Normal Gossip - 'Til Deb Do Us Part with Caroline Moss and Sally Tamarkin

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Sally Tamarkin and Caroline Moss get extremely triggered in this episode about a chill bride and her blissfully oblivious wedding weekend. PSA: This is the ninth of ten episodes this season! Get ready babes!!!! Follow Sally on Twitter @sallyt and follow Caroline on IG @geethanksjustboughtitpod You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs). Diana Moskovitz is our story editor. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jae Towle Vieira is our production assistant. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Credits recorded by Crystal Mendoza.

Alex, do you think that we should tell them our little secret? I think we should. Our secret is that we are going on tour this summer. Woo! We're going to be sharing a new gossip story with you all, but this time, live on a stage. There will be special guests and glow sticks and games. It's going to be so messy. You can get tickets at normalgossipive.com and bring your secrets.

Because we're gonna reap them. Shee. Shee. Shee. Shee. Shee. Shee. Shee.

Shee. Hello and welcome to the pin ultimate episode of NormalGossip. Pin Ultimate means second to last. So bad news. The episode next week is the last one of the season, but good news, you have this one, and you have the one next week,

so incredible, we love it. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and in each episode of this podcast, we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am so excited to have with me today too, special guests. Sally Tomarkin has been an editor and writer since 2014. Before that, they were a community

organizer. They love playing tabletop role-playing games and hanging out with their best friend television. You can find her online on Twitter at SallyT and her website is at Sally.Gay. Caroline Moss is also here. Caroline has been the host of G-Thanks just bought it, a podcast about the things we buy and love since 2019. She's the author of Hey Ladies and the Work It Kids book series and an alumni of many 2010s media outlets. You can find her on Instagram at G-thanks just bought it, Pod. Caroline and Sally, welcome to the pod. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here. How are you both doing?

Tell me about your day. I mean, I'm doing great. I will say there is an ice cream truck that's been parked on my block perhaps right outside my window. It feels and sounds like for a while. So I apologize in advance if you're hearing a jingle nonstop forever in your brain.

What level of sanity are you currently at? Like is it traveling away or? You know the emoji with like the spirals for eyes? Yes. That's I'm that currently. Okay, I'm worried about that. Caroline, do you also have an ice cream truck outside your house? No, but my day is going great because early this morning, I sent an ice cream truck to the cellist house just to sit outside and idle for a few hours. So I'm glad to know I'm getting my money's worth. Um.

Mm. Mm. She's noting. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Do you both want to start me off with the classic question

and tell me what your relationship with Gossip is. Yeah, I will personally love it. You know, my senior year of high school, I'll have you know, 2005, I was voted biggest drama queen and that was different than most theatrical and the one everyone to just understand that there's had nothing to do with being a theater kid, which I was, but I think it was my predilection for gossip that awarded me biggest drama queen, but they took it away from me because they were like, this feels mean. It feels like a mean one and we're not, we're not going to do it. But they had already not, we were like, because we were like, they had already named you, but

we were like, it's not mean. Yeah, like we were, it was like, we like everyone voted and we got the votes and it was like, Max and I were like, don't take it away, it's not me. And they were like, no, no, no, this is very mean to you. And we're like, it's not me. We want this. We want this. What are the Gospiest communities that you've,

you've been a part of? Oh, media. Like all of media. New York media. It's not even a question for you. I would say yeah, for sure media media in like an IRL experience, especially when I lived in New York and was a little younger. There is one community that I'm a part of. I've talked a little bit about on G-Tanks a long time ago, but I don't want to give away the

Facebook group. But you message me privately, I will direct you to it. There is a Facebook group for people who identify as women who love Bath and Body Work. Okay. And there's a lot of fighting. And it's like thousands and thousands of women fighting. Oh, what aren't they fighting about? Like, I would say the biggest, the biggest, like source. If you want to get some engagement, if you're looking for an argument, if you just need that dopamine hit if you're seeing comment after comment, it's the people who show up on Candle Day.

Beth and Body Works does this thing called Candle Day, where there are three-wit candles, or like 11.95 instead of 24.95, and people purge. That's the bodywork of purge. The purge. Yeah, absolutely. And people have their favorites,

and there's no limit to how many you can buy. And so people will post their hauls. And then it starts fights in the comments about like, you know, we live in a society and also like, you know, there wasn't a rule. I can get 60 candles. And then the other thing about that community that I love that's not necessarily gossip, but I do go there for all of the information I like bring to parties. So I guess for me, it's gossip is that there is some sort of people don't seem to burn the candles. It's more like collections. So they have like storage units full of unburned candles. Imagine walking into a bathroom body works for five or five minutes and smelling. But it would smell so good. Sally, no, no.

No, that one candle in a room smells good. Like 80 different-sended candles. Shab to the closet. It's like, you're bringing a storage unit. It's full of Bath and Body Works candles. Oh no, Sally's gonna about to admit that they have candles on comedy candles. You didn't know what you're saying.

Like, you have a storage unit full. It burns out and you open your window in the morning and you get that freesia and juniper breeze. Just wafting in. What's not to like? There's also like aspects of that group. They've started sort of doing a weird MLM inside of the candle group where you like you pay.

I mean, look, I always want to get in there and be like ladies when someone asked you to pay pal them to enter you know it's not a raffle but it's definitely one of the classic MLMs it's like you find 20 people to enter for $10 and then whoever wins at the top like wins this whole thing and it's like they it's a separate group from the candle group but you can only get there through the camera like that bar and men with the hot dogs. Yeah. Seriously, I like Sarah Cain egg, like call me.

Honestly, no, Kelsey, it should be like a spin off. This is normal gossip. Normal gossip investigations. Normal candles. The second candle group is really C. Well, the second candle group, you can only get into. If they call it, they call it like get active, stay active. So you have to sort of like commit a level of personal engagement

in the original candle group to be invited into the group where you can like win. And I do a big air quote, Chanel bags. So it's a lot, but I've obsessed with it. And that's media is my favorite IRL community of gossip and general and then the Bath & Body Works scandal group is my online community. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home.

I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I wanted my two home. I kind of a thing. I think that's a great idea. Sally, truly, you guys, you're not the first people to think of it.

Like so many people, there's so many people I've heard because I just, okay, I spend a lot of time thinking about this group. There's so many people have tried and they get caught and they get like banned immediately. So like, I won't even, I won't even, I'm ready to call the feds on the person who leads that second MLM group though, because there is something really financially unstable. that second MLM group though, because there is something really financially unstable, unstable happening. We are always saying on this show

to be aware and be careful around Facebook groups. They are dangerous places and handles because only you can prevent for it. Two really good safety tips. Okay, last question and then we will do the story because both of you talk about products often and purchasing products, I would like to talk about the relationship between

word of mouth and gossip, right? So hearing everyone's using this or every celebrity is getting, I bag filler or whatever it is, the kind of thin line between gossip and word of mouth and how that plays into like choosing what you buy and how you interact in the world. Oh, I mean, that's sort of why we started, do you think, just bought it?

And I know we didn't mention it at the top of the show, but Sally now co-host the podcast arm of do you think, just bought it with me, but it's also a Facebook group and it's an Instagram group and Instagram community. You know, it kind of started because it's like you really like don't know who to trust, and I wanted to build a community of people that, you know, it's not necessarily why, like, do you think this isn't really about the wire cutter? Like I'm not looking for the best of anything, but I am kind of looking for a place where people can be like, a great example of this is, like, there was a big sort of conversation about strollers, like, which is the best? And then the answer was that, like, there is no best stroller,

but I can tell you, if you live in a city and using the stroller as your, while you're walking, is your, like, number one way of transportation, this stroller is much better on pivoting than the other one. This one packs up and fits in the car better, and that might be more important to you. And you get kind of reviews from real people who are like, hey, this is my life, if this sounds like you,

this is the thing that worked for me. Rather than being like, we have this weird rubric that no one really totally understands, but like, this is the best. And then you're like, I don't know what that means, or you kind of feel duped when you get it. And you're like, this wasn't the best for me at all. A thing that also we, like I really try to strive at G-Things in Sally 2, just because we do the show together.

Now is that like, there's so many people that sometimes DM and they're like, oh, I love that, like the suitcase you're talking about. But I love my suitcase. So should I still get this one? I'm like, no. You love the thing you have. I'm like, this is for the people who don't love the thing they have

or don't have the thing and need the thing. But like the amount of people who like, I'm already totally 100% fulfilled by this thing. Do I need to replace it with this thing? I'm like, oh my God, no. No, literally never. It's literally never. It's literally never.

Don't ask me again. Yeah, exactly. Don Draper was always saying this. Yeah. But you're, a purchase isn't going to match up to like the aesthetic that is also presented sort of as the context to that purchase. It's like, oh, this thing looks amazing in your home because your home looks amazing,

because your home is beautiful, because there's lots of other expensive things in your home. Like, that's why this thing looks so great, because it's the backdrop of it is so, so nice. So, it's on the consumer, I think, to be a little bit more conscious. But I also think it's like, yeah, trust the experts, but also know that you know what's best. Yeah. Are you ready? You want to do a gossip? Let's do a gossip.

I'm so ready. Let's do one gossip as a treat. And gossip. It is a morning in July. The sun is out, the air is hot. We are packing a car. We're checking our little list for the things that we need. We're picking out the tunes on our phone. We're like doing the Google Maps, right? Our friend of a friend,

we're going to call her Rose and her fiance are leading the city weight. She's doing the checklist on her phone and when she's looking at it, it's like already past the time that they're supposed to be gone. Stressful. Yeah. By the time the car is on the road, it's an hour after they wanted to leave. And she texts her family on the road, it's an hour after they wanted to leave. She texts her family and is like, it's Sally's already got a game. I'm really mad. I'm already mad.

I'm literally already mad at her partner. So she texts her family and is like, we're on our way. But they're not really on their way because they are in one of those cities that's not directly next to a highway. So it takes forever to get out of the city and onto the highway. How are we feeling? Currently. You both look terrified. I'm sweating. No. I'm feeling no. My banter is no. I feel horrible. I feel personally attacked. This is so stressful.

This is so stressful. And the amount of work I've done on myself to not be someone who falls apart when travel plans get like messed up. It has a lot of into nothing. Yeah, I can't. Are you kidding? Leaving late out of a city that's not on a highway when there's only like a, like a, only a few years. Also, you said it's late in the day.

So they're on picturing rush hour traffic. Also, it's hot because it's July. Oh my god. It's a nightmare. Rose is stressed because they're going upstate. They're going like to the woods, right? And they're not just going upstate for the weekend with her family. They're going upstate for her wedding. Rose is wedding. Rose is wedding now. Wow. Wait, who is Rose traveling? Her fiance.

Well, that wedding is not happening. They have roses like I have a lot to do. Right like roses like the rehearsal is tonight. I haven't done my nails. My like makeup is not done and we are an hour late. And she's comforting herself by being like, it's fine, it's fine. We're going to get there. I would I I would, I need to be on bad rest. Can, I know if this is a part of the story, that's okay, but I'm curious about what the fiance is saying or doing throughout this. So the fiance is not super important

to this entire story, but the fiance is like chill and stuff, right? The fiance has like, it's fine, it's our weekend. Okay. We'll get there when we get there. Okay, but is it the fiance's fault that they're late because there could be nothing worse to me than the fiance being like, no, it's fine.

I'm like, it's actually not fine. It's actually your fault. Rose is not as stressed as the two of them. Okay, okay, okay, that's helpful. That's helpful for you, Rose. Okay, okay, okay. That's the problem. Okay, okay.

They're on the interstate. Five million years on the interstate, right? Because we've left late, now we're in bumper to bumper traffic. It takes forever. They get off the interstate. Five million years on the interstate, right? Because we've left late, now we're in bumper to bumper traffic. It takes forever. They get off the interstate. They have to go on one of those weavy highways that's like two lanes, right? People are always turning off.

This also takes forever. Finally, by the time they turn into the gravel drive, like where this big house that they've rented for the weekend is, they're like three hours later than they're supposed to be. Oh! Don't vomit. they're supposed to be. Oh! Don't vomit, it's going to be fine. Okay. There are like 15 people staying in the house for this wedding weekend.

We are not going to learn all of their names because that is a lot of people. The only people you need to know are roses' nuclear family, okay? Her brother Kurt, his wife Heather is also roses made of honor. Rose's brother's wife is Rose's made of honor. Okay. Yes. Very close with her sister in law. Exactly.

And her sister in law is Heather. And then their dad is there, Kurt and Rose is dad. And dad's wife Deb. Okay, what's Rose and Kurt's dad's name? Not important, we're calling him dad. All right, can we name him Paul? Yeah, Paul, Paul. Paul, okay.

Paul, Rose and dad. Paul and Deb, Deb is Paul's wife, not Rose's mother. Exactly, and the only thing you need to know about Deb is that they both Kurt and Rose refer to Deb as Dad's wife and never say that's that's gonna leave a mark. I've read our slash AITA. This feels important. And this comes up a lot. Let me tell you. Okay, I've written this all down. I feel visually prepared for more information. I like that you're both taking notes. That's very you're very prepared to continue the story.

Okay, we are. Carpools in Rose is like so excited because she's like, oh my God, all my favorite people are here, right? It's my wedding weekend, my whole family's here. Great, she like basically barrel rolls out of this car. Kurt's dog comes like running out to greet her and she's like, this is the best day of my life.

She's getting her face looked by the dog. She's petting the dog, the dogs in the best mood. Everything's great. She hugs Kurt. She's like, how is everything? And Kurt's like, well, Debs not here yet. And Rose is like, okay, I mean, that's fine. We're not leaving for dinner

for like another couple hours. Like, isn't that okay? And Kurt's like, yeah, but dad told me that Deb does not want the dog to be here when she gets here and this is Kurt's dog Okay, okay, how do you feel about this? It's my wedding not my fucking problem like okay, then like don't First of all Kurt, I don't think I think that if there's one thing we all know about attending weddings, is that you can't bring large structural problems about the wedding itself to the bride.

So, that's not a good judgment on Kurt's part, but the other thing is I would say about Deb, you need to probably get that worked out before it arrives. Yeah. And then you have to decide, I feel like Kurt and Deb need to figure out who's not staying in the house versus like you know figuring it out in this moment Rose is also like Deb's never met the dog So like how does Deb know that she doesn't want this dog here and Kurt's like well dad says that Deb thinks that dogs are dirty Again, this just does not feel like a conversation for this moment.

End rose. But again, knowing what we know about rose, not stressed about being three hours late to her own wedding weekend, it's like, yeah, I'm also kind of not to be judgemental, but I guess I'm being judgemental. Not kind of not surprised that this is now coming to a head at this time. Yes, because these are big details that Should if it were me. I just yeah should have been figured out like Debs opinion about dogs like sort of not necessary Unfortunately coming into play because you brought your dog. Yeah, it's just like okay. Well There's the dog specifically invited to the white,

like this whole thing just kind of feels like superfluous drama. Yes, that is the theme of today's episode. Superfluous drama. Rose is pleasure. Rose is like, we're in the middle of nowhere. There's nowhere for this dog to go. Like it's not like where someone where there's like

nice dog boarding or we can get on Rover and find someone to take the dog for the evening. Like Rose is like, the dog is our friend. I want the dog here, the dog stays. Kurt's like, great, thank you. This problem is now solved, right? Kurt's like, there's also some drama with their rooms. Kurt is an Asian of chaos.

Heather, his wife, is like, this is not a thing that she needs to deal with. Like, this is not her problem. Heather, also the maid of honor. So that's sort of her job, anyway. Heather's like, I will show Rose to her room, stop bothering her with these problems. Like, we will take care of it. And Rose is like, okay great. So Heather, like shows her into this beautiful big room. It's like the primary suite. It has a big bath. And Rose is like, oh my God, so nice of you to like save this for me.

It's so nice. And Heather's like, well, one, it is your wedding. And two, you getting this room is the only thing that anyone could agree on. And Rose is like, what? And Heather's like, oh yeah, there's been drama over everything so far. And Rose is like, oh yeah, there's been drama over everything so far. And roses like, what did I, what else did I miss?

And Heather's like, well, we also don't have any coffee. Oh my God. See now this is why you don't book a wedding weekend with your entire nuclear family in a house. Everyone thinks it's a good idea, but no one wants to be the email baron. No one wants to be the person who two months ago is like, okay I talked to the property manager and we have to bring our own coffee and there's going to be

like, no this and I asked for the layout of the rooms and we're all going to look at the room. So this is the exact problem, is that Rose's whole, like, Modus operandi of this whole thing is that she's like, I'm a chill bride. That means like everything becomes everyone else's problem. Is that what's gonna be a chill bride? No, exactly. That's exactly what it means.

Yeah, no such thing. She's like, I don't wanna be a bridezilla. I don't wanna be crazy about everything, but because she's like, I wanna be chill, quote unquote chill, what means is that nothing is planned correctly. Oh my God, I'm gonna lose my mind, yeah. Rose and her fiance booked this house

and gave people the dates and we're basically like, see you there, like camp. So people this whole first day have been running into things that are forgotten, right? Like there's like, there's no wine opener. There are no candles. There isn't a good point. Of course not.

There isn't. Of course there isn't. Is this how Rose is in life? Is she out here just like not planning things and hoping they work out? It seems that way, yeah. Because I feel like in that case, people, yeah, are like, you know what?

Like Rose is like, is kind of like this and also is on one about wanting to be a chill bride. So we should probably like get some of this sorted out, you know? Yeah. Something I have learned is someone who is extremely not chill is that people who are not chill find each other. And they're a cool family of people operating this way that I just have no knowledge of. You're so right. I would much rather be in a room with like 15 alphas all trying out alpha each other with our spreadsheets

than be anywhere near this family. I'm so sorry. This would lose, no. You're on both of you already are like two or 10. We're so triggered. We're both so triggered. We're both like, oh, I can't even handle this. This is like my nightmare.

Luckily this family did know well enough to be like, there's no way we're gonna be able to make dinner for 15 people in this kitchen. So they have made reservations for dinner. Okay, well that's something. So everyone's like, okay, we need to get ready. Like we have to leave in like 30 minutes to get to dinner on time.

So everyone's like doing their stuff, getting ready when they hear the car in the drive. New car in the drive. Deb is here. Hurricane Deb, am I right? Hurricane Deb. And Kurt is like holding the dog back by the collar, right? Deb comes up, she hugs Rose, she hugs Heather, and then she's like, oh my God, the dog. I've been dying to meet him.

He's so beautiful. And she's like on the ground petting the dog. I've been dying to meet him. He is so beautiful. And she's like, on the ground petting the dog. I knew the dad was blaming her for this. I knew the dad was like, was like, airing his opinion about the dog, but blaming him. You think this is the dad's problem? That's what it seemed like.

I think this is a lie. I'm a dead prop. The dead's like, I think dead is like a fake upfront. And then behind everyone's back, she's like, tell them to get the fucking dog out of here. I don't know what I'm fucking. Oh my god, the dog out here and I'm not fucking oh my god that's interesting I think the dad doesn't want to be around the dog but wants to believe. Colin by his name Sally his name is Paul. Sorry Paul. Rose is like whatever honestly. Deb's happy the gets to stay, that's what I wanted.

Sure, she goes back to fixing her makeup, right? She hears Heather in the hall, right? You know when you don't have something and you're in a big house, you stick your head out and her like, does anybody have whatever? Yes. Heather like sticks her head out and she's like, does anybody have a hair straightener? I forgot my hair straightener. I don't know, I, Caroline knows what that means, but I don't know what it means. You got it. You can't. Okay. Sorry. Right. I am. I am. Okay.

For those who can't see me and that is 100% of people listening right now, waving my hand. I'm just like I'm done. I'm done. I if I could walk away right now. Yeah. No Heather. No one has a hair straightener. Why? But why is it bad that Heather doesn't have a hair straightener? Because bring your own hair straightener. She needs one and she needs one and she, it's why, oh, okay. Okay, okay.

So, what team are you on? Okay, okay, okay, got it, got it, got it, got it. Okay, no, I just didn't understand if there's something special that it'd be a hair straightener. No, it's just more like Heather also seemed to, she illustrated earlier that she understands sort of like who's, she's dealing with here. So you think of, you think that you,

for all intents and purposes, the most conflicted together, confident person, you think you now that you've forgotten the hair straight or someone's like, oh yeah, no, I definitely brought the hair straightener. Rose was three hours later on wedding weekend. No one yeah, no, I definitely brought the hair straightener. Rose was three hours late. You're on wedding weekend. No one has a hair.

No one has a hair straightener. I'm throwing my hair. I cannot even deal with this. I cannot even deal with this. Caroline has thrown down her microphone and has walked out of the frame. She's leaving me. I'm walking to traffic. I can't deal with this.

It's just me and Sally now. But Caroline. Bye. See ya. I'm just going to spend fun. Rose is like, I didn't bring a hair straightener. I only have a curly hair. Deb is like, oh, I have a straightener.

She's like, Heather, I have one in my bag. I can leave it in our Jack and Jill bathroom. And Rose is like, you're sharing a bathroom with Deb and Deb. And Heather's like rolling her eyes. She's like, unfortunately, yes, that is the way the rooms shook out. So this problem is at least soft Heather does roses nails. They're ready to go on time Heather's hair is straight. She looks so nice. Everyone is happy Roses like I never would have gotten this moment of like Heather doing my nails and these people bonding if I had microromanaged everything. Like being a chill bride is really paying off. No, fuck you.

No, that's not what being a chill bride, okay. Yep, okay, continue. I want better furrows. I want better furrows. People just don't understand what chill bride means and that's not it. They go to dinner at like a farm to table restaurant where all of the plates are like really small vegetables, right? Like tiny plate of beautifully made vegetables.

Great delicious. Everyone eats it. They're all like this is incredible. We love it. But this is a very light dinner and wine has been flowing very quickly. So everyone is tipsy by the time dinner is over, right? Okay? This is fine. The dinner goes great, but the plan, Rose's plan was to go to dinner and then to go to a local bar where Rose wanted to sit and have a nightcap and everyone just gabb. Now Kelsey, was that the plan or was that something Rose just thought of one day and said to nobody? That one.

Alright, carry on. They get there. The bar is packed, like sardines packed because this night of the week is karaoke night. So there is like barely room to stand, much less to like sit and have your little nightcap. Your parents are there. It's your wedding weekend. Your little bit to see the bar was packed.

Do you want to stay? Absolutely not. I don't want to stay at a packed bar under any circumstances. So what are you going to do instead? Go back to the house, but get on our jammies, have some tea, play trivial pursuit. What are you talking about? Like hang out in the house. Rose is like, let's just go in and see. They go in, they make it like two songs and everyone is like this sucks. We hate it. It's not fun here. And they're like, okay, we'll go back to the house. They get back and roses like clearly grumpy, right? She's like not having a good time.

She's not having fun. And the dad is like in an effort to help. He's like, I will make cocktails for everyone. I'm going like dad cocktail mode and famously dad cocktails are three to four times stronger than regular cocktails. So he's making cocktails for everyone and handing them out and everyone is getting like drunker and drunker and drunker. What do you think that these people should do? They're all just sitting around having drinks. They're a little bored. They have no activity. Man, getting wasted face with family on an empty stomach when your other plans got canceled just sounds like recipe for disaster, especially because everything started out with conflict. I feel like they're right.

I need to interrupt you. They're planting get canceled. They didn't have plans. They're so up to it. Sorry. It's so up to a bar. And we're like, oh my God, I can't believe it. People in a bar on a Friday night in a town where there's probably one bar.

I can't believe it. How could this have happened? You know what I'm doing? I'm getting the dog and I'm going back to the city. You're not staying anymore, you're done here. I mean, no, my real answer, the thing that I'm thinking in my head is I'm getting the dog and I'm going back to the city.

And what I might be doing is going for a good long cry in the Jack and Jill bathroom. What I'm actually doing is like, am I also drunk? I ask as a sober person in this situation, am I a person who can drink and is drunk? Sure. Yeah. This, I just, I don't know, this can't.

Why do I think it's how that can if she's. I don't know, I just can't think of anything that's like less me. Then like, oh, she's drunk and there have been no plans. Like you're just like, you could not, this is the least Caroline's scenario. I can think of, I think I would try to organize some sort of game. Yes.

Similarly to Sally's like initial thesis, which was like trivial pursuit, sit at home. Yeah. Kurt is like, what if we played Pictionary? Sure. So he gets out like the, you know, paper, whatever that they need to play Pictionary. It's family, it's a wedding,

which means that the Pictionary is entirely inside jokes, right? Like someone is drawing like three lines, and another person is like, that's the lake we went to as kids. That's funny. Yeah, I think now I'm into it. Someone draws one circle, and someone's like, that's a glass eye, obviously.

Someone draws a bear, and Kurt is like, that's Kevin James of this 2001 comedy, special Swet the Small Stuffs, clearly. So sure, sure. Yeah. And everyone knows it. Yeah. Everyone knows knows it. Yeah. Everyone knows it except for Deb.

Deb is like already kind of an outsider as because she's referred to as Paul's wife. She's like, I don't get any of these jokes. I have no idea what's going on. Even more frustratingly, like, Rosa's fiance's parents, they're somehow getting these jokes, right? Like, they're involved.

Everyone's getting it except for me. Oh, she's like this sucks. Finally, it's Heather's turn to drop. Heather gets up there and she draws like a stereotype of a woman, right? Like a triangle body with legs and arms. And she draws a little head and then she draws like very, like a poofy hair outline with like little frizzy pieces. And Paul is like,

Deb and Heather's like, yes, good. Paul, oh my God, no, Heather, oh God. When everyone starts gossiping about you, it doesn't feel good. So even though I think like anyone outside of this story can be like, who cares, what a Deb? She never gets anything. Like if I were Deb, especially after all this,

I would already be so sad. Heather really should have known better. And also, Deb lent her the strainer so that go for her hair, her frizzy hair, it's rude. It's rude. Your rose in this scenario, Deb is clearly mad.

Heather, your made of honor slash sister in law has made this rather rude joke. Do you want to do something about this? Do you want to leave it like? What's your move here? As Rose, right? As Rose.

I think maybe. Say like all right, let's keep things fun and cute and move on to the next like round of the game. I think probably just to like keep it moving without making a thing of it. I would be like Heather, you're notoriously the world's shittiest artist. And that was what it looked like. I would go full team Deb. Like I can't stand when people feel already left out and like then to get like just fucking needled in a stick figure. That is the thing that would have driven me to tears at like a fourth grade sleepover party. So like I would be like, come on Deb, come on girl.

Like we're gonna like fuck Heather. Man. I would have totally just tried to like rally Deb in. Bring Deb in. Caller in, caller in in the game is like moving fast enough that roses like nobody is sitting with this right like things are moving on after the game roses like on their on her way to bed She's like Heather like Dude, that's like a little harsh. It's a little far like I know that we don't like Deb but like she's feeling left out like you don't be mean to her. And how there's like yeah you're right I'm so sorry. Okay they go to bed. It is now the wedding day. Good morning welcome. How do you feel? How do you

think this is gonna go? Well are they hungover? Like that's the other thing like. Certainly yes. Not only are they hung over, somebody got coffee yesterday, but they got whole bean coffee, and there's no coffee grinder. Dumb, fucking dumb, fucking dumb. I'm dumb, fucking family. That's brutal. I mean, I'm just a dumb.

But here's the thing though, if you're the kind of person who can roll with this like chill situation. Oh, if you're a chill, if you're the kind of person who can roll with this like chill situation. Oh, you're a chill, if you're a chill bride. If you're a chill bride, then maybe you're the kind of person who like are hungover and there's no coffee and you're like, whatever, like I'll be fine. I am personally not that way,

which is why I would never find myself in that situation. But perhaps people who are more chill brides than I have been known to be would be okay with that. I mean, are they upset that they're hungover and there's no coffee? Rose is like, they're chill riding it. They're like, dad will go to the Walmart that's 45 minutes away and return with coffee grounds. Oh, they're not chill riding it. You're making Paul go do it. So Paul goes to get the coffee. Meanwhile, people are beginning to get ready

because this is a wedding, right? And it's like the only thing that Rose has done a good job of is hiring a photographer well enough in advance and giving them instructions. Rose is the only thing I care about is photos, right? That is the one thing she's not chill about. Fine. What do we say not chill or just one email she sent and I just take a

I just take a fence as as like being a planner means you're not chill. I don't know. Well, this is I feel I feel honestly this is personal front to me. I'm sorry. I was hurting you in this way. You don't know her. You don't know her. She's mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. I am her mine body and soul. Okay, so she's like, oh, this is the only thing she hasn't been chill about. She hired someone for fucking wedding. Okay, great job, Rose. So she's like, we have to get ready. I'll have these photos forever. Like, the photos are really important to me.

Okay. The whole, like, a whole bridal party, which is like half the house is in Rose's room like getting ready. They're doing hair and makeup, they're gabbing, they like keep running into things they don't have. Right, like there's no waterproof mascara, there's no setting spray. Deb is like, just hairspray your face, and everyone's like, no.

Just hairspray. Just set your makeup. Deb is a woman of the 80s. You don't have to tell me anything else about her. Deb, you are a wise woman. Deb is a woman of the 80s. Just spray aquanet on your face. That's great.

There's like plenty of time before the wedding, but you're missing all these things. And there's like, not a Sephora, you're like, out there. What do you do? I guess go back in time and plan my wedding is not an option here. No. Okay, so you're missing all these things, but you're not telling us Kelsey, like, what's the vibe of, oh man, there's no waterproof mascara. So like, what's the vibe when that sentence is uttered? Yeah. So the vibe at first is like, it's fine. We'll make it work, right?

Okay. Everyone's kind of like, this is chill. it's fine. But as the list is like growing, growing, growing, people are like, actually, this is a lot of things. Like you can't make it work if you have no ingredients. Okay. Well, what I would do is I would delegate one person, Heather probably, because she's the maid of honor, or like someone equally as close, with a list 45 minutes out to the Walmart to get the things that we need. And so yeah, I guess if I determined all of these things to be priority, I would delegate someone

to go out and get these things with my goddamn veil between my legs. What do you think, Sally? Oh, it was good. I guess I feel like if I was chillb riding it, and that this was gonna be my whole thing, I would hopefully, when all this shit happens, be able to maintain that spirit of being like, well, you know, I thought I was just gonna be a chillb ride, so I'm just gonna be a chillb ride now. And I would probably move off of the dance floor onto the balcony. I'm speaking metaphorically now. Get up on the balcony.

Look at the situation and say to the people in my wedding, look, I know we're all missing a bunch of stuff. I really wanted this to just be like low key. If everyone can just like do the best they can with what they're what they have and what they don't have, that would be awesome. Let's just focus on like having a fun time together. So this is the problem. Is that Rose is like, whatever, we'll make it work. Like if the cake that we made is only made of sugar, that's a pile of sugar that we can eat and it'll be fine, right? Like she's like, she's like whatever. But the other people are like, this is extremely not fine. And so Heather is like, no, we need all of these things.

Like not only do we need blotting papers and waterproof mascara and all this stuff, but like we don't have ribbon for the bouquets, right? We don't have enough booze, right? Like we don't have the sparklers for the send-off, right? We're missing all of these things. So Heather is like, Paul, here is your list. We have attached photos with the list

so that you know exactly what to get. Please go off into the land of stores and return with these things. Here's where I disagree with this. If you are the bride and it's your wedding and all the way up until this day, you're like, I don't care. And when all these things go wrong, your attitude is still, I don't care.

Then we're all good. Like, it's not anyone else's job to decide you have to care about this stuff. She's telling you she doesn't care. If you wanted blotting papers, you need to take care of yourself, Heather. I like how quickly you've pivoted. Oh, I mean, no, the thing that would have really gotten my goat is the chill brides being like, I'm chill, I'm chill, I'm chill, I'm chill, I'm chill. And then having these like expectations that are set and could only be possible with

planning. But if you're a bride who's like, I don't actually care about ribbons for the bouquets, I'll just hold the flowers. I don't really care about the cake. I don't care if the DJ plays the wrong song. It's your wedding. I'm just here. I'll do whatever you want me to do.

Yes. That's how I feel. But as long as you can stay consistent, I think more power to you. But Heather then should have been like, not surprised that any of this wasn't done. Yes. Heather sends dad to the store.

And Deb is like, Deb is like, I don't want him to go to the store He's gonna be gone for four hours And then I'm gonna be like stuck here by myself with all of you and Heather's like well If he doesn't want to go he doesn't have to go and dad's like I love a job off. I go to the store, right like Dad's going away goodbye Paul classic dad. Yeah Everything's fine. Whatever they're getting ready. The photographer shows up.

They're making do without the stuff they don't have. In the afternoon, Deb comes into the room where they all are looking frazzled. And she's like, I need to talk to Heather. Rose is like, OK, talk to Heather. She talks to Heather. She goes away. She comes back like two hours later.

And she's like, the boys don't know where to place their booteneers. Wait, hold on. Sorry. Deb and Heather had a conversation. Yes. For two hours. No, briefly. And then she left. And then Deb left. Okay. And then Deb returned and was like, we have another problem. I say, which is the boutonniers. Okay. Do you know how to put on boutonniers? Yes. Either of you. No, but I feel like I would just Google it. Yeah. It doesn't seem that hard.

What do you know about a Caroline? Tell me. You just do pin the flower onto your lapel. So the problem is there are two places to pin it, right? You can pin it lower on the lapel or you can pin it higher. Deb is like the men of this house don't know which place to put their little boutonniere. This is weaponized incompetence. Now, now I see what you mean about superfluous drama.

There are just too many. There are too many people in this story who are starting, who are like agents of chaos. Yeah. Like Deb, respectfully figure it the fuck out. So Heather and Deb cannot agree on this. Deb goes to get two of the groomsmen and she brings them back with the lapels,

like with the boutineers pinned in different places on the lapels and she puts them in front of Rose and she's like, choose. Rose is like, let them do whatever they want. These are basically the same, I do not care. Rose is like, great. She'll be fine. She'll be fine for the win. I do not care. Rose is like, great. She'll, problem solved. She'll, bride for the win.

I did it. But then like an hour later, Deb comes back and is like whispering with Heather about something and Rose is like, what is this about? And Heather's like, oh, she just like, doesn't like how the boot nears look, like don't worry about it. Who doesn't like them, Deb?

Deb. Okay. And Rose is like, okay, I won't worry about it. It doesn't seem like a problem to me, not my problem. That an hour before the wedding, Dan returns with all the things they need. Dan is a hero, everyone claps for him. He comes to find her and hugs her, right? Heather immediately goes up to him, unpins his boot near and pins it a different way.

And Rose is like, please stop, leave the boot near alone, no one cares. We get to the wedding, the wedding goes fine. Everything goes fine. The only problem is that in the end, Heather's switching dad's boot near meant that his looked different than everyone else's. After the ceremony, Rose is like,

I want my big family photo. Like, I feel so happy. This is so great. They all get together. They like take their photo. She's like, we did it. There's dancing and dinner. The sparklers work.

They go away for the night at a hotel. Rose is like, this is so sweet. Everything turned out exactly how I wanted. Rose is like, everyone says that weddings are chaos, but there was only this like tiny minor booting near drama. Yeah, everyone had a great time. I pulled it off. I was a chill bride.

How are we feeling? You were a chill bride. I guess. I'm feeling not great, Kelsey. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not feeling good. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Yes, you were a chill bride. I just think behind every chill bride is someone with a chill bride. I just think behind every chill bride is someone with a fucking spreadsheet and and we can't all be a chill bride and we can't all be a spreadsheet person. But weddings are a lot of things. All right. Pull up to my Ted talk. Okay. Wed weddings are a lot. All right, sure. Weddings are a lot of things. What they are not are sort of events that you can play by ear. Because I'm what I'm already gaining by the clues and information you've told me is that it is a wedding weekend because people had to travel up to a different house that no one lives in. They rented this house and that there are guests outside

of the people in this house at the wedding. Yes. When you do that, you owe people who are giving you a weekend of their life to celebrate you, you owe them some details. You had enough time in where with all to rent the house, you had enough time in wherewithal to rent the house. You had enough time in wherewithal to pick the weekend that you were going to get married. Everyone in your family knew the date, so information did have to be shared on that plane.

If you want to just invite everyone over to your backyard and be like, don't cry, we're getting married. Like someone's here and then like, okay, like we got like, got like you know someone on the grill and we're doing burgers and like great amazing you can't have like two different events at what it's as one as one and make and and feel like this is in I'm sure I'm glad that Rose because it's like her wedding she walked away from this feeling like I was a chill bride like yes it's important to have enjoyed your own wedding, I guess, but like, not every, I don't know. For me, I, if I'm like, I would want my guests to have a good experience,

it would be really difficult for me to like, let go and let go of LG squared, because I just, I don't know. Like I, I'm already like asking so much of people, like maybe you have to take off work on Friday to get up there for the dinner. Like, you know, like, I want to, you want to show up and be like, oh, I was not, I was thought of. We're here and like, we're doing the thing that you wanted us to do. Yeah. Whether that's eating burgers, barefoot in the backyard, or getting full black, you know, black tie and dancing till just whatever.

I'll do what you want me to do, but please communicate it to me ahead of time. I guess that's my thought. So I don't know. Sally, how do you, how do you feel at this moment in time? I feel, I think pretty similar to Carolyn. I think that like, you know, when you want to be a chill bride, even if, you know, other people know that that's like what your deal is going to be a chill bride, even if other people know that that's like, what your deal is gonna be,

you are still asking them to partake in a kind of event that is usually associated with a lot of advanced planning and a lot of things being like figured out. And so, even if the people you're inviting are like buying in, they still are gonna like be like, but wait, where's the ribbon for the bouquet and where the sparklers and this, you know, so like, I think that this is like,

one of those moments where you think you're doing a chill thing and it's actually, you're just sort of like, inflicting your weird psychodrama on everyone around you and then everyone else has to cope with it. I think we also have to remember that chill bride is, and I say this as somebody who literally like co-wrote a book about the idiosyncrasies of Bachelor at Party Planning.

Just, it's not about being chill or not chill. Like, you didn't plan your wedding, and now I'm here at your wedding. Like that's what I can't reckon with. But like, you know, so Rose leaves the wedding like feeling happy and like great, right? She's like, this one's great. Everyone had a good time, whatever.

This one's great, okay. So, you know how it takes like a few weeks to get the photos back, like you don't get them immediately. It takes like eight weeks for Rose to get the photos back and she's like so excited. She's like this is great. She has Kurt and Heather come over to like look at them with her. They're like owing and eyeing. They look great. She's like this is so I'm so happy. Heather like has to go somewhere so she leaves. And Rose is like okay Kurt like since we're both here, I think we should pick one of these photos of like all of us

together to give to dad and Deb like for the holidays. Cute little gift, right? And Kurt is like Rose. We cannot use any of these photos. And Rose is like, what? Like why? And Kurt like kind of size and puts his head in his hands and he's like, has anyone told you? And Rose is like, told me what? And Kurt

is like, do you like, do you know about the drama? And Rose is like, yeah, the boot near drama. And Kurt is like, no, no, no, no, the straightener drama. Oh my God. That was like 10 dramas ago. And Rose is like, what? I don't know anything about this. I can't even read. It's like, okay, we have to go back to the beginning.

I can't read anything again. What do you remember about the beginning of the wedding? They didn't have coffee. No coffee. They didn't have coffee. And Heather pokes her head out and says, did anyone bring a straightener and Deb said, you can use mine. I thought those the night before. Before but it's relevant. Okay. Okay. She left it in the Jack and Jill bathroom. Dad's going to the store, right? There's no mascara. Right. Then dad leaves, right? Yeah.

Deb came to talk to Heather. What did she come to talk to her about? The boutineers. And the placement. Oh. The boutineer in the placement is what Rose thought they were talking about. Oh. Did it was the straightener in Paul's car? No. The straightener was missing. Something that Rose didn't notice is that when Deb showed up, she was like, her hair was wet because she had just taken a shower and she was like wearing a robe and she was like, two steps from a nervous breakdown.

And during Pictionary Heather drew frizzy hair. Yes. And so she asked Heather, like, where's my straightener? And Heather's like, I don't know, I don't have it. And Deb is like, your hair is literally straight. Like I can see it. And Heather's like, yeah, but that's from yesterday. Like I'm doing an updo today. I didn't wash and Deb is like but you had it last and like your hair is so smooth like

where did you put it and Heather's like well I put it in the Jack and Jill bathroom I don't know what to tell you Rose doesn't know any of that Rose is living in bliss why do you think this is a big deal is that Deb didn't get to do her hair for the wedding? Yes. And because of the dictionary thing, right? Deb is like self-conscious. Right, Heather like called her out of her frizzy hair, then lost her straightener. And then Deb had to go to the wedding frizzy hair.

Yes. Now this is becoming like an aggravated assault case. Yes. Now there are arrests that have to be made, okay? Your Deb, your straightener is missing. There are still many hours until the wedding. Heather says she doesn't know where it is. I'm texting my husband, Paul, and I'm being like,

I can't find my straightener. Can you pick one up for me at Walmart? Wow, that's really resourceful and a great idea. Or if I were Heather, I'd be texting my father-in-law and saying, I lost step straightener, I have no idea where it is, can you take another strainer? All roads, hide to wall mart. You don't.

Unless in 24 hours. There's no way. So now this makes me think that Heather is up to no good. Deb is like, no one has left this house except for Paul. Oh my, it's a closed door. I know it's mystery. It's a closed door mystery. She's like, I know it's in this house, right?

So like, where is it? When timeline wise, boot near wise, when it was dev aware of the straightener issue, pre or post, boot near placement, pre-boot near placement. Okay, so it's like, before the conversation, Deb knows that the straightener is missing. Okay. So Deb is like, you know who doesn't have anything

to do in a wedding? These groups men. They're just like drinking booze. Yeah. Scratch in their balls. They can have a job. So she goes to the groups and she's like, I need your help. I am missing something.

We are on a quest to find my hair straightener. And the groups men are like, okay, got it. They're like looking around the house. They're bringing things back. They're bringing back like an iron for clothing. And they're like, will this work? Yeah, okay. And she's like, no.

They're bringing back like one of those terrible hairdryers that they have at hotels. And they're like, could this help? This is like when you do Instacart and you're like, I need a lemon. And they're like, they're out of lemons and then they send a picture of a cantaloupe. And you're like, no.

No. I don't just, just give me nothing then. Okay. So they don't even know what they are looking for. No, they're bringing like a portable steamer. And they're like, could this help? For this does unwrinkling, right? Could this help with your hair?

And Deb is like, that's literally the opposite of what that would do. No. She's like, this is not working. This is like a collection of buffoons. I feel like I'm trying to explain a card trick to a dog. Like she's like, it looks like tongs, right? She's like tongs.

We're looking for tongs. The groomsmen come back with literal like kitchen tongs. They're like these. She's like, oh my God. Like very Amelia Vagilia. She's like, I hate all of you. Go away. They're all now disheveled

because they have been looking around. And so she repens their boutonniers and this is where the problem starts because she couldn't remember where they were supposed to be pinned. What do you do if you're a deb? Hang in there. Dev's the one that repens the boutonniers.

Yes, the first time they got them into this trouble of like where do they go. Oh, okay. Okay, I guess if I'm Deb, I'm just gonna say like I'm gonna make my best guests with the booteniers and like if they need to be moved, they need to be moved. Booteniers are famously easily movable. Yeah, the whole thing is that you can take them off and put them back on again. So I feel like it shouldn't be the end of the world if it has to be moved. But what about your straightener, which you still can't find?

Yeah, I mean, that's a toughy. So I don't really know how it works with like, you have long hair and you want it to be straight. It's not, so what is it if it's not straight, like curly? Frizzi. I'm like one of the groomsmen. Not even curly. You know, if you have really nice curly hair,

it's more about the frizz. It's more about like, kind of what my hair looks like right now, like up at the top. Like I could never, like basically I have like half dried out of shower hair. Like things in different directions, people things are sticking up.

There's like little creases from like a cliff or whatever. So I couldn't go to like a formal event, it would look like I didn't care, it would look like I didn't try. Okay, so it's like you either straighten your hair where you like don't go to the event, is that the deal? No, there's other options, even if they're not like on the top of the,

like I could have, I could like my hair back into a ponytail, I could put it in like a bun, there's other ways to do it. That's what I would do. I think I would just be like, let me just cut my losses. I don't have the time to like look for this straightener. Let me just like get it looking as good as it can

with what I have on hand. If I didn't do my first choice, which was text-pull, and then get me a straightener. You are both very resourceful, much more resourceful than Deb. Deb is like, she has that feeling, you know, that you have sometimes when you're like a kid and you're like, I know that the thing is here,

but I can't see it. She totally fives in on it. And if I ask my mom to come look, she'll see it immediately. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And so she's like, she's like, I don't wanna make Heather come out of the bridal room and in here to help me find it

because she'll see it immediately, but I need someone else to help me find it. So she goes to Kurt and she's like, I don't want to make Heather come out of the bridal room and in here to help me find it because she'll see it immediately. But I need someone else to help me find it. So she goes to Kurt and she's like, Kurt, please. I think that the straightener is in this bathroom or in your room with Heather. Like, can you help me find it? So Kurt and Deb are tearing apart the bathroom.

They're pulling things out. They're putting things away. They cannot find it. Kurt is finally like, I cannot do this anymore. I think to do. Here's a blow dryer and like not even around brush, but just like a brush. Like good luck.

Goodbye. Mm-hmm. Deb is now on her own. She's like very upset. The light in the bathroom is terrible. Her hair is frizzy. She has to dry it because the wedding is like coming miserable. Dad comes in, he's sweaty, grumpy, he changes fast, he runs out to say hi to Rose,

he comes back in and sees Deb is really upset and he's like, what's wrong? And Deb is like still blotering her hair. He's like, I can't hear you and she's like, your son and his wife stole my straightener. I told you they all hated me and here is your proof. They want me to look bad at this wedding. They want me to look like that drawing that Heather did of me. He's like, do you want me to go get them? Do you want to talk to them? Do you want to, what do you want to do?

And Deb is like, I can't talk to them. I am behind schedule. My hair looks insane. Dad is like trying to save this situation. He's like, do you want to go to the bridal room and talk to them? Do you want to do this? And Deb is like, I can't go to the bridal room. They hate me. And then she looks at him and she's like, do you want to go to the bridal room and talk to them? Do you want to do this? And Deb is like, I can't go to the bridal room. They hate me.

And then she looks at him and she's like, did Heather fix your boot near? And the dad's like, uh, yeah? Heather had switched everyone's boot nearer to be at the same height, right? Like she switched dads when he came to hug Rose. She switched all the groomsmen. So everyone had the same height, which was the height that Heather had chosen. But then when dad went to comfort Deb, Deb was like, oh, this isn't the right place

because it wasn't the same spot that she had pinned. The groomsmen booted in ears and so she moved it and that's why his was wrong. Because Deb repented. She sabotaged it. On her. She thought she fixed it. No, that's up to you.

Deb sabotaged. Deb sabotaged it. And honestly, go off Deb. This is this whole thing is like all these people need therapy. They need a big glass of water. They'll need a they'll need a nap. You know, wedding planner. Deb puts her hair up in like a slick little bun, but it's like still frizzy, right? Like it's so so frizzy anyway. She like can't do it. She goes and sits down at the wedding. She's like looking at everyone, come down the aisle.

And she like can't help it. She's looking at Heather, walk down the aisle, and she's like looking at her little half up, half down hair, and she's like, her hair is so straight. Like, it's so smooth. She's like, there's no way that she didn't straighten it. Oh my God. Dastardly.

She's like, stand off, it's the whole wedding. She's so mad. Rose's new in-laws are like, I love that you wear your hair naturally. It's so brave, it's so bold. And Dev is like, I can't do this. Kurt comes to get her for the family photo after the wedding and she's like, I don't want to do it.

I don't want to take the photo. No thank you. And Kurt's like, you have to come take the photo, come take the photo. So she goes and a half, takes the photo. Kurt and Rose are now looking at this photo in the present time. The only person smiling in the whole photo is Rose.

She has the biggest smile on her face. Everyone else around her is miserable. Kurtz, like, look at Heather, look at Deb's hair, look at my face, and they all just, like, look so sad. He's like, you can't give this present to Dad for Christmas. Deb will take it as evidence that you hate her. Yeah, she will. And Rose is like, okay, that's fair. I won't that you hate her. Yeah, she won't. And Rose is like, okay, that's fair.

I won't give it to her for Christmas, but did Heather take the straightener? Did Heather hide it? And Kurt's like, no. And Rose is like, are you sure? And Kurt's like, yeah, I mean, I'm sure. She's my like wife. And Rose is like, well, did they find it?

Like, where is it? You know how Airbnb's have all kinds of like weird checkout rules that are annoying? Uh-huh. The next morning everyone was like cleaning up, packing up the house. Rose was obviously not doing this because she was somewhere else at her like a little chill.

B and B being chill. There were clean towels stacked on top of the dryer and Kurt took them to put them back in the little like closet. And the closet is like near the bathroom, but not in the bathroom. And at the top of the, he puts them up there and his hand like brushed something. And he pulls from the very top shelf, the straightener.

So someone had used it and put it on the very top shelf. Someone had put it on the very top shelf. Like see me like kind of in a farious, I don't want someone to find this type of way. Well, that's what I'm posing to you. I think that there are four people that could have done this. No one has mentioned that maybe the dog did it, but okay. Or the dog.

Four people and the dog who could have done this. Who would you like to start with? What are your feelings? Who are you leaning toward? I don't think Heather hit it. I also think Heather did not straighten her hair. I think Deb was in a funk, Deb wanted evidence that Heather took the hair straightener, looked at her hair and was like,

it looks really straight to me. Like I don't think there was any evidence. I wait, Sally, do you agree that it's not Heather? I think it is Heather. Woo! I mean, what do you more wrong? Because you're more wrong. Defend yourself.

Okay, because it sounded to me like when Deb was saying to Heather, like I can't find my straightener, Heather didn't behave the way someone who hadn't hidden a straightener would behave. Like I think like you'd be like, oh my God, shoot, did I misplace it? Like, let me help you. Look, I was the last one to use it.

Let me help this person find it. But it sounds like Heather was, I guess we don't know exactly. But it seems like Heather didn't stop what she was doing at any point to like look for it or anything. I'm leaning Heather for this one. I like where your head's at Sally I do and I want to say I appreciate it and I appreciate your input. I actually kind of agree she didn't act like a

purr because the criminal always returns to the scene. So you'd think that like if she if she hit it Heather would be the one throwing off the scent like looking under the bed knowing all the while. Oh yeah I checked the laundry room like oh, oh, yeah, I checked. It's not there. But the other thing that has me kind of like got is that like, whether it's not even a part of this family, this is, these are Heather's in laws. And then Deb is even another step removed from that. This is her father in laws wife. Um, yes. So like what, like there's there, I, you know, I would need to know more about Heather's relationship with Kurt's family

Because then this seems like there was if it was Heather I feel like then this was the plan from Heather all along like Heather wanted to sabotage The wedding all along, but she's close enough with Rose to be the who need a thank you. You know what I think it is I think when you hear pubs, it's horses not zebra's kind of thing. I bet at some point one of the groomsmen brought an option from the laundry room and was told you fucking idiot that is not clearly not a hair straightener. Yeah. Felt bad about himself. Went back to the laundry room and just kind of like threw everything else up on the top of the thing. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's interesting. Could it

have been Deb? Is there a world in which Deb fakes this whole thing? Oh, no, that's interesting. No one that Vane would fake it to the point of looking bad at looking not up to your own personal standards at the wedding of your daughter of your daughter who also doesn't give a shit what you look like. Doug would have to be like I think like a sociopath to do this herself. Pardon my colloquial casual use of that phrase because I don't think that's like diagnostically correct. But like to sabotage your own look, I'm too vain for that.

I wouldn't want those photos out. So it was Kurt. You think it's Kurt? Think about it. Think about it. Okay. Kurt married to Heather, loyalty there. That's a, that's spousal.

What's it called? Loyalty. Privileged. Spousal privilege. Spousal privilege. Privileged. It's also privileged. Okay. Kurt's definitely not loyal to Deb. Kurt has as much invested as like the dog being shunned by Deb as Heather does. Mm-hmm. And it leaves Heather clean. You know, like he did the job for her. The strainer became available to Heather when Heather needed it.

The strainer was not available to Deb when dad needed it and wasn't it Kurt who found the strainer Is that your Sally what's your final ruling and then I'll give you the update you think it's Heather you know Oh, yeah, of course. I know oh my god. I thought I was gonna live with this forever so a few months after the wedding dad and Deb broke up Oh my god, I thought I was just gonna live with this forever. So a few months after the wedding, dad and Deb broke up. Twist. And everyone was kind of relieved, except for Rose, who was now literally

all of these photos are useless. Like thank you so much, so helpful. Nobody can use them because Deb's in all of them. And do you remember at the beginning of the story, when dad said that Deb didn't want the dog there? Yeah, do you remember that? So Deb never said that. What did I say? I said that. You said that during their breakup. Dad admitted that she was like very over-dramatic about the straightener. And Heather was like, well it makes sense that she was over-dramatic about the straightener

because I bought that same straightener that she had after the wedding and it rules. Like I would be mad if I lost it too. And Rose was like, Heather, there's like something weird about the way that you're saying this. Did you steal dub straightener? And Heather was like, I mean, I wouldn't say I stole it. Did I hide it? Yeah. Oh.

Okay, I know that this isn't what this entire thing is about. But I would like to go on record saying, I said Deb never said that about the dog. Yeah, Sally has been on us in the beginning. So listen, I know this isn't a competition that I did win. But wait, so how can you be a chill bride when you're made of honor is like this nefarious? This is awful. I don't want to believe people are this bad. This is like actually kind of difficult to for me to think about.

Why would you do that to somebody? It's just not nice. So this is all we knew for a while. But right before we were supposed to record, we got an email from the person who sent us this in. And they said that they had heard from their friend of a friend that this came from, that dad and Deb went on a pre-book to vacation

to Mexico together after their breakup, and they have gotten back together. Go ahead. Wait a second. See you at Christmas, Deb. Have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have a have who knows all of this. That's, that's so not chill. You call in your local gossip podcast. No, that's the only option. You take this to your grave because it's like the things you have to live with.

You have to live with a secret forever. I feel like, if I'm Rose, I feel like I'm, well, she can't enter relationship with Heather, I guess, because Heather's married to her brother. All of these people are just, they sound really just chaotic and I don't understand how they maintain their relationships like even outside of this story.

Yeah, me too. I think it's a very difficult position to be in, to have Deb returning knowing this information because it's like you are now in the middle of every problem. Yeah. Does Deb know like that Heather is the one that hid the straightener? No. Does Paul? No. Only Rose knows.

But then how did the dog thing happen? I mean, maybe the dog thing, how did the dog thing happen? Because who was the one that said Deb doesn't want the dog here? Dad. Told her. Where did he get that information from? Because Deb never said that. Yes. So that's the thing is he made it up because he was planning to break up with Deb the whole time

Jesus Christ. Oh my god. All of these people are monsters They're all bad people You know when you're in elementary school and in gym class and they make you spread out and you have to do air plane arms And you can't hit anybody. Yeah, just swing these are all people who they're in your plane. These people all think that their actions don't affect other people. Who's we are at the very end? Who's side are you on? Deb. Deb. You're on the side. I'm on Deb side too. Yeah, for sure. Deb is like the only not bad actor in this whole story. Yeah, team Deb, but also Deb, know your worth?

Leave Paul. He threw under the bus, but he threw under the bus about a dog. What else can this man do? Dump him, dumb him, digging. Babe, dumb him. Babe, dumb him. Sally and Caroline, thank you so much for coming

on the show. It was so light to have you. I did. No, that was incredible. That story extra light to have you. How many of you did it? No, that was incredible. That was incredible. That's really fun. That was really fun.

Thank you for that. This was Knives Out. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at NormalGossip at Defector.com or you can leave us a voice mail at 2679 gossip. If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and

TikTok at NormalGossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at McKinney Kelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujol-Mofflin. Diana Moskowitz is our story editor. Justin Ellis is defectors projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are defectors business guys. Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief. J. Tolvira is our production assistant. Dan McQuade runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Diana Moskovitz for your help on this episode. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company.

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