Normal Gossip - Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Nadira Goffe comes with us to a shared rental house simmering with tension over roaches, cats, and a very special stew. Follow Nadira on Instagram here. Get your tickets for the Normal Gossip Live tour here!Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here!Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

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Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Welcome to episode six, y'all. If you didn't tune in last week or you're not following us on Instagram, I've got some incredibly exciting news. This fall, Sierra and I are going on tour for the first time. This September, we are bringing normal gossip to nine different cities.

We are stopping in New York, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Denver, Dallas, Austin, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Tickets went on sale to the public on Friday, May 9th. So that means if you are listening right now and live in any of those cities, you can go buy a ticket immediately at NormalGossipLive.com. This is Ciara and I's very first tour and we are so, so excited to bring this show on the road and we'll even be meeting some of y'all. There are exclusive VIP tickets for every show that include a meet and greet with the

both of us where I hope y'all will bring me some delicious little morsels of gossip. That is all the housekeeping for today's show. Now onto the gossip. Y'all, I love every episode of this season, but this one holds a special place in my heart because today's guest is none other than Slate staff writer Nadira Gough. Nadira is truly one of my absolute favorite people to record with. And I think by the end of this episode, y'all will definitely understand why. Some of y'all who are paid subscribers to the show have already heard me and Nadira

acting a damn fool. If you're not subscribed as a friend of a friend or a friend, you are missing out not just on Nadira, but on some exclusive listener-submitted gossip. If you want to sign up, go to defector.com slash products slash normal gossip. Okay, that is for real all the housekeeping. Without further ado, Nadira, hello! Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me.

I am so excited to be here. I am really so thrilled. Our subscribers have had the absolute pleasure of meeting you before the whole audience does. But for those of y'all who have not had the pleasure of hearing Nadira, you're in for a beautiful ride. Oh, God, I hope so. Before we get into the gossip, I would love to know what your relationship to gossip is. I'm someone who people just like to tell things to, which makes me feel very powerful. So I think it's a net good for society.

Me feeling powerful is a net good for society. I agree. I agree. You do have a very like, I trust your face, you know? I look at you and I'm like, yes, I trust her. I said a few days ago to one of my friends that I think I have a 90s face. Oh, I agree. No, I agree.

I could see you in living single. Which I think is why no one wants to date me now, but it's fine. Girl, that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the fact that men are in a worse state than they have ever been. Do you want to date a man right now? Oh, God.

Yeah, exactly. There you go. There you go. There you go. It's called living single for a reason, Nadira. In a 90s kind of world, I'm glad I got my girls. (*Nadira laughs*) Wow. Wow. You're really pulling it all out for this. I feel the red carpet has been rolled out. Um, a little birdie told me, you've got some gossip for me. Well, yes. Okay, see what had happened was.

Ooh, I love a story that starts with, well, what had happened was... I've been lying to my mom for over a decade. Now you outing yourself on the podcast. Look, and maybe my mom will listen to this and she'll be like, baby, I've always known, you know? But. That is very likely.

It is very likely. Nicole is very perceptive. However, my mom threw me a 16th birthday party. And it was a surprise birthday party. But the surprise never actually happened. It was ruined. It was spoiled. And I told myself that I would take it to the grave.

Oh my God. But it, well, okay. So basically what happened is it all started with my mom being like, hey, do you want to party for your 16th birthday? And me being like, oh, could do. That would be fun. That would be fine.

And she's like, well, if you did, what would you do? Let's say you had a bowling party. Let's say you did whatever. Who would you invite? That was her very smart way of getting an invitation list in terms of a hypothetical while I was a 16, well, 15 yearyear-old, then just so busy with other things that I didn't even think about the fact that she was actually asking me for an invitation list

to a hypothetical party, right? So maybe I should have been perceptive enough to know what she was doing, but... No, you were 15. You had more important things going on. Exactly. Things were happening. Puberty. The Disney Channel was on. Right. I wasn't worried about my mom being like,

well, if you had a party, who would you invite? No, exactly. You're like, well, obviously, I've already thought about this. Why wasn't worried about my mom being like, well, if you had a party, who would you invite? No, exactly. You're like, well, obviously, I've already thought about this. Why don't you know this already, Nicole? Exactly. So I'm like, all right, so boom.

I would invite so and so and so and so and so and so. Sounds great. Months go by. I don't hear anything about a party. I totally forget. I'm at, it was either Thanksgiving or Christmas with my family. And my family is sitting at this big table and we're all talking about these upcoming parties and all of this stuff and outfits,

like what we're gonna wear to so-and-so and such-and-such. And my aunt looks at me and goes, "'What are you wearing to your party?' And everyone goes quiet. And I look at her like, what? And my mom visibly kicks her underneath the table so hard that it is etched into my brain. Like, whatever subtlety was required in that moment.

I can picture this so clearly. And what is so funny about this is that this could 100% have been papered over so easily. So easily. If you just said, oh, I assumed you were having a party because you're turning 16, and that's a big age, you would have been like, oh, yeah, you're right. Right. But instead, my mom's choice was to kick her sister underneath the table in such a fashion that it was, you couldn't ignore it if you wanted to. The thing is, that's also what I would do to my siblings.

So I see everyone's side here. Yes. Yes. So I'm like, okay, I'm having a surprise birthday party. And obviously... I now have to keep this secret for months because my birthday's in May, and this was either fall or Christmas time. Wow, so your mother started planning really early.

Oh yes. I keep the secret for months. And of course on my birthday, my mom's like, let's choose a new outfit. We'll go to dinner, you can get your hair done. I'm like, okay, sounds great. We show up to this random ass location in Northern Liberties, which at,

over 10 years ago guys, was not the area that it is now. It was very much empty lots and warehouses. It was not the gentrified area full of bars and things that the Northern Liberty's neighborhood of Philadelphia is today. Yeah, Nadir is a Philly girl, in case you somehow missed that. Somehow we went.

We went in a whole minute. You guys, I can be not insufferable, you know? Like, it's fine. I'm missed that. Somehow we went, we went in a whole minute. You guys, I can be not insufferable, you know? Like it's fine, it's fine. I'm from Philadelphia. I'm not crazy about it whatsoever. It's cool. So yeah, so basically the end of the story is we show up at this random location

and I'm like, how would you explain this as being a place for dinner or something? And I don't remember what my mom said. I think she said something about like, we have to stop here for a second or something like that. And I'm like, OK. And so we walk into this place. But the whole time, I'm thinking, how am I going to feign surprise since I know what's coming?

Oh, I believe in you. And obviously, as soon as we walk in, all of my friends and family and family friends are there. And they yell, surprise! And there's like phone cameras out. And everyone's videotaping me. And they're all singing. And I black out.

I'm like, I don't know what happened. And my friends later are like, this is maybe a year later. They're like, do you remember what you did for your birthday when we were singing to you? And I was like, no. And they were like, you started dancing and rocking back and forth and singing along. Dear Lord.

Not you singing Happy birthday to yourself. 16 year old me did not know how to lock that shit down. I've since been a theater kid. Well, I was always a theater kid, maybe not a good one, but I've become a better one. Anyway, long story short, I have always wanted a surprise party, which is why my mom wanted to throw me one, and I still to this day have not had one.

I've never actually had a surprise party. So if someone wants to throw me one, and I still to this day have not had one. Never actually had a surprise party. So if someone wants to throw me a surprise party and not ruin it, that would be great. Also, Mom, I'm sorry and I love you. Oh. Ha ha ha. Aw, I both hope your mom is listening and I hope your mom isn't listening.

Same. I will be sending this to her because she is my number one fan. Hello, mom. Hi, mom. But, you know, yeah, just sorry. Thank you. That was beautiful gossip.

I love self-gossip. I love gossip that might spark some discourse in your own life. Yeah. I was thinking maybe the story itself is boring if you weren't there, but the real gossip is maybe what happens in my text conversations with my mom after this episode ends. So I'll keep you updated.

Keep us updated and I will let the listeners know how Nicole reacts to this. Thank you. In the meantime, I have a story for you. I have never been more ready. I'm shaking with excitement. Perfect. Let's go.

Support for normal gossip comes from Airbnb. It's been a while since I've taken a proper break and gotten out of town. So lately I've been daydreaming about a trip to Quebec City. I mean, we've got cobblestone streets and cozy cafes and all that gorgeous French architecture. Yes, please. And for those like me who are planning or even daydreaming about a trip, I would recommend hosting on Airbnb. While you're off exploring places like Old Quebec or eating your Wheaten

poutine, your place back home could be earning you some extra travel money. Hosting is practical, flexible, and honestly kind of a no-brainer if you're going to be away. Got a trip coming up? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Okay, so today, our friend of a friend is Gemma. Gemma is 18 and she has just moved out of her parents' house and into a shared apartment in a trendy neighborhood in an expensive East Coast city. We know some things about that. Yes, we do, unfortunately. HEHEHEHE. This isn't just Gemma's first time living on her own.

Gemma grew up in a small town in the Midwest, so this is also Gemma's first time living in a big city. For 18, that's a lot. I know. Have you ever made a move like this, where the stakes feel really, really high? I like to think of myself as someone who is risk-averse. Or, in other words, a little bitch. Have you ever made a move like this where the stakes feel really, really high? I like to think of myself as someone who is risk averse,

or in other words, a little bitch. But with that being said, I did move to New York. I mean, I wasn't 18, but I moved to New York without having secured a job officially, officially, officially. I was on final rounds of interviews, it felt like. So it kind of seemed like I was getting the job. But technically, I moved to New York without a job.

Post-pandemic, which does feel like a wild thing to do. Now, mind you, I did move on a Sunday, have my final interview on a Monday, and then secure the job on that Tuesday. But... (*CLICKING*) It wasn't promised. It wasn't promised. I mean, I like to think it was, but I understand. Thank you. Thank you.

Jemma is lucky to have, like, supportive parents who can send her $60 for groceries on occasion and keep her on their phone plan. Not a small thing. But they're not the kind of parents who are going to be paying her rent. Right. Right, right. Luckily, Gemma has a job. She's waiting tables at a restaurant.

And even luckier, Gemma managed to find a housing deal through a friend from high school. So what small town high school friends have housing deals on major East Coast cities? Well, Ruth is two years older than Gemma. She's kind of witchy. She sold love spells in high school, and Gemma had heard about the spells

working for at least two different people. So she got that Etsy money and the Etsy witchy street cred. Okay. Okay. Exactly. And a few months back, Ruth had posted about a room opening up in her apartment on Instagram. I see. Okay. Here's where our friend of a friend arguably makes her first mistake, because Jemma agrees to take the room without ever seeing it in person.

Oh, no. Jemma. Do you think this is a good idea? Our sweet summer child. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I'm cringing already. My toes are curling, not in a good way. I don't, I'm really, I don't like gross things.

I don't like pests. I don't like dysfunction, especially in the home. And I'm just terrified of what awaits Gemma when she shows up to this apartment that a witch lives in without seeing it first. But I'm also intrigued, so please tell me. Well, I gotta say, it works out relatively okay for Gemma. Like, her room is pretty cute.

It's definitely small, but it's in a cool little attic space that gets, like, really incredible planted light. The rest of the apartment is... Well, it's an apartment with four walls that keep out rain and snow. We love shelter. Shout out to shelter. with four walls that keep out rain and snow. We love shelter. Shout out to shelter.

But the kitchen has clearly never been updated. The windows in the kitchen are tiny and covered in grime, so no natural light gets in. Oh, God. All the furniture in the living room is clearly just like what's been left over from previous tenants. There are currently four tenants, Gemma and Ruth, but there's only one bathroom and the shower is tiny. No, wait, sorry. Sorry. So did Gemma know about these other people? Are they women?

Are they, what's going on? Who lives here? How are you feeling? I'm scared. I'm terrified. I, first of all, who lives here? We don't know who lives here. Second of all, does my good sis only work in love spells or are other spells being cast? Has a spell been cast? Does she need to burn some sage before she moves in?

I'm scared. I'm scared for Gemma. These are all incredible questions. Okay. Which makes me even more terrified. I will say the apartment saving grace is that it's really clear that someone has tried to make it a home. It has that like cozy kind of overstuffed vibe.

There's a lot of like fabric wall hangings and floor pillows. It always smells like sandalwood incense. Every available surface has a plant on it. Okay, we love that. Okay, I'm sorry. This is great. More of this, please. The other two tenants besides Jemma and Ruth, are a couple. Darcy and Duncan. Oh, I, oh, the alliteration usually is cute, but considering that I'm coming from a place of fear, I don't know how I feel about it right now. Darcy and Duncan are also witchy.

Oh, God. Not a coven. Well, Ruth gives, like, practical magic witchy. Yeah. Darcy and Duncan give, like, Burning Man witchy. They're, like, evangelists for composting. They have a struggling herb garden growing in a window sill. Aluminum hasn't touched their armpits in at least a decade. They talk about their gut health a lot.

Okay, well, so do I. Okay, not too... I got IVS, so not too much of the gut health now. Do you have any, like, witchy woo-woo tendencies? Oh, I certainly do. And I, well, I hope my mother doesn't mind me saying this. We can fact check that later. But my mother practices an ancient African religion, a sort of sect of the Yoruba religion.

So we've definitely, I feel a little witchy. She feels a little witchy. We got our witchy time on from time to time, love a crystal, love some sage, love some talking to the ancestors, love that. But I have questions. Also, how did you guys meet? Was it like, was it a witchy meetup?

If so, what did you do at said witchy meetup? Nidir, you have so many incredible questions. These are questions that my good sis Jemma should have asked before she moved in, but we're too, it's too late now. It is too late. You're right. One last thing to know about this apartment. On the floor that's street level,

there's like a little plant shop. Okay, we love that. That's kind of like rom-com setting. Yeah. At first, this works out relatively okay for Jemma. In fact, she's having a phenomenal time. She's working a ton, so she's rarely home. Plus everyone at the restaurant she's waiting tables at is like really, really cool.

She joins a running club, which I know neither one of us would ever do. As we've established, we do not run. Gemma's new enough to town that, like, every guy she passes on the street is hotter than the one before. You know that feeling when you move to a really big city and you're like, I didn't know they made them like this. Yes. Unfortunately, yes. So everything's coming up, Gemma. Everything except for the stew.

Rachel, the what? Are you familiar with the concept of perpetual stew? God, yes. Yes, yes, I am. It's a health hazard in a pot. But yes, I am. It's a health hazard in a pot, but yes, I am. Please say more. Right, right, right, right, right. So according to Wikipedia, perpetual stew is also known as forever soup, hunter's pot, or hunter's stew. Perpetual stew is, quote, a pot into which food stuffs are placed and cooked continuously. The pot is never or rarely emptied all the way and ingredients and liquid are replenished as

necessary. Such food can continue cooking for decades or longer if properly maintained. You know you're in bad territory when the word stuffs plural is involved. Not specific, just food stuffs. Just food stuffs. Exactly. Exactly. Duncan and Darcy's stew has been going for at least a year. Uh huh. Okay. I read about one in Thailand that's been going on for over 45 years. And last year a woman went viral for keeping a perpetual stew going for two months in Prospect Park. Yes, that I remember. And it scared me. Would you help yourself to some perpetual stew? It sounds like no.

No, I really don't be trusting people like that. I maybe it's trust issues. Maybe it's my IBS, but I certainly... Maybe it's Maybelline. Maybe it's Maybelline, but I certainly would not. However, the little devil inside of me really wants someone else to try and be like, so, how does it taste? How do you feel? Yeah, anybody who knows me knows that I have

the gastrointestinal constitution of one of those kids who live in a bubble, so I'm not risking it. And neither is Gemma, no matter how many times Duncan and Darcy try to convince her that it's safe. Duncan and Darcy are obsessed with the stew. Like, they eat at least one helping of stew a day, sometimes up to three. Gemma has caught them spoon feeding each other from the pot of stew. No! I don't like this.

Also, okay, we may not know the answer to this question, but if they're using a gas stove, how high is their gas bill? Because doesn't that thing have to be boiling all the time for it to maintain FDA regulations? Pree RFK, yes. Yes, yes. One more thing is that Duncan and Darcy

refer to the stew as Stewie, and they refer to themselves as Stewy's parents. Parents? No! No! Oh, God, this is so bad. I don't know why, but it's just giving me such bad vibes. It's just like if they do this, what else do they do, you know? Gemma will openly admit that sometimes the stew smells

pretty good, but then other times it smells like something low-key died in it. The stew is always just simmering away while Gemma is trying to cook. And Duncan and Darcy tend to leave all the trimmings from the stew ingredients just on the counter. So Jim is always throwing away, like, potato and carrot peels. That's annoying. If you're going to always be taking up a burner

in this small apartment, where we probably don't have a lot of counter space to begin with, then please compost your shit. Because I know they compost. They love composting. So throw that in. Don't you love composting enough to do it? I feel as though maybe you should.

Sometimes Duncan and Darcy will text the roommate group chat, like whoever's home, can you turn down the stew? I guess. Would you be okay babysitting your housemate's stew? Just get a dog. What is happening? Get a real pet. Get a real pet.

What is happening? At least a dog will cuddle me back. This, I don't want this stew. But with that being said, the thing I really don't want is to hear this couple complaining about a ruined stew, because that feels like a months-long drama or a fire starting. So I would, if they asked me to turn down the stew, I would.

But I would do it unhappily. That's also how I operate. I'm like, yes, I would do it, but I'll pout the whole time. Yep. Jemma's in her room one night when she hears a scream. Oh, no. Jemma runs down the stairs and finds Ruth, her witchy high school classmate standing in the kitchen.

Jemma's like, dude, what the fuck? I thought you were getting murdered. Oh, so it was like a blood curdling scream. Like, someone got stabbed. I'm locked in. And Ruth sort of shudders and then points to the corner of the kitchen, where Gemma sees a dozen little shiny bodies scattering across the floor.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, okay. Nicole, raise no bitch. OK, OK. Nicole ain't raised no bitch. Gemma screams just like that. This is testing me, but I will prove stronger. OK, continue on. Ruth's like, I know it's so gross. The two go on a roach killing spree

before wiping everything in the kitchen down. They store like the bunches of unused herbs on the cutting board in plastic bags. This was not being done before? Okay. And then they see it. See what? A roach swimming in the perpetual stew. Oh, no. This stew is your roommate's child.

This is Stewie, their baby, and it is also currently providing a Viking funeral for a roach. What do you do? A Viking funeral is diabolical. Um, I, what do I do? What do I do? First of all, I evict myself from the apartment. I leave.

I call the landlord and say, evict me. I call my mother, say I need help. I call the landlord and say, I'm sorry, you must kick me out. And then, I don't know, I walk the streets. I have no idea. Wailing. And I don't know, I walk the streets. I have no idea. Whaling. I famously have a slight phobia, a rational fear of insects. And I am someone who lives in Brooklyn.

And so I have also had to go to war with roaches. And my war is well documented to all of my family members and my friends because I've sent them videos, photos, et cetera. I have now become somewhat of a tyrant, but I live alone. So I'm allowed to do that. But a cleanliness tyrant, because I really, really, really, my day, my week perhaps is ruined any time I see a roach.

So I would move. I would move. And if I couldn't move, I would move. And if I couldn't move, I would pray. And then I would get raid and I would then still move. Um, what I would do about the stew, you know, not my stewie, not my child. Not my problem. Not my monkey. Exactly, I would text them and be like, hey guys, don't mean to ruin your entire lives, but there is a roach in Stewie.

And I don't think then that it is healthy or safe to eat. And you might have to, well, I wouldn't say you might have to start over, because please don't fucking start over with this too. But I would just say, no, babes, I think it's time to throw this out. But I don't think I would throw it out for them at this point in time.

That's really smart. Um, Jemma and Ruth are like, fuck it. I'm done. And they toss Stewie away. I guess done. And they tossed the roach away. I guess that's fair. Is the assumption that the roaches came because of the perpetual stew? The perpetual stew, the stuff on the counter that goes into the perpetual stew. Okay.

In which case, if I felt like it wasn't just the things on the counter, but it was also the perpetual stew that was inviting the pests in, I would yeet that shit out the window so fast, you wouldn't even be able to blink. Half a, half a milisecond, half a nano millisecond. And it's gone. And it's gone to the wind. Yeah. So they, they gone with the wind. The stew. It goes with the wind. And Ruth sages the kitchen just to be extra safe.

I trust Ruth. That's a good idea. What are you saying in the roommate group chat after this? I'm saying your stew has caused unto us a devilish hoard, a devilish hoard. Of pestilence. Of pestilence, of demons, of daemons even. And I had to excise our property in order to keep us safe. And by that I mean I threw your shit out the window

and I'm not sorry about it. Come at me, bro. Real, real. Gemma and Ruth, they craft a statement together. That Gemma sent. Okay, that's smart. So, first, Gemma texts a photo of the cockroach carcasses to the chat, just to be like, we're not making anything up. Here's the evidence.

Yeah, absolutely. And then to be like, we're not making anything up. Here's the evidence. Yeah, absolutely. And then she's like, hey guys, we seem to have a pest problem. Ruth and I killed as many as possible, but I think we should all be on high alert going forward. And then she's like, we stored everything in the fridge and wiped everything down,

but unfortunately, the stew had to go. Before finally being like, and let's all be extra careful with our food storage from now on. Do you think this is an adequate response? Yeah, that's a lot nicer than I've, well, it depends on what state of shock and fear and adrenaline I was in. But yes, that seems like a good response.

They explained why they did what they did. They showed proof like I have been doing to my family and friends with my broach photos. And I think you could argue with it, but you shouldn't. Ruth, who is standing right next to Jemma as she sends this text, waits an appropriate amount of time before responding, agreed.

Right. Duncan sends a thumbs up. Darcy just doesn't respond. Darcy. And two days later, the stew is reborn, along with the piles of carrot and potato peels on the counter. The new stew is referred to as Tooie.

So these are fans of Little Shop of Horrors. And you know what? That I can respect. However, this behavior? I would throw it all away again and then say, hey, guys, we explained this. But unless you want to be friends with the cockroaches. I th- that we can't do this. Three days after Tooey's resurrection, the cockroaches also return.

Of course. Jemma continues to send texts that start with, hey, guys, but nothing changes. After a few weeks of this, Jemma is like, I'm tired of this. I'm just gonna take things into my own hands. She's tired of turning on the kitchen light to see roaches scattering.

She's tired of the smell of vegetables composting in the open air. She's tired of the kitchen being too scary to cook in. So on one of her rare free days, Gemma spends four hours cleaning the kitchen from top to bottom, throwing away all the forgotten heads of lettuce and shriveled up old mushrooms. She plugs any holes she can find with steel wool and spray foam.

And then finally, she calls in the big guns. She spends a third of her savings and calls in pest control. Oh, honey, no. No. So you wouldn't do this? Here's where we went wrong in this section of our story. Letting Tooie... get to be weeks old,

instead of just nipping that in the bud right away, throwing Tooie out immediately, I think that was maybe a mistake. Because I feel like if you cut it off right at the start, then that would have maybe, every time they tried to bring it back, if you just kept throwing it out, then I think they maybe would have gotten the hint, right? Yeah.

Pest control, have they ever controlled pests? You know? In New York, at least. No, I know, I know. I had mice in an apartment and I, useless. You know, in New York at least. No, I know, I know. I had mice in an apartment and I, useless. Useless. Expensive and useless.

I'm all for gainful employment, but y'all have run amok on me a few too many times. It really, yeah, no, I see, yeah, same, same. But with that being said, I do understand if you're dealing with an infestation of that. Yeah, that nature. First, talk to the landlord, you know, see what, because usually there's a sort of exterminator situation

going on that they already have. But I understand wanting to call in outside help. I just, first of all, one third of your savings alone when you live in an apartment with three other people for a total, you should not be the only one paying for that. And two, I'm going to be very sad when this inevitably does not work because extermination is a myth.

Yeah, the exterminator lays down some, like, special gel shit that apparently deters cockroaches, and the pest control guy tells Jemma that the special gel needs to be left on for about 12 hours before being cleaned up. Jemma's like, okay, cool, easy. She texts the group chat, like, I paid for an exterminator for the roaches, please avoid the kitchen for the next 12 hours, And she explains everything about the special gel. Ruth responds immediately, like,

"'OMG, thank you so much.'" And then Venmo's Gemma, $50. SHANNON Because Ruth, the real one. Once Ruth pulled out the sage, I was like, oh, that's a good roommate. TINA We love Ruth in this house. Once again, Duncan thumbs up. SHANNON Okay.

TINA Once again, Darcy doesn't respond. Aren't they in a relationship? They are, they are. They're a couple. Okay, okay. Which of these responses would piss you off more? Duncan's, because not to be come get your wife, but Darcy at this point, we know she's not happy with the situation she's lost cause.

But Duncan, I feel like he could maybe help out. You and Jemma are on the exact same page. The thumbs up just really gets under Jemma's skin. She is like enraged and exhausted from also cleaning all day. So she decides to take a nap. You know that like angry nap? Yes.

Yes. She passes out on the couch. And when she wakes up about two hours later, she can hear music coming from the kitchen along with the sounds of Darcy singing. Jemma can also smell the unmistakable smell of peppermint Dr. Bronner's castile soap. Okay. See, here's why I have another question.

This whole time, did they not see each other in this apartment? Because I also would have been talking to her in person, like, hey, sis, what's wrong with you? We have an issue. We should be a united front against the enemy. The roaches. And yet here you are, being a traitor united front against the enemy. The roaches. And yet here you are being a traitor in the night. Yes, the roaches. Correct.

So I feel like we would have been having this in-person dialogue this whole time. When it gets to this point, if I turn around and see Miss Peppermint Dr. Bronner's chopping vegetables to make a Stewie the Third. I might resort to violence. I might resort to physical violence.

I do think perhaps I'm starting to commit felonies. Yeah, so Jemma goes into the kitchen and she finds Darcy mopping the kitchen floor. There was all this weird stuff all over the floor, Darcy says. I'm almost done cleaning it up. Does she not read? What is the issue?

Nadir, are you a morning person? I can be from time. I'm... Let me rephrase this. It is in my nature to be a creature of the night, a night owl, if you will, but I do prefer my days when they start earlier and end earlier, so I have trained myself to be a morning person. Yeah, I'm not a morning person.

I think you know this about me. Mm-hmm. I do not wake up on the right side of the bed ever. Never have, once in my life. I need at least an hour after waking up before I can even begin to think of speaking to someone else. Jemma is the same way. And our girl has just woken up from a nap. So she can be forgiven for not being cool,

calm, collected in this moment. She's like, Darcy, what the fuck? Did you not read the group chat? And Darcy's like, oh, I'm on a phone detox right now. And so then Jim explains about the roaches and the pest control and Darcy is like, oh, well, I'm sure a few hours is enough time for it to start working.

And then Darcy's like, besides having so many chemicals around, probably isn't good for us either. The chemical is you. Ha! What's not clicking? I don't understand. Do you think a few hours is enough time for the special gel to have worked? The man with the fake job said 12. Ha!

So it must be 12. Yeah, the roaches return. The roaches do return, and Gemma just gives up on eating at home. And she starts eating all of her meals at the restaurant, which she is spending a lot of time there. So she just starts spending more time there. But she also starts looking for a new room.

OK, well, that's, yeah, she maybe should have done that a while ago. Like I said, I would have been outy. But she spent a third of her savings on pest control and only Ruth had paid her back, so it's very slow going. At what point do I turn into the cast of Set It Off? Well, around this time, a new resident is added to the apartment. Huge news! Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times bestselling book of

beautiful essays about gossip. It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, Mostly True Notes on Gossip, and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun and not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audio book,

which Kelsey narrates. You can buy wherever you buy your books. You can also go to kelsemckenniebook.com to see all retailers. Support for Normal Gossip comes from Airbnb. It's been a while since I've taken a proper break and gotten out of town, so lately I've been daydreaming about a trip to Quebec City. I mean, we've got cobblestone streets and cozy cafes and all that gorgeous French architecture. Yes, please.

And for those like me who are planning or even daydreaming about a trip, I would recommend hosting on Airbnb. While you're off exploring places like Old Quebec or eating your Wheaton poutine, your place back home could be earning you some extra travel money. Hosting is practical, flexible, and honestly kind of a no-brainer if you're going to be away. Got a trip coming up? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. One day Jemma comes home from a shift at the restaurant, and she's greeted at the door by maybe the cutest kitten

she's ever seen in her entire life. And Jemma, she's just a girl. So at first, she's like, oh my god! But then she's like, oh my god, whose fucking cat is this? Whose cat is this? Well, just then, Darcy comes in from the kitchen. And Darcy's like, oh, you've met my familiar. When I said, get a dog, Well, just then Darcy comes in from the kitchen and Darcy was like, oh, you've met my familiar.

When I said get a dog. You told them to do this. I didn't mean, I didn't mean after the mayhem with the stew. I meant instead of the stew. You cannot have a Stewie the fifth and... Kite laughs Uh... Uh...

Cat named Merlin. Kite laughs This is not allowed. Well, Duncan and Darcy had decided that the vibes were off in the house and that it was because of a surplus of feminine energy. It is because of them! Kite laughs That's the cat, who is indeed a boy.

What do you do? What do I do about Merlin? I bang on Duncan and Darcy's door. I'm like, come out right now. Or else, again, I'm committing felonies. Once they get outside, I'm like, okay, listen, you already have not taken care of this apartment enough to the point where I have wasted

a third of my savings on an exterminator who did nothing, rarely, not because of his own fault this time, but because of you. And now you're telling me that you also think you can take care of a cat. And I don't think that cats really catch bugs like this. Do they? They do.

They're actually really good hunters. I saw my cat eat a silverfish once. Oh, oh, oh. I know. I know. I regret asking. Okay. So here's what I say.

I say, I give you guys a week. If Merlin, I've named the cat. so here's what I say. I say I give you guys a week. If Merlin, I've named the cat. Merlin's his name now. If Merlin can take care of our roach problem, then that's fine. Y'all still owe me money though. But if not, then I'm taking the cat. And I'm leaving.

And I'm leaving. Yeah, yeah. Jemma starts searching even harder for new housing. And things settle into sort of an uneasy stasis. The cat, who we've named Merlin, is a very skilled hunter and does spend his evenings killing roaches. Good! Shout out to Merlin.

Shout out to Merlin. Unfortunately, Merlin is not very skilled at using his litter box. Oh, Jesus Christ. And he shits everywhere but his litter box. Kitchen, shit. Couch, shit. Shower, shit. Stairway, shit. Every single rug in the whole apartment. Shit.

At this point, can you even talk to this couple? I would leave like a thief in the night. Yeah. I would leave like a thief in the night. Sorry, Ruth. Jemma starts keeping her door closed at all times. Even Ruth, who was originally thrilled with Merlin in the beginning, starts to make snippy little comments in the group chat.

Like, Darcy and Duncan weren't wrong that the vibes are bad. The constant bubbling of the stew on the stove starts to feel ominous. Gemma's bitching to her coworkers one day and one of them is like, have you tried talking to them? And Gemma's like, well, yeah, kind of. Well, yeah, kind of.

Did I not say this 20 minutes ago? Don't y'all live together? Gemma's 18, she, kind of. Well, yeah, kind of. Did I not say this 20 minutes ago? Don't y'all live together? Gemma's 18, she's a child. I know, and I have been thinking about that too, but I just feel as though, I'm sorry Gemma, my girl, if you're old enough to move out of your hometown and to live on your own in the big city, then you're old enough to have an adult conversation

with your roommates. You're also old enough to beat a bitch's ass. And I'm gonna need you to do those things, one after the other. Yeah, Jim's coworker is like, babe, you gotta talk to them at least once, like face to face. Yeah.

It seems like you think this is good advice. I think this should have happened four scorns seven years ago. Yeah, Jim is like, well, I've tried doing everything else, so I guess I can't just talk to them. And all of her housing leads keep falling through. So one day after a shift, she like bucks up her courage to finally confront Darcy and Duncan about everything.

The roaches that even Merlin can't keep up with, the stew and the piles of compostable shit that it creates, Merlin's literal shit. (*laughs*) Gemma's, like, pumping herself up as she walks up the stairs. But as she gets closer to the front door of the apartment, she can hear music playing and people laughing. And when she enters the apartment, it smells like weed and incense smoke. There are five

or six women in flowing linen clothes lounging around the living room. It's very clear that Darcy has company. What's also clear is that Darcy is in a very good mood. She's like, Jemma, come and have a drink. Do you have a drink? No, I do not have a drink of the witch's brew. I also am wondering, did Darcy finally give in to modern medicine and start taking some SSRIs? You know, what's, what's... Because maybe this is a good thing.

Jemma's like, I can't lie, I'm a little bit charmed. She's like, this is good, actually. We'll have a good night. We'll build the friendship. And that will help me talk to Darcy when the time is right. No, Jemma, you have work to do, baby. You got to lock in. In fact, round them all up, sit them in a line on the couch, and say, I have a presentation for you.

And it is called The Apartment That Has Now Become Dante's 15th Circle of Hell. Get in line and get it done. Jemma's like, this is the most non-threatening way for me to get my peace back while avoiding as much conflict as possible. Unfortunately, it is time to be threatening, but continue. So Jemma takes a few hits off the gravity bong.

She, like, sinks into the springs of the old couch. She's petting Merlin, who continues to be cute, even though he shits everywhere. Many such places. And then, Gemma notices the French doors to the balcony are open. It's like a beautiful night with a gorgeous full moon. And the balcony is covered with objects

of, like, various shapes and sizes that are glimmering in the moonlight. So crystals, we got some crystal time and charging. Okay. Jemma's like, what's going on out there? And Darcy's friend is like, we're charging our crystals in the moonlight. Jemma turns back to the crystals

and starts, like, kind of, like, really looking at them. And she realizes that some of them are sort of phallic and a lot of them are more like egg-shaped and That's when the girls like we're planning on inserting them at midnight to align our chakras for the full beaver moon Which is a real thing by the the way. So where in Bushwick were they? The girl starts to explain to Gemma about like the passages of energy, but Gemma just excuses herself and flees to her room. She's like, I don't want to yuck anyone's yum,

but I also don't really know how to feel about people charging their energy dildos in a shared public space. That is unusual and perhaps unkind to the people that you live with. But I'm so much cooler with that than I am with all of the other things that have taken place in this apartment thus far, because I'm not putting them in my body.

You can do whatever you want. I can power wash this balcony later. I don't care. The rest being an ongoing problem. You know, okay, so what if the Beaver Moon, is it monthly? Actually, how often? It's once a year,

and I believe it's the full moon that happens in November. Okay, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. I would retreat back to my room though. Yeah, yeah. We're almost at the end of our story. How are you feeling?

I'm feeling, I'm feeling like we're losing. I'm feeling like the stew is still there, the roaches are still there, Merlin's shit is still there, and Gemma is also still there. And that, to me, makes me feel sad. Diva down, the city girls are not up right now. However, I believe that Gemma can turn it around. I believe that she can excuse herself from the situation.

I also believe that Karma will take care of those who need taking care of. The ultimate passage of energy is Karma. And Darcy, and Duncan too, don't let me forget about him, is sure in for a very welcome visit from our friend Karma. Yeah, so a week after the energy dildo experience, Jemma's in the kitchen, like, pouring cereal into Ziploc bags, when she hears Ray's voices coming from the living room,

and it sounds a lot like Ruth is fighting with Darcy. Mmm. Do you mind your own business? No, I jump in. I jump in. Do you mind your own business? No, I jump in. I jump in. Realistically, in my personal timeline, in my world, I would have, it would have gotten to Fisticuffs

so much earlier. We would have been fighting by now. I would have been like, hey Ruth, need some help? Let me join. Jemma does not mind her business either, but she doesn't get involved. She just goes like really still and quiet so she can listen. And she hears Ruth saying, look, I'm not telling you what to do with your body, but

I have been covering you and Duncan's side of the gas bill for the past two months. And we all know who is using the stove the most. I would just like to say that I'm an immaculate storyteller because the way I asked this question 15 hours ago and I'm so happy to finally get an answer, they are in an apartment with gas and that bill is high. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That would have been an issue for me.

That would have been an issue for me. That would have been an issue for me. Darcy's like, you offered to help me. You said it wasn't a problem. And Ruth's like, it wasn't a problem, but it is now. If you need me to help cover your dumb decisions, then yeah, of course I have a problem with it. And Darcy's like, I thought we were friends. You said I didn't need to explain.

Ruth is like, it's not like you don't have a job. Why haven't you paid me back? And Darcy's like, I don't know. I just never have money left. I don't know where it goes. Well, you better find out. Jimma hears Ruth just like deeply sigh. And then Ruth's like, Darcy, has it not occurred to you that it might be expensive to have to go to urgent care

for food poisoning seven times? Oh, my. So she hasn't embraced modern medicine. D'Arcy, you're killing yourself, girl. No, this feels like Molly, you in danger, girl. Darcy, no! On one hand, this is what you get for being foolish. You know, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. On the other hand, what is her job?

How much thinking does it require? Those are good questions that I can't answer right now, but I do have questions for you, which is, have you ever heard of the danger zone? Not the Kenny Loggins song. I was about to say the Kenny Loggins song. The food temperature danger zone. You know, I did get my food safety certification,

but this was years ago. And so I don't, another lore drop. And so I don't, no. My jaw just dropped. I don't, another lore drop. And so I don't, no. My jaw just dropped. I don't, I don't remember. It's okay. I did some food safety research because quite honestly, the whole concept of a perpetual stew

seems like a biohazard to me personally. I spent some time in the perpetual stew subreddit. It's true. You might say I've had to really simmer in this knowledge for a while. I will let that one go because so many other upsetting things have happened in this conversation. You are lucky. So the thing is perpetual stews can be kept safely.

You just have to be so, so careful about the temperature. Like bacteria grows most rapidly between 40 degrees and 140 degrees Fahrenheit. That's a danger zone. The safest way to ensure a stew doesn't become a breeding ground for bacteria is actually to keep it in a slow cooker because then it keeps the temperature even. Oh, that makes sense. Another important thing about keeping the temperature even

is that you have to be very, very careful about keeping enough liquid in the perpetual stew. And the best way to do that is by not leaving a ton of starches in it, like beans or potatoes or rice, because they can make it hard to keep the entire thing like heated properly. Makes sense. Do you think Darcy and Duncan were doing any of these things?

No, I don't think Miss Phone Detox has ever looked up a detail about this perpetual stew in her life. I think she was like, stew, perpetual, me, sounds great. I got it. Gas, fire. Right, gas, fire, gas bill I don't have to pay for. Sounds great. No, they definitely have not looked this up. And I am not surprised at this development.

Yeah, so apparently Darcy and Duncan had taken turns over the past year getting violently food poisoned and getting so dehydrated that they had to go to urgent care to get fluids. And because Jemma was working so much, she hadn't really noticed that they'd been in and out. But as she's standing in the living room, she's like, wait, is that why the bathroom was always occupied? I just thought someone had IBS.

Damn. Meanwhile, Darcy is like, it's not the stew's fault. And Duncan finally chimes in like, yeah, we've been adding more ginger and turmeric to it, so it's actually healing us. You know, when you get to a point in life or a story where you just accept the biblical conclusions that come for people and you're just kind of like,

it's beyond me now, it's beyond me now, it's above me now. I can no longer help you go with God or whatever deity it is that me now. It's beyond me now. It's above me now. I can no longer help you go with God or whatever deity it is that you worship and sayonara so long. TITLE CREDITS You and Jemma both reached your breaking point at the same time because Jemma is like, I have heard enough. TITLE CREDITS I mean, correction, I reached my breaking point as soon as the cockroaches showed up. TITLE CREDITS No, you're right. But yes, continue.

Jemma just leaves and she goes up to her room. Her bedroom door is open and as soon as she steps inside, she's immediately hit with a familiar sight and smell. Merlin's ship. A fat pile of fresh cat shit in the middle of her bed. What is beyond a felony? What? What?

International Criminal Court? Yeah. The ICC. Let's get the Hagenbolt. Yep. I would be committing crimes that involved an international governing body at this point? Yeah, this is the final straw for Jemma.

By the end of the month, Jemma manages to find a new room in her co-worker's apartment and she moves the fuck out. Good. Good. This is like, you know, in those movies when someone's telling a really dramatic story and they light their cigarette and they're like, it was a crazy few years. And then it like flashes back to- I haven't heard that name in 72 years. Yes!

This is that. This is what I'm imagining. Will you ever look at a broth-based meal the same way ever again? No. No, I won't. I was pet sitting for a friend once and they, like many apartments in Brooklyn, they had a roach issue. I was like, okay, as long as I don't go into the kitchen at night, it's fine. They had a sort of old school tea kettle. I went to go fill it up to make myself some tea. And there were dead roaches floating in the water.

No! No! No! No! And to this day, I have only ever been able to use the clear electric tea kettles for this reason. And now pots of stew for me are going to be like this electric tea kettle.

Oh, my God. Are you saying that we gave you trauma? That's a new one. The normal Gossip Promise is updated. And I'm so happy that you're so happy about it. I'm so happy to give you this gift. I do have one final update for you, though. Okay. After Jemma's all settled into her new apartment,

she throws a housewarming party, and a few people at her housewarming party know both her and Ruth. And one of the girls pulls Jemma aside and is like, you are so lucky to have gotten out of the house when you did. Apparently, one weekend while Ruth was out of town, Darcy had decided to sage the entire apartment because the bad energies, you know.

She decided to do this high, so it's unclear if it was the sage or the joint that lit the fire. What we do know is that Darcy took a nap and woke up to the living room engulfed in flames. No one was harmed. There wasn't any structural damage, but the fire department had to be called

to put the fire out, and most of Darcy and Duncan's belongings were drenched, and all of the water soaked through to the plant shop on the ground level, which caused a massive loss of inventory. No, that's so sad for the plant shop. That is, however, the biblical karma I spoke of that hit Duncan and Darcy. But no, not the cute plant shop.

That was the only thing going for this apartment. The owner of the shop immediately hired a lawyer to make the tenants pay up. But luckily, Ruth and Gemma were never actually on the lease, so they're in the clear. Meanwhile, Darcy and Duncan just disappear in the night. Like, no one knows where they went. They left behind Merlin the cat. Oh, my God. But even though his plants had been ruined,

the owner of the plant shop took pity on Merlin, so now Merlin is living his best life in the backyard of the plant shop. Is it bad of me that I'm kind of impressed with how they disappeared into the night? No, I think that's fair. I think that's what the phone detox led towards. You're right. Because only going off the grid can you disappear like that. People who didn't disappear are Ruth, who after entire experience, decided to pack up all of her stuff

and become a digital nomad. She said, no more leases for me. I'm happy for her. The best part about being a digital nomad is that you don't have to deal with roommates. So... And that's Ruth. Ruth also got out.

She said, never again. Nadira, that's the end of our story. I feel like I've walked through fire. I feel like I've come out on the other side not a better person. But certainly changed. But certainly changed. But I also feel as though we've gone through something

together. And so I want to thank you for telling me this story that I will never forget, that truly when I close my eyes will haunt me at night. And maybe when I'm 55, I will tell my children about that time that I was on a podcast hosted by one of my friends. And they scared the living daylights so much so out of me that we haven't had soup, me and my children, for the past 20 years. haven't had soup, me and my children, for the past 20 years.

Wow. Normal gossip, inspiring generational curses. Generational trauma, generational curses. Nadira. Thank you so much. You've given me new bars to aspire to. Thank you. Thank you, that's all I can hope for. As we've established, you've also given me new bars to aspire to. Thank you. Thank you.

That's all I can hope for. As we've established, you've also given me something. I don't know if I will thank you for it. Something you'll never forget. That's true. Something I will never forget. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com.

Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at normalgossip. You can follow me on all social media at HeyDenae, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sarah Spragley-Rix and Jay Tolvera. Thank you to Samantha Gatsik, our audio engineer, and thank you to Danielle Hewitt for your additional production help this season.

The co-creators and Dowager Cleans for Normal Gossip are Alex DuJong-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defector's Projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's business guys. Alex DuJong-. Justin Ellis is Defector's Projects' editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's business guys. Alex Dujon Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at NormalGossip.store. Tara Chukobi designed our show art. Thank you to Katherine Xu, Brandi Jensen, Luis Pérez-Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wayne, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for all your help on this season.

Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and remember, you didn't hear this from me.