Normal Gossip - Bonus Episode: Rat Kings and Emotional Support Eggs with Sabrina Imbler

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Today's treat: an episode from our secret feed vault. If you'd like to get in on these monthly extra episodes, subscribe as a Friend or a Friend-of-a-Friend. Our guest this time is Sabrina Imbler! After catching up on Sabs' latest project—a series of interviews with federal workers fired by the Trump administration—Rachelle and Sabs partake in a batch of gossipy voice memos from our inbox.Sign up to watch SPLITSVILLE with Rachelle on August 16th here.You can find Sabs' interview with fired CDC Health Communications Manager Sarah Boim here.You can find the rest of the interviews in this series here.You can subscribe to Sabs' newsletter Creatures NYC here. Get your tickets for the Normal Gossip Live tour here!Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Hi, it's Rachel here from Normal Gossip, and I want to tell you about one of my fellow Radiotopia shows, a podcast that I cannot get enough of. The Kitchen Sisters present. Stories from the B-side of history. Stories that illuminate our nation's unsung heroes and visionaries that reveal new ideas and new ways forward. Kitchen Sisters is sound-rich, deeply layered, full of interviews, oral histories, archival audio, and music. They're stories that keep the spirit moving. coming on The Kitchen Sisters present, Ice Cello, a look at the lives of six trailblazing women cellists, the honesty boxes of Scotland, naturalists as keepers, and stories of farming, filmmaking, activism, music, and more. And they have a deep archive of hundreds of stories available anytime you need a port in the storm. Here's a little taste of a classic from the

archive. I'm George Foreman, two-time heavyweight champion of the world. I'm an Olympic champion and king of the grills. Growing up in Houston, Texas, my whole life was spent trying to get enough to eat. Having seven kids, my mother did, and that just was never enough food for me. I always dreamed about, not a car, not a beautiful home, but enough to eat. Check out the Kitchen Sisters present at kitchensisters.org or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to normal gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton.

And in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Welcome to another bonus episode, y'all. We have officially started production on season nine of Normal Gossip. And we will be announcing the premiere of that soon. But in the meantime, we did not want to leave y'all high and dry. So we thought we would bring you another previous. a subscriber-exclusive episode that features some extra

delectable little morsels of gossip submitted by y'all. Before we get into the gossip, some light housekeeping, first, if you somehow haven't heard yet, Sierra and I are going on tour in September, which is somehow a month away.

Ah! We officially have all of our tour guests lined up, so bear with me as I recite a bunch of names and cities. In New New York, I will be joined by Slate Senior Writer and Scamphluencer's host, Sachi Cole. And in Boston, I'll be joined by comedian Josh Gondelman. Josh Gwynn, award-winning podcast producer and host will be joining me for the Seattle show, while Slate Culture Writer and Dera Gough will be joining me in Portland. For Denver, I'll be joined by Sam Sanders, the host of the Sam Sanders show and Vibe Check. In Austin, none other than Doward your queen of gossip, Kelsey McKinney will be taking the stage with me. And for the Chicago, show we have been blessed by the presence of the one and only Che Cule. And for our last stop in Minneapolis, superstar podcaster Tracy Clayton will be closing out the tour. Y'all, I am so

fucking pumped. These are my very first live shows as the host of normal gossip. I am taking my responsibility to entertain extremely seriously. And I have a really good feeling that y'all are going to love the show or putting together. Also, I just can't wait to me, y'all. But speaking of meeting, y'all, if you don't follow us on Instagram, you missed out on some exciting news, which is that on August 16th, I will be hosting a free screening of Splitsville, a relationship comedy that stars Dakota Johnson and Adria Arjona. The screening will be at 7 p.m. at the Lincoln Center AMC. And did I mention it's free? Like free 99. We'll put the link to RSVP and the show notes. All right. That is all the housekeeping for now. On to the gossip. Like I said, this episode was previously a subscriber. exclusive. If you subscribe as a friend or friend of a friend, that means that every month, even in between seasons, you get a special little subscriber-only episode. Sometimes the episodes

are discussions of the things that we're reading and watching. In fact, a little birdie told me that August's subscriber episode is going to be a wine-fuel chat about fourth wing, the Romanticy novel. So sign up if you want to hear that. But just to give you all a taste of what you're missing out on, here is our May subscriber episode. which stars, none other than Defector staff writer and close friend of the pod, Sabrina Embler. Sabs is one of my absolute favorite people, and early this year, they published an incredible series on Defector where they interviewed federal workers whose jobs have been eliminated by the Trump administration.

I know that for a lot of y'all, this show is an escape from the news cycle, and I am honestly honored to provide that, but platforms are to be used. In the ever-evolving fascist shitstorm that is the second Trump administration, a lot of stories can end up being lost in the shuffle. like what was even happening in the spring, you know, I don't. Well, I do. Because what was happening and it's still happening is a lot of people who dedicated their lives to public service being subjected to horrific treatment by the very entity they dedicated their lives to. At the top of this episode, Sabs tells us about their experience interviewing these federal employees, and we will be linking to several of their interviews in the show notes. And now it's time to get into the gossip. We have got five delicious voice memos from listeners that, happened after that interview with Sabs. Enjoy. Sabbs. Welcome back. Thank you for having me back, Rachel. It's so good to be here. I'm so excited. Last time you were here, we were talking about your incredible series where you made all of us watch some iconic Christmas movies. Yeah,

and we talked about sexy Jesus. And I think about that every time I see him, meaning Jesus, I kind of evaluate like, is he fuckable? Like, how fuckable is Jesus? today. Well, A, I'm really glad to have left that impact on you. And B, that makes me want to ask, how often are you seeing Jesus? I am in a state of despair, as many of us are. And that has brought me back to law and order SPU, which has a lot of, like, Catholic crimes, like a lot of priests doing wrong. So I mostly see Jesus on the screen. as I'm, like, chopping my mirropois. You say it when you're like, my tiny onions, my tiny leaks.

Yeah. My little mesum place. Yes. Yes, that is, that's what I was trying to say. I was like French word. They're the same. I will say when you said that you're in a state of despair and that it has made you return to something,

I thought you were going to say the church. And I was like, Sabs, I didn't think things. It only hasn't even been 200 days. imagine I'm born again I have found him gossip to talk about I mean I feel like each of us has like

you know like a limit that if we reached we would find the church or whatever the equivalent of our church would be and honestly maybe for me that limit is like Jesus is fuckable all hail well before we do any more blasphemy I did want to ask you

a little bit about the time that we're living in, which are full of despair, and also about your latest project, which has been incredible to witness. You've been conducting a series of interviews with federal employees who have been fired by the Trump administration. And you recently interviewed Sarah Boym, who in the aftermath of being fired from her dream job at the CDC started this newsletter for other fired CDC workers called fired but fighting. Great name. Could you tell me a little bit more about Sarah and this newsletter and how you see it kind of fitting into the broader response of federal employees who have seen their livelihoods upended. Absolutely. Doing this series has been very

emotionally inspiring, but also emotionally exhausting in a way. It's funny how many of the folks I speak with say they've gone through the five stages of grief, like around their firing, because, you know, it's so hard to get a federal job. It's something that you have to work years towards sometimes. And in Sarah's case, It was really extra tragic because her mom also works for the CDC and she sort of joined her mom working at the CDC also as a health communications manager. And she was talking to me about some of the great work that she did there. She worked on this project called heat risk, which is like a heat forecasting tool where you can enter your zip code and then it'll tell you about like the heat risk in your area. So basically she was spending her days at work trying to help the public understand their health, understand their safety, things that I've.

I loved that she was doing as she was doing them. But Sarah and, you know, an enormous number of health care workers, federal health care workers, have been fired by the Trump administration and Elon Musk and his like made up department. And something that's been common with these firings in every department is the people who are being fired have no idea what's happening because the people who are firing them are like 24 year old. dweeps who like don't understand the federal government, don't know how to fire people. Several of the folks I spoke with have been fired repeatedly, like they were fired. And then, you know, a lot of judges have been contesting the legality of these firings. And so they've been reinstated. And then they've been fired through another route. Like, it's very, very stressful. And so when Sarah and her former colleagues, after they were fired, they were just trying to figure out, like, what is our

recourse? Will we be reinstated? Like, there were so many questions floating around and so much misinformation as well. And so she and a bunch of her coworkers basically started this signal chat where they would crowdsource information. And they realized that there were so much misinformation that they wanted to start a newsletter, basically to be like, these are facts. We know that these are the facts surrounding how we were fired, the future of the CDC and, you know, these other health care institutions. And this newsletter became this coalition called Fired But Fighting, which, as you said, is an amazing name. And it's, basically just a coalition of CDC workers who were unfairly terminated by these layoffs and they've

become this group to basically advocate for their reinstatement and the reinstatement of other terminated public health workers. And also to talk about just how fucked up this whole process of firing has been, right? Because whenever a new presidential administration comes into power, they'll hire some people, they'll fire some people, but it's never happened like this. And truly just the stories that I'm hearing in the ways that people's lives have been devastated. Like I spoke with a single mother recently who sold her house and moved here with her five-year-old son to like start this job. And now she doesn't have a job. She doesn't have health care. Like she, yeah, it just, it's really, it's really infuriating hearing these stories.

Yeah. I'm sure. I mean, something that is often referenced. When workplaces are terrible or toxic is, like, the role of gossip in it. Like, I feel like the beginning of union drives are often just gossiping. And so I wanted to ask because this is the gossip show, what role, if any, do you see that playing in the lives of these, like, fired federal workers at the moment, like, is fired but fighting and the signal chat that you mentioned, like, are those channels? Are people talking to each other, basically? Absolutely. I mean, I really, and I have no, like, data to back this up, but I feel like this is the most important time for DC group chats.

Like, I think they're all a fire. And I think, yeah, the signal chat that Sarah Boym started with her co-worker is, like, it absolutely was a form of communicating information through gossip, because, you know, some of it is, like, facts and some of it is sort of, like, rumors like I heard this is going to happen because a lot of these federal workers right they've seen other departments laid off you know the week before and so they're like I feel like I'm next like I'm gonna a lot of these people also were tipped off right by other friends or co-workers they have elsewhere in the federal government of like oh this is this this email is coming for you tomorrow and so I think they're all enmeshed in gossip like whether they want to or not and a lot of the folks I've spoken with have been spending a lot of time on Reddit because that has a become in weird ways, like a more reliable source of information, not necessarily about the firings, but about like, what are my rights right now as a fired person? And so I guess TLDR, like the people be texting. And they are often in signal because that is a more secure

way to text. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It also makes sense that a lot of this is happening on Reddit because it feels like one of the few platforms we have that is, not there's some algorithm stuff on like your home page and whatever but it feels like one of the most reliable sources of information and it's also anonymous though I will say people who are on Reddit it is very easy if you comment a lot on Reddit to figure out information so please think about that I feel like I'm in a lot of snark pages and people are like I'm good and I'm like you can get docs really like please be careful so you know you're very Reddit comment history is public.

That is such an important PSA because after I left Twitter, because it was feeling really bad, I started spending a lot of time on Reddit. And my favorite thing to do is, like, read through the, you know, like, am I the asshole? Like, or like, is this outfit appropriate for a wedding? And it's like, no. And then when someone comment something deranged, I will click on them. And I'll be like, let me read everything you've ever written. And, like, create this idea of you as a character.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, same. This is why I'm giving this PSA is whenever I see something absolutely unhinged in like the New York City influencer snark page, I immediately click on that commenter. And I'm like, what else do you commenting on? And then I'm like, this is, girlie pop is really easy to figure out who you are. I don't care. That's not my job. That's not my business. But like, operational security. Opsack. Yes. I'm going to ask you a question that. I kind of hate getting, but unfortunately I must ask, which is, you've been doing these interviews for about two months now. And as someone who's kind of steeped in it, is there anything that, like, the average person who is not federally employed can do besides knowing what's going on? Like, I feel like there's a real sense of helplessness. And I'm, some of it's real and some of it's not. And figuring out what is and what isn't is helpful. Yeah, I mean, I think, and this is going to sound so stupid, but like, what I've been hearing from a lot of folks is just the importance of calling your representatives. Like, I feel like Kelsey wrote a great blog about this, I'm sure,

about just like, now is the time to be seriously annoying your elected officials who are supposed to represent you and like letting them know that you want a functioning CDC, that you support national parks that have trails that you can actually walk on because, you know, there aren't like fallen trees or just like piles of trash that grizzly bears are kind of come and like eat while you're walking and trying to enjoy the park. The more noise you can make on behalf of these federal workers, like it's so unclear what that will result in, but it will, I think, at least help send the message to the people who have a little bit more power than us.

Yeah, unfortunately, I don't know how much control we have over the economy. It's not something I can speak on. Unfortunately, I don't understand her that well. She seems kind of made up sometimes. I don't think she understands herself. And like, do any of us? Really? Aren't we all on a journey of self-discovery?

I know. The economy needs to go to therapy. The economy needs to go backpacking through Europe for a few months. Wow. Have a Cheryl's Strait moment. Exactly. Show the toe blister. Like, go do something, please.

Like six-month blackout on Instagram And then suddenly like a photo of a sunset And it's like the economy is healing Yeah, no She needs to have a Lizzie McGuire moment In Italy She needs to be almost scammed by a guy who can't sing And then find her long-lost Italian sister

And then she can come back new and renewed Beautiful Beautiful reference to a beautiful movie This is what dreams are made of, Thabbs Paolo sing for me paolo um no i think that's really real i would say for all of our listeners before you think about sending us a voice memo call your representatives and then send us a voicemo do both you're already on the phone yeah there are like 500 billion things that are

bad that are happening you can call them about any of those things truly anything you can fax them too yes they're not going to pick up you're just you're leaving a voicemail you don't have to worry about talking to anybody. Yes, that is something I was, I was, like, so scared of when I first started calling my representatives and it's like, oh, I'm not actually speaking with Mr. Chuck Schumer. No. Although I'd love to. I'd love to. I'd love to give him a peace of my mind. Just be like, Mr. Schumer, retire, bitch.

There's definitely so much more to say on this, but we are going to get into the gossip, what you're here for, but if you would like to read more of these interviews, which you should, we're going to put a bunch of links in the show notes. One last piece of business

before we get into the affirmation gossip, we would love to do more episodes like this. So if you have a short gossip story, please record a voice memo and email it to us at normalgospatdefector.com

and then call your representative immediately after and leave another voice memo saying retire bitch. Support for normal gossip comes from Airbnb. Lately, I've been daydreaming about summer getaways and one place that's high on my list, Prince Edward Island. I would love to spend a long weekend exploring the island's beaches, bike trails, and eating as many oysters and fresh seafood as possible. Our friends visit

PEI regularly and they're constantly telling me and my husband that we need to visit. And while I'm off enjoying our little island getaway. Instead of my place just sitting there empty, I could be earning a little extra money by hosting on Airbnb. It's a smart way to put my home to work and help cover the cost of the trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. ready for some gossip? I just perped. So the answer is yes.

You can leave it in. I will say like I, when I learned that I was coming on this episode, I was like, you know that photo or like those videos of baby birds that like have just left the nest, but they don't know how to eat yet. So they open their mouths because like that's how their parents know to put worms in there. But then they're on the sidewalk and they see a worm and they're just like opening their mouth. That's me. and then the worm is the gossip story.

That's a beautiful mental image. And I would love to feed you some gossip. So my parents live in a condo association. It's not like a condo like an apartment building. It's like kind of small houses all on shared land, which is relevant. And so the drama is that there are these two cliques in the condo association. We have the old timers who have been there for decades. And then the young people, which is a relative term, it's like my parents and their group of friends.

So it's like in their late 50s, early 60s, kind of. And so the board is all old timers. And it's dominated by someone I'll call Nancy. she's the queen fucking be absolute nightmare of an 80 year old um and there are a handful of people on the board all in the old timers group um my dad was on the board for a little while but he quit because he realized that nancy was just changing the rules to fit whatever her personal agenda was and he is a man of principal and so he quit um but one of the board members is a man that I will call Ralph, his condo faces my parents. And there is a lot of people in this condo

association are artists or art collectors. So there's a lot of like big sculptures or like metalwork or kind of cool art on people's like kind of portion of their own lawn or outside. And so my parents wanted to put out, they got these like street signs that they won from some asylum auction from like streets that we used to live on growing up. So there was like these like metal street signs. And they wanted to put them up outside their condo. And so they did. They went ahead and did that.

And there was also this like kind of metal work lizard piece of art that they wanted to put up. At the next board meeting, Ralph pitched a fit. He said that they had to take those down because there's some rule in the bylaws that say you can't hang art up on the outside of your unit and my mom was like okay what about the like big ass sculpture outside of nancy's unit and that flustered Ralph he had not considered that um or like he had been caught red-handed also keep in mind this is a group of like a lot of them are lawyers or retired lawyers so so they're all arguing with each other

And Ralph is like, okay, it's like switch tactics. Like, well, sure, fine. But those are actually art. And these street signs are not art. And my mom was like, who are you to decide what is or is not art? And I am at the time I'm living with my parents and I'm upstairs in my room and they're having this board meeting in my parents' living room. and just my they are screaming at each other um that's not art well who are you to decide what is or isn't art are you the god of art and it was just it was the funniest thing i've ever heard in my life

just fully my mom doesn't yell often she's much more like kind of you know she'll do the like biting comments but she doesn't yell she doesn't raise her voice oh boy i have never heard her yell like this, defending her metal street signs as art. So anyway, she finally, she gave up. They did not put up the art. And they took down the lizard, which also, okay, the street signs sure, but this lizard very clearly art. Whatever. I don't even know where to start with this.

I always love a dynamic where you're like, the younger people in their 50s or 60s and it's like okay we are in a specific place right now youth is always relative but like as i was listening to this i was like this is the perfect thing for an 80 year old person to do which is like not hold political office for the u.s. government but instead sit on a board of your condo and stir some shit like that's appropriate you're entirely right i would rather Ralph be arguing in someone's living room about what constitutes art? A really philosophical question. No, really.

I'm like, how are you going to get to the bottom of that question in this living room? Like, I guess they just decided nothing is art. I want to see the lizard statue, by the way. Yeah. I also want to see the street signs. Whenever I looked out my window in one of the apartments that I lived in, I saw, like, a barb flag. like a Nicki Minaj, like, saluting over the American flag. And, like, it was so big.

It was like, wow, the beautiful skyline and, like, Nicki Minaj. But it's like, that's that person's right to, like, hang that flag. And, like, I grew to appreciate it. And, like, maybe Ralph would grow to appreciate the metalwork lizard over time. No, it's true. I mean, I now I want to see what Ralph would do if you saw the bar flag hanging from somebody's condo balcony. I think his life would be changed. I think he will become a barb.

I think he would learn all of the words to Nicky's verse and monster. I think he was... For the condo talent show. The condo association talent show. If I bought property, that's mine. You can't tell me what the fuck to do with it. How is there a whole association, homeowners associations, condo associations, co-op boards that are telling me what to do of my property.

That's like coming into my house and being like, your cat can't do that. Fuck you. That's mine. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think as long as we have the system of private property as it operates. Exactly.

In the United States, like, let me hang my fucking lizard outside of my fucking condo. No, literally abolish private property. I'm okay with that too. But if we're going to have private property, I'm going to do what I want. on it like yeah that's crazy um this mix we want to ask have you ever found yourself in an argument and like in the middle of it you can tell that it's you're like this is i shouldn't be yelling like this there's no reason for me to be this yes this upset yes i have been there um the one that's coming to mine is me and my roommate once it was like midnight i think this was like during

the delta wave of COVID. So we were like back inside after having the vaccines and we were like, I can't believe we're doing this again. And it was like 1.30 in the morning. And we were arguing about for some reason Harry Potter, don't know why. We both are like fuck J.K. Rowling. But ahead of your time. Yeah.

This was 2021. So she was already on her way. Yeah, no, that's fair. That's fair. But we were like, I think. I think the argument was predicated on, like, why could Harry not see the testials when he had seen his parents die? And she was like, well, it's because he was a baby.

He didn't know. And I was like, so it's like, you have to understand death to see death. And then at some point, I remember yelling, can blind people witness death? And that was the moment that I was just like, and you know what? It's time to go to sleep. And it's bedtime. It was also the angriest I've ever been at her. Like, we don't get mad, but it was only this argument, and it was just like,

this is, we got to go to sleep. Wow. Yeah. I mean, and that's a good question. I think they can. Experiencing death is not just relegated to one sense. Right? You can touch when someone dies, they, oh God, we don't need to like go into corpse talk, but like,

they become cold. They become stiff. Like, I'm, maybe there is a. a whiff of death that emerges, like a pherom. Oh, there's like a death rattle. Like, there's all these other things. Yes, exactly. I'm like, you should have been able to, that's a pothole.

Fuck you, J.K. Rowling. He should have been able to see from the start. My version of that is when I was in high school and I was at an aquarium with my entire family, we were walking in the aquarium and my parents were like, turtles are amphibians. And I was like, that's not true. They're reptiles. Yeah. And my entire family were like, they live in water.

They're amphibians. And I was like, no, amphibians can breathe through their skin. Amphibians are frogs and nukes. Turtles are reptiles. My parents were like, you see these turtles? Like, they're in the ocean. Like, that's an amphibian. I felt so crazy.

And I was like, I know. Right. And I couldn't tell if it was like an elaborate bit. But I really think they all were so convinced. and like I don't even think they really cared that much but they were all ganging up on me and I felt and I was I was screaming at the aquarium I was screaming

I was screaming I like A is the performance of this argument like your voice I was like your voice work incredible let's just start there I'm back there but also there's nothing more enraging

than everyone being wrong but because there's numbers, they're right? And you're like, no, I'm right. No, I can see that right now. And also, you won. You're the creature expert. But you know what? If I brought this up to them again, I'm sure they would still be like,

nope, they're amphibians. 100%. Yeah, they can never admit that they're wrong. Yes. Yeah. We've gone far off the trail. Okay. Let's march back.

Let's march back. Lest we not get lost in the woods. In the ocean. In the sea grass. Where the amphibians go. Yes. Not the reptiles. No, no.

Reader. Listener. That's not where they live. Okay. Next gossip. I hope it's about an aquarium. A friend of a friend is in a birding group. It's actually a feminist birding group in her city.

There was an unofficial feminist birding group. and there is an official organization called the Feminist Birding Club, and they had started an unofficial chapter of it. So they just didn't go through kind of like the rigam roll of it, of getting all the paperwork set up. But they had a pretty well-established group. It was a very nice community for them. It was great.

This past winter, they noticed that someone on Instagram has started their area's Feminist Burying Club. So, of course, they're like, oh, someone in our group decided to start Instagram. Turns out it was nothing in their group. It was a different group of people entirely. And a couple people in the group reached out to this Instagram account. And they're like, hey, like, who's doing this? We'd love to connect.

Like, we have an unofficial group started already. And it's, you know, we're really excited about this starting. And they got ignored for weeks. Like, definitely kind of a weird vibe of, you know, wait, why aren't we, like, connecting? Like, this would be really nice. You know, just if you're starting a group and that group already exists, like, why not like join together for it um one of them finally gets responded and it's just kind of like a blowoff message of like oh we'll reach out once we're starting officially um after some you know light internet stocking that this friend of a friend did they saw that this individual who were running this group um they didn't have any events for months like about six months this official's on the spring club didn't have any any um any events for months but people had listed it on their LinkedIn being like,

I'm the executive director of December birding group chapter in our city. And it just gave off like a really weird vibe. So yeah, people just kind of got blown off. And now it's like this strange dynamic of there's the unofficial group. And there's this official group and the official group is not interested in connecting. My jaw is on the floor. no literally also the fact that I was like I hope it's about an aquarium and it wasn't but like close enough basically the aquarium of the sky with the fish of the sky which is what I call birds

this makes me want to ask is burning like a male dominated field I think historically yes a lot of white men I think if you think like who subscribes to Audubon magazine okay okay okay okay Of course, yeah. People who aren't men have always birded. But in recent years, there have been sort of this wave of like identity focused, not to do like historian, identity focused like birding groups to help make like safe spaces for folks who want to bird. There's also been an amazing wave of like more accessible birding groups. Like people who do birds sits for people who aren't as mobile or can't, you know, do a walk that's like, which is like amazing. Like I'm like I'm such a big supporter of like feminist bird clubs. But I'm also. So I love intercommunity drama. I love drama when it's like I would, I'm politically aligned with every single person in this thing. And yet everyone is acting poorly. I do love that. That is my favorite kind of drama because I love drama where there's no real clear villain.

It's just people being people where it's like I know that if push came to shove, we're all actually on the same side. Like I know that if things, if the apocalypse allegedly starts, like we're going to be mad maxing in the same car. but I'm still going to have beef with you because you're a person and I'm a person and we're different people. Absolutely. So I love that this unofficial feminist burden club is fighting with the official feminist burden club and also the official feminist burden club is like also not doing anything. It's just the name that people are putting on their LinkedIn. Also, is it impressive to have this on your LinkedIn? I'm like, what roles are you seeking?

that this is an impressive thing to have. Also, like, not to denigrate the work that goes into a birding group because right planning events takes a lot of work. Like, you are providing expertise, but specifically the title, executive director of like a local chapter of a birding group. I'm like, okay. We're getting a little too far here. But also, they're running a burden group does seem like work.

But this, the, this one's not doing anything. They don't have events for six months. So it's like, what are you executive directing? I think writing that LinkedIn update. And you know what? That's a lot of work. There are some real people who make LinkedIn their jobs. I've heard about them.

Ten lessons I learned from being the executive director of my local birthing group. Official feminist birding club of this metro area. I love that. I think that the beef should become even more pronounced, especially if they are dueling Instagram pages. like I think that the unofficial group should change their title to official so that people are even more confused. Like I want the stakes to be upped even further. I want anyone who goes to the city who is a feminist who's like I want to join a feminist burden group to Google and then immediately be informed of this beef.

Like I wanted to be so clear that something's going on here. I love that. I mean, also like what is the? official chapter posting on Instagram if they don't have any events like what is there to post about I guess

anyone can do that anyone can do that yeah I can go on Google images and get a photo of a cardinal and I bet it would be beautiful I bet it would be beautiful there was a cardinal in my backyard the other day and I was like hello friend

a male it was red a male feminist yes he was like ally i support you in your podcast that's exactly what he was saying to me wow um please manufacture more drama within these burden groups than get back to me um i think it's imperative for my mental health thank you so much please. Support for normal gossip comes from Airbnb. Lately I've been daydreaming about summer getaways and one place that's high on my list, Prince Edward Island. I would love to spend a long

weekend exploring the island's beaches, bike trails, and eating as many oysters and fresh seafood as possible. Our friends visit PEI regularly and they're constantly telling me and my husband that we need to visit. And while I'm off enjoying our little island getaway, instead of my place just sitting there empty, I could be earning a little extra money by hosting on Airbnb. It's a smart way to put my home to work and help cover the cost of the trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. next so when i was in college i had a group friends who really like to play board games and so one weekend we're in one of the guys apartment we'll call him eric and there's like five

or six of us mix of genders and kind of different levels of friends and we're playing katan and as background i had never played before i was never really that interested that style of game has never been that attractive to me. And, like, also, I had beef with the game risk growing up. So I just, like, never really appealed to me. Everyone was kind of helping me understand the rules, understand just, like, the basics of, like, hey, generally, like, this is what people would do. This is the general common knowledge that everyone here has, but you don't will help you out.

And I also note that this was a, like, custom Caton set that had been handmade by Eric's girlfriend, Jennifer. And so great, we're playing all this beautiful, like, handmade set that was, like, laser cut in the, you know, university wood shop or whatever. I don't know how to play or having a good time. I happen to win. It was mostly luck. I, like, had happened to go first. I happen to draw some victory point cards. Like, it just happened. Great. Everyone's in good spirits. come to find out that night Eric and Jennifer got in a little fight. Jennifer felt like Eric was helping me too much and like showing me preferential treatment and then like created this whole story about how like he like emotionally cheated on her with me, which was like the

farthest thing from the truth. But it went from just like a fun little game night like using the nice custom handmade like birthday gift or Christmas gift or whatever like. gift game set that it was, and then they broke up that night, and it was pretty much because of me. So, yeah, I can't think of the game, Catan, without thinking of that's that night. Listen, who among us has not been emotionally cheated on by their boyfriend at a casual, mixed gender board game night? With a laser-cut, handmade, settlers of Katan board game. Oh, man! That was a rye.

Saps saw my face at Settlers of Catan and immediately started laughing. I have nothing politically against board games. I am so board game people. Again, this is like the Mad Max situation. I know that most people who play board games were going to be in the same car when the apocalypse happened. But truly, there is nothing I hate more. Because I don't know any.

I don't even understand the rules of monopoly. like this is not my I played life and I'm okay at that but like the game I love spinning that wheel exactly I'll play a little twister but like there's nothing I hate more than being in a room of people who are like really into board games because if you're an adult and someone's playing a board game they're they're really into it there's no real there's no casual board game interest I hate when people explain the rules to me because I know I'm not going to understand them and I know that the people playing the game are going to get upset because I'm not understanding

the rules. And I'm like, I don't know how to tell you that there is no way I'm going to understand these rules. It has nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with the game. It is the way my brain works. Please just don't involve me in this. If I could be in a corner smoking weed and like being like

ooh, like doing a little, like if I could just be a cheerleader and not play, I would love that. But please don't involve me. And this is why. emotional cheating. No, I think that's so fair. I mean, something, a question that I had from the very beginning of this call is like,

how do you have beef with a board game, like having beef with risk? But it's like, it sounds like you, Rachel, have beef with all board games. Yes, yes, I do. This is a whole realm of things that I'm just like, the rules for this are very opaque and there's only so much room in my head. And I'm saving a lot of space for what's happening on Married at First Site, Denver. and I just don't really think I have space to learn how to play Settlers of Katon. And that's so wise.

I cannot believe they broke up, though. Really wild. I mean, it, I'm sure it was, I'm sure it was coming. I'm sure there were countless tense board game nights like before this one with, I'm sure, other wild allegations. I mean, I imagine they're just going to find like another board game boyfriend and girlfriend. What if this was just like their relationship was perfect up until this night? Wow. And that was, that was just it.

I guess that's the power of Caton. Again, it's like, I don't even, I know that that game involves building roads, I think. Like, you build the longest road. You know, I don't know. I know, neither of us know. We're like the two, yeah, I feel like, because when I'm also not a board game person or a card game person and whenever people play, I just always have opted out. And so now I know, I don't know how to play anything. And I just kind of like, well, then, okay, well, at this party, you'll just watch from afar.

But I do understand that when you are in that moment, though, like, I have done Mario Kart. I have been racing. I have thrown a controller on the occasion. Like, I understand that things get heated. But, oof, emotional cheating at the Caton. Emotional cheating at the handmade subtlars of Caton board game. Laser cut. Laser cut in the university woodcutting lab, the use of university resources for...

Crucial element to this story. Emotional cheating? I also love that this caller had never played before and then won. I love that. I mean, that's so you coded. That's so you going to Atlantic City for the first time and then playing the slots and then winning like $387 and being like, I'm out. while all of our co-workers who like like to gamble

are like working hard like at the table they're like putting a day in at the mines and I'm just walking in like I guess I should do this before I leave no that was really

that was that was a peak moment for me I think that's the real winning mindset like that's what Roaldol taught us in Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory you're right you're not going to win this factory if you I think. I'm like, recall, like, my book or, like, you're not going to win this factor if you buy

thousands of tickets and, like, game your way into the system, like Verruca Salt and all these rich kids. It's like, just Charlie with his four grandparents, like the rat king of grandparents, who share the pet, their legs all tinkled together. Sadd, did you just say rat king? Am I wrong? That's what they're doing there. I don't want to see those legs.

No, you're not wrong. And it's like when Charlie's grandfather just springs up out of bed, like, I'm like, I'm sorry. You could have been having a job this whole time. When he just extracts himself from the wrecking of grandparents. And it's like, bro. I know. All he needed to do was put on his LinkedIn that he was the executive director of his local feminist burden club. And he would have offers out the wazoo for content marketing.

positions. Correct. Correct. At the Willywaka chocolate factory. Correct. Non-union. Of course. The oompa-lumas were not unionized. Oh, no, it does seem like they were enslaved. We hate to see it. Well, are we ready for the next go? Yes. that made me giggle and I wanted to tell you about it. So when I was maybe six, I stuck into my older sibling's room and I took a goosebumps book and they saw me with it and they said, oh, you're too young for that. That's too scary for you. You're just a baby.

And I needed to prove my sibling wrong. I needed to prove that I was a big kid and I could handle it. So I sat at the kitchen table with a snack and I read this book. The snack was a hard-boiled egg. And I didn't think it was that scary. And my six-year-old brain attributed that to the eggs. And so for a lot of my childhood, I believed that if I was eating a hard-boiled egg, I could not be scared. And so I read so many goosebumps books, but I would not do it without a hard-boiled egg.

Okay, first, the giggle. at the end of my voice. I love it. I'm just like, I know that giggle where you're just like, you're just like, you're like,

I guess I'm pretty quirky. Gets him a little bit of a freak, like whatever Jughead's at on Riverdale. I'm a weirdo. Wow. Not the emotional support egg. At first I was like,

this person, like, where did you grow up? were like you like in like some impoverished like famine like peasant village like you your your treat of choice was like egg but then egg became source of power so yeah i'm really curious because bernie was six when this happened did you boil the egg yourself or was there just a supply of hard boiled eggs in your house like as someone who comes from an egg family. We had a little Tupperware, hard-boiled eggs, because my mom was really into

protein. Protein mom. And we had one of those, like, cool egg slicers. I don't know if you've seen them where, like, you could put the egg inside it. And then it was, like, many little guillotine that you would, like, pull over. And then your egg would become, like, many slices. And I thought that that activity was really fun. And then I was kind of obligated to, like, eat. the egg after I did the egg slicing activity, but they were eggs aplenty in the Ambler household. Did you like eat them cold? Yeah, I would salt and pepper them. I guess I'm like, wow, I shouldn't be projecting onto Bernie like an impoverished egg child. No, I'm like, the way you were like, what kind of impoverished child were you living where egg was your treat? And you're talking about how

guillotine the egg is one of your favorite activities. No, this is a real moment of like self-reflection, I guess. I did spend many, many afternoons eating a solo egg. But I didn't, I wasn't smart enough to actually like make something up that egg or have that egg symbolize anything. I was going to say, did you feel emotionally supported by the egg? No. Oh, well. I think I resented egg because it's like, what if instead of egg I could have Cheetos? Like, no, yeah, the better snack. Yeah, like an actual snack. I've learned so much about eggs. Do you have like a relationship to hard-boiled eggs? Do you eat them?

Pop, pop one in? Every morning, my dad eats the exact same breakfast, which is two pieces of turkey sausage, two slices of toast, and two hard-boiled eggs. And he, like, those eggs are boiling so long that half the water is out of the pan. Like, he is hard boiling those eggs. So for a really long time, I thought I didn't like hard-boiled eggs because I was like... Because he was eating geodes. I was like, this is not good. I don't like this.

But recently, as an adult, living by myself, I'm often just like, I need to eat something fast. Like, I just need to eat something. And so recently I've gotten into soft-boiled eggs where they are cooked for exactly 10 minutes and have like a little bit of like hardness to the yolk, but not like a whole. like it's still like a little bit jammy and so I'll usually eat like in the middle of the day just two soft boiled eggs and I'm like that'll keep me going through this next meeting so I do have a relationship I guess that's my emotional support egg yeah you are an egg girl I am I became an egg girl as an adult but I was really there are so many things that my parents cooked and fucked up ways where I was like I just thought I didn't like them eggs steak because they eat their steak well done so I was like

I don't like steak. And then I had a medium rare steak and I was like, oh! That's different. Cabbage. They love boiled cabbage, which I think is like a southern African-American thing, but they boiled the shit out of their cabbage.

So it was just like the, it's just, I can't. So I thought I didn't like cabbage for a long time. And now I'm like, a little raw cabbage is cute. All to say, I have emotional support egg. I understand emotional. I was judging emotional support egg. I'm not going to lie. And now I'm like, I get it.

When life is scary, an egg does comfort you. Put that on like some shiplap. Put it in my kitchen. When life is scary, eat an egg. You'll probably feel better. The protein will definitely make you feel better. Me like sobbing over my laptop, like reading the sign, popping one whole egg in my mouth because I don't have my slicer anymore.

Wait, do you? you just like eat the whole egg well now i don't really have a really me and egg have kind of broken up okay that's fair in part because of the economy um but also i think the slicer like if i that made the activity fun that made egg time like a delight and now egg time is so serious an adult no you're right yeah you're right you're right you're right that's really fair you and egg broke up because egg was caught emotionally cheating so true everything comes back everything comes back all roads lead back to emotional cheating

and we'll have to think about that for a while and I will be and I will be okay I think we have one more crazy what else could come for us I know okay so on Saturday night my friend Amy and I went to a concert and beforehand we went around the park of this taco place to go up and then to eat and as we're waiting in line i clocked this guy to my left and i'm like god he looks so familiar like i know him but how do i know him and i just could not place him like he didn't seem like a famous person like a celebrity but like i was thinking maybe i met him out like a house party or

something but like he was so familiar so anyway we go and sit down and we're at the table next to him and I'm telling me I'm like I have to find out how I know this guy like it's going to beat me up and she's like well he kind of looks like Pedro Pascal and I was like no it's not that so I turn around

I top my shoulder and I'm like hey I'm so sorry to interrupt you but like hey you look intensely familiar to me like I feel like I know you and he's like oh okay I was like what's your name he's like

and he's looking at me and it's like like he wasn't making any like effort to be like maybe it was this and I was like okay well I guess now I have to ask you like everything you've done over the last like three months to figure out where we've overlapped and this like silence like lingers and he's like but I'm also a porn star and my friend Amy started laughing because she thought he was fucking with me

and I was like wait and he's like but my name isn't like my idol's porn name and I was like, what is it? And he's like, I was like, oh my God, that's it! And I was like, I recognize him from porn. And it was so funny because I was like,

I told him, and this is true, like, I really don't watch porn. I don't really like it. Generally, I don't, it's not like for me. But he's in this, like, really, he's only in, like, female friendly porn that's, like, on this one website that's, like, made by women,

like, you know, everything's, like, written, produced by women. And so it's like a very, very different vibe. But anyway, I was like, oh, my God. I was like, can I hug you? We like hugged. But I was like, I just got to tell you, like, you are like the only after, adult after I've like ever looked up because I love like what sincere intimacy you bring to your teeth and stuff. He was like, oh my God.

He's like, as you can imagine, I don't get to get a lot of feedback about this. He's like, that means so much to me. And I was like, oh, my God, of course. Like, honestly, thank you. Like, I think the industry could, like, really benefit from, like, taking the page out of your book and, like, doing more things like that. Like, it's really nice. Um, and he just was, like, that is so touching. Like, thanks so much.

Um, drop the actor's name. I know. What were those bleeps? Come on. No. I'm like, looks like Pedro Pascal. Intimate scenes that the rest of the porn industry should take a page out of his book. drop the name.

We'll do our own investigation. And I will be doing my own investigation. I love literally this entire voice memo from top to bottom. I did get really excited when you were like, looks like Pedro Pascal. And I was like, are you going to see Pedro Pascal in this bar? And then it wasn't and I got really disappointed. But then I was brought right back up.

This is incredible. I love this interaction for everyone. I love that he got honest feedback. He should get good feedback for his work. I know, like, what do performance evaluations look like in the porn industry? Like, I want people to be getting, like, kudos. Like, hey, like, really loved, yeah, that shoulder thing that you did. Like, keep it up.

Shoulder? I don't know. I was like, what could you be graded on? I'm like, I don't know if I've ever noticed shoulders. I love this gossip. This was beautiful. I love that she was so committed to recognizing him that she kept the conversation going. Because if I went up to someone and was like, where do I know you from?

And they weren't giving me anything back. I would be like, okay, well, time for me to fuck off and die. Yep. And for her to be like, I'm going to go through the last three months of things I've done to get to where I know you from is like, I really, really respect your confidence and self-esteem because I don't have that. No, it's like you persisted and you got there. Like, I was stressed. I was stressed in the middle where I was like, oh, no, like, well, yeah.

But I, it's funny, I had like a, well, I didn't have, I've never had an experience like this. And now I'm like, I yearn to have an experience like this. But I was watching a play recently. And one of the actors, I was like, that person looks so familiar. And in this case, it's like this person is an actor. So I was like, what else have I seen them in? Like, I was kind of distracted throughout the entire play because she played this mayor.

And every time she came on stage, I was like, I know that woman. And then after we got out of the play, like, I looked on her IMDB. I was, like, looking. And I was like, I don't, like, I don't really know, like, would I have remembered her from these things. Like, maybe I saw her. And then I found this news story that was, like, guest star on Succession attacked by a pack of otters. It was her. It was her.

It was her, and I recognized her from their people, headshot, because I was like, that's, because when she was attacked by otters, initially, everyone sent that to me. And I was like, that's so crazy. Like, don't fuck with otters. Sabs, that story makes so much sense for you. Like, the fact that everyone sent you the story of this woman being attacked by otters. Also, otters scare me. Otters and seas. And also dolphins. All scary. All scary. All scary. Um. I'm assuming she was okay because she's yeah sorry she's okay it happened like a while ago she made it back to the stage she was great in this play I didn't love the play but I loved her performance she played a kooky mayor um and no marks visible from the otter attack that's beautiful I love that for her um where do I recognize this woman from she was attacked by otters yeah oh yeah that's it Classic.

I think that's where you should start the next time. You're like, where do I know this person from? You're like, hmm, they were attacked by emus. Did you have any kind of must-alid encounter recently? Oh, wait, what? Mustilid is like a group that the otters belong to. I believe. Please don't subject me and I'm wrong, but I believe that's true.

I mean, the thing is you could tell me literally anything and I would say that's true. But I send you photos of birds all the time, but I'm just like, what is this? What's this caterpillar I saw in the street? That was fun. I love to identify caterpillars. Any readers, send me caterpillars. I would love to identify them. Yeah, listeners, please, and saps, caterpillars.

I mean, they probably, we have so many listeners from so many different places. Like, you could get some Australian caterpillars, which I'm in, it's Australia. That shit's crazy. They're crazy down there. They're absolutely crazy. It's like the isolation has breathed. some wild things in the people and in the wild life. There's that caterpillar in Australia and New Zealand that, like, once it molds, because

every caterpillar, as it gets bigger, it doesn't just grow. It, like, molts its old skin. After each molt, it eats the rest of its body, but it doesn't eat its head, and then it puts its old head on top of its current head. And so by the time, it's like a really big caterpillar, it has this tapering tower of heads that just gets smaller and smaller. It's called the Gum Lea. skeletonizer becomes this beautiful brown moth kind of the most iconic well I actually

no there are probably even more iconic caterpillars you're like actually let me not speak out of turn there's another caterpillar that scientists just discovered from Hawaii and most caterpillars eat leaves but this one like basically preys on like dead insects and then it takes their body parts and sticks them onto its body so it's like covered in like the remnants of its dead prey very metal that's hardcore Caterpillars are doing crazy stuff, and more people should be respecting them. Did not know that. I was just like, these bitches turn into butterflies.

Like, that's crazy enough, if you think about it. I'm really trying to think of the logistics of eating every part of yourself but your head. Like, how does one do that? We'll have to have them on. Next subscriber episode. We will be hearing from. The skeletonizer? Yeah, the gum leaf skeletonizer.

That's also such a hardcore name. I know. Like, that sounds like a metal band. Yeah. Wow. What was the gossip about? Oh, the porn star. Yes.

Uh-huh. Ironic. I don't know how we started talking about caterpillars, but I really love the journey with on. Yeah, truly, truly. Yeah, no, actually, though, do send me, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure we have the unbleep version. I will find out who this adult, adult porn star is. Yeah, I need to know.

I would be looking for his work. Thank you for your service and, like, well and truly, both the caller in for alerting me to a new possible favorite and to this man for his work. I'm going to pass on the feedback and assume that you're good at your job and say, you deserve more kudos. you should get more kudos for that shoulder thing you're doing i salute you both yeah it's also funny to think about us trying to talk about this on a work on a work podcast yeah at this point i'm like anything goes here we did start off talking about how fuckable jesus was so it's only suitable that we're ending here with another kind of jesus i don't know lord and savior messiah sure a religion could be formed if a religion was to be formed if a religion was to be formed

about anyone, around anyone. I think I would say, yeah, sure, I'll see what he's What he's slinking. Yeah, I'll go to a sermon. You'll endorse him on LinkedIn. Shoulder. Executive Director of Feminist Birding Club. Saabs, thank you so much for joining

us this month. This was a delight. Thank you for having me on. Rachel, I had a blast. Yay. Thank you so much for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, that email is Normal Gossip at Defector.com, or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or friend of a friend at

support normalgossip.com. You can follow this show on Instagram and TikTok at At Normal Gossip. Normal Gossip is hosted by me, Rachel Hampton. Our lead producer is Sierra Spragley Ricks. Our subscriber episodes are produced by J. Tolviera. The co-creators and Dowager Queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Sujohn Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Defector's project editor is Justin Ellis. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's business guys.

Alex Sujong Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector's. Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company, and Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Please remember, you did not hear this from me.