Normal Gossip - Romancing the Stoned with Jenée Desmond-Harris

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

Jeneé Desmond-Harris joins us for a tale of patriotism, fire drills, and accidentally getting too stoned at the wrong time. Listen to Dear Prudence and follow Jenée on Twitter here. PRE-ORDER KELSEY'S BOOK, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, HERE!!!Subscribe to our new newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) and Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas). Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira) is our associate producer. Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor.Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Did you know that Radiotopia has a reality dating podcast? It's called Hang Up and it's like a queer cross between The Bachelor and Love is Blind. Hang Up is hosted by the amazing Zakiya Gibbons, who was on our last season of Normal Gossip. And it's a blast. Hang Up's tagline is No Rings Attached. It's a refreshing focus on dating and connection, rather than marriage. On Hangup, you don't just get to eavesdrop on dates. There's also a series of eliminations.

And in the end, there's a twist. Will the last caller standing choose the star and go on an all-expenses paid vacation together? Or will they choose a cash prize instead? The new season is out now, so stay on the line. Subscribe to Hang Up Today on your favorite podcast platform. Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am fucking thrilled to have with me today, Janee Desmond-Harris. Janee is Slate's Dear Prudence advice columnist.

She answers letters about relationships, work, family, and life in general in a weekly column and an accompanying podcast. Janee and I also worked together very early in my career, so I am so excited to have her here. Janaye, welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm so, so, so excited to be here. Oh my God. I'm so excited that you're here.

We have a nice long history together at this point. Well, I was going to say, we go way back to many years and many jobs ago. Back when I was a wee child. But you know what? I remember I loved gossiping with you even back then. Do you want to talk a little bit about how gossip plays into your podcast? Oh, yeah. I mean, I think there are two kinds of gossip. So you know how in journalism there's the breaking news, the hard news, and then there's the opinion and analysis? I think when most people think about gossip, they're

thinking about the breaking news. Someone's getting divorced, someone's cheating, someone had a BBL, these people are looking up, it's a secret. There's only so much of that kind. I don't get a ton of really, really juicy dramatic gossip anymore. That's true. Yeah. So I really love the opinion and analysis gossip. And so that's the kind of gossip I'm usually doing with my friends if we don't have anything super big and explosive. If there's no breaking news. Yeah. It's a slow news day in the friend group.

Exactly. Yeah. I can always do an op-ed. I'm always willing to do a gossip op-ed anytime. Do you want to talk a little bit or like also I'm just curious how gossip functions within your marriage. You've been married, it's almost your anniversary. It was just your anniversary? Yes, I've been married for seven years. Thank you. Gossip is huge. I don't know how much you believe in astrological signs, but my husband and I are both Geminis.

Oh my God. I love Geminis. We're both just people who can just be entertained just by reflecting on stuff, talking about stuff, being a little bit petty about stuff. I've talked a lot about how we keep a list of things to discuss that we want to get the other person's opinion on. Where do you keep the list? A Google doc. A Google doc. Okay. We want to get the other person's opinion on. Where do you keep the list? A Google Doc. A Google Doc. Okay, great. The Google Doc works. Well, we started with a text. So we'll say add and that means add to the list for discussion, colon. And sometimes, honestly, a lot of

times it's just somebody's tweet, you know, she's at it again. a lot of times it's just somebody's tweet, you know, she's at it again. Put that on the list. Or add, do you think Kamala Harris is happy right now? I mean, it's really, it could be anything like that, right? And if we get news from our friend, we'll put it on their ad. So and so broke up with whoever, can you believe it? We started this practice when we worked from a one bedroom apartment together and we could not just interrupt each other all day. Right. And it ended up being helpful once we had a kid, just had less time to talk.

And so when we do get time to go for a walk or sit and hang out, we'll pull up the list and like- That's so smart. Yeah. Because it makes the most of your talking time. Because instead of saying, how was your day? It was fine. I got some work done. Right. You can say, did you see what Kelsey had on Instagram?

Something I really admire about Geminis in my experience is that though I don't think you're the biggest grudge holders of the zodiac signs, you're very good at being like, we could have a grudge on this person. It's like the list of people who could be promoted to enemy at any minute. Geminis always have them. They're like, these are all the people that we could hate. Definitely. And I'm like, I forgot that person existed entirely. These are all the people who, you know, we have a thorough critique. Yeah, we have some opinions about them. Did you bring a gossip for me? I did. So I have a friend who has had some great career success lately.

Okay, congratulations. She's in the Kelsey McKinney type of zone right now. Oh, Jesus. Oh, by the way, congratulations on your book. Thank you. That's so nice. So she's taken sort of author photo type things. She's been on TV. She's had some public events. And she's really thriving.

And she, as a result, needed a really great manicurist. So she ended up going to this woman who is kind of celebrity adjacent. She found her on Instagram, where the woman has a really big following. And she's done nails for people who, they're not Serena Williams, they're not Taylor Swift, they're not Beyonce, but you would be impressed if you saw whose nails she's done, right?

Yes. So she was in my friend's city and my friend was lucky enough to get an appointment with her. So my friend had a good experience, beautiful nails, and she had a really good rapport with this woman. Oh, great. So about a month later, she gets a text from this woman asking, do you know of anyone who might have a room for me to stay in when I come to your city?

Okay. A room like for sleeping or a room for working? For sleeping. Okay. For sleeping. And that's a little weird to me because she's supposed to be really fancy and celebrity adjacent. And I would think she could afford a hotel, but you never know what's going on in people's

bank accounts and what obligations they have. So my friend is super generous and she was like, oh, absolutely. You can stay in our guest house. She has a little ADU or whatever that no one was using at the time. Okay. I'm already, I'm like, I can't imagine having spent, I assume, like what, one hour, two hours max with someone doing your nails and then being like, yes, live in my house. Right? Like that's a level of intimacy that I'm like, I don't think we're there yet, babe. But my friend is a big extrovert and a real people person.

Okay. And one thing about her, she really connects with people easily and she sees the best in everyone. Oh, could not be me. Couldn't be me. So nail artist moves in, she stays for three days, no problem. She also allows my friend to sneak into the schedule to get her nails done while she's in town. Well, I mean, that does feel like the least she could do. Feels like it, right? Because you're staying in her house.

But my friend still has to pay. But it's not cheap. Is this woman paying to stay in her house? No. No. So it's like what she gave her in return was an appointment, not a free appointment. Yeah. What I believe in is a bartering system.

And the thing is, when you're bartering for goods, the goods need to be of equal value. So the appointment is not worth, I'm assuming, more than one night in someone else's home. Right. But anyway, like I said, my friend has had some success and she could afford it and whatever. Okay. And you said that she liked her nails the first time she went, right? She loved her nails. Okay. So it kind of makes sense. So a couple months later, she gets a text that says,

can I come stay in your guest house again and can my partner come? My friend is like, she has a little bit of a feeling that this is getting to be kind of a lot. But okay, no problem. Once again, she's placed on the schedule. Once again, she gets her nails done. But due to some over scheduling issues, she's at the shop for seven hours. Seven hours? She's actually running late for some things she has to do, so she ends up leaving with wet nails. Yeah, I bet she is because she was at the nail salon for seven hours.

Yeah. Increasingly frustrated the whole time, and the woman's not particularly apologetic. It's just kind of like, you should still be grateful that you got on my schedule. This is a crazy way to behave. Right. Exactly. So she leaves with wet nails. They end up getting smudged, but shit happens. It's fine. So at this point, the nail artist asks if she can stay a few extra days. Okay. At this point, I'm like, it's called a boundary. And I'm going to need you to learn about one and then erect one because I'm like, you are no longer benefiting from this relationship

with someone who is not your friend. Right? Like from everything you've said, it's not like it's like, oh, she goes to work all day and then she comes back and we like drink wine on the porch and gab and we're developing an intimate emotional friendship. It's like, no, this is your nail artist. And the woman's partner was there with her. She was having a getaway with her partner. So my friend says, okay, you can stay a few hours. And then it becomes a few more days until it has turned into two weeks. What? She's been there for two weeks.

No, no, no, no, no. My friend is still thinking, well, no one was using the guest house anyway, it's not that big of a deal. But then she starts getting these somewhat demanding texts such as, we need extra towels. Bitch, this is not a hotel. She was like, she was treating me like it was a hotel and was really confusing. Please restock the toilet paper. Could I please have clean sheets today?

Oh, yeah. No, no. Yeah, but guess who brought the housekeeping cart and refreshed everything? Oh my god. My very nice friend. She brings me home with her messed up nails. I'm like, I love you. Do not do this for everyone. This is a way to behave for people who you love.

This is for your mom. Yes. Your mom and not that many other people. No. Okay. Finally, it's the last day of the stay and my friend goes back there to say goodbye. And the nail artist casually mentions the toilet is backed up. But it's beyond backed up. It's actually overflowing. It's a massive disgusting mess.

And it has it has stunk up the entire guesthouse. Oh my god. Part of the reason they needed so many towels was that the towels were being used to absorb sewage. The overflowing toilet. Yeah, on the floor. Oh my god. so many towels, the towels were being used to absorb sewage. The overflowing toilet. Yeah, on the floor. Oh my god.

And at this point, the nail artist shares that it's been that way for the past eight days. You've been living in a house with an overflowing toilet for eight days? And then they've been going across the street to Dunkin' Donuts to use the bathroom. What? Yeah. Oh my God. Wait, this also, okay, hold on.

Doing a little bit of math real quick in my head, which I'm famously bad at. This also means that when she asked to stay for a few extra days, the toilet was already clogged. Yeah. Yeah. So either maybe she didn't want to, she was avoiding the confrontation about the toilet. And thought it would resolve. Or it was just really working for her.

She was really fine with the Dunkin' Donuts walk every morning. A thing about plumbing is that it doesn't really magically resolve. It's not one of those things that it's just like, oh, this problem is fixed now. It's like, no, you have to hire a guy. So my friend finds a new artist. She doesn't hear anything from this woman. She figures she never will. Oh my God, there's more.

Okay, continue. A month later, she reaches out to try to book the guest house again. No! So my friend reaches out to me and she goes, what should I say? I said, obviously you have to say no, obviously. And she pulls herself together to say no. I asked her, how did you explain it? She said, I told her the toilet was still clogged.

Honestly, I would have been afraid to tell her that because apparently this woman is fine with living somewhere with a clogged toilet. There's plenty of retail establishments on your blog. Don't worry, there's a Dunkin' Donuts that I could go to. I'll be right there. Like, oh my God. Janaye, thank you for this gossip. I loved it.

Do you want to hear the gossip that I have for you? Absolutely. Have you ever taken any kind of like drug or alcohol that has made you all woozy during an important time? Yeah. Can you tell me about it? I was at my husband's house for Christmas, I think it was either right before or right after we were married. And actually my mom came with me and it was just stressful having the in-laws meet each

other. And my mom had just gotten into eating an edible now and then. Iconic. And so I decided to have one too. And I had just a little too much. And all through Christmas, I just, I couldn't stop laughing and I just felt not okay in a weird way. And I ended up telling everyone I just had a really, really bad headache and kind of

going into the corner. Because I didn't, I also was self-conscious about how I was behaving. I don't think it was bad. But anyway, I felt really, really woozy and it made me self-conscious and it made me more stressed than I would have been if I was just dealing with typical family stress. I think unfortunately, you're really going to identify with this story today. Okay. So our friend of a friend, we're going to call her Uma. When we meet her today, she's like

primping for a date, right? She's like taking an everything shower. It's like hair, body face, right? Like the whole thing. She is supposed to meet her date at 9 PM. That's late. Is it late? Well, that's my question for you is how do you feel about this time for a date? It feels really late to me. I'm wondering if it's reflecting a wash lifestyle on my part. I would think normal for dinner drinks would be more seven or eight. Yeah. So this is only drinks.

Okay. And it is kind of clear what the winking intention of the 9 p.m. meeting time is, right? Have a drink and then go home? Yes. Okay. And she was on board with that? And she's on board with that because this man is hot. And he's giving book talk hot, written by a woman man.

So it's tall, lots of hair, looks strong enough to hoist you, and giant hands, veins on the forearm, that whole thing. Okay. So romance novel cover. Yes. Do you think that this is, is this a reason to go on a 9pm date? You're like, he's hot as shit. Sure.

Yeah. Okay. She goes to the bar, he's there. She's like immediately a little nervous because he seems like very aloof, like unfocused. And she's like, maybe he doesn't like me, right? Like maybe I'm like too short, right? Maybe there's some kind of problem. What do you do? Or maybe he's nervous because he likes you so much.

What do you do here? See how you feel after the first drink. See if you're both more calm. That's what alcohol is for, right? Yeah. She's like, we'll order our drinks. She's like, and then I'm going to ask him like one of those questions that is like just to like get to know you like insane either or. Okay. So the one I'm going to use as an example here is one that was circulating on Twitter recently, which is, would you rather have every single drink that you consume for the rest of your life have one drop of pee in it or wear a fedora every day?

What kind of Twitter are you on? What do you think? The pee, because I just think it would totally get like watered down. And I would just try to forget about it. An interesting thing that I have noticed is that there is kind of a gender divide in this. In that like many women I have asked this question to and that I have seen respond to it are like, one drop of pee, that's fine. It's sterile, who knows?

I'll forget about it. This man on this date is like Fedora. And so this girl is like, I'm no longer referring to this man in my head as like booktuck man. I am now referring to him as Fedora man. So Fedora guy has one cocktail. He does really loosen up. He starts like looking at her more, they're engaging. I thought he would. Yeah, you were so right.

And she's like, do you wanna go back to my place? And he's like, yes. So they both drive their cars, like he follows her, they get there, he has to duck through the doorway and she's like, I'm in love with him. Right? Like he's so tall. He's like six, five.

He's so tall. Wow. They're like, oh, we'll watch a movie on the couch, right? Ostensibly. We're going to watch a movie on the couch. And so they put on a movie, they're starting to kiss. When he asks her one of the top five most upsetting questions you can be asked while making out, which is,

what is that smell? You know what, that's the first thing that popped into my head. Really? Yeah. Why? Because I was just watching TikToks about, this is the part of TikTok I'm on, how to tell someone they stink in an intimate situation and people were doing different scripts for it.

Uma immediately is panicking because she's like, what is that smell? It's like, do I smell? She's like, I don't smell. She's sniffing through me asleep. She did her everything shower. She's like, I don't smell anything. What smell? And he's like sniffing and he's like, it smells like smoke. And then the fire alarms go off. Oh boy. And Uma is like, God damn it. I'm being cock blocked by fire alarms. That is not fair.

This man does not say a lot. He pulls on his shoes. He's like, we should go outside. The fire alarms are going off. And she's like, yeah, okay, smart, I guess. They go outside and it's like the fire alarms are not stopping, right? Like it's not one of those things where like you go outside and you wait three minutes the fire alarms go off and you get to come back in. So he's like, I'm going

to go home. Like I don't know how long this is going to take, but like would love to see you again. And then he kisses her on the cheek. What do you make of the cheek kiss? I make more of the leaving than the cheek kiss. Okay, why? The Cheat Kiss in combination with the leaving tells me that he is not as enthusiastic about Uma as she is about him. He could take it or leave it. Yeah.

Uma is like, you know what, would I want to stand outside someone else's apartment for God knows how long? No. That's fair to me. Yeah, but if they were really into each other, they would be maybe cuddling, holding hands. Yes. So she's like, I understand why he would leave, but also my feelings are a little hurt. Yeah. Right? But she's outside, she can't go back in her apartment, she's awake. And also all

of her neighbors are also outside because there's a fire alarm drill. The firemen show up and the firemen are hot. Uma's like, you know what? Great. Now there's hot firemen here. Whatever. And the firemen are very busy. And so there's lots to watch.

It's very entertaining. Has this ever happened to you? Have you ever had to go outside for a nighttime fire drill? All the time. Yeah, I feel like it happened all the time in college. What do you mean all the time? Did did live in the dorms in college? Yes. Yeah. I mean, I feel like we were always out there. Actually,

side story. Yeah. Didn't the fire alarms go off every time someone ran a hot shower? I feel like it was very common. I remember distinctly being outside in the middle of the night in college a couple of times. I do remember a couple of times being outside, but I wouldn't say it was very common. Also, one of my most embarrassing stories is from when, so, pre-Vox when I was in my lawyer days and I worked at- TBC to when you were a girl boss. Yeah.

I worked at a big firm downtown DC in a big building and I worked for this one partner who sort of was the bane of my existence, you know, he was always giving me more and more assignments. And often, I didn't totally know what he was talking about. He didn't explain them well. Great. And just really, really stressed me out. So I was on my way to lunch one day and I saw him coming. And I knew that if I kept on the path I was on, we were going to end up in the elevator together. And I knew that if that happened, he would give me an assignment in the elevator. And I wouldn't have time to write it down. And then you would be lost.

Lead to chaos. So I made a last minute decision just to take a quick turn and go down a stairwell instead without noticing that was the stairwell that was an emergency exit. So the fire alarms went off in the whole 14th floor building and Kelsey, the fire trucks came. I just kept going. I went to Caribou Coffee.

You were like, goodbye. Goodbye to the mess I created. And I just heard, I said, oh my god, I hear fire engines and this is because of me. Oh my god. So they came to the law firm, everyone had to go outside. And I just stayed. I think I went to Caribou Coffee and then I went to like a sandwich place and I said, let me just wait this out. Uh huh. Finally after it was all over, I walked back inside, like went to my desk with my sandwich

and I thought I'd gotten away with it and a fireman came to my door. He was like, I understand you pulled the alarm. And I had to tell him it was a mistake. Anyway. And you were like, did I do that? Yeah. I was trying to escape a partner, if that means anything to you. Okay. So they're outside, nighttime fire drill. She has not hidden away at a sandwich spot. She's like, yabbing to everyone. And she's like, also feeling a lot of like, feelings about having lost this fedora guy

and him like not saying goodbye to Brie Lee and not hanging out, whatever. This is like a big apartment complex. There are like a couple of buildings, they're right next to each other. They have like very poor markings. Like Uma is always joking that if an Uber dropped her off here for a booty call, she would be like, no, take me home. Like I'm never going to find the apartment I'm trying to get to. So she's like out there for hours and she's kind of like, yeah, of

course we are. These buildings are ours. Yes, for hours. They didn't go anywhere. They just stayed on the street. Okay. They're just out there on the street, gapping. It's like the weather is nice and also it's like all your neighbors are there. And when you live in a big building, you know, there's like kind of a camaraderie of like drama that's always going on. Right. So they're like, are you still having mail issues? Does the landlord ever email you back? They're comparing notes. What everyone is really gabbing about though is the fact that there are supposed to be three laundry rooms in this apartment complex and two of them have been out of commission

for months, which means that there's only one laundry room and it's not in Uma's building and the laundry is heavy and you have to carry it like this whole long way. Right? Miserable. So everyone has a shared beef, which means that this is like a fun time. The firefighters are doing their shit and everyone's like, we hate our landlord. Right? They're doing this when her best friend in the complex, we're going to call her Tatiana,

shows up and Tatiana is like, oh my God, is book talk guy here? And Uma is like, okay, about that. We're calling him fedora guy now. And Tatiana is like, he wore a fedora to the date. And Uma is like, no, no, no, no. So she like explains all of this to Tatiana and Tatiana is like, well, is he here? And Uma is like, no, he like left. And Tatiana is like, well, what did you have a good time?

And Uma's like, no, the fire alarm like ruined my life. Tatiana's like, I'm so sorry. She's like, that sucks. Like I know you were excited to meet him. And then she's like, do you have any idea like what's going on here? Like are we ever going to get to go back into our apartments? Like she's like, I have an early meeting. Exactly.

She's like, what are we doing here? So you're Uma. You want to know what's going on. How do you find out what's going on? Well, given what I know about Uma, she seems like she's a little bit on the prowl. And you mentioned she thought the firefighters are really attractive. Yes. I feel like she's ovulating.

I think she's just, I'm getting that energy from her. You've got to be careful. She really wants to connect with a man. So putting myself in Uma's shoes, I probably go fluff my hair a little bit, put on a little lip gloss and go over to one of the firefighters and just say, hey, I'd love to know. Could you give me any details on what's happening here? And she'll either find out the facts or she'll form another connection that could replace Fedora guy. Yes, this is entirely Uma's move. She's like, here I go over to the

firefighters, like good posture, make yourself look cute, make your voice higher, right? Like all the works. So she goes over there, they have directed her to the one like lady firefighter. Okay. So she's like, hello, ma hello ma'am, I'm so sorry to bother you, but what is happening here? And the lady firefighter is like, oh man, it's really bad actually. Two apartments are basically gutted. And Uma is like, oh my God, that's awful. Do you know why? And the lady firefighter is like, yeah, we think it's a water heater problem, but we won't know for sure for a couple of weeks. And Uma is like, yeah, it's like we think it's a water heater problem, but we like won't know for sure for a couple of weeks. And Uma's like, is everybody okay?

And the firefighter's like, yeah, yeah, everyone's fine. Like you don't need to worry about that. And Uma's like, cool, great. Also, how long do you think this is going to take? Like we would like to go back to our apartments. And the lady firefighter is like, we're actually like, you should be back in the next 15 minutes. And she's like, great. And I would also be wondering if you have this landlord who's not great and not keeping

up with the laundry rooms and not keeping up with some of the water heaters. I would be wondering is my water heater next? Yes. What do you do? Like you finally get the all clear to go back to your apartment. What is your move here? Putting myself again in Uma's shoes. I call, I text Fedora guy and say, I text him and say, finally got let back into the apartment, but apparently there's some mysterious water

heater issue that caused two apartments to totally burn down. I have no idea what the status of my water heater is. I don't trust that my landlord has kept up with it. I don't want to be next. Could I come to your house for safety?" This is called having game. What you're doing, that is game. That is very good work. This is not what Uma does. Uma goes to her own bed and she Googles water heater fire. She's reading all of these articles. She writes an email to her landlord and she's like, please fix this. And then she falls asleep.

Okay. Because it's late. She's probably really tired. Yeah. And she's like, I've had a bad evening, like double loss. People lost their apartments in this terrible fire. And also I lost my hookup with Fedora guy, which is also hard. How do you get this guy to go out with you again?

I mean, I think the best idea would be to kind of sit back and wait because she's already gotten two negative vibes from him. One was the first moment where she felt like he was distracted, maybe not that into her. Yeah. The second was when he decided he couldn't stand outside for more than five minutes and just would would pass on the hookup altogether. So me myself, I wouldn't chase him down. pass on the hookup altogether. So me myself, I wouldn't chase him down. Yes. Uma decides, text Tatiana. She's like, Tatiana, what do I do? Do we think that this is a negative vibe? Do we think it's okay? And Tatiana is like, why are you texting me? Just text him. She's like, if you want to see him again, that's enough reason to text him. And she's like, okay, help me craft my again, that's enough reason to text him.

And she's like, okay, help me craft my text. And so 20 minutes later, she texts Fedora guy and she's like, don't worry, I survived the fire, can't wait to see you again, happy face. And he responds, whew. But he doesn't, like, there's no happy face, there's no follow up, there's no question. Oh, wow. How long do you wait to text him again? Eternity. No, she

can't do it again. She has to have some self respect. Uma is like, I'm not texting this guy back, right? She's like, I'm not texting him back. He can text me. I'll wait. Okay. She waits a week and then she's like, you know, these are good rules if you're trying to date someone, right? Like if you're trying to date someone and decide if they're the one for you, these are reasonable rules. Like he's a bad texter and doesn't care if I've died in a fire. Like I shouldn't want to date him. And Uma's like, but I still do want to bang him. So like I'm going to text him again. Okay. She just wants to get him back into her physical space where he has to duck to get through

the doorway. Yes, exactly. So she's like, I will ignore the several orange flags that have been raised. And she texts this man rain check question mark. She's putting her pride aside completely. Yes. And he's like, absolutely win. And she's like, oh, okay, maybe he's just a bad texter. She's like tonight. And he's like, totally. And she's like, great, okay, maybe he's just a bad texter. She's like, tonight? And he's like, totally. And she's like, great. My place? Like, no fire this time.

And he's like, absolutely yes. How are you feeling at this point? Concerned. I'm concerned. Okay, why? Yeah. I'm already worried for Uma that he's going to flake out on her because again, I have that data about his lack of initiative and interest, and I just

don't see it panning out for her. I'm worried about her getting her feelings hurt. I wish she would have gone after a firefighter, just gotten back on the apps and found someone else. But anyway. Yeah. She's laser focused though, right? Like horse blinders onto this fedora map. I'm going to go ahead and get started. She takes her everything shower again. She cleans her apartment. She lights a candle. She puts her mood lights on. She opens the door to the balcony in her bedroom.

She's like, it's so nice. She's set a scene. She's set a scene. Fedora guy shows up at like 9pm. Does he have a family at home? Why is everything so late? That's a great question. Okay. He texts her and he's like, I'm so sorry, but I cannot figure out how to get to your apartment. Like, can you meet me downstairs to help me? And she's like, yeah, of course. So she goes downstairs and gets him. She brings him upstairs. He's like, it looks so nice in here. Like, did you clean? And she's like, I did. Thank you

for noticing. She didn't clean the first time when she knew you were coming in. She's like, do you want some wine? And he's like, oh, do you actually have any weed? Like, I'd rather have weed if you have any. And she's like, oh yeah, totally. I have these new edibles that Tatiana gave me. She says that they're great. We can use those. And he's like, great. So they take their little edibles, feeling good, feeling nothing yet. She's like, this is so fun.

He's here. They're sitting on the couch. He's touching the couch. And he's like, this couch is so uncomfortable. And in her head, she's like, this is a very nice couch that I spent several paychecks on. But she's like, yeah, it is uncomfortable. You're right. We should go lie down. Yeah. So they move into her room and they're like, you know, getting ready, you know, things are moving. And he's like, do you have like music or something? Like he's like, I can't like,

the silence is going to make me feel weird. It's another to me, it's another piece of evidence he's not into her. The evidence is just stacking up, you know? I mean, I get that music is nice, but she's already set this great scene and you're about to stop everything so you can put on a soundtrack because you aren't feeling right just based on her being there. She's like, totally. Here's a Bluetooth speaker. Put on whatever you want.

I'm going to go to the bathroom really quick. Okay. Right? Because she's like, this is not like, we need a little reset. Yeah. So she goes to the bathroom, she gets in there and she's looking in the mirror. And you know when you look in the mirror and you have just, like your edible is just starting to kick in and you're like, why are my eyes so small?

I haven't had that experience and I can imagine how weird it would feel. She's like, why are my eyes so small? Why are they red? And then she's like, oh my God, ha ha ha. I forgot that I took this edible and I'm becoming high. She goes back out. He has put on like deep house music. Like it's giving like desert sound bath playlist. So she's like, he is no longer

Fedora man to me, he is now sound bath man to me. She's like, whatever. It doesn't matter to me what's playing. I think this guy is hot. This is fine. She's so determined. She's so determined. She gets in the bed and she's rapidly becoming too high. She's like, I'm so heavy. My body is made of sand. She's like, all my limbs are so big. And then she's like, he's so heavy. He's made of sand. Will I die? Her thoughts are floating away from her. I'm sure the music is just intensifying all of it too. Yes. And she's like, push it down. This is what I want. I want to do this. I'm pushing it too. Yes. And she's like, push it down, right? Like, this is what I want. I want to do this.

Like, I'm pushing it down. She's like looking at all of the hair on this man's head. He has so much hair. And she's like, his hairs are so beautiful. Like I would like to keep one for myself. She's like, it's like when that guy in Lord of the Rings asked the beautiful elf for one of her hairs. And so she's like, you know, like very mesmerized by his hair.

And he's like, what are you doing? And she's like, you know, like very mesmerized by his hair. And he's like, what are you doing? And she's like, your hair is so beautiful. Like, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm rather high, but like, can I have some? And he's like, what? And as he says, what she's like, what is that? She swears that she can hear softly a fire alarm. No. And she's like, no, no, I'm high. I'm making it up. She's like, this must be part of the sound bath. You know, like when you're driving and like some song

like man down by Rihanna is playing and you're like, are the police following me? I'm such a nervous driver. If there's anything resembling a horn of ambulance, I'm panicking. Right. So she's like, I'm just being nervous. Like last time we got interrupted by a fire alarm, it was just this. And then he's laughing, like good spiritedly. And he's like, is that a fucking fire alarm? And she's like, I think it's your music. But did they smell anything? If they don't smell anything, I would say just choose to ignore it at this point. She's worked so hard to get to this point. They do not smell anything. But now it's like, again, this moment has been interrupted.

She doesn't believe in signs when something is not meant to be. She does not. She does not. She's like, I'm pretty sure it's the music. And she's very high. So she sits up straight in the middle of the bed and she's trying to separate the sounds. She's like, shh, shh, shh. She's tracing every single trying to separate the sounds. She's like, she's like tracing every single sound to its origin point. Right. She's like, there's a triangle noisemaker sound. Like that's a bass. That's him. Didn't occur to anyone to turn off the music and listen. He is like, let me turn off the music and we can listen. So he turns it off and they can sure enough like hear a fire alarm. Okay And Uma's like, you know, this happens, like fire alarms go off in apartment complexes

all the time. Like it's probably someone cooking because the fire alarms are really sensitive. Like let's not worry about it. This is what I tried to tell you. It happens all the time. No, what you said is going outside to stand in the middle of the night happens all the time. She's like, somebody's probably cooking.

She's like, I'm just going to close the doors to the balcony because that will muffle this sound. It's coming from somewhere outside. So she's like, whatever. So she goes, she closes it. And he's like, what was it that happened last time? Was there an actual fire? And she's like, oh yeah, there happened last time? Was there an actual fire? And she's like, oh yeah, there was an actual fire, like two apartments basically, I got

it. And he's like, what? At this point, she's risking her life. Yes. And he's like, why did the fire start? Do you know? And she's like, yeah, there was a water heater, I guess, that overheated. And I don't know.

And he's like, well, did they fix that? And she's like, I don't know. Honestly, I have no idea. So now he's like concerned, right? He's like, hmm, I'm not so sure that I personally wish to risk my life for this hookup. And then he's like, wait a second. And he puts his like giant head against the wall behind the bed. And he's like, I'm pretty sure that that's your neighbor's fire alarm. And don't forget, last time it took out two apartments, so it could be the neighbors and hers. Yes. But she's like so loosey goosey at this point that she's like, I don't understand.

She's like, there's a fire inside the wall. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. Your neighbor's fire alarm is going off. And so she puts her ear up against the wall and sure enough, it's like clearly coming from the other side of the wall. And he's like, do you think your neighbor's in there? And she's like, she's like, I don't know. Like usually he works nights. So like, I don't, but I don't know him at all. He could be there. And she's also like, it's been like, now it's been a little bit of time that this alarm has been going off, right? Like if you're cooking and the alarm is going off, it's going off for like 30 seconds before you hit it, right? What do you do at this point? If I'm Uma and my

limbs are really, really heavy and I care about my own life, yes, I would probably be like, I care about my own life. Yes. I would probably be like, let's just give it 10 minutes and see if we smell smoke. If we smell smoke, we'll know something is going on. And if it's really next door, we would smell the smoke. So put your sound bath back on and just try to relax for a minute. Uma's like, she gets out of the bed, she puts on the pajama pants closest to her, which are yellow ones with the drawstring and a cropped t-shirt. She's like, you can wait in the bed. I'm just going to poke my head out on the balcony and see what's going on.

This guy is like, I'm not waiting in the bed if there's a fire. She's like, that's a really good point, whatever. She goes out on the balcony and she can see like from the balcony into her neighbor's kitchen and there is smoke in there. What now? You got to evacuate. I mean, grab your valuables, get your passport, photo albums. At this point, I know Uma, like I understand where your head is, but you've got to let

this one go. It wasn't meant to be with book talk guy. Get your valuables and go outside. She's like, there's smoke in there. I'm going to call 911. And he's like, I think that's for the best. So she's on the phone with 911 and she's like, here's all the info. Here's what's going on.

Here's where we are. While she's on the phone, the date is signaling that he's leaving. And she's like, don't leave, stay. But she can't talk to him. She's talking to the like emergency response people. And she's like, I don't know. I think it's like stairwell three, like da da da da da. By the time she's off the phone, he's gone. Okay. I'm not surprised in the least. Why?

Because he's been trying to get away from her this whole time. She's like, this is so sad. She hears like that sad sound of the Bluetooth speaker like disconnecting from his phone. And she's like, this is terrible. But she's also like, this is so sad. She hears that sad sound of the Bluetooth speaker disconnecting from his phone. And she's like, this is terrible. But she's also like, you know what? I've done the right thing here. The right thing was to call 911 on this fire and over getting to sleep with this guy, right? Now the alarm in her apartment is going off.

So she's like, okay, it is time to go. So she puts on her slippers or Crocs or to go. So she like puts on, you know, like her slippers or Crocs or whatever. And she like puts her valuables in a bag and she goes downstairs. Something about Uma is that she has like a big thigh tattoo. Okay. Which would theoretically not be relevant, except that she's wearing pajama pants. And as she's going down the stairs, she realizes that she can like see the entire tattoo. Through her yellow thin pajama pants. Okay.

These are Forever 21 pajama pants that she's had for 21 years. They're in horrible condition and they're threadbare. So she's like, my entire pants are see-through and I am now going downstairs where all the hot firemen will be and also all of my neighbors. Do you go back to your apartment and change? No, because we're talking about life here. We're talking about survival. Go outside and sit down somewhere so no one can see your butt. You'll be fine. Smart. She's like, one, fire. I cannot go back in there. Two, she's like, the apartment

complex is complicated and I want to help the fire department find this apartment so that my apartment doesn't go up in flames. She gets down to the parking lot in her see-through pants and one of her, people are like in motion, right? Because now we've had one fire that turned out to be bad. So like one of her neighbors is like hopping over a fence to let the fire trucks in. There are like so many of them. And suddenly she's like entering the next phase of high and she's like, what did I say on the phone?

Where am I? Oh no. What do you do at this point? It almost seems like she needs a big glass of water and some coffee. But if I'm in her state of mind, I probably call my friend who lives in the building for some help. Tantyama. Yeah. Uma is like, I don't have time for that because I promised on the phone with the emergency

responders that I would help the firemen find this apartment. Right? So she sees in the parking lot, the firefighter lady from before and she's like, hello again. The firefighter lady is like, hello. And Uma's like, I'm the one that called it in. And the firefighter lady is like, thank you so much for like your good citizenship. Like it's important to call in fires. And she's like, thank you.

But I can take you there. Like I can take you to the apartment where it is. And the firefighter lady is like, perfect. Let's do that. Good idea. You lead the way. So she's like leading all these firefighters up four flights of stairs.

And as she's going up the stairs, she's like, my pants are see-through. Uh-huh. Like they're all of these firefighters following me up the stairs with my see-through butt. But you know what? Don't you always think in situations like that, they've seen it all. I always tell myself and they're not judging you. And you know it's not true because they will talk

about you in our group chat, but it's just a comforting thought that they've been in a lot of wild situations. They've seen a butt before. They're always going places in the middle of the night. They've seen pajamas. It's fine. She's like, I would be embarrassed if I were not driven by purpose. Right? She's like, I have meaning to my life. I am important. This is my job. I am like a good citizen. She's like, who cares if every firefighter in this busy, busy town sees my entire ass? Like, that's fine. She gets them up there and she's like, this is my apartment. And the firefighters are like, okay. And she's like, oh, right.

Sorry about that. This is the apartment where the fire is. And there's like smoke coming from under the door. And they're like, who lives here? They have to know that before they go put the fire out? They're just, well, people are working while people are asking her questions. Don't worry. People are doing things.

But one guy is like, who lives here? And she's like, I don't know, some guy. And they're like, what guy? And she's like, I don't know. He's like 5'10. He wears glasses. He has an arm tattoo. He has annoying music taste.

That's all I know about him. And they're like, no, we met like, do you know him? Can you call him? And she's like, oh, no, I don't know him. And they're like, does anyone else live here, like kids or pets? And she's like, I don't think so. And they're like, okay, then we're gonna, we're gonna like go quickly, like please stand back. At this point, another firefighter, not the lady comes over to her and is like, thank you so much for calling and shakes her hand. And she's like, I have

helped. Like I'm basically a firefighter. Right. She's like, is this what patriotism feels like? Like I've never felt it before. She's like, this is so nice. Yeah. She's like, should I sing God bless America? And then she's like, no, no, no, you don't sing at work. I need to be focused. Also the firefighters are starting to do things, right? Like they are working to get into the store. And so she's like, do I need to leave to one of the firefighters? And the firefighter is like, no, you can stay, just like stay back. And she's like, I knew need to leave to one of the firefighters? And the firefighter is like, no, you can stay. Just like, stay back. And she's like, I knew it.

I knew I was a firefighter now. So she stays. And this is like a gossip stream, right? Because you get to watch them do whatever it is they want to do. You don't have to hear it third hand. So she watches them like cut a hole in the door and then stick their hand through and like open the door from the inside.

That's how they do it. I never knew. Honestly, genius. I assumed there was a big ax. I thought it was a ramrod. I thought you just knocked the door down. Like in Beauty and the Beast, they have a log. They open the door pretty quickly. Uma's like, this is incredible. I love my profession. I love art. The whole time she could be right next door in her apartment putting on some non-transparent pants. The whole time, but she is not. The whole time they're doing this, she's like, this

is so great. I love it. They open the door and the minute the door is open, a dog comes running out and she's like, oh shit, he did have a dog. Like I totally forgot about that. But she's also like, this dog has no collar. And also she's like, I'm high, so I'm doggy. She's like, I love the dog. And she's like, I want to get the dog and I want to make sure the dog is okay. She's like, I know I have a leash in my car because she walks dogs sometimes. And she's like, but I'm at work.

I'm a firefighter now. Who is my boss? Can I go after the dog?" And she's so confused. So she finds a lady firefighter and she's like, can I go to my car? And the lady firefighter is like, yes. She's like, okay, great. So she runs down the stairs and across the parking lot through all the neighbors and

the firefighters in her see-through pants. And she gets the leash from her car. And apparently this dog has followed her because a lot of dogs like it when someone is running. So they're like, fun. So he ran with her and she's like, perfect. The dog is here. So she puts the little collar and the leash on him and she's like, cute dog, little Collie mix. I love my new dog. So she's standing there with the dog who is sitting just like watching now. And she's like, the dog's eyes are so beautiful. Like what does the dog know? Is the dog a spirit?

She's like, I'm a firefighter and I'm uniquely connected to animals. And then she's like, what am I, if not also an animal, right? She like puts her face on the dog's face. At this point, she sees Tatiana. Okay. Tatiana comes running up to her and Tatiana is like, where the fuck did you get a dog? And Uma's like, no, no, no, no, it's not my dog. I saved the dog. And her friend is like, what? Is this Fedora guy's dog? Weren't

you supposed to see him tonight? And she's like, oh, I'm not calling him Fedora guy anymore. I'm calling him sound bath guy now. And she's like, why? And Uma's like, because he put on fucking desert soundbath music for us to bang. And Tatiana's like, so you did bang? And Uma's like, no. Tatiana's like, again? You let him get away? And Uma's like, I guess so. At this point, I'm like, he's just going to be away, I guess. And Tatiana's like, I guess so. Like at this point, I'm like, he's just gonna be away, I guess. And Tatiana's like, well, don't lose the dog since you're like in a habit of losing things down. Wow.

Uma's like, haha, oh, got me. Now Uma's looking at her friend and she's like, I love you, Tatiana, because she's like woozy. She's like, I love being your friend. She's like putting her hand on Tatiana's face. And Tatiana is like, are you high? And Uma's like, I am more high than the clouds in the sky. And Tatiana is like, Jesus Christ. And Uma's like, I took those edibles you gave me. I feel great. And Tatiana is like, why are you taking a giant edible before you like bang, whatever? Like, I can't deal with this right

now. And now Uma in her high brain remembers, she's like, wait, wait, wait, I'm a firefighter. I'm supposed to be with the firefighters. Yeah. She was on her 15 minute break. She wasn't off duty. Yeah. She's like, shit, I just, I asked for permission to go to my car, but I'm supposed to be up there. She's like, I have to go. I am needed. And Tatiana's like, what? And Uma's like, I must firefight. And Tatiana's like, I don't think, what are you talking about? So she goes running up the stairs with the dog. Uma is reaching a new stage of her high. She is like ascending. The heavens are opening. She watches as her brethren enter, but she is

like not ready yet. She's such a new fireman slash angel. In go her friends. They go one by one. They're yelling out. They're like, no one is home. No one is hurt. Uma is like, peace has prevailed. And her apartment's okay.

And her apartment is fine. Thank God. She's like, finally I can enter. She's like, this is my apartment because the floor plans are identical. And so she's like, things have changed here. Like this table was not here before. The kitchen is in the same spot. The living room is in the same spot.

Like I exist in the past and the present at the same time. Right? Like she's on one. Okay. On the stove, a pot is smoking. Her colleague, the fireman removes it and takes it off the burner. And she's like, what was it? And the fireman is like, it looks like mac and cheese. And Uma's like, I'm so hungry. She's like, do you think I could eat that? And the fireman

is like, I don't think so. No, it's like very burnt. And he shows it to her and it's like black. And she's like, oh, she opens a cabinet. She's like, oh, pop tarts. She takes out a pop tart. She begins to eat it a little for her, a little for the dog. She's like, I love it here. Like my friends are here. The tiles are greeting me as I pass.

Like she begins to examine her new home and she's like, the photos are so strange. Like there's a man in these. Who is he? She sits on the couch and she's like, this photos are so strange. Like there's a man in these, who is he? She sits on the couch and she's like, this couch is so comfortable. And then she's like, maybe the sound bath man was right. And then she's like, wait a second, the sound bath man, the couch, my couch,

this is not my apartment, right? She's like this. She's like, this is my neighbor's apartment. She's like, oh my God, what if sound Batman and I were very loud and that's why he left with the macaroni cheese on the stove? What if he's in love with me and he was jealous and he had to rush out? It's one theory. She's finding clues.

She's like, it all makes sense. There's an Alison Roman cookbook. I have an Alison Roman cookbook. Our apartments are the same color. That's the color they were both painting. She's like, we both have rugs. We both love this dog. Twin flames.

Yes. Twin flame. Finally, she's met her twin flame. She is jarred out of this fantasy by the fireman being like, we are leaving. Will you be okay with the dog? Everything is clear here. And Uma is like, yes, I will continue our mission. And they're like, okay, what? They're like, will you tell him what happened? And she's like,

yes. And then they look at each other and they write a note. And the note is basically like, we have come into your apartment because something was on fire. We had to break your door. Like, please tell your landlord and he will fix it. Uma can't read this. She holds the note in her hand. The letters are like moving around. She's like, I can't read. I'll never know what this says. When suddenly she looks up and that man is there from the photos and she's like, he's alive and he's carrying such a large bag. And she's like, you're alive. And she goes to him and she hugs him. He does not hug her back. She's like, the vibe in here is shifting. Like, this is not heaven.

It's now hell. He doesn't want me here. We aren't twin flames. The dog's probably over her too now that it's real in her. The dog is over her too. He's leaving. An angel is talking to her and the angel is like, you, we have to leave. The angel shepherds her out.

Like, it's time to go. And Uma's like, angels know so many things. She's like, goodbye heaven, goodbye man. And off she goes, next door to go to sleep. Okay. We are almost at the end. What do you think? Whose side are you on? Give me it all. Uma, I'm worried about her. I'm worried about our girl. I think she's prone to wake up sobered up and still try to pursue Fedora Soundbathman. I actually think she might try to sink her teeth into the neighbor now, now that she's had this moment with him, but his first impression of her probably wasn't fantastic.

I'm still trying to figure out if her neighbor friend, Tatiana, plays a role in this whole story at all. I'm a little bit suspicious. I don't like the way Tatiana talked to her about sort of mocking the fact that she lost the guy and the dog. That's a red flag to me. I don't know. I'm curious to see how Uma feels when she wakes up and if she decides to just kind of turn over a new leaf and maybe pursue someone new or whether she's going to keep on this path. In the morning, she wakes up and she's like, I feel so tired. And she's like, that was so strange. But she's like sober again. And she's like, huh. And she texts Tatiana and she's like, last night was so weird. Like I had a dream that I went into that guy's

apartment with the firefighters and an angel guided me out. Is that how being really high normally works? I don't know. I don't think so. Tatiana is like, you're such a dumbass. Like that was not a dream. I was with you.

I went with you because you demanded to go into the apartment because you were like, I'm one of the firemen now. And you ate his pop tarts. You ransacked this man's apartment. And Uma is like, no. And Tatiana is like, this poor guy, he showed up and you were just eating his pop tarts. And I had to be like, we're leaving. I'm so sorry about my friend who's also your next door neighbor. And Uma is like, I was just so happy that he was alive. And Tatiana was like, no one ever thought he was dead. In what world was he going to be dead when he was far from the burning apartment in the mac and cheese in the danger?

And Uma's like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. That all makes so much sense. She's like, do you know what happened to him? And Tatiana's like, yeah, he went to get his stuff to move it from the washer to the dryer in the one laundry room that exists, which is far from their apartment, and someone had left their stuff in the dryer. So he waited 15 minutes for them to come move it, and they didn't come, so he gave them five more minutes, and then he removed it and put his stuff in and forgot his mac and cheese on the stove.

And all of this took place in a 30-minute time period. Okay, he should have just moved it right away. Wait, say more. I mean, they're in this apartment building with really, really limited washes and dryers. I think everyone would understand if the dryer has stopped, it's fair game to just move it at that point. We got to keep this whole thing moving. You can't be sitting around waiting for 15 minutes for the one dryer. Yeah, but he's like, I didn't. He was trying to be nice or whatever. He comes back, this

poor guy, right? He comes back and he forgot his mac and cheese on the stove. The firefighters have broken his door. Uma has touched all of his shit and fed his dog pop tarts. And Uma is like, oh my God, this is so embarrassing. I had to live with this man. This is so bad. And Tatiana's like, you were on one, but like, it was funny. Like, everyone could tell that you were just like, extremely high. That makes it worse. Everyone could tell. She's like, this is awful. But she's also like, this is extremely funny. So Tatiana and Uma are like laughing and laughing and laughing when her phone buzzes.

And she looks at her phone and she has a text from the sound bath guy. And he's like, I'm so sorry I didn't hang out. I was really freaked out by the fact that the other apartments caught on fire and you were like so calm about it. He's like, did you survive this fire? Happy face. Do you text him back? If I'm, of course. She probably invited him right over. She's like, I did survive. Thank you so much for asking. And he's like, well, do you want to like see each other again?

And she's like, I would love that. Okay. Do you want to come over tonight? Oh my God. No, I'm not coming to your apartment. He's like, can you come to my house? And she's like, yes. So the final update I have for you is that she did go to his house? I'm not coming to your apartment. He's like, can you come to my house? And she's like, yes. So the final update I have for you is that she did go to his house and they did finally

bang. Okay. Happy ending for her. Literally. But he didn't have a bed frame. So after that, he's become known as floor mattress man. And wait, do you know, was it just that one time? Was she satisfied?

I think it was just that one time. I think it was like she got what she came for, you know? And do we know, did she ever connect with her neighbor at all? She did connect with her neighbor. He like made fun of her and was like, you were like, like lightheartedly, like you were so high. And she was like, I brought you,

like she brought him new Pop Tarts to be like, I'm sorry. That's really sweet. I think this whole story is about a meet cute with the neighbor. I think so too. I would like an update. We haven't gotten think so too. I would like an update. We haven't gotten an update yet. I would love an update.

Do you have any final takeaways or morals from this story? Even though I obviously was judging Uma throughout, she made a lot of choices that I didn't think were the best. I think it all goes to show that she followed her heart. She did exactly what she wanted to do in each moment, right? And actually, at the end of the day, she got the outcome that she wanted on date one with Fedora. She did! So I really can't, I mean, I stand corrected. Yeah, I stand corrected. I think she was true

to herself. She was authentic. And in whatever weird way it worked out for her. It seemed like it turned out okay. Yeah, she made a new connection with her neighbor. I still have my eye on Tatiana. I don't know, I think she's a little bit of a shady friend. But overall, yeah, I think I learned a little something from this story. And I'm happy for Uma. Wow, Janaye, thank you so much for coming on the show.

It was a delight to have you. Thank you for having me. This was so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you. Thank you for having me. This was so much fun. This podcast is produced by Alex Sujong-Loughlin and Ozzy Linus Goodman. Justin Ellis is Defectors Project's editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Tom Lay is our editor in chief. Jay Tolvera is our associate producer. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you

to Jasper Wang, Catherine Xu, Patrick Redford, Israel Deramola, Ray Rado, Chris Thompson, David Roth, Dave McKenna, and Luis Páez Pumar for your help on this season. And thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company, and Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and please remember, you did not hear this from me.