North Korea News Podcast by NK News - Jeongmin Kim: The importance of Track 2 diplomacy on North Korea

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

On this week’s episode, NK News Correspondent Jeongmin Kim discusses her time at the Munich Security Conference, an annual meeting on international security policy that has been held in the German city since 1963. She discusses the conference’s focus on the war in Ukraine and North Korean security threats relating to its ties with Russia. […]

You're listening to an exclusive episode of the NK News podcast available only to subscribers. You can listen to this and other episodes from your preferred podcast player by accessing the Private Podcast feed. For more detailed instructions, please see the step-by-step guide on the NK News website at nknews.org slash private-feed uh... hello listeners and welcome to the NK News Podcast. I'm your host, Jaco Zwetslu and this episode was recorded on Friday, the 21st of February 2025. I'm joined here in the studio by Jongmin Kim who has just come back from the Munich Security

Conference as part of the Munich Young Leaders 2025 delegation through partial funding by the Kerber Stiftung or Foundation, if you must, welcome back, Jong-Win. Thank you very much. It's been, wow, what a week. Yes. How was Munich? Was it a clown show? Yes, but not the one that I expected. What I expected when I was going there was, of course, first of all, I was very grateful for the German embassy for nominating. And I was like, oh, this is, I'm'm so honored I was so excited to see all the like high level engagements and talking about transatlantic unity and

you know security stuff and then this conference for those who for those two or three people who are listening who don't know has been going on since the 1960s and it is the biggest deal in security discussion you know global security discussions for years right yeah yeah and the young leaders thing it's also very, it's been a, I think it started in 2008 by I think, what they explained was that Kissinger was the one that brought up the issue that there should be younger people in the room, like not, I quote,

hairless or white hair people, if you look from the back. So we were the hair, not hairless and with some hair sort of people who were there. So we were the hair, not hairless and with some hair, sort of people who were there. So we were like all very excited. We were always, you know, moving around together, the younger people, like from 24 different countries, which was a very balanced group, by the way, like more than 50% women.

And so we were excited. Conference organizers in South Korea take note. Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna do like a whole thing calling them out. But it was interesting because it was an excitement not coming from Positive expectation but a negative one because there was rumor on the first day that Vance is coming for a speech US Vice President JD Vance, right and it wasn't in like an official brochure at first But everybody were talking about just fans at first because at the same time there

was a rumor that, rumor at the time, that Ukraine war-related negotiations might go ahead at the Security Conference. And that turned out to be true later with a political exclusive, which was a, you know, partner of the conference, which sort of broke the news about later about the negotiation happening in Saudi Saudi but without Ukrainian delegation on the table. So when Vance appeared everybody was just like is he going to mention the Ukraine pact any hints that we might hear about it will North Korea be a Part of it we thought yeah, and then he went on and deliver like a full speech First of all, so this conference showed I guess overall that the US is moving away about European Democratic values. Don't tell me too much yet. We're going to build up.

First of all, so this conference showed, I guess overall, that the U.S. is moving away from it, is less interested in Europe and collective security. Did it also hint at a possible, you know, the same thing happening in Korea, you know, in the worst case scenario, a possible end to the U.S.-South Korea alliance? Well, that was the question that I actually posed when I met foreign minister, Choo Tae-yeol on the sidelines. But I did surprise him a little bit because I did not tell my government that I'm going.

I sort of kept it a, I kept low profile until I arrived there. Because ironically, it's very difficult to meet our ministers back in Seoul because of the political turmoil that is going on a lot of investigations and you know Detainment and everything so I very intentionally went to the session where the my foreign minister was there Yes, and he started talking about and the moderator from Brookings She kept pushing him on nuclear armament issue in South Korea because of the whole yes problem, right? And then he kept saying oh, but the despite everything, is an irreplaceable ally. So my question to him was, well, you said irreplaceable ally,

and then you said that there is bipartisan consensus in the Capitol Hill about how protecting South Korea is important right now. But what if, and I agree, but what if you and I are just horribly wrong, and this sort of marks a start of an end of the, you know, paradigm shift of like what US actually means to a lot of countries, including South Korea. And are you prepared for that?

Well, how did he respond? I imagine because I started my sentence with the, if he would say, oh, I don't answer hypothetical questions, but actually he took it seriously. He said, well, what if I'm wrong? We have all options on the table, he said. We being South Korea has all options on the table, including maybe going nuclear.

So my intention was to ask him, are you maybe trying to diversify your security guarantee, not just on depending on US, but maybe European partners was my intention. But the moderator jumped in and said including a nuclear argument are you as a part of the option like I just did then yes yeah of course like you know journalism you know instinct and then he said it's too premature to discuss it right now. Yes. But everything is on the table but that's not taken into the air.

Well, so how did South Korean officials, both in Munich and back here, how are they responding to growing fears that the Trump administration could take this transactional approach to alliances to its extreme end? So basically, it seems like the coordinated response is to pretend that this is not too serious.

Okay. Because our acting president, Choi Sang-mok, although I do understand like from And the coordinated response is to pretend that this is not too serious. Because our acting president, although I do understand from a perspective of a leader of a country, you shouldn't be stoking fear too much. But then right during the second day of the Munich Security Conference, there was this news about even more tariffs from Trump administration. And then it looks like the South Korean officials were saying that, although we get it, it's a transactional sort of narrative and the intention, but we, it's not going to hit South Korea too much with South Korean officials' response,

which I do disagree with. But I think for the main ones and the sideline, you know, there were bilateral and trilateral meetings at UNIC Security Conference halls as well, right? And that was something South Koreans were actually paying most attention to, I believe, rather than the actual conference. So the South Korean foreign minister met with Rubio, who was there, and also the Japanese foreign minister as well in a bilateral and a trilateral. Okay, so the three top diplomats of Korea, Japan and the United States together. What were the outcomes of that?

Was that open or closed doors? Closed doors, but I kept reading about it. And it looks like from South Koreans point of view, they were keeping a very close eye on it because of FOMO, because Japanese Prime Minister already did a summit with Trump. And then South Korea does not have a president right now. So South Koreans were feeling seriously FOMO and actually at risk because we don't have a counterpart who can engage with a very personality,

personal relations sort of driven president in the US. So all eyes were on the Rubio meeting, but the content itself was very, you know, just as expected. So ironclad and... Ironclad, reinforcing the alliance and deterring North Korea from adventurism and provocations. Denuclearization of North Korea, the commitments. Okay, so that came out of that.

That came out, yeah. This is a little bit of an aside question, but do you wonder, as I did, as I do, what the personal relationship of Yun and Trump would have been like? I think it might have actually worked well. Yeah. Because if you look at Biden and Yun, I think like say what you will about Yun, but I think he rocked like the personal relationship part with Biden as well, because, um, sure, there was strategic South Korea's considered strategic hub throughout the Ukraine war. But also, if you look at the optics that the that the foreign ministry and the presidential officer prepared for the summit, you can tell that

you was having a good time and Biden was having a good time, you know, you and singing and everything, they know what goes viral. And Trump sort of likes that sort of optics as well. Yes, going viral, looking like friends and everything. So I think they might have been a good duo actually. Except for the drinking part. Except for the drinking part, you're right. And that is a big part in the social dynamics.

That is true, but then if you think about the Korean culture, I think if you're a superior who drinks well with your puhas, the people who work for you you and being a nice drinking moderator, I should say, and Korea being a senior. I think that's what Yoon is very good at, drinking with people who work for you, basically. But I think, well, I haven't, I've never drank with Yoon,

so this is all, you know, just a guess. But I'm assuming that with two liter to liter sort of thing, like you wouldn't like go until like 4 a.m. drinking boktanju, like soju and makeju together or whatnot. So I think that wouldn't have been that much of a problem, but maybe golfing, Yoon's lack of golf skills might have been a problem actually. Could have been a problem, yeah.

Now who else was representing South Korea at the conference as well as Foreign Minister Jo Tae-il and how visible was their presence, or the presence of Koreans in discussions on Indo-Pacific security? I'm just going to be frank, it was almost invisible. Foreign Minister Cho Tae-yeol did not appear on the participation list until the very last minute so there were news at first about Cho Tae-yeol sort of deciding not to go to the Munich Security Conference considering a lot of things going on here, including the impeachment hearing,

which we saw the 10th one yesterday, potentially the last hearing. Potentially the last hearing. Because there were some extra... I don't want to... This is South Korea. Keep going. Yeah. We'll talk about it later. But there were maybe, I think, three that I saw on the list, minus the staffers that were helping the foreign minister out. I think there was a climate, the person in foreign ministry that's in charge of climate because climate security was one of the topics in the Security Conference. But aside from that, I almost became the only Korean if Chotair decided not to go actually until the very last minute. Well, and when you were introducing yourself as a South Korean delegate,

what were the main reactions from those at the conference? Was it about North Korea or was it about the political turmoil in South Korea that you've already referenced? And what does that say about how South Korea and North Korea are being perceived in these circles right now? Curious to hear the rest? Become an NK News subscriber today for access to the full episode. Head to nknews.org slash join for more information. If you're already a subscriber to NK News you can listen to full episodes from your preferred podcast player by accessing the private dash feed.