North Korea News Podcast by NK News - Moon Chung-in: Why the window to rebuilding inter-Korean relations is closed

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

In this episode, NK News welcomes back Professor Moon Chung-in, one of South Korea’s most influential scholars of inter-Korean relations to assess the landscape on the peninsula today and what prospects remain for diplomacy. He discusses why he believes North Korea has officially abandoned unification in its current form, how inter-Korean engagement has become increasingly […]

You're listening to an exclusive episode of the NK News podcast available only to subscribers. You can listen to this and other episodes from your preferred podcast player by accessing the Private Podcast Feed. For more detailed instructions, please see the step-by-step guide on the NK News website at nknews.org slash private-feed uh... hello listeners and welcome to the NK News podcast. I'm your host, Jaco Zwetsloot and this episode was recorded in the NK News studio on Thursday, the 22nd of May, 2025. And we have a returning guest today and that's Professor Moon Jong-in, Professor Emeritus

at Yonsei University and one of South Korea's most influential scholars of inter-Korean relations. He has served as special advisor on unification, diplomacy and national security to former president Moon Jae-in and has long been a key advocate for diplomatic engagement with North Korea. He was last on the NK News podcast all the way back in May 2019, almost exactly six years ago on episode 71. So if you want to go back and listen to that one, by all means, welcome back on the show, Professor Moon. Hi, thank you very much for inviting me. Well, thanks for your time today. So you've been, as I mentioned in the introduction, you've been close to inter-Korean diplomacy for decades, but you said in early 2024, just over a year ago, that we're in a brave new world with North

Korea. If Lee Jae-myeong is elected on June 3rd, do you believe there's any real possibility of rebuilding the inter-Korean relationship, or has that window already closed? It will be very difficult. I think the window is closed. No, North Korea made it very clear. Temporarily or sort of longer term? It's all depend, you know.

First of all, it was an inter-Korean relations will very much dependent on DPRK-US relations. DPRK-US relations will be conditioned by what would go on in Ukraine in front. And also what will happen in current negotiations with Iran. And at the same time, you know, what President Trump can do with Chairman Kim Jong-un. Those are three important factors. OK.

And we'll return to them later, but let's start immediately with what you said that the DPRK doesn't seem interested. Kim Jong-un said at the end of 2023 that he's no longer interested in peaceful unification with the South. And during last year, we saw a number of signs that really put that anti-unification policy into practice. And last month, we had some foreigners who visited North Korea to go to Pyongyang for the marathon. And they also reported that unification is not something that the North Korean people want to talk about anymore.

So do you believe that this is the end of the road for unification dreams? No, unification is process, and it could take much longer in a period. And Kim Jong-un can change. But the current form of unification would be very, very difficult because Kim Jong-un perceived inter-Korean relations as hostile relations. And Kim Jong-un came to conclusion that it doesn't matter what kind of regime comes in South Korea, whether it's a progressive or a conservative, they're all interested in changing regime in North Korea.

Therefore, there's no reason for us to engage with South Korea. And also, if you look at all the evidences, North Korea has given up its old strategy of United Front. That means what? United Front strategy means what? Just creating underground support base in South Korea. And when opportunity comes, then they will help to change regime in South Korea, so that North Korea can communize South Korea. But North Korea get rid of its Department of United Front within

Korea Workers' Party. And also North Korea eliminated all the agencies dealing with inter-Korean relations. That means what North Korea has formally declared the end of United Front strategy. When you say unification is a process, in your mind, could this be a process that lasts hundreds of years? No, it all depends on how you define unification. It could mean one nation, one state, one government, one regime, but they can be done either through unification

by absorption under South Korean initiative or a communization of the Korean Peninsula under North Korean leadership. But it is practically impossible. Then other options like coming up with a federation or low level of confederation, which means confederation, which North Korea proposed, or it can take form of so-called

North-South Union of States, like a European Union. I remember we talked about this six years ago on the very same podcast that you sort of likened to an idea of the European Union. I remember we talked about this six years ago on the very same podcast that you sort of likened it to an idea of the European Union. But I wonder if since the two systems of the two Koreas, the two governments and even their constitutions are so antithetical to each other that even in a confederation or a European Union, wouldn't the two systems be trying to undermine each other either overtly or covertly?

No, not necessarily. Therefore, when Kim Jong-un declared the inter-Korean relation as hostile and confrontational relation, that means what? North Korea thinks that it is a threat to South Korea. And what North Korea is saying is this, okay, we are now two separate states. Let us abide by international law. What is international law?

International law stipulate that all the state respect mutual sovereignty and territoriality and to not engage in an interfere with domestic political affairs. Therefore, what Kim Jong-un is sending message to South is very simple. Okay, respect our territory, our sovereignty, and do not interfere with our internal affairs.

Maybe if South Korea honor what Kim Jong-un want, there could be beginning of a new inter-Korean relations. But the problem is I never see Kim Jong-un saying the other side of that. I mean, he does often say, respect us, respect our sovereignty, respect, you know, don't try to interfere in our politics. But I don't really hear him saying, and I will respect your sovereignty. I will not fire missiles into the East Sea without warning you. I will not, you know, fly trash balloons into South Korea. He doesn't say that the converse of that.

It is conditional. Therefore, who studied it is really chicken and egg question. Therefore, North Korea has been saying that, oh, United States deployed in its strategic weapons in South Korea, then we show our will to deterrence by test launching ballistic missiles and cruise missiles. And ROKUS engage in its routine combined forces in training and exercise, and North Korea responding in kind. South Korea allowed our North Korean defectors to send a propaganda leaflet in North Korea, then North Korea responded.

Therefore, you've got to look into interactive dimension. It's not one sided game. That's true, but what I'm saying is that the language from Kim Jong-un and from his sister and from North Korea tends to come more in the ways of threats rather than if you respect us, we'll respect you. No, North Korea think in that way. They always feel kinds of threat coming from South Korea.

In other words, it is really very important for us to have some kind of strategic empathy on North Korea, without which we cannot... Strategic empathy. Yeah. We cannot find common ground for reconciliation and further dialogue. Therefore, it is one-sided view as its fundamental limit. Okay, this episode is coming out around the time of the election, the June 3rd sudden elections for a new president. What is your honest expectation for Lee Jae-myeong's approach to North Korea if

he becomes president? Yeah, his primary goal is how to ensure peace in the Korean Peninsula, okay? Therefore, peace will be his primary emphasis, okay? I don't know how he'll try to come up with it, but in order to achieve peace, then he'll be paying a lot of attention to preventive diplomacy. And I still do not know how he's going to engage

through the preventive diplomacy. And also, he'll be trying to pursue somewhat more balanced diplomacy. He will honor ROK-US alliance and ROK-US-Japan trilateral cooperation, but at the same time, he wanted to maintain good relations with Russia and China, so that we can manage stability, peace on the Korean Peninsula.

He was as mayor, sorry, as governor of Gyeonggi Province, he was very pro-engagement. Sometimes he even styled himself as being more pro-engagement than President Moon Jae-in at the time and was looking at ways of doing economic engagement region to region. But in the last year and now that he's campaigning, he doesn't talk so much about North Korea or engagement. What do you think has changed and should we be worried about that? Practically it is impossible

to engage with North Korea economically. And also he was trying to engage with North Korea through economic cooperation. Now he's now legally charged by the prosecutor's office. Now, he and his former deputy governor are going through the legal process. Therefore, he's not in the position to raise that issue. Okay. So, and if he does become elected, that might change, do you think?

No, but we have an international sanction regime and America is pursuing bylaw in a sanction on North Korea and therefore over international legal and institutional environment is not favorable his pursuit of in the economic engagement with North Korea. Yeah well and that actually brings up the question that in this political climate also where inter-Korean engagement is not really a vote-winner is there much space for a president to re-engage Pyongyang diplomatically or in other ways? It will be very tough. For example, President Lee Jae Myung raises issues of constitutional

amendment regarding Article 3 of the Constitution. Just remind us, what does Article 3 say? That stipulate that the territory of Republic of Korea include the entire Korean Peninsula and it adjunct in the islands. Therefore, North Korea has shown enormous grievances about this Article 3 of our Constitution. Although, to be fair, the Constitution of both Koreas claim sovereignty over the entire Korean peninsula, don't they? North Korean constitution does not make it very clear, but our constitution is very clear in Article 3.

Okay, I can't argue with that. I need to go and check the DPRK constitution to be sure about that. But when you say it's not clear, what do you mean? Curious to hear the rest? What do you mean? podcast player by accessing the Private Podcast Feed. For more detailed instructions, please see the step-by-step guide on the NK News website at nknews.org slash private dash feed.