Normal Gossip - Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

In today's bonus episode, Rachelle and Kelsey discuss the cinematic experience that is 2015's The Spirit of Christmas. Warning: we could not stop talking about sex and drugs in this episode, maybe because the movie is so chaste.Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here!Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here!Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se’era, Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Se’era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

This is it. We are running out of time to reach our goal of 2024 donors before the end of the year. The money that you donate, the funds you're able to share, are crucial to keeping our network running and ensuring that you get to listen to normal gossip and all of the other fantastic shows on Radiotopia. I got to spend an evening recently with Nate DeMeo, the host of The Memory Palace, which is a beautiful show that is also part of Radiotopia. He was in my city promoting his new book, also called The Memory Palace, and he started talking about Radiotopia. It was the 90s and the late 90s and, know we were like concerned and it turns out for

good reason we're not selling out you know. I'm a member of Radio-Topia in part because it's a collective of independent artists and like I learned in like 1996 that that was the way to be. To find a place that does that has been amazing. I felt so proud to be a colleague of his and to be part of this collective that literally puts its money where its mouth is when it comes to supporting independent creators. I understand there is so much going on in the world right now. It's a tough time for independent media and podcasts, for people who want to have control over their intellectual property, over their business decisions, and

over their creative projects. Radiotopia is a place where that's possible, but only with your help. This community of incredible creators wouldn't exist without listeners like you. Every dollar counts, and it really all adds up, so whatever you're able to give will make a huge difference. As a token of our gratitude, when you donate today, you'll also get access to the list of our favorite things, curated by us and all of the producers in the network. I included something that I truly cannot live without. So head on over to radiotopia.fm slash donate to donate today. Thank you so much. Hi, Rachel Hansen here. If you missed last week's episode of normal gossip,

please go back and listen because spoiler alert, I have been crowned America's next top gossip queen. I wanted to say a very, very heartfelt thank you to all the listeners who have been so generous and so excited about the next phase of this show that we all love so much. We here at the Normal Gossip team really appreciate it. So much so that we thought maybe y'all might like to have a little holiday bonus episode as a treat. Before we get to your present though, I just wanted to say that I am so, so, so, so, so excited to start working on season eight of Normal Gossip, which will come out this spring, but I need your help. We are looking for gossip.

You can email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail on our hotline at 2679Gossip. Some gossip that I am dying to receive, real estate gossip. Gossip that is secretly a romance novel, service industry gossip and fandom gossip, but truly anything you have that you think might be a fit, please send it over. If you have ever in your life thought, maybe the story might work for normal gossip, send it please. I will work with you on

anonymization, and if it turns out to be too hard to anonymize, well, I still want to read it. Okay, now for your present. As many of y'all know, we put out an extra episode for our subscribers once a month. For December's episode, we tried something just a little bit different. I made Kelsey watch the 2015 Lifetime original movie, The Spirit of Christmas, and we just gapped about it for an hour. As literally anyone in my life will tell you,

I'm obsessed with this movie. And I think in my heart, Kelsey, forever. What more could you want? Happy holidays. [♪ music playing, bell ringing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, music playing, music playing, bell ringing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music [♪ theme music playing. Bell ringing. Hello! I'm so excited for this episode. I'm also really excited. We have a special little holiday treat. I hope that everyone did their homework. If you haven't done your homework, the homework was to watch The Spirit of Christmas.

So, I guess guess fucking spoiler alert. It came out in 2015. You've had a decade. You've had a decade. But you know, it is available on Amazon Prime and Apple Plus to rent. So it's not too late to watch this and then come back. Anyway, we're going to discuss this. Rachel, how the fuck did you find this movie? Why are we here? This movie has been in my life for at least the past four years minimum, possibly more than that. Okay. What I think happened is, do you remember back around like 2017 when Buzzfeed would

do big list of like the craziest Christmas movies you should watch? I think this was on there. And I think that at the time, this movie was on Netflix. And so I was like, OK, cool, I don't have to buy anything. I'll watch this movie. And then I watched it with my roommate at the time, and I was immediately obsessed. And then every single year, I brought this movie up to other friends being like,

have you seen The Spirit of Christmas? And they're obviously like, no. What the fuck is that? So it has become an annual tradition where every single year, I force at least one of my friends to watch this movie with me. And this year, it's me. And this year, it was you.

One thing that I think is really important to note here is that this year, you have forced me to consume two pieces of culture. The first was James Baldwin's Giovanni's Room, which is a beautiful piece of art. Put it in the fucking met, it slaps. The second is the Spirit of Christmas. And the thing is, both of those are annual traditions for me. I reread Giovanni's Room every single year around this time. And I also watch this movie every single year.

So you're really hitting the Rachel Hampton... Yeah. I'm in the Rachel Hampton cultural experience class. Exactly. We're on Rachel time, as my friends call it. Wow. I love Rachel time. I'm so happy to be here.

You told me to go into this movie, not Googling it, no information. So the only thing I knew about it before putting it on was that you had, in an effort to try and help me understand if I had seen it or not, you had mentioned it's about a ghost. The spirit is a ghost. And I was like, okay, no, I haven't seen that and two, I very much want to. Beautiful. Um, I really want to hear your thoughts, but I feel like we should do a brief recap of what happens in this movie.

I don't think we're going to be able to be brief because I have a lot of notes. Let's do the longest recap ever. This is a recap pod now. So we open. Let's start with that opening scene. Yeah. All right. So it's snowy. It's clearly like what fucking Michigan or something. I don't know. We're in the woods and we're also in the past. Our main, I would say he's the main character, even though he's not like the protagonist, our main character, giant man walking through the snow. He's like looking at a white inn where he

can see like a woman embracing a man on the like little patio veranda situation. And he's like clearly upset by this because there are no subtleties in this movie at all. Not at all. And then he pulls out a pocket watch out of his pocket that looks to have been made of like, I don't know, plastic. And he looks at that and then he is hit in the back of the head. The screen goes dark and we flash to the present day. So tell me how you felt after that scene. The first thing I did was Google what year did this movie come out? Everything about

it is insane. This man has the most, like, 2010s face I've ever seen in my life. Right? He has iPhone face. And he also has that haircut that now is a little flashy, but in 2015 was the hipster haircut. And the outfit that he's wearing, which is like this vest with a little shirt under it and boots, is giving Williamsburg

hipster. Like, so it's really confusing as to where we are in time, but I'm buckled the fuck in. It's also like, if you had put this man in a suit that was not made out of polyester, it would be like immediately apparent that he is not from the present. But because everything that everyone in the past is wearing looks like it came from Kohl's, it makes it feel like you have no idea where you are or what time it is. And that's fun. It is. It really, it keeps you guessing.

It keeps the girlies on their feet. And speaking of girlies, we have to talk about our main girlie of this movie, whose name is Kate. Kate. Kate. Kate. And Kate, Kate's a lawyer. And lawyering is her entire life. Yeah.

In the first scene where we're introduced to her. This scene rules, to be honest. I love this scene. It's such a good scene. She's at dinner, she's talking to this guy, and he's like, you know, you're really great, you're so ambitious, but like, I just feel like something's missing. And she's like, yeah, so true.

So true. Everyone I date knows nothing about me. My ex called me his ghost girl. Like, and then at the end, she's like, can I have your dessert? And she takes this creme brulee and she's like, yeah, I didn't want to be here anyway. It's perfect. Okay, so the plot that we're given right after she breaks up with his boyfriend is deranged.

The plot is like she's a lawyer, unclear what kind of law. I think property law. Property law? Okay, and her boss is like a rich lady died, she had no heirs, she had this fancy inn, and we don't want to pay taxes on it, so it has to be sold by the end of the year, which is in three weeks. Yes. Already insane. Also, is that how taxes work?

Is that real? I don't think so. One. Two, he's like, it goes to the trust and the whole point of having a trust is to evade taxes. So it's like, I don't really believe that this is like a premise that exists at all, but whatever, it works. Works for me. So she drives her Jeep Cherokee out to this like...

Like she's not a girl who has a Jeep Cherokee. No, she's not a girl who has a Jeep Cherokee. No, she's not. Yeah, so she drives her Jeep Cherokee out to this huge house, and it's beautiful. Also, this movie is supposed to take place, like, somewhere in snowy United States. I think it's supposed to be like New Hampshire, Vermont, because at some point he's like, you've got to come back to Boston.

And it's clear that she like drove. Yeah. But whatever. One problem that I have is that, and you may also have this problem, is that I spent my whole childhood watching movies about Christmas in the Northeast and I thought it was going to fucking snow here. Yeah. And it doesn't usually.

That's because of climate change. I know and I want it. Same. Speaking of James Baldwin, I have been reading Another Country. We've both been reading Another Country. And there's a scene that takes place like right around the, like near Thanksgiving.

And the character is thinking about, oh, it's snowing again, like it's all on the ground. It's cold. It's cold. And they're like, we're leading up to Thanksgiving. And I read that and just like had one of those Raven Baxter moments where I was just like, oh, fucking used to snow before Thanksgiving. But in the mythical land of 2015, New Hampshire, Vermont,

wherever the fuck we are, it's snowing. It's snowing hard. It's snowing like feet of snow on the ground. Like there's so much snow, which is maybe why she has to have a Jeep Cherokee. Unclear, unclear. But she arrives at this inn, and the innkeeper,

whose name is escaping me at the moment, but does end up becoming kind of an important tertiary character at some point. But the innkeeper is like, oh, I'm leaving. And ask her, where are you staying while you're figuring out where to sell the inn? And Kate's like, it's an inn. I'm staying here.

Which, first off is insane to assume that you're just gonna stay at an inn. Like, that's what you have to pay for things. Maybe email someone to confirm? As a writer, one of my favorite things to recognize in dialogue is where someone has poked a hole in the plot, and then instead of resolving the hole in the plot, they just have one character stay a line. So in this case, the question is she's like, why aren't there people here?

Wouldn't this be the inn's most busy season? And then he's like, yes, but we are never open. Why aren't there people here? Wouldn't this be the inn's most busy season?" And then he's like, yes, but we are never open. And it's like, what? That doesn't act. What? Yes. Yes.

They are never open during the 12 days of Christmas, which do I know when those start? I'm assuming it's 12 days before Christmas, but does it include the day after Christmas? I don't fucking know. Partridge in the pear tree? Hmm? Partridge in a pear tree? Yeah, exactly. But he's like, we're never open during the 12 days of Christmas, so no one can stay here. And Kate's like, I'm a hardened lawyer from the city. I'm fucking staying here. And he's like, there's a ghost. I wouldn't recommend staying here. And she's like, fuck your ghost. Rachel, do you believe in ghosts? Yes. Rachel, do you believe in ghosts? Yes. Okay, me too.

And I'm like, if someone who lived in a house told me I couldn't stay there because there was a ghost there, I would be like, is the ghost nice? Correct. And then if they said no, I would be like, cool, I'm not staying here. That's not my business. But our girl has like true like first girl dead in a horror movie brain where she is like, well, I'm actually different because I'm a girl boss and ghosts can't hurt girl bosses.

Yeah, I think we were both raised to Christian to not believe in ghosts and demons. I'm just like, you know what? I wish not to fuck with it. I don't want it near me. Don't bring it near me. I have a respectful distance. It's like the ocean. I respect her. I don't want to be near her. Yeah.

I will watch from a distance. So I would also not stay in a haunted hotel, but Kate does not believe in ghosts and she is too logical and too lawyerly to believe in ghosts. So she stays at this inn overnight and surprise, surprise, there's a fucking ghost. Okay, also more terrifying than a ghost, right? Because I know what you're thinking if you haven't seen this movie, you're thinking like, uh, maybe he's a little blurry. Exactly.

Maybe he's like transparent. Maybe he has no legs. Maybe his body, you can't touch it, right? Like typical little blurry. Exactly. Maybe he's like transparent. Maybe he has no legs. Maybe his body, you can't touch it, right? Like typical depictions of ghosts. No. What this actually is, is a full man who is fully embodied, who is giant, and from 1920, who is just in the same house as you.

Like in some ways that's scarier than a ghost. I'm like, I don't know. Absolutely not. Oh, being trapped in a random house in New Hampshire, Vermont, Michigan, with a white man from the 1920s who's absolutely huge. With a fashe haircut? With a fashe haircut? No, exactly. Exactly. And the thing is, Kate does respond correctly to this and that she immediately calls the police.

And she's like, there's a strange man. And she has a weird knife. Yeah, where did that come from? I don't know. It was a weird knife. But the police comes and he's like, well, there's no one here and also this inn is famously haunted. Why are you staying here? And she's like, babe, there's no one here, and also this inn is famously haunted, why are you staying here?

And she's like, babe, I don't care about the ghost. There is a corporeal man in this fucking inn with a fast haircut, save me! And the police is like, just turn on your alarm. I don't see him. Yeah, yeah. Make sure your alarm's on. And she's like, all right, well, fuck the police. She doesn't get that far, but this on your alarm. I don't see him. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure your alarm's on. And she's like, all right, well, fuck the police. She doesn't get that far. But she

was kind of an ACAB movie. It kind of is an ACAB movie in that she calls the police. They do not help her and then they leave. Yes. But another thing that you've skipped over at some point during this before she calls the police, he picks her up, over his shoulder, carries her outside and sets her down. And as he's doing this, the producers, God bless them, give us a shot from behind this man, where he is like, I don't know, this man played fucking hockey or something, like he is caked up, like this man has a giant ass.

You're so right, I actually did forget about the fact that my man has giant cakes. He is cake the fuck up. He's huge. And he carries her outside like she's nothing and sets her down. And in that scene, there is not a hint of flirting. And I'm like, come on, man. No. And it's like, you can tell where we're going. It's gonna be flirty at one point. I do appreciate that it was clearly enemies at first. There was not a single hint of sexual tension at first. It was just like, this is a ghost made into a man who is trying to get me out of this

inn, and I shan't be leaving because I need to sell this inn. And meanwhile, the ghost is like, I just want to eat food. This is like an incredible touch that this movie has. In this one scene, I was like pumping my fist. I was like, let's fucking go. Because he's eating an apple with a knife, right? Like slicing pieces of an apple off to put into his mouth with like a giant bowie knife.

Yes. And he's like, I'm real. And she's like, well, I don't think he's real. And he's like, well, what is real? And then she touches him and it's clear that he's not going to disappear. And then at some point, someone says the phrase, which I have written in all caps in my notes, all his senses are heightened upon his return. Yes, the innkeeper comes back.

She calls the innkeeper, Kate calls the innkeeper and is like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Who is this man? And the innkeeper who has been keeping the inn for it seems like his entire life. Yeah, like it's giving Sam and Frodo. Yes. But so the innkeeper comes back and is just like, yeah, so this is why I told you to leave. He becomes corporeal every 12 days of Christmas for 12 days.

And when he comes back, his senses are heightened. So all he wants to do is eat food. And I was like, does he want to fuck? Yeah, that's exactly what I was like. The thing is, there are many, many senses and many kinds of eating, even. I was going to say, there's so many kinds of eating that could be done when your senses are hiding.

Yeah. But he just wants an apple at this point in time. Yeah. I also have a note here that's in all caps that says they should make porn like this. You texted me that. Because at this point I was like, all of the scripting in this scene is like, oh, they're going to fuck. And then you look at the timestamp and it's like, no.

There's a whole hour and 15 minutes left of this movie. And also it's like cable, right? Like they're not gonna fuck. Correct. But you're right. This is giving like made for women porn. So there's an opportunity out there for someone. We're taking investors to script. Sharks, I'm coming to you.

Hello sharks. Hihihi. ["Spring Day"] So, we kind of have a sense of what's going on, and Kate is like, okay, I need to sell this house. Yes. I can't sell this house with this man in here. But also, why are you here? Why do you keep coming back?

Why are you only here for 12 days out of the year? She's just asking questions. She's just asking questions. She's just asking questions. And the ghost, Daniel, is like, I don't ask these questions. I just want to live my peaceful 12 days and eat as many apples as possible. He's on vacation, baby. He's like, this is not my problem.

This is your problem. And she's like, well, I need to do my job and get the fuck out of here. So I'm going to go investigation mode and we're going to figure out why the fuck you're still here. And then we're going to get you to the other side. Yes. As in heaven or hell. Or hell. Somewhere.

Purgatory. I mean, he's in Purgatory, right? Yeah. Purgatory is the end, kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Nice Purgatory, right? Yeah, Purgatory is the inn, kind of. Yeah. Nice Purgatory. Beautiful. Very aesthetic. Yeah. There's also like a whole problem, which is that for the first like 20 minutes of the

movie, it's really unclear what time period he comes from. Like because the costuming is so bad, and he looks like a 2016 caked up hipster. It's like, are you from the 1700s? When were you alive? Yes. Yes. Clearly someone asked this in a writer's room because the next scene we get is her asking him questions and him being like, oh, the Volstead Act.

I was bootlegging liquor into America. It's like, okay, all right, prohibition. Now we know where we are. I love that. Thank you. Yes, yes, yes. I appreciated how much of a star term that prohibition plays in this story. It's really all about how bad prohibition was.

It's like partly about how bad prohibition was, but it's also like kind of moralistic and then it's like against crime, right? Like it's like he shouldn't be doing these crimes is like a major part of this. And I'm like, I'm sorry. One funny joke he keeps making is that whenever someone says the word bootleg, he's like, I prefer the term rum runner. And I'm like, sorry, but being a rum runner is hot. Like you're doing a crime, but it's a hot crime that means we have parties at our house.

So I'm like, you guys are all confused. Oh. You need to be more pro this man. You need to be more supportive. Listen, Kelsey, one of my all time favorite fan fictions takes place in Prohibition and it's a supernatural fan fiction. God. And Jinson Ackles is obviously a rum runner.

And I'm like, oh, that's hot! Crimes for alcohol? It is hot. The thing is, crimes for good are good. Robin Hood, it's giving Robin Hood. Bingo. It's also like, yeah, the whole thing with prohibition was that rich people were still drinking and no one else was. So it's like actually doing like a little absent as a treat is good. Upcharging rich people

for alcohol. Good. Congrats, babe. We love you. So Daniel, at this point, I'm like, even though you're a white man with a fast haircut, I'm on your side. Yeah. But also, like, do you, I'm like, do you want to be resolved? Do you want to keep coming back here year after year? Do you wish to go on to the beyond? It seems like he's kind of tired of this shit, which makes sense, it's been like a hundred years. Yeah, there's like another flashback here

where it shows us like, he's like talking to his fiancee in the past. Her name is Lily. And they're like, first off, they're like alone in the inn kissing in presumably 1919, which I'm like, that doesn't seem real to me at all. Not allowed. She also said something to him where she's like, the inn is perfect. It's part of why I fell in love with you. And I'm like, okay, so she wants your money, my dude. Like there are a lot of problems here with this relationship. But the whole time they're in this flashback, it's like, okay, am I the viewer supposed to believe that he wants to be free so that he can be with Lily? Am I supposed to believe that he doesn't want to

be free so that he can remember these memories? Like what does this man want? And the answer is it doesn't matter. It really doesn't because all we care about is what Kate wants, which is to sell the motherfucking in. Yes. So our girl goes detective mode. She's researching, Googling, presumably going to to the library, I think, at some point.

Like, there's some real, I'm looking at microfiche content. Yes, yes. There's a scene where he makes a lot of cocktails. Yes. Because someone, question mark, challenges his honor. And then he's like, I'm the best bartender that's ever lived. Okay, wait, yeah, let best bartender that's ever lived. Okay, wait, yeah, let's rewind, let's rewind,

because there's like, there's a side plot where apparently no one has ever seen Daniel, the ghost, other than the innkeeper, who doesn't really hang out with him. So he's just left alone for 12 days. To eat apples. But then the water goes out in town or some shit, and a local owner of a bar comes by and is like,

you guys have a bar at the hotel. Let me have my party here. Exactly. And Daniel's like, no one's allowed here. Fuck you. And the bartender lady, who also seems to have a little bit of a flirtation ship with the innkeeper, big time is just like, who is that? And Kate's like, he's like a cousin of the family or whatever. He's just like a little he's a little extra. Yeah. And then he's the bartender's lady is like, I make the best cocktail in town.

And Daniel's like, I bet you fucking don't. And the thing is, Daniel clearly is using egg whites in his whiskey sour. Like, he's making some real drink. He's a run runner. He clearly knows his alcohol. Also, like, every drink he makes in the scene where he's making drinks is like almost clear. And it's like, okay, I do believe that you're a good bartender actually, because these are straight liquor.

I'm scared to drink this drink. He's like, I need Fernette. And it's like, okay, man, whatever babe. Sure. Whatever you fucking need, my guy. And so this turns into like a party at the inn. And I guess Daniel is reminded that being around people is good. And Kate is also figuring out that Daniel is hot.

There's this scene where she's wandering around the house and stumbles upon him taking his shirt off. And he's jacked. Yeah, he's jacked. Read her he's jacked. And then she just watches him iron his shirt. And I'm like, get out of his room, you're being rude. But I also was like, ooh.

And at this moment I was like, this is a porn. This is leading to a very clear resolution. It looks like it is, but it's not. It's not. This whole movie gives the vibe of like, OK, imagine your friend is dating a really hot, giant man. I can imagine this. Who behaves like completely irrationally. Yes. is dating a really hot, giant man. I can imagine this.

Who behaves, like, completely irrationally. Yes. And is always, like, kind of has a hot temper, and everyone's like, what's up with this guy? It's like, if that reality existed, and then this woman was like, what's a version of that reality that would explain his behavior that would allow me to keep dating him? Oh, it's that he's a ghost actually, and his wife is dead,

and that's why he's misbehaving. It's like, oh, this is a man from the 1920s. He's not used to women being able to drive. He's not used to women having rights. He's just really confused as to why this woman is allowed to be a barrister. Yeah. And it's... It is like every single romance novel where you're like,

why is this man so possessive and angry? And then you're like, oh, like, I don't know. He watched his brother get shot or some shit. Like he has trauma. It's his culture. Yeah. Yeah. So we find out that it is in fact Daniel's culture to be a little bit domineering, but it's okay because Kate, well, Kate kind of likes it.

She likes it. She likes it. Which I'm going to be honest, if a tall, beefy man who was caked up like that. Picked you up over his shoulder and carried you outside. I'm also like, is he misogynist? Because he seems to really value Kate as a human being, which is more than some men in 2024. Listening and learning are important character traits in a man.

And this man is like at some point in the movie, I don't remember when this is, at some point in the movie he says like, women being so forward is very off putting to me, right? Like them asking you out is very off putting to me, but also I like it and wish I had it. And it's like, yes, okay, so this is like, this is the fantasy, right? Is that I can change him. Exactly. He just needs new information and he'll be a different man. Yeah.

But unfortunately, the new information he gets while he's being a bartender is that his wife died, which like, obviously she died, but that also she was pregnant. Pregnant. And that the baby died. Yes. And all of this is made more complicated by the fact that his wife married his brother after he died. And his brother, which we see through flashbacks, is very disapproving of his rum running. And not hot. Is not hot at all. Like, they do not look like brothers.

No. I mean, they do, but in that way where you're just like, oh, that's unfortunate. Yeah. So the brother's very clearly a villain, and importantly, the brother, we realize through these flashbacks, is the person that Daniel saw on the veranda with his fiancee right before he got hit over the head.

Which is an alibi. So true, it is an alibi. So we are pretty sure that he is not killed by his brother to get with his fiance. Yes, Lily. To be with Lily. Yes. So at this point in the movie, it's like, it's a lovely night, and they're bartending, and the bartender from town is like, what if we had our annual town Christmas party here?

And Kate's like, there's no way that'll happen. And Daniel's like, let's fucking go! He got a taste of partying, and he's like, oh yeah, I miss this. This is definitely one of those things that I actually did find believable in this movie, where I's like, oh yeah, I miss this. This is definitely one of those things that I actually did find believable in this movie, where I'm like, oh, you're telling me the rum runner wants to have a rager at his house? What a surprise.

It's like, that is well within character. To be like, oh, now that I've had three cocktails and remembered how much I love giving other people cocktails, I want to do more of that. It's like, yeah, that was your job. Now that I've had three of the strongest cocktails any of you have ever had in your entire life, because I'm mixing fucking prohibition era cocktails,

like, those are Great Depression cocktails. Like, times were hard. Yes, Great Depression cocktails were like, literally they were drinking Absinthe that made you hallucinate. Like, it was a different time. It was not like, oh, I'm doing my four, you know, adorable little cocktails that have six ingredients. It was like, we've poured gin into this cup. Here you go.

Here you go, babe. Yeah, no, people were literally drinking, like, shit that would kill them because it had minor amounts of alcohol in it because of prohibition, which I learned from the book Water for Elephants, which I read many times as a child. (*LAUGHTER*) Rachel!

(*LAUGHTER*) Prohibition plays a really big part in that story as well. You know what I'm learning here is that you love prohibition. Like you... Is this because you're from Chicago? Maybe. I mean, I love clear stakes and prohibition is really... The stakes are so clear.

They are really clear. It's like here is an illicit substance that everyone wants that was previously legal. Like, it's so rare to go backwards in such a strong way on a substance like that, where it's like you have an entire society... Exactly. Could you imagine if tomorrow the government was like, actually alcohol is banned? You create such a massive market, which of course people flood. It's a perfect time to honestly be gay, do crimes. Literally.

It's also like, okay, alcohol is banned and also like 60% of the population has trauma from World War I. Right? Also, everyone's a little bit of an alcoholic. Yeah, exactly. It's like you... This is a note that I have highlighted in my document, which is, shouldn't this man smoke? You're right. He should. Why doesn't he smoke? He smokes nothing the whole movie. And I'm like,

you're telling me a 1919 rum runner whose senses are heightened, whose senses are heightened. Isn't just going to be chain smoking cigarettes. Like, he absolutely is. But there's room for that here. There's not enough room. He doesn't have a little tobacco pipe. This was before VAPES, so people had forgotten that tobacco was hot. Imagine giving this ghost to VAPE. (*both laugh*)

Like, that would be a scene in 2024. This movie was made in 2024. They'd be like, you have to stop smoking these cigarettes inside. They're worse for you have this. And he's like, what is that? What is that? Imagine. I mean, I'm sure they had weed back then, but it was weak as fuck.

So yeah, imagine giving him a 10 milligram gummy and being like good luck, babe Oh, you want to eat more out there in the snow doing snow? Huge news. I wrote a whole book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, and I'm so, so proud of it. It's about how we use gossip. It's about Britney Spears and West Elm Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. And it's so, so fun. And I think it's really good. It comes out February 11th in hardback and a sexy audio book, which I read. You can buy it wherever you get books. You can go to kelseymckinneybook.com to see all the retailers where you could possibly

buy a book from and to buy tickets for the upcoming book tour, which will be really fun and really exciting. That's kelseymckinneybook.com. One of these nights, well, they have a fight because that's important. And then she like gets scared of something. Yes. At some point in here. Something's in the house that's not Daniel. She's like, there are whispers. Do you hear the whispers? And I'm like, at this point, I'm like, okay, is this a horror movie? Right? Like, are we actually going to turn? That could be fun. And then he Like, are we actually going to turn? That could be fun. And then he decides that he's actually going to sleep in her room with her, except he doesn't

sleep because he's a ghost. So he sits in her room and they do not kiss. No, it's an edging movie, which again, porn. But yeah, he sleeps in her room, like facing away from her. And she's like, I feel so safe and protected. And I'm like, now kiss. Kiss. Kiss. Kiss. Kiss.

But they don't kiss. They don't. But there's this open mystery of like, what else is in the house? Because at first she thinks that it's him. Like something gets knocked off a wall or like she, a door gets closed really loud. Like, something scary happens,

and she thinks that Daniel's fucking with her, because they had just had this big fight. And he's like, no. He's like, I wouldn't do that to you. I would never do that to you. And she's like, wow. Am I starting to have feelings for this ghost that's only around 12 days out of the year?

She clearly is. You know, the thing is, this movie makes a whole thing about about like, well, you couldn't possibly be in love with a ghost that's only there 12 days out of the year. And I'm like, for a girl boss, who's insane, it actually could be a perfect relationship to just have a man that is from 1920 that you're in love with that you only see for the 12 days leading up to Christmas. Like that's your two weeks of vacation. You spend them with him, 12 days leading up to Christmas. Like, that's your two weeks of vacation. You spend them with him, then you go back to work. I was literally just thinking about this

because I am single and dating right now, but dating someone actually takes so much fucking time. Especially in like a serious relationship. And you have to compromise so much. And despite the fact that I love romance novels and I love romance, as I get older and also busier, I'm just like, actually don't know if I want or have the time for all of that right now. Yes.

So, Abu who just shows up once a year... (*Abu laughs*) That sounds perfect. And he can't like fuck around while he's not with you because he's in like ghost purgatory. He's not E&M. Like he is only for you. It's beautiful.

So I could see Miss Girl being like, honestly, maybe I'll start taking off Christmas because there's a plot line that she never takes off Christmas because she doesn't give a fuck about holidays or her family. Because she's miserable. That's like the whole thing about these women is that they're miserable because they have jobs

and having jobs makes people miserable. And you know what? Correct, having jobs does make women miserable. Makes everyone miserable. Okay, so she goes back to Boston because a senator died? Question mark? Question mark, question mark, question mark. I don't know.

Her boss says she has to, so she does. Yeah, and her boss is also mad because Kate is very clearly the closer of this company, and they're like, why haven't you sold this fucking inn? Why haven't you figured this out? It's, oh, oh, she's there to get the inn appraised so they can sell it, but they can't get the appraiser in because Daniel keeps fucking shit up.

And so she's there like, it's really funny. And they're like, why haven't you gotten the in appraise? And Kate can't be like, well, there's a ghost that I'm thinking about fucking. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't usually go over well with your boss. No, it doesn't. It might here, but nothing. Yeah, I think I could tell Justin that I was busy because I was thinking about fucking a ghost. You probably could and it would probably be OK.

Yeah, he would be like, we'll talk about that later. No, he'd be like, well, I'm concerned for you. But as long as the ghost isn't evil, we'll talk later. But her boss, Katie's boss does not take this well. No. He's like, you need to be here forever or else you won't get a promotion. The promotion is like, it's unclear to me what it is or if she really wants it. Yeah.

Who cares? She is like clearly going back. There's never even really any question whether she's going back or not. Yeah. She goes back. And this is the moment where, like when she leaves, she promises to come back and Daniel very clearly is like, I hope you do. And then when she comes back, I'm like, oh, something has changed here. They are moving into falling in love territory.

Mm-hmm. Yes. They're crying, they're hugging. Yes, it's beautiful. And now we're approaching... Christmas party. The first thing I would like to discuss is her hair. Which is that, first off, she's wearing an insane outfit. She's wearing a, like, T-length, bright red dress that has a like sweetheart neckline, but also

a strap and a shoulder cap. So it's like just a deranged outfit. But what's more deranged is the whole movie, this woman has been wearing a wig with luscious hair, right? It looks great in every scene because it's a wig. In this scene, the wig has been twisted into a side ponytail. One. One side ponytail for a formal event. The side ponytail is like, it's like, it's crazy. It's like a fuck ass ponytail.

It's so bad. It like looks like a ponytail you give your friend like to fuck ass ponytail. It's so bad. It like looks like a ponytail you give your friend like to make her laugh. It's not real. It's the way kids hair looks after school. When you can tell they've been running around at recess and maybe redone their ponytail that you gave them at the beginning of the day. Like, it looks so bad. She's a beautiful girl. This outfit does nothing for her.

This hairstyle does even less. I would say it does, yeah, less than nothing. It's negative. It is a net negative hairstyle. And like, the problem is, is that this is the outfit she's supposed to be in for their first kiss. Yes. That like, they're gonna kiss in her room, only kiss.

Yeah. And she's like, but the whole time I was just like, what is up with her hair? No, fix it, fix it, Jesus. You're correct. Why is she doing that? The way I forgot about this fuck ass ponytail. It's so bad. And it's like, this is the most romantic scene in the movie because it's a Christmas party. Daniel and Kate are dancing, the innkeeper and the bartender

are dancing. Like the innkeeper and Daniel are talking about Kate and he's like, I really like her. And you look at her and she's wearing this stupid ponytail and you're like, Motherfucker. It's so bad. This is also one of those where it's like, you know what? I now believe that this character has no friends. Seeing this ponytail, I'm like, I 100% believe it. You have no friends because no friend of yours would allow you to wear your hair like that to fuck a ghost.

That's not, it's wrong. No, no. Also, like men of the 1920s cannot appreciate side ponytails. That was only fashionable from 1980 to 1984. I'm like, you probably look like a little girl to him. Like, stop this. Stop it. Yeah, so that was terrible. But it is a cute scene.

You can see that they're really starting to feel each other and thinking about the logistics of making this work, because they haven't figured out what exactly happened. Like, all Daniel knows is that his fiancee maybe betrayed him. Maybe. For reasons that don't really make sense. By now he knows that she didn't because Kate finds a birth certificate for the baby that's like, has his name on it.

Which is also insane for other reasons, because it's like if you're pretending to be married to someone's brother in order to hide the fact that you were having sex before marriage, you would put your husband's name on the birth certificate of that baby even if it was his brother's. Like that's not… Clearly no one was paying attention here. They were like, mm, well... Whatever.

She needs to find out, so we're gonna make this easy for her. Yeah, of course. So, Daniel's like, do I want to go into the great beyond to be with Lily, my fiance, or do I want to be with Kate? And this becomes the central tension, where Kate is like, I want you to be happy, but also I want you to stay with me. And then spooky shit starts happening at the party.

Spooky. This is the spookiest scene. It's so weird. This whole scene is so strange. Describe it. Tell me what happens. Okay. Kate is like dancing with someone, not our business. And he's like watching her dance when he like sees Lily. Yes. Like he can like see his former wife in the room and like we're getting shots that show us that like other people can't see her, right?

Like only he can see her. She is actually kind of wearing an appropriate gown. Like she's wearing, she looks different than everyone else. And he can basically see the replay of like, it's like watching a replay back in a sports game. It's like he could see the replay of what was happening inside the party the night that he was killed. And he follows her outside.

His brother is also there. They're talking about how his brother's being like, I hate my brother because he like is a law breaker. Like I love cops. I don't know what this guy's problem is. He sucks. Yeah. And Billy keeps being like, no, I love him and I can change him. Like literally she's basically like, I can change him and he'll stop doing crimes eventually. And then he's like, only at this point does he realize that then his brother couldn't have killed him. Because you could see him on the porch the whole time. And then, at the party appears his cousin.

Dun dun dun, holding a bloody rock. Eugh! Whaa! Exactly. And there's a confrontation between the ghost of Lily, the ghost of the cousin, and Daniel, who is also ghost, and also Kate, who's not ghost. Yeah, it becomes kind of clear that both cousin and Lily were ghosts in this house the whole time.

And Daniel somehow didn't notice them for a hundred years, which I had questions. Are there different planes for ghosts? Like, how did they not interact with each other? And then also they're like trying to do this thing where they're like, it's a gift that Lily gave him. And I'm like, but what's the gift here, babes? Like, what?

Yeah, I think the gift is that she is protecting him from his cousin, who we find out killed him because the guy that Daniel was running rum for in Canada is just, like, evil. He gets killed because he tries to get out of the game. You're right. Daniel's like, I'm not doing rum running anymore. I'm going to be a good upstanding citizen.

And the thing is, people in charge of massive illegal operations do not like that. And so his cousin has to kill him. So in a way, his wife and his brother's obsession with the law killed him. Correct. If you think about it. If you think about it, it's ACAB all the way down.

It sure is. I'm not entirely sure what Lily's gift is. I think, like, him being stuck in this purgatory is somehow her gift to him. Like, she saved him somehow. I don't get it. I don't really get it either. All I know is that, like, Daniel and his cousin

have a conversation, and his cousin is like, -"Thank you for forgiving me." There's shit. -"Yeah, and then he disappears." And so he's released from the purgatory, and then Lily is like, -"Okay, deuces." And Daniel has to make a choice as to whether or not he is released from purgatory. And him and Kate spend, like, a night together. Do you think they fucked?

They don't fuck. They, like... I don't even think I know. According to the movie. I know. But also like, ah, what did they do all night? Well, I think this is the thing that makes me crazy about this scene is it's like at midnight, he's like going to turn back into a ghost or whatever. And so they kiss a little and then she goes to sleep on the couch and I'm like, that's crazy

I don't believe it if you're in love with someone and they're gonna disappear in two hours You should one stay awake and two fuck What are you doing? You don't have an opportunity for another year You also don't know if he's gonna come back next year because his storyline has been resolved. So, Kate wakes up the next morning and funnily enough, Daniel's not there, but also she receives a call from her boss

who's like, you know what? I have been under appreciating you. You do deserve vacation. It's insane. I'm so sorry that I yelled at you about closing the inn. And this has never happened. It's never happened. But I also was like, you know what?

I'm glad that they know your worth now because you stopped working for three days. Like the real moral of this story is to take your vacation days so that your work will appreciate. Actually, yes, it is. Take your vacation days so your work realizes how much work you're doing. So she takes her vacation days and she's like, OK, great. I'm going to get promoted to again, what, partner? I don't fucking know.

I don't know. I don't fucking know. But she's also like, she walks outside. It's a beautiful, snowy day. And she's like, Daniel's gone. I miss him. I guess I'll come back next year to see if he comes back."

Because again, we don't know... We don't know. -...what happened. But then... And something we haven't mentioned yet is that a lot of this movie relies on the concept of property lines for some reason. Like, Daniel can't leave the property.

Every single time he tries to leave, he like... Disappears and gets ported back in. Yeah. some reason, like, Daniel can't leave the property. Every single time he tries to leave, he, like... TITLE CREDITS Disappears and gets ported back in. This is a crazy thing about ghosts that I often think about is how, like, obsessed we are with property and as a connection to ghosts, where it's like, a ghost haunts this house. A ghost haunts this space. And it's like, what? Why?

Why does the ghost respect property lives? Also what happens if the house gets rezoned? None of this makes any sense to me. What are the laws of ghosts? None of it makes any sense. But we do know that the laws are broken and that Daniel is free because as Kate walks out into this beautiful snowy morning, who comes walking from the forest past the property line where he previously could not go,

but Daniel made like fully human in 2015. He's also wearing a hat. He's also wearing a stupid hat. It looks so bad. This is like, he looks the worst in the scene and I don't know why they did this to him. It makes no sense. He has been caked up and hot the entire time,

and now suddenly he's wearing a stupid hat. I guess he saw her fuck-ass ponytail and was like, you know what, vibes matched. He was like, this is a safe space. He's like, I found someone to match my freak. Jay says his senses are dampened. His ears are cold. Yeah, he's finally, I guess, feeling the cold.

I don't know. Wow. So he's wearing this stupid hat, and they run together, and they get together. And from here, I have finally, I guess, feeling the cold. I don't know. So he's wearing this stupid hat and they run together and they get together. And from here, I have a lot of questions. And I think that's why I love this movie so much. I have so many questions. It just, it ends and you're like, okay, so does he have a social security number now? How do you turn somebody who has been dead since like the early 1900s into a fully legal resident

of the United States? Like, she's a lawyer, so I'm sure she has some method. Will he age? Is he just this age forever? Does he have any skills? Clearly he can go across property lines. I guess he could be a bartender. I guess they're just gonna run the inn. Also, how are you gonna explain where this man came from to the people in your life? You're, yeah, you're not.

He's huge. He's huge. He says the wrong thing all the time because he is from 1920. He's never seen a woman vote before. Has he even seen a car? He doesn't know what football is. Like, he at one point calls a cell phone your special device.

Yes. Yes. And so this is the point in the movie where I'm like, I would watch a sequel. I would watch at least a 30 minute epilogue of what happens of introducing Daniel to the real world of 2015 because I am just like, I want to see him go to the DMV. I want to see him learn how to drive. I want to see him try a Cheeto. I want to see him try Sriracha. Like, I want to see him take a 10-milligram edible. I have so many questions.

Does he know what skinny girl liquor is? Like, I have so many questions. I want to show him the Real Housewives of New York. I want to show him the Real Housewives of New York. Like I want to show him the Titanic film. Yeah, there's so much that he doesn't know. And like, yeah, this is what I mean about this being like the whole movie feels like a delusion of a girl who just like wants an excuse to date a hot guy.

It's like there's no world in which this relationship works. Like just no, really no world. They have bad communication skills. They are like, they have not spoken to each other at all. He knows nothing about her. She's too busy to have friends. And I'm supposed to believe that she's just gonna be able to educate a man from the 1920s into like,

not getting arrested for doing like hate speech. Like there's no way, right? Like. No, literally. I'm like, what happens when this man sees a black person? Yeah, bad. Like, can you imagine being like, okay, so this is a man named Martin Luther King.

He had a dream. This is important for you to know. Yeah. So you know how during your lifetime, there were people who wanted black people to vote? Now, a black person was president. Now, there's a black president. And the thing is, this movie came out in 2015. Oh, yeah, there was a black president. So presumably, it's like 2014. Like, the thing is this movie came out in 2015. Oh, yeah, there was like 2014.

Like the president is black and then you immediately go into Trump after this. Like, I'm just like, what? Tell me about their life afterwards. Yeah, I'm also like, can you have a baby with someone? No, literally not old like fertile. I don't know. I'm like, does this work on Twilight rules

where like some random shit happens and suddenly you're allowed to have a baby? Like, does she even want children? That's a good point. Maybe she doesn't want children. Maybe she doesn't. Maybe the inn is their child. Also, they never fuck, not even once.

I know, I know. It's so funny because I described this movie as a movie where a woman fucks a ghost, but she actually doesn't fuck him once. But spiritually she does. She barely kisses him. She kisses him two times. It's really, it's a really chaste movie,

but somehow the vibe of it being the prelude to a porn movie really makes it feel far more... Yeah, I'm like, nothing happens, but like, the subtext is real. I think that's the thing that is the most implausible to me about the ending of the movie is this like moment where it's like the clock is ticking down and they're just like having this nice like hug. I'm like, you're telling me his senses are heightened.

He's about to go back to what he described as a waking nightmare for the rest of the year, and this man is not fucking? I'm like, I'm gonna be honest, that man has not felt the touch of a woman in a hundred years, and you're telling me he's not bricked the fuck up right now? Also, I do think this guy's kind of a good actor, to be honest. Like, I think his facial expressions are very good. And there's, like, a scene early on where she touches him

to, like, prove that he's real. Like, she touches his arm, and you can see, like, the actor's body, like, sees a little, and it's like, yeah, this man is, like, not gonna survive making out without having sex. Like, he's dying. He's dead. Maybe the issue is that they made out and he got a little too excited. Yeah. And they were like, okay, she's going to take a nap and then

we'll come back to this at a later date. Yeah. Oh, tragic. Tragic. Thank you for supporting Normal Gossip. Thank you for joining us on this journey through the spirit of Christmas. Rachel, thank you for coming out andossip. Thank you for joining us on this journey, uh, through the spirit of Christmas. Rachel, thank you, uh, for coming out and bringing us this horrific and beautiful film. ALL LAUGHING

I am so happy that I have gotten to take my personal mission of making as many people as possible watch this movie and somehow broaden that mission even further. It's beautiful, and I'm glad that you're achieving your dreams. Thanks so much. I'm going to fuck a ghost. Hell yeah. Okay, bye!

Bye! Thank you so much for listening to this extra special bonus episode of Normal Gossip. If you do want to subscribe, you can do that at supportnormalgossip.com. If you are already a subscriber, please keep your eyes open. We are sending you an email to get feedback on what you might like to see in this feed in the future. More insanity, more caked up ghosts, tell us.

This podcast was hosted by me, Rachel Hampton. Waked up ghost? Tell us. This podcast was hosted by me, Rachel Hampton. It was produced by Sierra Spragley-Ricks and J.Tol Viera. The co-creators and Dowager Queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Sujong-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defector's project editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's business guys. Alex Sujong-Loughlin is Defectors supervising producer.

Tom Lay is our Editor-in-Chief. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. And thank you to the rest of the Defectors staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned, subscriber-based media company, and Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm Rachel Hampton, and remember,

you did not hear this from me. ["I'm Not a Bad Boy"] Is Ryan Reynolds overrated? Is Lena Dunham set to make an epic comeback? How did Donald Trump go from reality star to president? Join us as we discuss all these questions and more on The Reheat, a podcast that reexamines the biggest celebrity scandals of the past from family feuds to murder mysteries. Find the reheat on Frequency Podcast Network or wherever you get your podcasts.