Normal Gossip - A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Sam Sanders returns for some gossip about a case of "accidental" love-bombing in a hostel. Follow Sam on Instagram here and check out The Sam Sanders Show for more hot takes on entertainment and culture. We recommend you start here.Get your tickets for the Normal Gossip Live tour here!Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here!Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

[♪ MUSIC PLAYING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, B have no fear, if you want more normal gossip in your life, then I've got some incredibly exciting news. This September, Sierra and I are bringing normal gossip to nine different cities we are stopping in New York, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Denver, Dallas, Austin, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Tickets went on sale to the public on Friday, May 9th, so that means if you are listening right now

and live in any of those cities, you can go buy a ticket immediately at normalgossiplive.com. Every show has exclusive VIP tickets that include a meet and greet with Sierra and I, so I hope you're all planning what delicious little morsels of gossip you're gonna be bringing us. That is all the housekeeping for today's show.

Now, on to the gossip. Today, I am so excited to have none other than Sam Sanders joining me for the first repeat performance of this season. Sam was on the very first season of Normal Gossip in an episode called Digmatize. Sam is a multi-hyphenate. You might know him from any of the many shows he has created and hosted. Currently, though, you can hear him on Vibe Check with Saeed Jones and Zach Stafford.

And also, you can, of course, hear Sam Sanders on The Sam Sanders Show on KRCW. Hi, Sam. Thank you so much for joining me and welcome back. It is so good to be here. I remember being on an episode in season one, and I had so much fun because I remember it being about a straight male bartender who was messy.

And I remember saying, aren't all straight male bartenders messy? You did. You did. You did. You said the red flag was that he was tall, that he was cute, and that he was a bartender. And ever since then, whenever I see a tall, cute bartender, I say, I shouldn't.

Molly, you in danger, girl. Exactly. We, me and you, are part of a very exclusive group, which is the people who were guests on the very first season of Normal Gossip. We were on and you, are part of a very exclusive group, which is the people who were guests on the very first season of Normal Gossip. We were on the train before everyone else. How does it feel to be a Normal Gossip hipster? Listen, what do I feel like knowing that I was an OG?

Yeah. It feels good, it feels iconic, and I don't want to be one of those gatekeepers. All are welcome in, just know. We had good taste first. Yes, there you go. Exactly. Pay respect to your elders.

No exclusion here, just recognize who paved the way. Recognize who saw the vision. It was Kelsey and then it was us. Come on, come on. This is us. You've obviously already answered the question of what your relationship to gossip is. You said that gossip is a check on making sure that group norms are followed, which I love.

But I wanted to ask, do you feel like your relationship to gossip has changed at all since 2022? It has. And I'll tell you how. It's going to get a little deep, but trust me, it's not too deep. Your team reached out and they were like, we wanna talk to you about what kind of gossip you're experiencing now. And I have been having a lot of moments

gossiping about the dead. Oh. Yeah. And I never considered talking about the dead to be gossip, but like, it is. The definition of never considered talking about the dead to be gossip, but like, it is. The definition of gossip is talking about someone who isn't there, making them the third person. And I've been doing that a lot with my mother. She passed away maybe two years ago.

She'd been sick for a while, it was time, we're glad she's at rest. But as soon as she died, people began to tell me stories about her that I'd never heard before. Oh my God. Most of it good, a little bit messy. But I was like, oh, this is gossip. And it's like, I believe once someone close to us dies, we have this special ability to imagine them in many ways after they're gone and make versions of them that help us and speak to us throughout our lives. And the gossip about my mother is helping me do that.

Yeah, I imagine. I feel like you're getting a new view on her that you didn't have before, like a new perspective, like a piece of a puzzle is being filled. Exactly. I will give you an example that's really funny. Please. Well, first, for starters, after my dad died many years ago, I'll never forget, the gossip started then, in the limo to the cemetery after my dad died. Oh, my God.

A member of my family told me, oh, that person you think that is this kind of relative, they're actually that kind of relative. Their mama wasn't their mama. Like, literally. I know it's messy, but I love that kind of gossip. I love it. Give it to me.

Someone's father is their father. Tell me immediately. Yes, yes. Who's the father? Exactly. So this gossip from my mother, my favorite bit of dead mom gossip recently, I was out with some friends at a mall in LA. And a lot of malls in LA are

really cute, really she she but like indoor outdoor. So it's kind of open air, there are water fountains and fixtures and you can walk in the sun, which also means that like kids can just run and be a mess. Yeah. Even more so than they could in like a normal mall. And I remember seeing this young boy act in a fool. And I called my aunt Betty later that day and I said, you know, Betty, they don't make them like they used to. These kids are a mess.

They're not raising them right. No home training. Oh my God. And I said, I guarantee you, I know for sure, my mama, your sister, didn't raise me that way. She didn't raise me and my brother that way. Yeah. And my, I bet he pauses. She starts laughing and she says, that is so not true.

Y'all were baby's kids. And I was like, excuse me, miss? And she goes, y'all were baby's kids. And I said, what makes you say that? And she goes, y'all were baby's kids. And I said, what makes you say that? And she says, I'll never forget, Sam, you and your brother were maybe like six or seven. My aunt Betty had come to visit her sister, my mother and all of us.

And we all were out shopping. My mother was in a store that she likes. My aunt Betty was with her. And my brother and I, who were little banshees, were running around like crazy, my aunt tells me. And she's like, y'all were playing hide and go seek in the racks of the clothes. I can see it.

Running up and down the escalators, just being a fool. And so my aunt Betty says, she goes, I'll go to your mother, my sister, and I say, Regina, catch your kids. What are they doing? This is bad. Sit them down. And then Betty says, my mother puts down the dress she's looking at, looks at my aunt Betty,

and she says, as much money as I'm about to spend in this store, my little black boys can cut up as much as the white kids. And then my aunt Betty sat her ass down, and that was that. But it revealed to me that, like, this version of my mother that I had created, this strict disciplinarian... Yeah.

Not quite. Not quite. Didn't exist. Oh, my God. Okay, iconic line from your mother. I got it. Obsessed? Yeah. I feel like one of the things that happens as you get older is that you start seeing

your parents as people rather than just your parents. And you realize that they were fully formed humans before you even showed up. Before you existed and that they had whole lives that don't include you. And it's like, oh, that's wild. I don't know how I feel about that. Oh, yeah.

But then for that process to continue with like, your mom's gone, but you're still learning about her. Like, that's so beautiful. Yeah. And like, you know, a lot of times, gossip amongst the living can be combative, it can be reductive, it can be messy. Gossip about the dead is usually expansive.

And in my case, it's been mostly joyful. Yeah. It can be messy. Gossip about the dead is usually expansive. And in my case, it's been mostly joyful. Yeah. And I am at the age now where like these words pop up on the internet and I'm not quite sure what they mean and I'm past the point of like going to urbandictionary.com to find out. But I keep seeing the word lore manifest online. Oh, yes. And I was thinking to myself, I was like, you know what?

When they're alive and you're talking about them, it's gossip, but when they're dead, it's lore. No, you're right. It's a beautiful thing. I love that. Wow, Sam. That was a gorgeous piece of gossip. Listen, Regina Sanders.

Also the phrase dead mom gossip is a book title. Girl, come on. There you go. Dead mom gossip. You need it. Let's write it. It's by Sam Sanders. I wouldn't buy it. I'm buying it right now at bookshop.org.

Yes. Yes. Sam, that was a beautiful piece of gossip. Maybe one of the most beautiful. Aw, thank you. Now I have some for you. I love it. Let's dedicate this telling of gossip to my messy mama, Regina Sanders.

Uh, to Regina Sanders. Support for normal gossip comes from Airbnb. It's been a while since I've taken a proper break and gotten out of town, so lately I've been daydreaming about a trip to Quebec City. I mean, we've got cobblestone streets and cozy cafes and all that gorgeous French architecture. Yes, please. And for those like me who are planning or even daydreaming about a trip, I would recommend hosting on Airbnb.

While you're off exploring places like Old Quebec or eating your Wheaton poutine, your place back home could be earning you some extra travel money. Hosting is practical, flexible, and honestly kind of a no-brainer if you're going to be away. Got a trip coming up? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Today our friend of a friend is named Drew. And Drew is in his mid thirties. He's British and he's...

Let me tell you something. You're skeptical? Brits pretend to be drama free, but they're messy. The accent fools you. Are you psychic? I might be. You hear the accent, you're like, oh, they got their shit together. You hear the accent, you're like,

oh, they got their shit together. Pfft. Ha ha ha. DERREN LAUGHS Well, Drew has just finished his third year of teaching literature at a university at the UK, and he is setting out on his annual vacation. Mm-hmm.

Sam, do you know the kind of guy who's like most defining characteristic is that they love to travel? Yeah. DERREN LAUGHS Yeah. And you never know how they love to travel. Yeah. Yeah. And you never know how they get all that damn money. You never know. It's always a mystery. It's always a mystery.

Drew is one of those kinds of guys. Okay. Part of the reason he'd actually ended up in academia was because he loved that they had, you know, mandated breaks in a school year. And he could travel. Exactly. I'm going to be honest. I'm a girl who won't travel unless it's in comfort.

Yeah. I will not be backpacking. There you go. I will not be sharing a bathroom with strangers. I will not have an itinerary. I will not be wearing shower shoes. I'm going to wake up, see how I feel. Exactly.

There's no, like, laundry list of things to get to. We're not climbing mountains. We're not, no, no. Mm-mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What this means for me is that I don't travel a lot because the way I travel is very expensive, and I would rather have an oatmeal latte whenever I'm sad.

I get that. I get that. Drew is not like this. He will forgo a little treat so that he can spend at least three months a year traveling. Three months? Three months. Okay. How do you feel about hostels? Let me tell you something. I can't describe your face, but I'm going to need you to describe the emotion that provoked

that face. Listen, I wasn't always making decent money. I was broke a lot of times. I was broke a lot of times. I was broke a lot of times. I was broke a lot of times. I was broke a lot of times. I was broke a lot of times.

I was broke a lot of times. I was broke a lot of times. I was broke a lot of the emotion that provoked that phase. Listen, I wasn't always making decent money. I was broke a large portion of my twenties. And one thing I never let myself do was stay at a hostel. I will say the one time I went into a hostel. Into what? Was to have relations with a man. And I finished and I left and I said, never again to the man or the idea of a hostel.

Never again. Yeah, we're on the same page. Unfortunately, our friend of a friend, Drew, is not. He, despite being in his 30s, loves staying in hostels. Partially because they're cheap, but also Drew feels like it's the easiest way to meet interesting people when solo traveling, which he does a lot of. I don't need to meet any more new people.

Yeah. I've stayed in a hostel exactly once. I have to admit in London for two nights and I said, never again. I was 19. It was like, I'm good. Not Drew. Not Drew. Drew is in it. For this year's vacation, he is backpacking through South and Central America

for two whole months and staying in hostels the entire time. Wow. First, he's going to Havana, then to Mexico City before ending his trip in Cartagena. Okay. That's a lot. Isn't it? Yeah. In two months, Drew found his hostels through his absolute favorite app,

the Hostel World app. This is a real app, by the way. Girl. It has a 4.9 rating on the Apple Store, Sam, which surprised me. I don't know why. I don't like that. Not only can you find and book hostels through the Hostel World app, you can also connect with other Hostel World users nearby

and meet up for excursions and even DM people. None of this appeals to me. Same. Same. But it appeals to Drew, because his motto for this trip is basically, do it for the plot. Oh, Drew's a mess. He's an agent of chaos. So I am not like a do it for the plot ass bitch.

Like, I love a five year plan. You know what the plot is? The plot is my bills and my job. The plot is me living in comfort. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. So, one more important thing to know about Drew, besides the fact that he is a do it for the plot ass bitch, is that our friend of a friend has what I call boyfriend energy.

Define that for me. So, flirting comes as naturally to Drew as breathing. He holds really good eye contact. When he's talking to you, it feels like you're the only person in the room. He knows how to ask follow-up questions. Like when he makes you laugh, he like touches your arm a little bit.

You know who he sounds like? Who? Bill Clinton. I remember they used to say, back in the day, whenever Bill Clinton was talking to you, it was like no one else existed. And we know what happened there. I was going to ask, have you encountered boyfriend energy in the wild? But it sounds like I'm asking, have you met Bill Clinton?

Never met Bill. Never met Bill. I will say one of my best friends who is not Bill Clinton has boyfriend energy. Luckily, this friend has a boyfriend himself now, but when he was single, it was actually really wild to witness. Like people would just fall in love with him to a point where I would be mad because people weren't falling in love with me. But at times it really did start to seem like a really big hassle because he would

be trying to have like a chill fling. And then three or four dates in, he's getting questions about like, commitment and attachment styles. I think there was a phase in my youth where I probably attempted that kind of energy. And then I realized I'm a little bit too neurotic and self-centered. So it's not gonna work. Now I just mind my business. So this is Drew's plate. And it's a plate if you don't want to be a boyfriend.

But if I learned anything by staying at a hostel for two days in London, is that hostels are a perfect place to not find a boyfriend. Yeah. So Drew was setting off on his vacation with peace of mind. Mexico City and Havana are both incredible. So when Drew touches down in Cartagena, he's on a high and he is just really, really looking forward to a kayak tour that he's already booked on.

You guessed it, hostile world. Girl, that's work. That is not vacation. See, I was gonna ask, are you an activities person on vacation? But I'm getting a subtle hint that you're not. I love to be outside. I like to be physically active, hiking, running, all of that.

If I'm going to get in the water, it's going to be for about 10, 15 minutes. And then I'm going to sit by the water, preferably with a drink. And if I get on a boat, it needs to have a motor. Someone else needs to be driving it. And I better have a life jacket. And I would love for there to be a bathroom on board.

No arm workout. I do biceps at home. There you go. Drew loves a little tour. This little tour is departing from the beach at eight in the morning. See, stop. You're out your goddamn mind. eight in the morning. See, stop. Ha ha ha. You out your goddamn mind.

Eight in the morning. They're kayaking to a nearby island that apparently has a breathtaking view of the city, and then they're going to eat breakfast on the island, and then they're going to return to Cartagena before noon so they can beat the afternoon heat. There are three other people who get up at this time for this tour.

There are a pair of girls from Denmark Denmark who will be referred to as the Danish girls and a guy from Australia named Oliver. Technically there are four, if you count the guide, but we don't really care about the guide, so they're not important. The Danish girls are in one kayak and Oliver and Drew are in another. The Danish girls are in one kayak, and Oliver and Drew are in another. And Drew can't help noticing that as they're chatting and paddling, that Oliver keeps winking at him. Is Drew straight or gay?

Drew is bisexual. And I'm gonna be quiet. Drew also can't help noticing that Oliver can't actually wink that well, so he just keeps emphatically blinking. But Drew's like, okay, I think I know what's going on. And when Oliver mentions his ex-boyfriend with an emphasis on boy, Drew's like, okay, I definitely know what's going on. I get it.

But you know what though, how are you gonna like run game and Mac on someone and be hot when half your body is inserted into a kayak? I can't spit game in a kayak. Well, somehow Drew manages to notice that Oliver is cute, despite only being able to see the upper part of his body in like a very stereotypically Australian way, like very tan, very blonde, very friendly. How are you feeling so far? I am wishing we could have given this script to Mike White for season three of The White Lotus. Ooh, yeah. Let's not talk about that last episode.

I know, girl, see, anywho. Drew actually has an experience, a whole lot of romance on this trip, besides like a dance floor makeout in Mexico City. And Drew's like, we need further plot development. So this is all working in his favor. Okay. So our kayakers get to the island and they have a lovely breakfast. Everyone's like, isn't this the best fruit you've ever seen in your entire life?

Like they see some beautiful views and it's when they're heading back to the island and Drew is getting into the kayak that his foot slips. Oh. And he feels his like calf scrape against like the wooden edge of the dock before he falls into the ocean. See now. It's bound to happen. You called it. Listen, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Luckily Drew is not me and he is a strong swimmer. So it wasn't too hard for him to get back to shore. But Drew is like, I have tripped very dramatically in front of a cute guy. My clothes are soaked and my leg is bleeding profusely. Oh yeah. Yeah. What do you do? I mean, and at this point they're still on the island, so they got to get back. Yes.

Years ago when I was a breaking news reporter, my newsroom at the time sent me out to hostile environment training where you learn what to do if you're like in some shit. And the only thing I remember is tourniquet. Make a tourniquet! Make a tourniquet! Make a tourniquet! Make a tourniquet! Make a tourniquet! So maybe he could have like flipped it up and made it hot again if he ripped his shirt off, of like flipped it up and made it hot again if he ripped his shirt off, showed his muscles, and then tournicated his leg. That might be hot.

Sam, I swear you're psychic. Drew doesn't have a chance to do that because Oliver immediately rushes over to help. And Oliver takes off his shirt and applies pressure to Drew's bleeding leg. You know what? Maybe I've got it all wrong. Maybe I need to go to a foreign country, get on the kayak, and wait for a hot man to tourniquet me. Drew can't help noticing Oliver is very muscular.

Oh. Oh. What are the Danish girls doing in the midst of all this? They actually went to go find a first aid kit. Oliver tells Drew this as he is like, are you OK? That looked like it hurt pretty badly. And Drew thinks he sounds very brave when he's like, it's not that bad.

It is that bad. Wait, really? It hurt like a bitch and honestly, probably could have used stitches. Oh, no. The thing is, though, Drew doesn't feel like navigating a health care system in a country he doesn't live in. Same.

So they get back to the city, and once they're back, Drew goes to a pharmacy to stock up on like bandages and disinfectants. And since he only has a few days left in Columbia, he's like, I'll just keep it clean. I'll take it easy. I'll probably be home by the time anything goes wrong, if anything goes wrong, which it probably won't. Do you think this is wise?

No, he probably got an infection. That is a fair concern. But Drew's not really pressed at the moment. Like, by the time he finishes bandaging his leg, his primary thought is, time to get back to the plot. He shoots Oliver a DM on Hostel World. Girl, you can DM on Hostel World? You can DM on Hostel World. Listen, it's like hipster tourist grinder.

That low-key seems to be what it's giving. Yes. So Drew DMs Oliver, like, I owe you for taking such good care of me. Dinner tonight? On me? Mm-hmm. Okay. So Drew hears a little notification sound from Hostel World, and Oliver responds like, I'd love to with a little smiley face, just name the time and place.

So a few hours later, Oliver and Drew meet up in the historic center of Cartagena at a restaurant that has like linens on the table and low music playing and candles lit, like everything is is screaming, date in capital letters. Yeah. Including the flirty little banter between Oliver and Drew. Love it. So they continue the night after dinner

with a romantic little stroll through the city. They're walking slowly, allegedly, because of Drew's fucked up leg. We all know that's not why they're walking slowly. Mmm, they're falling in love. Drew's like, leg. We all know that's not why they're walking slowly. They're falling in love. Drew's like, this is low key giving Florence Nightingale, but a plot's a plot. A plot's a plot.

A plot's a plot. Eventually they find a bench by the beach, again, allegedly to rest Drew's fucked up leg. But again, we all know what's really going on here. Drew is at the point where he's starting to feel like a little bit grateful for his fucked up leg. That leg is helping erase hundreds of years of historical bad blood between the Brits

and the Australians, because we know their history. This is a peace mission. The mission starts going even more successfully because all of their kisses drew. Oh. You're staying in a bunk room in a hostel. Do you try to hook up? No. No.

At this point, you max out your credit card and get a hotel room. Drew is like, my leg's honestly starting to hurt a little bit, and I'm not taking you back to my bunk room in a hostel. So they just end their night with a cute little make out and make plans to meet up the following morning for breakfast. Well, something I forgot to mention about Drew

is that he has boyfriend energy, but he's also kind of a hopeless romantic. He's just a little too into Lord Byron. Mmm, yeah, no. No. He loves the grand gesture. He does. Handwritten letters, I bet you. Well, his friends have told him that he can accidentally love bomb people. It's never an accident.

Well, Drew's like, it's just because the bar for romance is so low these days. Mm, Drew, Drew, Drew, Drew, Drew. Drew's one of those guys who was always the mess but never thinks he's the mess. That's Drew. I'm feeling that. I'm starting to feel that. Let me not judge too early, but I'm starting to feel that. That's the name of the game here, judge early and often. Okay, okay, I'm in. The morning after Drew and Oliver's make out on the bench,

Drew hobbles his way around the neighborhood to prep a little breakfast picnic for the two of them. He buys some jam and fresh bread. When he sees a little bouquet of flowers, he's like, why not? Let's set the mood. Oh, Drew is love bombing. OK, Drew. If someone did this for me, I would be like,

you want to get married. Exactly. You want to have children with me. for me, I would be like, you want to get married. Exactly. You want to have children with me. Show me like what kind of green card do you need? You're coming home with me. Immediately we'll start that paperwork right now. Yeah. My auntie's on FaceTime. She wants to meet you.

It's happening. Yeah. When Oliver sees Drew with all of his picnic supplies, Oliver is like the shocked Pikachu meme. Just like, eyes wide open. It's too much. Drew's a little bit like, damn, bitch, you live like this? He's like, this is the bare minimum.

You deserve better than this. Oh, oh, oh. Oliver gives him one of his little fucked up winks. That's not really a wink. The blink, the blink. The blink. Blink. Ha ha ha. And he's like, I'm starting to think I do deserve better. They go have their little picnic, and they're resuming

their flirty little banter. They're talking about their travels and their zodiac signs. Oliver is a Pisces. Drew is a Sagittarius. OK. Oliver is telling Drew about his venous and cancer when he's like,

yeah, I can get attached to people a little bit too easily. Mmm. And then Oliver is like, and I definitely absolutely believe in love at first sight. Oh, God. See, I almost wanted to be rooting for both of them. Yeah. And now I take it back.

They deserve whatever mess befalls them. Drew's like, oh, okay. So now Drew is freaked out. Well, then Olive returns to him and is like, what if I told you that I love you? Wow. A man you have known for 30 hours has just asked you, what if I told you that I love you?

What do you do? If I'm getting all these pick-me vibes, love bomb vibes, what we're going to do is hook up. And then I'm gonna, like, slow walk you for a few days, assess how I feel, and then reengage. Yeah. Because I am, let me try the milk. You're like, all right.

Yeah. Let me try the milk, see how it runs through my system, and then reassess. But there will be no saying, I think I love you. Well, Drew is like, since we met yesterday, I would probably say, I don't love you back. Yep. And Oliver sort of laughs and is like, yeah, you're right. It would be crazy if I said something like that.

And then Oliver's like, but you know, hypothetically, how do you feel about long distance? Girl! So Drew chokes on a passion fruit seed at this point. The symbolism there, choking on passion. Wow. Wow. Beautiful. Beautiful.

He's like, my last relationship was long distance and it really didn't work, which is a lie. Do you think that this answer that Drew has given Oliver will satisfy Oliver? I bet you Oliver's like, well, we can do it better this time. I can beat that. Yeah. Drew is like, I don't even really want to give him the chance to respond.

So to distract Oliver, he starts making out with him. A flawless plan that works. Okay. Okay. Just shut up and kiss me. Literally. He manages to keep things light until they get back to the hostel and Oliver's like, let me know your plans for tomorrow. Andrew's like, yep, I'll keep you posted. Bye. Huge news. Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times bestselling book of beautiful

essays about gossip. It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, Mostly True Notes on Gossip, and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun and not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audio book, which Kelsey narrates. You can buy wherever you buy your books. You can also go to kelsemckinneybook.com to see all retailers.

Support for Normal Gossip comes from Airbnb. It's been a while since I've taken a proper break and gotten out of town, so lately I've been daydreaming about a trip to Quebec City. I mean, we've got cobblestone streets and cozy cafes and all that gorgeous French architecture. Yes, please. And for those like me who are planning or even daydreaming about a trip, I would recommend hosting on Airbnb. gorgeous French architecture? Yes, please. And for those like me who are planning or even daydreaming about a trip, I would recommend hosting on Airbnb.

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Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. So Drew has just escaped Oliver. So, Drew has just escaped Oliver. He gets back to his bunk room and he meets two new people who have moved in. Drew, stop meeting people. I think you're good. You're good on friends. You're good on friends. These two new people will be referred to as the Canadians because they are from Canada.

Drew and the Canadians vibe pretty well. So when the Canadians ask Drew if he wants to join them for a night out on the town, he immediately says yes. With that leg? Girl. But the plan for the night is to bar hop. So he feels optimistic that he'll be able to find... Hopping on one leg.

He's like, I'll be able to find a seat. Oh my God. How do you feel about karaoke? You know what, actually, I fucking love it. It brings the people together. It does. Drew takes karaoke extremely seriously, but not in the annoying way.

Not in the annoying way. Not in the bohemian rhapsody way. Exactly. That song is too goddamn long. Don't do it. And mean, that's the way. Like, that's long. It's too goddamn long. Don't do it. And you can't hit the notes. No, my go to karaoke song, salt and peppers, push it. It's probably like 18 words. And everyone knows them. That's a great choice. Drew also has some staple songs. So he immediately sings with arms wide Open by Creed with the Canadians. Honestly, I have done Creed's higher at karaoke.

It works. Yes. So they've just finished singing with Arms Wide Open. I take it back. I love this story now. They sang with Arms Wide Open. But then into the bar walks none other than Oliver. Girl. The Canadians had been too friendly and had apparently posted about their karaoke night

on the Hostel World app. This is a problem. Drew's like, I have been betrayed by my one true love, the Hostel World app. Yeah, also, gosh, talk about an agent of chaos, the Hostel World app. I know. 4.9 stars. Oof.

Oof. I know. Messy, messy, mess, mess. Oliver immediately sidles up to Drew and he's like, you want to sing a song together? Do you sing a song together? Oh, no. No? I'd be like, you know, hitting those notes on that Creed song.

I need to rest my voice. Vocal rest, baby. Vocal rest. Drew's like, karaoke is a sacred space where no one can be excluded. So he's like, yeah, sure, fine. He perhaps makes another mistake by letting Oliver pick the song. See, we already know Oliver doesn't make great decisions. Doesn't think before he leaps. So, Drew joins Oliver on stage and the opening notes of Islands in the Stream

by Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers start playing. Wow, is that a lot? You know, I know the song and the melody, never dug into the lyrics. Let's see. Is it like a love song? Well, I do have some choice lyrics for us. There are, baby, when I met you, there was a piece unknown. And then there's the message is clear. This could be the year for the real thing.

And we cannot forget all this love we feel needs no conversation. Oh, no. I follow the lyrics now. There's another line that says, I set out to get you with a fine tooth comb. What? I can't live without you if the love was gone. Oh. But that won't happen to us.

And we got no doubt. Too deep in love, and we got no way out. Ah! Oliver's the human embodiment of the heart eyes emoji after this performance. Yeah. But the thing is, Drew can't even deny that they crushed their performance. They have incredible chemistry.

Drew, Drew, Drew, Drew. How are you already that lost in the sauce? Well, Drew retreats into bro mode. He's like, dude, we did so good. And then he runs away to the bathroom. Did you like my bro voice? I love that. I love that. Thank you. Thank you.

Love that code switch. Yes. So, do you end your night here? Or do you try to keep the night going? Yes. I am out here. I... From the bathroom break, I sneak out. And maybe I'll even go back to the same hostel, because he knows where it is. Yeah. No. No, girl.

I think that you're smarter than Drew, because Drew is determined to keep the plot going. Drew? Drew, what is your trauma? Drew? So he gathers the Canadians and is like, I heard about this incredible jazz bar, but the line apparently gets really long after 11, so we should head out. And they make their escape as Oliver is on stage singing A Thousand Miles by Vanessa Carle. The mess on mess. They make it to the jazz bar, which is dim, and the music's so loud that Drew can like feel it in his bones, and it is absolutely free of Australians. So the vibes, immaculate.

All right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Drew and the Canadians stay until 1 a.m. when they get hungry and they're like, let's go find a street cart. And they find one, Drew's mouth is watering when he reaches for his fanny pack. And this is the first time that Drew realizes that his fanny pack is no longer around his waist.

Girl. Drew's fanny pack that has not just his phone, but his wallet. Oh, no. Drew doesn't go out with his passport, so that's still back at the hostel. Thank goodness. But his plane ticket is on his phone.

No. And without his wallet, he can't pay for anything. No, Drew. Have you ever been pickpocketed? A car that I had years ago got broken into. but he can't pay for anything. No, Drew. Have you ever been pickpocketed? A car that I had years ago got broken into. But what I had was so raggedy, they literally just dropped the bag

next to like the parking lot. I kid you not. That's like insult to injury. They were like, we don't want their shit. I'm like, not only did we try to rob you, but we don't even want what you have. Literally. Literally. Yeah. Yeah.

Drew is drunk enough that he's not panicking at this moment yet. He hobbles back to the jazz bar, but the fanny pack isn't there, and no one has seen it. Drew goes from the jazz bar back to the karaoke bar. Still nothing. And at this point, the Canadians have thankfully lived up to their reputation and they've been very kind.

They've like helped Drew go from bar to bar. And at this point, they're like, listen, we'll cover you for the rest of the night and you can use our phones tomorrow to sweat your shit out. We can at least get your plane ticket. Like, you can print it out. Listen, when in doubt, call a Canadian. Except Drake, not that one. Yeah, when in doubt, call a Canadian.

Except Drake, not that one. He don't count no more. Yeah, so Drew's like, thank you so much. I appreciate it. And the Canadians are like, you want to go to another bar? Girl, you might need to call it, Drew. No, no, no. Yeah, I feel like you would have gone home like two bars ago.

You know me. You know me very well. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like you would have gone home like two bars ago. I would have gone. You know me. You know me very well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, at this point Drew's like, what else could go wrong?

My leg is fucked up. My phone and wallet are gone. I have an Australian who is stalking me. So like, fuck it. We ball. Let's go. Wait, but you gotta say it in Drew's love bombing British accent. Bullocks, we ball, let's go. Wait, but you gotta say it in Drew's love bombing British accent. Bullocks, we ball.

I don't know, that was bad. That was beautiful, we're keeping that. Keep it. So Drew and the Canadians, they find another bar, the Canadians state true to their word, and they cover Drew's tab, and they're not stingy either, so everyone's feeling real good. And Drew's almost forgotten about his lost fanny pack.

He's working through. He's working through. Yeah. And then into the bar walks Oliver. He's stalking him. The Australian is doing something suspect. The town ain't that small. LESLIE At what point do coincidences count as stalking? BOWEN Listen, listen.

Is it coincidence or is it stalking? Is it anxiety or is it intuition? I say yet again, Molly, you in danger, girl. LESLIE At this point, you and Drew are now on the same wavelength, because Drew's like, I'm done with this shit. Yeah. Yeah. And he finally just tells the Canadians what's going on. He's like, you see that guy over there

who looks like really Australian? Mm-hmm. He told me he loved me 24 hours after we met. I bet you when I'm gonna call it right now, Australian has a fanny pack. See, now I'm going full White Lotus. As you should. I'm like, wait. And then Drew's like, I can't deal with this right now.

Can we just leave? And the Canadians are rational people. And they're like, yeah, let's go. Let's go. Let's get out of here. And they hustle Drew out of the bar before Oliver even gets a drink. Okay. Okay.

So, Drew's leg is hurting pretty badly at this point. Because he's been walking on it all night, singing karaoke, like, come on, dude. But he also wants to see the ocean one more time before he leaves. Every time I think I like Drew. ["I Like Drew"] Every time I think I like Drew. Every time I think I like Drew. He does some bunk ass shit like this. What's a better place for an open wound

than a place with sand? The ocean at night. I will say it's a beautiful night. There's like a crescent moon in the sky. All nights are beautiful. I'm not always, I mean, come on. I don't need to see them. I don't need to see it. I don't need to see it. Yeah, so they've just sat down on the beach when Drew sees someone sitting on a bench in the distance.

Girl, it better not be. Someone blonde. Someone muscular. No, you better stop. Someone who looks Australian. Oh! This is an erotic thriller. Ha ha ha! Fatal attraction.

Was this a film released in the early to mid 90s, starring Mickey Rourke? Ha ha! Oh my God! Do you tell Oliver to go stop stalking you? See now, one, I would not put myself in this situation. Yeah, so it's three in the morning. Every second of this story, they are straying further from God's light.

And Drew continues straying because he's like, I'm drunk, I'm in pain, I've been robbed, the sanctity of karaoke has been taken from me and I am sick of this boyfriend energy curse. Yeah. Drew's like, fuck this, I'm gonna go tell him off. Tell him off. So Drew makes his way up the beach very slowly because again, he's drunk and in pain.

Yeah. And, in fact, Drew's going slowly enough that he has a chance to realize that the person on the bench is not Oliver. He's not even blonde. He's just sitting under a streetlight. Oh, no! Drew stops and he's like,

fuck, that could have been a disaster. That could have been a disaster. And he's about to turn around to return to the Canadians when he hears, like, a really familiar sound. Again, Drew's drunk, so he can't quite place the sound, so he just kind of looks really closely at the man on the bench who is sitting next to a jacket that looks to be draped over something.

Mm. Drew's like, am I plastered or is that guy sitting suspiciously? Mm. Drew's like, who the fuck sits crisscross applesauce on a bench at three in the morning? Yeah, something's going on. Something's going on. And of course, Drew walks closer, I bet you. Oh my God.

Just as he's having this thought, the jacket makes that familiar sound again and Drew is finally like, oh, it's the DM notification sound from the Hostelworld app. The real villain is the Hostel app. Banned it from the Apple store. Literally.

Drew is suddenly possessed by that sort of, like, blinding conviction that only really, really drunk people have. Mm-hmm. Like, he literally told us in his email, I don't know how I thought this in my drunk brain, but I thought my bag is under that jacket. Oh, main character energy. What do you do?

I mean, what if it's just the guy on the bench's back? What if he has the hostile world out? Thank you, because I mean, it seems like all the kids in this town do. I'm gonna tell you what I would have done, which has never gotten into this situation, but I'm gonna tell you what I would have done, which has never gotten into this situation, but I'm gonna predict what Drew is gonna do and that is confront this stranger

with his Canadians who deserve better. It's justice for the Canadians. Yeah, they ain't do nothing wrong. They're just trying to help. Yeah. So, the DM notification sound comes again. Mm-hmm. And Drew just doesn't think. He grabs the jacket.

He goes to this man on the bench who he does not know. Does not know. A complete stranger. He just grabs the jacket with that drunken conviction. But there, lying on the bench, is his fanny pack. What? Is there a crime syndicate off the hostel app? lying on the bench is his fanny pack. What? Is there a crime syndicate off the hostel app? Drew does not have time to think about that. He throws the jacket in the face of a guy

who looks just as shocked as Drew does. Yeah. He grabs his fanny pack, and then he runs as fast as he possibly can. What? Which is not very fast because his leg is fucked up. But the Canadians, who have done nothing wrong and everything right, have already come to look for him.

So they meet him halfway down the beach. And they're like, where did you go? What just happened? Who is that guy? Mm-hmm. And Drew's like, I just experienced a miracle. Is what happened. Wow. I need to know so many things. And I'm feeling like we might end this conversation with still

some unanswered questions. And that's the normal gossip promise is an unanswered question. Ha ha ha ha. Oh, what a ride! So Drew tells the Canadians what happened and they're like, wait, so who was DMing you so much? Like, what was going on?

And Drew's like, oh my God, I was so caught up in the moment. I haven't even checked my inbox. Yeah, yeah. Who do you think was DMing you? I was Australian. Baby, I can't live without you. Come back. We'll live in Perth.

Melbourne. He opens the Hostel World app, opens his inbox, and is greeted by a series of increasingly drunken messages from none other than Oliver that are all like, -"Hey, babe." -"Babe." -"Beach tonight, my love." -"Beach tonight?" I mean, in a way, beach tonight, my love. Beach tonight? I mean, in a way, Oliver was Drew's miracle. I mean, none of them feel like miracles right now.

This is wild. Drew has incredible luck in a way that astonished me when I read this email. Drew, you're lucky to be alive. What does Drew end up doing with all these DMs from the Australian? Well, the next morning, Drew runs into Oliver at breakfast.

Girl. Do you talk to him? No! No! You cannot talk to him under any circumstance. No. Well... Oh, my God.

Drew's grateful enough to have his phone back that he tells Oliver the whole story. And Oliver is shocked. Well, and Oliver's definitely like, oh, I'm in now. And then he's like, sounds like I should keep blowing your phone up. Girl.

And what does Drew say to this? This is wild. Drew's like, ah, and then makes his escape. Wow. And that's basically the end of our story. Do you block Oliver on Instagram when he inevitably sends you a follow request after this? I know Drew didn't.

I know Drew didn't. I know Drew didn't. So many red flags and so many people waving them. With joy. Just an army of red flags. An army of red flags. A United Nations of red flags. Come on. So Drew made it okay?

Yes, Drew made it home okay. He did not have gangrene. He got his leg seen too. So he home okay. He did not have gangrene. He got his leg seen too. So he's okay. I gotta go have a cigarette. I gotta bring myself down. Y'all got me riled up. Drew, we're here to help.

Drew, you deserve better. No, write to us, we can help you. I'm gonna send you a note to send to Drew. It's about self care, it's about boundaries, it's about a lot. Oh, Drew. We'll pass it along. Please do. That'll be the first time that's happened.

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com, or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at normalgossip. You can follow me on all social media at HeyDNA, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sarah Spragley-Ricks and Jay Tolviera. Thank you to Samantha Gatsik, our audio engineer, and thank you to Danielle Hewitt for your

additional production help this season. The co-creators and Dowager Queens Normal Gossip are Alex DuJong Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defector's Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's Business Guys. Alex DuJong Loughlin is Defector's Supervising Producer. Tom Lay is our Editor-in-Chief. Dan McQuade runs our merch store which you can find at NormalGossip.store.

Tara Chukobi designed our show art. Thank you to Catherine Chu, Brandi Jensen, Luis Pérez Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for all your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and remember, you didn't hear this from me. Radiotopia. From PRX.