Normal Gossip - "Emily in Paris" Meets "Parasite" with Amanda Montell

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

We're going abroad for a long-awaited au pair adventure with writer and podcast host Amanda Montell! Follow Amanda on Instagram @amanda_montell and make sure to pre-order her book, The Age of Magical Overthinking. You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs). Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira) is our associate producer. Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Madison Kambour. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Support Radiotopia's fall fundraiser!

Hi everyone, it's Kelsey McKinney and Alex Sujong Lossland from Normal Gossip, the podcast where we anonymize real gossip and tell it back to you. And I'm Caitlin Pierce from Hang Up, a reality dating show with no rings attached. We're here together now because our shows are part of Radiotopia from PRX, but the three of us, we go way back. Oh yeah, so Alex and I used to work together and I actually produced the pilot of normal gossip when it was just a twinkle in her mother's eye We love it. So it's no surprise that we ended up together in the same place making fun Silly little shows that we love

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Hi, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. In each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am so excited to have with me today Amanda Montel. Amanda Montel is a writer and linguist from Baltimore. She is the author of the acclaimed books Word, Slud, and Coltish, and the forthcoming,

the Age of Magical Overthinking. Along with hosting the podcast sounds like a cold, her writing has appeared in the New York Times Marie Claire, Cosma Politan, and more. She holds a degree in linguistics from NYU and lives in Los Angeles with her partner, plants, and pets. You can find her on Instagram at Amanda Montel, Amanda, welcome. Oh my God. Oh, it's been too long.

It's been one of a week's. We were on a Zoom together. Yeah, and that was already too long because the life that I spent without knowing you wasn't right, likewise. Okay, okay, Amanda, can you tell me, start me off with the class and first question, tell me what your relationship with Gossip is? Yeah, oh my god. Well, my relationship with gossip is actually a little bit formal, because I did write about

it a scoosh in my first book of words. You sure fucking did. So yeah, I would say there are a lot of negative connotations associated with gossip. I think I don't love the concept of shit-talking for truly no reason, because something called, I'm sure you've heard of it, spontaneous trade transfer in secures, where you start to take on the qualities of the person you're shit-talking in the eyes of your interlocutor. So I try to avoid it, but I do love

in general purposeful gossip for the purposes of trading information, establishing in group values. And if there are some casualties in the spirit of doing that, that's a little bit of a bitch, you know, who's to say whether that's like a rock? Well, that's just their misogyny, you know what I mean? Exactly.

I heard that you brought a gossip for me, is that true? Oh my god, it is. Oh my god. Oh my god, can I have it? Yeah, of course. This is my favorite story to tell. And if I may, please, a piece of gossip that reflects actually really, really, really well

on everyone in the story except me. And I think that that still counts as gossip. Gossip does have to be salty, right? Like, it can be flattering. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure.

It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure.

It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. It does, for sure. made me impervious to being Starstruck. I have this bias about myself too, and it's because I've never felt Starstruck. And I think if you've never felt Starstruck,

it's easy to be like, I'm actually built different. Yeah, this is what happened. At some point last year, it was 2022, I attended a dinner in a movie at home party, very casual get together at the home of kind of like a famous director. Okay, famous, even though you look at Los Angeles. Yeah, exactly.

I live in LA, so it comes up, it comes up. And so I show up to this party, I'm feeling very chill. I'm wearing literally leggings. I look full millennial cringe. I'm just like, it's a casual event. And everyone's like putting together a little dinner plate for themselves, sitting at the table. I'm like, great, chill vibes.

I put together a plate for myself. I sit at this fairly small glass table. I look up and my organs shut down because who is right across from me, but the father, the son, the Holy Spirit, Daniel Radcliffe. Oh, no. Alex is gonna have a con-nip-sh-in fit when she hears this.

He's six inches from me. He's six inches from me. And like, I love Terry Potter growing up. Okay. I'm not like a Potter head, so to speak. I also think Daniel Radcliffe is a particularly jarring celebrity to be confronted with because he's so, so famous, but also does not read the same way as some of these famous

people, right? Like he doesn't read as structured, as serious, as, you know, all of these things. So you're like, he could maybe be my friend, right? Like, totally. And also, we're size compatible. I have a bias for people who are as short as me. So your size compatible, Daniel Radcliffe has seated himself in front of also glass table

makes this complicated because if your hands are sweaty, you can't hide them. Like, you're in trouble. I know. And also, like, glass tables don't absorb any sound. Yes. So I'm like, Ricky, I know. And also like glass tables don't absorb any sound. So I'm like, Ricky, you're the first there, you know? Well, of course he's so fucking nice.

And he just looks up and he's like, hi, I'm Dan. And I was like, oh, I was like, I was like, I don't think I said my name. And I like looked away.

I looked into my food. I was like eating cauliflower very quietly. Just like, not in my body, not knowing what to do. So now it's time to put our plates in the sink and go watch the movie. This is a liturgy that I understand. Dinner is over, we go to watch movie now. Yeah, class of tea.

But I'm not, I'm not fine. You and Daniel Radcliffeiffe going on a little date. Oh, like everyone else in the room like completely disappeared. Room like shh. Sorry, a little sound effect for the part. OK, so I'm like, OK, OK, and I like pick up my plate. And I notice that Dan, OK, for a statement in basis.

Dan. He introduced himself as Dan. Dan, okay, first name of the game basis. Dan? He introduced himself as Dan. Dan, Dan. So he is now standing in the kitchen with his plus one speaking to a fellow guest, who I guess was better at keeping her shit together than me, because it seemed like they had just met for the first time and were now engaged in normal conversation,

which I was incapable of doing. Now, there's a problem because they are standing between the kitchen island and the cabinet and I need to throw your, yeah, you need to get rid of your play. Yeah, I need to walk by. So a normal person under normal circumstances would walk by and say like, oh, excuse me. So sorry, excuse me. Yeah, hey, sorry, like just need to get to the sink or whatever.

What did you say Amanda? But I walked by and I first of all burst out in a jingle. No, I don't know why my brain was like seeing what you're just saying. I'm like, nervous retelling just saying it. I walk by. I'm like nervous retelling this story. Like I can tell. I can tell. Oh fuck.

Okay. I walk by and I go, boop boop boop boop. Oh, pottery. Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! I, I said, pottery, pottery.

Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! I said Potter Potter me No, I didn't just say oh part of me I I Walked by and I burst into song and I think what actually happened to was that my brain scrambled all the data that it's gathered about Daniel Radcliffe.

We know he's Harry Potter and I have seen him on Broadway 12. Yes, so you know that he can't. Yes, you know he sings. Yes, we know he sings. So I burst out into song much like character in a musical. Nothing makes you more relatable to someone than embodying their career question mark. I truly like single-weight female him. to someone that embodying their career question mark. I was, I truly like single white female.

Effectively like stripped off his skin and wearing. I'm stocking. By reflecting his entire IMDB page back then. And backly on you. I went, oh, Bob, Bob, excuse me, pardon me. And it was kind of British. And it was kind of British too. So, yeah, it was fucking British too. So, you're just like, are there any shovels around here?

I could dig myself a grave with. Yeah, yeah. No, honestly, the sink at this Hollywood director's house is so large, I genuinely considered crawling into it. Just dying there. Yeah. I was just supposed to. I was like, fuck me.

Yeah, so I said, boo, boo, boo, excuse me, potter me in a British accent, I know this. And then I walked into the kitchen, put my plate in the sink, face-pombed, you know when you make a very sort of first-sick old, plastic gesture in real life, I face-pombed, I was like, fuck, fuck, fuck, I will never come back from this. But I really do hope to cross paths with him again someday to further redeem myself. And also just because I really liked him.

Yeah, I guess if you know Daneel Groud Clip, simply we'll just send this to him. Here you go. Do you remember this? Yes. Dan, do you remember this? Do you remember? I hope not, but you know, I guess I can't be that ashamed

if I'm sharing it with the normal gossip crowd. So that's so true. We thank you for your vulnerability and honesty. Thank you so much. It's really hard out here to be balney. This story's taking place like pre-COVID. We're talking like mid-2010s, fancy by Iggy and Zailia at the top of the charts. It's that era of the world. Holy shit.

Okay. So this was not like the best era of time to graduate from college. There are no jobs on the market and our friend of a friend Adele knows that intimately. She gets this like hourly wage, boring job that doesn't pay her enough and she's like, I'm gonna lose my fucking mind. Sure, sure. When you begin doing this, you often create a fantasy life for yourself in the future

that you can obsess over. For some people that is grad school, for Adele, it is Europe. And she's like, if I could just move to Europe, I could have anything I want. I still believe that. Exactly. And she's like, I don't have the money to just go over there. You know, there are people after college who just go to Europe somehow and are there for like months. She's like, I can't do that. But like, that's what I want is to be in Europe. Do you have any ideas for how she could be in Europe? Woofing? Okay.

Do they woof there? Do they woof? I'm sure they do. Yeah, you can work on a farm and be put up for free. So that is one option. I can think of like a sort of, no, you can't do an exchange anymore by the time you've graduated.

Escorting? This is a great idea. What you're doing this kind of iterative process is what Adele is doing every single day when she gets home from work, right? Like what are the ways that I could go to Europe? So one day she has a particularly bad day at her shift. She has like two glasses of wine.

She's googling on her computer. Move to Europe, American. Europe, grad school. Move to Europe, Visa. Find European spouse, how? Well, now all the sudden she's like rearranging her sentences with Yoda. Yes, she falls asleep on the couch googling.

She wakes up in the morning and her computer is open to a website. Mm. On the website is a like beautiful young woman holding a kid on her hip. Behind her, the most beautiful couple Adele has ever seen in her entire life. Underneath them is the tagline, simply, safely, directly.

Okay. And a button that says, find your O-Pair family today. Oh, duh! Duh! Fucking duh! Because so many of my friends established themselves in Los Angeles by nannying for the wealthy. Oh, yeah, it's a pretty good option in some ways, but what do you think about O'Pairing as an option for our girlina Adele? Okay, I admittedly do not fully understand the difference between nannying, O'Pairing. I'm not sure like what you're truly signing your name in the devil's book for. Okay, so the big difference nannies do not live with you. Generate, write, write, write. Nannies live somewhere else. Opares usually live with you. And in the like international opair situation, you can get visas for O'Pairs, which you can't necessarily do for Nannies.

Do I understand the exact legal requirements of this? No. A Dell fucks around on this website for a little while. She's like, hmm, I don't really love children, but I'm like indifferent to them, like a happy younger sister. Like, maybe this would be fine She's like would it be crazy to make a profile? She's like nah, I'll just I'll do it anyway. I'll just do it as a bit when she makes a profile You specify things like where you're from what your gender identity is what countries you want to appear in and like the start dates And how long you can stay so it all makes a profile and kind of the way this works is like people are searching

for each other. So you can search for families and families can search for you and then you can message each other. She's like, what countries do I want to go to? She checks every single country in Western Europe except Austria because she didn't like the sound of music. So she's like, these are the countries I would like to go to. She begins scrolling.

When you pick a family, you can see things about what they're searching for. Like, do they want you to do housework? Do their children have special needs? Do they have pets? Do they smoke, right? All these things. It's like, for Adele, it is essentially

fulfilling the emotional requirement that some people use petfinder.com for. Yeah, you're just like, oh, cute! Look at this potential life I could have. It's a scapeism. I am now going to share something with you. Oh, wow. Multi-media presentation. Can you see this? Oh, yes, I can.

Okay, can you please describe to the listener what it is that you're seeing? I am seeing what looks to be a stock image of a white blonde woman who looks like she auditioned to be in the movie Get Out. Uh-huh. And her husband who looks like he is really into celery juice. Um, he's a white man as well with a hairline that's still doing the most. Great. They are holding children whose bodies suggest the ages of one and a half and four. But their faces are blocked out. of one and a half and four. But, but their faces are blocked out.

So, my data is limited. Respect the blocking out of the faces. But again, it looks like a stock photo. I've never seen a genuine photo of a family that is lit or posed this way. And then the listing is for a family of two children, one and six. What does that fucking mean? They're ages.

Oh, they're one and six. So my guesses were wrong. Well, one of my guesses was right. Oh, that's a small six-year-old. Very height compatible with me. Okay. They live in Germany, but their nationality is Canadian and German. I'm gonna guess that the wife is German.

That's what I'm looking at there. The duration stay is 12 months. And should I read the ad? You can read that, yes. Okay, so it says, Dear O'Pare, hello potential O'Pare's. We are looking to complete our family with a creative, thoughtful, English-speaking Opares. Our ideal Opares is genuine patient led by her heart

and possesses an entrepreneurial spirit. She should have a passion for cleaning, organizing, and young children, this doesn't seem like the right fit for Adele, by the way. Just because, no, not that I'm suggesting that Adele is not creative and thoughtful, and I'm pretty sure she's an English speaker, but I don't know about the patient and passion for young children parts because she wants her life to fucking start already and she doesn't even really like kids, so I don't know, I don't know about this.

They say, our son will be your main responsibility, but his sister will sometimes be around. It is our hope, sometimes be around. Where else will she be? It is our hope. Me, 36, my husband, 40, to find someone who can support the whole household in all our seasons, rhythms, and endeavors.

I wonder what kind of rhythms they're referring to. Who can know? Do you have any takeaways from this listing? Any feelings or words that scare you? Yeah, so first of all, I get a little scared whenever people refer to phases of their life as seasons, because it feels very new age evangelical. Like, yes. You know, it's like, that language is like fully in the dialect of contemporary evangelicalism. It's giving like, this is on my heart. This is the season for testifying.

I don't fucking know. I don't speak it. But, exactly. You're doing a good interpretation. Thank you. My, like, nitpicky thing about this listing is the phrase complete our family. Oh, complete our family.

Oh, my God, I totally missed it because it was so early. Because I'm like, you're hiring someone. Right, right. People who work for you are inherently not family. Oh, my God. I completely, I was so distracted by the rest of it. Totally, I forgot about the first line. Complete our family is demonic.

That is like inexcusable. Complete our family, it sounds like the completion process, which is a teal swan cult thing. That's scary. I'm scared. Yeah, complete our family. I'm totally scared. On the left side of this page that you're looking at, there are two sections. It's like, what we're searching for and related info. Can you just scan that really quickly and see if there's anything in there that you don't like? I mean, they love smoking, which like in Europe, a city from time to time, class it. I can't knock it.

I can't knock it. They want someone who's obsessed with cleaning, but they smoke around their kids. The household probably smells a little. It sounds tough to clean. Okay, okay, okay. The left side. Housework required.

We've had O'Pare's before. I'm so unfamiliar with the O'Pare industrial complex that I, I don't make great jobs. Yeah, I don't even know what red flags to look for necessarily, but I am not as scared as you were during my Deanna Radcliffe story, but I'm starting to feel a chill. Okay, great.

Her only qualm with this is that it starts in like two weeks. Okay quick turnaround. It's a quick turnaround. But her pro is, she's like I've always wanted to go to October fest. Sure. Germany that sounds like a blast. What do you think? Do you think she should reach out? How are you feeling? No, I think, again, Adele, it's like no shade, but when you're very internally motivated by your own sense of adventure, your own wanderlust, oh God, what a cringey word. I've never used that word in my entire life.

But if you're motivated by like a void you need to fill. And for her it feels like boredom, list list list list, lack of purpose. And someone's kids are involved and you're kind of just like, I wanna go to October Fest and I wanna go right now. It's feeling like a bad match. You know, those are all great points, Adele,

is not gonna heed any of them. She is ignoring all of your good points. She's like, well, what if I just message them? And we just see how it goes. Okay. This is how I am with tattoos by the way. Yes. Like, I have a lot of tattoos.

And the reason for that is because I get a little bug in my head and I'm like, what if if I just like drove past the tattoo place? And I'm like, I saw a mistake. And then without a doubt, the end of the day rolls around, and I have a fucking seashell tattoo on myself. Yeah, I also have that exact same brain disease, which is, I think, nice for us. A Dell messages them.

And she's getting info about what they're gonna do, what they're gonna pay, what her life would be like there. And she finds out that she'll make more money per week than her current hourly job. Okay. So she's like, okay, little more money. She finds out that they'll provide her a bedroom with like an ensuite bathroom and food. Love that. I love food and I love a convenient toilet. She will do her own pair job for like 20 hours a week and tidy up and stuff. Adele, you know, she's never had like a real full-time job.

She has no sense of work-life balance. So she's like, this seems fine. She learns that she'll only be in charge of the older child because the baby has its own opair. Whoa. And she's like, okay, great. I love these parents are just like, we're gonna hire some young people to take care of our individual babies individually. And we're just gonna go off and smoke.

It's some young Americans. Let's get some young Americans in here. What could go wrong? Yeah. The mom, we're gonna call her and smoke. That's some young Americans. Let's get some young Americans in here. What could go wrong? Yeah. The mom, we're gonna call her Camille. Camille tells her on the phone that she has a burgeoning yoga business. And then if Adele wants to make any extra money,

she is welcome to help out with that. So there's like a second optional revenue stream. Oh God, no, no, this is really bad. This is what is it about the yoga that has turned you? No, it's because if you're a German white lady who wants to start a cold, you're gonna fill it with yoga and babies, period. No, that's really bad.

If you're Adele and you are colorblind so you can't see any red flags, is there anything here that you would think to check? Like anything you want to do while you're on the phone with this woman. So what would I do to check? I mean I I really I don't I'm out of luck. I would get fucked. I would get fucked by this lady. Camille. Adele has one smart thought. And her smart thought is, can I speak to the previous Opaire?

Oh genius, genius. Camille is like, absolutely. She gives her the number of a Canadian Opaire that this family had when they lived in Canada. And the Canadian Opaire speaks really highly of this family. Okay. Adele's like, hey now, hey now, this is what dreams are made of. Like, let's go.

Ha ha ha. Do people warn her that this might be bad? Yes. Do people tell her that childcare is very hard and she has no experience doing it? Also, yes, she does not care. She is like, it is my dream to go to Europe. It is my dream to like post about being in Europe.

Oh, no, it's giving Emily and Paris meets Parasite. Yes. Exactly. She's like, I'm doing this for the plot. And if the plot turns out to be a slasher, like, whatever. I do admire that. And I do a lot of shit in life for the plot. I cannot lie.

I love a delusional self-narrativization. Yes. I do not like that there are children involved. That's the only thing. Is that collateral damage could be really ugly. I will promise you, up top, this is a happy podcast, not a sad podcast, so no children will be hurt. Okay, great point.

No, don't worry. Don't worry. They're fine. What? I'm Gideon Nathan, I'm Sam Raqalof. We're here to tell you about another defector podcast called Name Dropping. Name Dropping is a show about how our names affect our daily lives. It's also about a stranger guessing your name right, a nickname that's a racist slur,

and how to give your kids the coolest last name possible. We went deep into the moniker minds for this one to bring you a bunch of new stories. I'd say there's some people who are immediately like, is that your real name? Which like, yes, it is. I had this moment of, should I just go by my middle name, should I just make up the stage name altogether? But this is who I am. Why would I come up with something that is supposed to be me and I limited to this one realm in my life, which isn't the total me, right? If I'm renaming myself, I'm not about to like enact colonial violence by giving myself

a white Anglo name. We learned a lot while making this season and we can't wait for you to hear it. We'll have new episodes every Tuesday until Thanksgiving. Find us wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay, we're gonna start with week one. Before we move on, are you hearing any alarm bells with me saying week one? Yeah, because now I'm thinking that there will only be some weeks, no months. Okay, week one. Adele arrives in Germany.

She is picked up by this beautiful family at the airport. They are all very tall. They are all very beautiful. Oh no, I wouldn't do well. I would not do well. You need size compatibility. Vain is great. She gets to this house.

They like show her room. It's beautiful, right? It's European. It has Italian plaster walls. It has a linen comforter. It has linen sheets. Yum. But downstairs, the house is like incredibly aesthetic, but dirty. Kids toys everywhere. Sippy cups everywhere. Every cabinet in the kitchen is open. Okay. So now this family is suggesting we love a facade. Aha, there are mountains of dishes in the sink. And also parts of this house are under construction.

So there is like tarp, you know, like in the doorways, and there's like particulate dust everywhere. Oh no. Camille and her husband, we're gonna call him Florian. Say that this is because this house is a rental while their real house is being renovated. Oh God. Once we start talking about real house fake house. Oh it's like what else is railing fake? It's Sunday. This family is like on Sunday we all have

family dinner. They're like beat downstairs at 1930. Complete our family at 1930. Adele comes down at 6.30. They're like, ma'am, you're an hour early. And she's like, aha, I'm starving. My bad, she goes back upstairs. Okay, she's hungry, she wants a bowl. Yeah, she's hungry, she comes out at the right time. It's beautiful, right?

Like they have this table all landscaped out, it's candle lit, they have like a nice bottle of reasling. Everything is lovely except the kids are like trying to wreck shit. Like they're throwing unpainted like wooden toys all over the place. Oh no, Montessori gone wrong. The older one is like running in circles. And Adele is freaking out because she's like,

in a weird spot, she's like, I wanna prove to the parents that I can manage them, but also the parents are here, so I don't wanna overstep. Step on their toes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's just kind of like, oh, ha, ha, like, sit down to the kids

and because she's like a new person, they do, which magic, congratulations to her. Right. They sit down for dinner and she's like, okay, it's me, Camille Florian, the two kids. Where's the baby's nanny? Yeah. So she's like, will the other O'Pare join us for dinner?

They're like, she's shackled in the basement. I can't feel it. Camille and Florian are like, listen. You're part of this family now and we want to be honest with you. Oh God. The other Opaire, she had a personal emergency and she had to go. Uh-huh. They're like, don't worry, if you want, you can help with the baby and we'll pay you extra.

No, no, no, no, no, the bait and switch. The baits on C. Or if you don't want to help with the baby, like Camille works for herself and like she can find a way to make it work. Okay. I know the right thing to do, which would be to set a boundary

and have a polite conversation about what was discussed. Yes. But I'm a pushover in these scenarios. So I would be like, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, kook, They're like, great. They have this whole lovely dinner. It's beautiful. They pour her glass of the fancy re-sling. She's like, this is the life I want. I wish I were them. After dinner, Florian's starting to do the dishes. And she's like, oh, let me help you. She brings them over there.

And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I've got it. Okay. A thing that I just would like you to know in general is that opairs in many families are not allowed to be alone with husbands. Yeah, I mean, that only makes perfect sense. Yes. Too long. It's exactly exactly.

So, you know, but Adele's like, this is great for me. I don't have to do any dishes. She goes upstairs. She goes to sleep. The next morning they show her where everything is. They're like, here are the cleaning supplies. Here's the kids bags. Here's what they need.

Did it, did it, did it, and they leave her for the day. Adele's like, why would I clean? I'm gonna take the kids to school. I'm gonna drop them off. I'm gonna wander around. Like these people clearly don't have a high standard for cleanliness. And I'm not very good at cleaning.

So she's like, not my problem. Maybe they deserve each other Adele. And she picks up the kids from school and she is like, what a kids need to do. Let's see, I'll take them to the museum. There's like a little kid event. The kids are learning about art. One of the kids is like, I'm hungry, I need a snack.

And she's like, okay, we can get you a snack. And you know how museums have those little cafes? Of course, I love those. Yeah, she takes them to the little cafe. She gets them, you know, like, six euro cookie to share. Everyone's happy. Adele is like her, I'm those. Yeah, she takes them to the little cafe, she gets them, you know, a like six euro cookie to share everyone's happy. Adele's like her, I'm doing a great job. They come home, she brings the kids home,

they're playing, she decides she'll clean a little, she tighties up a little. And while she's doing this, she notices that like one area of the living room is a match. It's full of knives. Oh, no, it's a neck. Yeah. The opposite. It's full of knives. Oh, no, it's a neck. Yeah. The opposite.

It's so clean. Okay. Is that where she shoots her vlogs? Yes. The kids are like, we're not allowed to go over there. Mommy works over there. Oh, my fucking Lord.

Oh, my fucking Lord. Mommy works over there. Oh, I'm sad. I'm sad. I'm sad. Adel's like, okay, so I'll make sure not to make that area messy. Camille arrives home. The kids are so happy to see her.

She's like, how is your day? What did you do? The kids are like, we went to the museum. She's like, that's so great. What else did you do? And they're like, we had a cookie. And Camille is like, Adel, can I speak to you in the kitchen?

Oh fuck. The children have never had sugar before. What? So this mom is like, you have polluted their bodies with refined sugar. And the death penalty now will be fine? And a delus like,

I didn't know that. And Camille is like, oh, did you not read the binder? Oh my fucking god. I also, I can't get over sorry. And again, I love a sweet, on-a-night in Europe. I know judgment.

But like, the kids can't have sugar, but our lungs are full of carcinogens. Doesn't make sense. Listen, a lot of things that people do, they don't make sense. I know, it's like the whole stereotype in LA where like people spend $16 on the Haley Bieber smoothie array before they do a line of coke.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And Camille's like, there's a giant binder in your room with all the info on the kids. Did you think that you were just going to do whatever you wanted with them? And she's like, ooh, I did think that. Like, my bad.

Oh my God. She's like, I'll read the binder, I promise. And Camille's like, okay. So she goes upstairs, she reads the binder, and then so much of the binder is like so picky. Like, it's like no sugar, sure. But it's also like rules about how to speak to them. Words not to use.

Yeah. It's like they should never see your phone screen. Never say no to them, only redirect to them, right? Like all of these parenting things. Yes. Adele is 22 years old. So she's like, yay, yay, I got it. Right. Oh fuck. Oh God. Oh no. Oh no. How many weeks? How many weeks? We're on day three. Day three things go great. You know, she gets up, she takes the kids to their little things, she goes and gets them, she takes them to the park,

she follows the rules and the binder. After they eat their snack, she's like, I'm gonna clean up all this stuff. I'm gonna clean up all the dishes in the sink, I'm gonna clean up all their snack stuff. She puts all the like dirty food on the plates into the sink. The problem is that Adele has put a lot of food into the sink and this

is a German house with 16th century plumbing. Oh, there are no garbage disposal here. This is a cultural problem. Got it. So she has put a bunch of food into the sink, which is now not draining. And it's still not draining when Florian gets home from work. Oh, are they going to fuck? No, thank God. That was a good one. No, the opposite of that, he's fucking pissed. He's like, why would you put garbage down the sink? Like, obviously there's no garbage in this one here.

What are you doing? He is a polyplumber. He's like very stressed about this. He's like, this is gonna be so expensive to fix. And I'd tell it to her head is like, this is gonna be so expensive to fix. Did it, did it, uh, yeah. And a delet her head is like, I don't understand what the real problem is here. I'm sorry for backing up this,

but in her head she's like, you have an opair. You live in this huge house. Like how much of an expense could this really be for you? Yeah. Exactly. This drama concludes. She goes to sleep. On Friday, she wakes up and Camilla is like, hey, do you wanna go to the yoga class?

I'm gonna lead. Florian can take care of the kids if you wanna come with me instead. Oh no, oh no. Zibetansphiche. Zibetansphiche. Do you wanna go to the yoga class? Never, ever.

Why? Why? Because she's going to do a spell. She's going to do an evil spell. Adele is like, I want to go. I'm going to the yoga class. It seems way more fun than hanging out with these kids. They drive to this fancy, fancy park.

Camille is wearing a white, aff-leisure, two-piece outfit. Oh, white. Oh, no. Everyone who rolls up is wearing white. They all have yoga mats that cost like $250. Yeah. No, it's mid-Somar. It's mid-Somar, but German. Adele is wearing a college t-shirt and leggings that are like kind of transparent. And she's like, this I do not look like I belong here.

Oh, no. Her labia are going to be seen. Yes. not look like I belong here. Oh no, her labia are gonna be seen. Yes, when they arrive, Camille is like, do you wanna hear some hot gossip? And it tells like, yeah, of course. And Camille then reveals that several of the other Opares are sleeping with various parents. Oh yeah, sorry, I scrambled that story

when you first told it to me. I changed it to what I wanted to hear, which is that all these yoga monops are fucking. I wish, I wish this is where this was going. Damn it, no. She's like, don't sleep with my husband. And Adela is like, oh, I'm sure I would never do that, like no offense. Camille, then, is like, oh my god, I'm so glad you're here.

Like, I'm so glad we're bonding. This is so great. Like, we're gossiping. You're here with me. We're about to start my yoga class. She's like, can you take photos? And Adele's like on my iPhone? And Camille's like, yeah, let me like log you in.

And she takes Adele's phone. And she goes to her Instagram and she logs Adele into her account. And Adele looks in and she is like, oh, that is a lot of followers. Okay, okay. Lot of moms, or a lot of followers. Yeah.

And a Dell is like, okay. So she takes her photos, she's running around. She's like, this is kind of fun. She's like, this is way more fun than hanging out with these kids. Like, I'm just taking these photos. I'm in a yoga class. Everyone hears hot. I'm in like a weird white, athlete, shirt, cold, like,

shirt, whatever. She shows Camille the photos at the end of the yoga and Camille is like, these are so good. You're a natural talent. Do you want to be my mom, Fluencer? Second banana? Basically, she posts one of Adele's photos to the grid. Tens of thousands of likes.

And Adele's like, ooh, look at me. Of course, her brain chemistry is popping off. It is now the end of week one. How do you feel? I feel scammed. I feel ill. I feel like Adele is the perfect victim for this family. She is the exact breed of like vulnerable,

but also a little pick me. Uh-huh. And that positions her perfectly to be this mom fluencers little victim. I don't necessarily feel super bad for her. Uh-huh. Yeah. I'm excited to see what happens.

Week two. Adele begins her own Instagram account, like a little travel Insta. Sure, Emily and Paris. Every day, she's taking pictures. Adelaide Duceldo. Yeah, yeah. She's taking pictures.

She's posting them. She's writing little captions. Every day, she's gaining followers. She's like, this is going great. Yeah. Her day off is supposed to be Wednesday. And she's like, okay, I'm going to go downtown. I'm going to go to these sites,

I'm going to take my photo. But Tuesday night, Florian is like, hey, I know tomorrow's your day off, but you took last Friday off to go with Camille to yoga. So you didn't make it to 20 hours, so you can work tomorrow, right? And it does like, I did not really realize that yoga was optional. Right. And I did not really realize that yoga was optional. Right. And I did work the whole time. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Yes. I'm seeing the subtle manipulation. But she's like fine, whatever. Like I can take the kids with me to see the weird church. It'll be fine. Sure.

She does this. She works Wednesday. Do you like this decision? No, no, I don't like it at all because it's a slippery little slope. It starts with, oh actually, you spent your day off doing yoga photography, but you still need to meet your quota, and who knows where it could go from there. Yeah. Thursday morning, Camille is like, you did such a good job with the photos at Yogan Friday. Like, everyone loves them.

I've been posting them this week. They're getting so many likes. Adele and her head is like, I know because I've been checking. Camille is like, I was wondering if you would be willing to take more photos of the kids. Ew. And Adele's like,

oh my god, I would love to. Ew. So she's taking photos of the kids. Ew. And it tells like, oh my god, I would love to. Ew. So she's taking photos of the kids, she's uploading them to like a shared drive. Camille is posting these photos at the end of every day with captions about how much she like loves being a mother. Oh gross. What do you want to do here? What do you want to do here? No, I want to, I want to, I want to go hang out with Daniel Radcliffe and forget about this entire universe. I mean, the whole time, I'm just saying it's like the fakery and the fuckery of like the pristine corner of the house while your kids are playing in squalor and, you know, exploiting their likeness. It's very ugly. Yeah, and luckily like like, the level of Camille Florey and Bad is like, tradwifed influencer. Like, they love their kids that are nice to them. Yeah. But they also are like, what if you took cuter photos of them?

Like, make sure that they look cute. Yeah, you can't throw any one in jail for that. Yeah, exactly. You know, not wanting to post ugly photos of your kid, that's actually good parent-take. I know, it's like puts a heck to the children, and I have a heck of a safe that. Yeah. On Friday of this week, a week two, Camille offers her to go to yoga again on her day off.

Now we're skeptical. Now we're skeptical. She's like, come with me. I have a like new sponsor, new brand to promote. I need photos. Okay. Con, it's work. Right.

Pros, you do maybe get some swag samples and you get to watch Camille work. And like see how she poses. Yeah, you're shadowing. What do you want to do? At this point anthropologically, I want to go again for the plot for the plot. The brand that Camille is newly sponsored by is some natural deodorant. And so Adele is taking all these photos of her like applying deodorant in the

part. And she's like, wow, this is so beautiful. I love my work. A down like does get samples of the deodorant. And she's like, not this way I was hoping for, right? I was hoping for something a little bit more expensive. The natural deodorant, but she's like, it is nice. I like it. So she's like, things are kind of working out.

She'll smell delish. Well, she potentially crashes and burns. I know there's no violence in this story. I think maybe I just want there to be. She watches Camille pose, and then over the weekend when she goes to her little things, it has strangers take her photo. She poses the way Camille poses. She gains a bunch of followers.

Very quickly. Very quickly. Okay, pop off for a date. It's literally like Walt Whitman and Oscar Wilde. Yes. Yes. She is amped. She's like, things are going great.

I'm gaining followers really rapidly. I look hot in all these photos and it's almost October fest. Oh my God. It's not even October fest yet. Not even Jesus Christ. She's like, things are gonna be huge for me personally. Yeah. Sunday at Family Dinner, Camille is like,

thank you so much for taking photos this week. Like we got so many brand deals. And Adele stands up for herself. She's like, I think I'm having a really great time. I love taking photos of you, but I do think that I should be paid for the photo work. Okay. And Florian is like, we can absolutely discuss that,

but we also need to discuss the plumber. He does not want to pay her extra until she has paid off the plumbing bill. Adele is like, I do not think that this is fair. She's like, I don't want to pay the plumbing bill. Like the pipes are old, I didn't know. I'm sorry that I'm from America, but like I don't think that this is fair.

And Florey and his like, well, you know, there's another thing, which is that part of your job is to clean and you aren't cleaning anything. Okay. He's like, we're gonna have to hire a cleaner to do your job and not cost money too. So you're gonna pay for our cleaner basically? I think he's using it more than excuse to not pay her

for the photo. Which is like, we're in some like really fucked up negotiations right now, is the point. Yeah. And Adele is like, it is true that I'm not cleaning. She's like, it's so hard, I hate it. The kids are messy, I don't want to. She's like, it's so hard. I hate it. The kids are messy. I don't want to.

She's like, and, Kimmyl just crops the mess out anyway. So, like, what is it matter? If a mess falls in the woods and the influencer's followers aren't there to see it, is it even a mess? It's not. Exactly.

At dinner that night, they do not pour her any wine. She doesn't get to have any. No, no, you sleep. It was a bad night. It is now week three. The house is a wreck. So bad that even Adele notices it. And she's like, wow, I should probably do something about that, but she does not. That night, Florian Camille are like, we need to talk to you. And she's like, in her head, I am certain this is about the fact that it is so messy.

And they're like, oh, no, no, no, this isn't about it being messy. They're like, this coming weekend is October fast. And Adele's like, oh yeah, I know, I'm like, so excited. And Camille's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't wanna be excited. Like, it's all tourists, it's always a mess. We always leave.

We're going to the Alps this weekend. Oh no. And she's like, she's like, you can buy your own ski pass and like you can ski too. You can come with us. You can buy your own ski pass. This is f*** off Camille. Adele is like, no thanks.

I'm going to October Fest. Like, I've got my little dress, my little dern doll. I'm ready. And Camille and Florian are like, oh, no, no, no. Going to the Alps is a work trip. Like if you want a vacation, you need to make other plans. Devastating for Adele.

What do you do here? I don't know. I mean like, we make plans. Devastating for Adele. What do you do here? I don't know. I mean, like, we make plans. God laughs. I think Adele probably didn't put the proper measures in place to secure her October fest fantasy. So I don't know. I mean, if it's me genuinely, I'm like starting to plan to cut my losses

and head back to the US of A and sort of like take it on the chin, re-strategize how to get back to Europe under better circumstances. Adele is like putting her foot down. She's like the only thing I want is to go to our topor fest. She's like, I won't be going to the Alps. And Camille and Florian are like, we can't make you come, but they're like clearly pissed

and clearly want to make her go. She doesn't know what to do. She goes to get the kids from school. She takes them to the park and she can't hold it together, right? She's like crying because she's like, I want to go to October Fest so bad. Like all I want to do is drink beer out of a glass boot and kiss

a tall man. Like leave me alone. Really? A little. One of the other opairs, one of the ones that Camille had pointed out as like being a bad opair, comes over and is like, your Camille and Florian's opair, right? And it's like, yeah. And she's like, are you okay?

Like I know they can be hard on people. And it's like, yeah. And she's like, are you okay? Like, I know they can be hard on people. And it tells like, what do you mean? And this random repair is like, I mean, her last repair didn't even make it two weeks. Like, that's not a good sign. Well, it's very like Emily Gilmore's maids. Mm-hmm. Yes.

And she's like, why? Like, why did the other repair only last two weeks? And this girl's like, I don't know, like she didn't never talk to us. Like Camille does a really good job of making sure that her repair is never talked to anyone else. Adele is like, well while I have you here, I'm having a bit of a situation.

She's like, they want me to go to the outs this weekend. I don't wanna go. She's like, trying to take me away from this thing I really wanna do. And the other repair is like, well, do you have a contract? And she's like, yeah, of course I have a contract. And the other repair is like, go look at your contract. A classic lesson to learn.

A classic lesson to learn. So Adele goes home and looks at her contract and it explicitly states that she has to be given a month's notice for required travel. Oh, bruh! Fact check! So she's like, I am bringing this contract to Camille. And she goes to Camille and she's like, my contract actually says that I have to be given like a month's notice.

And so I can't go with you for Alps. And actually I'll be staying here. Thank you. And Camille is like, oh my god, thank you for showing this to me. I also have something I need to share with you. And she brings up an Excel spreadsheet where she has kept tallies of every expense Thank you. And Camila is like, oh my god, thank you for showing this to me. I also have something I need to share with you. And she brings up an Excel spreadsheet where she has kept tallies of every expense

Adele has allegedly cost them. So it is not only the plumber and the cleaner, it is also the wine and the yoga class. And this total is like 285 euros. Stop that right now. That is demonic. What in fuck? What do you do?

You're 22. No, I, I, I, if I'm 22, I'm probably gonna call my mom. I'm probably gonna use those, I'm probably gonna Skype my mom. If I'm 22, I'm gonna Skype my mom. A del is like, I can't pay this back, I don't have any money. And Camila is like, we can take it out of your pay. And she's like, there's a huge opportunity

to make a lot of money by coming to the Alps with us. And a Dell is like, no. Oh my God, it's like low-key blackmail. Yes. And to her credit, she stays. Like she posts all weekend about October fest, the family goes away, she's like, good riddance, good luck.

No, she's investing in her influencer potential. Her numbers are rocketing up. Okay. Do you know what a Steinholding competition is? Oh, can I guess? Yeah. Does it have something to do with beer and being upside down? It has something to do with beer, not upside down.

They fill up those giant, leader, glass, stines. And then you just hold it straight out away from your body for as long as possible. And whoever holds it the longest wins. Oh, so she enters herself in the sign holding competition. Does she win? No. But she does get a video of herself dropping the stine

and all of the beer splashing up into her face, and this video does extremely well on socials. Wow, oh my god, I should take some marketing tips from Adele. October Fest distracted her from her terrible home life with her terrible work family. Okay, she followed her gut. She followed her gut. The night before Camille and Florian return, they message her and are like, we heard that you were talking to the other Opares at the park. Hmm, whispered network, okay.

Adele's like, yeah, I was. And Camille's like, oh, did you get any gossip updates? And Adele's like, oh, no, sadly, I was just like asking to borrow something. Uh-huh. And Camille's like, oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense. Thanks. And she's like,

okay, great. But this weird text conversation after October fest reminds her of what the other Opares said about the Opares before her. Of course. If you wanted to know what happened to that girl, what do you do? I mean, I would probably get back in touch with this Opares and see if she had her info. Exactly. She goes back to the park the next day. She's like, do you have the intel for this O'Pare? And all the other O'Pare's are like, we don't have her phone number. She was here so briefly.

The only thing we know is her first name. Okay. What do you want to do? You've got only a first name. I mean, if there is an office at Che Camille in Florian or, or, oh my god, me like dating myself, I would see if I could look at Camille's phone. I'm like, is there an office? Is there a filing cabinet? No, I would see if I could look at her phone. Adele tries all of this. She tries the office. She tries the phone. She tries like searching

the first name of people who follow Camille on Instagram, right? This kind of thing. Classic things. She finds nothing. Finally, she's like, let me just go back to the Opares site. She goes back to the Opares site. She creates a fake family account. She finds several people with the same first name and the same qualifications that she had and she messages all of them. Brilliant, very smart, investigative. Okay. Two days later, one of the messages her back. Holy shit. She's like, can we talk on the phone?

Sister Nanny calls her and is like, yeah, yeah, I had an awful experience working for them. I'm the one that started Camille's yoga account. I'm the one that did the bookkeeping. I did the Pinterest board with the aesthetics. And then when I asked for extra, they said no. Oh my God. Oh my God. She's like, so I quit and left. Oh, I love, I love a ghost writing tale. Actually, one of my first, my, the first byline I was ever proud of in my entire life was a piece from Marie Claire about the women

who ghost right for pennies for influencers. And back then, when this piece came out, it was like shocking that influencers did not run their own accounts or write their own blogs. So ever, I know, an innocent era. Yeah, but yeah, wow. And this is shocking for Adele. She's like, I didn't know

that anyone goes through these influencer accounts until I was taking these photos. I didn't realize other people were taking the photos. Of course. But she's like, I don't really have enough to indict this couple yet. I'm like trapped in this weird indentured servitude. So she just like, kind of goes about her day, like waiting to figure out what to do. But that evening Camille is like, hey on Wednesday, like I know it's your day off and I know you're gonna be downtown and like taking photos, but could you stop by the post office for me and like pick up some like sponsor goods for me? And it does like, yeah of course, like I'm happy to pick it up. What is it? And she's like, it's six boxes of like, sports drinks.

It's six boxes of knives. It's liquid dev. It's, yeah, basically. And this Adele is like, that is so heavy. Like, this is not like run by the post office and pick up like a natural deodorant. This is six boxes of heavy sports drinks. Oh no, oh no.

Uh huh. She decides this is it. Like this is the last straw. She's sick of this. She's like, Europe's not what I wanted. I'm making so little money. Right. But the problem is she can't leave the family

and not leave Germany. Like her visa is a work visa. Sure. So do you wanna go home? And if so, like, how do you get out of it? Like, how do you explain to Camille and Florian? I would fake the death of a family member. Okay, great plan, lover.

Okay. Germany's a little scary. Germany's not like Southern Europe, where they'll kinda like- Where they're like- Where they're like, who are you? Stay forever. For sure. Have a child, help our birth rates.

Yeah. Totally. Totally. But I would like fudge, I would fudge my stay a little bit. Like there's some wiggle room there visa wise. I would try to get like a good week long vacation out of it and then pop on back to to the US of A and re-strategize That's what I would do. What Adele does is she Books a ticket home. She waits for a day that Camille and Florian are totally in charge of the kids and then she goes the country of Germany

She goes Germany. Oh, I fucking love that. She gets on the plane. She's like I'm going home Fuck these people. She's like, I'm going home, fuck these people. She's looking at her Instagram and she realizes she still has access to Camille's account. Oh! Do you sabotage her? Hmm. Suddly.

Adele does not subtly sabotage her. She clicks new post. Oh my god. She scrolls through the photos on her phone at the house. does not subtly sabotage her. She clicks new post. Oh my God. She scrolls through the photos on her phone of the house. She picks some of the kitchen being the disaster. The kids like in the messy bedroom. She edits all of this into Camille's like preferred aesthetic.

Yes. She captions it. Life is messier than we pretend. Oh, I love that. Oh, that is good. She hits post. Turns her phone on airplane mode takes off. Duh, that is divine. Well done, Adele. I have to give you props. We are almost at the end. How do you feel whose side are you on? Oh, well, now I'm on the anti-hero side because because we can't well, I won most certainly by default. I'm on a deli side. I feel like

her behavior is a little more excusable. Just due to like youthful hubris, if nothing else. And I got to love a clever revenge plot, so we stand. She lands. Her phone is blowing up. Obviously, she has six missed calls from Camille. She has a bunch of texts. She's like, I feel vindicated, I did it. Yes.

She opens Instagram on her phone. The post has gone mega viral. Of course. Everyone loves it. Oh, they're like, oh my god, you're so vulnerable. Oh my god, literally that was my exact next thought. I was about to be like, this is going to do wonders for her brand. Yes.

Everyone is like, you're so vulnerable, you're so brave. Thank you for sharing, can be all. Stop it. Every single day that week is posting more photos of the mess. And being like, I just wanted to shine a light on the everyday struggles of working mothers. Oh, I would watch, like, I would watch a The Founder-style biopic about the rise

of this woman's brand accident. It's like the accident of the invention of the sandwich. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Exactly. Just rocking to the sky. Um, do you have any final feelings before I give you my final updates? I just thank you so much for sharing this with me.

This was the perfect story for me to hear because I thought I thought it was going to go really south. Mm-hmm. But it went, it went really, it went really south, but it went really east, and then it went back really west, and it's actually kind of a wholesome story about like expectations. Yeah.

The updates I have for you are that Adele saw what it takes to be an influencer and decided, I do not want that. That's an important lesson to learn in 2013. Yeah, and so after a couple of years in the US, she like, established a little career and found a way to move back to Europe. So she's living in Europe happily.

Oh my god. A growth narrative. A growth narrative. The final update I have on Camille and Florian is that they run a psychedelic meditation retreat in the Alps. That doesn't surprise me one tiny little fucking bit where you gather mushrooms and make tea to heal your inner child. No, now I want to go. I want to go. This meditation retreat does not offer child care.

Oh, sure. That tracks. I feel like everyone benefited from this hijinks. Everyone. Everyone can win sometimes. Yeah, and that, if anything, disproves zero-sum bias. Wow! Look at that loop. Amanda, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you. Oh, it was an honor and a pledge.

I never want to leave. I never want to leave. I never want to leave. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip, joy to share with us, email us at normalgossipatifector.com or you can leave us a voice mail at 267mangossip. If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgawSit.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and KickPock at NormalGaSit. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at McKinneyPelcy.

This podcast was produced at Alex Sujong-Laflan. Justin Ellis is defectors' project editor. Death for Wang and John Poon are defectors' business guys. Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief. Jay Polviera is our associate producer. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Power of Jacobi designed our show art. Thank you to Catherine Xu for your help on this episode.

Thanks to the rest of the de facto herfdas, de facto her media is a collectively owned of the private-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of RadioCobia. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm Madison Campbell, and remember, you did not hear this from me. You did not hear this from me.