North Korea News Podcast by NK News - Loyalty relays for Kim Jong Un, and North Korea’s terms for talks with the US

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

This episode of the NK News podcast unpacks the unusual loyalty relays taking place across North Korea, where both children and adults carry letters pledging fealty to Kim Jong Un. NK News Lead Correspondent Shreyas Reddy also discusses new murals of the leader, some of which appear to have replaced longstanding depictions of his father […]

Welcome to a new realm of insights into the Korean Peninsula. At Korea Risk Group, we delve deep into the complexities of North and South Korea, offering bespoke analyses that empower decision makers. Whether you're in government, business, or academia, our tailored solutions provide clarity in an opaque region. Let our team guide your strategy with data-driven insights and on-the-ground intelligence. Step into a world of informed decision-making and visit careerriskgroup.com today. Hello, listeners, and welcome to the NK News podcast. Today, it is the 23rd of September, 2025.

It's a Tuesday. I'm your host, Jacko's Wedsoot, and joining me here in the studio today is Shreyas Ready. Shreyes, welcome back. Thank you, Jacko. Chairman Kim Jong-un, or Marshall Kim Jong-un, I do forget his title sometimes. He's kept us busy the last week. We've got a few things going on. Let's start with the new images.

Yeah, so essentially over the last week or something, So state media has prominently emphasized loyalty letter delays across the country in which essentially North Korean citizens show their loyalty to the leader, their obedience to the leader, by running essentially across the country, carrying loyalty wows, pledging fealty to the leader. What if they can't run all the way? Well, essentially... You said it's a relay, so they're sort of handing off these letters of loyalty to each other?

Yeah. Yeah. So they're pretty much handing a little loyalty and covering hundreds of miles in the process for each route. Is there a film of this? I don't remember. I think there was, but there definitely been a lot of photos in state media. Goodness. Yes, there was some broadcasts on Korean Central television as well. Is everyone expected to do this in North Korea? Not everyone. Usually, traditionally it's been actually mostly focused on children when they've had these sorts of relays. but this time they've also got adults participating

so a rare occasion but quite interestingly I mean in itself this is quite a show of North of Kim Jong-un's growing cult of personality in North Korea trying to show how everyone respects him but at the same time that could just as easily apply to the institution

of his leadership but what is perhaps what really stood out to us here we come was something that was you could see in the background which is in many of these cases when the photos of the starting points of these relays showed the runners and officials gathered in front of Kim Jong-un murals in different parts of the country. Right. And in at least five of these locations, they seem to be completely new murals that hadn't been seen before.

And when you look at them, these murals essentially show images of Kim Jong-un, glorifying him. It's a standard tradition for North Korea to do this for its leaders. But perhaps it's quite unusually in this case. In at least a few of those cases, it appeared that they had come in place of murals or art depicting Kim Il-sung, Kim Jong-il and his grandmother Kim Jong-sook. And so in the process, it seems that to build up his own cult of personality, Kim Jong-un is now very clearly sending a message that he stands above. these other leaders, by former leaders, by essentially placing himself and taking down their monuments. Right. Now, okay, I'm going to be a bit of a pedant here. Are these murals in the sense of paintings, or are they mosaics, or a bit of both? They're usually mosaics, so, yeah.

Now, I know from my last trip to North Korea in, I think, 2019, that I really should have picked this up much earlier. But anyway, just for our listeners, to show the level of reverence given to these murals. When a bus or a car is going past there, it has to slow down to a much slower speed than normal. I think it's 10 to 15 kilometers per hour. And if you're on a bicycle, you have to get off and walk the bicycle past a mural. So there are certain laws of respect accorded to these murals of Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il, just to, again, to show the reverence that is accorded to these images. And now we have Kim Jong-un's picture up there on those mosaics, replacing some of those of his father and grandfather, presumably the same rules apply.

You'd probably have to slow down your bus or car or get off your bike and walk. So clearly he's been leveling up his cult of personality, as you say. Yeah, so it appears. And this is something we've seen increasingly over the last few years. New portraits of him unveiled all of the country, including at New Carter School, portraits of a portrait of him alongside his father and grandfather. and in last year there were also reports of, at least there were actually visuals of new Kim Jong-un badges that were worn at one particular set of party meetings, but essentially, and so it was only for

high-level officials, not distributed to the general public, but that particular badge showing his face, it was something that was previously reserved only for his father and grandfather. Right. What about statuary? Any Kim Jong-un statues at this stage? Ah, not that I recall, but I think we'll have to check. But think that there's certainly been other signs of, you know, that... I'm just thinking of, Kim Jong-il while he was alive, if I'm not mistaken, he was careful not to erect statues to himself while he was alive. Yeah.

Although there were pins and other state-sanctioned portraits and things. It's part of that building up of your own image, your own legacy. Yeah. It's very interesting. Now, of course, my trivial mind automatically, my first question, upon seeing this news about the new mosaics of Kim Jong-un replacing those of his father and grandfather was, I wonder if there are rules around showing proper respect to the father and grandfather when removing these mosaics, would they have to be chipped off very carefully or maybe remove the whole stone and put a new one in his place?

Because you can imagine that if you're a North Korean worker and your task is go down to this particular location in Pyongyang and remove the face of Kim Il-sung and or Kim Jong-il, you probably wouldn't want to be going there with a hammer and chisel and just smashing it to bits. I imagine there are some very careful rules around how you do that. Well, perhaps one would assume that there's some respect still given. Obviously, these are still to senior formal leaders and in a country that reviews them.

But at the same time, we don't really know exactly how they're going about this after all. Exactly, this is not what they're showing. but we may find out later in time. It's just one of those interesting historical questions. Yeah. Who knows? Perhaps they may also just have carefully taken them away and just set them aside for now. Yes, in some sort of a giant warehouse

like the one at the end of the Raiders of the Lost Ark. The sort of previous images no longer needed right now, but we can't destroy them or let them be desecredits or just sort of store them here in this safe place. Like an archive of previous images. Imagine finding that building, Shrears, when Pyongyang opens up one day. Yeah.

Oh, also just to go back a little bit, just to confirm, so just checked a little bit, so no statutes of Kim Jong-un so far. Okay, so that one, you're still keeping that one for a future date? Yeah. Okay, now, Kim Jong-un has given some speeches recently. He has said a lot of words, and I'd like you to tell us a little bit about them, and then we'll talk about who the message is for. Yes, so over the weekend, North Korea's Supreme People's Assembly, which is...

That's their parliament? Yes, the Robustam Parliament, essentially just there to authorize whatever King. Kim and the ruling party have decided already. So they had a session, and when the Supreme People's Assembly has a session, for many people, they look at it and say, well, if they're just going to authorize whatever Kim Jong-un is saying anyway, what difference doesn't make. But it's still an important procedural organ, and any legal changes, any legislative changes and any big statements coming out of it can still hold a lot of weight.

And on this occasion, we didn't see any major legislative changes. They passed a few minor laws and amended another one. But Kim Jong-un attended himself and he gave a speech in which he very clearly set out his intent. And one particular headline item coming out of it was essentially Kim Jong-un reiterating that North Korea will never, ever give up its nuclear weapons. But at the same time, he said that there would be. open to meeting with the U.S. with Donald Trump, if the U.S. abandons its, as he put it, absurd obsession with denuclearization. And this, in some ways, it follows on from what we've seen coming out of North Korea so far. A combination of things, one is that since 2022 legal

change enshrining North Korea's nuclear status and law, they've been very particular, very emphatic about saying they are not going to give up. their nukes, that their North Korea's nuclear status is irreversible. But in the past few months, we've also seen statements, for example, from Kim Jong-jong and now from Kim Jong-un, which is a much higher level, saying North Korea has some good memories of Donald Trump, as Kim Jong-un put it. I think he even used the word fond, at least in English translation, right? Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, he did say that they're not willing to meet with the U.S. until, as long as denuclearization is part of the negotiations.

Now, on one, depending on how you look at it, some people would look at this and say, well, denuclearization is non-negotiable, which means, I mean, you can't remove it from the U.S. perspective. So essentially, he's rejecting talks. But from another perspective, it actually does open the dough for talks with the U.S. U.S. with Trump in particular saying we have a good relationship, but also perhaps a little aware that if any U.S. president is going to buck the trend on denuclearization and say, you know what, we don't need to do this. It might be Donald Trump, who has already shown

his willingness to completely sidestep Washington's Longhill policies and has, on at least a few occasions, called North Korea a nuclear power, which isn't the same as recognizing it as a nuclear state, but at least it seems to signal that he says, okay, North Korea already has nukes and that is part of the reality. Yes, and we know that Donald Trump is scheduled to come to the APEC summit at the end of October down in Kyeongju, leaving open the question of what if he sends another message to Kim, but you know, why don't we meet in Panmunjom? The timing of Kim's speech at the Supreme People's Assembly, it does seem like he's sending a message to America and to other countries, right? He's not just talking to his own people. This is a message for the world.

Yeah, definitely seems like it is something that could be quite possible. At the end of the day, we know that Trump isn't above sending out a message saying, hey, why not just meet a panhand job like we did last time? If North Korea is to respond to that, I think they would perhaps need more clearer sign that Trump is willing to at least say, no, we're not going to talk about denuclearization. It's not on the agenda. I don't think the U.S. is quite ready to actually go and say we're not going to deal with denuclearization. It's not on our agenda or all, but... But you might say it's not for now.

Exactly. Right. I mean, I don't think, did they, at the last Panmunjohn meeting in June or July 2019, did they, you know, at their bilateral talk, did they even bring up denuclearization? I think it wasn't part of the readout, certainly. But, yeah, with that particular meeting, because a lot of it was unofficial and just cobbled together. last moment to begin with, I think there's certainly a lot that we didn't really hear about from both sides. And in that sense, it could be the same again. It could be just a, hey, let's just have a chat and talk about talking. Yeah. Without bringing up nukes. Yeah. And the question

is whether that's enough for what North Korea feels, whether it actually wants a commitment from the US that we want to talk about denuclearization, or whether it just says, well, maybe we while we can get them on the hook, let's just go with it and settle for as long as they don't bring it up, that's fine. So that's something that we'll have to see. But certainly, like I said, Donald Trump's not above just making that personal outreach just before coming here. There'll certainly be other visits on Trump's agenda, other other meetings. And I think he's indicated that he's going to meet Xi Jinping while he's here. And so that perhaps is a bigger priority from his current policy agenda.

But Kim Jong-un still represents a possibility of a wind down the road if he's struggling to make headway on Russia, the Middle East and China. What did Kim Jong-un say to or about South Korea in his speech of the Supreme People's Assembly? Essentially reiterating what he had already said in late 2023, Kim Jong-un had declared unification an impossible goal, said we're walking away from that idea of ever unifying with South Korea. We're fundamentally two different countries now. And that is a message that he repeated here,

said that essentially the two countries are now, he views South Korea as a hostile state as an enemy, and the unification cannot really take place, one of the Korea ceases to exist. And I think in some ways that very much builds on what he had already been saying for the last couple of years, but now very much solidifies it. And it also kind of says that from his perspective, he has said before, irrespective the administration in South Korea,

we do not view much scope for unification with them at this point. And at that time, it was conservative president, Yunso Gyo, in the old. in office. Yep, now we've got E. Jam Yong. Exactly, yeah. Now, one more thing to ask you, Matt, before we finish up, we've got an NK News exclusive. Somebody from North Korea will be going to the United Nations General Assembly meeting in New York this month. Tell us.

Yes. So, an informed UN source told NK News that North Korea is set to send a high-level delegation led by a vice-foreign Mr. Kim Jong to the UN General Assembly's general debate, which begins today and Kays on until next Monday, until the same day. September 29th. And Kim Son-Kyong is supposedly going to speak on that day, the final day of the session. And in itself, to people who aren't that well-versed with North Korea's history, recent history with the UN, that might not seem like such a big deal after all. You're sending a vice-foreign minister to an event attended by world leaders. But this is the first time

since 2018, that North Korea will have someone other than the, then it's envoy to the UN address the UNGA, the general debate. So for the last six years, since 2019 onwards, it has been Kim Song, the North Korea's UN ambassador. Before that, it used to be the foreign minister or the vice foreign minister. And essentially this kind of signals greater willingness, perhaps to at least engage with the international community on that level. Perhaps to show its solidarity with, let's say, Russia and China and other countries that it feels more closely aligned to, perhaps to make its opposition to the US and South Korea clear. But also, perhaps it may just open up a back channel for negotiations with the US, which is

something we haven't seen before. It doesn't appear to be top of their priorities for now. but in Kim Jong-jong-jong, they have someone who has a long history of dealing with the West. He spent most of his career first in Eastern and then Western Europe, working with Western Europe. But in recent years, he has also increasingly focused on the UN dynamics and the US in relation to that. So most of what he has been done in the last years has been just lobbying hostile statements at the UN and US. so it's not like he's just there to make peace, but fundamentally he is functioning on behalf of the state.

If the state now says we want to at least have some sort of talks with the US beyond the New York mission, which is long served as the unofficial channel, then he might be the person to do that. But for now at least, it appears that the first priority is just at least making sure that North Korea shows that it is still an international player, it is still a part of the UN and has a presence on the world stage. Very interesting, Schraise.

That's where we're going to leave it today. Hopefully by next week, Tuesday, we'll have some news to report out of the UN General Assembly to see more about that. Thank you for walking us through it, Schrazz. Thank you. Looking to stay informed about South Korea's fast-evolving political business and cultural landscape, join us on Korea Pro, the go-to resource for in-depth analysis expertly curated by top-tier professionals.

And now you can pick the membership level that best suits your needs thanks to our new subscription packages. Starting at just $199 annually, you can access daily analysis and our weekly podcast. Or try our premium membership package, which offers additional perks

such as executive briefings, monthly reports and forecasts, networking receptions and event opportunities, as well as much, much more. To find the best fit for you, just head to signup.compro.org and become a member today. Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of our podcast episode for today. Our thanks go to Brian Betts and Alana Hill for facilitating this episode. And to our post-recording producer genius Gabby Magnuson who cuts out all the extraneous noises,

awkward silences, bodily functions, and fixes the audio levels. Thank you and listen again next time. You know,