North Korea News Podcast by NK News - Lavrov sails on Kim Jong Un’s yacht, military parade prep and wastewater rumors

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

NK News Senior Analytic Correspondent Colin Zwirko joins this week’s episode to discuss Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s high-profile visit to the newly opened Wonsan Kalma beach resort, where he met Kim Jong Un aboard a luxury yacht. He also dissects emerging signs that North Korea is preparing for a military parade and possible mass […]

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as well as much, much more. To find the best fit for you, just head to signup.careerpro.org and become a member today. Hello listeners and welcome to the NK News podcast. I'm your host, Jack Oswetsky, and today it is Tuesday, the 15th of July, 2025, and I'm welcomed here. I'm not welcomed. I'm joined here by Collins Wirkow. I welcome you. I welcome you. Thank you. It's been a while since we've had you on the show. There's a lot that we can

talk about today. But I want to start off with Sergei Lavrov's visit to North Korea over there in in Wonsan. And that kind of ties in some of the stories that you've been looking at lately, right? Yeah, so the Russian long-time foreign minister arrived in Wonsan on the East Coast over the weekend I believe like a blade on Friday night and I was really interested to see that because Well, North Korea said back when they opened this new one San Como Beach Resort, which I'm sure you talked about sure weeks ago, right? Yeah, that is cited you yeah They made this big fancy hotel right at the center with all these rooms that looked like they were made for summits.

And then they said in state media that they were going to hold host important state events at that hotel. So here they went and did it. The strange thing was that Kim Jong-un met the foreign minister Lavrov on his yacht instead of that hotel. I still think I'm still saying that he's that Kim is gonna meet some world leaders at this hotel that's made for summits and he's got this summit room with this rounded this big round table and a rounded windows looking out over the beach. Is it rotating? No. Okay, but but you know if it's not gonna be Putin because Putin just came to Korea To North Korea and it's probably not gonna be Xi Jinping. So maybe it'll be Trump. Maybe we already talked about this I don't know but no

Maybe I guess it could be because this is it kind of ties into Trump's vision of North Korea as a Remember that video that he showed of yeah, that was a wonderful tourist mecca with the white horses running through the ocean and stuff That was pretty wild. Yeah, that was yeah but anyway back to Lavrov so the the details that came out of both official state media reports from both sides not that detailed but you know mentions of Ukraine North Korean support for Ukraine and Mostly the consensus is that they probably talked a lot about weapons Mostly the consensus is that they probably talked a lot about weapons transfers from North Korea to Russia, whatever else Russia is giving them back in return, the soldiers going to Russia.

So that was probably a big part of the meeting. Sending Lavrov is an interesting choice though, right? Because he's not actually a defense minister or a defense guy. So do you kind of wonder why him? Well obviously the talks were about other things that, you know, he held his, what did he say? Three hour long talks with his counterpart, Choe Sun-hee. And so they're, they have a lot of exchanges going on these two countries, all

kinds of stuff. I think that, well, at least some of the comments that the expert comments in, in our article, uh, we're saying a big portion of it is going to be Kim interested in the military component, even though Lavrov is not the military official. So yeah, I'm not sure exactly. I'm sure they have a lot to talk about other than the military, of course. Right.

But yeah, so him coming up, I mean,evera coming over, that's a big deal. It does suggest that there might be something big cooking, right? And you did say that there's no big reveals from the state media report so far. Do you think we'd be expecting something in the next month or two? That's hard to say. I really don't know. Okay. And he, Kim welcomed him on his yacht. Is this the same yacht that Dennis Rodman went to about a decade ago? Could be, actually I haven't reviewed what kind of photos are available from that, but.

Cause that was also over there on the east coast in Wonsan, wasn't it? Or near Wonsan. Yeah, I'm sure that whatever he did, Rodman would have ridden on these. So Kim Jong Un was on his Princess yacht. This is something he purchased for probably seven million or more dollars back in, you know,

2010, 2011, right around when he came, became leader. He has any idea who he bought that? He has at least two of these. There, there was an investigation on our website. I think, I think we were the ones who broke that story back in 2013. And it said like this model, there's a lot sold from this model and so that it it was hard to track down exactly the the seller so I don't think it was tracked down exactly it could have come from there were some named

sellers a lot of our stock back then but I don't know but this is the first time we've seen pictures of it up close so okay if anyone really wants to investigate like a decade old sanctions violation, which no one seems to care about anyway, then maybe there's some more clues in those photos. Well, and you have to wonder also whether Lavrov and Chesson, he talked about sanctions and how to work around them. Well, Lavrov talked about sanctions in his little press conference or to media after it. And yeah, it's, he criticized the new sanctions, what is it called?

The new sanctions monitoring team, non-UN, US led. But of course Russia is responsible partially with China for killing the UN panel of experts that monitors and tries to help enforce the sanctions that are still in place. Mm-hmm. But no, Russia doesn't care about sanctions. And we also have some statements from Lavrov about North Korea's right to possess nuclear arms. Lavrov said, Pyongyang drew the necessary conclusions well before the US and Israeli strikes on Iran, which ensured its security. And he added that Moscow respects and understands the reasons why the DPRK is developing its nuclear program. So yeah, I mean if any

hopeful Nuclear states out there read that sentence. All you have to do is have a viable foreign threat Right to then claim your right to nuclear weapons So I don't think Lavrov's thinking much about the non-proliferation regime that he seems to care about, but it's all just, you know, same with the US. They support a country like Israel with nuclear weapons, then non-proliferation doesn't matter. Okay. Anything else to say on their meeting or the visit to Wonsan? Well, they talked about how they wanted, well, Lavrov said he wants more tourists to come

from Russia, and it just completely remains to be seen So what's interesting is I think it's true I think I would have to go back and look at all the details, but do you remember this the the claims that China was somehow Making it happen to send a lot of tourists to North Korea back in 2018 2019 to send a lot of tourists to North Korea back in 2018-2019. Somehow state policy from China to support North Korea monetarily by sending a lot of tourists in. Now logistically, I'm not sure how that works. I think maybe they're a lot more eager Chinese tourists, group tours. They're very used

to these group tours, right? It's a very popular thing to do in China. And so they were going to North Korea in droves more than before 2018. And now obviously it's not happening. And if Russia wanted to somehow monetarily support North Korea in the same way, it's just I've been told it's not going to work that way. How do you round up Russians to go to Wonsan, Kalama? So although that's to be seen, I think last week on the on the podcast, we talked about the first group of tourists to come and would be from Russia.

And I wonder whether they're the same time as as Lavrov are we already seeing some social media posts? It was kind of a clue they were there from like the 8th to the 11th and then Lavrov arrived just after that so You know once they leave then North Korea is free to clear the zone so to speak which I think they're gonna do from now on And you know back to any anytime they want to host someone, it's a nice little secure place. They got an airport. They don't really have to prepare the population for anything. Right. I could bring Trump in and they wouldn't have to make a pig.

That'd be interesting. Yeah. Yep. I haven't seen any, any social media posts from Russian tourists yet, but hopefully soon. Right. I want to know if they are actually allowed to walk the zone freely. I want to know if they have wifi, things like that. You. I want to know if they have Wi-Fi, things like that.

Are North Korea really prepared to make this an actual tourist zone or is it the same old restrictions as usual? Now our next story is that it looks like you've spotted some signs that Pyongyang is setting up for a big October event. Right, North Korean state media has been talking about the 80th anniversary of the Workers' Party of Korea, the official 80th anniversary of the workers party of Korea the official 80th anniversary coming up on October 10 They've been talking about that all year saying it's gonna be a big event

But as usual North Korea doesn't really talk about all of the events that they are planning ahead of time They don't really announce these things like the same way China does for example China is gonna have a big military parade on September 3rd this year. They talked about it they've been very open about these preparations north and they're very open about the kind of big weapons vehicles that they're practicing driving up at their their military Parade training base. Mm-hmm in northern Beijing, but North Korea is not very open about that stuff So we have to look at satellite imagery. So But North Korea on the other hand is not very open about that stuff. So we have to look at satellite imagery. Satellite imagery.

So basically North Korea has not failed to host a military parade on a five and ten year anniversary of the of the workers party found the foundation of the workers party since like 1990 or 1990. So 1995 through 2020 they've done a military parade on October 10th. They've done it for five years. Yeah. So it's pretty much a given that they're going to do it again this year. They haven't had a military parade in a couple of years now after having three in 20, seven since 2020. So we see in satellite imagery that they are starting to gather these troop carrying trucks

at the medium military parade training ground in Southeast Pyongyang. So it's a sign, it's not a, you know, there's, like before sometimes you see the troops out there forming the formation of like 75 and you know, it's okay, well they're obviously practicing for the 75th anniversary. We haven't seen that yet, but we'll probably will once the rainy season clears

and we get more satellite imagery, we'll probably see more signs of the military parade But let me ask you this is it not also possible that they could be preparing for an 80th anniversary of Korea's liberation Parade on August 15th. Do they not celebrate that? Well, no Well, what I mean is I haven't seen anything like 80 or anything if I saw 80 if they if I saw them preparing a Big eight zero formation. Maybe you start to question something like that. But so far, the timing of everything, the fact that they always hold a military parade on this day,

I think it's safe to assume that the signs point to that event. So you're looking to an October event rather than an August event. Yeah, and obviously there's also 7-2- July 27th the big... Right but that's not a five or a ten. No no but it's also when you see signs like this you have to think of all the potential. Yeah yeah yeah because I'm thinking about a friend of mine forwarded to me an email that that he got from one of those career friendship associations in which they were reaching out and inviting people from around the world to come to Pyongyang, specifically for the 80th anniversary of liberation on August 15th, which makes me think that maybe they've got something big planned for that.

And that is two months before the, well, a month and a half before the October event. So maybe that could be what they're preparing for. Or they could be preparing for both. Don't know. Yeah, really don't know. I wouldn't put it past them to do both. And this is, it also looks like they've got some mass games coming up for the first time in five years. Yeah, that's another one where we're having to rely on satellite imagery. There's a very kind of it's very nuanced little sign. You see that them covering up the field of the May Day Stadium in white material.

They've if you baseline this and look at satellite imagery imagery, this almost daily Planet Labs imagery going back to 2016-2017, they've only done this particular action ahead of the mass games. So that's why we think that they're going to have the mass games. But the thing is they used to hold the... If you want to explain what the mass games is. Well, yes. So the mass games, when I went to North Griff for the first time in 2010, they had the Arirang Mass Games. That was a long-running series for many years in which there are basically dancing and gymnastics performances and also the the flip card books over in the in the stands where the human pixel, the children who hold the flip books to make a big picture. Think of them each as a pixel. Yeah.

Right, and so it's like a, almost like a circus in a way, but it's a massive display of human endeavor covering an entire stadium. And the May Day Stadium, it's the biggest one in Pyongyang, isn't it? Right, and it's a propaganda show. It's to tell the official narrative of the country's history

and the current ideological priorities. And so they used to run this every year. It was like... Madeleine Albright famously went to one in 2000, and the flip books, the human pixels, did a rocket going up into space. Yeah, there you go. Didn't Moon Jane do a speech at one? Or was that a different type of event?

I think that's right. It might even have been the May Day Stadium. It was in the stadium. And so it takes 100,000 people, children, adults. I think that's right. I think that's right. It might even have been the May Day Stadium. It was in the stadium. Yeah. And so it takes, you know, a hundred thousand people, children, adults, takes a lot of their time practicing everything. And in the past, they would do it for such long periods. They would tourist, it would be a big tourist draw. But the strange thing is, well, they haven't held one since 2020.

And that was during the pandemic. And the weird thing about that year was that they prepared well in advance, but then they seemed to only maybe hold it once on the October 10 holiday. And then after that, there's really no confirmation that they continued to hold it daily or whatever. Right. Cause there were so many rehearsals.

I mean, it'd be almost a waste just to do it one time and then be done with it. Well, no, cause that's what the military parade is, right? They rehearse forever and then they do it once. True. And so I'm guessing it's probably going to be the same thing this year. It's meant to be part of the holiday, part of the, you know, the ideological routine of the country, but probably not a tourist draw this year will get to be seen. And it'll have a new name. It'll have a new narrative potentially. There's probably going to be a lot of Russia soldiers related stuff, soldiers fighting in Russia type of stuff. So we'll see. Now the last one I want to talk about today is the story that's kind of been ongoing for

a while since I think Daily NK first broke it about the fears that Seoul has that North Korea might be releasing, perhaps even deliberately, a radioactive contaminated water into water supply that would end up in the Han River or the Han River estuary. Yeah, I think the Daily In-K story was a satellite imagery analysis that made some assumptions that have turned out to be not true. What has happened was it caused alarm because it made some claims that satellite imagery suggested that some radioactive waste water was being deliberately or however dumped into the river that flows down 50 kilometers towards the Han River estuary, which is where the north, it's like at the west end of the border,

that's the border. Right. It's where the Han River meets the sea. Yeah. Yeah. And this is water that's possibly coming from the North Korean Pyeongsan uranium concentrate plant. Yeah, which is 50 kilometers north of Kaesong and the border. So it would, the river flows from there, past there, down then out into the sea where on one side of the river's edge is South Korea. Yeah. And so the claim was that it's a connect contaminating

whatever fishing, anything related to South Korea caused a lot of alarm. South Korea did testing, emergency testing. They also referred back to previous routine testing and said there is no danger, there is no radioactivity in the water. We ran a contributor satellite imagery piece going back over the satellite imagery historically showing that, well suggesting that there

isn't any radioactive wastewater going into the river. So it seems to be a debunked story that I guess South Koreans don't have to worry about. For those of us who are not eyes in the sky and expert satellite imagery analysts, how do you see from a satellite imagery whether there's something radioactive in the water? I don't know, I didn't do this particular analysis, but I think that it was looking at physically the connection between this wastewater pool

from the factory and then how it's connected to the river. I think it was something like that. I don't know if you can really tell. I think the Daily NK report was looking at color. It might not be a very scientifically sound way to analyze. There's a bit of politics involved in this, Troy, isn't there? On a related note, I remember when Moon Jae-in was president and Japan was going to release some radioactive water from the Fukushima power plants' water cooling tanks into the sea saying that it's been diluted enough that it's not going to have a deleterious effect on wildlife. And Korea said, but the fish, they know get irradiated and come to Korea and then there were people that saying well

We can't eat the fish anymore coming from Japan And so this one this issue here was could have been handled in the same way But it was kind of the story was kind of buried for a while. It felt like yeah, I mean, it's interesting I think the story didn't have so much momentum to begin with the way that the Fukushima story did. Yeah Um, I don't know if it's worth going in to say do people Get more up in arms about a Japan related thing than a North Korean related similar thing. I think they do Yeah, I I just think that it's what it's not in the psyche of many people this this uh potential threat from this particular Uranium mine and now it looks like for now. There's no there there in the story, right? Nothing to worry about this potential threat from this particular uranium mine.

And now it looks like for now, there's no there there in the story, right? Nothing to worry about. Yeah, it seems that way. I think the conclusion is obviously you don't wanna just write it off and be like, oh, you're good, North Korea, this is a great factory you got going there.

There's no, they're not part of the NPT, there's no check, no one's going in to check the safety. I think it's in North Korea's interest not to pollute this but you think like how in control is this factory management? You've got factories in the US South Korea who if they're privately owned They're they don't really care about the local population and they might pollute the water just because it's good for their bottom line Not to worry about it. and maybe the management at that factory Maybe they think something similar but as long as the authorities are on top of it I think it would be in their interest not to pollute the local population

Well, let's hope South Korea continues testing and monitoring that thanks for walking us through these stories Colin great to have you on the podcast Again, see you again soon. Thank you, Jack See you again soon. Thank you, Jacko. in vintage airline chic. Explore the stars with our Nada hoodie, inspired by North Korea's answer to NASA. Or toast to tradition with our Taedonggang beer t-shirt, capturing the essence of North Korea's renowned brew. Each design is a conversation starter. Find yours at shop.nknews.org. Again, that's shop.nknews.org.

Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of our podcast episode for today. Our thanks go to Brian Betts and Alana Hill for facilitating this episode and to our post-recording producer genius, Gabby Magnuson, who cuts out all the extraneous noises, awkward silences, bodily functions and fixes the audio levels. Thank you and listen again next time.