Normal Gossip - Legally Binding Meddling with Jasper Wang

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Defector's own Jasper Wang joins us to explore what happens when the people selling you their house have a few extra conditions. Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Support Radiotopia's fall fundraiser here. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Hey, it's Alex Sujong Loughlin and I am here with the Rachel Hampton of Normal Gossip. Hello. Hello, Alice. And I'm also here with Patrick Redford of Only If You Get Caught. Hi, Patty. Howdy? How are we doing? So we're all here together because the annual Radiotopia fundraiser is upon us and we are still trying to reach 1,500 donors by the end of the year. So Radiotopia is the network that sells our ads, that does our marketing. Rachel, what does it mean to you to be a part of an independent network? I mean, I think it means mostly and most importantly to me a lot of editorial freedom. I love that I'm not beholden to anyone when we're scheduling how many seasons we do every year or how many episodes we want to make. We get to make the show that is the most sustainable for us and that allows us to make the best version of the show possible. Huge. I totally agree. I think that something that I have really appreciated about Radiotopia is that they give us total control over what advertisers we say yes and no to. So like in the past, we've had advertisers that we've worked with who then maybe we hear from our audience that, you know, they're not so into them. And we can go back to Radiotopia and say, hey, we don't want to do that anymore. And I think not a lot of podcasts have that kind of autonomy over who. is advertising for them, which is really cool. Definitely. And it means that the things that we do advertise, we actually tend to enjoy. Shocker. Patrick, tell me what does being independent mean to

you? Well, this is maybe a sort of oblique answer, but like in sports media specifically over the past few years, everyone is like underwritten by a gambling company. And you can just see when there's these big stories, you know, cheating adjacent about gambling in sports that like so much of media is like compromised. And it's such a breath of fresh air to like not have to deal with that to just know that like whatever we put out there is like our own thoughts. There's no like intervening layer of owners or advertisers. And hopefully that comes through to the viewer. Like hopefully you see that like, you know, there's a certain level of honesty that we can bring to this. So if you love this show and you want shows like ours to exist and thrive, help our podcast

neighbors at Radiotopia by donating at Radiotopia.fm slash donate. Thank you so much. free audio post-production by our phonic.com Hello and welcome to normal gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world.

I'm going to remind y'all that the normal gossip team has got a little break coming up. We will not be publishing. during the weeks of Christmas and New Year, but have no fear. We will be back in your fees with fresh gossip within the first full week of 2026. So, our last episode for this year,

not this season, but this year is on December 17th. And then we come back on January 7th. All right, that is all the housekeeping for today. Now time for the gossip. For those of you who don't skip this part, thank you so much. Shout out to y'all. But you've definitely heard,

or Normal Gossip's co-founders, Kelsey McKinney and Alex Sujong Loughlin, talk about the company that we all co-owned, Defector. There are so many reasons why normal gossip would not be possible without Defector, but I want to talk about something specific that I haven't really spoken about publicly, which is how scared I was to take over this show as a black woman. We have been talking for basically a whole year at this point about our peaceful transition of power from Kelsey's hands into mine. And yes, we will continue to use that phrase because if you have spent any time in the audio world or, like, the real world in general, you're aware that transitions of power aren't always peaceful. Those transitions tend to be even dicier when you introduce a black woman into the midst. Hello, hi, it's me. Like most podcasts, we have some insight into our audience demographic data, which means that I was pretty aware when I took over that the majority of normal gossips audience is white. And I'm going to be so honest here and say that as a black woman, that's scared the living shit out of me.

Most of my black listeners out there will have heard the phrase twice as hard for half as much, which refers to the fact that as black people in America, we have to work twice as hard. What that phrase doesn't quite capture is that even when you do work twice as hard, even when your work is just as good as your white peers, half the white people who interact with it are going to find a problem with it because you as a black person dare. to do it. I'm not even going to talk about the psychic damage of that. That's for my therapist. Instead, I want to talk about the fact that most media companies, especially in an anti-Dei era, in the middle of an anti-woke backlash, have zero clue how to tune out the racist noise, and instead make it the problem of the black person that they hired. When I say that Defector is one of, if not the only media company that I would be willing to put myself into this position for I mean it. And not a small part of that comes down to today's guest, Defector's VP of Revenue

and Operations, Jasper Wang. Around DeFector, we just called Jasper our business guy, but even before I joined DeFector, I knew he was so much more than that. In a lot of ways, Jasper is the glue that holds our small little company together, and that is because at the end of the day, he understands that the people make the company, and that for those people to do their jobs, they need to feel supported. It is pretty rare as a black woman to encounter someone, let alone a business guy who doesn't question my instincts. And from the moment I joined DeFector, I knew Jasper was in my corner. I think the whole normal gossip team would agree that he has been a huge, silent partner in the transition that we've undertaken this year, which is why I am so, so, so honored to be

able to be here for his normal gossip debut. Jasper, hello, thank you so much for joining me. Hello, thank you so much for having me. This is like the best day of my life. I'm so excited that you're here. I think this might be one of the most exciting moments for not just us, but our entire company. Like, everyone I've told that you're going to be on the show is like, I can't fucking wait. Everyone knows I'm a yapper at this point. After five years of working together, they know I can yap.

I can yap with the best of them. You are a champion yapper. Have you always been this way? Is this a skill that you developed? What's your relationship with gossip? I have always loved gossip. Like, I would say my mother was actively anti-gossip because she staunchly avoided gossiping with other parents about children, which I respect, but I would say as I've gotten older and my

friends' kids start going to school, I do not follow her ethos. I am interested in the children's gossip. I have always loved gossip. At every stage of my life, I have had many platonic female friends. And I don't think there's a causal relationship there, but there is a. and interplay there, which is connected to the reality that gossip is generally not coded for straight men and boys. Yeah, 100%.

You have had a couple of straight men on this show. I must be the first one to just say, like, I love gossip. No, that is true. So many of them are so scared of gossip. They're like, I'm scared of it, but also I want it. And it's like, baby, there's no reason to be scared. Yeah, it's just like a social norming thing. And, like, I can remember, I was thinking about this question.

And I was like, you know, at various points in my life, I can remember hanging out with the fellas, starting to share some gossip, and then somebody being like, bro, why are you telling us this? And I was just like, all right, well, you know, let me text him a girl these, like, my real friends who are going to want to hear about this. I'm trying to share with you an experience. What do you mean? Yeah, this is the proto male loneliness of that book, man. It's just like, what, you want to talk about, what, stocks? You want to talk about football? Like, we're watching football.

We don't have to talk about more football. Jasper, I already thought that you were so smart. But now I know that I was right. That you're so smart. I will tell you that I also can remember various moments where I have been told to shut up about the gossip. And then later on, one of the boys will sidle up to me and be like, but I want to know the rest of the story.

Like, what, how did that end? There's the instinct there. It was just like not allowed. Yeah, men are so scared of gossip. They're like talking about another person is, against the law. And it's like, okay, if you're not talking about other people, then what are you talking about?

The weather? The weather also involves people. What are you even doing here? What's the point of being alive not to talk about other people? I could talk about this forever. But a little birdie told me that you have some gossip for me, and you know me. You know what I like.

So I have a feeling that you brought me something specific for me, and I'm real excited about it. Let me tell you this. I think this story, it's going to be the first. normal gossip thing to end up on R-slash finance. A subreddit I never visit, but now will. I mean, don't go to any subreddit. It's none of our business.

Okay, so before DeFactor, you know, I was a management consultant for the better part of a decade. And I have had lots of friends who were consultants at various firms. Now, in the early 2010s, I had a friend from college. We will call her Mora. Mora was a junior analyst at another consulting firm, and she got assigned to a project working for a hedge fund. So if I told another business person, like in a vacuum, a hedge fund has hired a consulting firm, they would be like, sure, that makes sense.

Okay. However, Mora got assigned to a special internal project. The hedge fund was headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut, and they were about to open a second office in New York. But a lot of the senior people at the firm, they lived in Stanford for many years, and they were concerned, they were disgruntled about sometimes having to do the more. and commute into New York. How long is that commute? It is not that long, all told. But to smooth it over with the senior people, the hedge fund decides they're going to hire a consulting firm to figure

out the fastest way to commute to New York. Do you want to guess the various transportation options that were in consideration? I'm sure public transportation was not one of them, even though I'm sure that that is an option available. Metro North is an option. Okay. Those little coach buses. I've seen companies bust their people back and forth. So I'm assuming that's also an option. Yeah. I mean, in this case, it was like private black car for each person. But yes, just like some sort of a company subsidized transport. And then the last two options or four options, so Metro North, black car. And then three and four were speedboat and helicopter. Speedboat, helicopter. I swear to God, they are people with too much money. The firm makes building.

of dollars. They make millions, tens of million dollars a year. They want to really know comprehensively what is the right answer. So they will go pay a consulting firm hundreds of thousand dollars to go figure this out for them. For several weeks, Mora would get up early. She would get her ass out to Stanford by 7 a.m. And then she would take the various transportation options back to New York. And then at like 6 p.m., she would then take those transportation options out to Connecticut. And then she would timed the trips, and she would, like, check the variants and see what potential roadblocks would happen and what it cost. After several weeks, do you want to guess what her recommendation was?

Is it Metro North? It is take the fucking Metro North, like everybody else. So, wait, you're telling me, your friend was taking helicopters, like, on a consistent, like, multiple helicopters a day, because you said commute there, commute back. So she would take two helicopters in one day for a week? So for that period of a couple weeks, every day she would just take something different. And she would just like rotate through and time it and price it. And so, yeah, like she rode on the helicopter, she rode on the boats.

At the end, the Metro North is just consistent. The express train from Stanford to Grand Central is like 50 minutes. And it is very predictable. It does not have delays that often. It's pretty steady so you can work on the way down. And then like you're in Midtown. You can go anywhere you want. Yeah.

And you're at Grand Central. Station, which is a delight. Exactly. It's beautiful. And it is, it's so much better than Penn Station. Wow. How much would something like this cost? Like, how much does it cost to hire someone to price this out? Something in the six figures to get a whole consulting team to work on this for a couple of weeks.

No surprise, Mara quit being a consultant pretty soon after that. Like, she is a midwife now. I love that for her. I love that path for her. People have, they're crazy jobs out there. Sometimes I'm just reminded of how many crazy jobs there are. Well, now I have some gossip for you. Are you ready?

I'm so ready. I'm so excited. I'm so scared. Let's go. When winter really sets in here at home, I start dreaming of a warm winter getaway. And this season, I'm looking at visiting Riviera, Maya, and Mexico. There's truly nothing like stepping off a plane from negative 10 degrees Celsius, weather, and feeling that instant hit of tropical air. So this winter, I plan to find a beautiful home on

Airbnb right near the beach in Tulum. And here are some of my dream accommodations. Maybe a plunge pool, some bright open windows, maybe a little hammock to lounge in. I can look for my ideal spot by using the guest favorites feature, which will show me the most love homes on Airbnb. And my ideal day on this winter getaway starts kind of slow with a morning walk down to the water, with a coffee, and in the afternoon, it's time to explore some nottes and grab some tacos for lunch. At night, we would head home and relax and cook simple dinners, maybe have a little drink out on the patio. And for me, staying in a home on Airbnb instead of a hotel makes a trip just feel slower and more personal, like we're actually living there for a little while.

It's exactly the kind of break we need from winter. It's warm, it's restorative, and a reminder that sometimes the best way to enjoy the cold is to get far, far away from it. Today's story is about tulips. Before we get into it, what are your feelings about tulips? What do you know about them? They caused a big stock market crash. What? The Dutch tulip stop market crash.

This is not anything that I thought you would say. That is incredible. Otherwise, my feelings about tulips are, it's one of, you know, like three or four flowers I can name off the top of my head. So, you know, a top five flower for me, definitely. Wow, beautiful. Our friend of a friend did not know a whole lot about tulips when the story started. In fact, she didn't know a lot about gardening at all. Our friend of her friend today is named Aaron, and Aaron is a traveling.

nurse. So, as I'm sure you can imagine, Aaron has moved around a lot. And not just in adulthood, her dad was in the army, so she spent her entire childhood moving around. She has not lived in a house with a yard since she was 16. And at the time of our story, she's in her late 30s. So she has a whole lot of capital B, capital F, big feelings about owning a home that no one can ever make her move out of. That is the elder millennial problem, man. We're all sitting here. still asking us why we're renting. That's just how it goes. Yeah, and like an elder millennial, unfortunately for Aaron, she has not had the best of luck with the whole owning a home thing, not least because she's had to move three times in the last 18 months because of her job

from North Carolina to Maine to Minnesota. But it is in Minnesota that it seems like Aaron's dream of buying a home might finally come true. The hospital Aaron is working at is so understaff that her six-month contract is almost immediately converted to a full-time position. Her husband, Andy's new job, pays significantly more than his last one. And then there's the fact that Aaron and Andy are not trying to buy a home in the middle of the pandemic for the first time. Jasper, you're a businessman. Am I correct in remembering that the housing market sucked for buyers for a lot of 2020 and 2021? I mean, the housing market has sucked for a long time, prices just go up and up. But yes, 2020, 2020, 2021, 2020.

was crazy bananas, so good for Aaron and Andy, yeah. Aaron and Andy's two prior home buying attempts in North Carolina and Maine had been unsuccessful, but third time, she's the charm. And there must be something in that Minnesota soil, because after putting an offers for three different houses, their third offers accepted. All right. And this was the house that they actually really wanted anyway.

It's close enough to the hospital that Aaron can bike during the fall and spring and take the light rail during winter. She's not taking a speedboat to work. So, the house that Aaron and Andy get, it's a three-bed, two-bath. It's on the older side. It was built in the 1920s,

but both the kitchen and the bathrooms have been recently renovated. Most of the important appliances are new, including the water heater. The garage is even heated, which seems important from Minnesota during the winter. The neighborhood is super cute.

the streets, they're all tree line. It's kind of perfect. Is there anything like totally non-essential that you have to have in your home? Like one of the things that sold me on my apartment besides the fact that it is rent-stabilized is that it has a window in the bathroom. I hate being in a bathroom that has no window. I'm just like, I'm trapped. In our household, my wife ended up getting fixated on having at least a fake chimney. So we would have a fake fireplace. So we currently have an electric fireplace, which is amazing, actually. So I do love that. Wow. I love a fireplace. Well, for Aaron, this is the backyard, specifically the garden, because for the past two decades, the closest Aaron has ever come to having a garden

is having, like, planter pots on her little slab of concrete behind her townhouse. And when she was younger, Aaron had planted gardens and some of the houses she lived in as a kid, but they had always moved before she could harvest anything. So having a garden means a lot to Aaron. And her new backyard is not massive. A lot of it's taken up by the death. But the remaining yard is more than big enough for the garden of Aaron's dreams.

And before they even close on the house, Aaron is already planning out what sort of greens and veggies and fruit she's going to plant. And luckily, the closing process goes fairly smoothly until Aaron and Andy's real estate agent tell them that the previous homeowners are requiring a wet signature to close. I'm assuming you know what a wet signature is.

It's just not an e-signature. They're like, we have to meet up and actually, like, get a ballpoint pen and write it down. Correct. Minnesota state law actually allows you to close on a house using docusign. Like, they call it remote online notarization or Ron. But the previous homeowners are like, we want a wet signature. They want this done at the house with them present, along with Aaron, Andy, and both realtors, plus a notary. This is in 2023, so this is not necessarily a health risk, but what do you think of this request from the previous homeowners? It's very specific.

Like, everything has moved to e-signature. I can't remember the last time I needed to notarize something since 2020. And Ron is a perfectly, you know, Minnesota name for a system that works for everybody. So they should just do the Ron. They should. Yeah. Our friend, Aaron, is not a fan. She is like, why can we not just do this online?

She's tired, a living week-to-week in an Airbnb. She wants to buy furniture and little baskets to carry around the garden. Every day that passes is the day that Aaron is not puttering around with a pair of shears and a little trowel. And it's taking forever to find a time that works for all of them, which I'm sure you understand as someone who's tried to schedule a dinner for more than four adults. Um, impossible. So Aaron is immediately anti the previous homeowners who are called the Millers. Her husband, Andy, is also not really thrilled about the whole wet signature thing, but he doesn't have a lot of feelings about buying a house because his parents didn't convert his childhood

bedroom to an office until the day he got married. Uh, so he's like, I've always had a home. Must be nice. Yeah. He's like, the Millers probably have their own big feelings about selling this. house. And it's only an extra week in the Airbnb. And we can use as a shopper furniture, right? No. Everybody is paying way more money. The holding cost of holding onto a house for longer than you need. The closing costs get dragged on. The Airbnb, honestly, if they were going to wait

for this, I'd be like, you have to split the cost of my Airbnb for the next week that I have to stay in. Whoa. Everything is up for negotiation. All right. Well, Aaron does not think of this. She's like, fine. I guess we'll buy furniture. Uh, she's not. Looking forward to meeting the Millers in person, though, not least because the only time that worked for everyone was a Saturday afternoon, like a perfect sunny Saturday afternoon that Aaron could have been spending in her garden. But whatever, it's fine. What kind of vibe would you expect the Millers to have? Honestly, a sort of a, we saw you from across the bar and we like the way you look vibe. Like, what the hell do we have to meet in person for? Like, truly, why do you have to see me physically? I don't know. Maybe they're very physically attached to this house and want to say good. goodbye to it, and, you know, give you a real talking to about how you have to take good care of it. So, Aaron, who, if you remember as an army brat, immediately clocks Mr. Miller as ex-military. He has a crew cut that is so precise.

It looks like he goes to the barber with a ruler. He's kind of giving the general from Avatar, the movie with the blue people. Like, despite the fact that he is, like, at least in his 60s, he is absolutely jacked. And he's wearing khakis on a Saturday, and his shirt is tucked in. I'm imagining Sean Penn in one battle after another. I think that's a perfect reference. His wife, Mrs. Miller, is total, complete opposite. Like, she's giving coastal grandmother a combination of Diane Keaton from Something's Got to Give.

And Oprah, in every video that she posts from her garden with her little basket. And it's Mrs. Miller who tells them that they're actually not, moving that far. They're just downsizing now that Mr. Miller is retired, and Mrs. Miller always wanted to live in the big city of downtown Minneapolis, so they bought a condo just 15 minutes away. Mr. Miller looks less than thrilled about this, and it's not until later that Aaron and Andy find out why. But before we get to that, I wanted to ask, are you someone who reads every word of a contract? Like, did you actually read your lease? I read every word of a contract, unless I have a lawyer reading it.

A thing that I am wet signeturing, absolutely. I'm going to read every single word. So here's where I admit that I am more like our friend of a friend. Okay. I fully got a cap before I checked my leaves to see if I could. Rachel. Where is you as supposed to notify my landlord? This is why Sierra said I could be judgmental of you during the episode too.

Okay, I see it now. This is, I understand what's happening. It turned out fine. I'm in my apartment and it's great. And your cat is there. Exactly. So it turned out totally fine. And this is how Aaron feels.

She's like, it's going to turn out totally fine. And she's been through the home buying process before. And the first few times she had, like, read every single, like, permit and agreement in the closing papers. And then she, like, wouldn't get the house. And all of her friends are like, it's so many papers. No one actually reads them. It's going to feel bad. but you just sign them all and you just don't worry about it.

Their realtor had assured them that the contract was standard and Andy had promised that he read the whole thing. So Aaron's like, I can just sign an initial. Her hand is cramping by the end. It's okay, though, because the millers hand over the keys and Aaron is officially a homeowner. It's not until Aaron and Andy get back to their Airbnb, though, that they see that they actually have an email.

from the Millers. The subject line is Tulip Care and Keeping, and included as an attachment, is a hand-drawn diagram of the backyard, including the deck, and the location of all the plants already in the garden most prominently marked on this map are the tulips. So two important things to know about tulips. They bloom from early spring to early summer, and their bulb plants like garlic, which means that you don't have to replant them. And also that if you're looking at a field of tulips in, like, December, it just looks like mulch, which is why Aaron had not noticed that half of the area that Aaron had planned to have for her garden is filled with tulips. Oh. The Millers are one of those couples that have, like, a joint email account,

so Aaron and Andy don't know who sent this email until they get to the bottom of it. I want to ask you, what Miller do you think sent this email? That is definitely Barbara Miller. You named her. Barbara Miller, yes. Barbara and Glenn. That's what I'm going to call them in my head. That's their names now.

Barbara and Glenn. To Aaron's shock and maybe yours, it is Mr. Miller. Oh, wow, Glenn. Emailing about the tulips. Glenn contains multitudes. Okay. Mr. Miller writes that the tulips growing in what is now Aaron's garden are not just your average grocery store tulips.

These are the pride. of the community garden. They are a crossbreed between two different varietals. It took eight years to perfect. These tulips have won multiple prizes at the Minnesota State Fair. And Mr. Miller writes, he would really appreciate if Aaron and Andy didn't undo any of this hard work. So he includes care instruction for the tulips,

most of which are just, like, basic gardening tips. Andy's like, wow, isn't this great? Your garden's already started. This is not Aaron's response. If I were looking on the bright side, I would understand what Andy was saying. Like, Aaron, you have not actually had a garden for many decades now. And so it is nice to have a head start a little bit. It actually, from that description, the fact that you don't have to replant them,

sounds like tulips sort of do have an advantage. On the other hand, it's a lot of pressure. And surely you are about to tell me about some sort of a contractual clause that is going to make it, like, light meddling to, like, actually serious legally binding meddling. I can't confirm or deny that. Aaron is like, how dare he? She's like, why was this not mentioned during the hour we just spent signing documents together? You know those pop culture scandals.

still can't stop thinking about, yeah, us too. So we made a podcast about all the ones we can't forget. I'm Sadaf and I'm Sarah. We're journalists and self-identified historians of celebrity gossip. On our podcast, The Reheat, we dived into the biggest celebrity scandals of the past and re-examine them with fresh eyes and a whole lot less shame. I never thought I would be a Samantha, but I really, really connect with her now. And I have learned to empathize with Marvel executives at this point, having done this much research.

I believe that... It's like pop culture therapy with your smartest, funniest friends. What do you wear for that important, historic moment? What do you wear for that moment? I do love that. See, now what you're doing is dangerous. You're making me like Kate Middleton

and I never thought that I would get there. I do like the two of you could hang out and have fun. We probably could have a very good time. A very good time. Listen to the reheat wherever you get your podcasts. By the time Aaron and Andy move into their new house, it is already November. So they're kind of like, there's nothing to be done. We're not going to go digging around right now anyway.

And there's so much to be done inside the house. That whole winter is Aaron and Andy's HGTV era. They've got Pinterest boards. They're putting up wallpaper. They're painting. They're learning how to use different drill bits. They're rediscovering how expensive rugs are. We love it.

Except for the fact that throughout that first first, winter in their new house, Mr. Miller keeps emailing them about the tulips. In December, he's like, the weatherman said there's a hard frost coming this weekend. Don't forget to cover the garden with mulch. That's the whole time of Minneapolis. Minneapolis, in December, in January and February, it's a hard frost that whole time. Exactly. And Aaron had also already done this.

She's preparing her garden. She didn't need his help. She's a nurse. She can follow directions. She understands keeping things alive. And then Mr. Miller in March is like, have you started adding compost to the flower beds? A few weeks after that, he's like, what sort of rabbit mitigation system do you have in place? Because apparently rabbits love tulip bulbs.

How would you handle this guy? I would thank him in very increasingly curt ways of like, thanks, I was on it. I got it. I understand your concern and I do not need your hovering over my shoulder. Yeah, Aaron is at the point where she's like, what if I just went outside and dug up every single one of those tulip bulbs in the backyard? She's like, I think we should just tell this guy to fuck off. But Andy is not worried at all. He's like, I can manage this guy.

He's probably just lonely. And Andy doesn't want to make things awkward because one thing I forgot to mention is that even though the Millers move downtown, they still have a lot of friends in the neighborhood. so it's not uncommon to see them in a coffee shop or at the community garden. And Aaron's husband, Andy, is a conflict avoidant. So Andy's like, I got this. Don't worry. You send Mr. Miller's email straight to spam, and I'll handle him. You don't even have to think about it.

Sweet, conflict-diverse, Andy, fitting right in in Minneapolis, from what I understand. Midwestern nice. Oh, we might run into them at a coffee shop one time. in the next three months, and therefore I have to keep up appearances with this person. Okay, great. Do you believe Andy when he says that he's got a handle? No, not at all. You say that so sadly.

Well, again, we foreshadowed that Andy was the one who was supposed to read the contract, and so I already don't believe in him when he says he's going to stay on top of the details. So, yeah, I think this is going to go sideways because Andy can't handle this situation. Aaron's working 12-hour shifts at the hospital at this point, so she's like, you know what? Fine. You handle it. But then she's like, if that man tries to come over to see the tulips or whatever the fuck, it's going to be a problem. Aaron's like, I grew up around military guys.

You give them an inch and they take a mile. If you let him in, we will never get rid of him. Also the history of American imperialism. Think about it. Oh, yes, military men. That is a, it's not a metaphor for anything. That's just like, you know, how the U.S. Army wants you to behave only interpersonally. And he's like, totally fair.

I don't want our home to be invaded either. But he's like, but think about all the tulips we're going to have. It'll be like we went to Amsterdam for our honeymoon. And the thing is, unfortunately for Aaron, Andy is right. We hate to see when a man is right. Aaron sends Mr. Miller's emails to spam, and he entirely disappears from her life. And before Aaron even has a chance to plan her own garden, the tulips start blooming in the backyard. And they're, like, absolutely stunning.

Like, Aaron cannot help smiling whenever she sees them. Do you have any concerns? as of this moment, things are going pretty well. Things sound great. We can get through a whole normal gossip episode where things just keep going swimmingly. That's what I believe is going to happen in this episode. In late May, when the tulips glory is starting to fade,

Aaron's at work, she's on her lunch break, she's checking her personal email, when she sees an email that has been forwarded to her by Andy. And all she needs to read is the word tulips in the subject line and Miller in the email address before she's calling Andy. She's like, what is this? I thought you were handling this.

And Nandy's like, I know. I know. But you seem like you really didn't want him to come over. And, well, did you read the email? And Aaron's like, I did not read the email because you promised me I wouldn't have to deal with this man anymore. Nandy's like, can you please just read the email? So Aaron reads the email and honestly it's probably the best for everyone that she is at work when this is happening. Because the email is actually several emails.

dating back to a week and a half ago when Mr. Miller had asked when he could come over to harvest the tulip bulbs as promised. Aaron's like, promise. What promise? Nandy's like, just keep reading.

That's not a promise. That's a threat. There was a threat at some point in the past. So Aaron keeps reading. Andy had very politely responded, like, I'm not sure a promise you're talking about, but unfortunately, we are doing some landscaping in the garden, so it is not fit for company.

But I am more than happy to harvest some tulip bulbs for you and drop them off. It would be no trouble. Does this seem like a fair compromise to you? That does seem like a fair compromise. That is a good job by Andy, maintaining boundaries and trying to hold the line here. I am wondering, I don't really know how gardening works. So is this sort of like, if he harvests the tulips, he is now out of your hair forever? Like, his tulip operation now goes somewhere else?

Or is this, like, actually setting a precedent that every spring I'm going to show up and harvest some tulips? Like, I would do some Googling around about just, like, what goes into harvesting tulip bulbs. Erin is also kind of in the same place. She's, like, begrudgingly, like, that was a good solution. But she's like, you should have told them to fuck off. I told you about these military guys. Nandy's like, can you please just finish reading the email? So finally, Aaron gets to the final email in the chain, which is from Mr. Miller, and which

reads, while I appreciate your generous offer, it is essential that my tulips are harvested with the correct technique to ensure viability. I will be there on Saturday, May 13th at 0,900 to harvest my 130 bulbs of tulips. 130 bulbs. Oh, shit. Okay. Mr. Miller then continues. I sincerely hope you two are willing to honor the agreement you signed, which, if you recall, makes reference to the Minnesota Doctrine of Imblements that ensures us free access to the premises for the express purpose of harvesting our property. View Link for Clarity. Thank you for understanding and your cooperation.

See you Saturday. Andy, Andy, Andy. Here's the thing. There is also a way to go about skimming contracts, right? Like, there are clauses where it's like, we promise to hold harmless, and, you know, If we go into litigation, it's in New York courts like, yeah, sure, skim those things. If you see something that is like, link here, like weird Minnesota statute that you don't otherwise know, like, you have to actually read those things, okay?

Come on, Andy. Have you ever heard the phrase doctrine of imblements before? I'm going to be honest, I'm not even sure what that word, the word that you're saying sounds like it is a noun, but I do not know to what that is referring. Also, Aaron, in the same position. She's like. What the fuck is this? And she might have heard of it

if she had read the contract, but listen, Glasshouse is over here. I can't really be talking. So Aaron's like, what the fuck is the doctrine of implements? And Andy's like, based on the legal document he attached, it's something about crops?

So Aaron opened the legal document that Mr. Miller had attached to his email. She reads the phrase, farm tenants' right to enablements, and then immediately closes the document. Before going to Google, where she finds a Wikipedia page that states that the doctrine of imblements

operates to guarantee the farmer's right to reap and carry away the fruits of his labor, even if he loses title to the land on which they are grown. All right. I know this is my coastal elite perspective, but this is some like daylight savings ass

what, why do we bend over backwards for the farm lobby bullshit? Okay. you've lost title indeed. Like, what do you mean? Like, that is how this country works, all right? You know, who owns that land? Sorry to be too capitalists about this.

But, like, those are... We do operate in a capitalist society, and those are what the laws are, I guess, unless we carve it out for the farmers. Which we do, very often. That's right. The government's going to buy some soybeans here also. It is rhyming with that big time.

So, Aaron reads that the doctrine of implements usually pertains to tenant farmers who lose access to the land they were leasing before harvest. Okay. And Aaron's no lawyer, but she's like, we bought our house. I'm paying the mortgage every month. Wouldn't that make the property hours? What would you do at this point? First, let me just backtrack and say, I support the tenant's rights here.

I did not know what I was talking about. Now that you explain more to me, all right, I am on labor side. people should be able to harvest the fruits of their own labor. So let me just back up. Let me just say that. Hold on. I started saying some stuff about capitalism, and I just want to walk that back gently, okay?

That's real. That's real. I already told this whole story about finance and hedge funds. Like, I got to make sure people understand what side I'm on here, okay? No, it's true. Okay. My actual answer here is I would figure out how to get in touch with a lawyer, who actually knows Minnesota laws.

So, you know, it's not like call a friend of a friend who's in law school. Like, I think you sort of have to start paying up to figure out what this is. Yeah, Aaron and Andy are on the same page. And they're like, we've already paid somebody related to this. So they decide to email their realtor. So they forward all the emails that Mr. Miller has sent, along with Aaron's research on implement laws. And the realtor responds, like, this is bullshit.

There is nothing about this. in the contract. And even if there was, the doctrine of implements wouldn't apply here since your backyard is not a farm. Erin, she's victorious. She's like, I finally have the green light

to tell this man to fuck off, which I've been wanting to do since November. And it is almost mid-May at this point. She's got months of pent-up, garden-related rage, years, if you count her childhood trauma. So, Aaron sits down, little clickety-clack keyboard,

to write an email. She's like, we have reached out to our realtor for guidance because, quite frankly, we feel blindsided by this request. Our realtor confirmed to us that there is no mention of tulips in our contract. Furthermore, the doctrine you cite above does not apply to this situation. We are the legal owners of this property, including the tulips. And while we don't appreciate the way you've engaged with us, it's clear how much these tulips mean to you. So, as a courtesy, we'll be consulting with our realtor as to the best way forward. Perhaps you can pick up a few bulbs from her office. Good for Aaron Nandy.

Aaron sends his email and is like, you know what, actually, I'm a benevolent bitch. I could have gone harder. I got to say, that is a real professional email. I think that is appropriately aggressive. I think the trouble here is I appreciate the realtor not being mealy mouth, right? I could have imagined the realtor being like, this is not my business. Like, you go ask somebody else. On the other hand, realtors are not lawyers.

And so I don't know that I believe the realtor when she says this is bullshit. And respectfully, my mother, my mother is a realtor, so I'm not distant realtors writ large. I'm just saying her legal acumen is not why my mother is a good realtor, okay? It's more about like a friendly demeanor and like good customer service. Like that's not what this is. Keep that in mind for a little bit later. But before we get to that, do you think Mr. Miller will agree that Aaron is a benevolent bitch? Again, I have Sean Penn in my head, and so no, I think he is going to escalate in retaliation.

Yeah, Mr. Miller is like, the best way forward is for me to come get my 130 tulip bulbs on Saturday at 0900. And then he's like, do not harvest a single bulb without my supervision. It is a highly technical process. Andy is like hyperventilating at this point. He's like, what are we going to do if he actually comes here to do? Did you see how big that man is? Aaron's like, this is why you should have told him to fuck off in November like I told you, too. So what options do you think our friends have here?

Let's assume they don't want to involve the cops. Look, on one end, you could very well. Just let him show up and do the tulip stuff. Again, it's not like he is going to go rifling through your stuff in your basement. Like, he just wants to go around back and just get the stuff out. Yeah. But that is capitulating rather easily. No, it's true.

So, I don't know. You know, on the other end of the spectrum, just like digging it all up and dumping it out in front of the garden. So when he shows up, he just sees a bunch of dead tulip bulbs. I don't think that is out of the question either. You know, there's probably some middle ground here that is better than either of those options. But I would not blame them for going in either direction. Yeah. luckily for our friends, they don't have to make that choice

because a couple hours after Mr. Miller's last email, Aaron gets a call from her and Andy's realtor, who's like, you're not going to believe this. Apparently, the Miller's real estate agent had gotten in contact with her, and the Miller's real estate agent had been like, my client has just got in touch with me about some tulips. And then he's like, I had no idea what Mr. Miller was talking about. So I talked to my colleague.

And this is the moment that Aaron and Andy learned that halfway through their home selling process, the Millers had switched real estate agents, their first agent had gone on maternity leave. During the switch to the second one, the Miller's very specific request about harvesting the tulips in May had gotten lost. Oh, so it's not in the contract. It's not in the contract. All right, that's not their fucking problem then. Apparently because Andy kept replying so nicely to his emails, Mr. Miller had been operating under the the assumption that there was a mutual understanding about the tulips.

This is why he'd gotten so upset. He thought that Aaron and Andy had just decided to keep them for themselves. Aaron and Andy's real estate agent is like, Mr. Miller is very embarrassed, and he wishes to convey his deepest apologies. Okay, here's a thing. Glenn Miller, I've said it the whole story, is a stand-up guy. Okay? I have never played the tape back.

I have never said a negative thing. I've never implied anything. So true. Except that Glenn Miller, as a military man, man, very upstanding, all right? Highly ethical. The military, the American military that we famously love and adore you. That's right.

Yes. We are almost at the end of our story. Do you think there are any villains here? Honestly, everyone is behaving reasonably well with that misunderstanding. Even the realtors, I'm like, yeah, handing off stuff when people go out on leave, that's tough. Somebody should have caught it, but, you know, it happens. So I'm very pleased to hear that nobody is acting really out of pocket. pocket here. Yeah. This development softens Aaron's feelings towards Mr. Miller. She's like,

listen, I'm a nurse practitioner. I get it. You spend more than three years working on something and you just go a little bit crazy. So fine. So she and Andy, they email the Millers. They're like, we appreciate the o'hology. And then they extend what I think is a very kind offer, which is they offer to harvest half of the tulip bulbs and leave them out on Saturday morning at 0,900 hours. Okay. They're going to harvest 65 of the tulip bulbs and then... You did that math so fast. That's right, baby. I'm in charge of your company's finances. I got to divide one 30 by half. Okay, but the other 65 tulips are just going to be, they're keeping them? They're letting...

Yeah, because they're so pretty. Oh, yeah, right. That's right. Aaron came around on liking the tulips. Okay. That's actually, that's great. I love that. Yeah. The Millers accept and the handoff goes really smoothly. Like Mrs. Millers, comes by herself to pick up the tulips, and she only takes 30 of the bulbs, even though Aaron and Andy had dug up 65. Mrs. Miller even apologizes for all the trouble. She's like, I'm so sorry about my husband.

I thought getting him into the city would make him less obsessed with these tulips. But you should not have any more trouble with him. Barbara Miller, also, I've never said one negative word about Barb, okay? Nope. Barb Miller. Barb and Glenn. Barb and Glenn, they're my people. And now they've left you with 100 beautiful tulips.

That's great, yeah. Yeah, and Barb Miller leaves Aaron and Andy with her number, just in case any other trouble comes up. This does end up coming in handy almost immediately because a few hours after Mrs. Miller picks up the tulips, Mr. Miller sends an email. Like, this is less than a quarter of the bulbs. Where are the rest?

Aaron immediately on the phone with Barb. And then 10 minutes later, she and Andy receive another email from Mr. Miller, who says, I was informed by my wife that the correct amount of bulbs were obtained. Thank you for your attention to this matter. And that's the end of our story. All right. No villains. Everyone's behaving. No villains. See, you said halfway through that nothing, that it wouldn't end well.

It ended great and you know what I was maligning Andy That's another person who I will admit I did say some negative things about Andy But and you know what He did read the contract He did It's true

Did he remember whether or not This was referenced in the contract It's unclear if you read the contract That's a good point Because he did not immediately say I read the contract And it's not in there He was like oh shit I'm in trouble

I did skim some of it Exactly he didn't even control F emblem So Andy, who knows what's going on. Andy is a nice Midwestern man. He's doing his best to try to hold Aaron up. Like, okay. He is. Well, thank you, Jasper.

That was a delight. I'm so happy to have heard it. I'm so happy it worked out for everybody. I'm so thrilled to be here today. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at NormalGossip. or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip. If you love this podcast, want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend

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