Normal Gossip - New England Stolen Valor with Tobin Low

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Tobin Low is back for a story about a mysterious lobsterman and his cousin and how he brought a community together during season one of lockdown. Follow Tobin on Instagram @tobinlow!Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here!Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here!Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets!Please make your gift today and help us reach our goal of 2,024 donors so we can keep on making interesting and beautiful things for you. THANK YOU! https://on.prx.org/3QEIIJkYou can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Tiffany. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Hey there, it's Alex. You may have heard at the end of our episodes the phrase, normal gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia, but maybe you don't know what that means. The media industry is kind of garbage right now, and it is harder than ever for independent creatives to own their own work, get paid for their work, and to make a living off of their work. Radiotopia is trying to make that possible for more independent creators. They're really great partners for us and we have been so happy to work with them. Every year Radiotopia does a fundraising drive and right now we have a goal

of reaching 2,024 donors and maybe one of them is you. Your donations in the fall fundraiser go into marketing, ad sales, technology, and it also makes it possible to bring on new shows in the future. So maybe your next favorite podcast is just around the corner. If you are a normal gossip or defector subscriber, that is different. If you donate during the fall fundraiser, you'll get a link to a curated list of all Radiotopia producers' favorite things as a token of thanks. I included something in there. You will never guess what it is. If you're listening to this episode right now, you are already supporting the work of

Normal Gossip, Defector Media, and Radiotopia, but if you want to take that one step further, donate to the Radiotopia, but if you want to take that one step further, donate to the Radiotopia Fall Fundraiser. Visit radiotopia.fm slash donate to learn more and add your name to the list of awesome listeners who support independent podcasts. Thanks. Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am thrilled

to welcome back to the show Tobin Lowe. Tobin is an editor for This American Life who manages a team of producers pitching, reporting, and structuring stories. Before coming to This American Life, he also co-hosted Nancy, a show about the contemporary queer experience, and also served as a producer for Radiolab on the first season of More Perfect. His work has appeared on Marketplace, Studio 360, and the Codebreaker podcast Tobin. Welcome! Hey, I am so happy to be back. Truly thrilled.

Oh my God, we so happy to be back. Truly thrilled. Oh my God, we're thrilled to have you. If you listen to the podcast, you may remember Tobin from season two, episode five, Personality of a Tan Wall, or from our San Francisco live show. Tobin, has your relationship with Gossip changed at all since the last time you were on this podcast? Like that was more than two years ago now. I don't think so. If anything, because I now, as a lot of people do,

like truly work remotely and from home, if anything, I feel like starved for gossip a little bit because the just the office culture, the like being around, seeing people so regularly culture, like I feel like I'm missing out a little bit, let's say. No. But you know, let's say. No. But we're getting through it. If anyone wants to send me anonymous stuff, DMs are open.

Yeah, do you have any methods for obtaining gossip since you are stuck at home? I think there's a lot of non-sponsored Zooms. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, no, no, I don't know what you mean. In the way that like Zoom has taken over so much of people's professional lives of like, you're going into a Zoom for like a meeting. Like, yes, I think that there is now such a thing as like an off the books Zoom with people, you know, like whoever, just to be like, can we catch

up and can you tell me what's really happening? Okay. So you're talking about like an unsponsored Zoom being the equivalent of being like, can you meet me in the kitchen to talk about this in your office? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Wow. I love that. So you're proactively seeking the gossip that the office can no longer bring you. I think so. I think I'm thirsty and I'm finding those oases in the middle of the desert.

I started the metaphor before I knew where it was going. I think it worked great. Beautiful. I was told that you brought a gossip for me. Is that true? I did bring a gossip for you. Uh-uh. So I guess I'll start by saying, you must be familiar

with the greatest feeling in the world. Oh, no. Which is when you meet somebody, you catch a bad vibe and you don't like them, but you can't put your finger necessarily on a concrete thing. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And then a little bit later, you get confirmation that that person is bad. And you're like, I knew it.

Yes. This is, that really is like such a top fucking tier feeling, right? Like, truly, sometimes people are like, can I talk shit? And I'm like, yes. And then they're like, okay, here's the name. And I'm like, oh my God, thank God. Right? Like I have been starving for years for whatever this is. And like, I don't care if it's this person left to you on Reddit and DMs, I need evidence

for the feeling I've already decided is true. 100%. It is. It's like the rush of adrenaline is so good. Oh my God. yes. Incredible feeling. So my story is a little bit about that feeling. Oh my god. I love this for me. I wish we had like a catchy name for that, right? For being like proven. Oh, like a German word. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so this goes back to once upon a time when I was the co-host of a queer podcast.

And I guess I would say like one of the things I miss about being like an F-list queer celebrity-ish, like you know, just like a queer person of note, is that you would get so much gossip and tea over like notable queer people who was actually nice, who was actually not so nice. Yes, 100%. Access to that world was very interesting. So I will say, once upon a time, we had a guest on the show. And it was the thing that I was saying before, where we caught a vibe. And I would say the segment was fine enough. But we just walked away and we're like, that didn't

work. Like something was off. And I'll say right now, don't go try and find it. We actually ended up not running it. So you're not going to find it in our catalog anywhere. Good clarification. Yeah. But we part of the reason that we decided not to run it was just like, ugh, like this feeling about like the vibe of this was off. So cut to probably like at least a year later. Okay. And I am interviewing a small business, a queer-owned small business. And we're just talking about what it is to run this thing that they're doing. And they start talking about, well, one of the unfortunate things is that we're tiny, but sometimes these celebrities will reach out and they'll be like, can we get free

swag? And we have to be like, no, you know, we're a small business. Like this would mean nothing for you to just like support us. And then sometimes they come back with like, well, this would be great exposure for you. Like it's really a shame. Oh my god. Like that kind of energy. I just like, it is the 2020s now.

We are not working for exposure. Like that's not a thing. Yes. You just want free shit. Right, right. So they were like, that's not working for exposure. Like, that's not a thing. You just want free shit. Right, right. So they were like, that's icky. Yes, especially within your own community. Like, steal from Amazon. Who cares? Do not steal from the locally owned adorable queer business. I know. It was truly cuckoo bananas when they were saying this, like, that this happens to them. And again, like, a lot of time had passed, so I don't know why, but I just

had a gut feeling. And so I was like, if I say a name of someone who's done this to you, will you tell me? Oh my God. And so I said it and they cackled. They like lost. They thought I was a witch. Oh, this is like that. The feeling you must have had is like how I imagine it must feel to hit a home run, right? It's just like, oh, shit, right? Like you've done it. That's crazy. Yeah. But you were right.

I was right. That was we and we felt so vindicated after that. Like I went back to my team afterwards and I was like, good call everyone. We did the right thing. Yes. I think part of what makes that feeling so good is like, it is a reminder to trust yourself, right? Because you're like, I was right all along, right? Like this feeling that I trusted was right. Yes. And that is really a great feeling. Yeah. And there's nothing like a shared enemy. Yeah, yes.

I'm now like, I have so much shit to say, but we can't say any of that right now. Wow. Thank you for bringing me that gossip story. I loved it so much. I'm so happy to have brought it. Do you want to hear the story that I have for you? I would love nothing more. Today we're in the Northeast. Think like L.L. Bean and Lighthouses.

Long summer days, long winter nights. Beautiful. And we're in a town that's kind of dead in the winter, but in the summer is full and touristy. It has lots of great restaurants, shoppy shops, et cetera. Gotcha. Okay. This is where our friend of a friend, we're going to call him Brian, lives. And Brian cannot wait for summer. This dummy drank like one alagash white in college and was like, I have to move further north. This was my entire

personality. Yes. He's like the kind of person, you know, the people that like are not from the south, but then they go to an SEC school for college and then they're like college football is my personality. And it's like, sweetie, that's not a personality. That's a whole section of the country's culture. Yes.

Yes. I feel like the final evolution of this type is a person who moves to England for a couple months and comes back with an accent. Yes, the Madonna problem. Exactly. So this guy, Brian, he moves to the Northeast. He loves it. He loves living up there. And the thing he loves the most is lobster. Okay. The side thing is that I recently cannot like had a revelation of like, oh, lobsters are bugs. And now I can't think of anything besides that. And they really gross me out. They are bugs, kind of, like crabs. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, continue. Brian loves lobster. He's like from June to December when lobsters are in season, lobster is his whole personality. Like he's doing New England's stolen valor constantly. Okay. He loves lobster so much that he has like a lobster guy who gets him fresh lobsters. Oh my God.

And I'm sure he doesn't shut the fuck up about this guy either. Never, not once has he been quiet about this guy, right? And the guy knows like different kinds of lobster, he catches them fresh, right? Like he's obsessed with the guy. Do you have anything that you feel is passionately about and or any important guys in your life? If I do, I am sheepish about sharing it, not because I'd want to gatekeep, but because the energy of like, I know a guy, this is my guy, for whatever.

It's like, what are you trying to prove? Like, you're not better than me. You know what I mean? It's like, it's too much. It's too much. We all know a guy for something. Just like, it's fine. Yes.

It's like, calm down about it. I live in Philadelphia, which is like, I would say probably one of the top tier cities for being like, do you want my guy? Do you want my mechanic? Do you want my carpenter? Do you want my whatever? So I'm close to many guys now, I feel. Yeah.

Yeah. You know what though, now that you're saying that, that's fair. I think to have a guy for like repairs and whatever, like where it's really, you need a good person, I think that's totally fine to have a guy for like repairs and whatever like where it's really you need a good person, I think that's totally fine to have a guy and recommend them. It's the lobster that upsets you here. The lobster part I'm like, okay, calm it down. Let's take it down two notches. Yes. Another person who feels like calm it down, let's take it down two notches is

Brian's girlfriend. We're going to call her Christie. Oh, Christie, I already feel so bad for you. Sorry, continue. Christie is from the Northeast. So like part of her life is making fun of Brian for this, right? Like she's like, this is not a personality. And he's like, yes, it is like my knitted sweater bags to differ. Right. But it's also like the way it is in any relationship where you're like, it's

kind of cute that this person that I love has this like semi annoying, very strange thing that they're obsessed with. And so she's like, whatever, it's fine that my dude is obsessed with lobster. Plus she's like, Brian does literally all of our cooking. Like he is our couple's chef. And so it is to my benefit to let Brian be obsessed with lobster. Oh my god. Okay. You know what this is kind of the equivalent of? What? When an Asian person dates a white person. Oh no. And the white person like is obsessed and like knows how to cook,

let's say Chinese food really, really well. And the Asian person has to be like, well, you know, like this is problematic, but like, damn, can you do that? Exactly. It's like, is this man kind of appropriating my lobster culture? Yes. But also, he's good at it. So like, we'll let him let him pop off. Right? Yeah, yes. But also, he's good at it. So like, we'll let him pop off, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let him make Shao Lung Bao from scratch. Go off, King. Sure. Oh my god. When our story takes place, Brian is depressed because lobsters are not in season until June, and it is currently February. Okay. It is February. Okay. It is February of 2020. Interesting. Am I supposed to take in this time and place as like, where about trauma is about to happen?

Yes. Okay. Brian, February of 2020 is so bummed because he's working all the time. He has an office job, he has to go there. His girlfriend, Christy, works as a waitress, so they like barely see each other, right? They're like, he goes to the office, he's miserable, she goes to the restaurant, she's miserable, they get home

at different hours, they're always asleep. So when the world shuts down in March, for what they think is two weeks, they're both like, okay, this is scary, but it's also like kind of nice that we're going to get to see each other. Like we're going to get to hang out. We can like, even though low key, we're like scared and wiping down all our groceries. It's like nice to be with someone that you love. Right. I feel like we all had a version of that feeling. Except of course, we know it wasn't two weeks. Right. And it becomes quickly clear that Brian is going to have to work from home.

So he like makes his voyage to the office in a mask, gets his stuff, sets it up in the spare bedroom. He is then in Zoom hell, right? Going into the office at 8 a.m., not leaving his room until 6 p.m., at which point he is exhausted and dead. How are you feeling? You're looking stressed. I just, I mean, I'm mostly, it's just taking me back to that feeling of like, the readjustment to zooms all the time and being at home and all that. So like, I'm, I was tough on you, Brian, to start. Now I feel for you a little bit. Yeah.

I'm cracking my red boiled shell to you a little bit. Kristi also can't go to work, right? Because she works in hospitality. So like, Brian is feeling a little resentful because he's like, I'm working all day, and then I finish working and then I get to do my like hobby that I like, which is cooking dinner, but I feel so stressed all the time now. Uh-huh. What do you think he should do here? Can I ask, do you know if Christy is a bad cook?

Good question. She does not cook. She does not cook. So we're talking like sweaters in the oven, kind of. Exactamente, yes. Exactly. Yes. Okay. Okay. I think if I were him, I'd be like, I think what a lot of people did, which is like, let's figure out like a couple easy things that you can do. So there's like a little more of a chore share. Like maybe we are doing like pasta with a jarred sauce over it and that's fine for some nights. Maybe you can microwave a pizza, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it'll be the thought that counts, and I will feel equally valued. Brian decides we have to have a conversation about division of labor, right? Right, okay. Like, who's doing what? And he's like, if I'm going to be cooking and going to work all day, I need you to do these other things. And Christie's like, that's totally fair. Like I'm happy to do all those other things. Great. So it's like, that's fine. But it's like still the cooking is a lot of

work. And you're doing that at the end of the day. And like, he's feeling exhausted all the time. About a month into the pandemic, Christiey comes to him and is like, I saw something online. It's called Big Lasagna. And everyone is going to make a big lasagna. Nat, Do you remember this? Oh, I made that fucking big lasagna. I rolled that pasta by hand. I made that fucking tomato sauce by hand. Oh my god. Yeah. I remember big lasagna for sure. Yeah. You forgot it until just now, but now you remember. Yeah. The thing about big lasagna. Okay. First off, shout out to friend of the podcast, Samin Nosrat, who wrote this recipe for the New York Times in like April of 2020 and was like, we're all making big

lasagna. And the thing about big lasagna is that it was kind of insane. Like it was like, you're going to make every piece of the lasagna by hand. And then you're going to stack it all up and you're going to cook it. And then like the lasagna is so big that you'll have a meal for like a week. Yes. Yes. You know, what's funny about it, thinking back on it now is like, do you know those TikTok accounts that are, I think, essentially rage bait, where it's the influencers who

are like, I wanted gum, and so I ended up like, xanthan, whatever, whatever. It's like, we all like to rag on that, but once upon a time, we were like, I'm going to make a lasagna, I'm going to start by getting a pottery wheel to make the container. Right. Yeah, exactly. I'm like learning to make a bechamel sauce, right, like in my kitchen, like sweating. It was so good though. Can I just say the final product was worth the juice was worth the squeeze. Yes. Okay. So in like writing this script, I was like, damn, should I make the big lasagna again? Because I was like, I remember it being really good.

It was so good. Anyway. Thank you, Samin. Okay, so Christie comes to Brian and is like, everyone's doing this big lasagna. I think big lasagna seems great. I want to make the big lasagna. But like, I know that cooking is like kind of your thing. Would it be okay with you if I went big lasagna mode? What do you think? Wait, she's going to do big lasagna? She wants to do big lasagna. No, Kristi. If you can't ride a bike, you don't get on a motorcycle. Like that's not, this is too fast, too much too fast. I think this is bad news.

Brian is like a control freak in the kitchen, right? Like he's like the kind of person that cannot share, right? Like if you're like, can I help you? Can I chop something? He's like, no, because you're gonna chop it wrong, right? So he's like, the thing is the only way you can cook the big lasagna is if I forfeit it entirely. Like I cannot help you. You have to do it by yourself.

And she's like, cool, I'll do it. That seems fair. I have to say everyone here in this story so's like, cool, I'll do it. Jared Sissling That seems fair. I have to say everyone here in this story so far is in a prison of their own making. Jessi Huykman Yes. And Christy enters jail. She lives there now in the big lasagna jail. And like the thing about big lasagna is there's a lot of videos and there's a lot of instructions. And like, is her lasagna the best big lasagna in the world? No. But she makes it. And Brian is like, I'm so proud

of you. Like you don't know how to cook and you made a whole lasagna from scratch. That's crazy. Oh my God. Good for her. She's like, yeah, like I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. And he's like, you did it, babe. And she's like, here's the thing. I think that you are really stressed and I'm worried about you. Like, could I cook some more? I have now proven that I can follow Un recipe. Like, please. Oh, I think I missed that in their dynamic that it's not just that he is the only one who cooks because he's the only one who can, it's that

he's been keeping her out. I see. Okay. So she wants to cook now. She wants to cook. She's like, I mean, she's watching him work all the time. It's like, what if when you stopped working on your Zoom call at 8pm, there was dinner for you to eat? Right. What if that? Yeah. So Brian is like, okay, compromise. You can cook on weekdays. Like, I still get to cook my special little things on the weekends, but on the weekdays, you can cook dinner. CBLE COURTNEY Cool. And the division of labor has now switched the other way where she's doing five days a week and he's doing two.

JANELLE Yes. Kristy's like, great. I love that because Kristy has too much time, right? And she is bored. So she quickly becomes embroiled in the home-cooked culture that swept the nation in early 2020. Sure. Do you remember this? I'm guessing she's making sourdough. I'm guessing that she's, what were other things that got really big at that time? Luckily for you, I have a list of things we can go through to see if you remember them.

Oh, beautiful. Let's hear it. Do you remember banana bread? Fuck yeah Do you remember growing your own scallions in a shot glass? Oh my god Yes, and I have no green thumb whatsoever Like I kill cactuses and I tried this trick and no one told me that you have to switch out the water Frequently just rot it the water fairly frequently. Oh no! So it just rotted? The smell was overwhelming.

No! Do you remember the bucatini shortage? Yes! Yes! And the flour shortage and the yeast shortage? The flour shortage, yes, yes! It was so hard to find that stuff. Yeah, do you remember jammy eggs? I still make jammy eggs, yes. It was so hard to find that stuff. Yeah. Do you remember jammy eggs? I still make jammy eggs. Yeah. They're good. I still make saucy beans too. Oh, saucy beans. Yeah.

Yeah. All of these things happened in like the first two months of the pandemic. Like, they happened like immediately. Yeah. So Christy is like getting deep in home cook culture. She is like being, you know, dumped into the ocean to learn to swim. She's like watching Molly Baz videos, right? She's making Alice and Roman cookies. This is fine, except nothing she makes is like really that great. And also the kitchen is always a disaster. So like when Brian wants one glass of water or to

cook on the weekend, it's like covered in flour. I see. And I'm sure Brian with his like, yes, chef mentality is like losing his mind. Exactly. Yes. This is the dynamic when one day Brian gets a text. Okay. And this text is from Lawrence. Sweet, beautiful Lawrence is Brian's lobster guy.

They're on a texting basis. Lawrence is a hometown hero. He's like one of those giant men, like beefy men who has like a red beard and like all American traditional tattoos and like is always wearing a perfect sweater. BOWEN Yes, I can picture it completely. KSTERI Yes, I can picture it completely. KSTERI Brian admires Lawrence the way that straight men admire other straight men, which is to say he has a crush on him. BOWEN Yes, okay.

KSTERI And Brian is like, oh my God, Lawrence is texting me, I can't believe I forgot all about him. Like we've been so busy with work, this is terrible. And the text is like, hey, everyone, clearly a form text that's going to lots of people. Hey, everyone, just wanted to let everyone know that me and the Mrs. are going down to Florida to ride this all out until lobster season comes back.

Terrible. Yeah. Lobster man is leaving. The text continues. I just wanted to ask everyone for a favor. My cousin, Jax, J-A-X, usually sells fish to restaurants, but with all the restaurants closed, he's selling direct to consumers. If you want to buy some fish, he's going to be selling fresh caught fish in like

this person's front yard on Tuesdays. I see. What do you think about this? This was also kind of a pandemic thing. Is the like buying in bulk or like direct from restaurant like I feel like a lot of restaurants are like we're just going to sell our inventory now. Yes. So I feel this is also bringing back feelings of like, Oh, right. I picked up so many boxes of just like, yeah, fancy groceries or whatever. Eating like a weird tasting menu in your apartment, right?

Unhappily. Yes. Brian is like, if Lawrence is asking me to help his cousin Jax, I'm going to help him. So he tells Christy, he's like, can you please go to Lawrence the lobster guy's cousin's thing? He like sends Christy the text. He sends her the Instagram post. He sends her like the time and stuff. He's like,y the text, he sends her the Instagram post, he sends her

like the time and stuff. He's like, I gotta support my guy. And Christy's like, of course, like she also loves Lawrence. Everyone loves Lawrence. Like sometimes if it's your birthday or anniversary or something, Lawrence will give you free clams. So everyone's like, Lawrence is the love of my life, right? And also, as you mentioned, there was a lot of valor in buying things early on in the pandemic. Like, it was very easy to be like, I'm the best person in the world, because I'm supporting my community. And like mutual aid is me buying myself dinner, me buying cocktails to go in a quart container to walk around my neighborhood. That's community

care, baby. Oh my god, batch cocktails in a jar. So, Christie and Brian are both on board. They're like, we're going to support Lawrence the Lobster Guy's cousin, Jax, by buying his fish. So the first week this is happening, Christie goes, apparently, the whole community got this text. The whole community was like, we'll take care of your cousin for you, beloved lobster man, because by the time Christy gets there, there are no fish left.

Ah, okay. How are you feeling at this point? Let's check in. Here's my worry for them. Please. As someone who has at times in my life been part of like a CSA. It seems all well and good. We were like, I'm going to get a bunch of raw and green. It's going to be great. And then it's like the New Yorker where it's impressive in its abundance and its regularity. And so I'm just

worried what they're buying into. One can only eat so much fish. Yeah. You can only use so many cloves of garlic, right? Exactly. So I wonder where this is going for them. The next Tuesday comes, and when Brian emerges from all his meetings, there is a nice dinner on the table, and the dinner is fish. And Christie's like, I went to the pop-up, I got the fish. And Brian's like, thank you so much for going.

Did you meet Lawrence the Lobster Man's cousin, Jax? And she's like, oh my God, yes, but Jax does not look like Lawrence. Huh. And Brian's like, what do you mean? And Christie's like, I don't know, Lawrence is like kind of cuddly. And Brian's like, you think Lawrence the Lobster Man

is cuddly? And she's like, yeah, he's like a soft man. Like his hair looks soft, his sweaters are soft. She's like, Jack's is the opposite. He's like very lean and he's like wearing the most insane thing I've ever seen. Okay. And Brian is like, what thing? And she's like, well, I thought at first that it was like a tool belt. But then when I got closer, I realized that it wasn't a tool belt. It's actually cargo shorts that have been cut so that only the waistband

and the pockets on the side remain. And then he buttoned that on top of his jeans. Okay. Okay. Huh. Brian's like, what? And she's like, yeah, it's like just the pockets. He had a bunch of stuff in them. Huh. And Brian's like, okay, this is strange. What else was happening there? And she's like, oh my God,

it was such a cute little operation, right? Like kind of small, couple coolers in a table. It felt super safe. Like you told him what you wanted. Everyone's wearing a mask. He put it on the table. It felt super safe. Like you told him what you wanted, everyone's wearing a mask, he put it on the table. You Vinmode him with a fish emoji, which is good because at this time people are scared

of cash and also there was a coin shortage. And then he backs up, you take your fish, bing, bang, boom. Brian's like, that sounds great. I love that for you. And Christie's like, yeah, the only thing is it was like really expensive for fish. And Brian's like, yeah, the only thing is it was like really expensive for fish. And Brian's like, honestly, that's fine.

Not a lot of people have jobs right now. I still have a job. I'm still making money. Like I will support my lobster guy and his cousin at all costs. Right, right, right. Also a familiar feeling from that time. They eat the fish. The fish is good, but it's not great.

And he's like, Christy, how did you cook this? And Christy's like, oh, I just roasted it. And he's like, with oil and salt? And she's like, uh, no, not really. I mean, I figured since it was so fresh, I was better to like leave the natural flavor. So I just put some arranged lemons and oranges on the top of it. Like I saw on Alison Roman's Instagram. And he's like, baby, I love you, but you have to use oil and salt.

She just raw dog that fish in the. Amazing. She tastes the fish. She's like, Oh my God, you're so right. This needs salt so badly. And he's like, Okay, so next week, you're going to use oil and salt. And she's like, Yes. Next week comes, he's busy. He's stuck in meetings till eight. This is terrible. When he comes to dinner, Christy fills them all in. She's like, you know, there's this happened a lot in the pandemic,

where like one person was in meetings all day and exhausted and the other person was like starved for social interaction. So it was like one wants to talk so badly the other wants silence. So Christie's talking, talking, talking, and she's like, it was busier this week. There were more coolers. Lots of people were there. It was very exciting. I waved to our neighbors, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She's like, I used oil and salt this week and lemons. So I think it's gonna be really good. Okay. They taste the fish. It's still fine.

Brian's like, I don't understand what she's doing to this fish. Like, why does it taste like this? So. Music Every week she makes fish on Tuesday. It's fine. She's so happy to be supporting Jackson the community. He's so happy to be supporting Jackson the community. As the weeks go by, this operation is really growing.

There are tin coolers. People like sharing recipes in an email chain. There's like one week where everyone bakes ceviche together. It's like just like big lasagna. It always tastes fine. And Brian is always like, thank you so much for dinner, honey. I love it. Because he's like, it's nice of her to cook.

Jax at this point has like a whole professionalized Instagram, right? And so Brian's following that. And he sees one day that Jax is like, Hey, new announcement, we're gonna have more varieties of fish now. Okay, Brian's like, that rules. He's like, maybe if Christie got a different kind of fish, it would be better. Do you broach this to Christy? Like, what do you think? I think there's totally, he has total coverage to just say, we're eating this every week. We, you know, like our whole life right now is about the same routine over and over again.

He has total coverage to be like, let's just switch up the fish for variety. Like I think he can do that without hurting anyone's feelings. Yes. He's like, I'm not going to tell her that I think the fish is fine every week when she cooks it. I'm going to say, hey, I saw there was a new fish. Like new fish just dropped. Maybe we could try it. And Christie's like, oh my God, great idea. Right? They like decide which of the other fish they're going to cook. They pick a recipe. She like goes the next Tuesday. She texts him from Jack's thing. She's like, I got the cod. It came from a bigger cooler. He's like, this is huge. I love this. He like sits down at the table that night to eat it. He takes a bite and he's like, this

is the same fucking fish. Oh, it's not even the different variety that was promised. It tastes identical. What do you do? You're Brian. Your cute girlfriend has prepared fish for you for the eighth week in a row. I think this is the moment where you can say what you've been feeling because now it is truly not her problem. Like, it's, you can say like, this tastes like the same fish and that's not your fault. That is somebody who told you it was a different fish. So whether or not he's going to do it, I think this could be his moment to fess up.

You know when you've had a lot of bad things happen in a row and then one more bad thing happens and it breaks you in half? This is the one more bad thing for Brian. He is crying. And Kristy is like, why are you crying? I'm so sorry, did I make the fish wrong? And he's like, it's just like, it's so many meetings and like things are so scary. And I was like, really looking forward to having a different fish today. And Christie is like, but I got a different fish today. Huh. You're Brian, you're like 75% sure that this is an identical fish.

How are you continuing this conversation? I think I'm calling a spade a spade. I'm like, we're being swindled somehow. Like, you know, like, we want to support this small business, but something isn't adding up. Something smells fishy, in fact. Brian is like, how did you prepare this fish? Like, what did you do?

He's like, maybe it's just the preparation that makes it taste the same, right? And Christie is like, I'm really trying my best. Like, I know I'm not as good of a cook as you, but like, I'm really trying. Like, I got a different fish and like, it's like a nice lemony garlic sauce. Like, I'm so sorry. And Brian's like, no, no, no, no, no. I know that you lemony garlic sauce. Like, I'm so sorry.

And Brian's like, no, no, no, no, no. I know that you're doing your best. Like, I'm not blaming you. I just like, I really think this is the same fish. And she like goes into the kitchen and she's like, okay, here's the like wrapper it came in, right? Like, see, it says cod. And he's like, okay, I think maybe J's just like got mixed up and gave you the same fishes last week.

I see. And Christie's like, yeah, maybe. But like he feels so bad. How are you feeling at this point? I think everyone's in their feelings. Everyone's a little emotional. I'm going to tuck away suspicions for now and be like, I'm going to take it back a notch and say, like, I'm sorry, you know, this is, you're doing your best. I appreciate it. I think I'm going to return to the fantasy

land where we're both living in. She's doing a fine job. This is a different fish. Yes. That is exactly what happens. Brian is like, I'm not gonna say another word about this. She could serve me this same fish forever that is fine, and I will say I love it. I appreciate her, right? She is helping me. The next Tuesday, he comes out of his terrible hellhole of Zooms, and at his place on the table are two plates.

Okay. And on each plate is a fish filet. And Christy is like, after I got really upset last week, I didn't want to talk about it anymore, but it kind of like wormed its way into my brain. And I was like, what if he's right? She's like, so I thought about what you were saying. And today I got two different kinds

of fish and I prepared them the same way. And now you can try them. Smart. You like that? That's brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this. Brian is like, this is thrilling.

He's like, this is the most interesting thing that has happened to me in lots. There's no intrigue in the world, right? He's like all amped up. He looks at the fish. The fish look identical. He's like, okay, bad start. He tastes the first fish. It tastes fine. He drinks a little water. He tastes the second fish. It tastes fine. They taste exactly the same. Brian's like, are you fucking with me? Like, these are the same fish and you just put them on these plates like as a bit. Like that's a really good bit. And Christie's like, I promise you I am not fucking with you.

Like here are the papers. They are two different fish. Oh my god. So now you think that Jax has been giving you the same fish no matter what kind of fish you order. What do you do with this information? Do they have friends who have also been purchasing fish from Jax? Great question. Yes.

Okay. I think I'm going on an information gathering. I'm not going directly to Jax yet. I'm seeing if other people have the same experience. Okay. So the first thing they do is they ask the other people they know that are getting this fish share. And they're all like, we get the fish.

They always taste fine, no problems here. And they're like, okay, interesting that your fish also tastes fine, right? Not good, not great, fine. They're like three months into the pandemic at this point. So they have like a pod of people that they're seeing, right? Like safely.

And so Christy is like, okay, I work as a waitress at a restaurant. There's a chef from my restaurant in our pod. She's like, so we're going crazy. Like Tiger King is over. This is our mystery. We are locked in. She's like, I'm roping the chef into this, right?

He's a fucking chef. So she's like, hey, chef, can you identify a fish for me? And he's like, yeah, totally send the fish over. So she like sends a pic of the first fish to the group thread and is like, what fish is this? And the chef's like, I don't know, man, it like looks like a tilapia, I guess, like some kind of white fish. And Chrissy's like, okay, thank you. What about this one? And the chef is like, those look the same. Oh my God. He's like, but I'd have to taste them

to like tell you what kind of fish it is. Okay. Christie's like, great, I'll be right over. So she and Brian take her two fish, which are not eaten yet, go over to the chef's house and are like, here you go, taste these. He tastes the first fish. He's like, this is not a good fish. They're like, yes. He tastes the second fish. He's like, okay, these are the same fish. And they're like, we fucking do it. We knew it was the same fish, right? They're

like high-fiving, right? They're thrilled. Yes. And he's like, where did you get these fish, right? He's like still tasting them and like looking confused. And they're like, oh, they're from Jack's. And the chef is like, Lawrence, the lobster man's cousin. And they're like, yeah. And he's like, okay. I don't know what kind of scam that man is pulling.

But not only do I know that these are the same fish, I know what fish they are. Is it not even like a nice fish? What kind of fish is it? They're like, what kind of fish is it, man? And the chef is like, listen, I'm like 99% sure that these are the frozen tilapia fillets that I buy every single week from the big box store. Of course, of course. That's amazing.

You know what the tell should have been? When he expanded the offerings. It's like when you see a restaurant that has a sign that says, we do sushi now. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, frozen Big Box store tilapia filets in fancy wrappers to many people in your community. Listen, if I'm Christy and I have the time in the world right now. All the time. I'm going to Amazon, I'm buying a wig and a trench coat. I'm headed to Big Box store and I am camping out in that fish section waiting for evidence. I love that plan. That is a really good plan. They are kind of like, okay, Jax is small

business owner and right now in this country we are obsessed with small business owners and I like helping them. They're like, so if we're gonna accuse him of pulling a scam, we need to be absolutely sure that we're right. So their pod is like, because now this other couple is in on this, right? They're like, we're devoted to this fish mystery. And so they're like, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna test again next week with controls. They decide someone else has to go to get the fish, right? Christie can't go because like Christie's been going every week and Jax knows that Christie's not a good cook.

Right? So it's possible that he's just giving her the same fish because he knows she won't know any better. Right? Right. Like Brian can't go because like he's Lawrence the Lobster Man's friend. Chef can't go because chef is known by all of these people. So they're like, Chef's wife is going to go.

So Chef's wife goes to Jack's and she buys the fish. She buys two different kinds of fish. Chef goes to the big box store. He buys frozen tilapia. They decide, you know, Christie's not that good of a home cook. Her methods are a little inconsistent. Chef is gonna do the cooking. Okay.

They go to chef's house. Chef is like, I'm gonna prepare them all the same way. And then we are gonna execute a blind taste test. Uh-huh. So he does this. He puts the three filets, fish A, fish B, and the big box stir tilapia on their plates. They're all made the same way. He's like, you're each gonna try one, right?

Uh-huh. Everyone's tasting, right? They're tasting fish A, they're tasting fish B, they're tasting fish C. Christy's like, this is so much better than when I made it. And chef is like, thank you. They're testing fish B again, right? All of these fishes are the same, right? They're like, these are the same.

And the chef is like, please do not discuss, please vote. Which one of these do you think is the tilapia? Brian's like, I think it's fish A. Christy's like, I think it's fish C. Chef wife is like, I think it's fish B. Chef is like, good job honey, B was correct. And she's like, to be honest, I was guessing all of these taste the same. Oh, no. How do you feel about this controlled experiment? Do you think it is good? I mean, I think it's pretty undeniable after such a, you know, well executed experiment. In my mind, he's guilty. Like I'm jumping straight to guilty. No trial by jury, straight guilt.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I also should say, and maybe this is my broken brain, if that is the case that he's been buying from Big Buck store and selling, like, go off. I love that. Like, I just... You know the story of the girl who, like, snuck into Stanford's dorm

even though she didn't get accepted and went to classes for like a couple weeks. No, but that's hilarious. Yeah, yeah. And then they kicked her out. And I, when I heard that story, I was like, they should let her into Stanford because like that's- Yeah, she's clearly brilliant. Yeah, there's like- Let her stay. Ingenuity there. And so I'm like, this small business guy, like he figured out a supply

chain that these people would accept. So yeah, I mean, is it it's still local if the chef if the big box store is down the street, right? Yeah, local fish. Chef and Brian are like, this is ridiculous. They're like, it's time for us to do math. They're like, it's been like us to do math. They're like, it's

been like 10 weeks that he's been doing this. There's probably like 250 orders of fish every week. That's like $4,000 in fish sales. They're like, and this fish that you're buying at the Big Box store is worth like $1,000 max for all of it. They're like, so this man is making a $3,000 profit They have not reached your state of tranquility yet. The chef is pissed because he's like, all these fish suck. Right? Brian and Christie are pissed because they're like, we've spent what it seems to be like a nice sum of money on frozen big box tilapia.

And so has everyone in our neighborhood. Right. Right. Brian and Christie are getting all worked up. They're like, should we sue? And the chef is like, you're going to sue your highly illegal fish market? He's like, that's like reporting your drug dealer for shorting you an eighth. You can't sue someone for this. The justice system is useless to you here. Yeah. Yeah. Plus the sheer embarrassment of having to describe how you've been had in

this way. You know, explaining that I think would be embarrassing. What other option do you have? Oh. Well, at this point you have information that you can just quietly spread to the masses. But then you would have to explain to Jax why all the business dried up. Yes. So I don't know. I mean, I think I'm telling people what the deal is, but then I don't know what to do about Jax and what his questions will be.

You have to remember that Brian's number one loyalty is to Lawrence the lobster guy. The lobster guy, right. And so he's like, if we tell everyone and then Jax's business dries up, he's gonna tell Lawrence that we killed his business, right? And that's bad for me. Right. But also I don't want people buying

expensive big box frozen tilapia. He's like, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna confront Jax, right? And hopefully in this confrontation, I can be, what I'm going to do is I'm going to confront Jax, right? And hopefully in this confrontation, I can be like, I'm happy to support you, but you're lying. Please stop lying and we will buy fresh fish from you. Like, that's fine. Everyone's like, great idea, Brian. We love it. So the next Tuesday he goes and he's like, hey man, we need to talk. And Jax is like, I'm sorry, who are you? And Brian is like, Oh, sorry, I'm Brian. I'm Christie's boyfriend. Christie like waves. And Jax is like, Okay. And Brian is like, Yeah, Lawrence is my buddy. Like we're buddies. And Jax is like, Okay. And Brian's like, Listen, we know what you're doing with the fish. Like

we know that they're all the same kind. And Jax is like, I don't know what you're doing with the fish. Like, we know that they're all the same kind. And Jax is like, I don't know what you're talking about. We have four different kinds of fish. And Brian's like, we also know that they're all coming from the big box store. Like you've got to stop. And Jax is like, listen, man, I don't have time for this conversation.

And then he gets into his car and he drives away and everyone is like, where's Jax going? And Brian is like, I don't know. And then Jax is gone. And they never hear from him again. What? He just up and disappears? He Irish combined his own fish thing. Wow. I've never like what a way to confirm your guilt. It's just to, like, loony tunes disappear

in a cloud of smoke as you're running out of town. Yeah. We're almost at the end. How do you feel? And whose side are you on at this point? Honestly, honestly, again, broken brain. Congratulations, Jax, a perfect crime. We salute you.

And what I really would love to happen is for Lawrence to come back and be like, oh, I'm so sorry, my cousin Jax, like I know he never made it. And they'd be like, what do you mean? Jax has been selling fish for, I just want it to be so like a scammer. Like that would that would really be delicious. I do have a few more updates for you. Okay. The first one is that after Jax left town,

everybody kind of just moved on. Like she did a lot of wild stuff during the pandemic and everyone was like, we're all fine. Like he needed money. Like, it's probably fine. People's focus was like drawn elsewhere, right? Like every home cook was distracted in 2020 because Bon Appétit was imploding. So they were like, we have a lot of other things to think about. One final question I have for you is, you're Brian. Do you contact Lawrence the Lobster Man about any of this? I am going to say if I were Brian, no. I'm going to say it was like a weird blip. We all got had.

We can all put our tails between our legs. At this point, I think the priority is a continued good relationship with Lawrence, the lobster guy. Yeah. Brian is like, the cons are like, maybe Lawrence would be mad at me. Right. And that would be terrible. Right.

And then I might have to find a new lobster guy, which would also be terrible. And he's like, but the pros are like, maybe I get justice in some way. Maybe he won't do it again. He's like, but the biggest pro is that I get to talk to Lawrence. So Brian decides I'm going to text him. Oh my God, Brian, why? So he texts Lawrence the Lobster Man and he's like, Lawrence, a lot of shit has been happening. And he tells him everything. And Lawrence is like, God damn it. I thought he wasn't going to do this again.

He told me he was clean. He told me it was different this time. I took away his Bing Rock Store membership. I tried to stop this. away his Bing Rock store membership. I tried to stop this. JAY Oh my god, Jax is the music man. He's going town to town, selling them band instruments and conning. STACEY Brian is like, what do you mean? You thought he wasn't going to do this again? Has he done this before? And Lawrence is like, oh,

yeah, man, like 10 years ago in a different part of the country. He ran the same scam with shrimp Which is bold because Package shrimp in the difference is is fast stark Brian is like, oh my god And Lawrence is like, I'm so sorry man. Like I should have known better What and Brian's like, it's okay, I forgive you. And Lawrence is like, where is he? Like I'm gonna deal with him. And Brian is like, I don't know.

Like he's gone. He like disappeared in the wind. And Lawrence is like, God damn it. Like I can't believe this happened again. And Brian's like, are you coming back? And Lawrence is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be back for the season. Oh my God. And sure enough, he came back and he caught lobster. And despite the pandemic, all the lobsters

were fine and there were plenty of them. And he gave Brian free clams all summer for his trouble, and sometimes even a free lobster. See, again, perfect crime. Everyone came out on top. Yeah. In the end, Brian got free lobster, which Kristi did not cook. Yeah. Kristi fell out of love with home cooking, you know, from either overexposure and exhaustion or half of the cooks she watched being canceled, who's to say. And she got very good at making rolls.

And so together they had lobster rolls all summer long, and they never saw Jacks again. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Wow. You know what? I think everyone got their money's worth out of this whole experience.

You know, like maybe the fresh fish was the scam we solved along the way. Do you know what I mean? Wow. No, explain it. Like at the height of pandemic, when people were locked away or like trying to be good and staying home and you know, like sort of in their houses. All you wanted was for something to happen. Like something that made it feel like life was happening. And I gotta say, as much as they got scammed out of money, like life happened for these people.

Yeah. I mean, I guess that's the real question is like in April of 2020, would you have paid, I don't know, $300 to have this story? Oh, maybe not that money. Tobin, thank you so much for coming on the podcast again. It was a joy to have you on. Listen, I will come back whenever you send up the Gossip Bat signal. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679Gossip.

If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at normal gossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at at McKinney Kelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujong Loughlin, Ozzy Lena Schudman, and Jay Tolviera. Justin Ellis is Defectors projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's Business Guys. Alex Sujong-Loughlin is Defector's Supervising Producer.

Tom Lay is our Editor-in-Chief. Abigail Siegel is our Intern. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Rachel Hampton, Brandi Jensen, Sabrina Imbler, Dave McKenna, Chris Thompson, Heather Chen, Ray Rado, David Roth, Catherine Xu, Jasper Wang, Israel Deramola, and Patrick Redford for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff.

Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radio-Topia. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm Tiffany and remember, you did not hear this from me.