North Korea News Podcast by NK News - An ex-North Korean soldier’s bid for repatriation, and controversial remittances

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

NK News Correspondent Jooheon Kim joins the podcast this week to discuss Ahn Hak-seop, a 95-year-old former North Korean soldier and so-called unconverted prisoner of war who is seeking repatriation to the DPRK after decades in the South. He also talks about the controversy surrounding ROK police investigations into defector remittances to relatives in the […]

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I'm your host, Jacko Zwedsook today. It is Tuesday, the 19th of August 2025, and I'm joined here in the NK News studio by Kim Jujan. Juhon, welcome back on the show. Thanks for having me. We have quite a few stories to get into, but yesterday was the 49th anniversary of something that we call the Panmunjom Axe Murder. Oh, yeah.

where American Captain Arthur Boniface and First Lieutenant Mark Barrett were beaten to death by axes by North Koreans in order to stop them from trimming a tree. That was on August 18, 1976. They always have a memorial in Panmenjom for that. I presume they had one yesterday. Next year will be the big 50th anniversary of that incident. One of the bloodiest and most violent incidents in the joint security area. seen the film footage of that? Yeah, when it was very young, I watched that. Yeah. It's very poorly filmed. It's obviously the person who was filming that day did not expect so much movement,

so the camera's darting from left to right and not really stopping long enough to get a full focused view of what's going on. But certainly, yeah, it was quite a dramatic incident, and it led to the biggest military operation ever to chop down a tree operation, Paul Bunyan. Right, right. Were you in Korea at the time? Oh, no, I was not here in 1976. I hadn't even emigrated from the Netherlands to Australia yet. I was still living. You must be very young.

I was very young. I was living in Leiden. Well, near Leiden. Now, last week, on the 13th of August, there was a press conference, and you went there, and it's all about a 95-year-old man who wants to go to North Korea,

or I should say he wants to go back to North Korea. Tell us a little bit about that story. So, his name is Anakshub, and he was a former DPI Arge. DPI RK soldiers. So he came down to Ulzin, which is currently in North Kyeongsang, but at the

time it belonged to Kangwan province with his fellow North Korean soldiers, and he was his mission was getting to this communist office, communist office in Kangwan province, yeah, in South Korea, but

this is very late in the war, isn't it? This is around... Around 1953 or 50, yeah. Just a couple of months. April, 1953, before the armistice was signed, he was arrested. So he was behind enemy lines, well behind enemy lines, right? Right, right. Yeah. But he was arrested there, but he refused to become, I mean, he is South Korean, but he maintained his ideology. Right. That's what they call in South Korea a long-term unconverted prisoner. That's a prisoner who refuses to give up his loyalty to the

DPRK and say, I will be a loyal and faithful citizen of the Republic of Korea. I will not try to overthrow the government. I will not try to spread communism, et cetera. So he refused to do those things. That's why they call him unconverted. And he spent quite a long time in prison. He was released 30 years ago in 1995 about the year before I first came to Korea, even though he still, as far as I understand, he hadn't converted, even in 1995. They just said, well, you know, you're 60 now, will let you go. Right, right. And he lived for many years in Gimpur,

which is where I lived in 1999, didn't know him then, didn't get to meet him. Unfortunately, it would be fascinating to meet him in Hiri's story. And in the early 2000s in, I think it was, gosh, was it when Kim de Jung was president, they sent a whole bunch of these unconverted people back to North Korea.

There was a deal between North Korea and South Korea, and they repatriated a bunch of these men, and there was a documentary made about that repatriation. It's called Songhuan. Have you seen that film? I have. Very interesting. You can find the whole thing on YouTube, Songhuan or Repatriation, which is about the group of, I forget exactly how many, 20 or 30 or so, of these North Koreans who remained loyal, were handed back to North Korea, welcomed and treated as heroes. North Korea released a sheet of stamps, one for each of the men who handed back.

But this guy, Anak Soap, he said in the early 2000s, I'm not going to go back. Why? Because he wanted to fight against the U.S. military. So he wanted U.S. military to get out of South Korea. And he was involved in a lot of protests. Right. I mean, I don't know what he thought. I don't know what he realistically thought he was going to do because he was already in his late 60s by then.

But, you know, somehow he said, I'm going to stay here in South Korea. And I'm not going to leave or go anywhere until the Americans leave the Korean Peninsula. And, well, they haven't left. And now he's 95. and he wants to be repatriated. Why?

Because he's very old now. Yeah, he said he's very sick. And, yeah, he was seeing a doctor. And he doesn't want to get buried in South Korea because he thinks this is a colony of the United States. Right, right. Okay, so he remains very ideologically committed, very loyal. And in fact, he's got a group around him,

the Unhawkshopperatriation Promotion Group. They're the ones who held the press conference in Zhongno last week. and they have demanded that the South Korean government allow him to be sent back to North Korea, repatriated through Panmunjom at 11 a.m. tomorrow, August 20th. Is that likely to happen? Well, Unification Ministry didn't really answer that, so I'm not sure what's going to happen tomorrow,

but he's still going to walk back home, no matter what happens. You're going to try to walk to Panmunjom. But as you know, I mean, you've served in the military here. You don't, I mean, I can't even just go. one can go to Panmunjom just like that. You can't just go there, right? It's first of all, you have to get through the line of civilian control, which is a couple of kilometers before the de-military zone, and then you have to get into the demilitarized zone, two kilometers to Panmenjom, to the military demarcation line, and then you're finally crossing in North Korea. And no one's

doing that without permission of, A, the South Korean government, and B, the United Nations command. Right, right. UNC is in charge. And both UNC and South Korea haven't publicly said that they're going to help him to get to North Korea, right? It's a, it is a, it's a sad, a sad story. I mean, here's a man who, A, he's lived a very long life, he's 95, he wants to go back to, well, wants to go to North Korea, although he's originally from the South, but for ideological reason he wants to go to North Korea to be buried there.

I don't know, what do you think? Do you know, my feeling is sort of just on a human rights basis that a country shouldn't forbid a person from going where they want to go. So if this man wants to go to North Korea, if I were president of South Korea, I would say, let him go. He's not coming back. He's not going to, you know, we won't let him come back to South Korea. We'll give him a one-way ticket to North Korea. And if he wants to die there, that's his choice.

Right, right. But I wonder how North Korea would respond to this. Well. Yeah, it's their soldier who spends more than 42 years in the South Korean prison. But there have been other, you know, back in the first case of this was in 1993. Two years before Anak-Sop was released, there was. Rie, what was his name, Rie, Inmore, if I remember his name correctly,

I think he was possibly a Zainichi, Korea. Anyway, he'd also done some time in South Korea, and they repatriated him. North Korea welcomed him, made a book about him, you know, and they did this with the 30 or so men in the early 2000. So, I

imagine that North Korea could make this into a propaganda victory if they wanted to. Right, right. But that's okay, you know, that's what North Korea does. But let the man go if he wants to go. It's a sad case He's still in People's Democratic Party It's a political party in South Korea

But yeah They call for United States Army To move back to the states They do, right, yeah Okay, well, let's see what happens tomorrow Tomorrow is, by the way I'm going to mention this It's the National Civil Defense drill tomorrow

Not at 11 o'clock when he wants to march Over Panmunjom into North Korea but at 2 p.m. We'll hear the air raid sirens and for 20 minutes we're supposed to stay off the streets and park our car by the side of the road and if we're in a tall building

we're supposed to go to a shelter. Have you done this before last year? Yeah, last year, it was interesting. Last year I was working from home and so I looked at the map to see where the nearest shelter was and it was in a bank building nearby and I went to that building

and I said, so is this open for people to come in to the shelter? He said, no, no, it's only for those who work in a building. So I'm not sure where I was supposed to go. And the building managers of the apartment that live and also didn't know where I was supposed to go. So a lot of people don't take it very seriously anymore. Right, right. It's not that it's, yeah.

Right. I think we'll find in this office building that people will continue to work at 2 p.m. tomorrow and not go anywhere. But, yeah, that's one of those stories. Now, you were at the press conference last year of Hanna, last week by Hanna, Unhack Sob. There was another press conference given recently, this time by people who are defectors, refugees from North Korea to South Korea, a lot of whom send money to their families in North Korea, what they call remittances to inter-Korean remittances, statistics from NKDB, the database of North Korean human rights, led by Hanna Song, who I've interviewed in a podcast a few times,

they say their statistics show 41% of the escopies who they serve, surveyed, had sent money to families in North Korea at least once in the past five years. It's quite common, and they had a press conference. Why did they have the press conference? So, NIS, National Intelligence Service, was in charge of these cases for a long time. But when you're in charge of? What do you mean? So they were supposed to investigate those brokers who were sending money back to their families. but since 2004, I believe January last year, the police, the South Korean police. Right, Korean National Police.

Right. They're in charge of these cases. Right. Yeah, they started investigate these cases very actively. I'm not sure why, but I think NIS didn't care too much about it since. But technically it's a breach of the law, but as you say, the NIS didn't worry about it because they don't see the amounts as being very large. And they don't see it as being directly helping the North Korean state, but helping it. relatives of people in North Korea.

Right, but maybe for the police, they need to improve their performance records. Maybe, yeah, that could be the reason. Right. And so some of these people, what they were, arrested, charged, fined for sending money to North Korea, right? Right, right. So, like, these two people that I'm at,

their trial is happening August 29th. Okay, so they're late next week. Right. And they were a couple, actually. Ah, and their charge was sending money to their family. members. Right. They were actually helping other North Korean defectors. Ah, they're the middlemen. They're the brokers. Yeah, they were brokers and they were working with one Chinese broker. Right. Yeah. Wow. And so that, so they basically said, you know, at their press conference,

sort of leave us alone, right? Right, right. Stop doing this. Stop this investigation. Right, right. Have the police made any statement in response? I tried to reach out to them, but yeah, I was not able to get their comments. Now, interestingly, South Korean lawmaker John Linton, or in your house, who I interviewed on the podcast last year. He's from the People Power Party. He's actually pushing a change in the law, isn't he? Yeah, he's trying to legalize this.

Right, so that North Korean refugees living in South Korea can legally, through some process, send money to North Korea, or at least that the police will leave them alone. Right, right. Yeah, that's what his assistant told me. Right. Do you think that has much chance of getting support? Right now, under the E.

Zey Jiang administration, things are changing very quickly, so it might be possible since they're trying to allow all those humanitarian and those kind of activities. Yeah, it's an interesting subject, though, isn't it? Because typically the Democratic Party, the Minju Party of Korea, when they're in charge, things go badly for North Korean refugees in South Korea, right? That makes sense, yeah. Their human rights are negatively affected. They're discouraged from speaking in public.

and, you know, for example, we know that NKDB had no access to refugees in Hannawan during the Mung Jain administration. But in this case, because it's sending money to North Korea, perhaps they will get some relief. I don't know. But I don't think the Kim Jong-un regime would like this. So, I mean, yeah, John Linton is in People's Power Party. Right, conservative. So, yeah, I guess, like, D.P. might not like this. Right, that's a good point.

So if the North Korean government says to the South Korean government or just makes an announcement through its propaganda organs, we don't like this. We don't want your dirty, tainted money coming from the south to our people in the north, that the E.J.Mong administration might be inclined to crack down even more and investigate that. Okay. Another human interest story here about featuring refugees

is that there's a new boy band with members from North Korea. Yeah. So two new K-pop boy bands, B-Boys and... Oh, two. Yeah, B-boys and Universe. They have some defector members. Right. So Universe has two defector members,

and this group doesn't really have any South Korean artists. So they have five members, and the rest three are all non-Korean. Two of them are American and one Japanese, so it's a very neat group. Oh, that's quite international. American, Korean, sorry, Japanese and North Korean,

all in there together. Right, right, right. That's fascinating. Okay. Now, how do they feel about you doing a story on them featuring their North Korean past? So, yeah, I was not able to get the interview because they don't,

it seems like they don't want themselves to be labeled as defect their idol. Yeah, because I'm, so this is what their executive director told me. They, yeah. I mean their agency? Yeah, their agency, yeah, their agency, yeah. So, because if you put the label Defector, it kind of sounds like, you know, like they only have to focus on North Korean music, right? So maybe that's the reason why they just want to be just regular K-pop idols instead of North Korean Defector Idol. Okay, but you know that they're defectors because they have actually talked about it in the media before, right?

Before they debuted in a boy band, they've been on TV or in other Korean media talking about. out there, you know, one of them, for example, was homeless in North Korea, which, God, I can only imagine that hardship. But now that they've got this boy band, they're like, well, we want to kind of downplay that part of my story because it doesn't help. Right, right. Also, like, a lot of K-pop idols, they go to China and Southeast Asia. And one of the music industry experts told me,

it could be a problem if they perform in China, like, since, like, China is supposed to repatriate North Koreans. Okay, but surely they'd be traveling on a South Korean passport. Right, so legally it's not really a big deal, but... I don't think there's any precedent. I don't think China have ever sent back a North Korean with a South Korean passport to North Korea, right? I don't think it'd never happened.

Right, right. But this music expert, like, he used to train other defector artists, and he told me, going to China could cause some type of political issues. Yeah, so, like, I think they kind of have to, like, downplay their identity, yeah. I'm sure that, I mean, look, once China knows, I'm sure it's in the files, right? They're not going to forget, even if you downplay it. But there was a mention in your story of an older previous girl group of defectors, right, from almost 20 years ago. Dallé Music Troop, yeah.

So this one was disbanded because of, like, internal issues. Right, they had some infighting, some jealousy and things. Right, right. So their manager said they were being jealous of each other. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but... Were they singing K-pop or were they doing Trot? Do you know what sort of music they were doing? I think it's not exactly K-pop, but it's probably similar to Trot.

Okay. Old style, old style of K-pop, I would say. Right, so there are actually some, or they have been, and now there are even more Korean pop music groups or popular music groups, I should say, rather than K-pop specifically. So these two new groups are, what, B-Boys and Universe, you said, hey? Let's see how they go. Okay, and, yeah, last thing to leave us with Juhan,

I understand that you're going in for some reserve military training soon. Right, right. So I was in the military. I was in Katusa. Ah, the Korea augmentee to the United States Army. Right, so I was serving and living with the U.S. military. Which base? Camp Humph.

That's the main. base here in Korea. Now, you're exactly the kind of man that Unhakshop would not like, right? Because you're kind of helping the U.S. military here for your... How long was your service, your period? I did it for almost 20 months. Okay. But, yeah, I think it's 18 months for... Yeah, it's getting shorter, shrinking, it's shrinking. It was almost two years for you.

Wow, okay. Would you, if you had the chance, would you interview An Huxop? Oh, yeah, sure. I mean, like, yeah, I mean, I'm technically his enemy, but it could be an interesting conversation. It would be fascinating. Yeah, look, I hope you do get the chance. I mean, I'd certainly, I'd love to have him on the show. We'd need an interpreter, of course, but it would be a fascinating story. I do hope he finds peace in this life. Anyway, thank you so much for walking us through these stories today. Kim Johan, we'll see you on the show again soon. Thanks for having me. Looking to stay informed about South Korea's fast-evolving political business and cultural

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Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of our podcast episode for today. Our thanks go to Brian Betts and Alana Hill for facilitating this episode and to our post-recording producer genius Gabby Magnuson who cuts out all the extraneous noises, awkward silences, bodily functions, and fixes the audio levels. Thank you and listening again next time.