North Korea News Podcast by NK News - Joh Kyeongil: What it means to be a progressive North Korean defector

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Many prominent North Korean defectors who have resettled in South Korea are known for their alignment with conservative political causes, such as the former DPRK diplomat Tae Yong-ho, activist Yeonmi Park and defector lawmaker Park Choong-kwon. But author and political commentator Joh Kyeongil has built his reputation as a defector who supports progressive stances, advocating […]

You're listening to an exclusive episode of the NK News podcast available only to subscribers. You can listen to this and other episodes from your preferred podcast player by accessing the Private Podcast feed. For more detailed instructions, please see the step-by-step guide on the NK News Podcast. I'm your host, Jaco Zwetsloot and today's episode is recorded on February the 14th, Valentine's Day here in the NK News Podcast Studio. And today I am joined by Jor Gyeong-il, a North Korean defector and political commentator with a truly unique perspective. by He's also an author, a YouTuber, and an advocate for change with a keen interest in bridging divides on the Korean Peninsula.

And you can find his YouTube channel at peace underscore agora. That's a G O R A. We'll put a link in the show notes. Welcome on the show, Jorg Jong-il. Thank you for joining me. Hello. Thank you for having me. So we were introduced a few weeks ago by our mutual friend Joseph Jun, the American, Korean-American documentary maker, who I hope to have on the show one day in the future.

He's working on something very interesting now. But he said that you have a unique voice in the North Korean refugee space or North Koreans who live in South Korea. I know that defector is not popular with some people, refugee is not popular with some people. So let's just say North Koreans who live in South Korea. It's a very long phrase. Okay. So you said you have a unique voice

because you are a progressive North Korean refugee. What does that mean? Well, I think of course there are various voices among the North Korean defectors of course. And they are just not exposed to the media, I think. And up to now, when we're just looking at the political inclinations, I think the defectors, they're just exposed to the media.

Their voice is like a conservative voice, you know? So I think there are many conservative voices because of the mainstreams, they just focus on that voices. When you say conservative, it means sort of a very strongly anti-North Korea stance. Exactly. Strong on the U.S.-Korea alliance.

Strong on defense against North Korea and also making the North Korean threat very big. Right. So I think there is progressive voices, but since North Korea and South Korea relations are not really good and also conservative party, they have a policy toward North Korea, like strict against, right? So because of that, North Korean defectors, they also have a kind of trauma because they are being oppressed from the regime. So because of that, so conservative party, they are hosting the conservative defectors. So I think... Because of their experience in North Korea, right being

oppressed by the North Korean government, right they are Welcomed by the progressive, but what do they call it now? They're sorry not the people of the People Power Party what what you call the Conservative Party, right? That's sort of a natural home for many North Korean defectors, right? so because of that many of people like South Korean, they know that most of North Korean refugees, they advocate the Conservative Party, but that's not true, actually. Really? Yeah. Okay, but before we go too far, how do you define your political position? What does it mean to you to be progressive? Well, okay, I'm a progressive and advocate of course, the progressive politics.

Since I came to South Korea, I have been involved in progressive politics and I also worked as a secretary in the National Assembly. So when you say progressive politics, you mean sort of a social democratic sort of more wealth redistribution, higher taxes, stronger unions, that kind of thing? Yeah, it included that. Yeah. But the point is that the progressive party in general, they usually advocate for the least, you know, the minor people. Okay, so the weaker members of society. Right. Yeah.

So what about progressive on North Korea? What is a progressive position on North Korea or a progressive stance on North Korea? Well, in North Korea, you mean? No, no, I mean living here in South Korea as a progressive person. What's the progressive policy on? I think the point is that we need to solve the North Korean human rights their reality right there through the policy, but the progressive party they

think that the relations through the relations then it can be improved the North Korean the people's human rights. So by improving inter-Korean relations between North and South Korea naturally human rights in North Korea will also be improved. Is that what you mean? Right because once we improve the North Korean and South Korean relations, then there's so many side effects that we can support the food, of course, and the healthcare things and sports and so many side effects are possible. So that can help the North Korean people there and also their human rights, I think. I don't know, maybe it's just that the Minjoo Democratic Party is not very good at giving the message because when there is a president from the Minjoo Democratic Party in the,

we used to call it the Blue House, the Chomad there, but now presidential office, in the, we used to call it the blue house, the Chomad there, but now presidential office. The human rights groups in South Korea who are talking about human rights problems in North Korea, they have a hard time. They have a difficult time with the government. I won't say they're oppressed by the government, but they're not favored by the government. They're not welcomed by the government when there is a progressive president in power. We saw that during Noryongjin, we saw that during the Moon Jae-In time. So what do you think about that? Well, it's kind of sophisticated, you know. But I think that this is frequency, so we can do whatever we can do, right? So in the NGO, they do really good things.

They put the information into North Korea and they try to save the North Korean people too. But the pro-Russia party, the policy is that they, I think they picture it more widely. What I mean is that since we can improve the government relations, they can be solved. And also maybe it can be happened many side effects. So like we can enter exactly the North Korea also and then we can send the food and then the North Korean people also they can feel familiar to South Korea. And also they can learn from each other, like a complex, like an industry complex. I think that's a good model.

But without doing like a improved relations, then we just keep saying that North Korean human rights, blah blah things, that does not exactly change in North Korean human rights in North Korea. That's the key point, I think. So what attracted you to progressive politics when you came to South Korea? Well, I was, maybe you, you guess, I was the poorest and lowest class person in North Korea, right? And where in North Korea is your hometown? Well, it's the very northern part, they called it like Aoji, it's well known in South Korea. It's like a coal mine, you know, and well known as a, there's a prisoner camp, but that's, that's fake news. There's no prisoner camp

There's no prison camp in Aulji. Yeah, not the prisoner camp. Anyway, um When I was in North Korea Since I was weak, so no one listened to my voice, you know And when I was hungry and sick and like sad or even like treated unfairly No one spoke for me, right? But and sick and sad or even treated unfairly, no one spoke for me, right? But yeah, because I was a weak person and with no power, you know what the Bible, the Proverbs say, chapter 31, verse eight says,

speak for those who have no power, right? And deaf and mute and blind. So I think I just decided to live for people like I was before. So that was natural to support policies for me. Has it been challenging to hold your political views in South Korea? I mean, is it difficult? Well, yeah, it is difficult. I'm a North Korean defector, right, in South Korea. Whenever I support or advocate the progressive policy or the candidates, South Korean, most of them are conservative views.

They are labeling me, you know, like you are the spy from North Korea. How can you support the progressive party you're from North Korea? How can you support the pro-Japan party from North Korea? That doesn't make sense, right? It's frequency, you know? But still they are blaming me as a spy or like a communist. Yeah, and as you said before, that's because one of the reasons is most defectors who speak about North Korea in public, they are very strongly anti-North Korea.

They want to see regime change in North Korea or the end of the Kim government in North Korea. Do you think there should be regime change in North Korea? Is that something that you believe in? Sure. Yeah, the North Korean regime should be changed. And how can we achieve that? What's the best way to... Yeah, that's the big problem because it's been like 70 years passed, right? Almost 80, yes. Yeah, even the Great

America couldn't change the North Korean regime, right? So that's really hard thing. But we need to change North Korea somehow in one day, so that North Korean people should feel freedom and feel free to move to the other region and go to the other world. So I think the conservative views and also progressive views, we all have the same purpose, but the method, that's a little different. Because of the difference, we just blaming each other, I think. So do you think that the best way to change North Korea is through kindness? Well, that does not define as just a word of kindness, but we need to think

the realistic views. You know what? We can't blame really easily to the others, but that remains just blaming, right? That does not make change the one who really we want that. So I think blaming that's really needed, but also at the same time, we need to give carrots. So that North Korea should be the member of the normal state nation, as a normal state nation, and as a United Nations, of course, and also in the worldwide. because North Korea these days, they just like isolated, right? Yes. They have no like connection with the other world. Well, with Russia and China and Iran and until recently Syria.

Yeah, they are all the dictatorship countries, right? So we don't say they are like free country, right? So we need to find the strategy because of this point. Yeah. How do other North Korean refugees in South Korea, how do they look at you? Or how do how are your conversations with them? Curious to hear the rest? Become an NK News subscriber today for access to the full episode.

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