Normal Gossip - LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

Rebecca Jennings accompanies us to LARP Camp for a tale of dice, ghosts, and forbidden love. Pre-order Rebecca's book Be The Bombshell: What Love Island Teaches Us About Dating here and follow her on Instagram here. Get your tickets for the Normal Gossip Live tour here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here. Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here!Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

[♪ MUSIC PLAYING somehow halfway through the season. Can you believe it? I can't. I know that strikes fear into some of y'all's hearts because it means the end of the season's approaching, but I've got some great news for those of you who want even more normal gossip, which I hope is all of you. This fall, Sierra and I are going on tour for the first time this September. We are bringing normal gossip to nine different cities.

We are stopping in New York, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Denver, Dallas, Austin, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Tickets go on sale to the public on Friday, May 9th. But if you're listening to this episode before then, I've got some extra special news. You can buy your tickets right now in an exclusive 48-hour pre-sale if you go to normalgossiplive.com and use the promo code GOSSIP25 before 10 a.m. local time on Friday, May 9th. I know I just tossed a lot of numbers at you, so let me say it again.

If you happen to be listening to this episode before 10 a.m. on Friday, May 9th, and you want to guarantee you get a ticket, you can buy your tickets early in an exclusive pre-sale if you go to normalgossiplive.com and use the promo code GOSP25. If you're listening after that, have no fear. Tickets are on sale to the public at normalgossiplive.com starting Friday, May 9th. This is my very first live tour. It is a year first for me and I am so, so excited

to take this show on the road and meet some of y'all. That is all the housekeeping business I got for today's show. Now onto the main event today. I'm so, so excited to be joined by Rebecca Jennings. Rebecca is a features writer at New York Magazine and she's got a book coming out on May 27th that is all about one of my favorite topics, Love Island. Rebecca's book is called Be the Bombshell and it's a cheeky, laugh out loud playbook to navigating singlehood by embracing the absolute 10 out of 10 proper fit, total bombshell that you are. Rebecca, hello! Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you so much for having me. I love nothing more than to gossip. Wow, you guessed my first question, which is, what is your relationship to gossip? It's almost like this question has been asked before. Oh my gosh. Recently, gossip has been making me really paranoid. Like every time I hear people gossip, like 95% of me is like, Oh my god, yes, like this is what human beings do. This is what human communication is, is what friendship is. And then the other 5% is like, well, if they're saying this about one person, like, what are they saying about me? I think that's real. And I would say that is you empathizing with the subject of the

gossip. Yeah, this makes me an empath. Exactly. Let's flip it around. Let's reverse it. Thank you so much. Yeah, but it's like like I feel like this is a newer thing with me. Like it just is making me really anxious and paranoid a lot. So I'm glad that we're talking about this in a safe space where gossip is being condoned and entertainment for all. Well it sounds like your relationship with gossip is changing over time.

That at first it felt kind of just like this is fun and, and now is it, do you think you're like, at a more public time in your life? Like, do you think there is more in your life to gossip about than maybe previously? Yeah, um, and this is because I am about to get married. I know that there are all these group chats that don't involve me about like, people, and it's also, I'm having a destination wedding

and everyone like, on TikTok all the time, I see people like, if you're at, if'm having a destination wedding and everyone like on TikTok all the time, I see people like, if you're at, if you have a destination wedding, you're a shitty person. And I'm like, oh cool, love that. All my friends probably hate me. But no, it's like, you know, people planning

about when they're arriving and what they're doing and which is totally normal and fine. But meanwhile, it's making me like, oh my God, everyone's so mad at me for having a wedding. And meanwhile, it's like, they're doing the kindest thing in the world by like showing up for me and celebrating me. And that just makes me like, oh my God, everyone's so mad at me for having a wedding. And meanwhile, it's like they're doing the kindest thing in the world by like showing up for me and celebrating me. And that just makes me like, oh my God, they all secretly hate me.

And so, you know, like whenever you're at a time in your life where people are constantly saying like congratulations to you, you're like, oh, and then there's a side chat like outside because they're like, oh my God, she is being obnoxious again. She's being a whatever. And this is completely in my head.

Rebecca, I think we might share some of the same head. I understand exactly where you're coming from in that I find it very hard to be happy. Which is something I've talked about with my therapist. The hardest thing in the world, quite frankly, is to actually just embody being happy and people around you being happy because my little rat brain is just like something's going wrong and if the actual events aren't going wrong, then something's going wrong with the people involved.

Yes. And it's that they hate me because I have expressed a need and an emotion. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes even when I haven't, like, I haven't expressed anything, but I'm like, but that I should have, or like I should have done a different thing. What would that other person have done? And this is also, I was reading How Should a Person Be,

which is an entire novel of this woman just thinking that the whole time. It's like, I should be more like her. No, I should be more like him. No, I should be more like her. And I'm just like, yeah, I relate. Yeah. Wow. I get it. This feels like therapy. I know. I have a tendency to do that.

You sound like a perfect gossip. When it can never get back to me and when it doesn't involve me and when it's like mostly like fun. Yes. Love. Love, love, love. I mean, speaking of being a perfect gossip, a little birdie told me that you have some gossip for me. Okay, so I asked one of my group chats,

I was like, yo, like I'm going on normal gossip, what should I say? I'm going to steal one of my friend's bathroom stories. Ooh. So my friend, we'll call her Claire, she was known in college for like only ever taking a shit at her own house. Like she would never ever take a shit anywhere else. And so she's about to graduate and she goes to this like graduation party and it's like

at this like crappy college house. And she's like, okay, like I'm about to graduate. Like I need to be an adult and actually take a shit somewhere that isn't my personal toilet. So she goes into this bathroom, and you can probably guess where this is going, the shitty pipes. It does not flush.

And she's freaking out. There's someone banging on the door outside, and she's like, oh my God, freaking out, freaking out. She does the thing, because any person who's shy about that like that's this is their worst fear and they will like study how to what to do when this happens but nothing was working and she leaves and she's like someone's banging on the door and she leaves and she's like no no don't go in there like someone see i was i was trying to fix it but someone like took a shit in there and they're like ew who would do that and then like they got the host over and they're

like oh my god that's so crazy that someone would do that and just leave it there. She's like, yeah, I know. And then the host was like, well, I know it wasn't you because you never take a shit anywhere else. And so she was like, oh my God, I just got away with this. And to this day, her friends have no idea that it was her. And I think that if she ever gives a toast

for someone's birthday or wedding or something, she should be like, and by by the way that shit was mine that is Incredible both that she got away with it. Yeah that she tried something new and that this Probably created gossip for that community for a while It was like you who clogged the toilet I know this party and I really hope that one of them is listening right now, because that would just be really fun.

We know who it was. Well, that was some phenomenal gossip. And now I have some for you. Are you ready? Oh my god, I'm so ready. Support for normal gossip comes from Airbnb. It's been a while since I've taken a proper break and gotten out of town, so lately I've been daydreaming about a trip to Quebec City.

I mean, we've got cobblestone streets and cozy cafes and all that gorgeous French architecture. Yes, please. And for those like me who are planning or even daydreaming about a trip, I would recommend hosting on Airbnb. While you're off exploring places like Old Quebec or eating your Wheaton poutine, your place back home could be earning you

some extra travel money. Hosting is practical, flexible, and honestly, kind of a no-brainer if you're going to be away. Got a trip coming up? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Today our friend of a friend is named Ash. And there are three important things to know about Ash. The first is that he has just finished his junior year studying fine arts with a specialization in ceramics. The second, which is related to the first, is that he's having a hard time finding a summer job.

The third and the most important fact about Ash is that Ash is so hyper aware that this is his last summer. That this is the summer before his senior year of college, before he has to be in an adult, before he has to worry about taxes. He's like, this is it. Do you remember this summer? Yeah, we had a bed bug. And so like both of like me and my roommate had to like move in with like the dudes we were seeing at the time. It was horrible. One bed bug ruined my life for several months. Oh my god.

Never get bed bugs. Yeah. That is my worst fear. Yeah. It was bad. This was back when the bed bugs were the number one issue facing New York City. Now there's others. A simpler time?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Ash is determined to have a capital A adventure that hopefully does not include bed bugs. He has spent every summer since he was 15 working at the Dairy Queen in his hometown, which is fun in its own way, but it doesn't give, like, capital A adventure.

Which is how Ash finds himself applying to a bunch of overnight summer camp counselor jobs. Our friend, our friend told us, quote, it felt like that was the best way for me to get paid like a grownup while being able to live out the feral child summer of my dreams. Mm hmm. Love that choice. Okay. What do you think of our friend, our friend's logic here? I think that's so fun. I've always like wanted to do that.

Having never gone to like a sleep away camp or a summer camp like that, I'm like, oh my God, parent trap. Like, I want that. So I totally get this. Same. I love parent trap. Yeah. So Ash applies to at least a dozen camps, but he has no child care experience, which means he isn't a super qualified candidate.

The one camp Ash here is back from is called Camp Gondor. And Camp Gondor is an eight-week-long summer LARPing camp for kids from age 10 to 16. Yeah, for Lord of the Rings, I assume. It's a fantasy camp, but for our listeners, you might be unfamiliar. Could you tell me what LARPing is? Oh, I thought you were going to say tell us what Gondor is. LARPing is live action role playing. It's like when you are kind of doing improv, but it's a game, sort of like D&D, but you're

wearing costumes and you're running around and stuff and sword fighting. Exactly. And as you correctly guessed, and is perhaps obvious from the name, which for legal reasons is spelled G-O-N-E-D-O-O-R. Oh, okay. Jesus. We are not getting sued by Tolkien here.

But Camp Gondor isn't just a LARPing camp, it is specifically a fantasy LARPing camp. So there are courses on archery and swordplay. There are afternoons spent learning elvish and how to identify plants with medicinal qualities. Oh my god, I'm so jealous. I'm jealous of Ash. I want to do this so bad. This is basically a camp for parents trying to get their video game addicted kids outdoors and doing a physical activity. Yeah, it's like how to not raise incels but still meeting them where they're at. Exactly! Ash doesn't have any history with fantasy larping. His specific form of nerdery comes in the form of Greek mythology. But he feels like there is enough

adjacency, you know, like swords, gods, gay type shit, for Ash to get read in fairly quickly. Whoever was reading the applications that summer was like, yeah, close enough. Yeah, this is who you want at your fantasy LARPing camp. You want Ash, the Greek mythology guy. And Ash is offered a position as an assistant prop master for Camp Gondor. Do you think LARPing as a camp counselor at LARPing camp is a good idea?

I mean, yeah, that's kind of how you have to approach it. It's like you're kind of doing immersive performance art. I love that choice. It's avant-garde, actually. Yeah. What he's giving these kids should be paying for. I mean, they are paying for it, I guess. He's included in the price. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Some important things to know about Camp Gondor. It was founded 50 years ago by a couple that we will be referring to as the King and Queen. And the King and Queen poured their hearts and souls into Camp Gondor. They're in their 70s now and slowing down. And a few years back, they turned the day-to-day operations of Camp Gondor over to their son, the Prince. Oh my god. The Prince does not give a single fuck about his parents' freaky little role-playing hobby.

Oh no. The Prince also got his MBA role-playing hobby. Oh, no. The prince also got his MBA from Wharton. Oh, no. He's going to, like, private equity the shit out of this camp. Oh, my god, these poor little incels, babies. Yeah, the prince unironically identifies with Kendall from Succession.

OK. OK. And Camp Gondor makes pretty good money, so he's fine running it. I would watch an HBO Sunday night show Okay, okay. And Camp Gondor makes pretty good money, so he's fine running it. I would watch an HBO Sunday night show about succession of Camp Gondor, I'm just saying. Same, someone call me.

So this is the situation our friend or friend is entering, succession at Camp Gondor. Do you have any concerns for him? I have a lot of concerns because I feel like these kids and including Ash are too gentle for Gondor Kendall. So to be fair to Ash, he didn't know about the royal family of Gondor until he arrived on the camp grounds in early June. He has just finished a self-administered crash course in fantasy novels. Like, he has reread Fellowship of the Ring for the first time since he was 10. He's purchased a set of dice,

and he has brushed up on his paper mache skills. So, when Ash arrives at the beautiful lakeside campgrounds of Camp Gondor, he feels as prepared as he possibly can be. He's studied and he is ready for his capital A adventure. Which is great because almost immediately after arriving at Gondor, Ash is introduced to Jeremiah. Hmm. Jeremiah is 23.

He is a counselor for the 13-year-old cabin. This is his fourth year as a counselor at Camp Gondor, so he's extremely knowledgeable, but also super chill about it. Ash told us that Jeremiah was tall and lanky in that adorable gangly way. Awww. And that as soon as Ash saw Jeremiah glumfing across the field with his long legs like Shaggy from Scooby Doo, I was a goner. And that's a direct quote. Oh my god. I ship this so hard, but I know it's not going to end the way I hope it does.

Did you have any cartoon crushes? Mufasa and the hot cats and the aristocats. The tomcat? Yeah. He was so hot. He was. These are all phenomenal choices. So Jeremiah is assigned to give Ash a tour and Jeremiah is not just a pretty face, he is also a phenomenal tour guide. What kind of stuff do you think a camp like this would have?

Oh my god, this is like my dream camp when I was that age. So I hope that it has like a little like a shire, like a little area where they're like, it's all you do is like run around and like dance and they obviously their kids that they can't drink but like probably have like that's probably where like the food is. Yeah. And like cool like forest stuff like tree houses and cool rocks that you can pretend are castles, rivers and like old statues that look like they were there from like a previous age, like crumbling around you from like the Numenoreans. Yeah.

I'm getting the vibe that you would be a great counselor, Camp Gondor. Yeah, you're giving me great ideas for the summer. Jeremiah's giving this tour guide and he's like, here's the cabin, there's the lake, that's the mess hall, normal camp stuff. Then he's like, this is the computer lab. The kids are only allowed in there for an hour a week. An hour a week? Oh my god, these kids are gonna die. Jeremiah's like, that field is for practicing archery. That field is for swordplay. He shows Ash where the cape closet is and where they store the stockpile of SBF75 for their very pale campers.

Jeremiah's like, here's where the EpiPens are. We have a lot of kids with allergies here. If the younger kids want ponies, here's where the broomsticks are at. Oh, that's so gentle. Jeremiah also clues Ash in on all the rules and lore of Camp Gondor. Jeremiah is like, the king and queen were a little overconfident in their ability to repair things, so stuff's a little janky. And he's like, there's something else you should know.

The showers can suddenly go ice cold without warning. Oh no. The beds creak more than you would really like them to. Sometimes they even creak when no one's near them. Ash is like, what? And Jeremiah kind of just rolls his eyes and is like, yeah, honestly, it's a really good idea for you to keep an eye out for stuff like that. We have a lot of overactive imaginations around here. Oh my god.

Wait, was he like, LARPing in this moment? Was he like, there's, it's kind of haunted, but I don't know, like, almost like trying to do improv a little bit? Um, I hope so. Not at this moment. Okay, okay. Because he continues to explain that like a lot of camps, Camp Gondor has just a bunch of camp superstitions.

There's a door in the mess hall that no one uses because it's bad luck. And Jeremiah is like, I'm pretty sure the door was just broken and they didn't feel like repairing it. But also, I don't believe in any of that shit. But also don't use the door. It's not worth the trouble. Would you ask for any more information about these strange happenings? I would want to know what lore these people have.

The bed creaking by themselves, that's what interests me. What are the king and queen thinking about that? Because they seem like real freaks. Like, I need to know everything about these people. And yeah, I bet there's some good lore there. Yeah. Ash is unfortunately too caught up in how cute Jeremiah is to really be paying much attention to anything

specifically he's saying. What Ash does here are the rules Jeremiah said that Prince Wharton instituted for summer staff when he took over. The rules are as follows. No drinking booze on campgrounds. No personalization of the uniforms. And most importantly, staff members are absolutely not allowed to date each other. Ugh.

Okay, this has all the makings for a forbidden romance and it sounds like a movie. Like, I love this. What do you think of these rules? I mean, I think the no personalization thing is the thing that is the weirdest because like if this is a camp where people can be little freaks, like don't you want your counselors to also be little freaks like that doesn't make sense to me. The no booze thing I get it's like there's kids and the no dating I get it on a level where it's like you know you could have a situation where a kid walks in on two people

fucking which is not great. Not great no. In theory like I do get it but like once you once you tell people, like, you're not allowed to date that, then you're just gonna develop crushes on everyone that you work with. I'm sorry, like, just don't even have the rule. You might as well encourage them to date each other because then they won't want to. So Ash isn't a fan of any of these rules, but especially that last one because Jeremiah only gets cuter as the days go on.

Aw, okay. Whenever any of the younger campers have nightmares, Jeremiah is the first counselor they go to. Oh my God, that's so sweet. Jeremiah's hair is growing floppier by the day. Oh my God. Ashes in so, so deep. Oh.

There's just one problem with this crush. Two problems if you count Prince Warren's rule about staff not dating each other, but for that to even be a problem, Ash needs to know whether or not Jeremiah's even queer. Which brings us to a third problem. The story takes place in 2007. Oh my god, okay. Ash had only recently come out himself and has no idea how to ask someone if they are also queer. Oh, okay. So, it's 2007.

You're Ash. You're pretty sure a cute boy might be interested in you, but you need to be absolutely certain before you make a move. Yeah, okay. How would you go about being absolutely certain? Ugh, man. So here's the problem, is that there's no alcohol in this camp. Because that could be solved night one, real quick. Have like three drinks and then being like,

so you're gay, right? Ash is like 65% sure that Jeremiah is flirting with him. Jeremiah is always the first to volunteer to help Ash carry the heavy wooden shield back to the storage shed at the end of the day. The other day, they were practicing swordplay, and when Jeremiah corrected Ash's form, he was just like a little bit touchier than he needed to be.

Like, think that pottery scene from Ghost, but with a wooden sword. Oh, my God. Okay. Love. Do you think Jeremiah's flirting? Like, think that pottery scene from Ghost, but with a wooden sword. Oh my god. OK, love. Do you think Jeremiah's flirting? Is it possible that this might be in Ash's head? No, I think he's flirting.

Also, it seems like in my head, Jeremiah is the kind of guy that like flirts with everybody. Like, flirts with anyone no matter what gender they are, how old they are, like just kind of a flirty, like sweet kind of golden retriever-esque person. So I think that makes it actually a little more difficult to figure out whether that's real flirting or like the kind of golden retriever flirting

that guys like that do with everybody. That's so real. Luckily Ash has an incredible opportunity to gather some more evidence. So one week Jeremiah's co-counselors out sick with a stomach bug during their campers assigned one hour a week in the computer lab. So when Jeremiah asks if anyone would be interested in helping him keep track of his campers,

Ash jumps up just a little bit too fast. The only reason he hesitates at all before volunteering is because of Cody. Have you ever met, like, a really precocious child? Yeah, and they've never been named Cody, but... Continue. Cody is like the class clown. That's real. How would you describe the vibe

of like a super precocious child? Dakota Fanning in like every movie before she was like 12, like a mini adult who's like really uptight and loves to be right and likes to win and likes to be the center of attention but not in a way that like they want people to think they're the center of attention. Yeah. So Cody is one of Jeremiah's campers and before there was the Master of Spiders and Game of Thrones there was Cody. Cody is, but he is way older than his years. He is an only child, so he has spent a little bit

too much time with adults. He's been going to Camp Gondor since he was nine years old. He was such a talented D&D player that he was allowed to start a year earlier than was technically allowed. I love this kid. I hope that if I have kids that I have a weird D&D prodigy. I will say his parents also made a sizable donation at Camp Gondor that year. All of this could have made Cody obnoxious, but he's more of a chaotic good on the alignment chart. The counselors have like a love-hate relationship with him.

Mostly love because he's, like, pretty funny and he's so charismatic that if he's on their side, then he makes it easier to kind of, like, corral the other campers. Sometimes hate because it is very clear that Cody loves knowing more about what's going on at camp than the counselors. He loves knowing more about what's going on at camp than the counselors. He loves knowing all the gossip. And Cody also has a tendency to just go a little too far sometimes.

Oh my god. What kind of obsession do you think a child like this would have? The child like that wants to be an adult and like wants to like do whatever the adults are doing, know about like dating and crushes I'm sure. If you're 12 you already care about that, but especially if it's like if you're obsessed with adults you want to know like who's fucking. And also like you know wanting to like tell the other campers what to do and finding ways to get that.

Yeah. I'm rooting for Cody. Cody's current obsession is like paranormal shit. OK. He has started spending his designated hour in the computer lab researching the history of the campgrounds, looking for stories of campers who have gone missing. This is a journalist and I hope wherever he is, he is like an investigative reporter. wherever he is, he is like an investigative reporter. He is so deep into this that he has brought the rest of his cabin into this obsession. So that's what they spend their hour

at the computer lab doing. Do you think it's wise to let children with overactive imaginations look for dead children? Normally no, but for Cody, yeah. Cody's like doing work. Like Cody is like contributing to the science of paranormal studies. Ash is just happy that they are all quietly occupied

because this gives him time to chat up Jeremiah. Mm-hmm. What kind of questions would you be asking if you're trying to figure out if someone liked you? I mean, first of all, I would want it like, I would want to know their dating history. I think I'm like, are you dating anybody? Like, is that weird to ask?

I wouldn't feel weird about asking that. And then kind of slowly move into like, what's your type and who you're into. Yeah, like just go for it. Ash asked all of these and more. Okay. He's asking about celebrity crushes. That's a good one.

He thinks he might be getting somewhere because Jeremiah has just admitted to being more of a Legolas guy than an Aragorn guy, which I feel like is a clear sign. That means you're gay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But just as Ash feels like he's getting somewhere, Cody finds a Ouija board. Oh my God. Okay. Do you let somewhere, Cody finds a Ouija board. Oh, my God. Okay. Do you let these children play with the Ouija board? Hell, yeah.

I'm so different. Again, let Cody cook. Well, I was playing with a Ouija board when I was like 14. I don't know. I just don't fuck with ghosts on such a deep level that I'm just like, I will not be involved in the horror movie because you would not have even gotten me to the house in the woods. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, got it.

Yeah, we get that, yeah. Jeremiah just sort of rolls his eyes, because he's chill. He's like, yeah, sure, whatever. And Ash is ready to do whatever Jeremiah is doing, obviously. So they watch as at first the campers mostly use the Ouija board to spell out butts and fart. See, that's beautiful.

But eventually Cody's like, knock it off. We have to take this seriously. Cody asked Jeremiah to lower the lights. Oh my God. And Jeremiah's like, oh my God. Yeah, sure. And he turns down the lights. When he rejoins Ash, he stands close enough that their arms are brushing.

Oh my God. And he speaks low enough that Ash has to lean in even closer to hear him. Oh my God. And he speaks low enough that Ash has to lean and even closer to hear him. Oh my God. And Jeremiah's like, are you afraid of ghosts? And Ash was raised Catholic, so he's like a little bit. And then Jeremiah smiles and is like, don't worry, I'll protect you.

Oh my God. Okay, also shout out to Cody for like wingmanning this whole thing. Right? That's an ally. Ash almost passes away. He's like, there's gonna be a ghost on this property. It's me. I'm dead. Right now. That's so cute. He's saved from having to respond by Cody calling for silence in the room.

And then Cody says, if anyone is here, please tell us your name. It's quiet for a moment, and the little triangle thingy, which I've learned is called a planchette, it starts moving before traveling to the letter J. Okay. And then it drifts to the letter I before finally landing on M. Jim, okay.

And it's quiet for a second and then Cody whispers, Jim? There's a ghost here and his name is Jim. And then, as if confirming that, the little planchette moves to yes. Oh my God. There's silence for a moment and then one of the campers starts to cry. Oh, okay. And that's when Jeremiah's like, okay, I one of the campers starts to cry. Oh, okay. And that's when Jeremiah's like, okay, I think it's time to go to bed.

The crying camper is like, but what about the ghost? And Jeremiah's like, there is no ghost. And then he's like, ghosts only haunt places where they've died. And no one's died here, right? Huge news. Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times bestselling book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, Mostly True Notes on Gossip, and I am obsessed.

It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun and not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audio book, which Kelsey narrates. You can buy wherever you buy your books.

You can also go to kelsemckenniebook.com to see all retailers. Support for normal gossip comes from Airbnb. It's been a while since I've taken a proper break and gotten out of town, so lately I've been daydreaming about a trip to Quebec City. I mean, we've got cobblestone streets and cozy cafes and all that gorgeous French architecture. Yes, please. And for those like me who are planning or even daydreaming about a trip, I would recommend hosting on Airbnb.

While you're off exploring places like Old Quebec or eating your Wheaton poutine, your place back home could be earning you some extra travel money. Hosting is practical, flexible, and honestly kind of a no-brainer if you're going to be away. Got a trip coming up? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host.

Luckily this is not Ash and Jeremiah's immediate problem because they have the next day off. Okay. Okay, great. Every week, the staff gets a randomly assigned day off. And this is the first time since camp started four weeks ago that Ash and Jeremiah are assigned to the same day. So they squish six people into a sedan and they head off to go camping for a night.

They have cases of PBR. They have two handles of fireball. We got 2007. This is beautiful. Someone brings out a handful of very badly rolled joints. This is their day off without children. This is the only time they're allowed to drink, and these 20-somethings are making it count.

Yes. Oh, that's so beautiful. They're taking shots on the hour. Every hour. When's the last time you had Fireball? Probably years. I think that's one of those drinks you can get at the grocery store, right? Because it's barely alcohol.

It's definitely a lot of sugar. Yes, yeah, yeah. I have a secret fondness for Fireball because I love a sweet little drink. I support you. Shots should be more fun. And what's more fun than Fireball? Yeah, I do love a shooter, like when it's like, they put a little juice in it or something. That's fun.

Exactly. Exactly. So, by Ash's third shot of Fireball, he has finally worked up enough courage to join Jeremiah on his blanket. The conversation turns to that summer's staff D&D campaign. And this is Ash's first real campaign of this magnitude with some very skilled players.

So he's a little bit intimidated and he doesn't really feel like he's done that well so far. He's having a little trouble understanding his character sheet still. But the thing is, being kind of bad at something can work to your advantage when you're flirting. Hundred percent. And Jeremiah is the type to help.

Jeremiah is patiently explaining the difference between history and investigation. Okay, love. The sun is setting and they're sitting by the fire. Jeremiah pulls out a little red velvet bag from his book bag and inside is his favorite set of dice. They're gold-plated and they're like glinting in the light of the fire. Jeremiah hands Ash a 20-sided die and his hands are warm. And when Ash looks up,

Jeremiah is staring deeply into his eyes. So Ash squeezes Jeremiah's diaper luck, and Ash goes in for a kiss. And he's met halfway by Jeremiah, who's also going in for a kiss. Oh, yay! Oh my God, he's also going in for a kiss. Aw, yay! Yay! Oh my god, that's so sweet.

Ash is like floating on a cloud. Yeah. Later that night, Jeremiah picks up his sleeping bag and deliberately brings it over next to Ash's and like squashes himself down next to him so they're next to each other while they go to sleep. They fall asleep holding hands. Oh my god, Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's beautiful.

The next morning, Ash and Jeremiah are trying to be as discreet as possible. They're both in their early 20s, though, so I really doubt it's discreet at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no one says anything. And Ash is honestly pretty sure he saw another set of counselors making a kiss before they head back to camp. Yeah, they're fine. Ash was like a secret's pretty safe. Do you agree with him? If I were there, I would've clocked it, but that's because I'm nosy.

So it depends on the drunkenness and the snoopiness of the other counselors, I guess. The first moment Ash starts to get just like a little bit worried is when they get back to the campgrounds. And it's because the vibes are decidedly off. Uh-oh. It's kind of eerily quiet for a camp full of children, even nerdy children. The kids they do see are acting pretty fucking weird, which is saying a lot for this kid. These are already weird children acting wicked weird.

Okay. Some of them are scurrying between buildings like they're being hunted. Oh my God. Okay. Are they just larping? Well, a lot of them seem to be staring at Ash and Jeremiah. Okay.

And just then, Prince Wharton comes out of the administration building and he makes a beeline for Ash and Jeremiah. Uh-oh. How would you be feeling? That's homophobia. So I would be feeling righteous anger and concern. Prince Wharton is like,

did you two dummies tell the kids that someone died here? Oh, uh-oh. Apparently in the 24 hours they have been gone, rumors of Jim the Ghost had spread across the camp like wildfire. Jim the Ghost, that's so good. Uh. None of this had been helped by Cody, who had snuck back into the computer lab

after the Ouija board session and come out with evidence of a child who had snuck back into the computer lab after the Ouija board session and come out with evidence of a child named James Hawkins disappearing from the campgrounds. Oh my God, Cody. At first Ash is like, oh thank God that's it, I thought I was about to be fired. For canoodling.

And then the Prince Warden, Ash, is like, wouldn't your family know if someone had gone missing from the campgrounds? Oh. And then Ash is like, wait, did someone go missing from the campgrounds? And Prince Warden is like, I don't know. The kid was at the camp that existed before my parents

bought this place, so they don't know anything about it. Oh my God. And then he's like, you two made this problem. You have to fix it. None of the kids slept last night. And if you want to call their parents, pick them up early. Oh, and it doesn't exactly look like the prince slept either. But Ash is like, this is not the time for me to mention that. Oh my god. How would you handle the situation? Well, that's so cute. Okay. I think there's a really cute way to do it, which like you bring everyone to like a campfire

or something and you're like, we're gonna say this special song and that drives the ghosts away or something. And then you're like, you have a stern chat with Cody being like, I know you don't believe in this shit, but you're gonna go along with it because all of your campers are really scared and it's kind of your fault.

You treat Cody like the adult that he is and you get him on your side. Like treat Cody like the adult that he is, and you get him on your side. Like the taxpaying adult that he is. The taxpaying job-having, wrinkle-having kid that this Cody is, yeah. This is a good plan. Jeremiah goes to track down Cody so he can see this ghost evidence before he really starts to figure anything out. And Ash heads to the prop house to help put together something that might tire the kids out so they'll sleep that night.

That's smart. He manages to put together an impromptu obstacle course. So by the time Jeremiah comes and finds him, Ash is like sweaty and itchy from being covered in sawdust and grass. He forgets all of that though, as soon as Jeremiah says hi to him. Oh. It's only been like four hours since they had last seen each other. But Ash says it felt like an eternity.

Oh, Ash. Ash is so gentle. That's awesome. Jeremiah's like, okay, we have a problem. Uh-oh. He's like, low key, the evidence Cody has is kind of convincing. Of course it is. This man did his job. Jeremy is like, Cody showed me a website he found about the old camp that mentions this

kid, James Hawkins, going missing in 1934. Also James Hawkins is a perfect like missing kid name in the 1930s. Like, oh, James Hawkins down by the river. Exactly. Jimmy Hawkins. Yeah, exactly. Ash is like, I'm sorry. What?

And there's just like a little bit of fear in his voice. Jeremiah's like, wait, do you actually believe in ghosts? And Ash is like, I don't know. Okay. I haven't seen enough evidence either when. Jeremiah kind of smirks and he's like, remember, I told you I protect you. Oh my God.

And then he holds hands with Ash. Ash is ready to vomit at how cute this is. Oh my God, okay. When they're interrupted by a... behind them. Uh-oh. We're almost at the end of the story. How are you feeling? I just want things to work out and I fear it will not for anyone.

Mainly Cody. Ash and Jeremiah turn to see none other than Cody standing there with a shit-eating grin on his face. Oh my god, he has blackmail evidence. Ash feels like he's been electrocuted and not in like a cute romantic way. His heart is pounding, he doesn't even know what to say, and Cody is the first one to speak. Cody's like, don't worry. And then Cody winks. And then he's like, I won't tell anyone. And then Ash told us Cody swans out of the room. He's like, bitch, caught your ass. Do you believe this child? Oh, oh, oh, God. I mean, no, I don't believe him as much as I want to root for him.

I don't believe little Cody. He's still 12, even though he's a grown man. Jeremiah is immediately like, don't worry, it's going to be okay. But he says it in that tone where you're clearly trying to convince yourself. Ash is like, mm-hmm. And then he's like, let's not get caught again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So Ash spends the next few hours before dinner in a state of just like rising panic. Yep. The vibes have only gotten worse. Uh-oh. The kids are freaking out about Jim the Ghost. The counselors are freaking out because the kids are freaking out. And Prince Fjordan has spent the afternoon on the phone with Exorcist, which has done absolutely nothing to calm anyone down. That's so funny that he was like, we need to hire a professional.

He's like Ghostbusters. Yeah, yeah. He literally is like, oh, like, what's the number again? Ash is down to eat in the mess hall just as Prince Warden enters and he motions for everyone to quiet down. And then Prince Warden is like, I've received a lot of concerned calls from parents. They're asking me to bring in a trauma therapist. Oh my god.

Prince Warden is like, if nights like last night continued where half the camp doesn't sleep, computer time will be revoked for everyone. Uh-oh. The entire mess hall is just full of horrified gas. Ha ha ha. And then finally, the prince is like, if anyone here has any information about anything, please share immediately.

Oh no, Cody, don't do it. It's quiet for a second. And then Cody stands and is like, I have something to share. Oh, my God. This little shit. I am no longer on Team Cody. What do you think Cody has to share? Well, there's two pieces of things he could say to make it way worse than it already is. One is that two of the counselors want to fuck. And the other one is that he knows there's a dead ghost. There's a child dead ghost.

Yeah, Ash immediately starts to panic. He's looking around for Jeremiah, whose eyes are like as big as saucers. Cody's like, I know something no one else here knows. And then Cody looks at Jeremiah. Oh, no. Ash's heart is in his ass. And then Cody's like, I planted the Ouija board

and I lied to Jeremiah. The website I showed him is fake. I made it. There's no ghosts. Everyone can stop freaking out. Oh, Cody. What an angel. And OK, did he actually make it up? Or did he just say that so that people would calm down? Well, apparently Cody had decided to take his Dungeon

Master game to a whole new level. Oh my god, he's doing LARPing! He had been planting clues since the previous summer, including the Ouija board. He had spent his free time during the school year making graphic design his passion and made the very convincing website that mentioned James Hawkins. Oh my god. You can maybe see why Cody's parents had wanted him to get outside for the summer. No, keep him in there. He should do this for a living. Send him to all the camps and have

him do this. And then the rest of the time, he's at work. He's at work on his computer. And then the rest of the time, he's at work. He's at work on his computer. You can also maybe see why Camp Gondor received a very large donation from Cody's parents a few weeks after what everyone came to refer to as the Cody Incident. Oh my God, that's so good. After they'd already given a generous donation

to let him in the first time, oh, that's so good. Oh my God. I think Cody might be like our age. I actually don't know how old you are, but like if he was 12 in 2007, like he's only like what like a year, couple of years younger than us. I know. What is he doing right now? I really need to know what he's doing. I mean, my fear is that he's working at like Doge or something, but I'm not going to put

that on him. He's not giving Republican energy, I will say. No, you're right. Because he didn't rat out the days. You're right. So, we can hope. Well, that's the end of our story. Do you think Cody did anything wrong?

No, Cody is perfect. And I want to adopt him as my friend. Do you think Cody did anything wrong? You know. That's what the camp is for. It's at LARP camp. No, you're right. I think that the rules should have been more explicit about how far to take LARPing.

Well, he was yes-ending. He was using the principles of improv to A, to see it. There was nothing in the contract that said he couldn't do this. Exactly. How would he have known? How would he have known? Talk about an active imagination. This is genius. And we should be encouraging more of this.

And follow through. God, really, really impressive stuff. And again, I want to meet his parents. I want to meet him now. We like, I need you to ask this person, like, where's Cody? Like, where is he? I'll do that. But first, I have some postscripts for you. Do you want to read them?

Oh my God, I would love to. So Cody was true to his word and never said anything about the handholding he witnessed. Ash and Jeremiah had a long distance relationship for a year while Ash finished his senior year of college and eventually got married in a gorgeous themed wedding. What? They're married? Oh my God, this is so cute. They're about to celebrate their 18th anniversary.

Oh my God. How old are they now? Like in their 40s probably? Like, wow. I can't do math.s probably? Yes, I can't do math. I can't do math on the spot. That sounds right though. If they were 20-ish in 2007. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, that is so sweet. Cody after signing a contract promising to never run another Stanford prison experiment on his fellow campers,

came back summer after summer and eventually became a counselor. Oh my god! He's perfect. And Camp Gondor got an infusion of new life and money after the Game of Thrones boon and the late aughts. The water and the showers is hot now. Oh my god. I'm so happy. That's the end of our story, Rebecca. Oh my god, that was such a good story. You're such a good storyteller. Oh, thank you so much.

I like that that was like a fun one. Yeah, I asked for Gossip That Was Secretly a romance novel, and our listeners definitely delivered on this one. That's so sweet. Like, no, like, it felt so cinematic. And I have, like, characters in my mind for Ash. Who has blue hair? I'm sorry. Like, this is... Oh, yes.

I'm sorry. There's a video game that I play where there's an Ash with blue hair, and that's why. And Cody is, like, your little sniveling prince who's secretly got a heart of gold. Exactly. This is so good. We love Exactly. This is so good. We love Cody.

This is so good. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defactor.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679Gossip. If you love this podcast and wanna support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok

at normalgossip. You can follow me on all social media at HeyDenae, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley-Ricks and J. Tolviera. The co-creators and Dowager Queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Sujong-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors' Projects editor.

Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors' business guys. Alex Sujong-Loughlin is Defectors' supervising producer. Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief. Dan McClade runs our merch store, which you can find in NormalGossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Katherine Xu, Brandi Jensen, Louise Paiz-Prumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for your help on this season, thanks to the rest of the Defector staff.

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