North Korea News Podcast by NK News - Additional North Korean troop deployment, Kim mourns in public and beachgoers

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Seoul last week said it cannot confirm a CNN report that North Korea plans to send 30,000 additional soldiers to support Russia’s war in Ukraine, amid conflicting intelligence assessments.  While Ukraine’s military intelligence suggested the deployment is imminent, its chief Kyrylo Budanov said no buildup has yet been observed, instead predicting voluntary enlistment of DPRK […]

Explore the unofficial world of DPRK-inspired apparel at NK News Shop. Dive into a captivating collection of North Korea-themed t-shirts, hoodies and more at the NK News Shop. From the popular Daedonggang beer t-shirts to the adventurous air-cordior designs, each and the world. Hello listeners and welcome to the NK News podcast. I'm your host, Jack O'swetsuit and this episode is recorded in the NK News studio on Tuesday, the 8th of July, 2025. And today I'm joined in the studio by Anton Sokolin. Anton, welcome back on the show. Hey, Jacko. How are you?

I am doing fantastic. Now, there is a lot to cover here, a lot of Russia, North Korea related stories. So we've got you, you're the expert in the room, the one of us who can read Russian in the staff. So where shall we begin? Well, I think I would like to provide some update on actually the deployment situation because it's been a bit quiet in terms of the North Korean involvement in the Kursk region. So far we haven't heard any news of any new clashes between North Korean units and for example Ukrainian units since the moment Russia claimed that it successfully repelled the

Ukrainian incursion. But nevertheless there is still some developments that I think it would be nice to cover. Our listeners and our readers probably remember that Kim Jong-un ordered to send 6,000 military engineers and construction workers to the Kursk region. To the rebuilding of Kursk, right? Right, to help with the reconstruction of the region. Well, it will be 5,000 construction workers and 1,000 military engineers demining specialists who will be actually working on demining the area.

That's important and risky. It is very important and risky. But when they announced the deployment of this specialist, they didn't actually mention any timeframe. And since then, the South Korean intelligence kind of confirmed, well, they sort of pinpointed the dates that could happen either this month, July or next month in August. And we are expecting them to arrive. But since then there were also lots of other developments. For example,

CNN cited a Ukrainian intelligence and one Western intelligence officer reportedly confirmed the finding, corroborated it, that North Korea is gearing up for sending about 30,000 North Korean soldiers to Russia. So these are combat forces, not reconstruction. Not the engineers, yes, not the engineers. And it is allegedly planning to send them to Russia. And then probably they're going to be stationed not just in the Kursk region, but could be used in different parts of the frontline. As Russia is amassing a huge grouping, huge military grouping in Donbas, there is a key city of Pokrovsk and it's been on the news for very long now.

There's huge battles happening right now it's a key transportation hub and by taking over it you kind of get access to the transportation network and this is in occupied Ukraine this is in part of Ukraine this is yes this is a one in one of the four regions that russia claims as its own territory of donbass right and of course ukraine considers its own ukraine proper yeah and. And of course, Ukraine considers its own Ukraine proper. And aiding basically 30,000 people could be a significant boost because you free up resources in one part of the frontline, you can rearrange them,

you can redeploy them to different parts. And I talked to a few experts and potentially people say, of course, if Kim Jong-un wants, he can send even a 60,000. It's not a, it's up to him literally. But there are also, of course, uh, it's going to be, there's going to be a little bit of problems if it, if it, if it materializes because we saw in course how let's say bumpy the road was

when especially in the very beginning when, when they were trying to smooth out their coordination, try to work out communication and how to, how to work together with Russian units. But at the same time, since we saw how successfully they repelled the incursion, we can conclude that this is going to be a good boost to the Russian army and that is quite concerning. Right, right. So yeah, that level of interoperability between the Russian and the North Korean armies was not high initially in terms of well language is a

problem culture is an issue friendly fire and friendly fire equipment that they've been given sometimes North Koreans had access to their Russian comrades cell phones and could see things online that they wouldn't be able to see back home there's a whole lot of issues there and that's only ten thousand if you're now sending thirty thousand you can multiply that by three right by a factor of three. And this CNN report, well, we still don't know, right, whether it's going to materialize, it's citing sources,

but it kind of clashed, it contradicted the statement made by the Ukrainian chief military intelligence officer, Kirill Budanov, who actually said that at that moment, just days before that CNN report came out, he said that Ukraine was not seeing any signs of any military buildups on the North Korean side in Kursk. So they were not seeing any reinforcements. But he mentioned that Kiev does expect that there is going to be a huge influx of North Korean nationals into Russia and many of them are going to be signing up contracts with the Russian military to join the

fighting. Now, why this matters? Because just yesterday, I was quite surprised to see this news that President Putin, Vladimir Putin, signed a decree allowing foreign nationals to join the Russian military. So we knew that foreign nations... Fully integrated Russian soldiers. I suppose so. Of course, we still need to watch out for the details because I also... I'm a bit fuzzy because everyone's trying to figure out what exactly it's going to mean because there were already soldiers, foreign soldiers fighting for Russia. There were Britons, there were Americans, there were Nepalese, Chinese from Congo I think. There were people from all over. And the North Koreans were given Russian uniforms and Russian ID

cards weren't they? The ones in court. That's true, yeah. Sort of semi looking like Russian soldiers. Right, right. I think it was done for a different purpose because they were trying to maintain this degree of deniability. Right, these are not North Koreans, these are Kuryat soldiers or something. Yeah, exactly, the minorities. But with these foreign soldiers, it was pretty clear they had this famous or infamous Piatnashka International Battalion or Brigade run by Donbass Warlord and it's still active so they are actively recruiting and they always have people but now it seems like the floodgates are open and there is gonna be even more more soldiers and of course it aligns with the situation in

Russia right the shortage of manpower economic burden and of course the government is highly interested in not troubling the city population too much so the people who live in big cities they can carry on with their lives largely oblivious of the horrors of the war happening in the frontlines. Now on a related story about North Korean deployment to Russia, we have seen the bodies of some North Korean soldiers returning to North Korea and actual public mourning for them, right? Right.

It was the first time when we saw North Korean leader Kim Jong-un actually receiving the caskets with presumably that killed in action, North Korean soldiers killed in action, and there were a few interesting moments about it. So we can talk about basically the technicalities of how it was done and that I'm going to cover probably after this, but first let's talk about the meaning of all this. It was pretty much the first time that we know of when North Korea publicly revealed that there are actually losses our soldiers died and not on Korean soil not on Korean soil they were they died because of well they actually include it was revealed during the concert and on a big screen behind the stage they had a banner in Korean and in Russian saying that mentioning specific dates when Kim Jong-un actually signed the order to deploy his soldiers.

One date in October and two dates in December 2024. And one of the phrases that Hughes was consider Russia as your own motherland and fight for it as if it was your own homeland. Very 1940s. Yeah, very 1940s and very powerful message. And it was the first time the North Koreans got to see this. But at the same time, we can probably speculate that they have already they already knew by the time that there were indeed some soldiers fighting somewhere. And of course, when fighting involved, there's going to be losses, casualties. And judging by the public, the reaction of the audience in that concert hall, I would say that the reaction was a bit mixed. Some people were in tears, but some didn't express

much. Of course, living in the North Korean regime, you kind of probably self-censor yourself a lot in terms of your reactions in public, right? But I was expecting a bit more shocking reaction, especially when they were showing these letters that North Korea soldiers rolled right before dying and the letters were covered in blood. It's a very powerful message and I think it steers a lot of emotions in the person, but I didn't see that kind of reaction in the audience. Again, now getting back to the message, right? It seems by showing these caskets, Kim Jong-un wanted to just justify and legitimize his support for Russia and also kind of explain

it to the Russians actually that, look, it's me who is sacrificing my soldiers for you. So we've seen him in these images with the caskets. Right. So it is my soldiers we have sacrificed a lot for you and this could mean that he wants to secure Russia's support long term. And so that the war is over but you don't you forget that we have played a significant part in this and you shall not abandon us. I interpret this message like this. I also spoke to a few experts and what I was told is that it could also be interpreted as a sign of more caskets coming in soon. And they are preparing the public for that this could happen once again. I don't know whether they're going to show it to us, but that's the anticipation.

And about the technicalities, I also just wanted to mention about the logistics of how it was done. They showed only a few caskets, right? So we don't know actually the extent of the casualties. And we don't know how exactly they delivered them. Well, clearly the scene was taken on the tarmac of Pyongyang's Sunan International Airport. There was a view of the terminal a bit, but we couldn't see how many planes there were and what kind of planes delivered it. And this is significant because we know that there has been a huge uptick in air traffic from Russia to North Korea and many flights were carried out either by Russian government or military jets that

flew basically under there below the radar and we saw several Russian key military officers accompanying those caskets one of them is the deputy minister of defense Alexei Krivoruchko he's been to North Korea multiple times on multiple occasions he met Kim Jong-un personally he is in charge of military procurement so this this is the person that curates all the programs related to the provisions of weaponry which is very significant he used to be the CEO of Kalashnikov the Kalashnikov Concern, which makes the famous AK-74 and AKM and whatever rifles.

And with him, we also could see a few other military officers that visited North Korea also in November, last November. And one of them is in charge, actually is in charge of the missiles and artillery in Russia so he's the chief of that division of the arm of the Russian military and there was another unidentified officer we still haven't figured out who that person is but clearly as he participated in the talks between the Russian defense minister Andrey Belousov with North Korean military representatives in November we can deduce that he's of he's also very important though we don't Defense Minister Andrei Belousov with North Korean military representatives in November.

We can deduce that he's also very important, though we don't know what his role is at this point. But we can also assume that these officers are in charge of also these logistics, carrying out these probably flights, managing the delivery of the caskets. In Russia, we call these military flights that deliver dead soldiers. In Russia, we call these military flights that deliver dead soldiers. And in Russia, we have a code name for everything. So dead soldiers in Russia are called Cargo 200.

Cargo 200? Yeah, Cargo 300 is wounded. Okay. And the flights, the actual airplanes that delivered those Cargo 200, they're called Black Tulips. So we can deduce that probably. They're in charge of that.

And well, since every country tries to kind of obscure or hide this sort of information related to casualties, it's pretty much everywhere. The same, it's a very sensitive topic. Now, Anton, it's interesting, when we first talked about the North Korean deployment to Russia, more than six months ago, late last year, there were questions about what will be the reaction back home, how will North Korean people react to their soldiers fighting and being wounded and perhaps dying on a foreign battlefield. It seemed like a bit of a risk for Kim Jong-un to take. Now we have Kim Jong-un publicly mourning over soldiers who have died and have come back in caskets.

There may be more, as you point out. It does make me wonder to what extent that risk is real and whether there's any dissent among people back in North Korea. Of course, we haven't heard anything yet, but communication is very difficult and there's always a bit of a lag there. So we may find out in months or years that there has been some dissent. What are your thoughts on this? Indeed. I think you're right to point it out. The risk of dissent doesn't only stem from this. It also stems from the fact that these North Korean soldiers who are actually fighting in Russia or Ukraine, they're going to be coming home and they were exposed to all this

outside information. They also pose a certain risk because they're definitely going to mention that the life out there is a bit different from what we are having in North Korea and and speaking about the domestic situation right in North Korea well it seems like it was a smart move to buy Kim Jong-un to actually own up to this and rather than trying to prolong this obscure mode trying to obscure this hide conceal playing these games it was probably strategically from the PR point of view, right? It was probably the right move to actually go forward with it.

Okay, a couple of brief points because we've already gone a bit of our normal length of time but I know that there's so much to catch up. I know you wanted to tell us something about what happened to the Russian transport minister and also let's also briefly mention the fact that Russians will be going to Vonsankalma. So let's transform this first. Right, right, right. That's something more cheerful than just the caskets and stuff. Yes.

Well, cheerful. Huh. Okay. Gallows human. Well, okay. So the Russian transportation minister, as you are all aware, Russia and North Korea started building this car bridge across the Tumen River or Tumen River.

And well, the minister that is in charge of it was Staravoyt. Staravoyt is an interesting figure because he used to be also the governor of the Kursk region up until May 2024. And then he was appointed as this transportation minister and he was in charge of the logistics. It's a huge ministry that basically oversees everything from trains, airplanes, I don't know, waterways, everything. And of course he was also at the groundbreaking ceremony of the bridge construction on the Russian side, when was it, in May or or April and he had multiple sessions with his officials to review the process. We already covered that this bridge construction is probably

rife with certain corruption risks, but we are not going to go into this right now. But the fact is, unfortunately, this person was found dead, just he was reported dead just yesterday, that is Monday, and apparently he committed suicide right after Putin dismissed him, relieved him of his duties. So basically he fired him. And there are several reasons, of course there are speculations, I don't know, the investigation is still ongoing, I don't know many details, but what I can deduce from the reports is that two primary reasons somewhat to a lesser extent is the Transportation collapse that happened due to the risks of you know Ukrainian drone attacks that rendered many

flights in Russia grounded So there was basically current transportation collapse and people couldn't get in or get out of the airports and key People couldn't get in or get out of the airports and key air hops. And the other reason is probably he got to learn about an ongoing investigation into his activities as governor of the Kursk region. And as media speculate right now is that he was involved in some embezzlement schemes related to the construction of fortifications of the Kursk region, which later of course backfired because poorly managed fortifications allowed for the incursion of the Ukrainian forces in August 2024. And we'll have to see whether that car bridge continues to go on ahead under the new transportation minister. 30 seconds, Russians to Wonsan Kalma. Right, just yesterday the first group departed for

North Korea they are not in call my one Sun Cal my yet they are spending a night or two in Pyongyang because this like I dinner include several spots and yes they are gonna be the first international guests to visit the gigantic five kilometer long beach resort with multiple hotels, many of them still remaining unopened. Yeah, Colin Swirko did a great report on that looking at the map that's been released to show which buildings are not mentioned. You'll find it on nknews.org and we look forward to Anton curating and digging up some of the best Russian social media from one Sankalma once that goes up. So keep watching nknews.org.

Anton, thanks very much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. Looking to stay informed about South Korea's fast-evolving political business and cultural landscape? Join us on Korea Pro, the go-to resource for in-depth analysis, expertly curated by top tier professionals. And now you can pick the membership level that best suits your needs, thanks to our new subscription packages.

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Our thanks go to Brian Betts and Alana Hill for facilitating this episode and to our post-recording producer genius, Gabby Magnuson, who cuts out all the extraneous noises, awkward silences, bodily functions and fixes the audio levels. Thank you and listen again next time.