to the Citadel and he put on some muscle, became a private pilot.

Wow. Double major had a 4-0. Oh, my gosh. Incredible. Yeah, he's a strong kid. Yeah. That's awesome. He might be two years out.

Still. That's incredible. But to answer your question, though, as well, like AI, I think, I don't know if AI is quite taking over those jobs, but it's being used, right? So you have to learn it. Yeah. Like, it's non-negotiable now. So I think at first, you know, we have some policy with it. I teach a Leaders 101 class.

And I was like, you guys can use AI, but if I can tell that you're using it, you're using it improperly. Right. So there's, I mean, I use it not, maybe not every day, but at least a couple times a week. So it's just, it's helping. It's a little like buffer, you know, to just. I liked it for if I'm writing anything, is for it to give me a first draft. Yep. Because I have writer's block.

I don't know how to, I don't let it start, you know, And once I have the draft, I can edit. Yeah, or build an outline or ask questions for interviews or whatever I need it for. You know what else you can do? I just learn this. You can, at least on grok, you can talk into it and give like a speech, like you have a speech you have to give. And it will come back verbally and say, that was very good here, but you ought to try to me to give me the verbal, just like if you were critiquing my speech. Yeah.

So it's unbelievable. That's awesome. So, yeah. Okay, a couple of quick ones here. Yeah. And then we'll do the big finale. So what is your favorite all-time book? Favorite all-time book?

I was afraid you were going to ask this question. That's why I sent it ahead of time. Right now, I would say, for really just the place that I'm at in life is buy them build has been a really good book, which we have. haven't really got into that part of this niche. But buy them build has been very inspirational and telling for this time in my life. What's that guy's name? Can you remember? I can't remember the little top of my head.

Walker or something? Desmond Walker. Something like that. Yeah, that's a great book. It's got a phone to look that up. I love that book because I'm not completely anti-start up, but I wouldn't do one. I'd rather buy something and then build on it. Because I don't want to start with no customers, no logo, no name, not even registered with the state.

I mean, no money. Yeah, no money, made thing. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. No, I agree. Yeah. Okay. Favorite word?

Favorite word? Um, my favorite word would have to be fabulous. Fabulous. Fabulous. I love it. I love that. I just love it when people do fabulous things and John, you're fabulous, and this place is fabulous. And we got fabulous students at the Sted-O-Dle.

Yeah. I love fabulous. It's much better than okay, good enough, pretty good. It's fabulous. It's fabulous. Fabulous cadets. I went to the, oh, you don't remember General Grimsley. That's before your time.

That is, but I've heard, that's, Paige always said that the ghost in the house is General Grimsley. Yeah, he had an office up there. He was great. He was one of the best presidents ever. When I was there, he was the president. Okay. And I came back on campus recruiting, you know, and he was the, I think he was the President Emeritus at that time, but I ran into him on campus. And I talked to him for a second.

He goes, what are you doing here, young man? I said, I'm looking for a couple of great cadets. And he goes, there's 2,000. of them right here. Fabulous, right? Yeah. That's great. So, easiest question.

Favorite band? I mean, I'm, okay, so, because it's so recent right now, and they are on tour in Vegas, and I'm really sad that I'm not going. My Jen, my boss is going to see them, but the sphere today is Backstreet Boys. Backstreet Boys. At the sphere. At the sphere. Wow.

I thought you were going to say Coldplay. No, no. No, I love, I mean, they're great, but the Backstreet Boys just brings me nostalgia from my childhood. That was my first concert, too. Was that Marky Mark? No, no. Marky Mark is the Funky Bunch? Who was that?

Mark. Mark. Mark. I don't know. He was like the Latin one, right? Mark Wahlberg. Mark Wahlberg's an actor. But wasn't he like one of those dancers at one time?

For the backshy boys, no. No. Nick Carter. I don't know. I'm not up on all that stuff. All right. So let's have one little wrap up on the Citadel. Okay.

If employers are interested in hiring cadets or graduate students, or at least seeing what's available out there, first of all, what will they be getting in, general if they hire Citadel grads, and how would they kind of sign up to take a look? So I'll give you my pitch that I give to all of our employers first. So we have three main ways of recruiting on campus because our students, at least the Corps of Cadets, our main population is on campus and getting them off can be quite difficult. So one, come into a career fair, right? That does. That's one that costs money.

Anywhere from 1,000 to 400, if you're a government or a nonprofit, we do have an option for that, but that's limited space. That's each semester we hold in multi-major career fair. I'm hoping for about 74 employers this year. It'll be in Days Hall, which is great. It's a great place that we've been doing it. It's good acoustics in there. It's not too hot. So we love it in there.

Then we have an engineering fair. So ways for you to get on the campus that way. come to a fair. Another way is tabling Tuesday. So every Tuesday in the semester, I have a table set up in front of Mark Clark Hall, either outside. If weather permitting, if it's beautiful out, outside, it's in between the Starbucks and the Chick-fil-A, so students are running around there all the time. And I suggest bring a recruiter that's going to pull some students and talk to them. And that's usually just an afternoon, right? If you want to get it out of the office for the afternoon, come talk to our students. That would be a great place to do that, which is free.

Right? So I'm offering that for free. So you can just do the table. Okay. That's very good. Yeah. And then my last one is getting in front of a club or an organization, right? And that's also free.

But we suggest usually they meet on an evening. So we suggest bringing a Domino's pizzas or Jersey mics because they have to eat mess hall food, as you know. And they will really be enticed if they have something to eat. But, you know, if we have, you know, sales club, supply chain club. Yeah. I mean, we have at least, you know, 50 clubs or so. We have a finance club. We have a student-run investment fund.

There are some easy ways to just talk to 15 to 30 students in a targeted audience. And that's essentially free, right? So those are two great ways to get on the campus where you don't have to pay and be bombarded. We did have last semester we made it a competition during the career fair. Whoever had the most amount of students from their company got an overnight. We had 930 students come. In the past, it's usually about four to 500 is what we're hitting. So we almost doubled, which was incredible.

And we'll definitely be doing it again. We've been working with Chuck Dunn in the Commandant's office to make that happen. So yeah, so those are the ways to get in front of our students. And then I would say when you hire a Citadel cadet in particular, you're getting a student who is driven. You're getting a student who is dedicated, team player, innovative, bright. motivated, right? They're going to show up on time. They're going to be dressed to the nines. And they're typically, at least I've seen with this generation, they want to work up and not get

stuck necessarily, but they want a place where there's going to be growth. And I will say they need something that has a good training program, right? So, and that's also person dependent, but I would say with our students, typically with cadets, they love a training program. Yeah. Right. They like a regimen. They like a schedule. So those are, you know, enterprise.

There's a couple out there that have really great training programs, management training programs is what they call them. SRS distribution, enterprise. There are some really great ones out there. But really, once you hire one Citadel intern, you want them all, right? So I had a call from Capitol Hill the other day. He said, hey, we had an intern from you. guys last year, can you send us some more resumes? And I was like, yes, of course I can. So I got

them in touch with the right people in the study abroad office because they're running that program fully now, which is great. But it's always awesome to hear that. But, you know, we're sought out. We're sought out, right? Like Capitol Hill, D.C. is not very close to here, but we have a really big alumni group up there. So they're known. For our grad programs, I mean, we have a huge MBA program and it's online, which is also excellent. It's just so people all over the country. But I mean, I would say just as well, it's a teaching college. So a lot of these professors have done the jobs that these people are seeking, right? So it's more about, I would say, their networking abilities to be able to use that professor and kind of get into their network is

one thing that this definitely sets us apart from other graduate programs, at least in the state, Well, I can speak not just as a grad, but I've hired, I think, somewhere on 50, 50 grads over the years. Yeah. And in general, there are everything you said. Not every one of them, but almost every one of them, you know, ready to roll. They're ambitious. They wouldn't have gone to the Citadel if they weren't ambitious. So they kind of want to do well.

And I'll also say, you know, when you look at, like General Rembley said, there's 2,000 of them out there. That's true. But if you call on a club, if you go to the sales club or the engineering club, it narrows all those people down to about 20. 20 people that are going to be graduating next year that are interested in sales jobs. Sure. That's who I want to talk to. Not everybody. Right.

So anyway, you do a remarkable, not since Brent Stewart. Has anyone done as good a job as you? Thank you. I appreciate that. So you're doing great. And I'm glad you waited to get. the job that would move your heart because I think when you see those guys and gals get these jobs, it's got to make you feel good.

Oh, yeah, best feeling. And to see them just chasing their dreams, right? Right. We can only, we can only, you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make them drink, right? So we can give you all the tools, but you've got to do it, right? Like, at the end of the day, once they do it and it starts clicking. Yeah. And then it happens.

And they're like, oh, my gosh, everything you told me was what I needed to do. And I'm like, yeah, and you did it. And look, you're where you need to be. So it's pretty fun. It's an awesome job. Well, thanks for being here. Yeah, thank you. It's always good to see you.

All right. Thank you.