Normal Gossip - S1 Ep6: Nemesis by Proxy, with Delia Cai

Episode Date: February 9, 2022

Senior Vanity Fair correspondent Delia Cai joins us to break down some real John Tucker Must Die shit. Follow Delia on Twitter @delia_cai. Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs). Subscribe to Defector Media and get your first month for 99 cents at defector.com/normalgossip.  

Hey, quick favor. We are conducting an audience survey. We'd be really grateful if you could take just a few minutes and answer it. Please visit survey.prx.org slash gossip to take the survey today. That's survey.prx.org slash gossip. Thank you. This is like the Cuomos, where they're like, I will defend my brother, like bros before hoes, and also like all like moral code. Hi, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. In each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Today, I have with me Delia Kai, who has like 100 jobs. She's a senior correspondent at Vanity Fair. She runs a newsletter called Deez Links, and she has a novel called Central Places coming out in the fall of 2022.

Hello, Delia. Welcome. Hi, Kelsey. Thank you for having me. Thanks so much for being on. How are you feeling? What's going on in your day? I'm good. I'm good. I'm on book leave, so I've kind of just been at home living in my fantasy world inside my head, which is like half the time it's really fun. And I feel like a little kid, you know, in my parents' computer room. And half the time I feel crazy, like the woman in the yellow wallpaper. I'm like, what is real? You know, I've like lost all grasp of reality. You're just touching some weird divot on your wall, like, hmm, where could this have come from? I like, I have this like shag rug, and I was like laying down on it as like a quote, quote, break. And I was like, this

is nice. This is nice. You know, writing a novel is kind of a, it's an artistic pursuit in some ways. But when you like really think about it, it's like, oh, I just sat in my room for like eight hours and made up a bunch of people and then made them like miserable. It makes me sound like a crazy person. Yeah, it's like an intense like puzzle game and like maybe a form of like illness. Yes, help us. Who can cure us? Well, luckily you've been alone and bored and we are here to do some gossiping. Yes, I cannot wait. Let's just start off. Let's talk about gossip a little bit. Do you consider yourself a gossip? Oh, definitely. I think that's probably why I wanted to go into media in the first place, was just like total inability to keep anything to myself. What do

you mean? Like, you can't keep a secret? I mean, like I can, but you would have to like really explicitly tell me like, please don't tell anyone and I mean it. Like, don't tell your best friend. Like, don't tell like your brother when you're home over Thanksgiving, because like, I'm kind of a very permeable person where I'm just like, like, what do you want to know? I'll tell you anything about like myself. I sort of assume like wrongly that most people are like that. And so what ends up happening is that I just sort of run my mouth a lot. I just get a thrill out of relaying information, you know, like I understand like the ancient like guy who ran the marathon because he's like, oh my god, I have to like tell somebody that he runs the 30 miles or whatever. That's you running the

Brooklyn half just to tell someone about someone's like one night stand. That's absolutely what I think I look like when I'm like texting a friend that's like OMG, guess what? And then I'm just waiting for her to like, okay, to text me back and be like, okay, you have my attention. Like, I'm waiting for the dots, you know. How did you grow up? Like, what was your relationship with Gossip as a kid? Did you have any awareness of it? I mean, probably I feel like I feel like everyone who's Gossip is like, oh, I was a pretty quiet kid and you sort of just like spend a lot of time sitting back and watching other kids like like, like socialize, I guess. And I think it's you sort of end up making your own little observations to yourself first and then and then

like, I don't know, like, like, especially on the playground, right? Like Gossip is so it's very much like this form of currency. And so I think like the kids who like learn how to like use it properly maybe like become popular and then they become like politicians and then everyone else is like, I'm gonna be a writer. Do you feel like you were doing the gossiping but don't know how to like use it to manipulate others? Is that? I mean, probably because I was like terrified, right? Because I think that like, it was never like, oh, that's really interesting. Like I should confront someone. It was more so like, oh no, like I would never confront somebody about like, oh, I heard you did this. That was too aggressive. I think I was always like, that's information for

me and my friends to know, but we're not going to act on it or anything. I feel like I have a bunch of people that I don't know who's like names I barely even know, but who like my friends have massive grudges against that I've just like adopted wholesale because I'm like, oh yes, I've heard enough gossip here to have made a ruling and my ruling is that this stranger I've never met is bad. Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely have the same thing. It's like like a like nemesis by proxy only because you've heard like like one really indelible story that you're like, that's that's that person to me always, which is scary because that you know, if you think about like, what is indelible story? Yeah, someone knows about me for like one one like day or night of my life.

Terrifying. What else do you have any more feelings about gossip? Do you have any gossip to share with us? Got any drama? I think like with friends who are still like very much dating, like I'm very much dating, it's just like a wellspring of like insane stories about people that like, you know, you're never really going to see again. And so it's really like the gift that keeps on giving. So I feel like that that's like the richest source of gossip between like like me, me and my friends who are still like in the trenches. I have a friend of a friend who she's like, she's sort of like found like like this friend group of dudes who like live in her neighborhood, and she's just sort of like seen them all separately

around and has really like observed they have this like very strong friendship where they just sort of seem like they're always together. And eventually like over the course of like a couple of weeks or months, like ended up meeting or matching with each one like either in real life or like on an app and just sort of like dated them all, but like not totally like one after another, like there was definite overlap. And then like for various reasons, they all didn't work out. But then at the very end of the last one, she was like, it was like being visited by like the ghosts of Christmas past, like I got three chances and I blew them all. At the very end, she had said something like, so like, you know, you guys have like talked about how weird

this is, right? And oh, no, these like these guys all being like, like just like kind of clueless straight dudes were just like, I mean, not really. And then she immediate response was like, why not? Like, you know, and that's sort of meta here, because she's like, I would be gossiping about this, like I would be gossiping the shit out of this with my friends if we were dating the same person. I'm like high key offended. I'm like, how do you not talk about me? Like if you're each going to date me, I need to be a topic at dinner every day. Tell me I'm the name of the group chat, you know? Yes. She was just like, she was like, we're talking about and she's like, do guys just like not gossip? And I was like, no, they definitely do. I feel like that guy just lied. Because what

else? What else are they talking about? I mean, literally, what is a like sports trade rumor, if not gossip? I know, they're all doing it. It's everywhere, right? Like, yeah, yeah, that's interesting, though, that like, maybe it's just like a masculinity thing of like, I don't my feelings are hurt by the fact that like, she's now dating my roommate. And so I can't handle that. I guess so. Or I was just like, this was like, I was like, if the gender roles were reversed, A, I don't think this would happen. Because, you know, the girls would like have a little like meeting and like, things would be chosen, you know, on behalf of the guy, you know, it would not be his agency that like, you know, are you there would be like a fucking spreadsheet of like

his interests, like correlated with each roommate, and they would be like, cool. So we've decided that she's right one for you. Exactly. Exactly. There would be a decision made without his knowledge, whereas she was just like, I just assumed at some point, we're all going to like have a little chat, especially since we like lived in the same neighborhood. Nope. Nope. She's like, for a minute, you know, it felt like being kind of like on the bachelorette. But you know, half the fun of the bachelorette is like, you know, all the guys sit in the house, and then they talk about it, right? I'm like really upset, like I'm trying to find a way in which this makes sense to me for why they wouldn't have discussed it. Is it possible the fourth guy was just lying to her?

I think it's very possible. But I have, I mean, like I have a brother who's like 20 years old, like these guys are not 20. But I've had a chat with him where I've just like, you know, you talk to your friends about this stuff, right? Like just basic like, like life stuff. And he was like, no. And I was like, well, you know, what do you mean? Like when you see each other, aren't you guys like, hey, like, how's it going? And he's like, yeah, but we don't like, we don't mean it. You know, like we don't answer like, oh, you know, I'm actually like not doing so great. And I was like, what? So maybe, maybe this is just like straight dudes not talking about their lives to each other. We've talked about this a lot with like other guests about how there's like a really

strong use for gossip in marginalized groups, right? So the absolutely, you need to share information. And so I wonder if some of that is just getting lost on men where they don't have as much of a need to communicate information. But I'm like, aren't you curious? Don't you care? Even if you don't have the need, don't you want to know? I think that's definitely true. I mean, because the, I mean, the whole thing, the whole conversation around like me too, and like the spreadsheet of shitty media men, it was like, there was this whole conversation that was like, yeah, I mean, the spreadsheet is really interesting. But every woman in any industry has a little mental spreadsheet that she shares, because keeping track of like,

you know, who can behave and who mistreats people is super valuable, right? And I'm sure that sort of like, you know, like talking shit about like dudes you date is like hilarious, but also like sort of born out of safety, right? Because you're sort of sharing information of like, this person didn't quite act correctly. And in this context, it's funny. But there are a lot of other contexts where it's like, yeah, you know, I didn't feel safe or whatever. Right. And it's like, did he act in a way that was uncomfortable just because like you ended up in a weird situation? Or did you bail because it could be indicative of like something else, right? And I feel like a lot of the funny quote unquote funny stories that my friends and I tell

each other, there's like an under layer of danger where it's like, oh, like, haha, so good that you stopped dating him. I think it's always important to sort of be punching up. I think about this lot. I came, I mean, you know this, I came from like a really like Christian upbringing. And so I spent a lot of like high school stressing out because I was like, God says I'm not supposed to talk about people, but I really love it. I like, I think there's a difference between gossip and like just being really nasty about somebody who, you know, would just sort of like, it's like not warranted. It's not funny. It's just like really mean. It just sucked. Yeah. You can kind of feel that in your body, right? Like the difference in like some fun gossip and like when you're being

cruel or like intentionally trying to bring someone down. Yeah. Just a question I have for you, because this is something I've been thinking about a lot as I've, you know, processed the fact that I'm coming out with an entire podcast about gossip after spending, you know, years of my life praying that God would take away my will to gossip. When did you decide that you, that gossip was fine? Like at what point in your life where you like, you know, no, this is an aspect of my identity that I feel good about and that I like and that like I'm not going to try to quash anymore? I think it was probably like relatively recently in terms of like in my life. I think it was probably once like I ended up becoming very like forming friendships that were like very solid and

healthy. Because I think, you know, especially like like in your early 20s or like in high school, whatever, gossip can really be this currency. And if you can be the one to sort of provide like fresh gossip, then like, you know, you can really use it to like get in with someone or to sort of, you know, almost hold it hostage in terms of like, well, I know this about you. So you're like always going to be friends with me or something like that. I think it can really kind of, it can sort of be this like spider web that like attaches you to people and just sort of like is the root of like really bad relationships from there. Whereas now I feel like I've become much more comfortable with my relationship with gossip

now that it's like, it's sort of separate from my friendships in terms of like, it is not what like is holding us together, like our mutual like hatred for this person or whatever. It's like, it's like purely entertainment by you. And then we also like, like we care about other things. And like our friendship is all together by other things. But you know, I don't know, maybe I can interrogate that a little more. Would you like to hear some gossip? Would you like to hop in to a hot, juicy story? Our gossip this week is from a friend of a friend, as always, who called in with some gossip about a COVID relationship gone wrong. Oh my God, yes. I'm so excited. So our protagonist today, we're going to call her Bethany.

She decided in June of 2020 that she had been alone enough. Like she was like, I live alone. I work from home for like a nonprofit. My boss doesn't pay attention to me, right? So I'm just like sitting in my apartment and I'm lonely and I'm like, the walls are closed again. And I'm gonna be my fucking mind. I feel, I feel you, Bethany. It's relatable. And so she was like, you know what, I'm like not close enough with any of my co-workers and somehow like half of my friends have disappeared during the pandemic. They've all just like migrated somewhere else. She like lives in the same city that she grew up in. So she's like, theoretically, I could see my parents, but they're old. So I'm not going to go like give them my like, germy body during the height of

the pandemic. So it's like June 2020. And she's like, you know what, I'm gonna fucking date. I'm getting back on the apps. It's time. Diving right back into that. So this is like right after like like the crazy spring. This is like not this past year. It's 2020. Yes. Yes. So it was like right when we knew that it was like safe to be outside. So she decides she's like, I'm gonna date. And she's like, this time I'm using hinge. I've had terrible luck with Tinder in the past, right? And she's like, the luck I have had is like, you know, it's I go to a drink and I'm just like pulling my teeth out trying to talk to this person. Or like, maybe we go home together and I have mediocre sex, right? But I'm like not optimistic that this is going to work. And I don't think I'm going to have

good luck on hinge, but also I'm bored as hell. Yeah. So she's like anything would be better, right? Than what I'm doing now, which is like rolling around on my floor and crying. She goes on a couple of dates, like outdoors, no luck. She goes on a couple like park dates, no luck. And then she meets Chase. And things are like, what? I was just like, oh, no. My reaction was just like, girl, it's in the name. Like he's gonna, he's gonna make it. She meets Chase. And she's like, wow, you know, things are immediately easy. She's like, I can talk to him easily. There's not like, a lot of problems here. Like he has a real job. Great, I love that. Things are going fairly well. And she's like, I'm feeling pretty good.

And there's only like one real problem. And the, it's not a real problem, right? Uh-oh. The problem is he's like, he's an engineer and he's like not really on social media. So his like social presence is extremely low. Like his profile is super bad and outdated. He doesn't really post anything about himself. And he is like, oh yeah, I just don't like social media. Like I think it's a huge invasion of privacy. And I like don't want to be on it. And at first she's like, this seems weird, but then things are so easy and so good that she's like, some people just don't have social media. Like, is it me? No. Is it you? Also no. But like, I guess these people exist, right? And an important thing to know about Chase is that

Chase is from one of those families where all of the children's names start with the same letter. Oh. Oh no. So there are five brothers. Oh my God. Five brothers, all of their names start with C. Okay. The three in the middle, we don't need to know their names. It's not important, right? It's just, it's just the five of them. And so she's like, things are going pretty well. Chase and his three next youngest brothers all live in this city. So I'm like kind of integrating myself into their friend group, right? Like some of my friends are going on dates with his brothers. We're like seeing each other at parties, right? I'm like becoming kind of close with this guy, right? Chase the oldest. Chase is the oldest. Okay. So like six

months in, she's like, I feel like this is going pretty well. Like things are going great. She starts like telling her friends, I'm feeling like this is like, I'm feeling more and more confident to the point where when our friend of a friend saw her in, I think like August of this year, so they had been dating a little over a year, she was like, she was like, you know what, I'm pretty sure this is it, right? Like, I'm feeling great. I really like this guy. If he proposed, I would say yes. Okay. Right. And she's like, you know, he's, he's great. I really like him. But the thing about Chase is that he has these four brothers, right? And only three of them is he close to the fourth is who we will call the dreaded Colton.

Okay. He's the youngest. Okay. Okay. The youngest, the dreaded Colton does not exist to us, right? Like she knows that they're supposed to be four brothers, but she only ever meets three of them. And it's not until like a year into the relationship that he even mentions Colton. That's really weird. Yes. So she's like, this is super weird. And like, I don't like it. And like, why is he missing? And she like navigates to his social profiles. And of course they're like all private, so she like can't look at them, right? Miserable, terrible. But she's like, you know, I respect that like this brother exists and we're just not close to him. They go out on a date one night and Chase like really opens up. He's like, you know, I'm like,

really hurt. My brother has like basically cut off all contact with my family, which is like very painful because like the six of us are really close and we would love for him to also be close with us, right? Like by this point, Bethany has met his parents, right? She knows this family as this like gregarious, very intimate group. And she's like, Oh my God, I feel so like honored that Chase would tell me these things, right? He like cries a little. He's like my brother where I'm sad. He's estranged. Here are the things she learns about Colton during this conversation. He does not talk to any of his brothers or his parents. He works at a company that sells restaurant supplies and he lives in Arizona. Okay. So Bethany goes home and she tries to do

like her little, you know, investigative work on the internet. And there's like not a lot of work. There's nothing to see, right? Like it's not interesting. He's just like a normal guy. She's like, this is so weird. Like why would you cut off contact with your family? Like that's so, that's such a drastic decision to make for people who seem nice, right? What's like the age difference here? Like eight years between the oldest and the youngest. Okay. Okay. Why? Oh, I mean, I was just curious. I mean, my brother is eight years younger than me. Not that like we're estranged by always, like I always like to get an idea of like like sibling order and all of that. So yeah, I like that you're like, which one is he? Which one? Right? Like I do this too, because I'm the oldest.

So I'm like, are you the oldest? Yeah. Who else here is the oldest? Who's going to help me in a fire? Right? Yeah, like who knows where the AD is? Yeah, exactly. Okay. So this moment of like learning about the dreaded Colton brings her closer together with Chase because she's like, oh, we've like kind of bonded over this. And now I've like kind of had these like one-off moments with his brothers too, right? I'm feeling like really in this family in a way that is like foreign to me because I'm not like used to this. I have terrible dates all the time. So we're like a year in, right? It's been like 14 months. In September, she goes to dinner at her parents' house for her mom's birthday. Okay. And you know how your mom, I don't know how your mom is, but a lot of moms

have like a bunch of friends that you call aunts. Yeah, like they're like, here's my mom's friend who I see all the time. So a bunch of her mom's friends are there. And they're like people who've known her since she's a kid, right? So they're all like, oh my God, tell us about the boyfriend, like what's going on? Of course. And so she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, here's my boyfriend. She like shows the mom a pic on her phone, right? She's like, here we are. We look so cute, right? And she's like, oh yeah, like what's his last name? Because like they're both from families that are from the same city. So like the odds of overlap are pretty high, right? Yeah. And she's like, oh, here's his last name. And the mom's friend is like, oh, I don't know that family, but

does he have a brother named Colton? Oh my God. And she's like, this is like so spooky. I'm like, Oh my God, Colton is dead. My true crime brain isn't going crazy. She's like, yeah, he does have a brother named Colton. Why? And the mom's friend is like, Oh, what a small world. You know, I work in like the restaurant industry and I'm going to this conference next month and he's going to be there, right? He's like on a panel that I'm going to. So you now know that your mom's friend is going to interact, is going to this conference. She doesn't know that he's estranged from Chase and the rest of his family. She thinks that you're kind of close to Colton. And so she should probably say hello.

And also you have to decide whether or not to tell Chase. What do you do? Oh, I guess I would just tell Chase or yeah, I would tell Chase or I'd be like, yo, like weird thing. I like met one of my mom's friends, like knows, like is going to this conference where your brother is speaking. So I guess he's doing well, right? That's like the dreaded Colton. He's doing great. Oh, well, yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe if Chase was like really upset, though, when he talked about Colton, I would like not mention it. Yeah, you know, I don't know. I think I, so maybe, maybe I would just keep it to myself, just sort of depending. I might just be like, Oh, like, you know, let me know how that conference

goes, I guess. Although I'm like, I'm like, realistically, would I say something where I'm just like, Oh, like, I've heard he's not as close to the family just to sort of see if this like lady knows anything. I don't know. Yeah, I'm really acting like I would be a lot more like tighter lipped about this. I would probably say something like that. There was like, Oh, yeah, that's like one of the brothers of my boyfriend. But they're not super close and sort of just like test the waters that way. So you've stumbled into basically what Bethany did, which is she decided not to tell Chase because she was like, you know, he got really upset the last time we talked about Colton. Okay. And this doesn't really seem dire. Like, it's not like something dramatic is happening

with Colton. He's just going to a conference. So I'm not going to tell him, right? I'm not going to tell Chase. She's like, all I'm going to say to my mom's friend is like, hope you have fun at the conference and just like, let this die in the water. Yeah. Okay, good for her. She's like, this is, this is fine. Right? Yeah. Some of the people on this like the stories we get, I'm like, you are not nearly as nosy as I am. And you have much stricter morals, which is I'm happy. Yeah. So this interaction is like a little weird, but she doesn't think much of it. The next weekend, she goes on a date with Chase, right? Like they're going out to a restaurant. And it's just like, awful. Oh, like it's uncomfortable. It's grating. It's like,

it feels like a first date, right? Like she like, called our friend of a friend afterward and was like, do you think I did something wrong? Like, what do you think I should do? Do I talk to him about this? Right? Like what, what's happening? And her friend is like, dude, like he probably is just having a bad day, right? Like he's probably just like grumpy, like leave it be. And so Bethany's like, okay. The next day, Chase comes over and he's like, still really upset. And now like kind of upset at her. Okay. She's like, what the fuck is going on? Right? She's like, we've been to get like, usually things are great. We never have problems. What's happening? And Chase is like, my brother Colton found out that we're dating and was really upset that he

didn't know and hadn't been told. And I'm feeling like I'm just like a terrible fucking brother for not telling him about this like nice, long year plus relationship. And I just like, something about it is making me feel really bad. And I just am like pulling the plug, right? Like he's like, I want to break up. What? Oh my God. Wait, what? Like he feels what? This is crazy. At first she's like really broken hearted, right? She's like, this is terrible. Like I just like don't understand what I did. I don't understand how I could be the problem here, right? Like she's like, and then after talking to a few of her friends, she's like, now I'm also upset because like why would he have told his estranged brother? Like why is this a reason to break up with me?

Yeah, it makes no sense. What would you like to do here? I guess like, I mean, I don't know how this breakup ended, but like I would sort of just be like, like I think in the moment I would have been so shocked that I've been like, I guess this is how sometimes relationships just end, you know, but I think like it's like, thank God for friends, right? Because I would just go back and like, you know, I don't know how they ended things, but I would like call him and just be like, wait, I'm sorry, can you like explain this to me again? Because that's crazy. That makes no sense. So you're going to call him? Yeah. Yeah, I would call him. Yeah.

Bethany does not do this. She's like, I'm going to give him a week. Like I'm going to see if he just like figures it out on his own and comes back because she's also like, is it really my job to like, right? Like clearly something is like going on, right? Yeah, something's happening. So all of this happens over the weekend, right? On Wednesday, she gets a call from her mom and her mom is like, my friend just called me and I think it must be because some kind of mistake, but I gave her your number and she's going to call you. Is this the the conference lady? Yes. Oh my God. I'm like riveted. Bethany spends like the next three hours just like sitting in her bed, like when is this

woman going to call me? Like what is going on? I've already had the worst fucking weekend. My mom doesn't even know that I've broken up with Chase because like it's still in this like gray area, right? Like what's going on? She's like, it's also possible that my mom's friend is just calling me to tell me that she has like some MLM she wants me to join. Right? Yeah. So the mom friend calls and she's like, hi, I have something to tell you. And Bethany is like, please tell me quickly. And the mom friend is like, okay, so I went to the conference last week and I know that like Colton and Chase weren't that close, but I like, like I knew that you couldn't connect me to Colton, but I still needed to be connected to him for work, right? So I like went and tried to like

have a conversation with him. Things went really well. We have some overlapping business. We like kind of figured out how to work together and we ended up at drinks afterward with a bunch of other people from the like group, right? From this conference. And she's like, so I had a couple of drinks and I like, I asked him, I was like, are you from the Mid-Side City that we're from? And he was like, oh yeah, originally, but I haven't lived there in a decade, right? Like, kind of. And she's like, oh, that's so weird. Like I think my family friends are friends with your family. And he's like, okay. She's like, yeah, in fact, my closest friend's daughter is dating your brother. And he is like, oh, which brother, right? Because he's like a four fucking brothers. He's

like, which brother? And she's like, oh, Chase. And he is like, well, I hope she's happy. And the mom friend is like, you know what? Because she's a mom and she's had three, three wines. So she's like, you know what? Bethany is so happy with Chase. Like, thank you so much for asking. And the dreaded Colton is like, wait, did you say Bethany? And the mom friend is like, yeah, his girlfriend, Bethany, like my friend's daughter, Bethany. And Colton's like, wow, I didn't know he had a new girlfriend. Last I heard he was still living with Alice. What? Oh my God. Bethany has never heard the name Alice before. Yeah. She has no idea who this person is. According to Chase, he had had no like big,

serious girlfriends before her. Oh no. Oh my God. But she's like been over, right? Like, she's been to his apartment. She's friends with all his brothers. She's like, what? Okay. So she hangs up on the phone of the mom friend and we are back in your court. What do you do with his phone? We are driving to Chase's house and we're like, and we are banging on the door and we're like, who is Alice? Well, actually, I would, I would, well, because Chase is not really on social media, right? Damn. It's so annoying. I would just like, I would just be scrolling through the friends, you know? Yeah, I think I would just like either call him and if he's not picking up, go home and just like go real psycho on him and

find out who Alice is. Oh my God. Like the clarity I feel knowing I would do. I like that you immediately were like, I'm going to his fucking house. Oh, we were finding out today. We were in his flat with a sign that says who the fuck is Alice. I'm gonna stand out there to like get answers. I'm hiring like, like at this room in New York, I'd be like, I'm hiring the sign guy to just carry a sign that says who is Alice outside his apartment, like a normal person. Oh my God. So Beth really hangs up the phone and she's like, this is awful. Like you said,

Chase is not on social media. I don't know what to do. Like I'm losing my fucking mind. Luckily, she goes to her friends again before she like drives the Chase's house and she's like, what do I do? And her friends are like, we, okay, you need to take a fucking breath. Like you're putting a lot of stock in something that an out of touch brother who does not communicate with your ex-boyfriend said to your mom's friend. Yeah, that's true. This could be outdated info. Right. So she's like, yeah, okay, but like I have that feeling in my body where I know something. And she's like, I know what you're saying is reasonable, but also I completely disagree with you. And the friends are like, oh, we're not saying we shouldn't figure out who

Alice is. We should absolutely do that. Okay, good. We're just saying like, pull back your horses for one second. So Bethany is like, you know what? I'm going to call my mom's friend back. So she calls her mom's friend back and she's like, hello, what's Alice's last name? Oh, good. And the mom's friend is like, I do not have this information. And Bethany is like, cool, I'm going to need you to walk me through every single sentence that Colton said to you. Do you have any information about Alice? Yeah. And the mom's friend is like, no, I don't. But then like three hours later, she calls back and she's like, oh my God, I just remembered that he said that they met at private school, right? At this like specific

private school in the city. Oh, that's a lead. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So this is where you're nosy with this information. What do you do? Oh, I mean, she probably knows Chase is like graduating class, right? So I don't know. I feel like there'd be a little like between like Facebook, LinkedIn, like the school website, depending on how nice this website is, sometimes they have like, you know, a really nice like directory or alumni situation. I sound like I'm seeking from experience. Well, you are a journalist also. I was like, I'll say it's a lot easier to find these things out based on college. But yeah, she could really like this up, right? She could figure out, depending on like, you know, how how big this school is, how many ounces there are,

she probably find out who like her last name. And then like with her social media. Yeah. So she does this exact thing, right? She like goes, she navigates to like schools, Facebook alumni groups. And she finds within like a three year range of Chase's graduation year, two girls named Alice. Oh my God. And she looks at the first one. And she's like, I don't think this girl ever dated Chase, right? Like she's not his type. She like lives on the other side of the country. Turns out she only went there for like two years, right? Like it's not adding up. Yeah. The second girl's Facebook is on private. So she's like, this is annoying. And her Instagram is on private and her Twitter, like everything's locked down. But you know how on

Facebook, sometimes if you don't know what you're doing, there are like photos from five years ago. Oh yeah. That people can still see. Oh my God. So this Alice has photos from five years ago. So Bethany's like, click, click, click, we're going through all of these baby. And so she's like clicking through. And as she's clicking through, there are no photos of Chase, but there's a lot of fucking photos of things that Chase has. Right? Like there are like photos of guitars that she knows Chase has. There are like photos from what she would say is the same view as out of Chase's apartment window. Yeah. Oh my God. And she's like looking at the dates on these. And she's like, okay, they're like two years old, which isn't yesterday, but is also closer than I thought

it was going to be. Yeah. So now you have some more ammo. What now? Oh my God. First of all, I'm just like, oh my God, I feel like Sersha Ronan and little women were like, women are so observant. Like we are so observant. Because just even being able to line up like the views, you're just like, yeah, I absolutely know how that would happen. Man, I might DM her, you know, if I'm feeling especially crazy, I would just be like, hey, like, you don't know me, but like girl to girl, like I got to ask, like, did you ever date someone like name Chase? And if so, like, I don't know, maybe like the time spans that creepy to ask, I just like, I think I would just reach out, just be like, hey, this is so weird. But like, I have to ask that you date like Chase,

what's his face at any point, and just see what happens there. Yeah. So you and Bethany are like on a fucking wavelength. Oh my God. Immediately messages her. Good girl. Okay. What's up, Alice? Yeah. Did you ever date a guy named Chase? I'm just like, I'm so sorry to be creepy, but like I am in a spot. Right? Yeah. And you know how you when you send fucking Facebook messages, it like goes to the other folder. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's like Alice doesn't respond immediately. And she's like, this is fucking awful. And it takes like two days. And then she gets an email from Alice that is like, meet me at this bar at this time. What? This is so dramatic. Love it so much. Oh my God. Wow. Okay. Do you go? Do you think she should go?

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I would like, like tell a friend and like, share my location in case she's crazy, you know, but yeah, I would go for sure. Okay. She goes, right? She's like, of course I'm fucking going to the bar. Like I'm, now I'm like a week out from this breakup. I like Chase has not texted me since and now I'm furious, right? Like things have now taken a turn where I'm no longer- She has gone shady. Yes. Now things are shady and I'm going. So she goes and it's like, you know, a cute like upscale little cocktail bar, right? And there's this girl sitting there who is like, not dissimilarly looking from Bethany, right? And so she's like, is this Alice? Right?

She's like, is this Alice? And so she goes up and she's like, hi, are you Alice? And she's like, yeah, are you Bethany? And she's like, yeah. So she sits down and she's like, Alice is like, why don't you get a drink first and then we'll like check. Oh my God. And Bethany is like, okay. So she's just like ordering a drink, like sitting there very uncomfortably, right? Like waiting. She's like, what do you do? Yeah. Where do you, what neighborhood are you in? Right? Oh my God. The feminine urge to make small time. Like no matter the circumstance. She's like, I'm sitting here next to some girl who dated my ex-boyfriend of one week who I do not know. And I'm like, so do you live like off this metro? Like what? Yeah. Yeah.

This bar, right? So they're having their, her drink comes and she's like, please, I'm like, I'm gonna die. Please tell me what's going on. And Alice is like, please you tell me first. Like why did you message me? Yeah. And Bethany is like, you know what? I don't have shit to lose, right? Like I'm in a teller. So she takes her through this whole point of what I have taken you through, right? Of like, I met him, we dated, blah, blah, blah, this happened, the dreaded Colton, right? Yeah. She cares what's happening. And as she's talking, Alice is just getting like more and more upset, right? Like she's like adding, like Alice is waving over another drink, right? Like she's just like looking very upset.

By the time Bethany finishes her story, Alice is like fuming, right? And Bethany is like, please, like, did you date him? I need to like get information like, and she's like, yeah, so Chase broke up with me a week ago. Oh my God. On the same day he broke up with you on. What? Oh my God. We were together for five years. Oh my God. We lived together in that, in that apartment, in that house, in a different apartment. Thank God. But like we lived together. She's like, yeah, you know, I was supposed to like go to the family lake house for Thanksgiving, like I have done for the past four years next week. Oh my God. And Bethany is like, wait, so you know all of his brothers, right? Like so she's

met the family. She definitely knows the family. And she's like, yeah, of course, I know his brothers. Do you know his brothers? And she's like, yeah, I've met his parents. I've been over to their house. I like know all of his brothers. Oh my God. This is so fucked up. Integrated, like integrated into this family completely and had no idea what was going on. So they like are drinking more, right? They're dishing. They're like very furious. They're like this. They have ordered the bottle. Yeah, they're going downhill fast. Yeah. And the thing that keeps tripping them up is they're like, so this guy managed to have an affair, essentially, with one of us, depending on how you view it. And yet when he was given one hurdle to jump over,

which was his brother meeting someone who knew me, he couldn't clear it. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird because it's like, I mean, it's pretty fucking like audacious to be essentially dating two women in the same city, right? And for an inevitably like, if you're if you're like not keeping either a secret, and your family has like met both of them, like, yeah, it's weird that that he would sort of get weird out when it was like, oh, my estranged brother has like heard both names at once. Yeah, that's weird. It's extremely weird. So now they figure out through this like talking that he just panic broke up with both of them on the same day, because he was like, I can't figure out how to play this to my advantage. So I'm just going to break off both of these like very long

term relationships. Yeah. So now you have an alliance with Alice. You have all of this information. And this is the final time I will ask you what do you do? I feel like we get in touch with Colton, right? And then what? Like, why get in touch with Colton? I don't know. I guess, like, just to hear like the fuller story from his side of it from his funny view, I think. Oh man, this is so weird. It's like there's some like, I can't square the fact that it's like he's okay with like everyone else in his family knowing about this except for Colton. Like, why is like Colton knowing about this like the death knell for his like two timing ways? Yeah. So I think I would want to talk to Colton. Yeah. So they call Colton and Colton is like, which of course they do because he's like

online, right? He was at this conference. They're like, we can find his cell phone number. We're, we know how to use the computer and we're women. We're women. Yeah. They call Colton and they're like, hi, weird chases, two ex-girlfriends. Like, what's happening here? And he's like, yeah, this doesn't surprise me at all. They're all monsters. They've all always been like this. This is what they do. He's like, the other brothers have done it too. Like, they like secrets and they like to keep them and they like to keep them for other people. And that's why I don't talk to them anymore. Oh my God. Oh, this is like some weird sick family like like tradition. Like some people decorate gingerbread houses, other people like have affairs

and like their whole family like enjoys like being a part of the secret. Wow. Wow. And this is where we're going to, we're going to tie everything up. I'm going to tell you how this ends. Okay. So they're like, they get off this phone call and they're like, what the fuck, right? And they're like, we can't just like, right, there's a version of this where you can just like dust your hands off and be like, I'm done. I've survived something. I'm moving on. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. But because Colton told us that this is like a favorite behavior of this family, we don't want to do that. Right. If this is like some weird thing that they like like to do. Oh, great. Then you're just like opening a door for them to do it more. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So they're like, man, you know,

it's really annoying that Jesus isn't on social media because they're like, were he on social media? We could just like drag him. Yeah. Right. We could just like post. Yeah. Do you have any feelings on what they should do? So is none of the family on social media? Great question. The other three brothers are. Oh, I mean, I've been watching a lot of Gosta Girl. I'm like, I'd make a new account, make a nice little graphic with a full story, make it a slideshow. So you have to flip through it and then tag their asses. I know that we're like picking the right people to come on this podcast because you are the third person who has recommended making an alt to solve some kind of problem. It's like some weird like

self-preservation. Like, I mean, I'm not going to burn my, you know, Instagram dad, but I would, you know, make a separate one. So this is good advice. Bethany and Alice are mad enough that they're like, you know what? I will burn down my own social media presence. I don't give a fuck. Like I'm going to light my own house on fire if it burns yours down too. Right. Like, I don't care. So they make like a fucking note sap. Oh, hell yeah. And they're like, they're like, here's what happened. Here's who's involved. Yeah. Here's like our joint statement as the like ex-girlfriends of Dave. Oh my God. They post it to Instagram and they tag not only the brothers, but also like every school they've gone to is gossip page. Oh,

God. Oh, shit. I forget those half those now. Amazing. That's smart. And like the local paper and like a couple more things that like, you know, up thing up the ante. Yeah. And suddenly it's everywhere. Right. Oh my God. It's everywhere. And they start getting fucking DMs from other girls who are like, he broke up with me too. Right. Like, yeah. Or this brother broke up with me like because of this or like I found out he had a second girlfriend. Yeah. So they're like Colton was right. Right. Like they are all doing this. And the way that our story like nicely dies up is that all of these girls, this happened like recently, but all of these girls have, they are now having like drinks together, like all of the like girls who have been ruined.

Oh my God, like survivors of this family. Yes. Oh my God. And Bethany has been texting the dreaded Colton quite a lot. Oh, like in a romantic way. Oh, wow. I mean, I don't know, girl, like maybe you need to like a like a pellet cleanse first, but oh my God. And that wildest trait ever fucking hurt. Oh my God. And that that I mean, that's the end. That's where we are currently is that this is the minefield that lies behind you. Do you have any final feelings? Is this a white family? I have to know actually. Okay. I get, I will text and find out. I don't actually know the answer to that question. I mean, I, you know, like, I, I, I'm not sure if saying this would get me canceled. I'm like crazy white family shit man. It does seem that way. This is,

this is like the Cuomo's where they're like, I will defend my brother like bros before hoes and also like all like moral code. It's amazing. Right. It's like, when I was first told this story, my like inclination was to be like, fuck Colton. How dare you rat your brother out? Right. Yeah. And then very quickly I was like, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, that was the wrong inclination. Yeah. I thought maybe he was like psycho, you know, because yeah, when you hear like one person is estranged, you're usually like, Oh, something like bad happened because of them. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I'm going to be thinking of the story for like years to come. Oh my God. So did, did Chase ever like say anything? Like, did they, did she ever hear from family? Okay. No,

they've all been silent as you can expect the brothers deleted their accounts rapidly. Yeah. God, I hope she like put like pictures in that slideshow and that notes up. Here they are. Here's their names. Delia, thanks for coming out of the podcast. Where can, where can our listeners find you? I don't want to stop talking about this. Oh man. I feel like this place is Twitter. I'm at Delia, D-E-L-I-A underscore because I made my username when I was like, I don't know, A-D in spirit. And then since D-E-L-I-A underscore C-A-I Bethany, if you're out there, please DM me. I have follow up questions. Or Alice, you know, either, either I support the sister right here. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Oh my God. Thank you. I made it.

Thanks for listening to Normal Gossip. If you disagree with our takes or have a gossip story to share, please email us at normal gossip at defector.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 gossip, but please be aware that the voicemail box cuts you off after three minutes. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at at mckinneykelsey and you can follow the podcast on Instagram at atnormalgossip. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujan Loughlin. Thank you to Project Editor Justin Ellis and Editor-in-Chief Tom Lay and the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. If you love this podcast and want to support us, subscribe to defector at defector.com. Thank you to Gabby for sharing this

excellent gossip story with us. I'm Kelsie McKinney and remember, you did not hear this from me.