Normal Gossip - S2 Ep7: Dishing in the Confessional with Emma Eun-joo Choi

Episode Date: June 29, 2022

Comedian, writer, and host of NPR's Everyone & Their Mom, Emma Eun-joo Choi, joins us for a story about teenage love that went on way, way too long.  You can support Normal Gossip directly bybuying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs). 

Alex, do you think that we should tell them our little secret? I think we should. Our secret is that we are going on tour this summer. Woo! We're going to be sharing a new gossip story with you all, but this time live on a stage. There will be special guests and glow sticks and games. It's going to be so messy. You can get tickets at normalgossiplive.com.

And bring your secrets. Because we're going to read them. I'm going to go with like, pop-off queen? Like, I think that's a good job. Right? Hello, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and in each episode of this podcast, we bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world.

Before we get into this week's ridiculous story, I just wanted to take care of some business up top. The first business we have to do is the bonus episode. We are yet again going to produce a bonus episode with your special stories, including your audio for after this season ends. And this season, we're looking for niche community drama stories. So we're looking for stories about your community garden, about your dog groomer, about your chess club, about your best friend's sister's roller derby team.

All of those are great. You can send in any of your niche community drama to our hotline at 2679Gossip. But please remember that the voicemail box will cut you off after three minutes. Or you can send us a voice memo to our email, which is normal gossip at defector.com. We love reading your emails, but it's way better for the listener show if we can hear your voices too. And Alex does know how to do some magic where we can adjust how your voice sounds. So if you need that, we can provide it.

Okay, the second business we need to do is just a quick reminder that the seasons are only eight episodes and two bonus episodes. This is episode seven, which means there is one more episode. And what that means is that we are about to take a break again so that Alex and I do not die of exhaustion. But this time, because we have introduced subscriptions, you can get access to special monthly secret episodes where one of you comes on to tell me a gossip story while we are on break.

We recorded the July episode last week and it was a real banger. I was laughing my ass off about it. It was really fun. At both levels of subscription, friend of a friend and friend, you'll get access to the secret episodes. But if you subscribe at the friend level, you can also enter a pool to be a guest on our next secret monthly episode. You'll also get added to our close friend circle on Instagram.

And a lot of the friends on there have added us back to their close friend circles on Instagram, which is very fun. So please do that because we love secrets. And your subscription support more than just us. Normal Gossip is a part of Defector Media, which is a subscriber-based media company. So we can only do what we do because of subscribers. Thank you so much to everyone who has become a friend or a friend of a friend. And if you want to become a Normal Gossip subscriber and support us and Defector Media,

you can do that at supportnormalgossip.com. Okay, no more business. Time to go. This week on the show, we have Emma Choi. She is a comic writer, journalist, and host of the Weekly Comedy Podcast. Everyone and their mom on NPR. Emma, welcome. How are you?

I'm so excited to be on the podcast. Your podcast is like one of three I actually listened to, including my own. So I'm very excited. Oh my God, that's such a compliment. Thank you so much. Emma, let's start off with the classics. What is your relationship with gossip like? I was raised Catholic, so I was called like Gossip is a huge sin.

And it's like the number one. Exactly. And everyone was like, you got in confession. You got to get up. You know, the gossip. Yeah, I confess the gossip. And I kind of feel like the priest just wanted to know what was going on with the fourth graders. You're in confession, like, father.

I am sorry for saying that Emily is an annoying guy because she... No, like, I was like dishing in the confessional and I'm like, now I'm like, what did I do that? Like, Father Brian didn't need to know that, but yeah, when I was a kid, I was very anti-gossip. But now, like, as an adult, I'm like, I don't even know what gossip is, you know, because there's like the classic shit talking, but like, there's also like, you know, good gossip where it's just like sharing information with your friends. So I don't know.

I don't know what my relationship with gossip is these days. So like, if your friend told you, like, I have some gossip to share, what is your, like, preferred medium for receiving this gossip? Like do you want them to text it to you? Do you want them to call you immediately on the phone? Like what's your ideal scenario to be gossiped with in? Well, I'm in college, so all my friends live in a one mile radius. So like, I guess...

Stop bragging. Sorry about it. Yeah. I mean, so like, that's fun. So I guess like, I would just be like, let's grab dinner. And then because I feel like gossip is like, you kind of just want to eliminate the paper trail. So you just want to meet in person and be like, okay, let's talk.

Yeah. What is that like, like for you? Like how does your body respond when you're gossiping? I think it depends on the gossip because like, I think that if it's like, who's sleeping with who, I'm like, I'm in there. I'm leaning in, you know, I'm taking notes, like I'm invested because love isn't love and it's important. But if it's like, you know, if it's something like nefarious or something like bad having

to one of my friends, like, I go into like student peer counselor mode where I'm like asking the right questions, I'm doing active listening, you know, so yeah, I guess it depends. Yeah. Yes. So something people have, like they've made a really clear distinction when talking on this podcast between liking gossip and being a gossip. Do you like hold this distinction in your head? I guess, I don't know.

I guess I'm, I would identify with the first one because I've never considered myself a gossip. Why? I just like, I just don't really know what gossip is. Like when I go to a party or something, like the first thing I'm looking for is not to like, oh my God, did you hear what Kendall did? It's like to catch up with people, but I do love a juicy morsel. I will say that.

So I guess I like gossip. So where's the line to you between catching up with someone and gossip? I think, I think because for me, gossiping is like giving it and receiving it is not so much gossip to me. I guess, which is a weird thing. Yeah. So you view yourself as like completely in the clear if you're only a sponge absorbing other people's gossip.

Well, if you ask for it, you know, if you're like one of those no-fi ladies in a church hat and you're like, oh my God, like, you know, what have you been, have you heard from Kelsey? Are you dating anyone? Yeah. Then that, that's a gossip. But if I'm like sitting there, I guess I have a lot of really gossipy friends, you know, and in comparison, I'm not a gossip.

So I kind of just absorb, you know. Okay. So you're like an Olympian saying that you're not fast. You're like, I'm not a gossip. Like all my friends do. Maybe I am a gossip. I don't know. I just, I don't know.

I just feel like I haven't heard the word gossip in like a really long time. So I just never really like contextualized, you know, what we talk about as gossip. Tell me what you mean by that. Like you haven't heard about the word gossip in a long time. It's like the term gossip kind of disappeared after like eighth grade. And like, we just don't like, like I used to be like, we're gossiping right now. It's not cool. And now I'm like, I, I don't know.

I just kind of struggled to figure out like a time where like someone gave me juicy gossip, you know, where I think it's just like, oh, I found out that like, you know, Declan is sleeping with like Paul and that's weird because there's such different heights. You know. Yeah. That's interesting though that you say that you feel like the term disappeared. Like I wonder if that's a cultural thing or if it's just the circles you're in. Do you have any?

Yeah, I suspect it's a Gen Z thing, you know, because I think they were the first, first generation to grow up with like therapy buzzwords, you know, like I'm processing this right now. Can I process this out loud with you? And that, that's just gossip. Right. It's not gossip. If it's a whisper network, it's not gossip.

Exactly. You're doing trauma processing. Yeah. Like I've heard that so much. Like I'm, you're gaslighting me. Like I need to process this out loud. And I'm like, girl, you shouldn't be telling me this. Like you're like, girl, you can't process someone else sleeping with someone else out

right now. That's just gossiping. Yeah. That's really interesting though. Do you have any, like have you had any friends that have had like bad boy friends that you didn't like? Any feelings on this? Yes.

Say more. Please. Yeah. It's like, I come, my friend group is always like, kind of like, like nerdy girls with a lot of like, who like really love little women, you know? So we always choose like the worst guys, you know? So like, my friends only recently hooking up and dating nice boys, but like, oh my God, especially like my gay friends, my lesbian friends, like choose them with the worst woman

on the earth. And I'm like, I thought woman was supposed to be better, you know? But no, it's tough watching people go through that. Players come in every form. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's funny that you mentioned little woman. I think you're, I think you're going to really like where we're going today.

Are you feeling ready? Do you want to get into it? Do some gossip? Yeah, let me have it. So today's story is about the epic highs and lows of high school love. What's happening? I'm in it. I'm in it.

Okay. Okay. We are journeying many years into the past. We are zooming into the lush green backdrop of the Pacific Northwest. The trees very tall, the sky full of clouds. The city where our main character, Hannah, lives with her family is like a tech hub. It has lots of shiny buildings downtown and Hannah and her family live in like a neighborhood a little north and west.

Okay. Okay. She does a lot like my cousin Hannah, but I hope it's not her. No. Wow. Yeah. I also hope it's not your cousin. Yeah.

Because things are not going to go well for her. Yeah. Hannah is the only kid at home right now. Right. Like all her older siblings have graduated and moved away. So she has like a little bit more freedom than other girls her age because like her parents aren't paying attention to her. Does this, do you identify with this at all?

Is this the opposite of your high school experience? How do you feel about this? It sounds familiar. I got a younger brother, older sister, so I get, you know, being home alone. Sure. Okay. So one thing Hannah knows about herself because her older sister, Rachel, will never shut up about it.

Uh-oh. Is that she is an absolutely hopeless romantic. Okay. We're talking 2007 Pride and Prejudice, Mr. Darcy Handflinch, romantic. We're talking Watches Notting Hill when she's sick, romantic. We're talking about the kind of girl who draws hearts on her notebooks, the kind with like a wedding Pinterest board she's addicted to, the kind who dreams of like big gestures and big proclamations and big love.

Oh, something's going to go so wrong. Oh, God. How do you feel about this? Do you think it is? Yeah, go. It sounds like me in high school, you know, like that, and I got my heart broken so many times. So I'm ready to sink into this story.

All right. Okay. Well, I'm sorry about being a high schooler, which is terrible for everyone. Yeah. Okay. So as a romantic, Hannah has decided that she deserves a date to prom. She's asked her friends and she's like, to any of y'all know anyone who might be a good date for me.

Like I don't need a good boyfriend or someone to fall in love with. I just need a date. So one of her friends sets her up with Liam. Liam is exactly who she was hoping for. He's tall. He has floppy hair. Oh, God. He texts her back instantly.

Okay. Why are you saying, oh, God already? My brother's in high school and they all, I'm so judgy. I'm sorry, but they all have the tip top care that's so floppy and they all look terrible. And also any boy who texts back right away is probably not the kind of guy that is going to restrict you right in high school. But you know what, Hannah, keep, Hannah is going to do what she's going to do is keep going Kelsey.

Okay. He is, to Hannah's delight and surprise, extremely good at the big gesture, right? So like he asks ahead of time for prom for like a fabric sample from her dress so that he can get like a tie to match, right? Okay. He gets a limo to pick them up. He gets her a corsage for her wrist and a bouquet of flowers. He is like all out.

Yeah. That's great. Do you think that our dear baby Hannah will be able to go to prom and enjoy it and then do as she said and let this fantasy go? No. No. Why not? One night of magical romance and then that for a romantic, that's like, you know, try

and crack for the first time. You need more of it. I'm sorry if that's insensitive. No, it's exactly correct. Hannah is like, you know, if it sounds like a rom-com and it looks like a rom-com and it feels like a rom-com, maybe it is a rom-com and maybe Liam is the one for me. Oh baby. Oh good.

Okay. She and Liam immediately begin dating. Like all summer, her friends are like, where are you? Yeah. She's like, oh, I'm with Liam and they're like doing what and she's like, oh, we're just hanging out and they're like, no, it's senior year, hang out with us. And Hannah's like, I promise I will, but I just also want to hang out with Liam. Wait, is she going into senior year or is she just going into senior year?

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So by the fall of the senior year, Hannah and Liam are inseparable, right? Her friends are like, Hannah, you're giving Liam so much attention. He was just supposed to be like some guy you took to prom. And then if you want him to be some summer sling, fine, but like what's happening? Okay.

Hannah explains to them, she's like, no, no, no, the thing is Liam is actually a great boyfriend. Like he's always bringing me little presents. He's like the kind of guy who like plans, why are you making a face? I don't believe in gift giving as a love language. Okay. I don't think it means you're materialistic, but it's fine. Okay.

Sorry. I will be more placid. No, I think that's the right, I think that's the right feeling. Okay. So he's the kind of guy who like plans elaborate dates and like whisks her way to fancy dinner and like plans a big walk, right? He's like this guy and Hannah's like, he's so romantic. And she also tells her friends, she's like, he's just really, really lonely.

Like he doesn't have a ton of friends. He's the only one of his siblings left at home, just like me. His parents are divorced and they got divorced in like a really messy divorce. They were like in and out of court trying to decide alimony for like years and like constantly fighting and now they live in separate, both giant houses in the same fancy neighborhood and Liam has to like commute between their houses. Okay. So they're, she is like, Liam needs me because he doesn't have like time to hang out with

people. Okay. That right there. He needs me. Men's name needs me. That's, that's, that's a bad sign. That's not good. Uh-huh.

Uh, but yeah. Okay. Logging that for later. Disagrees. Hannah is like, this is great. I have a boyfriend who's romantic and likes me and my boyfriend is often in one of his parents' giant houses all by himself. Maybe I can have a boyfriend and I can lose my virginity this summer or this like school

year. Right? So I'm gonna call Hannah. Things do work out for Hannah, but it's like a little harder to pull off than she initially expected. First off, Liam hates his dad. Like absolutely hates his guts. Like Liam's dad is completely unaware of everything.

He meets Hannah several times. It never learns her name. He like doesn't know anything about what's going on with Liam. So Liam like refuses to spend time at his dad's house every time he can help it. Right. Right. Justified. Because it's like hard for them to be alone because Liam's mom is like a little more of

an attentive parent. So she's around. And also her best friend, Jesse is always around. Best friend or quote best friend? We'll just say best friend for now. Jesse is Liam's mom's best friend. He's about a decade younger than Liam's mom. And he and Jesse.

Oh, he. Oh. Sorry. Okay. And he and Liam's mom have been close like ever since the divorce. Jesse like helped her regain her footing. He helped her redecorate her house. He helped her like reemergent to society.

He is like always at Liam's mom's house drinking margaritas and hanging out and Liam. Yeah. Great. Liam tells Hannah. He's like just a heads up. But like Jesse is my mom's like best gay friend, but Jesse is also like closeted still. Like even though he's a full adult, he like works at some law firm. I don't really understand it, but like my mom says that he's just like not comfortable

being out. And so like, don't press him on it. Hannah's like, that sucks. Right. Like it sucks to not feel like you can, you're able to come out. Hannah's also like, but also does it. He have his own apartment. Like, can't he not at Liam's mom's house where we're like trying to make out?

Yeah. Okay. So despite Jesse and Liam's mom, Hannah and Liam do fine time. Like to be alone, teens are crafty, you know, but this means that her friends are seeing her like even less than before, right? She has just disappeared off the face of the earth. Okay. In the fall, Hannah applies to all the same schools as Liam and doesn't tell anyone.

That, I mean, all right. I mean, like, I'm not surprised. I'm disappointed in her, you know, are they good schools? Kind of. Right. Like they're not bad schools, right? Yeah. But like, they're not the schools that she wants to go to.

Oh, girl. Like, yeah, no man is worth your future, especially when you're 17, girl. Okay. All right. Yes. Yeah. So she and Liam both get in to Colorado University at Boulder, right? Right.

Yeah. Good state school. Great. So I'm going to Colorado University. Everyone is stunned. Hannah has like her whole life been a hometown girl, right? Like she's like, I'm never leaving the Pacific Northwest. I love it here.

I want to stay here forever. Okay. So her friends are like, what do you mean you're going to Colorado University? And they like press her on it and she tells them about how Liam cried when she told him how much she wanted to go to Colorado with him. Oh, and male tears are so manipulative. Because they're like, you only get to see me cry when I really mean it. I'm like, shut up.

When you're doing what I want from you. Yeah. Yes. Oh, I hate that. Okay. And she's like, isn't it so romantic? Like we both pressed accept on our like applications at the same time. That's not romantic.

That's like, that makes me cry as a, you know, as a neo girl boss. I hate that. I hate it. Yeah. That is like, everyone is like Hannah, but you love the Pacific Northwest. Like this isn't romantic. This is crazy. And Hannah's like, but I also love Liam.

How are you feeling? I just like, you know, I can't stop it. You know, I'm here listening. I've almost been this girl. I get it, but I, I feel sad for her. And I hope she wakes up. Yeah. You're about to feel worse.

Oh no. So you know how there's a deadline for when you're like, when you have to decide where you're going to college? Yeah. May 1st, right? Yes. So after that deadline, May 2nd, Liam tells her that he has decided to go to the state school 10 miles away instead of going to Colorado University.

Oh no. Oh, that's bad. What does she do? He's like, I know that you were really excited about going to Colorado and I didn't want to sway you away from that passion, but I just like changed my mind and I think it's better for me to stay here. Liam, what the hell? Is this his real name?

Is he actually named Liam? I'm going to Liam my life. Liam anonymized everyone's name. Oh, damn it. Well, ugh. I hate him. Also, he sounds white and that shouldn't, that shouldn't impact my decision about whether not to like him, but oh my God, what is up with him and he says he loves her?

He better not propose, but keep going. When Hannah's older sister, Rachel hears about this whole little shenanigan, she is like lit with the fire of a thousand suns, right? Yeah. She's furious. She's like, you don't see what's happening here. You don't see how he's manipulating you. You're making a huge mistake and also colleges say that you have to decide by May 2, but

there are always ways around things and out of things. You do not have to go to Colorado. You can make a different decision. Yeah. Hannah, receiving this advice from her older sister, digs in her heels and she's like, no, I want to go to Colorado University. I wanted this all along. It doesn't have to do with Liam.

Look, I respect the commitment to the bit, okay? But you got to let it go at a certain point. I agree. Hannah does not let it go. She goes to Colorado University and she lasts one year of long distance and then she moves back to the Pacific Northwest to go to the same school as Liam. So we're like two years in now? We are two years in now.

Oh my God. I've never met a guy who loves doing big gestures, who was not manipulative as hell, you know? Like if you're going to give a rose to a girl, like do it in your car. I don't know. You don't want even 5,000 people watching. All right. Okay.

So they're dating this whole time because she's now like... It's very stressful. Yeah. No, it's good. Because she's now like back in the same city as him, they're just like spending all their time together again. For all of their sophomore year, things are like fine. They live near each other.

Hannah becomes like really close with Liam's mom during this time. Like just like Liam, Liam's mom is like very thoughtful and very communicative. She's always giving Hannah like little gifts. They like text all the time. They're like really close. Hannah is always at Liam's mom's house, even sometimes like if Liam isn't there. Okay. So she spends a lot of time with Liam's mom and with Jesse, who is also always there.

All summer, she and Liam are just like hanging out at his mom's house with his mom and Jesse. Okay. This is the summer between sophomore and junior year. How are we feeling at this point? I mean, like the relationship between a romantic girl and her boyfriend's mom is very special, right? Like me and my boyfriend's mom are very close. Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, which is nice, but there's a limit, right? And Liam has not shown me that he deserves this level of love. So I worry for Hannah and I worry that it's getting worse. Oh boy is it. Yeah. So far this is not, this is not juicy. This is just a terrifying thing. So now we're in the fall of their junior year of college.

Yeah, I'm a junior. I feel it. Liam is getting like really downtrodden. He's like not his usual self. He's like not doing any of his grand gestures or planning dates. He's like barely communicating at all. Hannah like presses him on it and he explains that he just like doesn't feel like what he's learning in school is equipping him for the career that he wants.

Okay. And he's like, which is an understandable thing to be upset about. Yeah. He's like, all I want is to be a filmmaker. Like I'm studying film in school, but all they're doing is like artsy fartsy one act atmospheric movies. And like, I don't want to do that. Liam wants to make slasher fix.

He wants gallons of fake blood. He wants the kind of like scary movie that seeps into your subconscious and makes it impossible for you to look at mirrors ever again. Right. Like he's tired of school. He wants to quit school. He's like, I just want to do my movies. Yeah, I guess that Liam was a filmmaker from the onset.

So boys will do this shit all the time because they've seen all the rom-coms. Yeah. Yeah. And also because like they prefer the girls they see in movies than the ones that exist in real life. You know? All right. Hannah's like, both your parents are rich.

Like why don't you just quit school if you don't want to do it? And Liam's like, no, I can't quit school because my dad said that he'll cut me off if I don't finish my undergrad. Okay. Exactly. And Liam's like, okay, whatever. But in the back of her head, she's like, there has to be a solution here. She's like, what I'll do.

I'll talk to Liam's mom. Oh. What? Oh, and it sounds like it's ramping to something. She's like, Liam's mom knows how to manipulate Liam's dad. Like maybe there's a way out of this for Liam. So Hannah goes over to Liam's mom's house and she's like, what do you think he should like, what do you think he should do?

And Liam's mom is like, well, he can't quit school. Like there's no way around that. His dad is like not going to tolerate it. Like it's just absolutely a non-starter, but he could just start like working on a movie right now. Like he could use the money that his dad is giving him on like a monthly basis to produce his little slasher film if he wants to do that. And like as long as he's passing his classes, nobody is going to say anything.

Yeah. Yeah. Every filmmaker I know has a rich daddy who helps them through it. Like this sounds perfect. Exactly. Exactly. So Hannah's like, great idea. Liam doesn't know how to do anything.

And Liam's mom is like, well, Jesse could help him. Okay. Up until this point, there are only three things that Hannah like really knows about Jesse and they are, he's closeted gay man. He's always at Liam's mom's house and he loves the mama Mia trilogy. So Hannah is like, how is Jesse going to help in this scenario? He seems like he's useless to helping Liam figure out how to do this. I've seen all the mama Mia's.

Okay. Maybe he's worth something. Yeah. Listen, that's the criterion collection for us. That's true. Okay. So his mom is like, yeah, but Jesse like works with a bunch of money people who do the money stuff for a bunch of Hollywood productions.

So like, I bet he can help you. Hannah's like, fine. So the next time she's at Liam's mom's house, she like talks to Jesse and he's like, oh yeah, like Liam can definitely do this. Like these are the steps he would need to take to like make something that could be like submitted to festivals or whatever. Jesse and Hannah like sketch out a plan for how Liam can like make this movie all on his own with like the $5,000 a month or something obscene that his dad is giving him.

Oh my God. All right. I know. Liam begins working on what we will call quote unquote his movie in the winter of his junior year. Okay. The quotes are giving me pause. Can you imagine how this is going to go?

I don't know. Like I just like Liam so much that I assume that he's going to embezzle the money and like get himself Marcus Stewart in. How's he going to embezzle it? It's his own money. I don't know what a pyramid scheme or something. That's a great point. Yeah.

I don't think he's going to use it wisely. Also, I don't, I still don't understand how like, why isn't Liam doing this? Like if Liam wants to be a filmmaker, he's got to be proactive, you know, he has to find his own stuff. Like you can't have your girlfriend doing stuff for you forever. Okay. So Liam is like, Hannah, this is a great idea. I love this idea.

What I'm going to do is I'm going to buy adaption rights to like an already written slasher short story that I can then adapt into a movie. Fine. Whatever. Like he uses his dad's money to buy like all the equipment that he needs to do his little like hobby. Hannah in the meantime is being like the best girlfriend that's ever existed. She's like helping him audition actors.

She's helping him find filming locations. She's like helping edit his script. When Liam decides like randomly one day that it's very important that this movie have a child actor or it will not be complete, Hannah like looks up what kind of legal protections they need and like downloads a contract to like for this kid to sign. Wow. It seems like this is Hannah's movie. It does.

That's why I use the quotes because it's like it's Hannah's movie. It is chaos constantly. Like they do end up filming the movie. Like they're filming, but people are just like quitting at every turn. Right. Like a producer quits, makeup artists are quitting, the child star quits. They're all just like quitting because this is a disorganized mess like run by this like 21 year old who just like does not seem to know what he's doing or care.

Hannah is working like all the time to try and make this work. They have like hours and hours of footage, tons of material. Liam keeps being like, no, we need to shoot this other scene. No, I need like this from another angle. Like we need to reshoot this detail. I need to spend like oodles of money so that we can get this like one blood streak right. What do you think that Hannah should do? I mean, what do I think she should do?

I think she should leave him forever and, you know, spill blood in his face. But what do I think she's going to do? You know, I think she's going to be like, sure, Liam, whatever you say. What Hannah does is complain to Liam's mom about how tired she is. OK, and while she's like complaining, you know, this like giant kitchen island, this huge house. Nancy Meyers, yeah. Yes, Jesse, who's also there, is like, what is Liam even doing? Like it sounds like you're doing a lot.

And Hannah is like, he's doing things. And Jesse is like, OK, what? And Hannah is like, I make him to do lists like plus he's editing the movie. He's like in his room for hours editing the movie every day. And Jesse is like, OK, it sounds to me like maybe he's just trying to shoot more scenes because he's afraid of like finishing the project. Maybe you could talk to him about that. Yeah, I mean, I guess like I still don't know why Jesse's here.

You know, no one does. Yeah, like, thanks, Jesse. Mama, me, I serve. And like, I just like. Yeah, I think I think, you know, Liam should go to a therapist. But I guess, you know, the next best thing is your girlfriend question mark. So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I guess go talk to him, see what's see what's going on.

OK, so Hannah does go talk to him. Hannah goes to Liam and she's like, I really think that you have plenty of material, I think like maybe you're just afraid. I also think that this has like the potential to be good. And frankly, like I'm also trying to graduate from college. So we are now in our senior year and I like cannot keep doing your movie all the time. Liam's like, you're totally right. I'm dragging my feet.

Thank you for pushing me. Like, thank you for helping me so much. I'm sorry. He's like, I got you this present. The present he has gotten. Hannah is a beautiful diamond necklace. She loves it. She's so happy.

Where to get the money for that? Great question. Yeah. For months, Liam is like editing his movie in his room, right? He like, won't let anyone see it. He's being a perfectionist. Hannah is like, doesn't really understand this. She's like, art probably needs like space to get good or whatever.

I love Hannah. Right before Christmas. Liam comes to her and it's like, hey, I'm so sorry for the late notice. But like, do you happen to be free on Christmas Eve? And Hannah's like, yeah, because her family like doesn't celebrate Christmas Eve. So she's like, yeah, I don't have anything to do. And Liam's like, would you be willing to come with me to dinner with my family? And Hannah's like, yeah, of course I eat meals with your mom all the time.

Like, I don't give a shit. And Liam is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. My dad has gotten this ballistic idea that it would be good for all of us to have dinner together. Oh, and Hannah's like, why? Yeah. Why? Liam is like, I don't know why, but he has made it very clear that we are all to be there. So like, I'm basically begging you as my girlfriend of four years to like,

please come to this terrible dinner with me. Yeah, it sounds like he's going to do an intervention or like expose him in a three point PowerPoint, you know, but I don't know. Hannah's like, this sounds like it's going to suck. But like, I don't have plans. You're asking me really nicely to go like, I'll go. They arrive at this Christmas Eve dinner and it is like capital F fancy, right? Like, I'm talking about like the name of the restaurant is just like

etched in cursive into a like tiny copper plate, right? Yeah, I get you. Sign. Yeah. This is a two Michelin starred restaurant, right? Like we're talking like four hundred fifty bucks a plate. We're talking like the food is all colorful foam, right? Like they bring out a course. This is salad.

It's just like four or five cubes of cucumber that are like perfectly seasoned. Right. Yeah. Everything is immaculately prepared. It is fancy. OK. At this dinner, we have Hannah and Liam. Liam's mom, Liam's two older brothers and their wives. OK. Liam's dad and Liam's dad's hot new wife. He got remarried already.

Wait, I guess it's been a long time. OK, sure. Yeah. Milk holder. Yeah. Yes. Liam's dad's hot new wife is in sufferable. She's like maybe 25. Well, she will not stop talking. Hannah is just like guzzling wine, right? She's like, I'm miserable.

There are so many bottles of wine. Like this place is so expensive. There's not even like a wine list, right? Like Liam's dad just preordered a bunch of bottles of wine that now they're just refilling her glass like a wedding. Oh, OK. Liam's dad's hot new wife is like only drinking gimless, right? And she's like pounding them.

Everyone is trying to have a good time, but the tension is just like palpable, right? Hannah is like trying to talk to Liam's brother's wives and they're just like not having it. Like no one is biting. Everyone seems to have this like silent shroud over them. And Hannah like leans over to Liam and she's like, why is this so weird?

Like, why is everyone being so quiet? Isn't this supposed to be like fun? Isn't it supposed to be a celebration? And Liam's like, this is my dad's version of celebration. OK. And Hannah's like, well, it sucks. Yeah, she's like looking around. There's like a window where you can see the chefs, you know? And the chefs are like using little tweezers

to place like individual tiny coils of women onto like perfectly rolled gelato. Yeah, I love that shit. Hannah's like, fuck yeah, gelato. I love it here. She's like, honestly, the dinner, the atmosphere is terrible, but the dinner is great. Yeah.

So she's like staring through the chef window for the gelato, right? She's just like waiting for it to be brought to her. And while she's staring there, like tuning out this conversation that Liam's dad is having, walking from another room in the restaurant, she sees Jesse and some guy. OK. And she's like, Jesse, hey. And Jesse comes over and like kisses her on the cheek and is like, it's so good to see you.

This is Eric. Hannah's like, hello, Eric. I've never like heard your name in my life, but nice to meet you. But she can't really like focus on him, right? Liam's like shaking Eric's hand. Jesse's like, OK, so good to see you all. Have a great dinner. Bye. And he leaves and Hannah is like, why didn't he say hi to Liam's mom?

Oh, that's weird. Like he came up to this table. He kissed me on the cheek. He introduced me to Eric. He said hi to Liam, did not say a word to Liam's mom. And they're supposedly on good terms, right? Yes. Yeah, that's weird. That's really weird.

Yes. It gets weirder. The minute Jesse leaves, right, like he's out of earshot, Liam's dad turns to Hannah and is like, who's your friend? Hannah is like, that's Jesse. He's not really my friend. He's Liam's mom's friend. But like we are also friends, I guess, or whatever. And Liam's dad turns to Liam's mom and is like, who is that?

Every single child is staring directly at the plate in front of them. Both of Liam's wives are, like, anxiously swirling the wine around their glass. Both of Liam's brothers. Brothers wives are Wes. Both of Liam's brothers wives are, like, swirling the wine around in their glass. Liam is like picking a cuticle. Right. Everyone is like stress.

Yeah. Hannah is just, like, filled with dread. And Liam's mom is like, Oh, Jesse is just a friend. And Liam's dad is like, what do you mean he's just a friend? And Liam's mom is like, Jesus Christ, Mark, like he's gay, he's my friend, I'm allowed to have friends, your like hot young wife is right here. Yeah, Hannah is like in shock because she's like, one, isn't he closeted?

Like, should she be saying this in a restaurant? Seems like no to me. Two, what is happening? Like, why are we doing this? No one says anything for the rest of the dinner. Everyone is just like silent. They just have dessert left. But still, Hannah feels like she ruined dinner, right?

Because she's like, did I make some kind of fatal error? Like it seems like I made one. Like after the dinner, what do you think Hannah should do? I guess like I take Liam aside and I'm like, yo, that was crazy, right? You know, and like get anything. And then like if I, maybe I talked to Liam's mom and I'm like, hey, like, what was that?

Yes, you have entered the Hannah Mine Palace. Yeah, yeah. She does. This is really weird. I don't like it. I'm feeling bad. She's like, is it cool with you if I go like, say I'm sorry to your mom?

And Liam's like, yeah, of course. So she goes and talks to Liam's mom and she's like, I'm so sorry. Like I would not have said hi to him if I knew that like we weren't supposed to. And Liam's mom is like, it's fine. Liam's dad goes off about everything. Like it'll die down.

Okay. It does not die down. At Hannah and Liam's graduation in May, Liam's dad explicitly is like, Hannah, what's up with your friend, Jesse? And Hannah's like, I don't know what is up with Jesse because he's not my friend. And also it is my graduation.

Yeah. Hannah is also really stressed because Liam has asked her to move to Los Angeles with him so that he can pursue his dream of becoming a filmmaker. This means that five years after dating, she could actually live with him. Why are you making that face? Because like it's just like, don't do it Hannah.

You know, like so many, like I'm 100% sure by now that this is a white family because a Korean family would not do this, right? I guess it's not a Korean family. But just like, you know, like go to LA because you want to go to LA. But also like LA is such an isolating place if you don't know anybody.

And also this could be a thousand asshole for filmmakers anywhere you go. And also you have on lift together. That seems interesting for how intense you are together. And also what's with that diamond necklace, Hannah? I'm interested in that. So yeah, a lot of pieces in the air for me right now, Kelsey. Okay, Hannah is like, I really want to go to LA with him, right?

Like I love him. Of course she does, right? Of course she wants to go to LA. But Hannah does feel like a little bit of like a question mark in her heart in that she is like, the last time I did this, he did not come to college with me and he stayed in the Pacific Northwest.

And she's like, and also I know that I want to be in the Pacific Northwest long-term. Like I know that I want to live here and like have kids here and like this is where I want my future to be. She's like, so I'm feeling a little bit of hesitation about this. She also has another hesitation, which is that after graduation,

Liam finally showed her his film. It was bad. And it was unwatchable. He ended it down to two and a half hours. No. Even though Hannah like edited the script and was there for all of filming, she like could not follow the plot of it.

Like half the shots are out of focus. The fake blood like looks clumpy on the screen. The whole thing is like shot so dark that you can't see anyone's facial expressions. The child star that she like worked so hard to get has been completely cut from the film. Oh my God. But at the end, in the credits,

he was like, thank you so much to Hannah for all of her help. And she's listed for all the things that she did, which Hannah finds very romantic. That's the bare minimum. That's not romantic. That's just contractual ovulation. So these are Hannah's hesitations about moving to LA.

She's like, last time you abandoned me, I know that long-term I wanna be in the Pacific Northwest. And also it seems like you might be bad at making films. I mean, I'm joyful because I really wanted him to be bad at making movies. You cursed him? Yeah, I cursed him. I do not like this man.

But I get it. Like it's hard because like if you love somebody, but you know, your brain and your heart and your gut are all telling you different things and it's a hard decision. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So Hannah's like, you know what?

I don't know a ton about film. Like maybe I just don't get it. She's like, it's not for me to decide whether Liam can work in Hollywood. That is for someone else to decide. She's like, the only thing I need to decide is like whether or not I wanna move to LA. Like you said, right?

Yeah. Like, is this something I wanna do? Because it's graduation, her sister, Rachel, is in town. Rachel is like, you need to set some fucking ground rules. You need to stand up for yourself. Yeah. Hannah, because she's impressionable, does. On her next fancy date with Liam,

she's like, here's the deal. I will move to LA with you for your career, but you have to promise me three things. One, you will sell your Mustang and get a big car and we can like road trip down route one together, right? So I get like a cute vacation. I like that. Two, when we get there, I get to get a dog

and you will find us an apartment that allows dogs. Okay, yeah. Three, you get five years and then I get to decide where we live. I love it. Yeah, I think that's, I wish you would said more, but I think that's a good start for someone who seems like they have never done that

in their life. So. Exactly. She said one boundary and we're proud of her for that. Yeah, we're just sad. But you know what, Hannah, you're really good for you. Okay, so Liam, to his credit, agrees to this. He's like, that all seems really fair.

He like finds them an apartment that like allows dogs of any size. He promises her five years, but the day they're going to drive down route one, Liam pulls up in front of Hannah's apartment in a Ferrari, like a little two seater, like zoomy thing. Okay. I'm speechless.

I'm so angry at Liam. This is obviously a problem because Hannah has all of her shit that she like needs to take to LA. And like Ferraris famously do not have a lot of space in them. Wasn't that rule number one too? Yes. So Hannah is like-

Yeah, that was the first rule. Hannah is like, I said you needed to get a car for us to drive to LA. And Liam is like, yeah, you said I needed to get a car for our road trip. Like this is a convertible. It's going to be great on route one. And Hannah's like, I meant like a van.

I said big car. And Liam's like, but vans suck. And Hannah's like, okay, but like I have all this shit and we're moving to LA and I have no way to get it there. And Liam's like, oh, well, like my mom is like putting all of my stuff in a truck that movers are going to bring. So you can just like put your stuff,

you can just take it to her house and we'll put it in the same truck. It's like the rich boy mindset will never fail to amaze me. Because like, yeah, I can get in his head and follow the crazy line of logic he got there. But Hannah, you got it. He broke rule one. This is when you break up with him.

Rule one, exactly. I feel the same way, but Hannah does not feel this way, of course. Hannah pairs down her stuff. She like drives it over to Liam's mom's house. When she gets there, Jesse is there. Hannah's like, this is weird. I didn't see his car out front.

Like I usually do. She's like, oh, hey, I'm just like dropping some stuff off. I was hoping you could like add them to the moving truck or whatever. Liam's mom is like, yeah, obviously, no problem. Of course we'll do that. But she's like popping her knuckles the whole time. And Jesse is like rubbing his temple

with his pointer finger and middle finger. He's like bent over the counter. Hannah's like, is everything okay in here? And they're both like, you don't need to worry about it, sweetie, like good to see you. Text us from the road. Bye. Okay.

Hannah's like, OK. Do you think that she should ask Liam about this? Like, what do you think she should do at this point besides break up with him when she's clearly not going to do? Yeah, I mean, she's already ignored all of my advice. So I don't know. But I was kind of raised at like adults are not your friends. They're just like cool people you look up to.

So I probably wouldn't mention it. But I feel like she's going to. Hannah is like, it's probably nothing. OK. Right? She's like, I'm just going to try and put it out of my mind. She's like, you know what? Now I'm in this convertible.

We can't talk anyway because it's so loud. I'm just going to try and enjoy this drive down route one. Is he leasing this or is this like he bought this? Oh, he bought it. He bought it with graduation money. What a terrible investment. It's only going to depreciate. And you should have put that into like an IRA account.

But it's fine. Rich people don't need IRA accounts. They have so much money. This is my mom talking through me. OK. So they're having a good time. They're like on their little drive. But around day two, Hannah's like, you know what?

I just like really can't let this go. Like it's like I it's stuck in my head. Like how weird they were being. And she's like, you know, I think I do need to tell Liam. So she tells Liam about it. And Liam's like, you know what, that is weird. But like their adults, we're trying to have a nice road trip. Like we'll call her in a few days

and find out what's going on. OK. Hannah's like, great. Seems fair. They arrive in Los Angeles. For a few days, they're just like unpacking things, right? They're like putting up their furniture. They're like going to local shops to buy plants.

They pick up a dog that like Liam promised them. And it's like an adorable grumpy Chihuahua that they named tuna fish. Best part of the story so far. I love it. We love tuna fish. Yes. After a few days, Liam's like, OK, we're like settled in.

I'm going to call my mom on FaceTime, right? Like show her the apartment, like see how she's doing. So he goes into the room to talk to his mom, and he comes back like very upset. And Hannah's like, what's up? Liam's like, my dad is suing my mom. What? Yeah.

Apparently, what happened is Liam's dad hired a private investigator to follow Jesse around the city. And even though the private investigator found no evidence, Liam's dad became convinced that Jesse was in a relationship with Liam's mom. Well, why is that so worthy? Because apparently, according to their divorce settlement, Liam's mom is not allowed to date anyone for 15 years.

Oh, 15 years? 15 years. Oh, this man's a monster. Oh, my gosh. And she agreed to that? Why would you agree to that? Money. She agreed to it for money.

So now, Liam's dad is suing her and threatening to pull the money that they agreed to in their divorce settlement because she has broken the terms by, quote, unquote, dating Jesse. I'm sorry, I'm still talking about 15 years part. That is such a long time. 15 years. Oh, my god.

Oh, that was the first part. That makes a lot of sense to me now. Like, knowing his father, I understand Liam a lot more. That sucks. Because Liam sucks. Like, Liam is like a male manipulator. He is a bad filmmaker who thinks he's really good. And he's just privileged in every single way.

And I get it because boys learn from, I mean, all kids learn from their fathers. And they're always one degree nicer than their dads. And this dad is a monster, you know? Like, Liam makes sense to me now. Yes. Liam's dad has told his mom, apparently, if you want me to drop this case,

then Jesse needs to come out publicly. Oh, that's terrible. It's awful. Hannah is like, this is so fucked up. I don't know what to do with this information. Liam is, like, furious. Like, he's madder than Hannah has ever seen him. And he's like, this is fucked up.

You do not make someone, you do not ruin someone's life for your stupid little divorce games. This is not about her mom. It's only about money. He's like, Hannah, I'm so sorry. I know we found this nice apartment, but I just do not think I can accept money from my father anymore.

He's like, I don't know how I could live with myself if I'm taking money from that guy who's holding it over people's heads and trying to ruin their lives for no reason. It means that our life is going to be a little harder for a bit, but I think that that's what we need to do. Yeah, I agree. Great.

Hannah is also like, that seems absolutely correct to me. So they stopped taking Liam's dad's money. The problem, though, is that Hannah has a job doing social media for some brand, which is fine, but it pays like $40K a year, and Liam is not working. Yeah, I figured. So now they are not accepting money from Liam's dad, and they are living in an apartment that they bought,

assuming that they would have Liam's dad's money. Oh, they bought it? Or they didn't buy it, excuse me. They're renting an apartment that they assumed. Yes. OK, so they move. They move to a smaller apartment. Still, Hannah's 40K salary is not

enough money to support them in Los Angeles. And Liam has rich people brainworms, so he doesn't understand that he can't just spend money the same way he's always been spending money. So he keeps getting her gifts and getting them take out. And Hannah's all this shit used to be really romantic. It is much less romantic now that it's making us financially precarious.

Yeah, yeah. What do you think Hannah should do? She'll check in. I think she should have broken up with him six years ago. That's what I think. But she didn't do that. I think she should get them both budgeting apps and make them watch a couple of documentaries

and be like, do you want to be like this? But yeah, that's what I would do. I don't know. Hannah is like, yes, I'm getting his budgeting apps. I'm going to teach you how to think about money. Also, she's like, this guy isn't going to get himself a job, but I could get him one. Girl, I think part of why I'm so mad

is I see Hannah as a Darth version of myself, because I get it, but I also stop. Stop doing that. That's what's hard is she means so well. Of course, and she has so much love in her heart, but she's giving it to the wrong person. Exactly. There are people who could generously accept this

and fill her back up. Absolutely. And Liam does not seem to be one of them. But Hannah is extremely competent. And so she makes him a resume, writes him a cover letter, does not link to a film that he made, and submits him for a job. OK, Liam gets it.

Wow. Great job, Hannah. But it's for a PA job, which means he's just on set 24-7. He's exhausted. He's doing the kind of work that just sucks. You're getting people's coffee, cleaning stuff up. He's not making movies. He's just doing chores for people who are making movies.

And he's like, this sucks. And Hannah's like, I'm proud of you. This is for the first time in our relationship. You're working really hard. And she's like, that's great. I'm super proud of you. Things are going better. They're feeling good for a few months.

Except Hannah makes her first friend in Los Angeles. And she's a friend. This is essentially her first friend since high school, because she has just been head over heels in Liam's land. Her friend is also a production assistant. And her friend is much more available than Liam is. Huh, OK. So she's like, it's so weird that my friend is always

available for dinner, but Liam is never home for dinner. Then maybe he's just working hard. Do they have either the same studio? Yes. Oh, OK, that's really weird. The overlap is, it's weird. Yeah, that is weird. Is he cheating on her?

So she has a sneaking suspicion that he might be. Right. What do you think she should confront him? What do you do in this scenario? Well, you do the classic mind games of asking him conflicting questions. You track his location. You sock his followers.

You talk to his friends. I haven't done this before, but this is what I would do. So Hannah does the classic privacy invasion, and she just goes through his phone. Yeah, sure. OK. Going through someone's phone is always a dangerous game. What do you think she finds?

Is Jesse selling him diamonds? I'm still something in the diamond necklace, Kelsey. Some part of me thinks it's something from his dad or something, I don't know. No, so she only finds that he's deeming lots of girls. Oh, my god. It is like, none of it is clear that he's cheating, but it's also like he's cheating.

Yeah, that's weird. There's no evidence, but it's enough. It's just enough to feel that pit in your stomach. And Hannah is like, I'm going to be sick. She's like, I have uprooted my life and moved to Los Angeles. She's like, I have helped this guy get everything he's ever wanted. She sees her diamond necklace in the mirror

and is like, I hate this thing. Like, it's like making me cry. She takes it off. She's like, this is not the rom-com I asked for. This is not the rom-com I wanted. Like, I need more than this. Yeah. Finally, Hannah is like, it is time to break up with Liam.

Oh, my god. Finally. Oh, my god. She's like, I cannot do this anymore. Yeah, I'm so sad for her, because poor girl. I wish she had found out Younger and had time to meet other guys in college. And I wish he was a different man.

But I'm not even that proud of her, because this is the last low rung of the bar. You waited to the last possible thing. I'm proud of her because I think sometimes you just have to go through terrible things. That's true. Yeah, I get that. It sucks, but sometimes that happens to you.

But she did it, right? Did she go through it? Yeah. She goes through it. She breaks up with him. Good. She talks to Liam, and she's like, I'm not happy here. I don't think that you're really happy either.

And Liam's like, yeah, I'm not really happy either. And she's like, I'm glad that we have this relationship, but I got to go. So after six years, Liam and Hannah broke up. Hannah kept tuna fish. Good. She should. Her little chihuahua.

Hannah went to med school. She's a new boyfriend that she met in a meet cute, and they are very happy together, even though he does far fewer grand gestures. That's great. Oh my gosh. I'm hearing Kelly Carson's stronger in the background. Everything's got a rose glow, and I

hope she becomes a great doctor. That's awesome. But what about him? Who do you think is the villain of our story? I mean, the clear one is probably his dad, right? He's the most evil one to me. So you don't think it's Liam? I think of the relationship, it's definitely Liam.

In the broader story, I think that you can forgive a 17-year-old for a lot of stuff that you can't forgive a 42-year-old. So I don't know. Yeah. Would you like to hear the final update? Yes, I would. OK, so Hannah ran into Liam recently

when they were both in the Pacific Northwest. It's been years since they broke up. Are they like their late 20s now? Yeah. Now they're in their late 20s. It's been years since they broke up. She was happy to see him. They hugged.

They were like, we should get coffee and ketchup. We haven't talked at all. And he told her that Jesse was never gay. I knew it. I knew it. That sucks. His mom had been pulling a con for a decade on all of them so that she could ignore her divorce settlement.

Yeah. I mean, OK. You know, I think I'm going to go with like pop-off queen. Like I think that's a good job, right? But someone hits you with that 15-year no dating policy. I'm going to do a real fuck you to them, right? How does he feel about that? Liam feels bad about it.

But the updates from Liam are that he gave up on filmmaking. Good. Yeah. Which was probably for the best. But he still works like in film-adjacent stuff. And he started going to therapy after he broke up with Hannah. And he is doing much better. OK.

How did he get the money for the diamond necklace? Dad gave it to him. All right. I don't know why I was going to cut up on that. Wait, OK. I just like, I kind of wanted something bad to happen to Liam. You know, like, maybe the bad thing was that he lost Hannah. But like I'm a little unsatisfied because like he was just

like so like like uncaring to her, you know. But I think that's the thing that's hard about these stories is like they're not always satisfying because they are true, right? And so it's like, yeah, there's no like anvil that drops on Liam's head at the end of the third act. But I do think that like the repercussions of like learning that your parents are terrible is rough. And like, I think that he is probably had a hard time with it

because there is a punishment to like having your girlfriend do everything for you for six years and then suddenly being an adult and being alone. And yeah, yeah. Wow, that's crazy. I mean, like Jesse is still confounding me. Like him, him being a part of this is I'm like, OK, wow. I never thought he was gay, right? Because like even I don't know.

I just in my experience, all of my gay friends are way more social than having one friend that's been all their time with, you know. And I'm like, maybe he's fine. He really wants to like, you know, kiss the mom on the mouth, right? Maybe that's what's going on. Yeah. Oh, wow. Interesting. Huh. How are you? How are you feeling? We're done. We made it to the end. Oh, my face is hot.

I feel like I went through that whole thing with you and Hannah. That's that's crazy. I mean, like, yeah, I mean, like I think that like a lot of women can relate to this story because, like, you know, I feel like the conversation has only recently shifted away from like, hey, maybe you shouldn't fix your boyfriend, you know, and like maybe like you should expect him to do the things that you want him to do. You know, yes.

And like I only learned that in the past like year. And like it just like sucks to hear how long she held on to him and did everything for him and like was never even like that appreciated by him for like setting up his life, you know, that that sucks. And I think that's the hard thing, right? Is that like she convinced herself that what romance was was her murdering herself for him. And like that's not what romance is, right?

And she figured that out eventually, but it took her some time. Yeah. Yeah. Like I had that realization, like I had a really bad breakup and I realized that like I used to think like love meant that you put someone beside you at the center of yourself and you carried them around beside you. But then after that breakup, I realized like love is like having like adding another thing tethered to you with a rope, you know, it's another thing you keep close, but it's not something you put at the center of yourself,

you know, because it misaligns you and it misdirects you, you know. And I think it takes a really long time to even think about that. Exactly. And I think especially with someone like this who like idolized relationships and then found herself in one that was good for a little bit of time and then rapidly became not good for her. Yeah. It's hard to get yourself out. I think another lesson we've learned from this is that gift giving is not romantic. It's just me, you're rich, you know.

I really like that you've like come in hot against gifts. I know. No gifts. Which is funny because like I love giving gifts, you know, like I love a thoughtful, thought out gift. Yeah. If someone, if you'd like someone because they're giving you gifts, they're giving you grand gestures, like who am I, Kim Kardashian? You know, like I'm a regular woman, like give me a card, you know, draw me a drawing, give me a hug.

Wow. That's crazy. I'm sorry, Hannah, that you had to go through that. Me too. I'm glad she's, you know, she's going to make, she's going to be a doctor. She's got a boyfriend. She's going to be a doctor. I hope Tone of Fish is still alive, but yeah, that's it. Thank you so much for coming on Normal Gossip. It was a delight to have you. Thank you so, oh man, let me come back anytime. This was so fun. And wow, I'm going to be thinking about this forever.

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 gossip. If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow me on all social media at at McKinney-Kelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujan Laughlin. Defector's Projects Editor is Justin Ellis.

Our Editor-in-Chief is Tom Leigh. Jay Tull is our Production Assistant. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively-owned subscriber-based media company. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and remember, you did not hear this from me.