Normal Gossip - The Bro Never Dies with Josh Gondelman

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

Josh Gondelman is BACK for a story about gross boys who love each other very much. Follow Josh on Instagram at @joshgondelman!Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here!Pre-order Kelsey's book,��YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here!Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets!You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com.Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/Episode transcript here.Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Sara Fagan. Show art by Tara Jacoby.Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Hi there, it's Laleh Arakoglu, the host of Condé Nast Travelers podcast, Women Who Travel. I'm here with our executive producer, Stephanie Karayuki. Hi Laleh, so good to be here. Stephanie and I, we've been talking a lot about the new twists and turns the show is taking. The team has been working really hard at honing in on the heart of the show. Travel stories from women that make you feel something. Stories that change your perspective, that have depth,

and sometimes stories that just make you laugh really hard. A big part of Women Who Travel has always been to claim space that has traditionally been taken up by male voices. And that's still true today. And our mission moving forward with this show is to bring to life the travel experiences that you might not have heard while helping you figure out where to go next.

So when you listen to Women Who Travel, you not only support our show, you support the vision behind it, to make travel accessible and exciting for all. New episodes come out every Thursday, so make sure you follow Women Who Travel wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an

anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. A few little quick items of business before we move into this week's episode with a dear friend that is such a delight. I cannot wait for you guys to hear it. The first thing is that I have a book coming out, which is very exciting. You can preorder it wherever you preorder books. And I'm going to go on book tour, which is really exciting. And I promise it won't be boring and it will be very fun. And you can get tickets for that at kelseymckinneybook.com. The other thing is that if you are desperate for gossip and you are sliding into our DMs like why aren't there more episodes? Please, I need more episodes. Please, my family is

dying. If I don't have any more gossip, I'm not going to live any longer. Have you considered becoming a subscriber? You can become a subscriber to Normal Gossip at supportnormalgossip.com and you get all sorts of cool benefits, one of which is a monthly bonus episode. In next month's subscriber episode, we're going to be talking about some Hallmark movie I haven't seen called The Spirit of Christmas, which is about a ghost? So can't wait to do that. But you also get all sorts of other things like access to our newsletter, advanced tips on when we're going on tour, all sorts of stuff. It's very exciting. That's supportnormalgossip.com. Okay, enough business. Please welcome back to the show, Josh Gondelman.

Josh is an author, TV writer, and stand-up comedian whose new comedy special, Positive Reinforcement, is coming out soon. You may also remember Josh from the season one episode about the person who fakes being a marathon runner. Josh, welcome. Hello, Kelsey. I'm so delighted to see you and extra delighted to get to record a podcast with you. Um, Josh, how's your relationship with gossip changed at all since the last time you were here? I feel like I've been getting a little more gossip lately because I, I really went hard and was like on the podcast previously.

Yeah. People don't tell me the good gossip. And I feel like… That's true. I don't know whether I've been seeking it out more assiduously or whether people know about me that like I do want to hear the gossip. Wow. And so I feel like I'm getting mostly the fun stuff and then occasional,

you know, part of the gossip, you cast a gossip net and sometimes you hear things that are less fun. But that's, I would again, would rather know if there's bad stuff to be known. Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that because the last time you were here, you kind of emphatically set up top, like I'm only really interested in like possip,

positive gossip. So I wondered like, has your, now that you're receiving more gossip, has your opinion on that changed? Yeah, well, I think it's, maybe I was remiss to neglect the fact that like, I think it's important to hear the tough stuff too, right? It'd be like, oh, I should be aware of kind of a 360 view

of this person that's maybe in my life or in my professional sphere. And so I am, if this was not something I believed then, like if it was, or if it was something I like didn't consider then, I do want to be on the record now saying, I think it's important to know the kind of like whisper networky, like, oh, this person, like, you know, they, they've been cruel to these people. And like, it's just something to know, before you like seek out collaboration with them or whatever. I think that's like a really, a really key thing. And again, I think it's like dude to dude that doesn't always get spoken, you know, you know, yeah, the brosip

network amongst dudes. Yeah. Between brosip network. Amongst dudes. Yeah, between bros. That's kind of my, yeah. That's your sweet spot. It's to get former fraternity members to become therapists and treat other bros. And I always feel very trusted when stuff like that is told. Because I think this is like, you know, there's gossip with like, where the soundtrack is like, upbeat music in your Jatt and the Gabin.

And then there's gossip where it's like, the very special episode music. And like, you know, I understand the difference, but I think they're both valuable. Now that people are giving you more gossip, what format are they giving it to you in? Like, are you getting voice memos? Are people pulling you over on the side of the street?

What's the deal? CHARLIE I'm a stranger. They're like, Josh, Josh! JOSH Yeah, X-Tree, X-Tree! KATE Printing out a gossip newsletter just for you to hand to you. CHARLIE Yeah, yeah, I see gossip scenes. God, I hope, I really was hoping to see you.

I only printed one copy. I was either gonna give it to you or to Steve from Blue's Clues, because he looks just like you. LAUGHS Um, Josh. Yes? I heard that you brought a gossip for me.

I did. From your new gossip gathering. Yeah. Could I have it? Of course. Oh, my God, great. So, this, this is, I've heard this through several different sources. OK.

There's like a male pop star whose energy is fairly pleasant, let's say. That's their vibe as an artist. It's not like they don't have a horny energy as a performer. Okay, okay. It's giving friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

So we're not talking someone in the mode of like, the weekend, right? Who you're like, oh man, this guy just sings to pass time till he can fuck. Right. Yeah, big frenergy, I think is right. And I don't know what his romantic situation is, whether they have an arrangement with a long-term partner

or whether they, you know, whether this is like, they are having unspoken romantic engagements. But this person is out and about... Oh! ...sensually. Okay, so not out and about sensually. (*LAUGHTER*) Not just, you know, they're not just in ribbon cuttings and...

Mm-hmm. They're out and about sitting very close to someone at the bar. Yeah. And when they have romantic encounters... Oh, no. I'm so scared. You should be. Um, when they reach what I would call to be, you know, to be family-friendly, to the top of Sex Mountain... to be, you know, to be family-friendly to the top of Sex Mountain. No. They ejaculate their own name from their mouth.

No. Yeah, they just belt it out to the rafters. The full name, full legal first name. Full name, first and last name. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still bad, even if it's your first name, but it's worse if it's your first and your last name. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still bad even if it's your first name, but it's worse if it's your first and your last name. Yeah. That's crazy. Like I, okay.

I have several things to say here. The first is like, assuming this person, as you said, is like in some kind of relationship, like maybe that relationship is open. We don't know the details of that. Sure. Yeah. I try not to judge things like that. Yeah, but even if it is, it's like you're never gonna be able to be sneaky with your sexual choices

if at the end of every orgasm you shout your own name. Like who else would be shouting your own name? I feel like, and this is gonna sound like telling on myself, which it isn't at all. But I feel like when you are a famous person who is having like kind of romantic entanglements in the parlance of Jada Pinkett Smith, and it's like maybe a little,

like it's not something you necessarily want out on the town. You got to be you've got to be capable at sex. Yeah, but you can't be eccentric. Special. Yeah, you can't. Yeah. Yes. You've got to do a good job But you can't, you can't be doing like wild, eccentric things, because that's gonna make it on a podcast. It's also kind of wild to me because like, celebrities love NDAs, right? It's like they're like so horny for NDAs. They're like, this is my favorite piece of paper that's ever existed. Makes them sing their own name. Yeah, exactly. But I'm like, own name to sign an NDA. Exactly. But I'm like, getting someone to sign an NDA doesn't like prevent this, right?

Like telling your friend, when I had sex with this person, they yelled their own name is like just on the table for the taking, right? Like you have to know that they're gonna be telling people that. Yeah, for sure. And it's especially, yeah, it just feels, it feels like a real own goal. It really does feel like an own goal. It feels like you're like trying to get caught in some way,

or you're like trying for this rumor in particular to get out, which is extremely strange. out, which is extremely strange. It's so, it's so silly. And it's like, if I achieved peak sex first, and then I... Right. I feel like that's gonna, that's not conducive to the other, that's like, I'm like, what's that? Oh, it's like moisture being wicked away. Like a Nike tech suit. I had not considered that, that this is a situation in which it is possible that your partner is still wishing to continue having sex

and you have just shouted your own name. I mean, maybe, right. Like maybe if, I guess if you're like, okay, they can't possibly there's, there's, they, they must be right, right. Full over. We're done. Yeah, they're, they're done.

And then you're like, well, I don't know. I, I feel like I want to celebrate a job well done. Yeah, it is kind of like, it's like chanting, try to get a stadium to change your own name, right? Which, and it's like, that's like trying to get a stadium to chant your own name, right? And it's like, that's not really how it works. Like the stadium has to choose to chant your name. You can't like force them to via coercion, right? I guess like, because I, again, I'm being so gross on this podcast, but I feel like

it's rare that you're gross. I know. But I feel like when a when someone who has a penis has an orgasm, that's the celebration. That's like when you dunk, you don't then pick up the ball and kick it into the stance you've already done. The kicking it into the stance feels like the right metaphor though, because it's like, this adds nothing. It's maybe hurtful, and also why are you doing it? It's definitely confusing. Yes. Everyone in the stadium is like, huh, we liked it when he dunked, but that was, I don't know about that part.

In fact, a dunk was cool to see, but I probably wouldn't tell someone about it. But then when I say, kick that into the stance. Wow, Josh, thank you for bringing this to me. You're welcome. And also to all of us. Truly my pleasure. The thing is, this is like kind of an apt beginning for this, for us to have discussed all of these things because like the story today is like we're going

like bro to bro. We're going bro mode. Look, I'm ready. I'm a bro pin book. No. Okay, Josh, are you ready? I'm ready. Our friend of a friend today, we're going to call her Crystal. And Crystal is in college. She's at the beginning of her senior year. And you know, when you're a senior in college, you have this like unearned confidence like you're the biggest fish in truly the smallest pond. Totally. You're like old enough to drink legally,

but you're also still an idiot. Right. When you're a senior in college, you can be like the booze hero at a party. I brought the babs. I know I just sounded like fucking Dennis Hopper and move Velvet, but that's what being a college senior feels like. Yes. And it is the first semester of senior year. So you're not like staring down the barrel of adulthood, right? It's still all fun and games.

A psychologically perfect time. Yes. One night, Crystal sees this guy on campus and he invites her on a date, as college kids do. And so she goes on this date and they like, they drive around, they go for a walk in a big park, they hit a drive-through. It's like a very cute, casual first date. This story, meeting just on a quad, going to a drive-through, this is gossip from 1957. Well, it's not my business. But their conversation is great.

She's like, this is really surprising, right? We're really getting along. We both like physical humor. We both like the same fast food hamburger. We have different majors and interests, but he's so cute to Crystal. Sweet. She's like, his smile is like the first firefly you see in the summer. What?

Wow. Is Crystal Poet Laureate or Young Poet Laureate? This is from Amanda Gorman. It's also like corny hour, right? She's like, I look at him and I feel like the center of the universe. It's so cute. Yeah. You're a family man and you love love.

Do you think that this can be enough to fall in love with someone? Yeah, I do think it can be enough to fall in love with someone. I don't think I don't know that it's enough to like move in with someone. But I like I think there is a beautiful quality to like falling in love and enjoying it for as long as feels wonderful. Yeah, Crystal also thinks this and she's like, this is a great first date, right? Like, I'm feeling really good. There is something I forgot to mention and that is that the guy that she's on this date with is named Bam.

B-A-M? B-A-M. Okay. Is it a nickname? Is it initials? Is it based on like some kind of action he does? All of this is unclear. Crystal on the date is like, why Bam? And Bam's like, what? And Crystal's like, why are you called Bam? Like, why does everyone call you Bam? And he's like, well, that's what everyone calls me. That's God, tautology on the first day.

Yeah, she's like, whatever, this guy's name is Bam. That's not my business, I guess. At the end of the date, Bam is like, do you want to go back to my apartment? And Crystal's like, yes. Great. You were once a 21 year old boy. What is a 21 year old boy's apartment like? Horrendous. No shelves. Everything is bed, desk, floor, maybe closet. But that's how stuff it's like at best for me, it's almost still true as a married person that like the best you're getting out of me is well manicured piles. Katie Kemp Christel has like seen her fair share of 21 year old boys apartments, right? It's not her first rodeo. She knows to expect laundry on the ground.

She knows to expect dirty dishes, like last semester's textbooks in a pile in the corner, some roommate playing Xbox too loud, a Navy sheet, right? She's like, I'm aware of all of these things. She's like, I expect it to smell faintly of like sweat and Fritos and three in one shampoo. Yep. She has never seen anything like Bam's apartment. At first, this apartment seems like kind of normal, like clean even. There's like nothing out.

Everything is put away. Okay. But it's like, there's no rug. There's no upholstery. Okay. The couch is like covered in like grandma style plastic. Weird. And it's like as if a 21 year old boy tried to childproof an apartment. Like the cabinets are zip tied closed.

The fridge has a chain around it with a lock. It's like they got all their design stuff at the cereal killer store. Are you concerned about this apartment? Yeah, there's something that feels off, right? Especially you can't get into the refrigerator. So like, yeah, this feels like a place that like it's not your place. It's a place that you can bring someone when you don't want them to see your place. Interesting. Crystal feels like a kind of clammy chill when she sees all of this. She's like, why is the oven zip tied? Like, why are all these doors locked? Why do you have so many zip ties? And Bam's like, oh, it's my roommate's thing. Crystal's like, I don't

know if the roommate thing is a sufficient answer for me. Yeah. But she's like, she's like, whatever, I'm having a great first date. I too am 22 years old. She goes into Bams room and Bams room is like a totally normal boy room. Okay. So like clothes on the ground, there are just like cups everywhere. She notices that he's like still carrying like the extra fast food burger that they got at the drive-thru.

Nice. And she's like, oh, are you going to put that in the fridge? And he's like, no, it's like got a combination lock. It's a whole thing. I like, I'm not going to do it. This is wild. This is so, it's such a funny contrast too, because he's living so like normal dude of like, yeah, I'll just, you know, maybe I'll want it in an hour. I'll leave it on my desk. Yeah, sure. But like outside the room is like, you know, this isn't like how people live, right? Right. This is this is strange. This is also I love crystals, beautiful, pure heart, to be like, see this and be like, I'm so charmed by this gentleman, or have seen so much worse.

But like this still qualifies as terrific first date because I think I meant to say this earlier, but like zip tie on the oven combination lock on the fridge. Sorry to quote a Morgan Wallin song I imagine. But that feels like when it starts to be like, oh, we were having a great first date, now we're having like an okay first date. Yes. Crystal's kind of like, we close the door, we don't see the zip-tied cabinets and the combination lock fridge, and maybe everything's fine. And sure enough, things are fine. They bang.

Great. They bam. They bam. It's like very good for her. And she's like stunned. She's like, our chemistry is just really good. Like this is all very surprising to have a great first date. She goes into Bam's little like ensuite bathroom and she texts her friends. And she's like, am I afraid to let love in? Because I'm like with this guy and it's been such a great date, but his apartment is so weird. Yeah. And her friends like weird how and she's like, I don't know.

It's just strange. There's like zip ties everywhere. And her friend's like weird how and she's like, I don't know, it's just strange. There's like zip ties everywhere. And her friend is like, I think you should leave. Like I don't think you should stay overnight in a place filled with zip ties. Like that's not a good vibe. And Crystal's like, okay, I'm not going to leave actually, because I like him. You can like him and you can leave. That's so true. Crystal does not leave. She spends the night.

But it's like once she decides to stay over, she realizes that there's like only one pillow. Tough. And so she's like, Bam, there's no pillow for me here. And Bam's like, oh shit, sorry. And he like goes into the living room and like 15 minutes later, he comes back with like a second pillow. But it's like flat.

And so she sleeps like restlessly tossing and turning. You did look, I'm not gonna say I've never been this guy. But when you find the sir, the air stats surrogate pillow, yeah, that's your pillow. Be a gentleman. Wow. Yeah. Let a lady have the bed pillow and you take whatever, like the closet pillow or the couch pillow or the one that's been zip-tied into the oven.

Yeah. In the morning, she wakes up, bam is gone. She's like, it's not my first time to wake up in a bed that once had a man in it and now does not. Sure. She's like, but it's weird because it was a great date and also it's your bed, right? Like where are you? She's like, huh.

He's locked in the refrigerator. He's been zip tied. No, he arrives a little bit later and he's like, oh, you're awake. And he has gotten a coffee and a croissant for her. Cute. Very cute. And she's like, the good thing about a boy who's not clean

is he doesn't care if I eat this croissant in his bed. And so she does. That is like truly bottom five bed food. Yes, it's so crumbly. It's so flaky. It's like croissant soup from a bread bowl. Yeah. Nature valley bar.

Nature valley bar. That's also so funny, because that's what you would expect from like a guy who has the energy of this BAM that's just like, BAM, brought you a granola and a Celsius. Good morning, babe. She's like, BAM, thank you for the croissant. Thank you for the coffee. She gets like halfway through her croissant when she sees him reaching for the fast food

bag for the extra burger from the night before. And he's like, I like to have my night burger in the morning. I don't know that that this is the first time I've ever heard that. I think what I mean, this isn't the first time you've heard that. I didn't quite have the vibe of these guys, but he lives in there. I speak that language. It is a mutually intelligible bromance language. I know guys who have been like, yeah, I bring my fast food order home drunk. And then like, I wake up and I'm like, oh, hey, thanks, drunk me. Here's here's a room temp burger, just a burger that feels like the air but thicker.

No. So you would eat this burger? Yes, of course. Why cut John? I wouldn't eat it in front of a first date. Yeah, that's a smart, that's a good decision. I feel like I would be on good behavior in this situation. Crystal is like, bam, you cannot eat a night burger. And bam's like, why?

And Crystal's like, you can't leave meat out overnight. Like it's gone bad. Burgers can't be left out at room temperature. And he's like, oh, no shit. And she's like, no shit. And he's like, wow. But he does listen to her and he stops eating the night burger. So she's like, okay, whatever. Wow. Never before has I can change him, born more immediate fruit. She's like, why didn't you just put it in the fridge? Like if you had put it in the fridge, I wouldn't be concerned about your like stomach dying.

And he's like, yeah, but like, if I put it in the locked fridge, he might be able to get it out of there anyway. Okay, now this, you're like, who does Bam live with? Is it a wolf? Yes, Crystal you're like, who does Bam live with? Is it a wolf? Um, yes, Crystal's literally like, is your roommate a fucking werewolf? Like, why can't you leave food out? And at this point, Bam responds like he's on trial, like he's been like caught in a lie and he's said too much,

which does not do much for like, That's so funny. to ask you follow up questions. So funny too, because like, if you're a person who has a locked padlocked refrigerator, so that he can't get it, you have to have an explanation prepared. And so Crystal is like, you know, now I'm asking questions, right? Like now I've got a lot of questions. So she's like, what's your roommate's name? And Bam's like, Spencer. She's like, okay. And Spencer eats your burgers sometimes. And Bam's like, sure. And Crystal's like, what do you mean sure? And Bam's like, I can't talk about it. And Crystal's like, why? And Bam is like, listen, I really like you. And this has been a great first date, but he is my best friend.

I cannot just tell you his shit when we barely know each other. It's not fair to him. That's I think that's like such a wild because again, normal questions. This wasn't this wasn't like after one day being like, so do you want kids like this is like, we're not going too far down like we're in the physical like asking questions about the physical space that you're in. Yes. This is like, would you still love me if I was a worm? This is like, Hey, um, why does your roommate have an incurable taste for flesh that it's your problem to solve?

Yes, exactly. Crystal, however, thinks this is adorable because she's like, I think it's beautiful when men have friends. That's, this is the wrong response. This is the first time that Crystal has had a response that I'm like, I disagree, I don't know. He comes home with like a dirty shovel

and he's covered in blood. And you're just like, where were you? And it's like, I was with the guys, you know, we were doing, I just can't, I can't tell you their secrets. Yes. On their second date, she meets Bam's roommate. His name is Spencer. He's tall. He's normal. He has soft looking hair. And where are they? They meet at his apartment. And he and Bam are clearly like just the two best friends who have ever existed.

Like they like immediately are like, let us tell you about how we met. Right. And they're like, they're like, we met at the ping pong table in our dorm. Like we were both high school athletes and we had no outlet for our competitive spirit. And so we played each other at ping pong in the dorm. And then after it was really close and Spencer was like, together, we could take on everyone here. Wow. And Bam was like, yeah. And so they did. They beat everyone in the dorm at doubles ping pong.

That's good. That's a nice friendship. Is that enough to create a lifelong friendship? Yes. I've created lifelong friendships over less. Exactly. And ever since they've been intertwined, like two best buds. And at this point, lifelong has only been like three years and one month. Exactly, yes. They watch The Office together.

They listen to soft boy music together. They mostly hang out with each other. By their fourth date, Crystal is well acquainted with this apartment. And at some point she's like, Oh, I need a water, right? Like, and she's like, all these cups in Bam's room seem dirty. Like, I'm going to go get a water from the kitchen. Now I'm back on board with her instincts. You see a cup away from other cups. That's

a dirty cup. Exactly. So she's like, I need a regular cup. And so like forgetting where she is, she goes to the kitchen to get a cup and the cabinets are zip-tied, right? So she's like, bam, I need help. Like I want a cup out of the cabinet and it's zip-tied. And Bam's like, okay, okay. He comes sprinting over. He like opens it with a pocket knife. He's like, I got it. And she's like, this seems like really inefficient. Like do you ever cut yourself with this knife trying to open your cabinets? And he's like all the time, man. I knew that was going to be the answer. There's no doubt that the answer was going to

be all the time. But that's beautiful to me. That's like, sometimes friendship burns. Sometimes the price of friendship is a little cut on your hand when you try to get a cup in the night before you zip tie the cabinet shut, because otherwise Spencer will quote, get the cubs. Exactly. And she's like, why do you need these cabinets closed so badly? Like, what is it that Spencer is going to do? My dude is an earthquake. Exactly. And Spencer is like here, right? It's his apartment too.

He's here and Bam and Spencer kind of like look at each other and Spencer's like, it's my fault. What do you think the confession Spencer has to make is? I mean, like the only reasonable explanation that I can think of is like, intense sleepwalking and like sleep activity that that where he eats and you know, creates a mess that he never deals with and doesn't realize that he's done. Yes great guess that is exactly correct spencer has some amulism which is the doctor term for having sleepwalking and the doctor thought you would just grow out of it but that he just didn't. So he like wakes up at night and was around eat stuff move stuff, moves stuff, breaks things, and he didn't want to move in

with Bam because he was embarrassed about it. And Bam was like, no, man, like, we're brothers, I'll help you. And so their whole apartment is like Spencer's sleep-proofed. BAM BIRCHWALD This is such a... That's really sweet. But it's also like, it also like can't be the solution. STACEY Yes, it's like your heart's in the right place, but there has to be a better way to do this.

Like this is the solution of a guy who doesn't know it's wrong to eat night burgers. Yes. And what's funny is Crystal is like, oh, I maybe could have figured that out because like on their third date, she woke up in the middle of the night to Spencer like rustling and clanging and like cursing in the kitchen and then beef browning, that smell at like 3 AM. But she was like, well, that's kind of within the realm of acceptability of behavior for college boys. So whatever. Like, I'm coming back from the party and everybody's getting Bolognese. Exactly. So she's like, whatever. But the thing is he's asleep when he's doing these things, which is the problem, right?

He like manages to unlock the combination on the fridge. She manages to get the zip ties off and she's like, okay, that explains a lot of stuff, but it doesn't explain like why you don't have rugs. Like you could still have rugs. Why is there a plastic cover on the couch? And at this Spencer blushes. Well, this is because of pissing and shitting. Yes.

Spencer is like, this is the worst part. And Bam puts his hand on Spencer's shoulder and is like, you don't have to tell her, man. And Spencer's like, no, bro, you told me that she's important. If she's important to you, she's important to me. This is so beautiful. Crystal is like, I would die for these two dumbest boys I have ever met in my life. Like I love them.

And then Spencer tells her what you already correctly guessed, which is that if he has too much to drink, if there's stuff in his bladder, he gets up and in his sleepwalking, he tries to pee in the wrong places. And this is embarrassing and he feels really bad about it. And I understand that feeling. tries to pee in the wrong places. And this is embarrassing and he feels really bad about it. And I understand that feeling. Yeah. And Crystal is like, Oh no, Spencer, like, I'm so sorry. Like I didn't I called you a werewolf and you're like clearly struggling. Like I didn't mean to do that. And Spencer's

like, it's okay, man. Like, don't worry about it. How are you feeling at this point? I feel very satisfied with their explanation. Their solution seems completely in line with what I know about these people who like to solve problems, right? Want burger in morning, eat night burger. Spencer doesn't have control of his faculties when he sleeps, so we lock everything down. So it all seems very reasonable. Yeah, it all seems very understandable. It's not reasonable. Like, or not. Yeah, it all seems very understandable. It's not reasonable. Yeah. No, it's not reasonable. It's ridiculous. But it feels like of a piece. These guys are cohesive. Yeah, I do want to note something here, which is that you can take medications for sodium ameliorism. Like low doses of antidepressants prescribed by your doctor, Benzos. Spencer has these prescriptions. And like this can be controlled if he takes his

drugs and doesn't drink any liquids for several hours before bed but because he is a 22 year old boy he does not take the pills consistently and he always drinks before bed and so he's convinced that they don't work. Oh that's that see there it is that's the rub and that's where it's like they have this beautiful friendship that transcends piss and shit and cuts on the hands from the box the box cutter you have to use to get a cup but it and even it transcends problem solving. Yes. Yes. So they've just like kind of adjusted this to this life for themselves, which is beautiful in a way, right? Like they have zip ties and duct tape and those things

are waterproof. So I guess whatever. Yeah. After their fifth date, Bam asks Crystal to be his girlfriend. I'm rooting for Bam and Crystal at this point. She says yes. She says she's like, of course, I really like you Bam. But being Bam's girlfriend is like kind of like having a misbehaved dog. Like she's like, I love you and Spencer so much, but you both have like a brain disease that makes you be like, I wonder what would happen if we did this. And then you just do it without thinking of consequences. So like once Bam tackled Spencer into a pile of garbage bags, and then they both had to get tetanus shots And when asked why he did this he said I thought it would be funny This is you have to understand that's not something I would do

however, I was just hanging out with a friend that I've known since I was four years old and We were talking about another friend who I've known since I was seven years old Yeah, and they went to see the band, No Effects on their final tour recently. And they were a little stoned. And my friend saw like they start, they like launch into a song. Yeah. And my friend looks at the mosh pit and goes, I feel like I got to defend something and it just runs into the mall. So like it's still in there.

It's in there somewhere. The bro never dies. You just like, you just put him to sleep and hope he doesn't sleep. Yes. And the funniest thing about the way that Spencer and Bam are together is that Bam, when he has like more than two beers, gets like a Cheshire cat grin, right? Like everyone's like, Bam's drunk. Like, look at him. He looks so happy. Spitzer never seems drunk. Like he can be three sheets to the wind and he just seems totally normal. So like one time they went bowling, smashed on fireball shots and Spitzer

was just like casually bowling strikes, just like absolutely hammered while Bam was like yelling and dancing with grandmas, right? The seasons change, a few months go by, Crystal and Bam tell each other they love each other. She comes to appreciate Spencer. She's like, he's sweet, he's affable, he's shy. Like, I hate that he's so self-conscious about the sleepwalking thing, right? Like he's so down on himself. And she's like, everyone loves him. Everyone wants him to overcome this. And she's like, selfishly, I would really like if Spencer had a girlfriend because then I would have someone to like talk to while the two of you

are tackling each other into garbage bags. Sure, sure, sure. Right. Well, you're, well, you're like seeing who can let each other slap him in the face the hardest. Exactly. So she's like, Spencer, do you want to date any of my friends? But Spencer is like a cliche superhero. He's like, I can't, I can't anyone close like for their own sake. I have to protect others. Okay, Batman. Yeah, exactly. But then one day Crystal comes into the apartment and Bam and Spencer are arguing this never happens. So she's like, what is going on here? She's like, what's up, boys?

And Bam's like, oh, nothing. Just Natalie is having a party. And Crystal's like, who's Natalie? Natalie is Spencer's high school crush. She knows how to longboard. She's trilingual. She understands past interference in football. And she has personally invited

him to this party. Do they go to college together and Natalie's also there? And Spencer is still like, no, she doesn't want me there. She just asked me to be nice. And Crystal is like, I don't really believe that. And Bam is like, can you show Crystal the text? And so Spencer shows her the text and the text is like, hey, with like eight y's. Cannot believe we see

so little of each other. I'm having a totally chill party on Saturday. Would love it if you came bring BAM, bring whoever I'd love to see you. I, this is so this is smart. I think it's sincere. I mean, it all seems sincere, but to say bring BAM is like she knows how to get Spencer to go somewhere. He needs his emotional support, Bam. Yes. And Spencer to Crystal is like, this is a form text. And Crystal's like, oh, it just is everyone that she's inviting to this party has a roommate named Bam. Like, what are you talking about? She's like, oh, are you going to bring, is Bam H going to be there?

Exactly. And Spencer's like, maybe she just wants Bam there. And Crystal's like, I really don't think so. Like I think she wants you there. All week, they're trying to convince Spencer to go to this party. They're like, come on, man, like you can do it. Just like love yourself enough to be open. That's so beautiful. Bam is like, Spencer's my best friend.

I want him to go see his crush and find love. How do you convince Spencer to go to this party? What's your move here? I think Bam and Crystal are like, we'd really like to go to this party, but we'd like it if you came with us. It would be more fun if you were there too, because you know Natalie better than us,

but like we would really like to go to a party tonight. That's what seems like a really reasonable thing to do. What Bam does is go, I dare you to go. And this is enough. That rips. Yeah, that checks out. Because they love dares. So the three of them go to the party. Dude, you won't. Yeah, exactly. There was a kid, a kid I went to high school with who just walked through the halls, just being like pointing at people like, you won't kid. It't kid like it was never the referent of what you won't do was never declared just you won't wow you would just say it all day long okay are you ready to go to this party yeah Natalie's apartment is like all the way across campus. So it's like a two mile walk.

Okay. Bam is like hyping Spencer up the whole time, right So it's like a two mile walk. Okay. Bam is like hyping Spencer up the whole time, right? He's like, you're going to be the hottest one there. She's going to love you. Maybe you'll kiss. Maybe you'll fall in love. Maybe you'll spend the night. And Spencer is like, no, we're not going to try and stay the night there or kiss her or anything like that. And Bam's like, maybe you will. Maybe you might. They get to the party, Natalie comes straight to Spencer and gives him a big hug. So they're like, it seems like she likes you.

Spencer's like, no, she doesn't. Spencer, he's closing his heart to possibility. Yeah. And I feel an ache for him, a pain. The main event at this party is beer pong, which obviously Bam and Spencer love. So they have to wait like a long time to get the turn because you have to wait for like people to lose. You know?

So it sounds like they're well versed in all the ping pong arts. These guys will take you on right? If it's like ping pong, beer pong, ping pong ball eating competition. They would win 100%. Around 10, Crystal gets a text from her roommate, who's at some club where everyone is dancing. And she's like, I'm just standing at this party watching Bam and Spencer wait to play beer pong. So she's like, Bam, do you care if I like bounce for a bit and go to a club with my friend? And Bam's like, of course not have fun. And she's like, you're good here. And Bam's like, yeah, we're totally good.

Now there's no adult. Yes, it's like they're free. There's no one to corral. There's no Bam and Spencer whisperer. Yes. I'd like Bam and Spencer have been alone together a lot for many years. So like they'll live, but it's like, who knows what they're going to do. Right?

Yeah, right. I mean, this is like anything at a college party. Unless you come from great tragic and heartbreak when you're at a party like this, you're like, well, as long as I'm within the confines of the party, I will never die. Yes. Crystal is like, I'm going to the club by she goes to the club. She dances. She does a few shots. She's having a blast. She does not look at her phone.

Around 2 a.m., she's like, I'm done dancing. Good time to finish, yeah. Yeah, she goes outside, she looks at her phone, she has 15 texts from Bam. That's a lot. And that's like an ongoing situation, right? If there's like one burst of scare, it's like five texts max.

And then that's more. But, um, but this is like, hey, uh, would love to hear from you. You know what I mean? Like just follow it up. Yes. Like if I walked out of a movie and had 15 texts from anyone in a group chat, I would be like, oh no. Right. Yep. Here are the texts. No, right? Yep. Here are the texts. 105. Miss you. Sweet. 107. Going great. Natalie talking to Spencer. Eyes emoji. They're on fire. 110. We won again. 115. We won again in all caps. Okay, this is now we're starting to get troubling because now you picture the smile, you're like, even if you're winning, he's not they're not it's not pitching a shutout, right? So they've been drinking some beers as they're getting ponged. At 116, she gets two text messages. One of them says, OMG, Natalie making eyes at Spencer. The second says, Oh,

Uh-oh. That sounds like Spencer has unhinged his jaw and swallowed Natalie. Oh, at 117 in all caps is a text that says Spencer left. Uh-oh. Then there is a 15 minute break at 134. She gets a text that says, wow, I cannot run anymore. That's such a funny text to get from someone you were not aware gets a text that says, wow, I cannot run anymore. That's such a funny text to get from someone you were not aware was running.

Yeah. That sounds like what you say, like 30 seconds before the Terminator catches and murders you at one 45, there are two messages. So 10 minutes after, wow, I can't run anymore. She gets JK. I'm good at running again and was just tired or something. This guy rules at one 46. She gets two more messages. The first you are not going to believe this shit. The second I'm laughing so hard I'm gonna die. At 148, she gets uh-oh. At 149, she gets help.

Wow. At 150, she gets Spencer is lost in all caps. Call me when you get this. All of these texts are from within 45 minutes of each other. Yeah, the whole range of human emotion. Yes. There are also texts on Crystal's phone from an unknown number. Okay. And there are two of those. And the first text says, hey, this is Natalie.

The second text says, bam, said to text you for help. BAM said to text you for help. If you're Crystal and the last text that she's gotten is only 10 minutes before she's seeing this, right? So she's like, I'm not that out of the loop. What do you do if you're Crystal here? Call him. Yeah, she calls him. It goes straight to voicemail. She's like, this is not surprising. BAM's phone is always dead, but it is concerning. Right. So she calls Natalie, right? Because she's like, Natalie is in my phone now, I guess. So she calls Natalie and she's like, hey, it's Crystal. I called Bam's phone, but I think it's dead.

Like, can you put him on? And Natalie is like, oh, he's not here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He took Spencer home. She's like, Spencer had an asthma attack. And Crystal's like, oh my God, I didn't know that Spencer had asthma. And Natalie's like, yeah, I really hope he's okay. Like, can you let me know if he is when you find out?

And Crystal's like, yeah, of course. Crystal is like, all right, well, now I'm not going home. Now I'm going to Bam and Spencer's because I want to know what's going on here. She goes over there, she lets herself in, she has a key. They're both in beds asleep. She goes into Bam's bed and she's like on here. She goes over there, she lets herself in, she has a key. They're both in beds asleep. She goes into Bam's bed and she's like, hi. And Bam's like, oh, hi, I'm so glad you're here. And she's like, is Spencer okay? And Bam's like, oh yeah, he's drunk as shit, but I put him in his sleeping bag like he's going to bed.

And she's like, what happened tonight? And he's like, I'll tell you in the morning. And she's like, okay, they go to sleep. They wake up at noon. Sure. Bam makes coffee. They're drinking it when Spencer comes out of his room, and he's like kind of holding his head. And he's like, Oh, my god, I'm so embarrassed. I can't believe I blew like my chance with this girl that I had a crush on for ages. And Bam's like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, what are you talking about? And Spencer's like, Natalie texted me and she said, and he reads it off his phone. How are you? Are you okay? Do you need anything? I'm worried. And Spencer's like, I'm so embarrassed. Like, what did I do? Did I fall asleep there?

Like, was I bad? Like, did I sleepwalk everywhere and eat all her food? And Bam is like, do you not remember last night? And Spencer's like, my dude, not at all. And Bam's like, oh my God. And he's like, clearly thrilled. He's like, I mean, you should be embarrassed probably, but not for the reason you think. Wow. Well, first of all, we're crushing it beer pong. I hate how mind-melded you are because he begins to proceed to tell both Spencer and Crystal what happened the night before. And he's like, Crystal, after you left, we got onto beer pong.

We played six rounds. We won all six. Bam and Spencer high five. He's like, we lost one round. That was devastating. Spencer goes, no. The stakes have never been higher. Crystal's like, I don't care about this part. Keep going. He's like, after the loss, we got kicked off the table.

Spencer has to know. He has to know he was a legend. Yes. Bam's like, but then when we weren't playing beer pong anymore, Yes. Bam's like, but then when we weren't playing beer pong anymore, Spencer could talk to Natalie. And I was like, oh, that's great. I was like, Spencer, you should go talk to her. Like you should ask her if you could stay the night. And Spencer was like, why would I do that? And Bam was like, well, we don't want to walk all the way back to our place drunk. That's a perfect excuse. And Spencer's like, but you know, I can't spend the night. And Bam's like, I would have your back. Spencer at this point had been nervously drinking for hours. So he was like, I just want to go home, right? Like Natalie is beginning to flirt with me. I am scared and he leaves.

This is the first time when Bam texted Spencer's gone. Bam waits because he's like, Spencer, I'll be back. But like 15 minutes later, Spencer is not back. And so Bam is like, ah, shit. And so he goes after him and he jogs and he is so tired. And at this point he stops to text Crystal and is like, I'm so bad at running. Then he catches up with Spencer. And Spencer is like, why are you running? And Bam's like, you have to believe in yourself, man. You have to believe in love. Like you have to give yourself a shot. And Spencer is like, I love you and I'm obsessed with you, but like I'm too scared.

And Spencer, I think at this point, tonight's not the night. He's too drunk. He's in his head. It's not happening. And yeah, it's not gonna happen. And he's, I don't think he would have a nice time if he went back and tried to talk to

her. Bam, at this point has his Cheshire cat smile on and he's like, I know how to fix this. And in mischief mode, he's like, I dare you to ask her out. And Spencer's like, no, no, I'm not doing a dare about this. It's too much. Your bam, your dare usually works. It has not worked this time. What else could you do? You want to go back to the party and you want Spencer to go talk to Natalie. You, um, you could physically drag him. Yeah, that is an option.

Okay. Um, it doesn't feel out of the question for these guys. You could, um, you could like ask him, you know, you could be like, bro, this means the world to me as a bro, bro to bro. Um, or you could, you could reach out to Natalie and try to get her to help and snare Spencer to go back to the party. All great options. What Bam does is he goes, I'll race you back to the house. If I get there first, I'm telling her that you want to go on a date with her. Good. This is better than my options. What Bam does is he goes, I'll race you back to the house. If I get there first, I'm telling her that you want to go on a date with her. Good. This is better than my options. Spencer considers this for a moment and then he takes off back toward the house at a full

sprint. Wow. This surprises Bam. Bam loves it. He bolts off after him. They're now in a race. We've got a foot race back to the house. Bam eats shit on some stairs at the campus. And so he loses a bunch of time. Spencer is beelining for the party. He has no plan.

The only thought in his drunken brain is that he has to get to Natalie first so that Bam won't tell her that he has a crush on her. He's running. He pulls ahead. He bursts through the door like Kramer and Seinfeld are like the fucking Kool-Aid man. Bam is like coming up behind him, but by the time Bam gets there, everyone in the party

is silently staring at Spencer, including Natalie. Who's just like, ugh, ugh. Yes. Katy Perry's California Girls is playing at full volume. And he's not very California Girls right now. No. Bam, at this point, texts Crystal that actually he can run after all. Which is good.

Yeah. How would you play this? You've burst into the apartment at full speed. Your crush is there. You only now realize that you had no plan for once you arrive. Well, I think I would be like, I went to get some air, Bam, bet me he could get back to the band, Bam found me and bet me he could race him back to the party. Don't tell the other stuff because you don't have to tell the stuff.

What Spencer does is have an asthma attack. Except the thing is, Spencer does not have asthma. Yeah. So everyone is like, is this poor idiot going to die in our apartment? Right? Like they're like, he can't breathe. Someone help him. Natalie is so concerned. She like runs over. She's like, bam, what's wrong with him? And bam's like, I don't know. Like I don't know what's going on here. And Spencer like trying for the Emmy uses a raspy voice to be like, asthma. I think I've got the black lung pops. Bam is like losing his mind.

He's like, Spencer does not have asba. As he's telling this in the kitchen the next morning, Spencer is just going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Bam, this is the only time in this part of the story that I think Bam has made a mistake because it's like you got to you've got to confirm your brother's alibi. Oh and he does Bam is a fucking thespian and he's like oh no he's having an asthma attack he's like Natalie text my girlfriend hurry this is her. Wow oh wow

okay. Maybe she can bring his inhaler there is no inhaler meanwhile Bam is like you got to get it together man like you got to sit down and you got to breathe slow. So Spencer does this. He sits down. Some nursing major brings him coffee. That is like, they say caffeine can help in an asthma attack. And Spencer and Bam, they don't know if this is true or not. So Spencer just drinks the coffee anyway. Sure. Right. They don't know how to solve this fake problem. Yes. They're just like, I heard you going

to let someone kick you in the throat. I guess that's what we're doing now. I don't know otherwise. So after he's drunk the coffee and they've decided that it's been a sufficient amount of time, they're like, we've got it under control. He's he's we've managed his attack. And Natalie's like, Oh my god, I'm so glad like I was so worried. Like, I don't think you guys should walk back. Like he just had an asthma attack. I really think you should stay the night. Bam is elated by this. Spencer is mortified and he bolts. Oh, that's good. At this point, Bam is laughing so hard he can't breathe and everyone is like, you need to go get your friend.

Like he was just having an asthma attack and now he's running and bam's like, you're so right. So Bam chases him home. That's great. This is like what it would have been like to date Travis Kelsey while he was in college. Yes, it's just, but he has that like when, when people talk about his, like, kind of, like, exuberant puppy dog energy, it's like, this is what that looks like until you focus it into, like, you have to, like, have car insurance and stuff.

We are almost at the very end. How do you feel? Whose side are you on? Well, I feel like everybody's doing their best here, but I think Crystal knew knows what she's in for. I don't think she was wrong to leave. She wasn't having a good time at the party. Yeah.

Was having a better time dancing. Yeah. I think Bam, his heart was in the right place, but he was misguided to try to trick Spencer into flirting back with Natalie Hammerd. Yes. Also after forcing him to sprint, right? trick Spencer into flirting back with Natalie hammered. Also, after forcing him to sprint, right? Spencer was he made the mistake of lying about the asthma attack. But I feel like this is 50 50 a lie that you can explain away and just be like,

I was so drunk and embarrassed. I said this because I was like huffing and puffing and a race band. And then you parlay it into because blah, blah, blah, blah. That's the gambit that I would attempt if I was 22. And that I think would have worked. Spencer is like smacking himself in the head because he's like, I fucked with so bad.

Like I pretended to have asthma. I never made a move. I don't remember any of this at all. And it sounds hilarious. This is like drinking blue Gatorade when there's a lemon line right there. Exactly. And Crystal is like, I don't really think you fucked it up that bad because I talked to Natalie on the phone last night and they're both like, what?

And she's like, yeah, bam, your phone was dead. So I called Natalie to make sure you weren't both dead. And I was like, worried. And Natalie was really worried about you. Like she seemed to really care. Crystal's like, so I think if you play this right, this could be great for you. And so she helps him craft a text to ask Natalie to get coffee, right? Very low stakes.

And he and Natalie went to get coffee, and they did end up dating, and they dated for eight months. And the whole time Spencer pretended to have asthma. Oh no, you can't, you can't, you can't keep the, you've got to ditch the lie because it's not a cute lie. It's not like, oh yeah, I said my favorite movie was your favorite movie, so we can go to that movie together.

This is like, you're scared for my life every time I go, and that's too, the stakes of the lie are too high. Yeah. They broke up not because of the lie, just because it wasn't like, it was good for eight months and then it wasn't. But during that time, Natalie gave him some self-confidence, right? Because Spencer was like, oh, I dated this really cute girl that I had a crush on for a long time and it didn't work out, but that means that I am at least kind of cute, right? And this helped because

once he had a little self-confidence in himself, he started taking his medication and he turned into a brunch boy so that he could stop drinking before bed. Wow. This is like a, this would make a beautiful children's book for, for 19 year olds, like a picture book for 19 year olds. Yeah. And that is beautiful to me. Do you have any final thoughts on this story? You know, I hope they all continue to grow and learn and, and look within. And I think their friendships are so beautiful. And I'm like, I'm really, I'm happy that Spencer gave himself the gift of believing in himself with the help of his friends.

I think that's so nice. Yeah, I'm really upset to have learned that you would eat a night burger, but otherwise I had a great time. I mean, I'm about to be on the road for three nights in Denver. And it's like, it is all better off. It's night burger hours. I mean, even if I had an unpadlocked refrigerator, a refrigerated burger, No, Josh. tastes worse than a roomated burger. No, Josh. Tastes worse than a room temp burger. This is so upsetting.

I hate this. It's not a goal. It's not a goal to eat a night burger. I'm just saying I would eat a night burger still. Josh, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure to have you. Thank you for having me. It was such a joy to get to Gabichan.

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossipatdefector.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormal normal gossip.com You can follow the show on Instagram and tik-tok at normal gossip You can follow Kelsey on all social media at at McKinney Kelsey This podcast was produced by Alex Sujohn Laughlin Ozzy Lena's Goodman and Jay Tolvera

Justin Ellis is defectors projects editor Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's Business Guys. Alex Sujon Loughlin is Defector's Supervising Producer. Tom Lay is our Editor-in-Chief. Abigail Siegel is our Intern. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacobi designed our show art. Thank you to Rachel Hampton, Brandi Jensen, Sabrina

Imblir, Dave McKenna, Chris Thompson, Heather Chen, Ray Rado, David Roth, Katherine Hsu, Jasper Wang, Israel Dara Mola, and Patrick Redford for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned, subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm Sarah, and remember, you did not hear this from me. Radio Topia from PRX.