Normal Gossip - S3 Ep1: Righteous Lesbian Energy with Samantha Irby

Episode Date: September 7, 2022

Welcome to season 3! We're kicking it off with writer and comedian Samantha Irby for a story about a misguided move to the South and a rogue HOA president.  You can support Normal Gossip directly bybuying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs).

Hey, quick favor. We are conducting an audience survey. We'd be really grateful if you could take just a few minutes and answer it. Please visit survey.prx.org slash gossip to take the survey today. That's survey.prx.org slash gossip. Thank you. Do people have hobbies anymore? Like could eat golf? I don't know. Like what do men do? Hi, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. In each episode of this podcast, we bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Today, my guest is Samantha Erby. She's an American comedian, essayist, blogger, and television writer. She is the creator and author of the blog Bitches Gotta Eat. She has many books, but her most recent is called Wow,

No Thank You. Samantha, welcome to the pod. Kelsey, it's the honor of a lifetime to be with you. I'm so happy you're here. Me too. I'm like thrilled for real. How are you doing? How is your day been? It was good. I mostly like thought about, no, I was gonna say I thought about doing this all day. No, it was good. I had to work earlier, which is good. Because when I have a thing to do, I always have that build up of like, you have a thing to do later, you have a thing to do later. So like work took me out of that. And now I'm fresh as a daisy. And now we're doing the thing. My brain's ready to go. Now we're here. Great. Well, can we start with the traditional question? What is your relationship with gossip like? Can I say that gossip is terrifying to me?

Because so I'm like a little bit of a freak. I love low six gossip, for sure. But I'm a little bit of a freak in that I immediately start thinking about like, are they okay? Is that okay? Is that real? Did that turn out okay? And then I spiral into what if that was me? Is this person who's telling me this piece of gossip going to record like mentally record what I say about it to tell the person I'm too mentally ill to know this is called mental illness. No, yeah. It's true. So truly like my god, I like a low stakes like newsletter gossip kind of thing, you know, I like a celebrity gossip kind of thing. Because then it's like, well, even if that didn't turn out great, at least they're like rich enough to deal with it. They'll live. Yeah. Yes. It's

terrible. I like I enjoyed the gossip for two seconds. And then I'm like stress. No, that's a real person. Yeah. Oh, I mean, that's very sympathetic. My brain is a prison. But I promise I will enjoy today's gossip. And if you get stressed, I can reassure you it'll be fine. Okay, good. Good. Do you consider yourself a gossip? I mean, yes, I feel like if you say you're not, you're lying. I like to I mean, I love to hear people's you know, I like to like smugly listen to someone's story and be like, I wouldn't have done that. Right. I'm not a spreader. I'm more of a receiver. I'm like a good listener. And I'm a good although we'll see if I prove this true. I'm a good like rational like responder. Like I don't panic and I don't get like all

bent out of shape. So I feel like people bring things to me like, hey, let me tell you this thing. And I'm like, yes, I would love to hear it. Meanwhile, inside my like the hamster on the wheel inside my brain is totally about me. Are they going to use this against me as my life over? Yes. Yeah, I usually I have to it's so tough to hear gossip about people, you know, that's the real killer. If it's like random gossip, like, hey, this girl who I know from whatever, that's easy. But if they're like, hey, want to hear a thing about somebody you went to high school with, I'm like, man, yes, but also I'm gonna die. Is it just like, is it just like accountability that's making you so stressed out? Like, is it the holding of the secret? Like,

what is it? I think it's the I am, you know, being perceived is very stressful. Yeah, fair. I think I can very easily like project myself into their shoes. Like, I'm a little bit of a catastrophist. Is that a real word? Sure. In that way, where I'm just like, oh, what if that happened to me? And then like, I get I get stressed about it. So I don't know, I cannot delight in other people's pain. I wait, I mean, that makes me sound like I'm being like, oh, I'm so nice. It's not even that it's just like, I just immediately imagine the bad thing happening to me. I like the clarification that you're making right now, which is it's not that I am really just empathetic and care about them. It's that I'm stressed that it could happen to me.

Yes, I have I can't I have to admit that no, I have to be honest that that is where that is where I go. I am empathetic. And I always try to help. Like, I truly am like, you know, if you tell me about some bad thing that happened to someone, I'm like, is there a go fund me for them? Right. I'll I'll contribute to assuage the guilt that I'm caring for listening to their sad tale. But I mean, I'm nice, but mostly I just am putting myself in their shoes and being like, if that happened to me, I would die. Okay, so this is a question I have for you, because I feel like you and I do a fair amount of gossiping. And a question I have for you that is like, not really, it's, I'm going to split some hairs here.

But what is the difference between gossiping and bitching? Now, bitching, I am a master of, okay, so I think of gossip. Okay, for me, gossip is like, this thing, like, can you believe this thing either happened to this person or this person did this thing? That to me is gossip. Bitching is, hey, girl, let me tell you what this asshole did to me and how I feel about it and why I want to kill them and why nothing good should ever happen to them or any family for the rest of their lives. Now that I could do every day, all day for the rest of my life, like list my grievances with people who have wronged me. Enemies. That I don't consider gossip. Like, if it's about me, it's just a fact.

If I'm the one talking shit, it's not gossip. Yeah, correct. Okay. And I say that when it involves me and I, oh, you know, I'm the queen. I mean, you obviously know, you have a text message inbox full of it where I'm like, guess what the fuck so-and-so did to me. It's like, I know it's true because I'm saying it. I mean, you're obviously getting the biased version and maybe if you ask the other person how it went down, they might give you a different explanation. But gossip is like, hey, I heard about this thing that these people over here got into and I'm telling you about it. I don't love doing that, especially because like,

I don't know if it's true and I don't want to, you know, be spreading misinformation. But if something happens to me, oh, I'll tell all of it to anyone who will listen. I'm like, hey, are you bored? Want to hear about somebody who made me mad? Great. One thing I do really like texting with you because I feel like we'll be texting normally and then at some point it just switches into voice memos and then we're both just screening, right? And it's like, I'm not ever really sure what it is that like causes that tipping point to approach. But I like it when we're over there. Yes, me too. It's like my thumbs can do a lot of work. But then when I need to go off, I'm like, oh no, you're about to get a two minute, 27 second

voice note about this. Hopefully you have the space in your day to listen to it. Always have the space in my day for bitching. There's something that you said earlier that I want to go back to. You said that when it happens to you, it's always true, right? Like, it's, I know it's true because it happened to me. How important do you think truth is in gossiping? Like both to your enjoyment and to its distribution? Well, I think it's pretty important only because if it comes back to me, right? Because here's a thing is like, the thing about gossiping is inevitably somebody's going to say that you said it. And depending on how confrontational the people involved happen to be, they might come back

to you. And I mean, I would sweat myself into a puddle on the floor if someone came back to me with something I said that I knew was untrue. Sure. If I said it and it was true, then I can fight back. Yeah, that's a them problem. Yeah. Then it's like, well, I know it made you look like shit, but you did it. Yeah. I like to be as unassailable as possible. You're really playing the best offense as a good defense. Yeah. Yeah. Kelsey, apologizing is so hard. It's really hard. In general. But when I mean, I need to make sure I really am apologizing for something I really messed up. You know, I can't be out here throwing around. I'm sorry. Yeah. All willy-nilly. I need to be able to be like, no, I am sorry. I knew that was false. And I said it. I love how I'm pretending

to be so ethical. I think you're pretending to be ethical. I think you're just saying what your own parameters are. Yes, I'm pretty ethical. I just, you know, I have been confronted not a whole lot, but the few times I have been, I like to know that I like at least have the truth on my side. Yeah, at least fucking safe. If I behaved badly, that I have to reckon with. But at the very least, if it's true, then I feel like, you know, it's not so bad. Yeah, I think that's a great point. Well, Sam, are you ready to do some gossip? I'm so ready. I'm nervous, but I'm ready. Our story today comes from a friend of a friend who knows this girl, Franny. Franny, absolute delight, like hooting a holler. She's got the kind of laugh that like ripples through a room.

And all growing up, Franny's best friend was this guy, Devin. At first, they were just friends because like their dads worked together, but their whole childhood, all they did was talk about how when they grew up, Devin was going to take over his dad's roofing company and Franny was going to grow up and take over her dad's contracting company. Oh my god, that's so sweet. I know. They're like, we're going to be best friends forever. We'll work like our dads do. Everything's going to be great. Devin, also great. So of course, in the like small southern city where they grew up, their whole life, people were like trying to pair Devin and Franny off. They're like, you two are so cute together. You'd have beautiful kids, which kind of a gross thing to say to two teens.

Can I tell you though, the older you get, the more you feel yourself thinking that kind of thing. The more you are drifting into, you two are so cute. Yes, it's disgusting, but it just happens. Like you lose your eggs and you start trying to pair off teens. Okay, so at the end of high school, Devin goes off to like a big west coastal state school and Franny goes to Tulane, which is like a great school, but it's an hour from the city where they both grew up and a whole prairie away from Devin. So everyone is like gossiping up a storm because they're like, oh my god, these two kids who are best friends are so far away from each other. How are they going to manage? They talk on the phone every day. That's how they manage.

But then senior year of college, Devin comes home from school and who does he bring with him, but his adorable girlfriend, Courtney. Oh no. After Christmas, Devin's parents cannot stop talking about Courtney. They're like, we love her. She's an angel. She has a great sense of humor. She hates the University of Alabama football team, even though she grew up in North Dakota. Can you believe that? She's a treat. One day in May, Franny is just minding her own damn business at the grocery store fresh off of graduation from Tulane. She's in a great mood because she just heard from Devin and guess what? He's moving back. He's graduated from college just like she did, and some nosy deli in the grocery store comes up to her and is like,

I am so glad to hear that Devin is moving back soon. Maybe you two can finally be together. That's too much. Not in the grocery store, please. But it's 2010 now. Franny is an adult. She's graduated from college. She's sick of this shit. Franny's like, ma'am, I am a lesbian. Plot twist. Hello. My ears are perked up. So that shuts this woman in the grocery store up fast, right? Because she's like, oh, well, one, I don't know what to do with this. Two, that does mean you can't date Devin, right? Like, that's fair. But Franny is thrilled because she's like, my best friend is moving home. Our plans to take over our dad's business might actually become real things that we do as an adult.

This is great. And now that she's accidentally come out in the grocery store to this nosy deli, she doesn't have to like tell anyone else. This woman's going to tell everyone for her. Yes, the beauty of a small town. Exactly. Okay. So Devin moves home, but his girlfriend, Courtney, doesn't graduate until like the next fall semester. So all summer and fall, Devin like works at his dad's roofing company and travels to see Courtney back and forth at school. Franny and Devin are meeting for drinks every single week. They're a little bar. They're both thrilled. They're so happy to be together. One night in November though, Devin is like not quite as excited to order his pina colada as he normally is.

And Franny is like, what's happening with you? Like, why are you freaking out? Why are you being so weird? And he's like, you know, I'm just really stressed about Courtney graduating in December. Like it's in four weeks. It's 2010. So like the recession is still kind of bad. Courtney can't find a job. I just feel like she's kind of floundering around. And I just like, I want her to come here and move to Louisiana and live with me. And I'm like, I'm not sure that I'm persuading her. I don't think it's working. I don't think she wants to come. And Franny's like, why don't you think it's working? And Devin's like, well, the thing is when Courtney came here for Christmas, she did not like it.

Apparently, Courtney thought that Louisiana was New Orleans. So Courtney is like culture, party, palm tree, bees. She did not think 100 degree heat, 90% humidity. She did not think strip malls. So her three reasons for not wanting to move to Louisiana are one, I don't want to. Two, I don't have a job there. And three, it's so hot. I mean, I feel that especially when it was like 92 degrees today, Courtney, I am with you. How do you think that Franny should like advise Devin?

I mean, if I'm Franny, I would say, because I'm a deeply practical person, I'd be like, cut your losses. Nothing is worse than trying to convince someone why they should be in a place they don't want to be. So I would be like, okay, bro, cut your losses, find a Louisiana girl who's already acclimated to the heat and won't like complain for the rest of her life about how you ruined her life by making her move and move on. That's what I would say. Does it change your advice to know that Courtney's other option is to move back in with her parents in North Dakota, where in December, it's negative 10 degrees? Here's the thing. I guess this is where you find out I'm a sociopath because

no, I'd be like, that's where you're from. Your mom's there. This clearly isn't going to work if you don't want to be on a roof melting, like 10 months out of the year. I actually don't know how long it's hot in Louisiana, maybe 12 months a year. I would be no, I'm too realistic. The last thing I'd want is for somebody to be telling me why my hometown sucks every single day. So I'd be like, have fun with the potatoes or whatever they have in North Dakota. Talk to you later. Thanks for the memory. So Frannie agrees with you. Frannie is like, do not try to persuade this girl to move to Louisiana. We like where we're from, but she may not like it. Devon does not follow this advice at all. He begs Courtney to move to live with them. He gets another apartment

in a cooler part of town that's closer to Frannie, that's nicer and bigger, and is like, Courtney, look. He's like, if you move here, we can live in this apartment. I can find you a job. We can be happy. And one day we can get a dog and a house and we can have everything we've ever wanted. That sounds so nice and is so sweetly optimistic, but is also not ever going to work. I mean, I don't know where this is going, but like in my heart of hearts, I'm like, that's so romantic, but also no. Courtney sucker moves to the city immediately after graduation. She moves in with Devon. She loves living with Devon, right? She's telling all her friends, she's like, he's great, but I hate the south. She does not like the accents. She does not

like the big oak trees. The tea is too sweet. She goes to the grocery store. She goes to the grocery store to buy chips and the checker is like, oh, chips and dips, you having a party? And Courtney's like, this is my nightmare. She like, cannot even understand when people use bless your heart ironically. Oh, see, now she just, okay, first of all, glad I was right, but also sweet tea and talking to people about chips and dips is like a dream. I agree. Okay. The only thing that Courtney likes are the drive-thru daiquiri shacks. Do you know about these? No, but I want to. Well, I'm going to tell you, so in Louisiana, you can have drive-thru daiquiri shacks where it's like you just go through a drive-thru and you get a daiquiri and like they just hand it to you

in a cup with a straw and the way that they get around like open container laws is just you have to keep that top paper part of the straw on the cup. Incredible. Incredible. You can get whatever flavor you want. It's incredible. Devin, make room for me. I'm on my way. Courtney's like, I like this part. This is the part I like, the drive-thru daiquiris. Yes. But the real problem is that like Courtney's hobby is that she's a runner and not only a sheer runner, she's a distance runner. So when she came to visit at Christmas. Me too. Yeah, same. We love running. Long distances. We know all about that. When she came at Christmas, it was like hot, but not like summer hot, right? So every month that

she's there, it's getting hotter and hotter and hotter. And she just like, she has that like pool of sweat that accumulates under your boobs. You know, she like, she can't run outside. By June, there's like no day that she can be outside running. And she's like checking in with her friends on that running app Strava. And she's like, all my friends are still on the West Coast, like they're running in West Coast weather. Like the only person running less than her is her friend who had ACL surgery. She's like, this sucks. She's like, it's too hot. I can't get a job that I like. She's like working at one of those boutiques that sells like giant plastic neon bubble necklaces. And like, you know, those coasters that are like slices of marble, you know, like it's like one of those

places. And she's like, I'm going to lose my mind. I would love that. It kind of sounds like an asshole, right? Who might just say, okay, no, I know. Let's find out. Okay. Yes. She makes it five months all the way until like late June before she starts to begin her campaign to move. Okay. She's like, I want another job. I want to run all year. I want to live somewhere that's not so fucking small. But Devin's like, I cannot move. Like my plan for my life is to take over my dad's roofing business. So he tells Frannie, he's like, I think that she's just like still adjusting. Sweet Devin. Frannie's like, I don't think this girl is adjusting. And Devin is like, she just needs a job. If we can help her find a job, then she can be happy. Can you like help me find a job

for Courtney? Your Frannie, do you think you should help him? No, because if I love my friend, I see the writing on the wall, I see the running on the wall, which is that Courtney is not happy. There's nothing that can make her happy unless they can like block out the sun. There's no way to please this person. And they should cut to the chase and like let her go and just like have their happy Southern lives. So you the thing you forgot about Frannie is that her dream is for them both to inherit these companies and keep working there. And she's afraid that if she doesn't help Courtney get a job, Courtney will leave and then Devin will leave. Oh, right. Okay. So she's like between the two of us and our infinite family connections because we have lived

here forever, we can find this girl a job. So they get Courtney a job with like some big, you know, national corporation and they get her a gym membership where she can run inside. Okay. All right. Love that. Courtney is like traveling twice a month for work. She's feeling a little better. She's like starting to acclimate. She's getting a little better at dressing for the South, right? Okay. Courtney, I'm sorry I doubted you. One week in January, Courtney gets invited to dinner at one of her co-worker's houses. She comes back from dinner and she's like walking up the stairs to her apartment complex and the apartment complex she lives in with Devin is like one of those new build like barely adult apartments. It's like one step up from a dorm,

right? The walls are like made of cardboard. Because she's just been at her friend's house, the starkness of like where she lives and where her coworker lives is just very, very loud. And so she comes in and she's like, Devin, I have figured out how I can be happy here. There is this little neighborhood that I was just in on the north side of town and I love it. Like I did not think I could love anything in Louisiana, but I love this. She's like the neighborhood. It's close to a man-made lake. You can use a boat or you can swim in the lake. The lake has a path around it that's like fancy and you can like walk and jog. There are water fountains everywhere. That sounds amazing. Yeah, there are like a few little like

outdoor neighborhood cats that live there that she can just pet. That's all I would need. And there's a quote unquote drive-through daiquiri bar that's a walk-through on this lake. So she's like, this neighborhood has everything. She comes back and immediately she's like, not only have I found the neighborhood for us, I've found a house. I have found a house we can rent. It's a three bedroom, two bath, 1800 square foot townhouse with hardwood floors and granite countertops for the same amount of rent that we pay for this terrible apartment. Pretty please, can we move to this townhouse? Incredible. What do you think? I, well, first of all, you had me at stray cats. I don't think she said stray, but

stray cats. I would go to the place where the cats are roaming. I don't need a walk-through daiquiri, but I appreciate its existence. I love a marbled counter. I'm okay. I'd be in. If I was Devin and I really loved Courtney and wanted to make it work, I would move. Okay. Devin is also in. His only hesitation is that he really wants to buy a place, because they live in Louisiana. It's 2011, so you still could buy a house. It wasn't insane. And he's a roofer, right? So every once in a while, he gets a snarky comment from a client that's like, how could you even know how to do a roof? You don't have a house. You don't have a roof. Rude. But there's nothing for sale in this neighborhood, right? It is very popular.

The option is to rent. He asks Franny, because Franny's in contracting. He's like, are there ever houses available here? And she's like, no. No. So Devin is like, you know what? Great. We're going to rent this townhouse. I want Courtney to be happy. It's not quite on the lake, but it's like a few blocks away. And here, Courtney begins to like really settle in. They live in the townhouse for three years, very happily. Okay, three years. Courtney gets a book club. Devin and Franny start to actually like line of succession over their family businesses. This is so great. Franny buys a house. This makes Devin very jealous, because he's like, my best friend has bought a house. So he's like always online looking for

houses. And he's like showing them to Courtney. And Courtney's like, I don't like it because I don't want to live this, leave this neighborhood. Like it does not matter what the house is like. Right. It could be a castle. And she's like, no way. Yeah. She's like, the thing is the castle is not in my emotional support neighborhoods, so I cannot live there. But Courtney is like traveling more and more for work because she's like good at her job. So she's like barely even in the townhouse. Franny has this new girlfriend, so she can't hang out with Devin all the time anymore. And the townhouse is like a little far away from where Franny bought her house. So Devin is like, I'm a little lonely. And he's

a man who works with his hands for a living. So he's like, I need to be moving at all times, basically. And he's like, if I owned a house, I could put her around and fix things, but I don't. And so now I'm just lonely and kind of bored. I mean, it would be a waste of time and money, but he could do things in his rental. I mean, why help a landlord? But if you really needed to do stuff with your hands, he could he could fix his rental house. Or he could, I don't know, do people have hobbies anymore? Like, could he golf? I don't know. Like, what do men do? I don't like get a hot. Is Franny his only friend? Like, okay, no, let's be for real. If it was me, I would just, there are so many shows, I would just be like, okay, my girl's gone. So I don't have to listen

to whatever that's happening. I'm living in this place. It's cute. But I can't do anything in it. I really would get like deeply invested in some like nine season television show. Yes, that's what you and I would do because we don't need to be constantly moving. In fact, we prefer to sit. All of my muscles would atrophy every single one happily my brain. Most of all, I'd be like, okay, bye, babe, got a lazy boy. And I would just watch shows and drink daiquiris. Obviously. Devon is like, I am going to get a hobby. And the hobby I'm going to get is a dog. So he picks Courtney up from the airport, they go to the pound. And at the pound is where they find potato. Potato is a beautiful Australian shepherd mix. And she is so overweight. The vet

says that potato is supposed to be 40 pounds. Potato weighs 85 pounds. Oh, no. Oh, potato. So the vet is like, she's healthy, she's happy, but she needs to move more. And so Devon and Courtney are like, got it. And mostly Devon is like, got it because he's the one who's always there. So every night after the sun goes down, they like walk potato around the lake. On the weekends, they like get their little daiquiris and it feels like a little treat. Every day, potato is like feeling better, walking faster. She is not losing weight. Okay, everyone, I can relate potato. Everyone is happy. Courtney's happy because she lives in her townhouse. Potato is happy because she's always walking around the lake. Devon is not happy because Devon still wants to buy a house.

There is like a house shaped hole in his little heart that even the overweight potato cannot fill. What is taunting Devon is this beautiful plot of land on the other side of the lake that has a lot of shoreline and a nice clearing for a house, but no house. So for like six months, they're making this loop around the lake and Devon is just staring at this empty property and becoming more and more resentful. I get it. Yeah, it makes sense. He's mad at Courtney because she won't let him buy a house that he likes. He's mad at this neighborhood. He's mad at everything. He's mad at the dog for still being 80 pounds. Exactly. So one day at drinks, he's like ranting, ranting, ranting about this to Franny and Franny is like, you're being rude. Everyone makes sacrifices,

like you need to grow up. And Devon's like, but I want a house. I have to have a house. He goes on this whole ramp where he's like someone owns that property that's perfect. And it has been there for the three years that I've lived in this neighborhood and no one is building on it. Probably it belongs to the neighbor who lives next door who already has a house. Like, what do they need this land for? It's not fair. I want it. Okay. Now I'm going to preface this by saying I don't know anything about anything, but especially not in this field. If I was Franny and I had a contracting business and this was like my diaper buddy, right? Like my best friend, I would build him a house. Now it might not be on that lake, but I'd be like, listen,

I love you. Like we can, let me find you a plot of land and I'll build it to Courtney's specifications. It's not going to be on the lake, but is that a dumb thing? I mean, yeah, no, that's going to be my answer. I would, I would build my friend a house. That's so nice to you. Somewhere. You're building houses for your friends. Franny's probably like, bitch, shut up. You don't know anything about building a house, but that if this was me and we didn't have like real life rules, I would build him a house and try to make him happy. So Franny, it like, you're right in that Franny is like a woman of action, right? So she's like, she's like not taking this shit. She's like, stop whining, stop being a brat,

like grow up, just go ask if you can buy it. Franny, you may remember contractor. We've been over this. Something that I know about because I am a creepy journalist that Franny also knows about is June, and you may know about this. Do you know about property appraiser, like county records? Nothing about it. Okay. So every county has like property appraisers and you can go to your county's website, sometimes the like county seat, and you can look up the property records and figure out who owns every plot of land. Wow. Okay. That feels dangerous, but okay. It's good to know. So Franny is like, Devin, you know this, like you work in construction. What are you doing? Like go to this account, go to this website, find out who owns it, and go from there. And Devin's

like, damn, you're right. I didn't even think about that. So he goes online, he looks up who owns it, he finds out that the person who owns it has like another address listed where they probably live because there's no house on that property, and he sends them a letter. And he is like, hello, I love your property. I am obsessed with it. We want to live there for the rest of our lives. It's beautiful. We have to have it. Please, can we buy it? I love that. You do? I mean, if you really want something, like asking for it nicely is, I mean, it's nice. It feels like people don't do that anymore. No one writes letters anymore. That's very sweet. The owner of this property falls for it. The owner is like, yes, you may buy the property. Oh my God. A happy story.

I didn't know what the fuck you were going to say. Okay, I'm ready for the bottom to fall out, but please continue. So without the property ever being listed, Devon and Courtney buy this gorgeous lakefront property. And this is where their true troubles begin. Oh my God, of course. So one night Devon and Courtney, they're drinking their little daiquiris, they're walking around the lake. Every night now, they're like walking over to this property that they bought and just looking at it longingly. They're like, wow, our land. It's so beautiful. One night, they're doing this and suddenly a little skinny man comes trotting down the hill toward them.

And he's like, I noticed that you've been walking down here the past few nights. Do you live around here? My stomach. Okay. Are you okay? Yes. I truly am fully sweating. Okay. It's okay. It's okay. When they told Franny about this interaction later, Courtney was like, I knew immediately that this guy was going to be a problem. She's like, he's got not only the southern nosiness, but there's also like a nimbyism vibe. From the first question, Courtney is like, bad. Devon does not pick up on this at all. Devon's like, hello, this is my girlfriend Courtney. We just bought this lot. We're going to build a house here in the next year. So it's so nice to meet you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The skinny man becomes like full body tense. Like he's his eyes narrow. He's like, well, my name is Bernard. I am the HOA president of this neighborhood. And I did not know that this lot was for sale. There's always a Bernard, isn't there? Devon does not take this hint. He is so excited. He is like telling the love story of this property. Right? He's like, I watched it for years. I wrote this love letter. Courtney is like pinching the back of his arm to try and get him to stop. When Devon finally finishes his story, Bernard goes, well, when you decide to sell it, just let me know. That's like ominous. Like it's a horror story or something. When you decide to sell it, the house

isn't even built yet. And Bernard is telling it. I mean, I would feel like Bernard is going to do something to it. Or if I build a house here, it would be haunted. Obviously, I watched too many movies. No, I feel extremely nervous. If someone warned me or told me to tell them when I was going to sell a thing I had just bought, I would immediately have a paranoid spiral. Yeah, you and Courtney are now eye to eye. Courtney is like, we told this man we're building a house and he asked if he could buy it. That's bad news. She's like, on top of that, this guy is the HOA president and he has lived next to an empty lot for a decade. And now we are going to come in and build a house. Like this is a nightmare. Franny and Devon are like, you need to chill.

They're like, we work in construction. This is not a real problem. They're like, there's drama like this all the time. People are always all bark and no bite. Like, usually the biggest problem with HOAs is working hours, right? Like when you can be there constructing your house. They're like, it's annoying. But like, it's fine. Everything will be fine. They are wrong. Everything is not fine. A few months pass. It is now December. Okay. In the meantime, Courtney and Devon, who are like largely liked by their other future neighbors, have been added to a Facebook group for the neighborhood. So they're learning that's never good. Oh my God. If there's one moral of this show, it's that Facebook is bad. So they're learning from this group like all kinds of petty drama

that exists in HOAs, right? Like there's drama about what you can plant in your yard and what you can't. There's drama about what size pools you can have. They're also learning that there are all these weird restrictions, right? Like you can't Airbnb your house. There are no hot tubs allowed. You can't like use your boat too close to shore. There are like no unsanctioned docks, right? There's just on and on and on just like all this huge list. So in December, when Devon decides that he wants to propose to Courtney, he goes into this group of neighbors and he's like, hi, can anyone like help me? I'm going to need some extra hands. And they're all like, yes. And they're all so helpful. They like help him get flowers and lights. Devon like builds

a floating dock. Oh my God. How do you do this? No idea. He like builds a dock that can just go like out into the lake once you're standing on it. How does this work? Very unclear to me. It seems very dangerous. Bernard is silent about all of this. So he's like, we're good. Franny and the neighbors like put up a bunch of cute stuff, right? There's like those balloon things that float on the water and light up, right? So it's like gorgeous. They like scatter flowers everywhere. He hires a photographer on their nightly walk over there. He like leads Courtney onto this new floating dock that he's built and like a bunch of her friends and family are there. Some of her friends like even, I know some of her friends even like flew in as a surprise.

And so he asks her to marry him and she of course says, yes, she's thrilled. I'm into it. Devon, I mean, I feel bad for saying that he should have dumped her when she complained because he clearly is like a huge sweetheart. And like, I love this and I love that she came around. I am still definitely nervous for when the bottom's going to fall out of this story. But love is real. I'm feeling romantic. I'm feeling like warm and fuzzy. That's great. Yeah, it is nice. It's a great night, right? Like everyone has a great time. They drink champagne on the property. It's marvelous. Because Courtney's friends are in town. They're like, oh, we're going to go out to brunch like with Courtney's friends the next day,

right? So they get up bright and early 9am. They're like opening the door and they're tacked to the door of their townhouse where they are still renting is a letter. Here we go. The letter reads to whom it may concern. Docs are forbidden on the lake without prior approval and permission. You had neither because your property does not have a house on it. It cannot even be approved for a doc. The doc, as it is built, is a safety hazard and must be removed immediately or will be forced to take legal action. In addition, the flowers you have scattered are not indigenous to this area and pose a threat to the local ecosystem. Please remove them at once sincerely Bernard H.O.A. president. What a fucking hater. Bernard. He was going to take the doc down,

right? Oh, God. Do I understand how H.O.A. laws work? No. Do I really understand what this means legally? Absolutely not. And like neither do Courtney or Devin really. They're like, does this guy even have jurisdiction? What can he do? Yeah, I'd have no idea. What do you think they should do in this scenario where he has demanded they take their doc down? Well, I am a coward and terrified of the law. So I would immediately, I mean, I don't know that I'd go pick up every petal. But I would certainly like break down the doc and like hide all evidence and cross my fingers that like there's no H.O.A. police that would come like drag me out of my house for my my proposal doc. Yes, Courtney and Devin are like, they also agree that you should

take down the doc. Like they're like, this seems just like a battle that we do not want to fight. And they also know in the back of their head that they're going to have to get housing like proposals approved by the H.O.A. to build their house. So they're like, we cannot make enemies over a temporary floating doc. They remove the doc, they pick up the flowers. In January of 2018, they submit the plans for their house to the H.O.A. Two weeks later, they get a letter back. Their plans have been denied. They cannot build their house because their house is a two-story building. That is the basis of the denial. I knew it. That damn Bernard. But Franny and Devin both work in construction. So Franny is like, that is absolutely not a thing.

Like there are other houses in this neighborhood that have two stories and the way that H.O.A. laws work is if one person can have it, everyone can have it. So she's like, they can't deny you on this. Like there must be some reason they don't want you to do it. And Courtney's like, I'll tell you the reason Bernard doesn't want us to have a house there. But they redo their designs. In March, they submit another set of drawings to the H.O.A. 30 days past nothing. Another 30 days past nothing. After 60 days, they have not heard back from the H.O.A. Oh my God. There are some laws I don't understand. But what the laws say is that if you haven't heard back from the H.O.A. in 30 days, you can move forward with your construction. Oh, great. What do you think they

should do? Well, I feel like they should build the house. But also, there's a part of me that's like, Bernard's just going to set it on fire in the middle of the night because whatever reason he's decided he has a vendetta against these people, he's going to like mess up their plans. Yeah. Franny has absolutely no tolerance for Bernard. And she's like, we waited 60 days. I want to build this house. I don't give a shit about the H.O.A. I'm getting permits. We're laying a foundation. We're moving forward. This house is now in progress. Yeah, that righteous lesbian energy. That's what I'm talking about. It's March. They start going, they're going to town on the house, right? Like her and Devin are building the best house that's ever existed. And for a while,

everything is quiet except for the hammering on the house. Then on Christmas Eve, so we're now, what, nine months after they've broken ground on this house, there is a big ol' knock on the door of the townhouse. Devin and Courtney are getting ready to go out to dinner with Devin's family because it's Christmas Eve. Courtney is like midway through putting her earrings in when she opens the door. She's like still holding a earring in her hand when she accepts a cease and desist letter from a lawyer because they started building without H.O.A. approval. Come on. Christmas Eve. I, I mean, honest, like if I'm being honest, if this was me, the minute I felt a little static

from Bernard that first time, I'd be like, fuck this, we're not living here. But at this point, like now we just got a fight. I'd be like, Bernard, Bernard, get over here with a bat and let's like see who wins. I like that you're having a bat fight. It's the normal way to have a duel. I don't know how to do regular fighting. I'd be like, you get one weapon, I get one weapon, no guns and let's see who wins. Okay. This is basically where Devin and Franny are. They like know enough about this that they know that they haven't done anything wrong. And they're like, if anything, the H.O.A. did something wrong by not responding to our plans. So like we are fine. And Courtney is like, yeah, people do things all the time that are fine and

they still get tied up in court for years for doing nothing wrong. Courtney's like, is this even worth it? Like do I even want to live in my perfect neighborhood anymore? Like what is the point if I can't get a house built with a roofer and a contractor on my team? Like who can get a house built here? Courtney is like mid breakdown, right? Franny and Devin have gone off somewhere to discuss their plan. She's just losing it, right? She's like, it's over for her. Franny and Devin come back and they are furious and they have a folder inside the folder is Intel that they have gathered. The Intel is one. They have found out that Bernard sued another homeowner across the lake last year because he put in a light that he didn't like. Okay. And he sued that man for $50,000.

Oh my God. What is Bernard's damage? They have also found out that Bernard actually bought his property from Franny's dad during the recession. And Franny's dad like cut him a deal so that he could pay Franny's dad back instead of having to like get a mortgage through the bank in the worst time ever. See, this is why you can't do anything. But now they're like, we have a strategy, right? They're like Franny's dad was really nice to this guy. Franny's dad will simply call Bernard and fix our problem. Do you think that this is going to work? I absolutely do not unless Franny's dad is terrifying in some way. He's just like a regular nice dad. No dice, but if he's like scary, maybe. The problem is that Franny's dad is a regular nice dad. So he calls Bernard. Bernard does not care.

For six months, Devin is like on and off the phone with lawyers while still hemorrhaging money on his rental property and building a house. Oh God. Okay. Devin is furious. The lawyers are like confident. They're like, you know, some couple in Idaho, they put up 200,000 Christmas lights and got sued by their HOA and won. So like you guys should be fine. And Courtney's like, we didn't put up 200,000 Christmas lights. We just want to build a house. Everyone's fighting. They're going back and forth. There's like insane drama. Everyone is miserable except for potato who's getting even more walks than usual because everyone's so stressed. I forgot about little potato. One year after buying their land, house is still not done.

Devin takes potato for his walk by himself because Courtney's uptown. And he's like, wow, there are like a lot more stray cats than I remember there being. He's like, that's weird. So he like asked Courtney on their nightly phone call and Courtney's like, oh, I haven't noticed it, but Courtney has memorized the HOA handbook now. She knows that it is forbidden to feed the stray cats. She's like, so maybe if Bernard is doing that, we have something on him. We have something on him. I don't know. I'm vexed. The lawyers are like, I don't know, dude, that's like a pretty weak argument is that this man may or may not be feeding stray cats. Like this is a dead end. We're stuck in this legal battle.

I am feeling nervous about potential cat murder. I'm also feeling nervous that Bernard's going to level up in some terrifying way. I'm also like sort of like, why didn't anybody reach the point truly where they were like, let's go beat Bernard's ass? But I don't know. Why haven't they started the revenge part of this operation yet? Yes. Okay. So get this two months before the house is done. Franny and Devin are like on the roof. You know, what are they doing? I don't know. Some construction thing. They're on the roof doing the construction thing. And Franny is like, okay, two weird things are happening. One, there are a lot of stray cats and they're all in Bernard's like area, like in his back and

front yard. She's like, two, what's that behind those trees over there? Oh my God, it's a hot tub. Oh, Bernard's feeding cats and soaking in his tub. He's bringing all the way rules. So Franny and Devin obviously take a picture. They send it to Courtney. They're like, this is why he didn't want us to have a two story house because from the roof, we can see this. Oh my God. Of course. It's not about the two stories. It's about his secret hot tub. All this about a hot tub. All this about a hot tub. I feel like, I mean, okay, I'm not a lawyer or a mediator, but I feel like there's a little deal to be made. Like, hey guys, you can build your house if you don't snitch on my hot tub. Like,

don't people believe in greasing palms anymore? Yeah, truly. Hundred dollar handshake baby. Where is it? Okay, Devin talks to Franny about it. They discuss it. Devin and Courtney discuss it. Courtney and Franny discuss it. Everyone is in a discussion tornado. What they decide is it is best to let lawyers talk to lawyers. We will tell the lawyers and we will let them talk to Bernard's lawyers. That's very mature. But then Devin takes this usual ambient to go to sleep. He wakes up in the middle of the night. He posts on the H3 Facebook group just wondering what the rules exactly are on hot tubs. I know Bernard has one, so I was wondering what size exactly we're allowed to have and he hit send. Sweet, sweet Devin, his own worst enemy.

This, as you can imagine, creates chaos. Bernard is furious, but also the group chat is furious, right? People are bringing up feuds that go back 10 years, right? They're like, Bernard wouldn't let me have my hot tub at this point. Bernard puts too many signs in his yard, blah, blah, blah. One woman is like, there are so many stray cats in Bernard's yard that I had to call animal control to come round some of them up. Oh no. This is what works the group up the most, right? They're like, not only does Bernard have a hot tub, which is against the rules, he is also feeding the stray cats, which is also against the rules. Two strikes, you're out in the HOA. The group without Courtney or Devin impeached Bernard as a HOA president. Oh, now I love this. Okay. They make him remove

his hot tub. They demand he stopped feeding with cats. Bernard has been vanquished. So much so that when Courtney and Devin finally move into their house at the end of 2019, they only lived there for three days before Bernard put a sign, a for sale sign in front of his house. Oh my God. What do you think? There were so many times in this, what, seven, eight year span that this could have been worked out, that there could have been a secret deal made, that there could have been an agreement. And now all of these cats have been scooped up. Bernard's out. Courtney and Devin have been wasting all this rent money because they couldn't build their house. Yes. I mean, it's mostly like

a bummer, but also like, what is Bernard's problem? Who do you think the villain of this story is? Well, this is hard. Talk me through it. Why is that hard? Well, because you want to say Bernard, right? Because like, he's clearly an asshole. Feminism won't let me say Courtney, even though she's part of the reason that we're here in the first place. So I'm going to have to say Devin. You're picking Devin? What did Devin do? He should have let old girls stay in North Dakota where she could go running outside or

California, wherever it was she wanted to be. He could have had his house that Franny built in a different town that's not on a lake. He never would have met Bernard. Yeah, Devin. I do. I did think there were a couple of places you could come down on that. I did not expect Devin. I mean, Bernard's too obvious. Whatever it is about Bernard's personality, his other HOA people have been letting him get away with it for this long. They would have never had to meet Bernard if Devin had been strong enough to just get his house wherever Franny had her house and they could have been next door neighbors and business partners. And he would have never had to know about any of this. Right? That's the wrong answer, but it's the funniest one. So I'm going

to go with that. There's one more thing. Uh-oh. This was a trap. So Courtney shipped Franny's girlfriend a birthday present, and it was like really nice, right? Like a little handmade mug from Etsy. And then a couple weeks later, like she accidentally sent another package to Franny's girlfriend, right? You know, sometimes like your Etsy gets messed up and then you accidentally send something to someone else. Yeah. And Courtney was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I just like shipped it to the wrong address. Franny's girlfriend's like, no problem. Just come get it whenever you want, right? So Courtney goes and gets it. Franny's girlfriend doesn't tell Franny, nobody thinks about this again, right? Because stuff like this happens all the time.

One night during the pandemic, when the four of them, Courtney, Devin, Franny and Franny's girlfriend were in their little pod, right? They're all just like drinking. Courtney, a little bit drunk, leans over. She's like, do you want to know what I had shipped to your house? And for a second, Franny's girlfriend is like, I don't even know what you're talking about. What are you talking about? And she's like, oh, remember, I shipped you your birthday present and I shipped something else. And Franny's girlfriend is like, kind of, like that was an insignificant part of my life. So I have no memory of that. But I do kind of remember it. Courtney is like laughing so hard that she can't breathe. She chokes it out. What she sent to

Franny's girlfriend's house was catnip seats. Four weeks when Courtney was going on her little runs, she was taking a handful of catnip seats and throwing them into Bernard's yard. Oh, my God. Front and back. So it took like a few months for them to grow. But that is why there were so many feral cats. Okay. Okay. First of all, that's like so demonic that I respect it a little. I'm mad that I have to now feel bad for Bernard and mad that I tried to do a like girl power thing and not hit Courtney as the villain. But okay, Devon should have known. But you think Devon should have known that she was taking catnip seats? No, he should have known that she sighs. When she first started complaining that people were too

friendly, he should have been like, this isn't the woman for me. Oh, my God. Courtney. No, it does. Courtney, no, she's the worst. She's the reason they had to rent that house. She wouldn't give up the lake. She wouldn't give up the daiquiris. Oh, I hate having to turn on a lady, but Courtney is kind of impressive if you think about it, though, that like she managed to get everything she wanted. She, I mean, she really did. I mean, you have to respect it. You have to. That's like, that's like maniac. I would have never thought catnip seat. Like, first of all, who even knew like, not me. Super not me. I had no idea. Oh, my God. That's incredible. What an evil genius. I assume she still has her two story house. Yeah. And lives on her lake.

The updates we've gotten is that they still live on the lake. They have a beautiful house that they love. They reinstalled their dock once they had the house. And potato turns out the reason she wasn't losing weight is that she didn't like walking, but she does like swimming. So she jumps off the dock and now potato is in great shape. Oh, well, that's a happy ending if I've ever heard one. It really is. But I still, that's, I mean, some gone girl shit. Devon better watch out. Sam, thank you so much for coming on Normal Gossip. This is a delight. This is the best night of my life. Truly. I will be side eyeing all of my neighbors for the rest of my life. Yeah. If you get a lot of cats in your yard, you probably should watch out.

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normal gossip at thefactor.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 gossip. If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at Normal Gossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at McKinney-Kelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sue John Loughlin. Defector's Projects editor is Justin Ellis. Our editor-in-chief is Tom Lay. Jay Toll Vieira is our production assistant. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff, Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip

is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. And remember, you did not hear this from me.