Normal Gossip - A Different Kind of Finale ft Se’era Spragley Ricks

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

Rachelle and Se'era discuss what's been going on behind the scenes at Normal Gossip. We do a little gossip too, because we all deserve that. See you later this year for season 10! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

What's up, rich people. It's me, Haley, aka Mrs. Dow Jones. Money is juicy. That is why I have taken upon myself to start a new podcast called Financial Tea. Every single week, I will break down what is happening in money right now. Plus, I'm going to bring on experts, entrepreneurs, and influencers to spill their financial tea. Think of it as your new weekly financial gossip column. Financial Tea is out now, wherever you got your podcast or watch on YouTube. Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast,

we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. And as some of you might have guessed from the title of today's episode, today's episode is going to be a little bit different. I will not be telling a gossip story to a guest for reasons that I will be explaining. in just a minute, but I know that a substantial amount of y'all will probably be tuning out right now.

Hopefully, we will see you back here for season 10, which will be airing sometime over the summer of 2006, and which will feature some old favorites, some new and phenomenal guests, and as per usual, some unforgettable gossip. All right, here is where I get personal. I don't really think there is a non-dramatic way to tell this story. So thank you in advance for sticking around. The weekend after Christmas, I had to go to the ER because I was experiencing some symptoms of a stroke. Luckily, as you can maybe tell by the fact that I am recording now and not on like medical leave, I did not have a stroke. But I do want to take a minute to talk about something I learned in the ER, which is the acronym B-FAST. The letters stand for balance, eyes, face, arms, speech, and time to get help.

Basically, if you notice symptoms in yourself or someone that include trouble with balance, blurred or double vision, drooping in the face or arm, and trouble with speech, then go to an ER immediately. Time is definitely the essence in the event of a stroke, which those are all symptoms of. What I ended up getting diagnosed with is something called Bell's Palsy, which is inflammation of the nerve whose symptoms can mimic a stroke. Luckily, my case was fairly mild. I didn't really notice until I was brushing my teeth one night and realized that I couldn't spit properly, which was relatively minor, but also pretty scary.

I couldn't taste on one half of my tongue for a while, which was definitely the strangest symptom, but the one that has lasted the longest besides just like exhaustion is a little bit of vertigo because it turns out the facial nerve connects to your inner ear. And your girl is sensitive to motion sickness at the best of times. You can ask literally anyone who has driven in a car with me. Basically, since New Year's, I have not been able to read or write for longer than a couple of minutes without getting nauseous. Like, this intro is the longest thing I've written since mid-December, and I had to write it over two days. I'm already feeling leaps and bounds better than I was when I went to the ER. I'm back in the gym. I'm seeing a neurologist at the end of January. But the reason I'm giving y'all

maybe a little bit too much information about my health is because there was a point when I got back from the mid-season break where I really, really thought I could just muscle through this and deliver the final episode of this season as promised. At this point, I think y'all might have gotten a little bit of an inkling that I am just a little bit of a perfectionist and that I'm just a And that I hate disappointing people. Once the ER doctors confirmed, I didn't have a stroke. What scared me the most was the thought of returning to work and not being able to perform, which, spoiler alert, is exactly what happened.

Luckily, and I keep saying that, but in the aftermath of all this, I actually do feel really lucky and grateful for my family and friends who took care of me, even though I am quite bad at being taken care of. And I feel extremely lucky to work with people who foreground my humanity because they helped me realize that going on like nothing happened. Like the very basics of my job reading and writing didn't actively make me sick to my stomach wasn't fair. It wasn't fair to me, which honestly, I don't really care about. What actually convinced me was realizing that no matter how hard I tried, whatever episode I delivered right now, just would not be as good as I would want it to be, it would be fine. Like, I'm a professional.

But I know y'all are smart enough to notice when the quality of the show isn't up to our usual standards. And it just didn't feel fair to me to pretend like everything was okay, even as it would be very clear to y'all that it wasn't. So instead of the usual episode, we are doing something a little different today, since I didn't want to leave y'all with nothing. And quite frankly, because we have contract expectations to fulfill. Though I do want to shout out our partners at a videotopia for their flexibility at a difficult time. So today, I have got a special guest with me here in the virtual studio, a guest that has been an absolute rock as we try to finish out this season under some extraordinary circumstances. That's right, I have somehow convinced my

partner and friend and normal Gossips lead producer, Sierra Spragley-Ricks, to join me. me on mic today. Sierra, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here to support my friend and chop it up with you today. I'm so happy you're here, not least because you're kind of always here. So it's nice that everyone else can hear you too instead of you being the voice in my head. I like being the voice in your head, though. I like it too. Today, Sierra and I are going to talk a little bit about what the past year has been like for us at the helm of Norma Gossip. I know this is a lot of people's comfort show, so I'm going to warn y'all that we will be talking about what it means for us as to Black women to be making this show under the second

Trump administration. If today is your no news day, then feel free to skip to the second part of the episode where Sierra and I will be reacting to some gossip morsels sent to us by y'all that neither one of us have heard. So all of that after a short break. And we're back. Sierra, hello. Hi. So officially we announced the transition in December of 2024. So to the audience, it has been about a year and some change. For us, it's been, I would say, about 16 to 18 months since we knew that this was going to happen. What has surprisingly been

one of the more controversial parts of this transition is the way that we talk about it, which is with the phrase, peaceful transition of power. I opened up a little bit in our episode with Jasper about why we keep saying that, because

I was honestly a little taken aback by how many people didn't understand why we kept harping on it. But I wanted to hear your thoughts as someone who understands podcasts and the industry far more than me about how transitions like this usually go, maybe some of your fears coming into it,

and then I wanted to know how you feel like our peaceful transition of power has gone. Yeah, I have witnessed these transitions happen frequently within our industry, and it does not happen. like this. It doesn't happen as smoothly and as intentional as our transition did happen. I have friends in the industry that I'm really close with that took over shows that was hosted previously by someone who wasn't a person of color. And when they took over it, that, you know, the new host who was either a black woman or a person of color, the audience response was really

harsh. And at the time, the second Trump administration hadn't, like we were in election season. And then when the announcement was made, he had already won. And he ran on rhetoric that was a high DEI. And to be frank, I didn't want us to be seen as DEI hires. I didn't want our work and our resumes question in a way that made us feel that we weren't worthy enough to take over the show from Kelsey and Alex. I am very understanding that this was their baby that built and cultivated the audience and they gave incredible seasons. But they also chose us to be the ones to continue this new chapter. And I was really afraid that in the climate that we were entering into this new chapter, that we would not be received well. And I think the transition has gone as well as it

did is because everyone at Defector was very intentional about that not. And I think the transition has gone as well as it did. is because everyone at Defector was very intentional about that not happening to us. And that meant the world to me. Yeah, I agree. I mean, the reality is that a lot of people, the entire audience, formed a relationship with Kelsey and Alex. I think something, a word that is tossed around a lot is parisocial. But before the advent, of radio, which is relatively recent, if you think about it, the only voices that you heard

were usually people you know. Like having someone's voice in your ear is actually a pretty intimate form. So it makes sense that people formed a very strong connection to Kelsey. And I think we both knew when we came in as just fans of other projects that there was going to be a section of the audience that was just going to say, you know what, to me, the show is Kelsey and I'm done. And a lot of those people said, we wish you well. And I appreciate that so much. And that was entirely within, I think, the realm of expectations.

But I think something that you just kind of highlighted is the fact that I won't speak for you, though I'm sure you've had a similar experience. of maybe not being called, but definitely made to feel like an affirmative action hire. Yes. Or in college for me, like an affirmative action like admittance. And I think we both know both intrinsically and also just sociologically. from a data standpoint, that what we've had to do to get here just entirely negates the idea of it being easier for us to be here because we're black, which is basically what affirmative action higher or like DEI higher than getting at

is the idea that the standards are somehow lowered for us to get in, rather than the fact that for us to even get into the room, we've had to overcome things that our white peers couldn't even imagine. And so I think we both shared that fear. And I think that is a huge reason why we kept highlighting that this transition of power was peaceful. Because as you pointed out, so many of those transitions that happened that left,

Black women or people of color just at the mercy of an audience were neglected or just ignored or actively set up to fail by business partners or editorial partners that didn't care to see those Black women succeed and didn't understand that by place. seeing a black woman in a position previously held by someone who wasn't a black woman, you have to proactively. Yes. Manage the expectations of your audience. You have to tell them how to act. And a lot of media organizations don't want to do that. And something I forever appreciate about Kelsey and Alex is that they both were like,

our audience is going to follow our lead. Yes. And our lead is that we are very happy and this is something that we wanted to happen and not only are we happy, these are the best people to take over this show. So I think we keep talking about the peaceful part because it's not just about us.

It's about the people around us who have ensured that this transition of power was peaceful. One of the things that I think about and I remember and I don't even know if I, I told Alex how that made me feel. But one of the first initial conversations that I had with her about coming on to the show and, like, essentially taking over her position as a lead producer, I remember we were meeting. That was one of our very first conversations via Zoom. And she is going over the role and talking with me about this position.

and I was like, hey, like, okay, so did you want me, like, you know, you already see my resume and things, but like, do you want me do an edit test? Do you need me to do this? Like, I'm naming just because, as you mentioned, Rachel, we are used to going above and beyond to prove our worth that we can do the job, a role that is being presented or offered to us. And I remember Alex being like, Sierra, I've worked with you before because she's, She was a guest on ICYMIMI when you and I were both there. And she was like, I also have listened to countless episodes that you've produced. So an edit test is not going to show me anything different because I already am familiar with your work and your work is good. And you should be proud of that and confident in that. And that carried on through our time, like the transition. and, you know, she's still the supervising producer, so, like, she'll, you know, give notes on different episodes and things of that nature. And she has affirmed my work and allowed me to feel confident enough to not second guess myself when making editorial decisions.

And that I really appreciate. And that's how you be intentional and affirm black women in the workplace. Right. I think something that we're both kind of pointing out is that our, peers and our colleagues have matched our own proactivity. Yes. Like they are not necessarily waiting for something bad to happen before they put plans in place. Like they are willing to think through worst case scenarios, which we have for almost everything that's happened this year. And luckily, they haven't happened. But just having those plans in place, I think,

have made us feel a lot better. And something I want to point out is that they've also so been humble enough to admit when they're wrong. I think a lot of white people, I think a lot of non-black people are so afraid of being wrong that they end up not listening to the black person in front of them. And no one is born knowing how to do this. Well and truly, the reality of being a human being is that you're going to fuck up. You don't come into this world knowing the boundaries of the people around you. And what matters is, A, non- internalizing that fuck-up as you being a bad person

because that's not how fuck-ups work. I fuck up. Doesn't mean that I should go kill myself, you know? Yeah, no, don't do that, Rachel. Yeah. But also being able to recover from those fuck-ups and then carry on and continue to have a good relationship. And so I have been very grateful for the environment that we've worked in over the past 18 months, even when it's hard. Yes.

Like there's never been a moment where I've been like what I'm experiencing here wouldn't be happening at another company and worse, you know? Right. I guess we've kind of been dancing around this, talking about this, sort of referencing this. But we are recording this episode towards the end of January, which means that for the past few weeks, we have all been trying to process the news and images coming out of Minneapolis where people are being hunted and assaulted by masked agents of the state. The editor of our show, Justin Ellis, is from Minneapolis and is also a black man. Actually, at this point, the majority of the core production staff of normal gossip is black. And something I have struggled to contend with this year is making this show, which is intentionally entirely separate from the news as the country descends into fascism. Yes.

It's incredibly hard because we're human beings, right? We have feelings. We have emotions. we have reactions and we are somehow expected just as citizens in this country to operate as business as usual. So seeing these flood of images on our timeline, reading the news and like dealing with and contending with the country's descent into fascism, but also do our jobs. It's really hard to try to divorce yourself from that reality because we're not supposed to. Like, we're human beings, right? However, I also think about when we were on tour,

and this was one of the many stops, I don't remember which stop it was. And I remember we were doing the meeting greet after the show. This woman came up to us and of course, like, you know, we took our pictures. And I remember her pulling us at a side and it was like, I love your show. I listen on my walks. And when I take a break from work, I'm able to listen to it and like escape for a moment. And that is what is helping me because like all of us, we have something that we escape to, right? May it be a TV show that we're a binge watching?

Rachel was just talking about traders in one of our meetings recently. And we, Rachel and I, like, texting on the side watching his and hers on Netflix. And, like, we all have something to try to escape to. So when working on our show, I, like, go back to that woman's comment. And I'm like, okay, we are creating that for her. and although my job isn't on the front lines fighting fascism or any of those things, I am providing a safe space and an escape for our listeners to be like, okay, because our listeners, they're smart, they're tuned into the news, they are on it.

And this moment of rest that we give to our listeners, they're able to do that, refuel themselves, and then go back and, be engaged citizens. So that's the way I look at our work as we're creating to this shit, the shit's the one thing. Because I'm like, I don't even know how to articulate fully what the fuck we're experiencing. No, it's impossible. It is impossible to articulate what is happening, not least because quite frankly, we don't even fully know what is happening, and that is the point.

No, we don't. My comfort escape content is Trixie Matel. videos. Like, I love Trixie Mattel. When I can't sleep, I just put on the I Like to Watch series Katia and Trixie, where they react to Netflix shows. So I have seen almost every episode too many times. So that is my comfort content. And in one of her videos, Trixie was saying that she knew that a lot of people watch her content as a sort of reprieve and how she took that responsibility seriously because I think especially as we become more familiar with the terrible ways that Hollywood works is hard to really empathize with entertainers but I think something

I started struggling with pretty early on was trying to maintain the integrity of this space as it was built. Yeah. Which is as a reprieve and not necessarily as a timely show, not responding to the news cycle. I don't want to say that it's apolitical because I don't think that it is. I don't think anything is apolitical. I definitely don't think gossip is apolitical.

And quite honestly, if you listen to the show closely, you can definitely figure out our politics. Yeah. So I don't want to say it's apolitical, but it's not engaging in the news cycle. And I wanted to maintain that. But what that meant for me as the person writing the show and scripting the show is I couldn't engage with the news cycle because it felt impossible for me to switch from reading about the genocide in Gaza. to writing a joke, quite frankly. It felt impossible to go from reading about federal employees being laid off from their dream jobs and the ways that's going to impact everything from our food production to the Weather Service to wanting to he-he-ha-ha-ha about a Eurochip gone wrong.

And it made me feel like there's no way both of these things can matter. There is no world in which both of these things can matter. And that's not true. But I found that I couldn't care about the stakes in our stories because everything around us had such high stakes. And we intentionally choose gossip that is low stakes. And I was having a really hard time balancing that. And I remember going to Kelsey early on and being like,

how did you do this? And she was like, well, we've never done the show in a Trump administration. And I can't say that that's not going to impact what's happening here. Because obviously bad things happen under every president. And, you know, the Biden presidency had its issues as most do. But the constant inundation of news that happens under Trump administration is, is different and that is intentional. And she was like, I've never made the show under those circumstances.

But she said, you're going to have to not be online when you're in production for the show. You have to pick a specific time to read the news, not every day. And those are your news hours. And then you're not online because it is not, the human brain just cannot take in the amount of newswork. seeing online in general, but having to take that in and then also kind of inhabit the world of normal gossip is just too much for one girl in handle. And so that means that for a lot of the production, I'm not super online. And it's both great for my mental health and also makes me feel bad because I'll be in conversations with my friends and they'll be talking about these

things that are happening. And I'm like, I haven't read the news in three days, which shouldn't actually be that much time. But right now, three days is a lot. It's a lot, babes. It's a lot. It's definitely a balance, I think, that I'm still finding between making this show and caring about the integrity of this show.

Because if I don't care about the stories, then why would you guys care about the stories and why would the guests care about the stories? And so I have to care. It is my job to care about these stories. And so creating the conditions under which I, as a black woman, can care about these stories while the world is falling down around me is definitely something that I'm still finding. I think it's like indicative of our culture, too, specifically a black culture. Even when we are under the worst of circumstances, we find a way to laugh. And I mean, again, it's been very hard for me since our last show to be like completely offline because that was our job to be online.

And I have changed the way in which I've interacted with the Internet since then. But even online, as we speak, there's a train going around like if I was an owl, how would you say who? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Jamaican whom or the Hoop of Baltimore. There's a Obama who there. Yeah. A Medea Who. There's a lot of who's out there, okay? But it's in those moments that I'm reminded that like we are able to find something to just laugh about and just have fun. And so as I go into production of the show, As I go into editing, as we go into recordings, I'm reminded of my late grandmother just, girl, you just got to laugh. Yeah. And we have to laugh to keep from crying at times.

And just to provide laughter and joy to our listeners helps keep me going through these very difficult to say the least, but deranged at times. And I'm happy to be a part of that for a lot. other people. That is actually a perfect transition into the last question I had for this little section, which I wanted to end on a slightly lighter note, which is, I mean, besides the Baltimore owl, what is giving you hope right now? Because I think as black women, both of us kind of have an understanding that hope is a practice. Yes. And, that what our enemies want, because yes, they are enemy.

And I do not feel like we should be shy about saying that. What they want is for us to lose hope and to give in to what's happening around us and to forget that other people are worth fighting for. Yes. So what are you doing to remember that? I will say I'm encouraged by seeing others lean in and tapping. the community. That's exactly what I was going to say.

Yeah. What's happening in Minneapolis is... Oh, my gosh. I know. It's so... What's happening with ICE in Minneapolis is so, like, horrific. But the community response to it is truly, like, it's giving me life. Yes.

In the non-hyperbolic sense. You know, like, it is actually giving me life in that people... are fighting for their neighbors. And I think something that both of us maybe felt after spending so long covering the internet is that people have forgotten that there are other people on the side of the screen. Yes. And seeing the way people in Minneapolis are rallying and creating, following around ice cars and, like, honking. Like, the way people are showing up even as they're being terrorized is so brave and so... just is beautiful to see.

It is. It is. That gives me hope that we hear this statement a lot that our country is so divided. And it is. Yeah. It is. Like, don't be mistaken. But when was it not?

When was it ever not? When was it not divided? The closest this country came to falling apart was about the country splitting in half over the question of like who is a human and who is it. But to see people as this country has been who has always been, seeing people just rally for one another and comfort and support one another and like, oh, this is where ICE is today, y'all. Do you want me go get your groceries? You want me go do this for you?

Like, that gives me hope. And it gives me hope that although there are people who may have thought differently in the past and excuse this inhumane behavior, They are waking up, I guess. And they are realizing that the way in which they were moving before was detrimental to society. And they are taking the time to educate themselves and to become proactive and rectifying the harm that has been caused by their actions. Yeah. I'm seeing it more and more. I am hopeful that this will do what it has in New York.

Hell yeah. That's my mayor. The first politician I've ever voted for. That's a lie. I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary in 2016. And I was happy about that. But other than that, every time I've cast my vote, I've been like, God, damn it. And I'm not even a New Yorker.

My ass is in Virginia. but I was happy for that because I feel like there is something brewing and I'm very, very hopeful that this sentiment spreads and we are able to make significant change and move away from this individualistic and capitalist society. That's my hope. Girl, that's all I got right now. I mean, that's huge. I was literally just thinking it is a tragedy, the horrific things that have had to happen for this to become true. But I remember in, I'm going to get the year wrong,

because time is a flat circle. But before I think the 2020 election, there were many activists calling to abolish ICE. Yes. And so many of their fellow leftists, their fellow liberals said that's impossible. Like, don't say that. You're going to lose those votes.

Like, we can't push that far. I remember when I was in college in 2016, we had a BDS campaign to get the school to divest from Israel. And that was so rancorous. I think it's hard for people who are maybe Gen Z or, like, younger than the age of 25, to understand. just how in lockstep the majority of America, the world Western society was on Israel until very recently, despite the horrific crimes that were committed before the last few years. Right.

And the large public sentiment change against Israel, against ICE in the past few years, some terrible things have had to happen. Like, unimaginable tragedies have had to happen, and they shouldn't have, because people have been calling for this for years. But I just remember people saying that it would be an impossibility

that we would ever get to a point where a large majority of people would support abolishing ICE or get to a point where a large majority of people support not sending billions of dollars of weapons to Israel while people freeze on the street in America, you know? And we've gotten there. Yeah. We have gotten there.

And so I'm just thinking of the things that people say right now that are impossible that will not seem impossible in a few years. Hopefully, horrific things don't have to happen for those things to come into place. But I think that is what is giving me hope right now. I remember when people were getting literally laughed out of leftist circles for saying we should send her abolishing ice.

Right. And that's not true anymore. And that's like a huge shift. It's a huge shift and it gives me hope that like when my niece is older, this is not something that feels impossible to do, but it's within like reach, like an election within reach, not so far off. And my hope is that nothing else horrendous happens. I'm not going to comment further or whether I believe that hope would come to fruition. Listen, hope springs eternal, you know, got to have some, got to have some achievable goals and some reach goals, you know. Yeah.

Reach for the sky. Plan to land among, I don't know what the rest of the stars. I don't fucking know. Reach for the moon land amongst the stars. There you go. Exactly. Period. But yes, exactly, exactly.

I think we are landing on the same place, which I think happens so often. you guys would not believe. But also, I think, means that it is time for a short break. Yes. After which, we will be back with some gossip morsels that neither Sierra or I have heard. Our incredible producer, Jay Tolviera, has really kept it down over the past month. Like, it's been a struggle. So thank you, Jay.

Thank you. We love you. And thank you, Sierra. And thank you to all of y'all. And we'll be right back. You know those pop culture scandals. You still can't stop thinking about, yeah, us too. So we made a podcast about all the ones we can't forget.

I'm Sadap and I'm Sarah. We're journalists and self-identified historians of celebrity gossip. On our podcast, The Reheat, we dive into the biggest celebrity scandals of the past and re-examine them with fresh eyes and a whole lot less shame. I never thought I would be a Samantha, but I really, really connect with her. her now. And I have learned to empathize with Marvel executives at this point, having done this much research. And I believe that... It's like pop culture therapy with your smartest, funniest friends. What do you wear for that important, historic moment? What do you wear for that moment?

I do love that. See, now what you're doing is dangerous. You're making me like Kate Middleton, and I never thought that I would get there. I feel like the two you could hang out and have fun. We probably could have a very good time. A very good time. Listen to the reheat wherever you get your podcasts. back and we've got some gossip morsels. Are you ready, Sierra? This is your first time being in the audience seat. Yeah, I hate it. You know, I'm too much of control freak for this shit. I want to know. Listen, I get it. But also, there's nothing better than being a little bit shocked, a little bit gagged, a little bit gooped, you know? So, let's see it.

Hello, this is Jasper, Defector's Business Guy. So I went to business school in the mid-2010s, not to generalize too much, but many people at top MBA programs think of business school primarily as like networking opportunities or finishing school or even just an extended vacation from work. And from that mindset comes a really heavy emphasis on traveling. There is a subset of MBA students who are trying to travel internationally, as often as possible. And there was someone I went to business school with,

let's call him Michael, who seemed to be just jetting off somewhere new every other weekend. So the academic calendar for our school before Thanksgiving did have classes on Monday and Tuesday, but many people just skipped those days of class so they could do some extra travel before going home for Thanksgiving.

Now, that Monday, I went to school. Probably a quarter of my classmates were not there. That was not surprising at all. What was surprising was that during class, a detective with the local police department came in looking for Michael. Michael's parents have been trying to reach him for several days, but he was not picking up his phone. So they called the police who went to Michael's apartment building and could not find him. So they sent a detective to school to ask around. And it did not take long for our classmates to realize what had happened, which is Michael was in Cuba.

So I went to business school in the exact couple years where there was a thawing in U.S. Cuba relations. So it was easier to do tourism there and a big group of our classmates planned a trip to Cuba. And 10 years ago, maybe still, you couldn't just show up to Cuba and expect your phone with your Verizon Wireless plan to work. So people were basically off the grid for a week. And of course, this was well known enough. So surely most people just told their loved ones where they were going. maybe they left a hotel landline number for emergencies, except for Michael.

Michael did not tell his parents he was going to be unreachable for a whole week. And we later found out the reason for that is Michael had been traveling all over the world without ever telling his parents he was taking trips because he was borrowing money from them to go back to grad school. And he didn't want them to think he was being frivolous with his time and their money, which no comment for me. So this started a long game. name of literal telephone because Michael's parents insisted on getting in touch with Michael

to confirm that he was safe and presumably yell at him a lot. So lots of people had to mobilize to try to get in touch with like the parents or siblings of other people who had gone on this trip to Cuba, but who had the itinerary and knew how to call the hotel. So this all ended up being a tough look for a, I don't know, like a 28-year-old man who considered himself a very cosmopolitan person of the world, right? But his friend's parents had to be contacted so that his own parents could yell at him. And it all ended up being fine.

Michael was safe. I would say he did travel noticeably less for the remaining time in school. So I think if there's anyone listening who's applying to get an MBA right now, just remember this story. And if you end up in a similar situation, just tell your parents you're going on a fucking camping trip nearby, right? there can be other reasons why you wouldn't answer your phone. Just get ahead of it.

So true. It is just like Jasper to give actionable advice at the end of his gossip story. I need to start from the beginning, which is realizing that people go to grad school for vacation. I'm sorry. Listen, that's another tax bracket that I have not touched. No, literally. I am. What do you mean you go to grad school?

school and you spend, how do you, where are you getting the money to travel internationally? This happened. I, oh, God, I hate saying this because it's the most pretentious sentence in the world. I studied abroad in Paris when I was in college. Ooh, we be. I loved it. Okay, Paris is incredible. Sue me.

But so many of my classmates would travel. And again, traveling in Europe is different from traveling from America to Europe. Traveling in Europe is so cheap. not cheap enough that me and 19 was traveling every weekend the way some of my classmates were. Also, I was like, we're in Paris. We have four months in Paris. Right.

Like, why are you going to Germany every weekend? Like, you're not getting it's fucking Burgine. Like, or however the fuck you pronounce it. So that's A. B, it is so funny to consider yourself a man of the world and then have your parents be calling every single person you know blowing up your spot because this is exactly what my parents would do

and I know that I know that your mom too your mom would be calling the way that I was thinking through this if I was on the phone with the cops or friends I'd be like can I just say with y'all for like a hot minute

literally no I'm like if my mom had to go to the limits of having not only to have the police come up to my school I would be like, actually, I'm going to need a police escort back home. And again, ACAP, but I'm going to need a police escort back to the United States because my mother's going to murder me when she sees on my life. Yeah, and I need you to stay for a considerable amount of time because she'd be glad.

Don't get me wrong. She'd be glad that I'm staying. But then she'd be like, and you couldn't let me know? Like, no, I don't need that type of smoke in my life. So, no, literally. My mother made me watch Taken before I'm staying. abroad in Paris. Just to let you know

the kind of woman my mother is I love her and I'm turning into her but she made me watch Taken Rachel, I'm sorry. And I was like, what do you have? This is not a documentary. It would have been like the drama male.

Anyway, so that, Michael that's crazy. all of this mess is preventable in a way that it's so 28 year old boycoded it's like they get a little bit close to 30 and they're like I've got it all figured out

and it's like you're dumb he's like look I'm grown grown I get to go on a strip exactly are my parents paying my way yes like I don't want them to think I am being irresponsible and grad school

but you are well and then he disappeared in Cuba Like, you don't want your parents to think you were... Okay, this is the male brain. I don't want my parents to think that I'm being irresponsible with their money. So I'm going to go to Cuba and not tell them so that they have to send a police escort and spend how many man hours to track me down,

which probably costs money. Definitely time. And time is money. Should they teach you that in your MBA program? At least make it sound like that you're going on there on assignment. No, exactly. You know, some real world experience in the business realm doing... International Business Relations, something I do.

In the business realm. I need you to think it through, okay, babe. Use some of that education to figure out your parents. Manage your parents. Yes. I love this. I thought this was going to go a different way when Jasper was like, many people use an MBA program as a vacation.

I was going to say many people use the MBA program to find a husband. That's what I know about her MBA program. But that's a different gossip story. What's the next morsel? Hi. Okay, so when I was around, I must have been age seven or eight, my dad took me to the local, you know, everything store. And I really wanted to go to the toy section.

And I kept pulling my dad's arm. And he said, you know, if you keep pulling my arm, you're going to pull it right off. And I did. I pulled my dad's arm off, and I lost my shit. I started sobbing. I lied down the floor. You know, I was inconsolable, and I remember thinking, I've ruined my dad's life.

I have pulled my dad's arm off. Like, I've forever altered his timeline. come to find out he was wearing one of those Halloween arms that people put out their trunks he had one stepped up his sleeve so

it's kind of a treasured memory okay oh bye bye I just want to shout out to our caller for like their remarkable level of like emotional stability. The composure.

The way they told this story of just like, this is a treasured family memory. I was crying. I thought I ruined my death. Like, this would be like a, my villain origin. Like, this would be the moment in my life where I turned evil because

I don't trust anyone. No, my trust issues after? Like, I, can you imagine being in the everything store looking at the toy section? And then your dad's arms! See, this is what I would imagine,

because, you know, the running joke on social media is like millennials are the new adults. So this is something I would imagine us doing, right? Yeah, yeah, something scarring and traumatic. Yeah, this would definitely end up in a TikTok right now. That is it. Your dad is diabolical and also funny. And I want to hear, this can't have been the only,

this can't have been the only prank he pulled like this over the course of your life I need to know more Can dad like send a voice note? Can dad send a voice know and tell this from his perspective? Because I'm so... Also I just want to

I guess maybe Did he figure this prank out in the store? Right. Did he plan this when he went in? Or were you like you always tugging on him a little too much not trying to make you you as the victim of the villain? You're a seven, eight-year-old.

You should be pulling on your parents' arm. It means you're staying close to them. Like, good job, seven-eight-year-old you. Right. But, like, when did this idea into your dad's head? Was he trying to teach you boundaries? Like, I need to understand dad. Also, did he take you to get ice cream afterwards?

Because I feel like you deserve that. I deserve ice cream days, all right? A month of ice cream. Because, like, I thought I, like, ruined my dad's life. Like... Your dad's a hoot and a hoot in a holler. No, but really, can you... Please, call her.

Can you just have your dad record a voice? Like, see, this is, I can't be in the audience. Like, power to our audience because I'm like, no, I need updates. And you're so right. Y'all are so brave for not knowing the whole story. Sometimes I really do appreciate that. Okay, last gossip. Let's journey back to the year of our Lord 2012.

Oh, God. There's no tender. there's no hinge. My co-workers, like, you gotta get out there. She takes it upon herself to create me a plenty of fish profile, which if you're old, you know, you know. And I read the profile and it's a thousand percent, not myself. It says things like, I like to hike and go to the gym and I eat healthy. None of these things are sure. So I'm finally like, there's, if there's going to be a profile circulating with my picture on it, I might as well, like, make it myself. I don't take any of this seriously, so I'm just like free typing on the thing, like a crazy person.

And I'm like, if they don't like it, then they don't like me. And if they don't, then they don't. Fast forward. I go on three terrible dates, all of which could be like their own separate movie. And I'm like, they're all serial killers. I will never go on another date from this Godforsaken thing again. I'm going to delete this shit. But there was one guy I had message, and I thought he was like really hot.

And I was like, let me just see if. He had messaged me back by any chance. Well, he had messaged me that morning and was like, so sorry, I was on tour with my band, but I would love to meet up and, like, talk. So I message him and I'm like, this has been crazy. I'm going to delete this, but if you want to talk, like, here's my number text. He texted me back. So we make plans to meet up at a Starbucks as you do, and we go on our first date.

And he's amazing. And I'm in love with him. And we go on a second date. and I'm in actual love with him and it's amazing. Like, not actual love, but you know what I mean. So we start hanging out and I go to his apartment. And for a guy, it is the cleanest apartment I've ever been in. He lives with his dad.

So we're dating for a while and I'm finally going to sleep over and, you know, wink, wink. So I sleep over and everything. And he's great and I fall asleep thinking this was like the best night. And I wake up in the morning and something is amiss. I got my period a week early in this man's bed on the lightest color of sheets, white possible. I need to die. I need to move to another country. I need to fake my death, change my name.

I need to die. I panic. I refuse to move. He wakes up and he's like, oh my God, you're amazing. Everything is amazing. You're perfect. La la la la. And I am still dying and not moving.

And at this time in history, those like, reddish purplish vitamin waters are everywhere and everyone's drinking them they're like the iPhone of drinks like everybody has them and I don't know the flavor I think it's like dragon fruit or something and I'm formulating a plan I tell him that I'm feeling a little homeover can you please get me the vitamin water and he does and he's like handing it to me the vitamin water and he stops and he's like I don't really eat or drink in my room so like please don't spill it I'm like, motherfucker. He's going to hate me, but I have no options.

This is it. Luckily, as he's handing me the drink, he's like, there's a really great breakfast place across the street, and I'm going to get these breakfast sandwiches when I'm home over, and I'm going to go get us some because there's nothing to eat here anyway, and maybe if you eat, you'll, like, feel better. And I'm like, oh, my God, thank you so much. I'm just going to lay here and sip on this vitamin water, like, very carefully while you're gone.

The minute. the millisecond that door closes. I take that vitamin water and I dump it all over the bed and these sheets and I feel like it's important to note that his dad was away obviously because like I would never hook up with him in the apartment while his dad was there by the way. Anyway, I go to the bathroom, I fix myself, I stripped the entire bed, I fix the laundry room, I scrub the sheets, I put the laundry up in the record speed before this man comes back, he walks in his room and I'm crying. Not because I'm a great actress but because I feel terrible. he looks like oh my god what happened and i was like i'm so sorry i know you told me to be careful

and i really didn't feel well and i thought i was going to throw up and i spilled the vitamin water everywhere and i feel so bad about it and i scrubbed the sheets and they are in the wash right now and i'm so sorry i didn't want to go through all your stuff um so i didn't look to see if you had any more sheets to remake the bed but if you do i will totally remake the bed and i am so sorry and i'm leaving like really pissed and unhappy and he's like holding it together you could tell and he's like it's all right accidents happen you didn't feel good that was so nice you didn't have to wash the sheets I would have done it so then I tried to joke around I'm like we needed to wash the sheets anyway am I right um I distract him and I'm really apologetic and I don't leave and we eat our egg sandwiches

and I'm really guilty but we fast forward to the next year we move in together Six months later, we get a dog. In 2015, we get engaged. In 2017, we get married. Now it's 2020 and it's COVID. And we're looking at houses, but it's 2020 and it's COVID, so we don't get a house until 20, 23. At which point, I'm pregnant when our first daughter. And in May, I go in for my induction.

And it takes forever because the baby's overdue and she's not coming. And we're really bored. So I'm like, is there anything you never told me like this whole time that we've been together? You were like afraid to tell me or a funny story or something. like you lied about and he he's like no not really you know I'm sure just like the normal things like I didn't like your haircut or I told you I did or something so I tell him the story and I'm like I never told you this and it's really funny actually and I tell him the whole story and he looks at me and he's like I knew something I knew it he's like this asshole I told her not to spill the drink and I was nice

about it and he's like why would you just have never told me this whole time And I was like, I don't know, just like in the beginning, I thought you were going to, like, break up with me or something. And I was embarrassed and then just spiraled. And I just like never told you. And he's like, I am a mature adult male. If you can have sex with somebody, you can deal with the fact that they have a period. And if guys can't be mature enough to deal with a period, then they shouldn't be sleeping with women. And he couldn't be men anymore because I pushed out our baby.

And now it's 2025. and we just had her second daughter. So people of the world lie. Yes. Lie with everything you have. And you just might get a happy ending. Okay, I'm not going to lie. I was like, there's no way this can be true

because literally the beginning of the voicemail, I heard baby in the background. And I was like, oh my God, baby in the background. That's so cute. I keep saying this on the subscriber episodes, but I literally love when you guys send us voice memos and I can hear what's going on in the background. and it makes me feel like I'm like right in the room with you.

No, exactly. I'm like, I'll hear the little turn signal. Come on. And I'm like, that's right. You signal. Pop off girl. So I heard the baby. And I was like, wouldn't it be so crazy if like this guy that she's talking about is the father of her child?

And I'm like, well, that can't happen because that would be too good. And it was true. Let me tell you. Plenty of fish. This is the second success. story that I know of from Plenty of Fish. And I can't go too much in detail because it's a friend of a friend situation. But they are married and have a child too.

Okay. I think I will say I think Plenty of Fish in 2012, as with most dating apps, is different from Plenty of Fish in 2026. But also, I've been on a dating app. What's the opposite of a binge? Fast. for I think a year at this point, never felt better, let me tell you. So I don't know what any of the apps look like right now,

and that feels so good for my brain. But I'm so happy for you, girl. You found your man on plenty of fish. I love how quickly you thought. I love how quickly the listener thought, okay, I need a red vitamin water. Okay, and I know which one it was. It was a blueberry pomegranate because I love the blueberry pomegranate.

I mean, I fucked with the dragon fruit too. And it doesn't really have a taste to it. But that blueberry pomegranate, it looked like it can be blood. Because I know, because I spilled that shit on my, like, white dress one time. And I was mad. So when she said it, I was like, I know which one you're talking about it. Oh, my God. Okay.

Wow. Again, such quick thinking on the callers part. I do have a question, which is, did it not get into the mattress? Oh, I was thinking the same thing. Unless it was just like she caught it in time. Yeah. Or maybe there was a mattress protector. Maybe she's one of God's favorite and is a light flow girl.

I don't know that. I don't know. We're really getting personal. We're just on the phone. Okay. Okay. Okay. So you get your little vitamin water.

You spill it. You put it in the wash. I'm not going to lie. When you said that he was very obviously pissed, I was a little bit just like fuck this man. But then I remember that like, people are allowed to have emotions. And I would also maybe be pissed

if I told someone to be careful in my white sheets and then they spilled it all over. And importantly, he looked pissed but then said, it's okay. Yes. Which is, I think, the important part of the story. Yes. The turning

point where I was like, I'm on this man's side. That emotional regulation happening? Exactly. I was on his side when he got the vitamin water and then said, I'm going to go get us some breakfast sandwiches. I love this story so much.

I love that the callers take away from this is to lie. I love also that you started a little bit of drama while you were getting induced for your baby, which is the point at which I don't think a man can ever say anything to you that is not like

you're so great. I never, literally, never want to be pregnant. But I do think it's really funny to use that opportunity to be like, I'm about to do something that you physically cannot and that you know is going to suck. And that... You can't be mad at me. You can't be mad at me.

So what? Have you hid anything from me? And she probably knows this man well enough to know that he does it. And then she's like, okay, well, I have the story for me. She's like, let me just create some chaos. No, exactly. She was like, I'm bored. Not enough is happening.

The contractions hasn't really settled. in yet, so let me just tell you. And then she said, all right, time to pop out the baby. Like, I wonder if he even remembers that she told him this story. Because, like, I don't know how much I would remember the conversations I had after, like,

my baby got popped out, you know? Honestly, she's a real MVP. I love her. No, literally, I think I said this half-foot through the voice memo. I was like, I fuck heavy with this girl. Like, she's an icon. She's a vibe. I love it. I'm obsessed.

So from the morsels today, we have learned to let people know that you are going somewhere just in case. You know, you don't want police teams to come searching for you to respect and honor people boundaries. So that way they don't have to teach you a very diabolical lesson and to lie. Wow. Those are definitely the main lessons that we need to take from today. Sierra, thank you so much for coming on mic with me. I know it is not necessarily your favorite thing, but you're so great at it. And it's so fun having you here.

And if any of y'all say anything but nice things to my girl, I'm going to come to your home. Rachel, no. And I'm going to throw away one of every pair of your socks. So you only have Mitch Mott socks for the rest of your life. Okay, you know what? This is time to wrap. We got to wrap this up. You can't be threatening them.

We just say we're going to bring them home. And now you're trying to bring destruction? Like, no, we got to wrap this up. I said if they say anything, they can, they can, it's mutually assured destruction, all right? Don't say anything mean, you can have your socks. All right? All right. That's it.

Okay. Bye, y'all. I appreciate that. Bye. Thank you for listening to normal gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at NormalGossip at Defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip.

If you love this podcast, want to support us, become a friend or friend of a friend at SupportNormalGossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at Normal Gossip. You can follow me on all social media at Hey Dene, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragly Ricks and J-Tolviera, Our audio engineer is Samantha Gatsick. The co-creators and Dowager Queens of Normal Gossip are Kelsey McKinney and Defector's Supervising Producer Alex Tujon Loughlin.

Justin Ellis is Defector's Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's Business Guide. Tom Leigh is our editor-in-chief. Dan McLeoddruns our merch store, which you can find at NormalGossip. Dot Store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Brandy Jensen, David Raw, Catherine Shue, Serena Imbler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Roddo for your help on this season.

Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. The Fector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and remember, you didn't hear this for me.