North Korea News Podcast by NK News - Kim’s redevelopment plans, Trump’s fund freeze and tour companies in North Korea

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un announced that old and deteriorating neighborhoods of Pyongyang will be redeveloped in the coming years, according to state media this week. NK News Lead Correspondent Shreyas Reddy joins the podcast to discuss Kim’s revelation that major annual residential construction projects in Pyongyang won’t end when the current 50,000-home project […]

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Thank you for having me, Jaco. And let's go through some of the latest news. I guess we should start with the traumatic funding cuts that the United States has announced. Yes, that's made a very big difference now, obviously. All the headlines in the past week have been about cuts to USAID and everything. But at the same time, the Treasury has frozen funds off the National Endowment for Democracy, which has played a crucial role in funding many organizations working to improve North Korean human rights.

Okay. All right. So can you name some of the organizations that are likely to be affected by this? Yes, indeed. So one prominent example is the Database Center for North Korean Human Rights or NKTB. Okay. We had Hannah Song on the show not long ago. Indeed. Others like the Citizens Alliance for North Korean human rights. So we've spoken to some of them here at NK News and I think as you can imagine,

it is definitely a difficult time for many of these organizations, a lot of uncertainty about the future. So some organizations perhaps are a better place to continue to carry on their work, but certainly will be affected. But others, many of them risk perhaps a temporary, maybe even a permanent closure if they cannot make up for the funds that have been lost. You mean because they were dependent upon mainly one source of funding, that being the US government? Pretty much.

And I think the US government has played a particularly big role in funding these initiatives, such initiatives for North Korea as well as other countries. Like a lot of these organizations focus on countries like North Korea, China, various other parts of the world where the US is trying to spread basic freedoms or spread information related to those. And basically with that US funding gone there's no clear idea where the money is going to come from. That's quite drastic. Are we seeing the work of these

organizations stop overnight or will it take some time before they peter out? I mean I think it'll take a little while definitely. Certainly funding itself, while the US government is certainly trying to cut it as soon as possible, it's not like the funds that have already gone have completely vanished. Right. So there will still be a little time, but again, depends on the organization. Some might be in a better place to carry on for a little longer, some not so much. Now you mentioned, so the main organization mentioned here is the National Endowment for

Democracy. Yeah. But there are also other organizations like the National Republican Institute, the National Democratic Institute and the Department of State's Office of, I always forget the name of it, but it's like the Office of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, or the Office of Democracy, Labor and Human Rights. Are they also affected by these funding cuts? Well, to be honest, at this point it's hard to say where the

funding cuts will stop. Right now, Elon Musk's Department of Government Deficiency is trying to cut government funding everywhere possible. And so it's something that we are going to see more and more sources of funding dry up in the next few weeks and months perhaps. It's hard to say just the full extent of what is going to stay, what is not. And what are some of the actual, you know, practical outworkings? Like what sort of work will be stopped in terms of North Korean human rights? I think essentially many of these organizations rely heavily on US funding for a lot of their basic operations. So anything from, in the case of defective focused organizations, the work they do, the projects they have, the initiatives.

So data gathering, advocacy. Yeah, very much. So research, advocacy, like you said, but in general, many support programs as well. So it's hard to see how they're going to really recover from them in some cases. And I think certainly some of them have indicated it could be months before they have to shut down if they aren't able to cope with it. Have alternative sources of funding been mentioned already? I'm thinking about the South Korean government currently, which has a hostile policy towards North Korea or the Unicorea Foundation.

I think that's something that, well, one, it's a massive amount of funding to essentially recoup and so it might be hard to do it from just one source, but also there will be uncertainties. There might not be able to commit as much or as quickly. And certainly the South Korean government right now is going through its own challenges, its own uncertainties about what will happen in the future. So I think it's hard to see where this will come from. And from the US side, certainly because the fundamental cause at the end of day

appears to be the Trump administration thinking that any funding heading out of the US to organizations working on international issues is a waste of US taxpayers money. That problem means we probably will not see that money coming back. It'll have to, it will probably have to hope that some others will step up to the plate, but they probably will not be able to hit those heights. Are you aware of any organizations that work in the North Korean human rights space that do not receive money from the US government, that are not dependent upon that for the large

source of its income? I'm thinking of Liberty in North Korea, LINK for example. I think that's not dependent upon US money. Well, to be honest, I will admit I'm not entirely, I'm not fully aware of their sources of funding, but I imagine certainly a lot of them, like Link in their case, they get funding from all over from many sources. From private donors mainly, yeah. From private donors, yes. So perhaps they're in a better position, but at the end of the day, there will always be some knock on effect as well.

Yeah, that's right. And I'm also thinking of the voice of the martyrs Korea, Eric Foley, who we had on the podcast a couple of times there, very proud and saying they don't get any government money. But yeah, those that do that, this will really change the landscape of the North Korean human rights discussion, certainly in South Korea, but also around the world. It's an area that's been growing for the last quarter century and now it may have been struck quite a serious blow. Yep, definitely. Okay, wow.

All right. Now, let's talk about a very different story there that Western tour companies had their first trip to North Korea. Tell us a little bit about that. We're not gonna spend too much time on this because coming up in the next couple of weeks, I do have an interview I recorded yesterday with two tour leaders who went back to North Korea.

Yes, indeed. So last week, after many, many ups and downs, Western tour companies finally managed to re-enter North Korea, crossing over from China into the border city of Rasson, so essentially which is a special economic zone. And it appears North Korea has decided that is where it is first willing to allow foreigners, particularly Western or non-Russian tourists in general actually, to re-enter. And that is...

Right, because Russians have been allowed into Pyongyang for a year now. Pretty much. So they made their first trip back into North Korea, well, about a year ago, February 2024. Right. And since then, they're the only ones who have been able to go back, not even Chinese tourists, who used to form the bulk of their tourism earlier. And there were big question marks so far, when is North Korea going to finally reopen? And we've seen a few announcements

from these tour companies over the last six months or so saying, they're about on the verge of reopening. Maybe they'll do it by Christmas, like December. And then inevitably, every time there were reversals, even in the case of Rasson, in January, these two companies announced there would be an opening, a return to North Korea with Rasson. And then last, beginning of last week,

they said they had been blocked essentially. And then within a few days, suddenly they were back in Rasson. A lot of confusion, yes. We should point out that the the five-day trip that recently took place was only staff members of companies there were no fee paying tourists yet so we have not yet had a fee paying tour group from a Western non-russian country to North Korea so that's still in the days to come. Yes as you said it is pretty much a staff member,

so it's essentially kind of like a fact-finding mission, planning, trying to engage with North Korean officials and understand what has changed, what they're allowed to do, what the programs should be. But at least one of the tour companies has since announced it is going ahead with the tour this week, so expect to see more information in the coming days from the tour companies and then from us as well. Yes, and the big question for a lot of people is of course is

you know the what would really show a sign that North Korea is reopened for visitors again would be if there is another April international marathon like they used to have every year before COVID. Yes. The Mungongdae Memorial Marathon. And that's something that would definitely be worth keeping an eye on because in the past couple of months, the North Korean sports organization website, Sports DPRK, has published a few notices related to the marathon on its website suggesting it might go ahead now. This could just be a placeholder, a template, which they can recycle every year,

but they hadn't done it in the previous few years. And on top of that, recently Russian ambassador to the DPRK, Alexander Matsagora, said that Russians athletes are certainly going to be participating in that. There will also be Russian supporters. So if now Russians were already allowed, but perhaps if foreigners are now being allowed

back into the country, Western tourists, Chinese tourists, then maybe others could also end up participating in it. Goodness me, okay, and there's not much time left for the marathon, because that's usually done in early April, so it's less than two months away. So things have to be cleared up very suddenly, I mean very quickly, if companies want to take in large amounts of tourists.

I remember that when I went there last in 2019, there were a couple of thousand people. Now, not all of these people will be able to drop their plans at a moment's notice and say, oh, I'm gonna go to North Korea. So you need a bit of lead time. And all of this goes to show, I suppose, that there seems to be some friction or lack of coordination

internally within North Korea between those who would like to see more tourists come because they have a vested interest they do earn money from this this is their work this is their business and on the other hand the North Korean security services who get to make the final decision on who comes in and who doesn't come in. Yeah and I think we've certainly seen different corners of the North Korean government, the North Korean authorities seem to have different views on these and a lot just seems to come down to whoever's calling the shots at any given moment. The situation might change. Indeed. Okay and our third and

final story today is one about outdated neighborhoods being redeveloped in North Korea. Yes. So North Korean leader Kim Jong-un over the weekend held a ceremony kicking off construction of 10,000 homes in Pyongyang's Hwasong district. So this is the part of the grand plan to construct 50,000 new homes in Pyongyang, which they announced at the 2021 Party Congress. Some of those 50,000 houses have already been built, right? Yes, so they've pretty much been trying to go at 10,000 a year.

So some of them have already been inaugurated. And now as they begin the fifth and final year of that project, this is a new stretch, 10,000 homes in that area. And along with all of this, Kim Jong-un announced plans to redevelop what he called backward areas of Pyongyang, so such as Tungmae-dong, Wolhyang-dong, and Hadang-dong. And essentially, many of these tend to be a little more in the, to some extent, in the northeast of the city. And with this, the idea appears to be just continue this expansion, continue this redevelopment

to try and improve the capital's facilities as part of this general project to restore the city, to redevelop it. Yeah, these are neighborhoods that tourists are usually not taken to. No, definitely not. I think it's very much more aimed at the domestic audiences in the streets. Gosh, okay. Well, 10,000. Now, North Korea is not known for its degree of high-tech used in buildings. So it does sound like it would be a very labor intensive project, would I be right? Yes, well quite often, I mean these projects typically end up using worker builders, like soldier builders from the People's Army units, youth shock brigades, youth volunteers, and

a lot of them tend to typically be involved in the construction of these projects. And so they've managed to make relatively fast progress on them. How resilient, how well built these structures are, that's something that only time will tell. Because they seem to be certainly all right. They seem to be good enough for them to inaugurate for people to move in.

But it's when you build something in a rush, you never know how it'll be. And when we have photographs of these constructions going up, it normally looks like quite old, old is the wrong word, traditional architectural techniques, bricks, a bit of rebar, some concrete, but it's not like steel frame buildings or things that we see in other countries, right?

When it's painted over, it looks great, but beneath that facade, it's standard brick and mortar and concrete construction. Yeah, pretty much. I think North Korea is not really looking to push the bar with how it's trying to construct these things. It's going to follow the methods it knows, just try and do it in a more intensive manner. But we are seeing them at least try and raise the bar in some other ways. For example, build an 80-story concrete skyscraper in the new Songhwa Street and trying to build a lot of new facilities

in the new areas as well that they're now developing. And perhaps most significantly is, at the end of the day, the pace at which they're going. So in April, they're planning to open the penultimate batch of houses, inaugurate them, and then the final batch with them now begun next year. Wow, that is impressive, isn't it? Now in the article written by our colleague Colin's work titled, Pyongyang's Rundown

and Outdated Neighbours to be Redeveloped, Kim Jong Un, which our listeners will find on the website, there are some great photographs showing aerial shots of Pyongyang and which neighbors are going to be changed. But also at the end, there's like a little postscript there that Kim Jong-un went to visit the Kum-Susan Memorial Palace to mark his father's 83rd birthday, his late father Kim Jong-il. Yes, indeed. So he hasn't really done, made this visit for the last couple of years, but this is traditionally how he marks the birth and death anniversaries of the former leaders. He right. February 16, two days after Valentine's Day is Kim Jong Il's birthday. Exactly.

And so in the early years, Kim Jong Un was fairly, was very diligent about these visits. But in recent years, he has perhaps torn down the focus on this, which some say is down to trying to just raise his own profile and perhaps lower the status of his predecessor a little bit. So trying to build up his cult of personality at the expense of this, perhaps. It is interesting that the state media did refer to the occasion by the previously widely used official name, the Day of the Shining Star. That's been downplayed or missed out a little bit lately.

In fact, for two years, Kim Jong-un didn't go to public celebrations for his father's birthday. But this year, he went back to the mausoleum and they're using that name again, the Day of the Shining Star. It's almost a little bit like one step back and one step forward. Yeah, I think to some extent though, we've seen even a lot of this was raised with the Day of the Sun, Kim Il Sung's both anniversary last year where... April 14th?

So 15th. Oh God. Look out. Re-education for Jaco. Yes, absolutely. Jaco will take you to a nice camp. But yeah, so April 15th, the day of the sun, ahead of the event, and even after there was some speculation that North Korea had started using terms like the April holiday, rather than specifically using day of the sun. But perhaps it was more that they ended up using it for some official notices in state media, which is much like this mausoleum visit. But the general celebrations, they kind of downplayed that name.

They started using more generic wording. And perhaps we're seeing that with the Day of the Shining Star as well. It is still going, it's not completely removed, but perhaps it'll not be used as extensively as it used to be in the past. A fading out. Yeah. Interesting. All right.

Well, we'll keep an eye on that. Thank you very much, Riz, for coming back on the NK News podcast. See you again soon. Thanks a lot. Looking to stay informed about South Korea's fast evolving political business and cultural landscape? Join us on Korea Pro, the go-to resource for in-depth analysis expertly curated by top-tier professionals.

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thanks go to Brian Betts and Alana Hill for facilitating this episode and to our post-recording producer genius, Gabby Magnuson, who cuts out all the extraneous noises, awkward silences, bodily functions and fixes the audio levels. Thank you and listen again next time.