Normal Gossip - S1 Ep8: Spot the Scammer with Claire Fallon and Emma Gray

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

Claire Fallon and Emma Gray join us for our season 1 finale to hear about a girls trip gone horribly wrong. Follow Claire on Twitter @ClaireEFallon and follow Emma @emmaladyrose. Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. And don't forget to send us your FAMILY GOSSIP for our special between-season bonus episode. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs). Subscribe to Defector Media and get your first month for 99 cents at defector.com/normalgossip.  

Alex, do you think that we should tell them our little secret? I think we should. Our secret is that we are going on tour this summer. Woo! We're going to be sharing a new gossip story with you all, but this time live on a stage. There will be special guests and glow sticks and games. It's going to be so messy. You can get tickets at normalgossiplive.com.

And bring your secrets. Because we're going to read them. She literally is Anna Delvee. Literally. Oh my God. They're everywhere. The Delvees are everywhere. This is why you don't travel with friends.

Hello my little gossipers and welcome to the season one finale of Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and this is the podcast where we bring you a delicious morsel of gossip from the real world. This week we have Claire Fallon and Emma Gray on with us for an absolutely ridiculous tale, but before we get into it, couple quick housekeeping notes. This is going to be the season finale for season one, but please do not panic. We're still going to be around. We'll be updating all of our social media and we're currently working on a bonus episode,

but we need your help. For this season's break, we're looking for stories about family gossip. You can send that to the voicemail at 2679 gossip, but please remember it cuts off at three minutes or you can send it via a voice memo to our email at normal gossip at defector.com. Make sure you specify that it's for the bonus episode. Please make sure it's your own gossip to share so that we can play it. You can leave your name or stay anonymous if you want. Okay, this week we have Claire and Emma.

Claire and Emma are the hosts of the bachelor podcast Love to See It and the hosts of the general popular culture podcast and newsletter, Rich Text. Emma and Claire, hello, welcome. Hi. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. We're so excited. We're so excited to be here.

We're so excited to gossip. We're so excited to talk over each other this whole time and our eagerness to react to gossip. I think that's good and I'm excited to have you both here. Why don't you both start me off by telling me what your relationship to gossip is? I've been thinking about this because I've been listening to your pod and like, how will I answer this question? And I don't know that I would have self identified as a gossip beforehand, but the more I thought about it, I was like, Emma, you have to own it.

You are a gossip. But I'll say I think I'm like a benign, a benign gossip. I find gossip to be something that can be a really useful tool for bonding, for entertainment. And I like it to feel nice and light and fun. When it veers into darkness, exit. What was your hesitancy in calling yourself a gossip? I feel like it's not, doesn't really have a positive connotation generally, especially when you're a woman and sort of, I think, assumed to be somewhat flighty and silly by nature.

And I think often gossip is associated with teen girls in a way that is quite negative and dismissive. When actually we're just all having fun. Yeah, exactly. Or like when I think of the word gossip, I think of like a very harsh stereotype of a middle aged housewife in a house dress with nothing better to occupy her time with than talking about what she saw over the fence at the Joneses. Yes. I, however, I'm really not much of a gossip and I've been trying to figure out why no one ever tells me gossip. And I think that part of it is just that I don't have a very extensive social network.

And so no one ever brings stuff to me. You know, I have like a small group of like five close friends who are not friends with each other. So like no one's bringing me the background info. And when I used to gossip, it was usually at the office and I don't work at an office anymore. And so my connection to like that, that office social network and gossip sort of funnel has been cut off for me. And I think I'm very conflicted about it because I have like two sides that hate each other. I have a side to myself that's like wants to be liked and wants to be nice and wants to seem like very sweet. And then I have a side that's just like a raging judgmental bitch.

And each of those sides of my personality has like complete contempt for the other side. So I'm like, I want the gossip and then I get it. And I'm like, oh, but they seem so nice. Like it's so sad to hear that actually they're doing that terrible thing. And like, so I have a very fraught relationship with receiving the gossip that I think probably has made it me a more complicated person to gossip with. And like this podcast has prompted in me like a deep self examination of my relationship to gossip clearly. There was a slideshow yesterday from some like therapist on Instagram that was like how to respond to gossip if you don't want to do it. Kelsey, you posted that and it literally enraged me.

I was like, I will not be saying this to anyone. I felt so angry the whole time I was reading it because it was like, I've only heard nice things about her. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If you are going to divert my gossip, you must delete it. However, if you feel uncomfortable, that's fine. We could push through that. The thought of someone coming to you with news or something terrible someone has done. And you say, well, I've only had wonderful experiences with that person.

I mean, really think about what you're doing in that moment. You know, you're like, I want to make sure that the public narrative about this person for whatever reason stays uniformly positive. Right. It also feels like post the last two years of like uncovering me too. I was going to say that gives me a real like me to red flag situation of like, well, he never assaulted me. So guess he's good. Yeah, my experiences with him have been completely assault free. So I don't feel comfortable describing this right now. The moral is sometimes people are bad and they should be judged for it.

I think and sometimes people just do like weird shit. And you want to be able to take a little bit of harmless pleasure in it. And that's also OK. Yeah, you guys are going to fucking love the goss today. Oh, my God. Tell me you you both run a kind of two podcasts that have been about the bachelor and the bachelor franchise, which is notoriously gossipy. Can you tell me a little bit about how like gossip functions in the like

reality TV realm, how it's different from real life, how it's not? Oh, wow. That's that's a big that's a big question because I think that gossip functions a role both within the world of the show and also outside of it. So on the show, there is the perennial question of what did the contestants know about each other? What have they observed about each other? What have they heard about each other? And are they going to bring it to the lead and say this person isn't here for the right reasons

because they have a boyfriend or a fuck buddy or, you know, an even more horrifying character destroying sort of slur so it can be weaponized in this way. But also if you are the gossip that often redounds negatively to your, you know, credit. So on the show, gossip is this very dangerous but also powerful tool in the the the mission to rise to the top of the pack. And outside the show, gossip just is what they're they all just like become celebrities. And what are celebrities for if not for all of us to gossip about all the time? And that's because they have no other celebrity qualities other than giving us people to gossip about.

Exactly. In both cases, gossip is a tool. But afterwards, I think the gossip becomes on the whole far less dangerous because when you're talking about building an Instagram or a TikTok following, even some questionable gossip can in a way be be good for building that brand. So there are there are, I think, like more ways to play with gossip. And I also think that gossip plays a really important role in keeping the community of Bachelor viewers tied together.

You know, there are there's a very popular subreddit dedicated to the Bachelor. I would say that is pretty much exclusively about gossip on the whole. There are Bachelor like scoop and gossip accounts. And recently, reality Steve, reality Steve is the originator. But there are a lot of younger people who have now who operate exclusively on Instagram and TikTok that like full time do this. Yeah. And Claire and I have even recently started doing bonus episodes where we just gossip

because there is this entire ecosystem of questionably true news that is continuously circulating around all of these people. You know, the longer the longer this is the eighth episode of the show. But at this point, I'm like, is everything gossip? Because the more that we like talk about it, the more I'm like, what is a political appointee rumor about gossip? What is people getting engaged? But gossip, do you think that gossip has parameters or do you think it is like an

emotion? What what is it? It reminds me of that annoying thing that people say sometimes that's like really deep people talk about ideas and like shallow people talk about other people. And so the idea of like talking about other people, I think that does feel. Just say you're lame. It's like, sorry, I'm just talking about existentialism and you're talking about how your neighbor is having an affair with the plumber. You and I are not the same.

I mean, one of us is an intellectual. Exactly. One of us is having fun. But like so much of what we talk about is about other people. And I think that that also feeds into so many other like fiction is essentially just like a way to gossip without actually gossiping. And I think that's partly why we always see such curiosity about like, oh, is this character based on you and like are the other characters based on people, you know, and what are you implying about them?

Like anytime we're telling a story about other people, that has its roots in gossip and it's so it is just like inherently linked to how we love to know what other people are up to and like what human nature is like and how other people are showing that. I think we spend our whole lives trying to like excavate the truth about humanity, about other people and about why people do the things that we do. Like everyone around us is fundamentally to an extent unknowable, even the people closest to us.

And I think that gossip functions as a way to try to create that exploration. Like it just makes complete sense. And also it's absurd to try to separate ideas from people because all of our ideas are fundamentally at their core for the most part about people or about how the world functions with people in it. Well, speak for yourself. I have a lot of ideas that are purely conceptual and they're not related to people in any way.

Claire, this is not a philosophy podcast. Stay in your lane. OK, are the two of you ready to hear some gossip? You want to want to do some gossip? We're ready. Yes. OK, so to set the stage, we are in the pre-pandemic world. It's 2019. OK.

2019, our story concerns a group of friends. There are four friends, Maya and Naya, who are twins, Evelyn and Sophie. What? What? What do you have to say already? Trying to commit the names to memory. I'm just thinking that this is the platonic number of friends in a group. And I'm already trying to assign them to their sex in the city counterparts. OK, so we've got four. They're all in their last semester of law school.

And apparently, when you have a law degree, as none of us know, people really want to hire you. So they all have like firm jobs lined up right there. I just have to like get through this last semester of law school and then someone has promised to hire me. So one night over drinks, they're talking about like this summer space that they have between like graduating and taking these jobs. And they've decided that instead of going off on their own,

they should go on like a trip together to make their money go further, right? So like we can share hotels, we can share reservations, we can like share whatever. And this will give us more breathing room. They really figured out travel for the first time. They're like, sharing a hotel room, it's cheaper. Yes, they're breaking new grounds. They're drinking frozen margaritas.

They're like, you know what we're going to do? We're going to go to Southeast Asia. Ostensibly, what they say they're doing is they're going there because like they won't have time, quote unquote, to fly to Southeast Asia when they're all like very fancy, busy lawyers. They're like, we'll have limited vacation days eventually. Incredible. Everyone's excited. They've all been friends since the first year of law school.

They're like, we deserve this. This is what's going to help us get through the last semester. We're going to like motivate ourselves with this trip. But when they start mapping out like what they want to do, they quickly run into a problem, which is that there are like five different areas of Southeast Asia that they all want to visit and they can't afford to do all five of them. So they're like, what we really need to do is pick four.

They're like, where everyone go home for the week and when we meet next week for drinks, come back with like a ranked version of these fives and five and we'll pick four. The very democratic process. I was just going to say hard to believe this all went left because it's going smoothly at this point. OK, so they all come back. They've got their ranked locations, right?

They're like one through five. The problem is there are no clear winners. It is impossible to cut one of these locations because like the ones that are ranked fifth for someone are ranked number one for someone else. So it's like we can't figure out which one of these to get rid of. And so the twins, Maya and Maya are like, we have an idea. Instead of cutting one, why don't we add our friend from undergrad at UCLA

who is free this summer and wants to come. And everyone at Drinks is like, cool, great. We bring in this fifth person. She contributes to our trip. Now we can afford to go on five. Is that how that works? They're working out the finances of this with like such complexity, but they can't figure out how to like find out who won the ranked choice system

in any way. They're just like, instead, we'll do some financial magic and this new person will pay for our trip. I feel like just bringing a new wild card into a well-oiled social dynamic. This is starting to feel like a Ponzi scheme to me. Yeah, I'm nervous. I'm suspicious. OK, you're going to get more nervous.

Oh, no. The way they've decided to pay for this trip is that they've decided that each one of them is going to have a budget cap and a leg of the trip. So like you're in charge of booking the hotel and the reservations and making the itinerary for your leg of the trip. OK, OK. So they've divided it into five sections and each person gets a leg, right? Which makes kind of sense if you think about like they're all in law school

and they need to study or something. And so they're like, you need to like figure out a section of this. Everyone needs to do their part. But it's also like, OK, that's a lot of you've chosen to do something that I personally never do. OK, this is an important thing to understand about this group. Is that the girls who are not the twins Evelyn and Sophie are like, we feel great about this decision, right?

They're like, this is so nice while they're at drinks. The minute they're like walking back to their apartment, Sophie and Evelyn are like, can you believe this? Oh, my God, Maya and Naya are so annoying. Their friend probably sucks. Like who even is she? I searched their friends while I was in the bathroom on Instagram. And I think she's like some kind of influencer.

And to be clear, they like this decision. Like they're in favor of the fifth girl coming on this trip. So what are they not in favor of? The Maya and Naya making the suggestion they're like this this changes the power balance in the group. Is that the concern? I think what it really is is that these are girls who are like bound together by circumstance.

I don't really like. Yeah, I was going to say, this is not how you I've never. I can't if I were talking about a friend like this, I'm not going to be like on my high horse. I've never talked about a friend like this. I wouldn't be planning a trip to Southeast Asia with them at that point in time. That's like when I'm slowly drifting away from them

on a gentle sea of apathy time. Yes, OK, so they like plan the trip. Trip is planned. Five of them are going. They graduate. It's summer. The trip is here. OK, because our law students are in the middle of the country

and they need to get to Southeast Asia, they are flying into LA to make their connection. OK, at LAX, they are meeting up with this fifth member of the group, Maya and Naya's friend. Her name is Jenny. Jenny is Los Angeles, right? She's like wearing a matching fancy athleisure suit. She like has a hat and like she has nice luggage.

She has like those cheekbones that girls in the bachelor have where they're all like pumped with filler and so extremely beautiful. And Sophie, our friend of a friend, our like access to this story is like, oh, my God, you know, she's so beautiful. She looks just like a celebrity. I'm obsessed with Jenny. And Evelyn is like, she's just tall. She's just tall and she's just dressed well.

You're like losing your mind. You're just enchanted by her. And Sophie is like, yes, I am enchanted by her. She's arrived at the airport with like those little bottles of vodka for us to mix into our Bloody Mary's on the plane. I love her. She's hot. She's gone up to the counter with the flight attendant and persuaded them to put us all in the same row somehow.

I love Jenny. And Evelyn is like, oh, my God, she's so annoying. So I would like to ask now, like, how are you feeling? Do you trust these people? Do you think Evelyn has a right to be suspicious? I don't trust a single one of them. They all make me very nervous. I don't trust anyone with Instagram face to start with.

And I definitely don't trust anyone who would go on a trip to Southeast Asia with people that they don't like. So that seems like all of them. That's all of them. Yeah, I think we're out. So Evelyn is whining, right? She's like, I don't like Jenny. And Sophie is like, I cannot deal with this line of thinking

because my leg of the trip is first. This is very important. Focus the order of the weeks of the trip is Sophie, our friend of a friend, Maya, Jenny, Nia, Evelyn. OK, so Sophie and Evelyn are like bookending this trip. Got it. Got it. And sorry, the each leg is a week long. Probably not.

But it's a little unfamiliar to me. How long they're there, Sophie, Nia, one of the twins, Maya, Sophie, Maya, Jenny, Nia, Evelyn, Evelyn. Exactly. Thanks. So Evelyn is the most negative and she's last. This is this is a disaster. Oh, my God. And also Evelyn is like, she's not stressed yet

because her leg is so far away, right? Sophie is like, we're landing in Singapore and I have booked the hotel and what if everyone hates it? Right. She's like a little nervous. So now it's like they're each like throwing a party. They're doing like for a wedding. And if people don't have fun, then it reflects poorly directly on the person who planned that.

Exactly. Oh, no. Thank you. No, thank you. I don't like that. Yeah, I again, I opt out. OK, so it's laying lands in Singapore. Turns out everything's fine, right? The hotel is cute. They're having fun. Everything's going well.

They like Sophie has booked them a lot of like restaurants for them to eat at. And so they're like, this is great. They're eating street food. They're having so much fun. Evelyn like seems to be warming up to Jenny a little bit. So this is great. She like tells her story while they're while they're like eating

dinner one night about how she once ghosted this awful guy so hard that he thought she had literally died. And everyone is like laughing, like drinks coming out of their nose, laughing, right? Like everyone is having a great time. Sophie is like, I did it, patting herself on the back. So on their last day in Singapore, their last day of Sophie's leg, she's planned for them what she calls a wander day.

And that means she's like prepared for each of them a map. And on the map are like stores and restaurants and like little things that they didn't get to to see and everyone can just like go see them, right? So like do whatever you want. Because there are five of them, it's like a little too many of them to just like wander around. And Maya and Naya are like, we want to go to this luxury store. And everyone else is like, we do not want to go to the luxury store.

We want to like look around at Singapore. So we have two groups, right? Maya and Naya go away. Jenny, Evelyn and Sophie are like walking around looking at stuff and pretty quickly Evelyn ditches them. Evelyn's like, I have been with you people for so long. I need one afternoon alone. I need to just like look around Singapore, have some alone time. Goodbye.

And Sophie is like, this is great because I'm trying to bond with Jenny, right? She's like, this is the best thing that could have possibly happened to me. So Sophie and Jenny are having a really nice time. They're like going through an outdoor market, right? Sophie like finds a necklace she wants and Jenny like helps her bargain and like try to get the price down and like convinces her to buy it. They're having so much fun. They pop into like a little booth full of furniture

and this is where Jenny finds the lamp. Oh, my God, I've just never heard a lamp brought up in a way where I just knew that it was menacing. Bad things are going to happen with this lamp. This is a cursed lamp. I can feel it. The lamp is a floor lamp. So it's like four feet tall.

It's one of those like colorful birds where the bird is like looking up and it has like very long legs. So it's like an elongated vertical bird. One of those. And it's yeah, classic class. I have one in the living room. I get it. It's like it's carved out of wood. It's like hand painted.

Sophie and Jenny are like touching the bird lamp. They're like, it's so soft. Jenny's like, I love it. I'm obsessed with the bird lamp. But this is a big lamp, right? And so they're like, haha, funny, cool bird lamp continue to shop. But like the bird lamp has ingrained itself in Jenny's brain. And Jenny is like, I need the bird lamp to live.

And she's like showing Sophie pictures of her house in L.A. And she's like, look, this is the corner. I would put the bird lamp in. See how like the belly of the bird matches my couch. See how like this part matches my rug. And Sophie is like, damn, yeah, you've got to have it. So they go back to the like little area with the bird lamp. And they're like, I don't know.

It's like it's very big. Also, we're in Southeast Asia and hopping around a lot. So like, what are you going to do with this? I actually have a really good answer for that. They add the bird lamp to the trip. The bird lamp is going to plan the leg of the trip and also chip in. So like it'll work out actually to everyone's benefit. Brilliant. That's a great idea.

I see how this works now. Yeah. So they go they go back to the store. Jenny like asks the guy in charge of the store, like how much the bird lamp is. And he's like, it's three hundred American dollars. And she's like, no. And so she like haggles the man at the bird lamp store. And now he's like, it's a hundred American dollars. And so Jenny's like, Sophie, should I buy this bird lamp?

And so if he's like, what about the walk back to our hotel, which is a mile away? This is a big bird lamp. And Jenny's like, it's fine. It's not that heavy. I'll carry the bird lamp. And so if he's like, what about the fact that it's huge? Like, we're going to have to get on planes. And like, what are you going to do with the bird lamp?

And Jenny's like, it's fine. I'll just like tell the stewardess that it's a piece of art that I have to keep with me and like, she'll just let me bring it on the plane. What? Sophie at this point has watched. Sophie at this point has watched Jenny like skirt every rule that exists. So she's like, you know, maybe like this might work, I guess. Sure. So Sophie watches Jenny by the bird lamp.

Jenny is ecstatic, but now the bird lamp has to be like carried everywhere. There is now, as you've said, an extra person on this trip. It is the lamp. It's wearing sunglasses and hats. It's they're taking pictures with it, right? It's like the lamp is now here. There's not an immediate problem with the lamp because the second week is who's week. Do we remember? Think back, Maya, Maya.

Nice. So it's Maya's week and they're going to Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. And apparently you can take a train. It's a six hour train. And the plan was always to take a train. And so the bird lamp is fine, right? They just bring the bird lamp on the train up to this point. No issue. Maya's week is not important. So we're skipping right through it.

We have a lot of weeks to get through. Yeah. Yes. Do you remember who has the third leg? It's Jenny. Jenny. Jenny. OK. So it's Jenny's week. Jenny's week is in Thailand, right? She has Thailand.

You could take a train to Thailand, but I looked it up and it's 24 hours with two transfers. Oh, no, no, no, no. So in my opinion, taking a 24 hour train to Bangkok is a bad idea, just personally. So Evelyn is like, lol, this bird is dead. There is no way this bird is getting on a plane. The bird is going to be out of here. I'm no longer going to have to look at it anymore.

I'm not going to have to deal with it. Is Evelyn harboring some resentment towards Jenny? That's continuing to grow. I mean, even if you can take it on the train and all that, I would just be like, now we have to like one of our members is not only dragging her luggage. She's dealing with this huge lamp. Like, it just seems like it would weigh the whole group down. But like so annoying by furniture when they're on vacation.

So like, how do they have it? There have got to be ways to deal with this. You've got to I don't understand why you would why would you take it everywhere? I don't know. I can't answer the psychological questions. Ma'am, go go to a post office. Go to the USPS station and office in Singapore. Yeah, you like ship this to my house and I'll like, yeah,

there are solutions to this that makes sense. All I have is the information I was given from a friend of our friend. They did not take any of the solutions that make sense. OK, so it's the morning that they're going to Thailand, right? And Jenny's been like, make sure all your stuff's packed. We need to leave at like eight a.m. right from the hotel. Evelyn's like, bye, bye to the birthday. Can't wait to get on this plane.

There's no way she's going to talk her way into this. They go downstairs and it's not like a shuttle to the airplane. It's like a fancy SUV with a driver. Are they being driven all the way there? Yes. How long of a drive is that? What? It's like 20 hours. What? Wait, how did they not know this ahead of time? Because everyone's in charge of their own way.

So they didn't book their own travel. Just like they're just booking plane tickets. OK, that is. This is why you don't put someone else in charge of your airplane tickets. One day they'll just be like, oh, I don't feel like flying. So I got us an SUV to drive 20 hours together instead. Evelyn is also like, have either of you traveled abroad? A little bit like alone as a woman.

No, not alone, but like, yes, with groups, with the groups of friends. If you're in a group of girls who's like traveling together, there is like a lot of, you know, opportunities to make like taken jokes. And Evelyn is like, Evelyn is like, you know, we've been making a lot of jokes about like being kidnapped. This feels like ripe territory for me to be kidnapped. Is just like getting into this SUV. No. Right.

And so Evelyn is like, but I'm going to use time, right? I'm going to be like 20 hours in a car to go to Bangkok. Absolutely not. So she pitches a fit and Jenny is like, lucky for you, we're not going to Bangkok. What? What? All right. So Jenny has decided that this whole group is writing 20 hours in a car

and that they're not going to Bangkok. Evelyn is obviously freaking out and Jenny is like, you're no fun. Just let me have my surprises. It's my like of the trip. This is going to be really nice. Can you please get into the SUV? I promise it will be fun. Do you think it's a good idea to get into this SUV?

No. Demand more information. Do they, does she tell them where they are going? Or is she just like, it'll be a fun. No, no, no, absolutely. No, no, I'm not getting in the car of an Instagram model without knowing exactly where it's going in Southeast Asia, having no idea the location, the amount of time I will be trapped in this vehicle, like absolutely not. Sophie is like Evelyn, if you do not get into this fucking car,

I am going to murder you myself. And so Evelyn is like, fine. She gets in the car and they drive and they drive for like six hours and it is a beautiful drive, right? They're like, this is so pretty. We're having that we like seeing we're stopping for snacks or we're having fun, whatever they arrive at a like small village six hours away. And Jenny is like, this is where like my ancestral family is from.

And I just wanted to like come and stop here because it has a really cool like artisan area. And I wanted to like visit my ancestors and Evelyn's like, that's cool, but you could have fucking told us. Like I would have signed off on this like section of the trip if I had known that that's what we were doing. And everyone is like Evelyn, you're being really rude. This is where her family is from, like be respectful.

OK, I'm sorry. No, this is not about respect. She should respect their time and not lie to them about where they're going. And like you're you're the fifth wheel on this trip. There's a certain level of respect when you're like and during a group of people, you don't know, I'm offended. Yes. And Evelyn is also like mapping where they are to Bangkok, right? And she's like, there are still 12 hours left to like get from where we are

to where we're supposed to be. So the next day they get in the car and they drive six more hours and Evelyn's like, this is not enough. It's 12 hours to Bangkok. Like why where the fuck are we? And they're like in a province of Thailand that I'm sure is popular, but I had never heard of it and they're like eating dinner and Evelyn is pitching a fit, right?

She's like, we were supposed to go to Bangkok. We all wanted to go to Bangkok. You're ruining my life. Well, and Jenny is like, will you fucking chill? She's like, oh, tomorrow we are going to the full moon party. Do either of you know what the full moon party is? Should I? No, I'm not. I'm not cool. Tell me.

Yeah, same. OK, the full moon party is an all night beach party on an island in southeastern Thailand that is mostly attended by tourists. I feel like I've seen this in like bad days or something. Yeah, it sounds familiar. So it's like a big beach party. There's like anywhere from 5,000 to 30,000 people come to like each of these full moon parties.

There's one every month for the full moon, right? They're like fireworks. The bars are open all night. You know, it's the classic like neon lights. You're not allowed to have drugs, but also drugs are everywhere, right? So Maya and Naya are like screeching, like they're fucking thrilled. And Evelyn and Sophie are like, what is this? Like where they're like us, right?

They're like, what is this party? And so Jenny explains it to them and suddenly they're both like, oh, fuck yeah, like we can't wait to go to the full moon party. We're going to have so much fun. We're going to be up all night. So they're all on board now. They're all on board for the full moon. Well, they have places to sleep.

OK, so this is a good question. Most party goers, thank you for asking, do not stay on the island where the full moon party is. They stay on like coastal hotels and then they take a two hour boat to the island. Oh, two hours. People are committed to partying. I do not know.

You can party like literally anywhere. Like can can people like grasp this? Like you can have an all night rager almost anywhere if you're really committed to true. I just prefer the option to go to sleep without a two hour commute. If I desire to do so. Yes, they're all excited to go to the party.

They're all up. I don't know what to tell you. OK, so they eat they eat their big lunch because to these girls credit, they're like, you need to eat a lot before you go like that is important. So they like eat a lot of carbs. They like have something to absorb their alcohol and they get on the boat to the island around five.

Immediately they lose cell service. Oh, God, it's happening. They're being taken. This is a death trap. Oh, yeah, Jenny says, I forgot to tell you all about that. There's no cell service on the island. And this woman is shady. Is Jenny a sociopath?

She's like, but your phone's clock will still work. And like we leave at daybreak to go back to our hotel. And that boat is at five. So we'll all just stick together. And if you get lost or like you leave in a group of two, just meet back at the boat at five. So what you're telling me is it's 12 hours before they can go to sleep. It is 12. Well, no, it's more than that

because it's the two hours back on the boat at five. So it's 14 hours from the time they get on the boat to returning to bed. So they get to the party. Everyone's having like a blast. Like it is a good party. It's like everyone's drunk. Everyone's having fun.

They start on the beach. There are like little bonfires. They're taking photos for their Instagrams, right? Everyone is so happy. They like go to a bar. They're having a great time. They're like doing shots. They're doing karaoke.

They're like singing, you know, like Journey. They're having so much fun, right? Everyone is so drunk. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I swear, OK, I swear, it's so good right now. It's so good. OK, you're fucking hot. Around 3 a.m. Sophie looks up and she's like, where's Evelyn?

She was right here. She's like, huh, that's weird. She probably just like went to the bathroom. So Sophie like goes to the bathroom. No Evelyn. She like makes another lap around the bar. No Evelyn. She like does a classic white girl thing

and she asked the bartender, she's like, can I stand on this bar to see if I can spot my friend who's extremely blonde and he's like, sure. And she gets on the bar and she's like, no Evelyn. Is Evelyn dead? I'm scared for Evelyn. I will remind you, this is a happy part. Sorry, I was like, is this a horror film

or did Evelyn just like find a really hot person to go like have sex with? OK, good idea. What are you thinking, Claire? My first thought was, yes, that she was taken. Second, she's hooking up with someone. Third was she's fucking with them because she's annoyed about how this is all gone.

And fourth is she's found somewhere to sleep. Those are all my guesses. I think those are really the four iterations. Those are the four options, yeah. So if you're Sophie, what's your move here? Panic, have a meltdown, start screaming. Where's my friend? A lot of friends, my friends who took my panic,

running around. No, I would probably be like at five, we're all gonna meet at the boat and she'll be there. And so I'll keep my eyes peeled but we plan for this, yeah. I'd probably be like, are there some extra drugs that I can have to lower my anxiety level? Yeah, better to get more intoxicated when this sort of thing happens.

Sophie is panicking. And an important thing to know about Sophie is that she was a camp counselor. And so she's like, we're doing head count, right? She's like, Maya and Naya, check. She's like, Maya and Naya, we have a problem. Evelyn is missing, do you think this is a problem? Maya and Naya are like, we're panicking.

This seems extremely bad. We should definitely know where Evelyn is. And Sophie's like, I agree. She's like, we need, where's Jenny? I'm doing my head count, right? Maya and Naya, we've got, where's Jenny? Jenny is like in the corner making out with some guy. Do you interrupt her?

Yes, yeah, probably. Why? I feel like Jenny makes out with enough people. I feel like the important thing here is we have one other person here who knows who Evelyn is and who might be able to say, yes, I saw her. She was headed this way. So Sophie is like, I don't give a shit

who she's making out with because nobody else is going off alone. We are all gonna have buddies and we are gonna find Evelyn. So she like sidles up to Jenny and she like pokes her shoulder and she's like, Jenny, Jenny. And Jenny is like, she's gone. She's making out and she's like, Jenny, Jenny.

And finally, Jenny opens her eyes and Sophie is like, Evelyn is missing. And Jenny to her credit is now like alert. She's like, excuse me, goodbye, what? Sophie's like, she's gone. Like she was here and now she's gone and like they can't hear each other, right? Cause it's like fucking bar and it's so loud.

And so they like go back out into the street and they're like talking, right? And they're like, okay, like my first question is was she at this bar? Like who remembers her being here? And they're all like, no, she definitely was here. Like she sang this song with me. How long ago was that?

I don't know, like an hour. And they're like, okay. So we know she was here. Like she could have gone back to the beach, right? Because there's a lot of partying going on there. There's not like a lot of other places for her to go in this area. So most likely she's like here,

couple more bars or at the beach. What do you think they should do? Ooh, this is interesting. Cause they could check more quickly if they split up. If they go together, it takes longer but they don't risk getting split up again. So I'm going to say with murder movies in mind that they have to go together

and systematically check each location where she might be partying. You don't think a buddy system would work? I think you could, you could go with a buddy system. But then what if one, what if one, what if one pair of buddies shows up at the meeting place and the other pair of buddies never go? That's true.

That does sound terrifying. I'm fully in horror movie mode. They pick buddy system. Buddy system is just more efficient. That's probably what I, what I would do, honestly. And at this point they're like, we're freaking out, but like it's entirely likely we're going to find her very quickly, right?

So they're like, Maya and Naya, you're in charge of this bar and the two bars here. Jenny and I, Sophie are going to go check the beach. Everyone meet at the beach at four, right? And then we'll get on the boat at five, right? We now have a strategy. Jenny like texts on her phone, like to Evelyn, are you okay?

Obviously this text does not go through because they don't have service. Sophie and Jenny are like walking back toward the beach. And you know when you're like trying not to panic, but you are like actively panicking. And so you're like looking at each other and you're like, this is going to be okay, right? Like they're like, should we, should we run to the beach?

We should probably just like run. Oh yeah, it's so cute. Just like two girlfriends going for a little run. Maybe we're being chased or not, I can say. Our friend's totally alive, she's totally alive. So they like, you know, they jog to the beach barefoot and they're like searching around.

They're like getting very worried. They're like Evelyn is not here. She's not like at the next fire pit. She's not like, it is not looking like she's here, right? And it's been like 30 minutes. And they're like, if Maya and Naya had found her, they would have come here with her because that's what we told them to do.

So they're like, the fact that they're not here and we can't find her is very bad. And they're looking down the line of like coastal, like, you know, like bonfires and shit. They're like, this is a lot of ground to cover. Like how do we make sure that we look at all of it and see if we can find her? And they're like also looking at the ocean.

And they're like, could she have gone into the ocean? Jenny's like, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna bribe this man with a small motorboat to drive us down the coast and yell for Evelyn. What? So she like, hands him a bunch of cash. They like get in the boat. They're like Washington crossing the Delaware,

yelling at the beach, right? They're like Evelyn, right, trying to find her. They do this for like 45 minutes. No Evelyn. And they're like, we feel like we've done a pretty good like search of this beach. Like the island is big, but we're pretty certain she's not on the beach.

And they're like, okay, they're looking at their phone. They're like, okay, it's 415. So like Maya and Naya will be at our meeting spot. Maybe they have Evelyn. So they go back and Maya and Naya are sitting on the beach and they do not look happy and there is no Evelyn. Oh my God. So the four of them spend the last like hour of the night

sitting on the beach just like waiting for their 5 a.m. boat back to the hotel rapidly sobering up. And like the only hope in their mind is like, we told her to be here at five, right? We told everyone that the boat leaves at five and that she should be here then. Remember, it takes two hours to get back to the hotel and then two hours to get back to the island.

So there is a boat at five and a boat at nine. Oh God. 9 a.m. so like four hours later. It's the same boat that comes back. They're not getting on that five. They're not getting on the 5 a.m. boat. You're not. Neither of you are getting on the boat.

I'm sorry. No. If she's not been found, I don't think you can get on the boat. If there is another boat, I don't think you can get on the first boat. Because you can sit there and watch everyone get on board. You know if Evelyn isn't on the boat, right?

Yeah. But if she's not, what are you gonna do? Leave? Does it change your mind to know that the boat is running back and forth all night just at two hour increments? Oh, well then why couldn't they go back earlier? Well, they just weren't.

They were staying until five. Okay, but there was like, what you're saying is there was like a 3 a.m. Or a 4 hours before a boat or some, a 1 a.m. boat. The boat is now here. You're sitting on the beach. The boat is here. All four of you are together.

Do you wanna get on the boat? And there's no way to contact the, can you like, do the bars have like phones that you could? If they do, these girls did not think of that. So the other thing to remember is they are very tired and now extremely hungover because they have made a huge mistake and they stopped drinking.

Oh yeah, you just gotta keep drinking until Evelyn is found at this point. But the panic, yeah, I understand. I'm gonna say that given the fact that they have looked everywhere for Evelyn, she could have left already, which I didn't initially realize. I am gonna say get on the boat.

Yeah, I think at a certain point, perhaps you're no longer functioning and you just need to go back where your phone works and see if you can reach Evelyn. Go back and check and see if Evelyn left overnight. So they stand on the boat dock and they wait for five a.m. and the minutes are ticking by.

And it's important to remember that everyone else on this boat is still raging, right? So everyone around them is still drinking, still doing drugs, still wild and they're all exhausted and panicking. Evelyn does not arrive. The boat leaves Sophie Vomits off the edge of the boat because she's like, my friend is lost

and now we're leaving this island and she did not show up for the boat that we were supposed to get on. And Jenny is like petting her back and Jenny is like optimistic. Jenny is like, she's okay. Like she probably just went home with someone and like that's a totally reasonable thing to do.

So like don't panic. And Sophie's like, will you shut the fuck up? Like my friend could be dead. I am panicked. She's like losing it. She's like, you have no idea what you're talking about. Like you brought us to this island with no cell phone service.

You didn't give us clear instructions. And now Evelyn is missing. And Jenny is like, you know what, you're right. And I'm sorry, you are right to be stressed. I was just trying to make you feel better. So if he's like, I don't feel better. So they're like sitting on the boat. So if he's like gripping her phone, right?

They're all just like staring at their phones, waiting for like service to return. Around them, everyone is still partying. Like people are trying to get them to dance. They're like do it. You know, it's like a whole scene on the boat that they're all very unhappy to be in. Jenny gets service first and she knows that

because her text to Evelyn goes through. So she's like, I've got service. And so Sophie, like, you know that where you turn your phone on airplane and then you turn it back on. So she like turns her phone on airplane and turns it back on and she has service. And not only does she have service,

she has a voicemail notification. Oh, fuck. Is it from a ghost? Oh my God. So she picks up the phone, right? And she's like, it won't play, right? Obviously, because it's like, now that you need it to play, it won't, right?

So she's not playing, not playing, she puts her phone on airplane mode, she takes it off, she plays it again and it's Evelyn's voice going, hey, Sophie immediately burst into tears. Evelyn's like, I'm fine. Sorry, I didn't find you before I left, but things were just getting too crazy

and I was freaking out, so I had to leave. Ah, wow. Well, now I'm just furious at Evelyn. You're both mad. She knows they don't have service. You don't fucking do that to your friend, you just say to them, I'm gonna go home. You just say, I'm tired.

You can't do that. Yeah, you cannot, like, no. Oh my God, now I'm so relieved they got on the boat. Sophie is like, flooded with relief. Like, she's like, I am thrilled that my friend Evelyn is alive, but I am not in the mood to talk to her because I am furious.

So when she gets back to the hotel room and Evelyn is not there, she does not care. She's like, Evelyn probably just went out for breakfast or something. She ignores it. Also, as we've mentioned many times, she's been awake for a million hours,

so she's like, whatever, I'm going to bed. When she wakes up at 7 p.m., though, after her nice, leisurely, long nap, Evelyn still isn't there. And now, because she's well rested, she's also a little more aware of her surroundings and she looks over and she's like, hmm, not only is Evelyn not here,

but her bag is gone. Wait, what? It is now 7 p.m. You've woken up from your nap. Evelyn's gone. Her bag is gone. What would you like to do? I mean, have they tried calling Evelyn?

Like, they have certainly called her one million times. They should have immediately alert the front desk. Like, what? Immediately text Evelyn and be like, glad you're alive. We're at the hotel. You're not here. Making sure that you're okay nearby.

We've been very freaked out or going to sleep, but you better be here for dinner. Proof of life, please. Like, where are you now? We're not at our hotel. We thought you left to sleep. I'm sorry, no. That voicemail could have been from,

it was probably from hours before. Yeah, she could have been taken at any time in between like 3.30 when she left the voicemail. Is the lamp still there? Yeah, the lamp is still there. Good question. Oh, okay. Sophie is like, I'm not calling this bitch.

I have Evelyn on Find My Friends. So Sophie navigates over to Find My Friends. Evelyn is at the airport. She's at the airport without telling them. Sophie calls her, no answer. Like it rings, but no answer. She calls again. No answer.

Calls a third time. The phone was to voicemail. Evelyn's dot is no longer at the airport. She has Irish goodbyeed the entire trip. What? What? No. So all her stuff was gone?

They didn't notice that all her stuff was gone? All her stuff was gone. And I assume now like that last leg of the trip just can't happen because they don't even know the plans. But they've presumably all contributed money. Is Evelyn International Woman of Mystery Anna Delvy? Like what's going on? I know, I'm getting serious Anna Delvy vibes.

Claire and I have been down a deep rabbit hole of German heiress content. Fake German heiress content. That's all I can see here. Like fake German heiress. Is she a scammer? She's a bad friend. She's a bad friend for sure.

I've got nothing. What had happened? I mean, of all the times to leave. I mean, it just seems like she picked that time because no one would be around to stop her. Yes. Did she think that she was literally being held captive by them, that she had to wait until they were on an island

without cell surface? We got this story through someone who knows Sophie. So it is hard for me to read into what Evelyn was thinking. But I think she just like got sick of it and was like, I'm not fucking doing this anymore and went home. OK. I respect your right to be over it

and maybe even be like, I need to end this trip. But you have to tell people that. And you can't like strand them and just be like, I'm sorry. I've canceled an entire leg of our trip. You have no access to any of the things I've bought. That was her way of contributing to the trip. So now she has gotten this trip essentially for free. Feels like a scam.

Feels like a scam to me. She's canceled. The next morning, they like drive to Bangkok. It's another in Bangkok to do the rest of Jenny's leg. They still have Naya's leg and technically Evelyn's leg. But now you have this like empty spot for Evelyn's leg where you were supposed to be in Cambodia and you have no idea what you're supposed to do

and also your flight leaves from Cambodia. What would you like to do? Oh, I'm writing Evelyn a very bitchy text. Just like, very bitchy. Like, I'm gonna go home. No, I think I would lay out exactly what I need from her. And I would start with a strongly worded message of just like, so glad that you're not dead.

We were so worried. Given that you have decided to abruptly leave all of us without warning or any care for our safety, please send us the itinerary as well as Venmoing each of us like X amount of money for the trip that you have received for free. And you have to hammer home the emotional distress of the entire situation.

You gotta make her feel guilty. While they're in Bangkok, like, Sophie checks her phone and Evelyn is like, safe at home. She's in the United States now. And no contact. She didn't text any of them. No contact.

She didn't answer. Nothing. What? She... What the fuck? Does text Evelyn? I don't know what she said, but I assume it was something.

And they never hear from her again. They never hear from her again? Wait, what? Did they ever talk to her again in their whole lives? Please wait. We're gonna get there. Okay, sorry. Sorry.

So much has happened already. I'm like, this has to be the final page. Oh my God. Okay. Everyone is in such a foul mood. They make it through Bangkok. They make it through wherever Naya's fucking week is. And they're all like, you know what,

we can't do this anymore. We're all bitter and frustrated and want to kill each other. The person who sent us in this gossip said that if you were watching their Instagrams of the trip for the first three weeks, it was photos every day. Everyone's having a great time and then nothing.

Oh no. So like people knew that there was like shit going on. They just weren't sure what it was. So they just moved their flights from Cambodia and flew home. And that is the end of our story. I do have some final updates for you. Please. Which are...

Oh thank God. Jenny Sweet talked the stewardess into letting her bird fly on the plane. Wow. Being traded really does. Evelyn was like, I just don't want to be there when she definitely gets what she wants just because she's tall and pretty.

I just can't, I can't handle it. I have to leave without saying a single word. I have to ruin everyone's trip. She's looking out for her own, she's setting a healthy boundary. She's looking out for her own emotional health. Is she? So Jenny arrived back in Los Angeles

with her precious bird lamp and they live happily together. Maya and Naya went to work for some big law firm. Evelyn also moved to Los Angeles after graduation. And the last time Sophie was there, she saw both of them. Like, like saw them? What? Yes. Like together?

Separately. The three of them hang out or separately? So Sophie has reconciled with Evelyn, is what you're saying? Yes. Did... What's the explanation? I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know the explanation. So Sophie was able to be convinced by Evelyn that what she did was forgivable and therefore was like soundly based in something. But not something terrible that Jenny did because Sophie is still friends with Jenny. So how, like, what would you have to be told

by a friend to forgive this behavior? You know what? And to ever be friends with them again. Maybe Sophie is just, like, a really sort of a sucker and also really loves her friends. Ding, ding, ding. Our friend of our friend said, like, Sophie just, like, cannot be in a fight with anyone.

Like, she... It's called quietly not being friends anymore. My God. No, I sort of get it because I am so allergic to, like, thinking that someone's mad at me. And so I think I understand Sophie a little bit. But I think this might be, like, a bridge too far, even for me.

Like, you ruined our collective trip. You made me think you were dead. You then, like, sent a cryptic voicemail and then ghosted me when I tried to figure out where you were and you just flew home. And no, that is extremely selfish behavior. That's not a person you should be friends with. She's got to, she just has to cut her out.

Do you want to hear the final kicker? Yes. There's more? Oh, my God. Yes. Evelyn never planned the Cambodia leg. What? Oh.

What did I say? Scam. So that's an explanation. This is all a scam. Scammer. She was like, I'm just going to find a reason to dip before my leg. Yeah.

And she was laying the groundwork from moment one. She's like, wow, Maya and I are so annoying. And then she's like, wow, this girl Jenny is too hot. Fuck her. And then she's like, why would I go on this van? And then she just panicked. She should have left when she had one of them. They're going to find out.

If she had left when it was the van thing and the changed itinerary, that would have looked kind of legit. And then she just waited until the middle of a perfectly normal night and was like, you know what? I'm just going to dip now. This seems like a nice time. Well, I don't understand what she was thinking. If I hadn't planned it, I would be so panicked.

I wouldn't even get on the initial plan. You would be intending to deal with it when the consequences came. And what she's realizing is like, you just don't deal with the consequences. You leave. She literally is Anadelby. Oh my god.

They're everywhere. This is why you don't travel with friends. The only explanation I have been able to come up with for this is that you have to leave when no one is around because otherwise they're going to demand the itinerary for you. Yeah. Oh, tactically, it completely makes sense. Like now I understand why she did this,

but it's like very much scammer, calm woman behavior. It would seem sort of rational and fair to leave at the point where you're like, I'm being like, I'm not, I don't consent to this new itinerary, this new way of travel. I don't consent. But yeah, then you're present. They can demand the money or the itinerary yada yada.

But if you leave during the party, then no one there to demand anything from you, but it's really obvious that you're doing a scam. But then Sophie's still friends with her, so she gets everything she wants. Oh, wait, you know what? Wow, I hate. I found a new mortal enemy and her name's Evelyn.

Claire and Emma, thanks so much for coming on the pod. Oh my god. We're both so angry now. Where can our listeners find you? Where would you like to be found? You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Emma Lady Rose and you can find our newsletter rich text at Claire and Emma.substack.com

and you can find our podcasts on Instagram at Claire and Emma Pod. And I'm on Instagram and Twitter at Claire E. Fallon, although I'm mostly hibernating, so you will never see me. Thank you both so much for coming on. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us.

This has been an honor. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the first season of Normal Gossip. If you disagreed with our takes or have a gossip story to share, please email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 gossip and please don't forget to send us your family gossip

for our bonus episode. You can follow me on all social media at at mckinneykelsey and you can follow the podcast on Instagram at atnormalgossip. Thank you to Calvert, Kaelin, Alex and Eleanor for doing the voice acting for our drunk girls. Thank you to Danny for the gossip. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujan Loughlin.

Thank you to Projects Editor Justin Ellis and Editor-in-Chief Tom Lay and the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. If you love this podcast and want to support us, subscribe to defector.com. I'm Kelsey McKinney and remember,

you did not hear this from me.