Normal Gossip - I Love All Corgis with Dr. Eve L. Ewing

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

One of you monsters made Dr. Eve L. Ewing cry by sending us a curséd PowerPoint presentation from a dog Facebook group. PSA: This is the third of ten episodes this season! Get your tickets to the Normal Gossip live tour here. Follow Eve on IG @eve.ewing. This is the New Yorker article we talked about by Rachel Aviv. You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs). Diana Moskovitz is our story editor. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jae Towle Vieira is our production assistant. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Credits recorded by Steven Sandberg.

Hey, quick favor, we are conducting an audience survey. We'd be really grateful if you could take just a few minutes and answer it. Please visit survey.prx.org slash gossip to take the survey today. That's survey.prx.org slash gossip. Thank you. Hi, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. In each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am so thrilled to have with me today Dr. Eve L. Ewing. Dr. Eve L. Ewing is a writer, scholar, and cultural organizer from Chicago. She is the award-winning author of four books, and she has written several projects for Marvel Comics. Ewing is an associate professor in the

Department of Race, Diaspora, and Indigeneity at the University of Chicago. Her work has been published in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, The New York Times, and many other places. And she's currently working on her next book, Original Sense, The Miseducation of Black and Native Children in the Construction of American Racism. Eve, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here. Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me. I am so excited to have you here. How are you doing today? I am thrilled. I am a frequent and enthused listener. Oh my god, that's so nice. A generally messy person, so I'm geeks to be here. I love that because then usually people have takes because they've been listening to other episodes. Oh yeah, I have

takes. Oh, great. Okay, well, let's start basic. And can you tell me what your relationship with gossip is? Yeah, okay. So here's my first hot take. Hell yeah. So I think that in a lot of episodes on the show, people are like, oh, gossip is like a progressive way to undermine social structures of power and like a way for people in vulnerable social positions to warn each other about scary and bad people. And I'm like, no, that is just like, to me, categorically, that is like just important information sharing. And when we call that gossip, we're stigmatizing it in a way, or, you know, belittling it or sidelining it. To me, if it is not like slightly petty, questionably sourced, ultimately inconsequential information, then it is definitively not gossip,

in my personal opinion. That's fascinating. And so when people are like, yeah, like gossip is important, like when you tell your coworker that this person is like a serial predator, it's like, no, that's not gossip. That's actually like an important warning that has to happen. And to me, gossip is like messy half truths about people you tangentially know that are salacious, and ultimately, like, hopefully not harmful, right? And I think that that's different from like malicious talk, you know, like to me, yeah, like slander and libel and other such things. So maybe a lot of people read this article in The New Yorker by Rachel Aviv that came out about these philosophers who are my colleagues at the University of Chicago, who are great. I do not

know them personally, but I will just as full disclosure, who are in this like complex marriage situation. But Rachel Aviv quotes this literary critic, Phyllis Rose, and she says, quote, gossip may be the beginning of moral inquiry. We are desperate for information about how other people live because we want to know how to live ourselves. And so I think gossip, oh, you have it right there, oh my god, you literally have a book. Yeah. So like, I think it's really interesting, right? Like, I think that like, historically, the reason that things like Socratic Dialogues are so famous is because in asking questions about how to live a good life or what would you do in this scenario, that's how we kind of suss out our own principles and what it means to like make just choices in a

society. And that's also why advice columns are popular, right? Because like, right, you want to be like, oh, well, what would I do? And that person is like mad wrong, and they're a terrible person. But in having these kinds of scenarios, we're able to work through kind of moral and ethical dilemmas of what it means to, you know, to quote the great philosopher George Costanza, live in a society. Part of what allegedly categorizes gossip is that you don't fully, it's unverifiable information, right? Or like, challenging to verify. I mean, you're like a for real journalist, right? And so like, that's, that's hard. But like, you know, I would push back not to like take us to a whole other place, but a lot of other information that we see as being

objective, or that doesn't require like secondary proof is also maybe unverifiable, right? So like one obvious example is like, police reports of crimes, right? Like all over the country, local newspapers and journalistic outlets basically published whatever the police say, that's what happened, right? And then many times after the fact, we find out that that is indeed not what happened. But there are certain people that are in a social position in our world where if they say something is true, it's true. And that has to do with like state power, that also has to do with relational power, right? Like, you believe something differently if you have a proximal relationship to somebody. But I basically think like TLDR, like from a certain

point of view, like all things have these traits of gossip, right? Because for the most part, we are not in the habit of like deeply verifying the information we consume on a daily basis. Do you want to completely dodge the question about how gossip functions in your personal life, or would you like to answer it? Yeah, I think that so my primary social communities are writers, especially poets, very poets. Oh my God. Oh my God. Not only gossipy about like with a flourish, you know what I mean? Very beautiful, very beautiful gossip, but like super messy. And then academics who also have also gossipy absurd, ridiculous. And so, you know, like, I think it is often fun to partake. But I also am proud that I think I try to mostly surround

myself with people who are really also concerned with people's wellbeing. And so like, I think I have a good squad of peeps around me that straddle that line pretty well. Perfect. Are you ready to do this story? Totally ready. Today's story is about a girl who might have just the worst luck in the entire world. Hmm. Okay. So our friend of a friend will call her Micah. She's like, in her mid 30s, mid to late 30s. And right before the pandemic, she moved to like a new big ish city because she had gotten this new job. We're talking like 401k healthcare. She finally has enough money to save. Oh, good job. Good job, Micah. We're so happy for her. She's like,

finally stable enough that she can achieve her dream, which is to get a dog. Yay. Okay. I just want to say I think a lot of people do not realize how expensive dogs are. They're so expensive. So I'm happy for her that she feels like she can add a special, special little somebody to her life. Did Micah have a lot of friends in her new city? Is that part of what she moved? This is a good question and no. So she's in like kind of a bad situation in that she like moved to this new city was planning to make a bunch of friends and then pandemic hit. Okay. But now, you know, the pandemic hit. So she's at home all the time. Right. And so she's like, now is literally the perfect time to get a dog because I can like train it. Yeah, it is. And also probably necessary

to maintain her mental health because she don't got no friends. So yes, exactly. Would you like to tell the people about your dog? I would love nothing more. Funny you should ask. I am an enthusiastic dog owner. Our dog, his name is Charlie Brown Christmas. It's a perfect name and I love it so much. Like the special. We got him December 2019. And so he's not fully a pandemic pup, but like his early socialization was definitely like he was four months old when the no he's born September. So he was six months old when the pandemic started. Still maybe. Yeah, still definitely a little baby. And he's a shelter dog. People ask what type of dog he is. He is a creative may launch of many different dog breed. I'm going to take this because some people get

really offended when you say that your dog is a mutt. Yeah, for like reasons I don't understand. And so I'm always being like, Oh, my dog's a mutt. And then some people are like that he's going to hear you and his feelings are going to be here. Yeah, no. Yeah, no, he's like a literate. Yeah, she doesn't know what that means. No, he's like a old country buffet of dogs. It's like a little a little bit from here, a little bit from there. Yeah, so he's he's great. He about halfway through the pandemic was diagnosed by a vet with what is known clinically as global fear. I was like, Oh, everybody has that like hard same. So that basically means that he because he was a he was abandoned as a baby and he didn't have he was abandoned like without his dog mom.

His trauma. Yeah, yeah. So he basically has like mad trauma and he you know, he he's doing well. He has worked hard. But he is basically global fear means that like, if he doesn't know what something is his default is that he's scared of it. So he's not like curious. He's not goofy. He's like very serious. People who follow me on Instagram will see he's like a deeply serious, often frightened dog who is basically Velcro to my body or the body of my husband at all times. So yeah, he sounds perfect. Okay, so our friend of a friend is like I want a dog, right? And she's like she begins the most dangerous of games. She begins to look at pet finder. Micah's experience with pet finder is that it is just like emotional warfare, right? Like she finds

a dog, she wants the dog, she can't have it, right? She finds another dog, she wants the dog, she can't have it. Eventually, if she goes to like the closest shelter to her calls him on the phone and is like, I'm want a dog. My only qualifications is that I want like a kind of small dog because I live in an apartment. And I want young but not a puppy. I will take whatever dog you have. And that is how she ends up with Churro. Churro, Jordy, though, we love you already. Is this a pug? Is Churro a pug? No, he's like a doxin mix. Oh, I love him. Does he have a little short little stumpy legs? Yes, tiny little legs, short hair, like little spots around the eyes. Adorable. Oh, I love him. Micah loves Churro. Me too, Micah. And she is like so lucky in this instance.

She's like, Churro's perfect. I would die for Churro. I love Churro. And Churro's the name that came from the shelter or that was the name. Yes, but she kept it. Great, great, great. Because he like kind of looks like a Churro, you know, so it's like, it's perfect. Like an overly generous Churro that like is just very wide, but not that long. Exactly. But very quickly, Micah is like, okay, so I've always wanted a dog. I'm realizing that wanting a dog and believing in dogs and loving dogs is not exactly the same as knowing how to train a dog. Yeah, especially alone. Yes. And Churro is like mildly misbehaved, like not misbehaved in a super bad way, but like pulls on a leash, hates skateboards, like wants to murder every skateboard. Oh yeah, I was so familiar.

This is a familiar tale in my life. So Micah like looks for trainers because she's like, a trainer would help me, but the trainers are like super expensive. Yeah. So she watches like a lot of YouTube videos and like a bunch of TikTok dog trainers and she does learn like kind of these basic things that she needs to know. That's good. Does she start giving Churro buttons to talk with? Because this is also. Oh my God. No, thank God. No bunny. Treat. Treat. I'm like, I already know that my dog wants to go outside. Yeah. I know what my dog wants all the time. He wants to sit next to me or he wants a snack. Agreed. Micah's like, okay, I've got like some of it, but she's like, I need a community of dog people, right?

She has all these questions that are like, what dog food do I buy, right? And like, what kind of treats are cheap and good, right? These kind of like issues. The dog food she bought for Churro, Churro does not like, she bought a different kind. Churro threw it up. Churro has like food issues relatable. Has she gone to the vet? Yes. She went to the vet and the vet costs, you know, $300. And it's like, why do you- This is how to get your man. This is what I'm trying to say, it's not all funny games with dogs. Yeah. And the vets like, you know, feed your dog this very special fancy food. And she's like, I do not have money for that. And also this seems like a scam. I need to like find people to talk to. Micah's violating the number one millennial rule, which

is you have to extensively yelp and read reviews and Reddit every single thing. So like, the solution to what food should my dog eat, what coat should my dog wear, what leash should my dog have is all like, you need to spend four hours on Reddit slash yelp slash chewy.com reading reviews. And you need to use a data-informed strategy to select the single best data-informed crowdsourced from strangers on the internet. She's getting her mid 30s millennial card revoked if she does not resolve this quickly. She's like, I want to talk to people. I don't just want to read things. So she's like, I'm going to find an online very unrelatable. Micah, I've never felt so far away from you. She joins. It's going to get worse. She joins a giant Facebook group about dogs.

I'm sorry, can we pause and pause them out for Micah and her choices? Because that is always, not if you listen to this podcast, but also if you just have common sense, that is always the wrong choice. And this is like a big Facebook group, right? Like huge. And so Micah like joins the group and she posts a little photo of Churro right onto the page and like introduces herself, right? She's like, here's who I am. Here's who Churro is. And she adds a question. She's like, as a new dog owner, does anybody have a food brand that they recommend that's like good for people on a budget? Micah, you are out of your gourd. I do not. The worst possible choice. It literally would have been better to go to a pet store and be like, hi MP who works here. Which of these vaguely

reputable brands is most popular? Here's how I know. Okay. Here's how I know Micah has also never truly been broke. She needs to look at the per unit cost. Yes. The dog food at the store and then narrow it down to three like sufficiently cheap dog and then ask which of these ask a person who does not buy self dog food all day. This is the worst choice. I, my opinion of her has plummeted. If she is listening, I am sorry. There's still, but this is really troubling, very troubling. This, as you can imagine, immediately goes haywire. Yes. Because the group is like, you should buy raw food. And then it's like raw food is dangerous. Raw food is elitist. Raw food has plastic waste. And then it's like, you should get grocery store brand. It's cheap

and fine. And it's like, no, grocery store brand is like tantamount to abuse. Grocery store brand is full of carcinogens that will kill your dog. And like all of these people are freaking out. This was entirely predictable. Everything about this outcome was foreseeable. And then there are like other people in the comments who are like, how dare you post this? Like you should have searched the group before asking this. You should have checked the pins. And Micah feels like very overwhelmed and bad. I have a question about Micah. Is Micah Encino Man portrayed by Brie Fraser in the classic film with Sean Astin in Pauly Shore? Like is she frozen from the, is she Steve Rogers? Like good question. Was she frozen in a block of

ice while hunting with her Neanderthal partner and has now been thought left to survive in her modern world? Because that is the only explanation I can fathom for why she made such a horrifically bad choice. Micah, to her credit, does leave this Facebook group. Like upon seeing this drama, she's like, no. She read some articles online and she's like, you know what? I just think that I need to like find some other dog owners that I can talk to, right? Like real dog owners that I can look at. And so she's like, there are parks near my house. Parks are outside. I could take Churro to the park and maybe I can like ask people there what they're feeding their dogs, right? And like how they're training them and what the whole thing is. Sure, Jan. Okay. So she goes,

she takes Churro to this like little dog park kind of in her neighborhood. And there are other dogs there and there's even like another little doxin. And the doxin's owner is named Preston. Okay. And she's like, hello, Preston. Can I ask you a question? And Preston's like, sure. She's like, I'm a bit lost. Like I'm a new dog owner. Preston's like, what's up? She's like, what do you feed your dog? I'm sorry, Micah. You sound arranged, Micah. I don't know what. Okay, go on, go on. And then she proceeds to try and tell him about this Facebook interaction. Like she's like, I tried to figure it out. I went into the Facebook group and then everyone got into a fight and like people were yelling about raw food. And Preston like holds up both his hands and is like, one, do not feed your

dog raw food. It is $5 million and clearly stressing you out. He's like, this is the brand that I use. It has a wolf on it. Like go get that. It's fine. And he's like, what Facebook group did you join anyway? Like I didn't see this post. Preston's questions are my questions. And she's like, oh, I joined this, you know, giant Facebook group. And he's like, oh, you're not talking about our Facebook group. Okay, wait a minute, Preston. All right. And she's like, what? And he's like, oh yeah, a bunch of the people that have been in this neighborhood forever created a Facebook group for like our dogs at this park. Okay. All right. I do not approve of this at all. So he's like, it's much smaller, you know, it's like 50 people max. And he's like, I'll text you the link.

And she's like, great, I would love to give you my number so you could text me this link, right? Do you think the small Facebook group can be any better? Like how are you feeling? I feel that this is once again an abysmal choice on Micah's part. I think that no Facebook group is ever a good idea. It can only end in sorrow and tragedy. That is how I feel. Or with screenshots of a group being sent to the normal gossip at defragurator.com email. Again, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. I think that like, you know, I understand that it's tempting when you are part of a really small, like there's a, there's a black runners group, black Chicago runners group that really only works on Facebook. And I feel, I feel like

sadness every day that I can't really fully participate, but it's like, you know what, use that to take some L's in life because it's not worth it at all. I also wonder if Micah thinks she's like spitting game in this moment by walking up to like, it seems clear that she's like, oh, this has worked out great for me. I'm like, bam, you walked up to a dude and you're like, how do I keep my dog alive every day? How do I feed my dog? The number one most basic thing that your dog literally needs for survival. You are openly confessing that you do not know how to provide and that your strategy for seeking this information in, in a world where we live with the, you know, relics of the information super highway, where all the world's knowledge is

available to us at the, you know, at our fingertips, at the, we don't even have to press about you can use your voice, you can use Siri. And you're asking a random man in a baseball hat. Yeah, that's embarrassing. That's embarrassing. And I, I did not think my opinion of her could decline further, but, but yeah, and still here we are. I'm so sorry. It's okay. Micah goes home, she clicks on the link in the like text, and that brings her to the Facebook page. The top banner of the Facebook is like a bunch of dogs and Halloween costumes. Okay. They're all wearing the same little like, yes, thing with the legs, the thing with the legs in front and then yes, yes. Okay. Like the little farmer outfit. Yes. Okay. So Micah clicks join. She's like,

all these dogs look so cute. I can't wait to be in this Facebook group. And immediately there are like hoops to jump through. You know how some Facebook groups have like questions to make sure you're real? Yeah. And the questions are like, what's your dog's name, age and breed? I'm lying. I didn't know that because I don't use Facebook at all, but I'm like, yeah, yeah, okay. It exists. Yeah. Okay. So it's like answering these questions so the moderators can make sure you're a real person. Sure. Sure. Sure. That makes sense. What's your dog name, age and breed? What is your address? Like what are your cross streets so we know that you're in this neighborhood? Sure. And which celebrity dog do you wish you could be friends with? Celebrity dog. Okay. How do you

feel about this? Yeah, I cannot name a single quote celebrity dog unquote. So that would be a challenge for me, but I guess I would go, my immediate question is like, does that it sounds like celebrity dog means a dog that is a celebrity as opposed to a celebrity's dog? Like I'm like, okay, Barack Obama's dog was bow. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm typing an airbud. Yeah, it seems like I assume they mean like an Instagram dog. Yeah. Oh, I have an Instagram dog that I love. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. There's this Instagram dog that everybody should check out and her name is Sunday, like an ice cream Sunday. And she is an older lab and her owner is a black woman who every weekend dresses Miss Sunday up to be a different kind of like black auntie in her 60s

character and like puts wigs on her and paints her nails and then plays like a Tina Marie song or like a Isabella song. And so the like running joke is just that like Miss Sunday is like actually a black woman who's like 67 years old. That's so cute. And I love it. Yeah. So that's who I would put and they do not get her then they don't deserve me in this group. That's so true. They definitely do not deserve you in this group. Okay. Micah feels she like answers these questions, whatever the other group was such a shit show that she's like, at least there's some semblance of like plan in this group. And they like accept her little questions and pinned at the top of the group when she finally gets in is a list of rules. And it says like you must comment your name underneath the rules to

indicate that you've read it. Okay. Can I say that I actually love this? Yeah, it's structure. It's structure. And I love looking at different subreddits and seeing the rules that people have come up with. And I like have a sociological interest in this. Like one of my favorites is there's this subreddit called never tell me the odds and it's just people posting like unlikely things. But one of it has all these rules of things you're not allowed to send. And one of them is a dart hitting another dart. And they're they're like, that's just actually not that hard to do if you learn how to do it. And just imagine being like a person who's like, yo, I just hit a dart with another dart and then going to tell and then all the internet like, no, no, that's not

allowed. I also like this subreddit called cozy places and it's pictures of cozy places. But that's great. Your picture will be taken off if your pet or your drink like your coffee or your glass of wine is too prominently displayed in your photo because then it's not a photo of the place. It's a photo of your cat or you're going to love these rules. Okay, great. I'm going to read them to you. Okay, great. They're 10 rules. I'm delighted. Rule number one, do not be rude. There is a difference between disagreeing and forcing your beliefs on other people. We maintain a kind and courteous space. I have questions, but go on. Okay. Rule number two, no solicitation or spamming. Okay, fair, legit. Rule number three, no politics. Dogs cannot vote. Dogs cannot see blue or red

because dogs are colorblind. Okay, this is where ding. Hello, bus driver. This is my stop. Let me out. I would like to go. I would like to leave. Rule number four, all posts should be primarily about dogs. Other animal posts are okay, but this is a dog group. Please keep the focus on dogs. Another animal can only appear in one out of 10 of your posts. Okay, that requires someone to do like retroactive analysis of your posts, which is I assume there's some really eager mods here that are going to really do that. Okay. Yes, rule number five, all pet sitting requests must go in the weekly thread. Do not begin a new thread. There is a system in place. Please respect it. That's good. That's important because otherwise you're basically spamming the whole thing with

pet sitting requests. Yes. Rule number six, it is good manners to comment on twice as many things as you post yourself. Okay. Rule number seven, no sees our Milan. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah, he's wild. Rule number eight, no blocking the moderators. Okay. Rule number nine, no memes. Okay, I think I take Umbridge with no memes, but I also understand they're like, look, this is a purpose, this is an information sharing group. And memes would just take up everything all the time if you did that. So that's fine. I feel, I feel good about these rules except for the politics thing, which I find offensive. Yes, dog whistle literally. Yeah. It's a little bit of a dog whistle. It's also like fascinating that they immediately reduce politics to like presidential or like party voting

when it's like, okay, well, what if we're trying to, you know, vote for a city council member that is going to give more money to the dog park or it's going to have a leash ordinance or something like those are mayor or any literally anything race. Yeah, right. There's, there's, um, there are a lot of pretty obvious like park expense. There are a lot of really obvious reasons why a dog group should care about politics. Yes. So that is a major red flag for me in the unlikely event that I have already gotten this far. Um, I have, I have now taken my leave. Rule number 10 is no screenshotting posts from this group and adding them to community lists. That's funny. You know what we call that? We call that tone on yourself. That's like, that's like saying, we know that

people are in here absolutely deranged and people should not be held publicly accountable for the unhinged things that they're saying. Do not send them to normal gossip at defective.com. Yeah, exactly. But really do that. But really do. So Micah is like, whatever, right? Like these rules are kind of crazy. I just literally need a place to like ask my questions. And Micah is also like this group seems like it has drama that I can watch because it is my neighborhood. So she is like, I'm going to stay. Okay. For the first time, I find myself in kindred spirits with Micah. Micah posts like her photos of Churro and she's like, here's Churro. This is my dog. Like we live in the neighborhood. Churro is new. I have some new questions as a new dog owner and everyone

is like super welcoming. They're like, hello, Churro. Please show us more photos of Churro. Right. Like great. Okay. The moderator of this group is a woman named Chloe. Okay. Chloe seems nice. She posts a lot. Is she moderating alone? She's the sole moderator? She is the sole moderator of this group. Red flag. Red flag. She answers every question. Okay. She is like horny for the rules. Okay. Like she kicks people out of the group if they are talking about politics during the election. She is like very strict. Did she start the group? No. And Preston tells Micah, he's like, you'll never meet Chloe. Like she never comes to the park. She's super secretive. She like stays in her house. Like you'll see her on rare occasions, but like mostly where you will

see her is on this block, essentially. So Chloe is a robot. No. Chloe built by members of the past society and left to now moderate this Facebook group until the end of time. Got it. Other thing about Chloe and truly thank you for doing my foreshadowing for me is that Chloe's dog is a rescue corgi mix named Diana Princess of Wales. Okay. I love Chloe's trace of dog names. And you must call the dog by its full name. Okay. That is not a rule we maintain in my house. If you think if you give your dog a ridiculous name, you got to let people call the dog. Whatever they're gonna. Our dog comes back from daycare and his stuff is labeled. They just take all his stuff and write CBX on it with. That's his name. CBX. You know, it's like you can't be picky about that.

It's true. Fascinating corgi rescue corgi mix could be a little anxious, could be a little anxious. Now as a cowboy bebop fan, I obviously love all corgis. But it's also interesting because also wasn't Queen Elizabeth. Isn't she super into corgis, but then didn't she hate Diana? Yes. Okay. So there's like, there's like a spicy intrigue baked into the very naming of the dog. And the other thing about Diana Princess of Wales is that the dog or the person, the dog, then not the humanitarian who lost her life tragically. No, the dog, the rescue corgi. Is it Chloe like a few months ago found Diana the dog on the street and like took Diana Princess of Wales to the vet, no chip, no home, like couldn't find her family. She didn't have a collar.

And Chloe was like, my dog now. That's definitely somebody's dog. Can I tell you that that happened to me once that I found a dog? And the dog lived with me for like a week. And there was a viral Huffington Post article about me and the dog that I found. And as a result, the owner found out that I had their dog and contacted me and I returned the dog to the home. That was really nice of you to babysit that dog for a week. Thank you. I loved her and people, I have written several books. I have a doctorate from Harvard. I don't care about the dog. People care about the dog so much. I do events and people are like, Hey, remember when you found a dog? And I'm like, Yes, I do. And you know what? I'm delighted to talk about that. So you want to talk to me about

that one time I found a dog that is totally cool with me. But I relate to this, but also like when you find a dog like that, that's clearly like, especially a dog that is like a little bit of a prestigious breed. Like, yes, that is somebody's dog, bro. Like that is not your dog. But at this point, Chloe has had the dog for like five months. And she's like regularly posting photos of Diana, Princess of Wales. Yeah, but on the closed group that she moderates. Yes. And members have like met Chloe and Princess Diana, right? But Micah doesn't meet either of them until Princess Diana's first birthday party, which is held at the park. Wait, so this is a super puppy puppy? Yes. Oh, how does she know when I guess she's just estimating when she does it? She gives Princess Diana of Wales

the dog, Princess Diana of Wales, the real princess's birthday. Okay. Okay. This is now weird. This is now weird. I also like, don't you see those viral videos about like people finding their dogs like 10 years later? Or also like literally every movie we watch in the 90s as kids, the comrade bat, like, you know, lucky, there's so many bingo, like this is somebody's dog, bro. They all meet at the park for Princess Diana the dog's birthday and Chloe has like gotten balloons. She's ordered pizza. She's gotten treats for every dog that are shaped like crowns. Okay. Diana the corgi is like adorable, clearly kind of a fancy dog. And Micah is like, she makes sure it'll look like a street rat, right? Because Churro is just like scampering around and he's so short. No, justice

for Churro. But overall, the party is like fun. Okay. A few months pass, things are going well. Churro learns to shake. Churro learns to lay down. Churro does not learn to heal, but he's working on it. Can he do loosely shawking? Yeah. Okay. That's a big one. He's getting really good. He's getting good. Does he have food that doesn't make him barf? Yes. Great. He's really growing up. Is it literally some random food that she picked? Yes. Yes. It's the one with the wolf on it. Okay. Cool. Sure. Then one day in September, Chloe posts to the group. She has received the worst news of all. Diana's original family has gotten in touch. Of course. Of course. Diana is not a corgi mix. She has a corgi pure bread. Yeah. Diana has papers. She's worth a bazillion,

full-fillion, million dollars. Yes. Oh, girl. You in trouble. This is obviously devastating for Chloe, right? Because she's like, my dog, goodbye. Yeah. The members of the group are like, we'll bring wine to the dog park, right? And she's like crying at the dog park, right? Like, I miss Princess Diana. Wait, so she's already relinquished the dog. Yes. She does give the dog back when the family finds her. That's good. I mean, she had to because that was their dog. It's their dog. Yes. The other problem here is that the landlord, Chloe's landlord, made an exemption for Princess Diana because she was a found dog on the street. She can't get another dog. Yes. And Chloe decides like, I'll move out at the end of the week, right? I'll get a different

apartment where I can have a dog. But in the meantime, she's like going rogue as the moderator because she's like really sad. So she's like banning people at random. People are like, Chloe, you have to stop. And eventually she like calms down. There needs to be some checks and balances against Chloe here. I think that the ratio of 50 people to one moderator is not acceptable. And I think in general, like one moderator, like there's just no check on her choices here. She was, you know, enraged by her grief and was just like kicking people off hither and thither. That's not cool. Yes. So Chloe moves apartments, right? It's now like winter. Still in the same neighborhood. Still in the same neighborhood, but like moves apartment so that she can have a dog.

Okay. Like a week after she moves apartments, she posts a photo to the group. It's a photo of like a spaniel. And she's like, does anyone know who this is? Stop. Okay, Chloe, you are stealing people's clothes. There is no way lightning has not struck twice. This woman is a thief. She's like, I found her on this street. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Also, I call BS on Princess Diana, who was a registered dog with papers that cost all that money. That dog didn't have a chip. I don't believe it. No. This dog, the spaniel. Another purebred, fancy dog. Chloe names Camilla Duchess of Cornwall. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. It's like a little funny. You know, the way spaniels are like a little funny looking like their eyes are like a little

far apart. And everyone like is like, this is a really cute dog. But also like, how did you find another dog on the street? Like what's going on here? Also, a spaniel has like very like silken tresses. And so like, if it's really been in the street, it's going to look raggedy. Like I just don't, I just don't buy this in the slightest. Chloe adopts Camilla Duchess of Cornwall quote adopt. She stole this dog, which is like kind of great. Like everyone's partly happy for Chloe because they're like, Oh, you've got another dog. But they're also like, why couldn't you just like get a dog in a regular way instead of quote unquote finding one on the street? No. The only problem with Camilla is that Camilla hates men, like hates

them. Okay. Okay. And so Chloe's like, yeah, I can never bring her to the park because she like hates men. Okay. For a couple months, that's like the only drama is that Chloe is posting about like trying to train Camilla out of hating men. Then in March, something happens that tears the group apart. What do you know about Joe Biden's dogs? Oh, so Joe Biden has, I think, two dogs. They're like Belgian shepherds that are, I think, like decommissioned military dogs or injured military dogs. Somehow they're like dogs that are affiliated with the military. Yes, cop dogs, kind of. Yeah. Yeah, except maybe not like, are they cop dogs? Are they like, army dogs? Army dogs. Either way, they're dogs that have like, some sort of like training relationship

to cart to like, violent organized state violence. Yes. And I do not recall the dog's names, but I thought that one of them, there was some cutesy story, like one of them like ran up to him or something. Yeah, am I getting any of this right? Yeah, this is all right. The only dog whose name you need to know for this particular incident is Major. Major was like the older dog. Right. That passed away. And then he got a new one. But before that, Major had a little biting incident in the White House, which was like, a little bit chaotic, because there were all these rumors about Major biting, and it was like, should Major be sent somewhere else? Right? Like, what do we do? Also, like, a dog bite, not a nip or like a snap, like a dog bite is a really serious

thing. And, and I think it was a Belgian shepherd or a German shepherd. I think it's Belgian. Yeah. Yeah. But like, that's like a, that's like a big, frightening dog that obviously for people, you know, who are people of color or Jewish or black people, like, is like, is very traumatic, big dog, like, yeah, a big dog, but also has like a historic, like, there's like a historic salience to being bitten by a Belgian shepherd, right? Like you said, it's like a cop dog. It's like, you know, it's like a Birmingham, Salma type dog. Yes. So, but even regardless of the specific breed, it's just like, it's a pretty serious thing to be bitten, like for real straight a bit, and that's not, that's not okay. The problem in this particular instance is that this descends the group

into chaos, right? Because people are like fighting about the dog. Somebody posted this article. Yes. And that's allowed from the rules? No, it's not allowed. But Chloe is MIA. So people are like snipping back and forth, right? It's like, much like major. Yes, just like major, they're fighting back and forth in each other snarling barking. It's going on and on and on. Everyone is like, where is Chloe? Oh my gosh, like, this is not fun. This is not going to be happening in this group. What would you like to do about this? Would you do anything? Me personally? Yeah. I think I am going to seize the moment to initiate what should have been happened a long time ago, which is the age of Chloe needs to end. And I would post, I might make a, why can't make

a burner because they have all these verifications. But you know what, I can't tell you what Mike would do. But if it was me, I'd be like, look, everyone, I think it's time for us to confront a really tough subject. Right now, we have a situation where the group desperately needs moderation and our moderator is not present. All of us have many different commitments as adults with busy lives and it's simply unreasonable to expect a sole person to carry all the responsibility of managing what is a very active, thriving group. Therefore, I would like to suggest that now is the time for us to start thinking about a process for choosing one to three additional moderators. And when the problem is that Chloe's also probably the only admin so she can add people.

Exactly. This is not what Micah does. But it is almost exactly what Preston does. Preston, I told you from Jean, Preston was my guy. Preston was like, absolutely not. He's like jumping in there. He's like, Chloe seems to be missing, but this group does have rules. Clearly, it needs more moderation. Like I am saying as a member of this group, as community enforcement, shut it down. This is democracy. This is what the people, this is a grassroots movement. Everyone is like, you're not Chloe, you're not our boss, you can't make us stop. Preston DMs Chloe, since her little Facebook message and is Chloe focused, there's chaos happening here. Chloe's like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I was dealing with

some drama with Camilla. I'm actually just going to make you an admin and a moderator temporarily and you can just delete the post. Preston's like, great. Yes. I hope Preston does not go mad with power, but I want to say, even though, as I said, I do believe that Chloe is a serial dog thief, even if that weren't the case, there are legitimate reasons why a single person might just be busier, have things going on in their life. It's a job you're not paid for, right? Right, moderating. Exactly. So Preston deletes the post. He's like, hate of Major Biden has no place here. He's like, I am now in charge, right? And Micah's like, this is great, right? Preston, my friend, is now in charge of this group.

So now Preston is kind of the moderator of this group, right? Chloe's coming in sometimes, but Preston is the captain now, exactly. Then that summer, only six months later, Camilla runs away. To her real home. Chloe posts in the group and everyone is like, oh, shit. She's like, can you guys help me? I've lost Camilla. She ran out the front door, Camilla is gone. And so they're making posters, right? They're canvassing the neighborhood. They're stopping people on the street to be like, have you seen a picture of Camilla? Please take a photo of the sign so that if you run into her, you can text us. So there are just photos of Camilla and her weird eyes everywhere in this neighborhood. This is some major city. Would you say it's a top

20 metropolis? Yeah. Okay. This seems incredibly inefficient to me. And there are other, I would say most, you know, major metropolitan areas have other preexisting systems in place where people are already tapped in to be primed for this type of thing. Like in Illinois, there is like an Illinois lost and found dog registry that you can. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I just think there's probably something that already exists. Certainly there is a little Brady Bunch posters, but gone. But this is a group that is like self important, right? So they're like, here we go. And this is a thing that helps them make collective meaning because it gives them a purpose. Yes. A week passes, no Camilla. Two weeks pass, no Camilla. Chloe is very sad. The whole group is very sad. Chloe

like makes a rare appearance at the dog park to like receive hugs, but Camilla is gone. Oh. After Camilla's disappearance, Chloe is around like less and less. Preston is now doing all of the moderating. She's not getting another dog, even though she's in a dog safe apartment. Oh, no, she is. She gets another dog. Like two months after this, she gets another dog. This dog, let me just guess, this dog is like, I'm trying to think of the most like prestigious, fancy dog I can think of. But I don't know enough about like, like, think Eve, think American chemical. She gets a purebred corgi puppy. Okay, okay. That she claims she rescued, but everyone's like, no, you did not. You did not rescue a purebred corgi puppy. And she names the puppy Kate

Duchess of Cambridge. Okay, I was, I was waiting for on a Charles, Prince Charles thing, but immediately everyone in the group is like, oh, gee, Kate Middleton and everyone's like, no, no, no, no, no, do not use the name Middleton, call her by her title. She's a royal Duchess of Cambridge. Got it. I have to know at what point people are going to start investigating what is obviously a pattern that this person allegedly finds, where finds dogs that people have invested thousands upon thousands of dollars into, you know, and also like dogs, like it just is just not adding up the math a math in here. It's not at all. After six months, like about six months after Chloe adopts Kate, someone in the group posts like an exciting

announcement and they're like, they're Portuguese water dog or whatever, right? They're like fancy little dog had puppies. Oh, yeah. They're like, would anyone like first dibs if you want a puppy in this group? Wow. And Chloe responds and it's like me, I want a puppy. She raises her little hand. She's like, I want one additional dog. Now Portuguese water dogs are large. Yes. So she wants a large dog for her apartment in addition to her small stolen dog. Yes. And Preston is like, this girl, she is always up to something. Like he's like, I'll believe that she's going to adopt this dog when I fucking see it. Like she is on one. And our friend of a friend, Micah, is like, what do you mean? And Preston's like, it's just a whole thing. Like she's just a whole thing.

Nobody thinks anything of this. They can see like people arranging to meet the dogs, right? There's a plan for like the dogs to come to the park to meet the puppies to make sure they get along, right? Oh, they're probably so cute. They have a little curly hair. Oh gosh. And they're like allegedly hype. I mean, there's no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog, but they're like a low shedding dog. Allegedly. Yes. So cute. Like right before Chloe is supposed to bring Kate Duchess of Cambridge to the park to meet these Portuguese water dogs. Chloe posts, Kate is stolen. Someone puts Kate in a van and drives her away. Five exclamation points. Dog nappers. She's token. So I just want to say there are, I know people that this has happened to them.

It does happen. It does happen. I think Chloe is the calls coming from inside the house. Chloe is the dog napper. So Micah is like concerned, right? Micah is like, it makes perfect sense to me that someone would steal a purebred corgi puppy. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And Preston is like, I think that this girl is full of shit. Like I think she's lying. I agree. He's like, sure, someone could steal Kate, but like, did they? Did anyone ever meet Kate? No. Ah, okay. Okay. Micah is like, just bless her heart, right? Micah is like, I feel really bad for her that she got her dog stolen. And Preston is like, wake up. This is the third dog in as many years that has appeared in Chloe's life and then disappeared in unexplained circumstance.

Right. A fancy dog, not a little bedraggled dog that you found wandering in the park that had a mustard stain on it and like, you know, that like ended a tooth missing and three legs, like a fancy, fancy, fancy dog that costs a lot of money that also has like, well, the corgis could be longer, short hair, but in some of these cases, like very like, yes, fancy fur and stuff. I just don't buy it. I don't buy it. Micah, Micah's like, some people are just unlucky. Micah is a simple, simple summer child. I don't know what to think of her. She's like, is so generous in a way that like is undeserved. I would say credulous more than generous. I would say gullible and not wise. While they're having this conversation, someone like posts in the group and is like,

we want to get a painting of Kate, Duchess of Cambridge and the other dogs made for Chloe, like Venmo us X amount of money to get this painting made for her because like she's been through so many tragedies. Like of all of her dogs. So Photoshop the dogs together and then make this is garbage. Okay. Preston is like, Micah, no, do not send them that money. Do not send any money. This is a solicitation. This is a solicitation. This is a violation of the rules. Yes. Great point. I did not even think about that. That's a really good point. Preston is like, do not send this money. We have things to figure out and Micah's like, figure out what and Preston's like, listen, I'm not sure yet, but there's something that we need to figure out.

What is your move here? You like think that there is suspicious activity. Am I Preston or Micah or me? Be whoever you want to be. I'm me and I live in this neighborhood. I am with Preston. I love an investigation. I also think that all of our dogs, well, not my personal dog because nobody's going to take my dog, but other dogs, other dogs are in danger in the neighborhood because I think that Chloe is up to no good. I think that her, I think there's a lot of stuff that just doesn't pass the smell test about what she's doing. And I just don't believe that she has found any of these fancy dogs on the street. So either she's stealing them or, well, at the very least, I'm not contributing to this painting situation. This is Tom Fullery.

It's not my business to be the police. So I don't feel like I want to try to solve the crime of the provenance of the dogs, but I no longer want to do anything that enables Chloe. And so I'm not I'm not going to maintain the fiction that everybody else. There's no way Preston is the only one here who doesn't believe this. I'm not going to play into what is, to me, an obvious fiction. Preston tells Mike to come over. Preston has his two desktop computers set up, right? And he's like, we're going community enforcement mode. We are going to look into everything. So Preston is the police. Yes. Preston is like, we're going to figure this out. He's vengeance. Preston is Batman. He is Olivia Pope. Yeah. He is like, I'm going to solve this

mystery. He's like, okay, if I were to do this, right, I'd be like reporter. What I would do is say, wow, someone stole a purebred corgi. There's probably a police report for that. And I would try to find the police report. Preston is not a reporter. So Preston is like, what are we are going to do is we're going to look at Chloe's Instagram. Okay, we're just going to see what we can find here. Okay. You know, Chloe has most recently posted like a slideshow with photos of Kate that is like, I miss my beautiful dog, right? Bring Kate home. So he's scrolling, right? He's like looking at all these photos of Kate. He's like scrolling through them one at a time kind of slowly. The seventh photo in this slideshow is a photo of

Kate like sitting on a picnic table bench at a brewery. And in the background of this photo is the ocean. They don't live by the ocean. They do not live by the ocean. And Preston is like, huh. That's weird. Like this is so weird. And Micah's like, yeah, and what brewery is that? And so he like zooms in, you know how the cups have like the little logo? Yeah, he like zooms in on the cup logo. They Google the brewery. It is in San Diego. They're both like, she did not go to San Diego. She doesn't go anywhere. Right. Right. She would have told everybody, oh, me and Kate are going to San Diego. These are our pictures. So this dog is a little catfish dog. So Micah goes to the brewery page, right? He like types in the brewery onto their Instagram. He goes to the tagged photos.

And there in the tagged photos is Kate, except it's not Kate. It's an Instagram dog named Tater Tot with 5,000 followers and a chewy sponsorship. Shout out to chewy.com. Do highly recommend their great products. I am not being paid to say this. Wow. Wait, also low key so you can get a sponsorship with only 5,000 followers. I'm messing up, but I'm not in charge here. Wow. Tater Tot, more like Kater Tot, more like Kate fishing. Am I right? So Micah's like going through the photos on Tater Tot's profile, right? All of the photos of Kate are screenshots from Tater Tot's profile. Oh my God. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. They have like the side by side receipts, right? Of like her post and Tater Tot's post with like Tater Tot

as he's known in the streets. Tater Tot. Can I just say when you first said he was growing through the carousel, I thought you were going to say that one of the pictures just had like a Getty image. I thought it was going to be like basically that. I like a Wikimedia Commons photo. It still says stock and like the watermark on it. Dude, I wish I could say I was surprised, but you know what, Chloe? Oh my God. You have the receipts. Oh yeah, blow it up. Blow it up. Burn the house down. How? Well, okay. I need a little more information. So Chloe has been a terror as a moderator. Yes. Is she a bad person? Like is she an unkind person? Has she harmed anybody in the community? No. And we now know that she did not steal this dog. So what she's doing

is she's telling internet lies in order to, we don't know what, fill a void in her life, make herself important, maybe to participate. Oh, I don't know what happened with the other two dogs. Like maybe something else happened and then she felt like this is her main social support network and she needed to continue to participate in that. Despite my initial instincts of going full Khaleesi and absolutely dracarysing the whole situation and just burning it down, I actually think, you know, like this is pretty sad. This is a person who is lying to her neighbors in order to continue participating in a social group that clearly means a lot to her. And that's not a healthy choice. But I don't want to be unkind to her. So I would, I'm not sure, to be honest, like, I think

if we were close, I would maybe confront her or, but, but we're not close. And so I might just maybe start to like, let other neighbors know surreptitiously, or I honestly might just be like, you know what, she's a liar on the internet. I mean, it's a day that ends in Y. I don't know. Like if she's, if she's not hurting everybody, and, and maybe that she clearly needed an out from the situation so she can get another dog that is a three dimensional dog that she owns and keeps in her house. So like, you know, she had to, she had to dispose of the other dog. Yeah, I do think, okay, the one wrinkle in my attempt to be kind here is that she has alarmed other people in the neighborhood and wasted their time. So she scared them.

She created a sense of, you know, chaos and, you know, uproar among her neighbors. And she also like had them out here make any signs when they could have been like watching a movie with their friends or playing a game with their kids. So this is like the devil angel dynamic that's going on between Preston and Micah, right? Preston is like Dracarys. We post these photos in the group. We are like, look at what she's doing. Like do not spend time trying to find Kate. Right. Kate doesn't exist. Right. Kate is actually Cater Tot. Yes. And Micah, our like sweet summer child is like, well, maybe she's having a hard time, right? I think that that is, that is the first logical thing I've heard from Micah's full mouth this entire episode. So Micah and Preston

fight about this and they, where they kind of come down is they're like the people who's cell phone numbers we have, right? So the people who we like the most, we are going to discuss this with and be like, are we now making a massive group chat? Yes, we are making a group chat of like 10 people to be like, what do you think we should do here? Here's the information we had. Also, do not be afraid that your dog is going to be dognapped because that's not real. Right. Right. Right. Oh, this is so messy. Okay. So they're chatting, chatting, chatting in the group chat. This is going on for like, like 24 hours, right? People are chatting back and forth really, really quickly. They're like coming to the conclusion that they need to confront Chloe

about it, right? They're like deciding that they need to confront Chloe about it when Chloe posts to the group. Oh no. Oh no. I am now going to share my screen with you. Yes. To show you what she posted. Bear with me for just one second. You know, it is a violation of the norms of this group to share screenshots to outside parties. Can you see this? Yes, I can. Can you describe to the listeners what you're seeing? Oh my God. Okay. Okay. First of all, it's not an actual screenshot. The production team has made a very nice PowerPoint of quotes. She posted a PowerPoint in the Facebook group. A slide deck. Well, I love this energy. Okay. First of all, the PowerPoint is titled In My Defense. Oh my God. Okay. She has made an interesting choice of layouts.

We have like a hot pink Malibu Barbie situation. It has come to my attention that there are some things going around about me. Exclamation point. Subhead. I will not be falsely accused. Exclamation point. Next slide, please. Figure one. Oh my God. Okay. So now I'm going to describe to what I see. Okay. This slide features three figures. Each is labeled figure one, figure two, figure three, and each one features the dogs in question. And they're labeled figure one, Diana, Princess of Wales, figure two, Camilla, Queen Consort, figure three, Kate, Duchess of Cambridge. And then there's a clip art of a banner, like a pink silk banner and some diamonds, just to give you that extra gish that all these dogs are royal dogs. Okay. Don't get it twisted.

And the first picture features, I guess, a corgi, which to me looks like a purebred corgi, which I guess that's what we found out that the dog was. The second one, Camilla, Queen Consort, you had said that this dog was funny looking. I did not fully grasp how funny looking this dog is. She is a Spaniel and she is funny looking. The third photo is Kate, Duchess of Cambridge, who we now know to be Tater Tot, aka Kater Tot, aka Katefishing. And this is a normal iPhone photo of a dog sitting in front of an oven in a kitchen with like one of those mats that's supposed to keep your feet from hurting when you're standing at the stove for a long time, and a bowl of something. And the dog is looking in the camera. Also, this dog is

absolutely adorable and has fat little feet and fat little legs. And I just love her so much. But it is a normal photo of a normal dog, which makes sense because it was stolen from a normal person's Instagram. Yes. Wow. Are you ready for slide three? Yeah, I just want to say also, in addition, like, aside from the labels on these figures, there's no evidentiary material presented here. Yeah, it's just photos of the three dogs. And it also, like, if anything, like, makes it clear that these are not, these are like, it adds suspicion to her. It does not help her case. Yeah, it's extremely funny to have the first slide be like, it's come to my attention that there are rumors. Slide two, background. Slide two, pictures of dogs. And then it's like,

no information. And then also, like, the last thing I'll say about this is like, there's a contrast between the first two, which are clearly professionally taken photos, and the third one, which is like, a dog in a house. Yes. Okay, ready? I could not be more ready. But am I really ready? Oh my God! Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. So this slide, so this slide on the right has a clip art of a sad tree that has no leaves, like a silhouette of tree branches that have no leaves that you would put if you were like, if you were doing an elementary school play of Edgar Allen Poe adaptations, you would use this clip art. If you were doing, like, spooky, like, if you were inviting people to a Halloween party, you might use this clip art.

If you were like a seventh grader who wrote a poem about a sad event in your life, you might use this clip art. What's the other clip art on the sad tree? The other clip art is that, so there's four sentences, and each sentence is divided by a little bone clip art, which is like, it's like, it's like wingdings, you know, it's like an outline. It's like somewhere between clip art and like an emoji. And this slide has four sentences, which I shall now read. I invented Kate to deal with some stuff I was going through. The the the boldness of this revelation I was not prepared for. I'm also immediately bothered that this is not in chronological order. Yeah, so we're going in our reverse order. Okay, I invented Kate to deal with some stuff I was going through. Bone emoji.

My ex and I adopted Camilla when we were together. Bone emoji. He paid the adoption fee, but she was my dog italics on my she was my dog. Bone emoji. When we broke up, he took Camilla and ruined my life. That is very sad. I'm confused because I forgot which dog is which. Okay, so Camilla is funny looking spaniel. And her story about funny looking spaniel was that what was the story? Her story was that she found her on the street. But then where did she go? She ran away. She ran away. Okay, okay. So, okay, she did kind of run away. I don't know why she wrote this in reverse chronological order. I think it would have made more sense to go dog by dog. Does not account for Diana. But I guess we know what happened to Diana, which was Diana. I don't

believe she found Diana. So we need to get to that. Maybe the final slide will explain this. But yeah, this is a weird, also this is weird because her initial theme made it seem like everybody was lying. Nobody was lying. Everybody was telling the truth about her. I feel sad about the X thing. You know, that happens. I know people that's happened to that's that's rough. I mean, this corroborates my theory that, you know, she was going through some things. It does. I think the choices she made to cope were not healthy choices. I assume that Chloe was doing the best with the emotional skills that she has available to her. And, you know, therapy is expensive and not always fully accessible. And is, you know, in pandemic times, like I said,

people have meltdowns. She owned up to it. I'm ready for the fourth and final slide, which I hope will explain. Oh, my God. Okay, okay. Okay, I'm sorry for throwing off the levels by screaming. Everyone does. Are you going to be okay? Oh my gosh, yes. She's wiping tears from her eyes. I am weeping. Okay, it's because the slide is so beautiful. She loves art. Okay, okay, okay. I really was hoping the slide would explain what happened to Diana, but it does not. Instead, by way of conclusion, this slide has a left and a right part. On the left part, it has a clip art of a rose, like a weird like airbrushed rose. And

then on top of that, a clip art of a little corgi clip part of a little corgi that stylistically does not match the rose. So it's like awkwardly layered on top. And then please put this in the show notes. And then on the left, it has, you know, in keeping with her color scheme, it has the same hot pink from the first slide. And it has a bullet pointed list. And it says, what I did was colon super weird bullet point, kind of crazy question mark, unnecessary. On the right, it says, what I did was not bullet point mean spirited or coming from a place of negativity. Bullet point two, gotta disagree with you here, Chloe, and attempt to get more attention from this community. Beneath that, it says, thank you all for the portrait of Kate, I will treasure it.

Kate, not your dog. So the portrait is puzzling because of the three dogs. This is the only dog. This is Cater Tot. This was never your dog. You have never interacted with Cater Tot. So, but I will treasure it. I feel like she had to throw that in as like a pro forma, like, you know, like y'all did a nice thing for me. Yes. And then it says, Finn, that would be the correct pronunciation, like signaling the conclusion of the slideshow, which we know to be over because it's a slideshow that's over. There's no more slides. You don't have to write that. She did not apologize at all. She did not apologize. I am so disappointed in Chloe because I think it's she yes, she took responsibility for sort of or she did not.

Actually, what she did was she provided an explanation for why she did the things that she did. I do not believe her explanations were honest because she absolutely wanted attention from the community and it would be okay to admit that. Yes. Like that is understandable. And what she did not do was apologize. She did not apologize for scaring anybody about the dognappers. She did not apologize for lying. She did not apologize for wasting people's times making these posters. Okay, they had to use toner or they had to go to their work and like make copies on the low and the time and the time yo time is like very precious. So I think it is very bogus. She did not apologize at all. And she did not explain the dog that from jump I maintain the provenance

of this dog is a lie. Diana, I have questions. I also just think it's important to note that she posted this in the group Facebook at random and 30 40 50% more than 50% 70% of this group had no idea that anything was going on. Okay, so that also means that somebody in the circle of trust group chat absolutely is a snitch. There is a mole. There is a rat inside. It just goes to show you should not make friends from Facebook and you should not be involved with Facebook. Yeah, anyway, whatsoever, because these people were not trustworthy. They told they went and they told and maybe they did it. Honestly, it could have been Micah. I'm not gonna front it absolutely could have been Micah who like maybe she was trying to either give Chloe a heads up or see if

there was like a perfectly reasonable explanation that she could then take to Preston and avoid. So I honestly think it was Micah that snitched. I do. I think it was absolutely Micah that snitched. I think that Chloe I'm curious to know about what the rest of her life is like that her approach to this was a PowerPoint. She could have gone with the classic Notes app screenshot. She could have. But it seemed important. The funniest part about the slideshow was that the pictures of the three dogs sets you up to think that she's going to be like exhibit a clearly this is not the same dog or this dog was not like the photos are supposed to somehow disprove the allegations. They do not. But they do not. This melts down the group.

Right. Like hundreds of comments within like an hour. Like people are losing it. You know everybody is at work. Yes. Telling their coworkers. It's like midday. This is like the best. Honestly, this is a great day for every single person in this group. Everyone is losing it. Oh my gosh. Everyone is posting. Preston is like this is out of control. Like all of this is crazy. People are texting. No, but this allows Preston to do a Palpatine. This allows Preston to do a Palpatine and seize power in the moment of chaos and now become the autocratic dictator that he always dreamed of being. It is also easy for him to seize power because after posting this, Chloe leaves the group and locks her. Her cat. Of course. Of course.

Of course she does. Thus violating one of the rules of the group, which is that you can't block the mods. Yes. Wow. Wow. Chloe. Wow. Wow. Wow. Now the thing that is sucky about everybody's situation and this is why again, you shouldn't mess with Facebook is that like you can close the account all you want, my good friend. This is your actual neighborhood that you don't really live in. And so you can't close your life. You can't close your life. Like now you have to go to like a different grocery store. Now you have to like only go out at night when undercover. Yes. When no one will recognize you and be a pariah because this was banana grams. I feel like she should have just apologized. Yeah. Why didn't she just say she was sorry? I think that's the key part of

it is that there's no apology anywhere in the slideshow. Oh, Chloe. It is in my defense, I lied. Yeah. In my defense, people are saying I lied. I did. In fact, I did. Here's pictures of dogs. We are at the end of our story. Oh my gosh. First off, how are you feeling at this point? I feel this is everything I could have wanted out of the gossips. My dream every day in interacting with the people I know is that one of them will be like, Hey, girl, let me tell you. This is an amazing story. I really hope that Micah learned some lessons about how you really can't trust everybody because right now you could sell her a beach house in Idaho and she would absolutely buy it. You sure could. I hope that she learned. I'm glad Micah made friends. I'm glad that they

had some bonding over this shared absurd experience. I agree with Chloe that nobody really got hurt, assuming that nobody jumped out and stabbed somebody when they thought they were a dognapper walking down the street, which like, that's the side of the story. They don't want you to know the dognapper stabbing. Who side are you on at this point? I mean, I was really sympathetic to Chloe until she did not apologize. And I feel that there were some low ball apologies here. I feel that there's a way she could have done even like a whack like halfway apology that would not have required her to fully account for what is clearly a deep well of unresolved issues. But even to just be like, I'm sorry, I wasted your time. I'm sorry,

I lied. Or like, you know, I really respect everybody in this group. And you know, I really, I'm grateful for the time we share just like, just like some gesture of, of like even the mileage accountability, yeah, acknowledgement, not even accountability. So she really, I was feeling for her until she failed there. I think that Preston's carceral tendencies are questionable. Like he wanted, he wanted to punish her, but ultimately he didn't. Like, I do think he, he, you know, managed it. He brought it to a community process. It really shows, you know, on that day Preston really became Facebook moderator. Like, he really grew and he, he built a community panel to like come up with a way of adjudicating this.

So, you know, I feel like he handled it relatively well and was open to feedback, given that what he wanted to do was slash and burn. And I feel like we need better mental health resources because Chloe had a strange meltdown. Would you like the final update? Oh my God, yes. Okay. So, like two days after this all goes down. Wait, you tell me the world continued to turn after this? Yes. Micah texts Preston and it's like, wait a fucking second. What about Princess Diana? Right. There's nothing in the slideshow about Princess Diana.

Micah, I'm sorry, you are so slow though. And Preston is like, yeah, but like we met Princess Diana, like Princess Diana exists. And Micah's like, but this woman lies all the time and the story never makes sense. Look at Micah growing. Look at Micah growing. And how did she get this purebred corgi without a chip? And like, Micah is like losing it, right? She suddenly is like, I have a scammer has been revealed to me and now I will find the end of the scam. Micah became middle-aged at that moment. Like she crossed over her youth ending.

Yes. She realized that like, yeah, people lie, Micah. Preston is like, yeah, I want to know about this too, but like Preston is very busy recruiting other people to like become co-moderators of this group and like create a system. Good. So Micah takes it upon herself. She starts like asking around, like in person at the dog park, right? Being like, what do you know? Who do you know? Did you meet Princess Diana? Right? Like kind of going through all of this stuff.

And she finds the answer from like an older woman at the park. Do you remember the rule about how you can't block the moderators? Yes. Turns out that that rule exists because this woman that Micah meets at the park found out that Diana was not Chloe's dog. Of course. Diana was a dog that Chloe dog sat for sometimes. Oh, this is so sad. She posted that to the group, like this older woman posted it to the group,

and blocked Chloe so Chloe couldn't see it. But whoever is the secret narc in this group? The snitched. Snitched. Told. Told her. And then told her to get booted. And then she got booted.

Oh, okay. So wait a second. So was the story about the family taking her back? Was that totally fake? Yeah, it was just, oh, it was all made up. It was just like that person was like, I don't want to hire Chloe anymore. Yeah, or just that person took their dog back from vacation. Oh, my gosh. This is shocking news. I am frustrated that I did not think of it in France. Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

The only final update I have for you. So Chloe has no dogs. No dogs. Well, she did have Camilla. She did have, but, but, but, but how do we know? Because here's, I think there was the X. Oh, my X took her. Prove it. Like there was never a mention.

Yeah, there was never a mention of a partner. Nobody mentioned that she cohabitated with anybody. Like I have questions about that dog too. I, Chloe is giving like seven year old first grader vibes. Like, yeah, I have a dog. This is my, you know what I mean? Like this is, oh, Chloe, Chloe, Chloe, Chloe, Chloe. I really hope and pray that you get the help that you need

because this isn't even like a scam because she did not get anything. The only thing she got was social interaction, which means that like the painting of a random dog from Instagram that you don't know. I, she clearly, you know what? Like right now somewhere, let me tell you where Chloe is. Chloe is joining a Facebook group for like, like tortoise owners or cat lovers. Like she really needs social connection. She's starved for social connection and she has found this weird way of getting it,

which like super messily, she opted to do this in a way that is tied to her residence because she lives, which is a poor choice. Awful choice. Again, giving me like, I'm seven to eight years old vibes. Like just didn't really think this through. But yeah, she didn't really scam anybody. She was lying because she needed social, a social work in which she like, then like gained importance.

Yeah. She corrupted it, but she like gained importance because she was the only one willing to put in the time to moderate, which she had time to do because she didn't have to walk a dog because she didn't own any dogs. Yes. Oh my God. The only fight, I do not have an update on Camilla, sadly.

The only final update I have is that Preston and his group of like, his cabal of new moderators added an 11th rule to the group, which is no dog fishing. Wow, wow, wow, wow. I'm so glad that as per usual, no dogs were harmed. No dogs are ever harmed on this podcast. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Even thank you so much for coming on Normal Gossip. This is a delight. I'm so happy you came. Thank you for driving me to tears. I can honestly say I do not believe in PowerPoint presentation. Because I'm a professor at university. I see a lot of PowerPoints. I do not believe I have ever wept for a PowerPoint.

And I will always cherish this moment that we shared where I cried. It's beautiful. Thanks. It's been real. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normal gossip at defector.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 gossip.

If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at Normal Gossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at at McKinney Kelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin. Diana Moskovitz is our story editor. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's business guys.

Tom Le is our editor-in-chief. Jay Tol Viera is our production assistant. Dan McQuade runs our sweet merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. And thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radio Topia.

Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. Is that everyone? Cool. I'm Steven Sandberg. And remember, you did not hear this from me. you