Normal Gossip - Is It A Crime? with Lovia Gyarkye

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

We regaled Lovia Gyarkye with a story about an eldest daughter introducing her boyfriend to her immigrant mother. (Plus just a hint of acappella!)Subscribe and learn more about Hammer & Hope here.Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

My name is Chris Black, and along with my illustrious co-host, Jason Stewart, we produce a podcast called How Long Gone. It comes out every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I think you'll like it. Jason, do you think they'll like it? I think you will maybe like it, maybe not. Sometimes we interview musicians like Lord or Bonie Verre, sometimes some comedians like Robbie Hoffman,

sometimes some cool chefs like Nancy Silverton. I'm going to read a couple podcast reviews. real reviews that came on Apple. Uh-oh. The good ones, right? Perfecting the dying art of male friendship, amusing mix of fashion culture, fitness, 90s punk ethos, drugs, and sobriety, commentary. Premium pod, Chris and Jason, are the duo I never asked for.

I feel too poor to listen sometimes, sure. But the dialogue is hilarious and the adrenaline I need to start my debt. They give me their unapologetic opinions about the culture, and I often ask myself, What would JCD? What would Jason and Chris do, I'm assuming? Subscribe to How Long Gone on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and hopefully we'll talk to you soon.

Bye. Hello and welcome to normal gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Today, I'm just going to get right into it because I'm so excited for today. guest. I have known her for almost a whole decade. She is a writer and editor whose work has appeared in The Hollywood Reporter, The Nation, the New York Times, and the Washington Post. Currently, she is an editor for Hammer and Hope, a magazine of black politics and culture that is

so gorgeous, y'all. We are going to leave a link to Hammer and Hope's website on the show notes so that you can subscribe, and you should. But without further ado, welcome to the show. Lovia Jacha. Lovia, hello. Thank you for joining me. Oh, Rachel, it is my honor. It is my honor. I'm so excited to be here.

I am so excited you're here. Our listeners do not know this, but you are the guest that I have actually known the longest. We have known each other since 2017, so almost 10 years when this airs. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. an honor to know you for that long. We've changed so much. We've grown together. Well and truly. And we

met in a gossip rich environment. So I have some idea of your relationship with gossip, which is that you were very good at it. But tell me how it came to be. Tell me how this relationship started. I love gossiping. I love to gossip. I love tea. I want to know it. And I'm a good person to gossip with because eight out of ten times I'll probably forget the details, but I'll always remember how I felt, you know? And I'm a very, like, expressive person I've been told. And so, like, when I'm listening to a story, I'm really giving you what you want. I'm like, my mouth is, like, open at the right times. My eyes widen.

I say, I think gossip is a lawful good. I grew up in the church, in the Pentecostal church. And so an environment also rich with gossip, I would say. Mm-hmm. And I think that, you know, church people know this. Like, church people love to be like, I. would never sin like God is on my side, da-da-da-da, all that stuff. And then the underbelly of the church is revealed through the gossip networks. And so I've always loved gossiping.

I think gossip is good. I think people should not be ashamed of loving to gossip. It's fine. It's not that deep. We're not going to hell because we're already living in it. Honestly, I think that was a perfect example of why I love gossiping with you so much, which is that you are never afraid to take it to the point that it needs to be taken. I feel like so many people are afraid of saying the dark thing or of asking the really complicated question that people don't want to answer. But I know when I come to you with a story or even something about myself, you're going to ask me a question that I don't actually want to answer.

And so I know that when I'm coming to you, it's with the intention of my worldview being opened. Wow, that is so sweet. That's a really nice way of saying that I'm nosy. I love that. Thank you, Rachel. I love research. That's how I started my career, you know? We both started as fact checkers. So I'm always like, how do we get to the bottom of this? You know, I love a little psychoanalysis. I think gossip is like a great place to hone your storytelling skills. You can become a better listener when you gossip. I just think that there are so many good skills. You know, I sound like LinkedIn. But a lot of good skills that come from gossiping. And so we should embrace that. Yeah, lawful good. Lawful good. Lawful good.

I feel like you've empowered me so many times in our long friendship. And now I'm hoping that you can do it again because I heard that you have some gossip for me. Oh, my God, I do. So, if you don't know, I was a film critic for many, many years. So I'm at a film festival. I'm at a party at a film festival. at like a really beautiful hotel. And it's overlooking the water.

There are celebrities around. There are publicists around. There are journalists around. And I'm just there to kind of soak it all in. I'm really there to say that I was there. You know, I don't want to be seen, but I want to see. Yes. Yes.

So imagine me, I'm standing on the dock of this, like, this hotel is connected to a dock because, like, obviously everybody has a yacht. And I'm looking across the dock. I'm looking at the ocean. And I'm scheming about how I can. can maybe come into a cool $10 million, okay? Which is I'm always feeling like, what is the scheme I'm going to do to make $10 million immediately?

And this C-list celebrity comes up to me and says, hi. And I'm like, confused. I'm like, hello. And they're like, I love your dress. When the C-List celebrity said this, I said, oh, my gosh, thank you so much. And she's like, who made it? I said, oh, well, hopefully not some child slave. And because I bought it off like what the equivalent of like African Shee in, I'll be honest.

She's like, oh my God, you're so funny. I'm like, thank you so much. I wasn't kidding, though. And I'm like, who made your address? You know, I'm having conversation. She's like laughing a little too hard. I'm like, honestly, like, I'm not that funny. She's like, oh, my God, you've got to be my partner.

You've got to be my partner. No. And I was like, oh, no, no, no. You know, I really am like keeping it low key here. Like, I'm not really trying to be seen. I was like, that's so sweet. She was like, no, no, no, you've got to be my partner. You've got to be my partner.

And like, you have to come to dinner with us. Like, we, you know, get a table at this like really expensive restaurant that's like in the town that this festival is in. And like, you have to come with us. And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. Like, I'm a critic actually. She so insist. I walk away for a little bit because I'm trying to avoid her. her now, you know, very sweet, but I'm like, I don't want to be part of this. No, it's too much.

And I'm telling the friend that I came with, I was like, I think it's time to go. I'm getting asked questions like, will you come to dinner with me? You know what I mean? Like, I'm... With me and my partner. Right. As I'm like trying to find my friends and gather the group and exit, our friend finds me, our Ciless Celebrity friend. And she's like, where are you going? She drags me to her partner and is like, honey, honey, honey, I have someone I need you to meet. The partner turns around. And it's like this aid list actor that I will not name, like, on the record, but I will tell you later, Rachel. And it is so awkward because they're like, hey, I'm so-and-so. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, this is kind of like the person I don't really want to be associated with.

But then he's like, I would love if you come to dinner with us. You really should. We'd love to hang out with you. And I was like, this desperation is so crazy to me. And later when I was telling my boyfriend about this, he was like, wait, I wonder if, like, they wanted to have a threesome with you. Yeah, 100%. Wait, I thought that was the established vibe of we saw your vibe across the room. I will say, I cannot fault either one of these individuals because you're so beautiful and funny and smart. I would also see your vibe across the room and be like,

hey, do you want to hook up with me and my partner? So I get it. Love you. That gossip was so good. Oh, my wife. Thank you. I really wanted to deliver for you, my queen Rachel. And you did. I feel delivered. And now I'm here to deliver you. Oh, my God. I can't wait to hear what you have in store. Are you ready for from gossip? Yes. I'm going to be taking notes. We're going to be connecting dots here. Okay. Today, our friend of a friend is named Chade. Oh, wow. Incredible. And that's... That's a gift. One of my favorite artists. Chatei, if you're listening to this, please, I would do anything for you to go on tour again. I would pay a lot of money.

Well, before we get into the gossip, I have to ask, what is your favorite Chade song? Don't ask me to pick my favorite child. I won't be answering that on the record. God, Rachel, is trying to set me up. You're right. I'm so sorry. I'll send myself up, because I think mine is, is it a crime? I can hear that now. Same, not least, because it's also a working alternative. title for today's episode. So, our friend of a friend Shade does not just share a name with the more famous Shade. Our friend Shade is also Nigerian, Yoruba, to be specific. And just like the OG Shade, our friend Shade loves to sing.

Sorry, I'm also West African, so obviously I'm already feeling kinship. These two things that Shade is Yeraba and that she loves to sing are arguably the two most important things to know about her. Okay. But some other important things to know about Shadee is that she is a child of immigrant parents. So she is second generation. She has got two siblings who, quite frankly, do not matter to the story. What does matter is knowing that Shadee is the eldest daughter. Oh my gosh. Hey, am I Shade? No, I'm kidding. I'm from Ghana. So that's not correct. Well, Lovia, you seem to have some experience. If you had to describe the stereotypical eldest daughter of immigrant parents,

how would you? Okay. You know, I know there's a lot going on on the internet right now about eldest daughters. Okay, there are a lot of memes, there are counter memes, parentalification, and all of it is true. Every single one of them. True. To be the eldest daughter in an immigrant household is to carry the team, is to be a project manager. It's to be managing editor. It's to be CEO. Okay. C-O. Maybe even CFO. Okay. And it's third

parenting, right? But then you have like a moment where you're like, wait a minute, these aren't my kids. Wait a minute. I had nothing to do with these people being here. Right. And you're talking about your siblings and your parents. Yeah. So it might not surprise you to learn that when Chade was choosing colleges, she chose the one that gave her the most financial aid and that was the furthest away from where her parents lived in Houston. Exactly. She's so smart. She is so smart because this winds up being Stanford.

Oh, okay. And she's a genius? Girl, pack it up. Shade's major is irrelevant to the story. Okay. What is relevant is that within a few weeks of arriving on campus, Shade joins everyday people. Stanford's only hip-hop, R&B, Motown, and Seoul,

a cappella group. They're doing so much. I love that. One group, all of it. Yes. How do you feel about Acapella? I feel like we both came of age around the Glee pitch perfect boom. I did dress up as a Glee cheerleader for high school Halloween.

Okay. I can't sing. I'm tone deaf, actually, famously. Same. I have a love-hate relationship with Acapella because on a fundamental level, it's so corny. But then it really does something to me because it's so akin to gospel, right? I'm like, I love a choir. I love a situation.

Okay, ensemble voices and we're all singing and we're getting higher and higher and it feels like we're in church. So I'll admit that it's a tense relationship. I accept it. I have a lot of friends who do Acapella if you're listening. I'm sorry. Like, I get it. But it's sort of like, it just sometimes has a little bit too much proximity to theater kids. And I love the theater.

And I have a challenging relationship with the theater kids. Lovia, as always, you're so smart. Everything you say, I'm like, and you know what, correct. What a well-considered answer that I want 100% agree with. I'm so glad you're here. Oh, my God, I'm so happy to be here. I'm already like creating scenarios for Shaday. I don't even know her.

And that is the point of this show is to create scenarios based on very little information. Yes, yes. So here's where I admit that I have never seen a whole episode of Glee. I will say that I did used to listen to the. Gwee Pandora Station. Wow. The Uptown Girl cover low-key whips.

Anyway, Shade joins everyday people, and this comes to define her college experience. It's where she meets some of her closest friends, and it is also where Shadee meets Jeremy. Jeremy is a feminist gender and sexuality studies major.

He is the child of two Californian hippies who had a secret fondness for disco and Motown, which is how he finds himself singing tenor. and everyday people. And the best way to describe Jeremy's whole vibe is I'm going to play a video and I'm going to ask if you can tell me if it rings the bell. It's some people hating big time, but it's people hating on this campus.

You are freaking African-Americans plus Mark. You know what I'm saying? I'm rocking with Mark because Mark is rocking with us. Okay. Hey, we all have a mark in our lives. And we share a mark. We do share a mark. I won't see too much on that.

But I love that meme. And I actually sent that to our mark recently. And I said, this is you. This is you. Yeah. Could you subscribe that video? Like, what is a mark? Oh, my God.

Iconic, iconic TikTok of a coach basically talking to a room full of black men. And then this white man, who's it, Ginger? And the coach is saying, we are freaking African-Americans, okay? And then the camera, just in such a delicious way, pans to the redhead and Mark. Okay. And we're rocking with Mark because what? Mark's rocking with us. And I think that is a video about solidarity.

Okay? Yes. So most black people, I think, know at least one white person like this. Yes. We share one in common. And it is a white person who is coming. being the only white person in the room and does not feel the need to point out that they are the only white person in the room. So this is one of the many things about Jeremy that catches Chade's eye.

He's also sort of sneakily really funny. Like, he's not the loudest person in the room by any means, but when he does crack a joke, everyone laughs. And he also never seems to get ruffled, even when everyone's like melting down during their studio album recording, because, of course, everyday people has multiple studio records. Lovia, you were definitely in student organizations in school. I don't even have to ask. What are the vibes when the big deadline is coming up? Student organizations are, to me, like, what I imagine the White House would be during a crisis.

It's completely fabricated. It's just, like, a completely manufactured urgency. You're putting a bunch of, essentially teenagers and you're, like, take charge. So you have this combination of, like, the White House control room and Lord of the Flies. leadership is huge. People suddenly take their positions incredibly seriously. And you're right. You're right. Shadei's response to stress is a tactic, I think, is called ostriching, which is the stick your head in the sand approach. Shadee is like, if I pretend I do not see it, it cannot hurt me.

But this is why Shadee is so impressed that Jeremy kind of just let everything roll off his back. Like, when they were putting together their tracklets for the album, there was this huge, fight about which version of killing me softly the group should record, the Lauren Hill version, or the Roberta Flack version. As you can imagine, this ends up getting really heated. Chade, who has suggested the song is, like, hiding silently in a corner. She's like, maybe if I don't make a single sound, no one will notice me. It's like a T-Rex. Absolutely. Do not be perceived, Charday. Exactly. But from this corner, where Chade is not being perceived, Shade sees Jeremy stand up. And he's like, guys, guys, poor can no less dose. Why pit two?

two bad bitches against each other? What if we did a mashup that pays homage to both of these absolute legends? And then Jeremy takes the opportunity when he has everyone's attention to be like, and I think Shade should sing it. Wow. Politics is

in his future. Jeremy, I don't know where you are now, but hopefully you're running for something because we probably need you, so. He's bringing the world together. Yeah, that was moving. Jeremy's like, Shade's the one who suggested the song for the album. I just think it's fair, which Chate did not think

anyone had noticed. And from there, it is basically history. Like, after rehearsal, Chadee, thanks Jeremy for so kindly suggesting her. And while she's thanking him, she just happened to mention a coffee shop near campus with a great vinyl collection that's been wanting to try. The two date for all four years of college. In their senior a cappella performance, they sing, you're all I need to get by together. Yeah, that's cute. I'm also like, what? But yeah, I'm also, Absolutely like, yeah, absolutely. So cute. It is not until after this so cute performance that Chadee finally decides to tell her parents about Jeremy.

Wow, she's so brave. I would not have done that. The thing is, Chade has met Jeremy's parents plenty of times. Naturally. It's just never been the right time for Chadee to tell her parents about her boyfriend. Graduation is so far away. And now somehow it is a week away. And Chadei has to tell her Nigerian parents not only that she was dating Jeremy, but that they are moving in together after graduation.

Shadee's going to do what? Girl, you actually don't have to be honest. And you know what? That's not something people want to hear. It sounds like you see some problems with this. I mean, I'm seeing my life in this. You know what I mean? Like, I'm projecting, right?

So we're introducing problems where there need not be. Jeremy's just a friend, okay? And when you move in with him far away, he'll be a roommate. Okay. Then if you and Jeremy get married, then you can introduce Jeremy to your parent. I don't know. Like, listen, I tried this with my own. And let's just say, well, that's for it.

We'll get coffee and talk about that, Rachel. Like, okay. Sounds like we'll be getting another kind of drink. Yeah, yeah. But kudos to Shade and whatever. her plan is, I need to see this through. Yeah, so Charday's plan is that when she goes to meet her parents at the airport, she brings Jeremy. Oh, ambush. That's never works, but I love, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, Chade's parents do at first think Jeremy is the driver. This might be because he has combed his

hair back and is wearing a tie because he just wanted to impress Shade's parents. But then they start handing him their bags. That is incredible. Yes. That would happen. And Shade has to be like, mom, dad, stop. This is Jeremy. Shade's mom, Anouli, is like,

hello, Jeremy. Before looking at Shadee and asking, and who is Jeremy? Right. Like, what? This is Jeremy, girl? Oh, my God. I'm stressed.

Shaday is like, Jeremy's my boyfriend. And it's good to do it in a public space, too, because that kind of reduces the reaction because now your parents have to pick between seeming normal in public and also getting whatever they need to get out, you know what I'm saying? So that was strategic. Still not a good plan, but I respect how she did this.

You and Chadee are actually on the same page because this is exactly why she chose to break the news like this. She's never really seen her mom lose it in public until that day. Anuli pops off. all the way from SFO to Paulo Alto. Anuli is beseeching the heavens. She is asking what she did to deserve such a disobedient daughter. Yep.

Yeah. Familiar. Luckily or unluckily, depending on how you think about it, Anuli largely does this in Yoruba, which Jeremy obviously does not understand, and which Shade is like 40% fluent in, so they can't really understand what exactly is going on.

But how in love would you have to be to try to salvage this situation? You kind of have to let your mom go off and it's just sort of like exposure therapy. You know what I mean? Now that you like detonated the news, you know, you've ripped the Band-Aid off,

you know, we're just doing all these metaphors for what is essentially like a catatonic situation. You kind of just have to move forward and level set with your mom, parents, keep Jeremy around. Jeremy has to keep coming around. He has to be sort of an immovable force. And now you and Jeremy can ever break up.

Yeah, I'm going to be honest when I was reading the story, this was the moment where I thought things were really going to go sideways. But somehow, Jeremy actually manages to charm Anouli over the course of graduation weekend. Like, whatever Anouli wants Jeremy is down to get.

She wants the ice cold Coke at 10 p.m. The night before graduation, Jeremy's driving to the nearest. 7-11, no complaints. Like, Anoulli needs help cooking the Jolof rice. Jeremy is chopping the garlic and the peppers and never not once complaining about the spice level, even as he is visibly turning red and sweating profusely. Like, by the time, it's time for Anouli to head home to Houston, and she's asking when

she can start planning the wedding. Anouli's like, if you two are going to insist on living in sin, the least you can do is give me a timeline for when this sin will be rectified. Now, to me, this feels like a huge win. Like, we entered the situation with things being very scary, and now newly is basically on board. But to Shade and Jeremy, this is, in fact, another problem because one of the many things they have bonded over is that neither of them actually care about getting married.

Incredible. Well, remember, Jeremy is a sexuality and gender studies major. He's trying to excise as much patriarchal tradition from his life as possible. And Jeremy's hippie parents had never gotten married. They told him it was an outdated institution and that people who spent thousands of dollars on a wedding were brainwashed. And Shade wouldn't necessarily take it that far either. She was grown up going to Nigerian weddings,

which are very lavish and usually days long. But this also happens to be the exact opposite of what Shadee would pick for herself if she had to get married. Like, she would do a small, intimate affair, which a newly would never accept. So it is easier to just never get married from Shade's perspective. It's just like, it's too relatable. That's too relatable.

Well, since it's so relatable, how many years do you think you could put off your parents badgering you about marriage before you caved? I think that it's really important for immigrant children to reprogram their parents, and so to never cave. But I could put you like to everything my mother says. It's incredible. Rachel's like, you are bullshit. And I am. And I am. My parents didn't want me to move out.

And then I moved out and every day my mom asked me to move back and I haven't lived at home in 10 years and every day she's like when he's moving back. So you can hold them off for a long time. Now, I don't know about Shade's mom. She seems scary. So, yeah. Yeah.

I was also laughing because I have not been tested in this manner yet. And I would like to think that I could hold strong. But as you know, I'm really bad at disappointing people. You don't know me both, sister. You want me both. It helped Shade that she immediately enters a PhD program. And for a long time, she can say she's just too busy studying to plan a wedding. I don't know how old Shadi is, but if she's like 25, I think she could have five years,

but if she hits 30 without a ring, you start getting comments that are a little bit more pointed. You gave five years. It takes about three years into Shade's PhD before things kind of start popping off. And they pop off because Anuli's mother, Shade's grandmother, Patty's grandmother, And the funeral coincides with Shadei's finals, so she's not able to make the trip to Nigeria work on such short notice. As soon as Anouli is backstate side, she is calling Shade every other day, talking about how everyone back home kept asking her why her eldest daughter wouldn't get married and how sad it was that her mother had not lived to see her first grandchild get married. And would Shade please hurry up and get married before someone else died? This is a thing about our cultures and we have to free ourselves, like as a piece. You know, like, you know, I'm speaking to my West Africans, like, the social pressures of marriage, of birth, of death, it's unwieldy.

I know that a large friend of my mother's pressure is like, she wants something to tell her church friends. And I get it. Yeah. So, Shade is in a similar mind frame. She's like, I feel like my mom just wants to give her relatives something to see, something to be able to hold in their hands. So she decides to compromise. The one-year anniversary of her grandmother's passing coincides with her next spring break. So, she proposes to her mother, what if they all took a trip to Nigeria?

Chardin, her parents, her siblings, and Jeremy. They could do something to honor her grandmother on the one-year anniversary. Everyone in the extended family could meet Jeremy and see how committed they were, even without this traditional thing of marriage. And Jeremy would get to visit Nigeria for the first time. It's like killing three. your birth with one's tone. You know those pop culture scandals.

You still can't stop thinking about. Yeah, us too. So we made a podcast about all the ones we can't forget. I'm Sadha and I'm Sarah. We're journalists and self-identified historians of celebrity gossip. On our podcast, The Reheat, we dive into the biggest celebrity scandals of the past and re-examine them with fresh eyes and a whole lot less shame. I never thought I would be a Samantha, but I really, really, really.

connect with her now. And I have learned to empathize with Marvel executives at this point having done this much research. And I believe that... It's like pop culture therapy with your smartest, funniest friends. What do you wear for that important, historic moment? What do you wear for that moment? I do love that. See, now what you're doing is dangerous. You're making me like Kate Middleton and I never thought that I would get there. I feel like the two of you could hang out and have fun. We probably could have a very good time. A very good time. Listen to the reheat wherever you get your podcasts. Anuli actually loves this plan.

Anuli loves this plan so much that she actually offers to plan the whole trip. She books the flights. She makes the itinerary. She even asks Shade for her and Jeremy's measurements because obviously they would need custom clothing for the memorial service because something to honor Shade's grandmother has somehow turned into a whole memorial service that seemingly everyone Anouli knows in Nigeria is invited to. Funerals are basically parties. They're social events, gatherings.

Shade is a little bit annoyed that a huge portion of this trip that she thought of has been co-opted because she hasn't been to Nigeria since she was in middle school and now most of the 10-day trip is accounted for they're going to fly into Lagos spend a couple of days in the city with family

and then travel to a newly's hometown which is a small village about 45 minutes out of the city. So all in all Shade would have like 24 hours to herself and eight of them she would presumably be sleeping. Any concerns so far? You know, I'm not hearing much about Shade's family life, but I know that if I had to spend, and I love my family, for the record.

On the record. But if I had to spend 10 days with extended family in the village, I'm not feeling good about this. But again, you know, Shaddy's mom has surprised me a lot throughout the story. And so I'm hoping I'm going to hold on to that. You hold on to that. The day of the trip comes after over 20 hours of travel, Charday and Jeremy Land in Legos. They barely have time to set their bags down in a cousin's spare room before they have to get ready for the welcome party that is scheduled for the first night. This was the first event that a newly had custom clothing made for.

The dress coat is cocktail attire. Everyone is dressed in their finest. There is enough food to feed an army. The dancing starts almost immediately. And this is the first time Chadee has seen a lot of her families in charge. she was like 12. So it is all a bit overwhelming, along with the fact that everyone is staring at Jeremy. And Chadee obviously knows that Lagos is a very cosmopolitan city, but in that moment, it feels like Jeremy is the only white person for Miles. And the thing is, he's handling it pretty

well. He's doing his very best not to blush too much under all the scrutiny. He's learning how to dance with his hips and not his shoulders. Amazing. It's all very surreal. Yeah. As is the fact that people keep handing gifts to Shade and Jeremy? Oh my gosh. Wait a minute. I'm sorry, Rachel, keep going. I just had like a vision, you know? I won't say it, but you keep going.

Well, the first time it happened, Shadee just figures that it's particularly thoughtful relative, again, she hasn't seen these people in decades. But by the third gift, Shadee is like, what the fuck is going on? Wait, and so a newly planned this. And I'm sure she didn't run anything by Shade or Jeremy. No, of course not. Y'all don't know what you're attending. You don't know what you're attending.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. You don't know what your mother has told these people. Well, Shadei tries to find her mom who's too busy arguing with a vendor about something with the food to talk to Shadee about the gifts. So over her shoulder and newly is like, well, no one has seen you in years since you couldn't come back for the funeral from my one and only mother. Right.

Gaslight her. That's incredible. Gaslight your daughter. I'm with you, Shaday. Shadei's like, Mom, come on, you know why I couldn't come. And Ani's like, of course, I'm just explaining, don't be so sensitive. And Nili's like, these are belated gifts of graduation. You would have received them earlier if you've been able to make time in your busy schedule.

Just set them aside and we'll open them up back in the States. Oh, so we can't open them up right now. Interesting. That is suspicious. You're Shade. What do you do? Okay. This reminds me of like when I graduated from college.

and my parents were like, oh, we're going to take this trip to Ghana. And I was like, I don't have a job. So, like, I don't want to leave the state without a job. But really it was because I was really paranoid that my mom was going to, like, take me to Ghana and, like, steal my passport and, like, keep me there. Okay. And so I just want you to know the level of paranoia I have in my head. And so if me, I'm Shaw Day, I'm thinking that, like,

I'm actually secretly getting married this weekend without my permission, without Jeremy's permission. Because this isn't about me. This is about my mother. So that's what I'm thinking. So the paranoia's taking root. Okay. So now I'm thinking of an escape plan.

Well, remember, Chardin's our beautiful, beautiful ostrich. So she's like, you know what? My mom is probably right. My family is just proud of me. And why wouldn't they be? Shadei graduated from Stanford. She's getting her Ph.D. You know?

Yeah, but let's use those critical thinking skills from Stanford. Shanday. Come on now. Well, the thing is Shade. just trying to get through the night because the next day is her free day and it'll be her first time in Lagos without parental supervision. So this is what Chate is thinking about when halfway through the night, Jeremy pulls her aside. And Jeremy's like, listen, everyone is so nice. The food is incredible. But then he's like, also, no one's like really talking to me. Like, I'll try to have a

conversation and they'll just like hug me and then leave. Also, what's up with the gifts? Shade is like, don't worry, don't worry. It's the first night. They're probably just warming up to you. And then she's like, I don't want to think about the gifts. Let's just please go to the beach tomorrow. Shade is like, I need to be by the ocean with a drink in my hand to get through the rest of this trip.

And the thing is, the next day does end up being the highlight of the whole trip. Shade and Jeremy go to the beach. They explore the city. It's so magical that they're like, we have to come back without telling anyone in the family that we are here. Well, how are you feeling so far? Are you anticipating any problems? I'm still stressed, Rachel.

I've been stressed since the airport. I feel like I've communicated this. That stress hasn't left me. I'm literally racking my brain. Like, I'm trying to be like to figure out Anouli right now. Like, in my notes, I have like just three question marks by her name. She's such a wild card. I'm like, actually, this isn't a story about Shade.

This is a story about Anoulli. Like, that's who I'm interested in. I'm, yeah. Well, Shade, again, kind of in a summer place. She had told Jeremy not to worry about the gifts. But they had made Shadei just like a little bit suspicious. So she is on high alert when she and Anouli and Jeremy and her family get to the village. And the thing is, Shadei is almost immediately vindicated because as soon as they roll into town,

she and Jeremy are immediately separated and made to sleep in different houses. When Shadei confronts her mother about this, Anouli is like, you can live in sin in the city. Lord knows what goes on there. But here, in the place where my mother is buried, Why don't I just drive you to her grave so you can spit on it? Yep. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. West African mothers. I love them so much. They need to be studied. You know, some of our greatest artists, both in terms of the narrative and the emotional manipulation.

I love it. Yeah. There is not much Shidey feels like she can say to this. Yeah. Well. Your mom just said, go spit on your grandmother's grave. Like, yikes. So, Chade is still on high alert, which she does end up feeling just a little bit bad about,

because on their second day in Anouli's hometown, Anouli does actually drive her and Jeremy into her mother's grave so that Chade can give her proper respects. As Chade places flowers on her grandmother's grave, Anouli is overcome by emotion, like she almost faints from grief. Shade is like, you know what? Grief isn't linear. I should go easy on her. And the thing is, it ends up being a really lovely day.

A newly gives Shade and Jeremy a whole tour of her hometown. She shows them her mother's house and where she went to school. And the day goes so well that when Anouli tells Shade that the memorial service the next day will be followed by a large reception for the entire extended family, Shade doesn't even really ask any questions. In fact, the only question Shade asks is when Anouli tells her that she will need to dress in the formal Nigerian garments that Anouli had a custom made for her for the memorial service. Shadei's not even seen these garments yet, but the only question you asked Anuli is, what about Jeremy? What is he, what is he wearing? He brought jeans. Anouli's like, don't worry about him. He'll be getting ready with the rest of the men. Don't make sure he's properly attired.

Okay, a new thought just came into my head. What if this is their engagement party? I'm still like, I'm just like, as you can see, I'm still set on this being some form of manipulation. But yeah, I just want you to know where I'm at right now. I thought wedding, but maybe I should have gone one step before. Would you have follow-up questions here? Absolutely. I'm asking, how big is this reception?

What does the garment look like? What am I wearing? What are you wearing? What's the family wearing? Are we matching? Are we complimenting? Is it white? Shadei is wondering if she should be asking more questions,

especially when she does finally see the clothes that Anouli had made for her, which are far fancier than Shade had anticipated. Like, they're made from this luxurious white and gold fabric. White and gold. It's elaborately beaded. It matches Anouli's garments, which are also white and gold with coral accents. Shade's aunts and girl cousins are also dressed in the nines, but when Shade joins them to get her hair and makeup done,

she sees that no one else is wearing white and gold, just her and Anouli. Anouli has an explanation for this, though. Anouli and her sisters had all coordinated so that everyone wore the same colors as their kids, and Shade has so many cousins that she is actually not entirely sure which aunt is whose mom. So she's like, it could be true. I don't know who belongs to who here. Oh my gosh. Anouli has a career, I think, as a federal agent,

And we should, we should revisit that at the end of the story. Shadei is starting to get a sort of uneasy feeling. Should Shadee do anything about this uneasy feeling? Is there anything she can do? Asking mom direct questions, like, is this an engagement party? Are people expecting me to be betrothed? Am I secretly getting married? Just, like, kind of hit, you know, get the paranoid, my paranoid thoughts out.

the way. And Seagold answers come from those really specific and direct questions. I started this episode by saying you always ask the best questions. Shade's uneasy feeling only increases when she sees the venue for the memorial service. It is a massive great hall, like it is objectively the biggest building in the whole village. It's been decked out with massive floral arrangements and lots of gold accents. And as a newly ushered Chadeh into the Greyhall, Shade can't help noticing that the vibe does not seem all that sad. Like, yeah, her grandmother had died a whole year ago.

Time heals all wounds. But the atmosphere in the venue is downright joyous. When Chaudet arrives with her mom and aunts and cousins, there's music playing, there's champagne flowing. Champagne. Wow. And, you know, this is when I start asking the vendors questions, if I'm not getting a direct answer from my family.

Okay, if someone out there holding this champagne, I'm going to be like, hey, like, just a quick question, like, what were you hired for? Like, what event? You know what I mean? Like, you have to kind of get into your investigative journalism bag and start doing some recon. Okay. Well, it is as Chade is getting hustled into a side room to put the finishing touches on her makeup that she sees Jeremy for the first time since the previous day. He is surrounded by Chaudet's two brothers and her dad and her uncles and male cousins. He's wearing in Agbada and looking just as confused as Chade feels. And it is at this moment that Chadee decides, I need to pull my head out of the sand. Let's go.

That's right, baby girl. They're finishing their makeup, and Chadee is like, Mom, what the fuck is going on? This does not feel like a memorial service. Why is everyone so happy? And Aniouli, she rolls her eyes to the heavens, and she's like, Lord, please grant my ungrateful daughters and good sense, especially on a day like

today that marks a year since my mother left this earthly realm. Is Shadda not thinking about any of that? Did she bump her head on the way over? Oh, also Anouli says, don't forget, the entire memorial service is going to be in Europe. Yeah, you see, and this is why you have to ask direct questions. The open-ended, what's going on doesn't really work because there leaves too much room for deflection. Okay, whatever you're suspicious of you, ah, it's fine, it's fine.

I sound like a broken record. Please carry out. What option? So you think Chadee has here, if any? Again, I'm just feeling like the window is closing, okay, for escape. Like, one thing about me is that sometimes I end up in a situation and I'm sort of just like, I guess this is my fate now. And that's not great.

You know, you want to be someone who's like acting in the moment who feels like at any single point you couldn't turn around. But it just feels like she's really in deep. Now I'm kind of like, we have to see this play out. Got to see it through. Now we've just get through. The fact of the whole ceremony is going to be in Europa is very wild. Yeah, because, and we said, what, Shadee's like 40% good at your robot?

I mean, you could be legally bound to something you don't know about. I don't know. Giving village wedding or engagement. I'm still on that, but yeah. Well, Anouly then insists as her mother's first granddaughter, Shadei entered the hall very last. I enter the hall very last. I cannot. I can't.

This is the last draw for Shade. And she's like, I am not doing anything until you tell me the truth. This is not a memorial service, is it? Because at this point, Shadee can see her aunts and cousin starting their procession through the hall. Right. They're lying. Shade, I can't believe it took me this long, but it's fine. Like, yeah, wow.

Okay. The hall is filled with people. possibly everyone in Nulie's hometown has shown up. A song starts playing that Shadei has only heard in one specific context. She turns to Anuli and is like, Mom, you cannot do this to me. Because

the song that is playing is distinctively bridal. Yeah, girl, I mean, at this point, you're looking to your mom, but, like, you're in it. Like, we should have been asking these questions earlier. We should have, before you got to the village, you should have just absconded.

I don't know. tell you, like... Yeah, as you correctly guessed, what Anouli has spent months planning is not a memorial service for her late mother, but a wedding for her stubborn daughter. She has somehow conned her entire family into colluding with her by telling them that Chade and Jeremy obviously knew and consented to what was going on, but Jeremy didn't like being the center of attention, so everyone needed to be as discreet as possible,

which is why no one was really talking to that much. Wow. Oh, my gosh. Shaday is like, mom, what have you done? And Anouli says, I'm so sorry to have tricked you. But then she's like, you're not going to make a fool of your mother, are you? Everyone is here. I think you have to break out into song.

I think that you and Jeremy have to start singing. And I think you just, yeah, you just sort of do something, I don't know. I'm panicking. Are you going to make a fool of your mother? Oh my God. Me personally, no. And you know what? This story's making me realize, like, I'm still oppressed.

I guess I'm going along with it. But the right answer, the more courageous answer, is to break out into song and just sort of stun people. And then tap the answer right out of the venue. And then run. And start running. Yeah. Shade really considers it.

She really does consider having her runaway bride moment. Yeah. But she can see Jeremy waiting for her at the altar, and she's like, I can't abandon him. Girl, what? And for those who don't know, there's a Nigerian wedding custom where guests spray the happy couple with money, and the bride does not smile until she is satisfied with what she's gotten. And so in this moment, Shadei turns to her mother. And she's like, tonight, when your entire family is showering us with money, I will stand there unsmiling until all your brothers are poor.

Okay, wow, this just really took a turn. And I mean, the other thing I'm thinking, again, just trying to get my girl Shade out of it, it's like, how legally binding is this union if it's in the village? That's a great question. Anuli is like, whatever you want, my sweetest daughter. And then she basically shoves Shade down the eye. Kyle. Poor sweet Jeremy has just been waiting at the altar with the officiant who starts speaking in Yoruba once Shadei joins them. I'm also like, is Jeremy asking any questions? I'm sorry. Not like, I know not too much on Mark, but like, are you concerned?

Jeremy whispers for Shadee. You look beautiful. And then he's like, is this a wedding? Oh my God. Shadee's like, I am so sorry. My mom. is crazy. And Jeremy's like, we can leave right now if you want. Like, just say the word. Right. That's the first more thing you said,

Jeremy. And maybe the first thing you said all story. She's been silenced. And again, Chate does consider it. But then she's like, this probably isn't even valid in the United States, right?

And from the altar, Shade can see how happy her whole family looks, including a newly who is like openly weeping at this point. Okay, so now she's okay with lying. Like, it's just like you should have kept Jeremy a secret.

Okay, it's fine. I'm judging Chadee, but it's because I care. And so Chate is like, we're already here. Let's just go with it and we can figure this out once it's over. And so they do. Jeremy and Chade get married. The wedding ceremony ends and the party begins. And listen, no one has ever accused Nigerians of not knowing how to party.

So it is a pretty fucking incredible party. Incredible enough that Chate doesn't even get a chance to talk to her husband, Jeremy, until later that night. Because now that they're married, they're officially allowed to sleep in the same room. A win is a win. And the thing is, they very much are married because sometime during the party, Jeremy had had a chance to look up whether weddings performed in Nigeria were legally valid in the U.S. And they are, turns out. No. When Chadee finds us out, she starts packing.

She's like, I cannot be in the presence of my mother right now. We have to leave tonight. Yeah. And Jeremy's like, that is so fair. But then Jeremy's like, I don't know. I kind of had a lot of fun tonight. And we made a lot of money. Your cousins are teaching me how to dance.

The loss of money is crazy. Jamby's like, we've already been married against our will. What is the worst that could possibly happen now? Okay. I mean, famous last words, but sure. Shade is like, you know what? It's not like my mother can get pregnant on our behalf.

Maybe you're right. Maybe we can just finish out the rest of the trip. I want to ask, how long would it take for you to forgive your mother for doing something like this? Okay, wow. I mean, forgiveness is such an interesting concept, right? especially between mothers and daughters. And, like, that's my interest. Like, we're always talking about mothers and daughters.

Oh, yeah. We're always talking about mothers and daughters. Like, because, you know what I? I love books about mothers and daughters. TV shows about mothers and daughters. I mean, is Shade really even mad? Like, that's my question. It's really not giving that.

And so maybe it won't take her that long to forgive. You guys don't see my quotes around forgive. But I heard them. I wouldn't be in the situation. I'm going to be on. I wouldn't be in the situation because I would have left that first night in Lagos because I would be suspicious. And so I don't know how I answered this question because it just really wouldn't be me.

That is so real. You did say at one point that you would have gotten married in this situation. I would like to say it. Classics like 20 minutes ago. You did say. I did say I'd do it for the bit. Okay, so let's say I am in the situation. I did it for the bit.

I'm just so, maybe like, something's happening to me right now. I'm so overcome. I'm so impressed by Anuli that I can't even really be mad. I'm just like, this is incredibly clever. And if I'm Chaudet, this is probably not the first time my mother has betrayed me in some really deep traumatic way. So it's just kind of adding it to the list of things I'm talking to my therapist about when I get back to the States. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does take Chatee a while. Like she and her mom basically do not speak for the rest of the trip. Oh. Shade goes no contact for four months. And then Anouliuioio apologized. It's after four months. of no contact. Anuli is like,

your grandmother wanted so badly to see you married, and I just went a little crazy after she died. She's like, I'm so sorry to have deceived you, but you've granted your mother her one most treasured wish, and I promise I'll never ask for anything again. Right, until she started asking for a kid, but Anouli got what she wanted

so she can apologize. Yeah, nice. I put apologies in air quotes for those who can't see. Shadei is like, I'm going to remember you said that, and then she makes Anouliu promised to never mention this in front of Jeremy's parents. Because she's like, to them, we're not married. And then Charday makes a promise to herself to never go on another trip planned by her mother.

As you correctly guessed, a few years after the wedding, Anouli does start asking when Charday and Jeremy are going to have kids. And all Chade has to say is, I'm sure you're not asking you for anything else. Are you, Mom? And Anouly backs off for a couple of weeks. And then she starts again. Wow. I'm thinking about their friends.

I'm thinking about Shadi and Jeremy's friends. Like, they didn't come to the wedding. I forgot about Jeremy's parents, low-key, so that was a good reminder. I'm thinking about Shadi's little brothers, useless. Like, where are they in this? As a sister of a little brother,

they knew we are. Right. Okay. That's the end of our story, Love ya. Rachel, this actually triggered me. I got ahead of myself. Like I started to feel things. It's like my survival instincts came into play.

You know what I mean? Fight or flight. Like it really activated my fighter flight. Yeah, Shadei. I'm babes, wherever you are, I'm going to need you to ask different questions. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at NormalGossip at Defector.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip.

If you love this podcast, I want to support it. us become a friend or a friend of a friend at support normalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at NormalGossip. You can follow me on all social media at Hey Denei, H-E-Y-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragly Ritz and Jay Tolviera. Our audio engineer is Samantha Gatsick. The co-creators and Dowager Queens of Normal Gossip are Kelsey McKinney and Defector's Supervester Supervising Producer Alex Sujohn Loughlin. Justin Ellis is DeFector's Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's Business Guide. Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief.

Dan McLeod runs our merch store, which you can find at NormalGossip. Dot Store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Brandy Jensen, David Raw, Catherine Shue, Serena Imbler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rodo for your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. DeFector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and remember, you didn't hear this for me.