North Korea News Podcast by NK News - North Korea improves a copycat US drone, and the DPRK’s evolving role in Ukraine

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

North Korea is testing a larger version of its state-of-the-art reconnaissance drone, according to exclusive NK Pro analysis, showing that it is continuing to copy U.S. designs. NK News Data Correspondent Anton Sokolin joins the podcast to discuss the advantages of introducing the new unmanned aerial vehicle with a 40-meter wingspan, as well as the […]

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as well as much, much more. To find the best fit for you, just head to signup.careerpro.org and become a member today. Hello listeners and welcome to the NK News podcast. I'm your host, Jaco Sweatshirt, and this episode was recorded in the NK News studio on Tuesday, the 25th of February, 2025. I'm joined in the NK News studio on Tuesday the 25th of February 2025. I'm joined in the studio by Anton Sokolin. Anton, welcome back. Hey, Jack, I've been a long time.

It has ended. Yesterday was the third anniversary of the Russian war on Ukraine. And so we've got some related stories that bring in North Korea to talk about. Sure. But let's talk about that one a bit later. First, let's start with something one a bit later. First let's start with something closer to the peninsula and actually something from North Korea itself. First of, to just kick off this kind of this conversation, I would like

to start with a story by Collins Verko, a fantastic find about this new drone that North Korea is apparently building. It's not ready yet. Well we will see soon but for now it was spotted in one of the hangars in the Panheung airbase. It's an airbase located north of Pyongyang. It's like yeah northeast of, northwest of Pyongyang. So this drone is a very interesting one because it's similar to the one that they showed like in 2023, which looks like a set, it's called Set Pearl 4. So which it translates as what? Morning Star or Venus. Yeah, you can, you can call it like that. And but with a wingspan. And the original one, the

Ceper-4 that they showed, is basically a replica or it's very closely mimicking the US drone, RQ-4A Global Hawk. Global Hawk. Yeah, so what Colin noticed is that this particular drone has a larger wingspan and the increase in the wind span kind of correlates with the new modification of global hawk that the US has made recently from so it was RQ4A now it's 4B and the difference is that the new drone that has a larger payload so it can carry more stuff but its range has shrunk a little bit so its range is now like 800 miles shorter than it used to be. So a shorter range but larger payload. What kind of payloads do these

sorts of drones normally carry? Are we talking bombs? No it's a recon drone so I assume it's supposed to carry all kinds of electronics to radars and all kinds of detection electronics devices to carry out these reconnaissance activities. But we're not talking about combat activities, so I don't think it's that. We have seen only a few videos with the previous modification of this drone released by North Korea and there are not so many details. As far as I understand these drones are guided by satellites usually so it requires certain assistance in guiding these drones because if you know what the Global Hawk looks like, it has like this big kind of bulging. The bulbous head.

Yeah, bulbous head, like a dome. And that is where all the electronics are supposed to be. And that's supposed to be hooked up to a satellite that will guide it. Well, we know now that North Korea doesn't have that many satellites. There's only one right now spinning around the Earth. And we are not really sure how it works, There is only one right now spinning around the Earth.

And we are not really sure how it works, but I'm sure with certain assistance of China, commercial satellites in China, for example, or maybe other satellites, or maybe with Russia's help it's possible to fully deploy it. But we will see. For now it's a bit of a mystery there. So to come back to how it's controlled, you say it's controlled by satellite. Is that something that can be jammed or messed with or is that a secure channel? I mean, I'm just thinking of the drones we see on the battlefield in Ukraine.

There's a lot of jamming going on there. I wonder how it is with this particular type of drone. Right. I suppose this one, I'm not a drone expert, but I think this drone is a bit of a different category of drones. So those FPV drones that we are seeing, first-person view drones, we see in Ukraine, those are flying relatively low in their... And it's often run by someone on the ground with a remote control. Remote control or a game controller, right? Usually it's that actually they use those for PS5 or Xbox consoles so it's a bit of a different weight category and I suppose it requires

more sophisticated controlling mechanism or devices in place rather than just an operator sitting with a gamepad. Yeah okay so this is probably not not that easy to to mess with and okay well done Colin on finding that one there Have we seen the previous North Korean version of this type of drone actually in flight? I know we've seen in the parade. We've seen them mounted, you know on the back of trucks and on display But ever actually are there videos of them flying? I think if memory serves I think there is a video of them flying. But the videos are like promo videos, right? So we don't know whether it was guided, it was not guided,

whether it was deployed actually. We saw them flying, gliding, of course, over, I think, yeah, Pyongyang during some events. And of course, in KCTV TV like short clips from like they but they look just like promotional videos too soon to tell probably something to keep an eye out on okay where would you like to go next so since you mentioned that it was the third anniversary of the war in Ukraine I just occurred to me it's almost as long as the Korean War 50 50 to 53. Oh, wow, right. It's three years. We're getting close.

Getting close. Well, hopefully it won't be as long as the Korean War. So yeah, there is a whole bunch of developments on the Ukrainian front. Ukraine itself marked the third anniversary of the conflict by kicking off several press conferences where several key individuals like officials in charge of Ukrainian military and foreign policy spoke.

One of them was, for example, the head of Ukrainian military intelligence, Kirill Budanov. Budanov, okay. I was wondering how to pronounce that. Yeah, yeah, that's pronounced like that, I suppose. And he spoke about several things, several developments. Essentially, by now what we know is that about 4,000 North Korean soldiers were killed or wounded. That is a lot. Yeah, 4,000. It's like one in three, right? Or more than one in three.

Yes, it's a one-third of the total 12,000 strong contingent, right? But he said that 8,000 are still pretty much active, and they're expecting some reinforcements soon. They haven't arrived yet, but they're expecting. But I think the major focus for Ukraine is not really about the manpower, it's about artillery systems that North Korea transfers to Russia. Because of these bombardments, not only of military targets, but also of cities and power stations and apartment blocks and things. Yeah, of course it's artillery, right?

You can use it for a whole variety of purposes. And for them it's a big concern right now. And what he mentioned is that... Mr. Budanov. Mr. Budanov, yes. He basically confirmed his previous statements that he made in interviews with various outlets that North Korea has transferred about 120, 170-millimeter Koksan self-propelled guns. It's pretty... Like a kind of howitzer.

It's a very formidable weapon. It's a howitzer. Yeah, propelled gun. We stick to this terminology, it's a self-propelled gun. Okay. I'm not a military expert, but I hear it from knowledgeable people that there is a certain difference and I kind of rely on them. So I try to stick to that. But essentially, as far as I understand, there is not much. So it's a massive gun on a wheeled vehicle with its own engine that can move around. Exactly. And these Coxon artillery systems, they're very formidable weapons because what they can do is that they can fire pretty much, they can sustain very fast pace of fire.

And their shells, their ammo can reach very far distance, like up to 60 kilometers or something. It's really a lot. There is one major problem with the deployment of them is that Russia doesn't have the caliber, 170 millimeter. Caliber is not really used in Russia. The design of the artillery system is very similar to the Russian Pion system, but the caliber is different. And you can't use the different caliber in the,

you know, that just one signature in a barrel. No, no, no, of course you can't. And so it means that there is also provisions of ammunition as well. And both Budanov said, when North Korea supplies those systems, it doesn't only send the gun itself. It also sends North Korean personnel that will...

To the training. Yes, first of all, to maintain the system. Second, to transfer the knowledge on how to use this thing. And now we are seeing reports, different media reports that these coxswain systems, they already reached the front lines. There were several videos purporting to show those coxswains in Donbas. And then we saw a video of how Ukrainian military unit hit one of them. Right.

I saw that. In the Luhansk region, actually. Right. Which is the occupied territory of Ukraine. Yes. I mean, Russian occupied territory of Ukraine. Yes, it's Donbas in the Luhansk region actually. Right, which is the occupied territory of Ukraine. Yes. Russian occupied territory of Ukraine. Yes, it's Donbas. It's not Kursk, so not to confuse.

It's a totally different direction. It's a... Kursk is a bit up north and Luhansk is down south in Donbas. So yeah, so we saw videos of how they targeted them. So that was one thing. Is this the first time we've seen one of these North Korean self-propelled guns being blown up? Exactly. And actually, it's the first time we've seen it deployed on the theater of war.

And the other thing he mentioned is the other artillery system. I kind of put them all together as artillery systems, but there is a sense, of course, there is a difference between them. I'm talking about multiple launch rocket systems. Essentially, it's a truck with multiple rockets mounted on top of it, and that's what it is. North Korea has a lot of them. And they have a lot of them, and apparently they also supplied about 120 of those machines to Russia. We haven't seen them being used yet. That's a bit of a question.

We know that they must have reached the front lines by now because there were multiple videos posted on social media showing something that looked like those systems. On Russian social media. On Russian social media, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they were delivered by rail and it's very hard to hide this kind of activity So at some point someone will see something and that kind of leaked to the public domain

What would be a reason why they're not being used yet? Oh, well, or maybe they are being used it because they also have a pretty good range It's also about 60 kilometers. And of course course you can hide them pretty much far back. So we just can't see them. I don't know. That's my guess. Maybe they are already there. Maybe they haven't started using them. Maybe they're saving them up. I honestly don't know. But that's one of the developments and it remains a big concern. Of course, when we're talking about this artillery system, that means that ammunitions are also coming in through and according to Budanov 50% of all Russia's ammunition

needs are covered by North Korea. Now this is a claim I saw reported in the media being widely reported that's a big claim right? Well it is but yeah it's at the same time which let me explain it makes it sound a little bit as a stretch because at the same time, he himself said that Russia is ramping up its own domestic indigenous production of ammunition. So it's very hard, I would say, to gauge the ratio precisely.

Maybe because when we hear the statements, of course, I always try to remind our listeners, our readers, that we need to treat them with a grain of salt because it could be also a figure of speech. Like figuratively speaking, half of whatever munitions are covered by North Korea. And we've seen similar claims, for example, by Vladimir Zelensky, who said that Ukraine completely destroyed all the entire North Korean contingent in Kursk. Well, we now know that it was only 4,000 people out of 12,000. What he probably meant is just that they destroyed whatever

forces that were there, they did destroy them, but they didn't destroy the entire force there. So it's a bit confusing. So these kinds of statements are always, we should treat them with caution. And yeah. But it would be safe to say, or temperate to say, that a large proportion of Russian frontline artillery needs are being met by North Korea. That's right.

And there is more to come, because Budanov said that North Korea is preparing to send a new batch of actual ballistic missiles, the K-23s. Okay, so this is not artillery, this is ballistic missiles. It's ballistic missiles. They have already, according to him, they supplied already about 150 and another batch of 150. Sometimes he gives this figure of 148, I just rounded to 150, is about to arrive soon. What he noticed, and that was also reported widely in the media, that their accuracy of these missiles has improved since the first time they appeared on the front lines. I think it was either late 2023 or the early, just the beginning of 2024. I think the

first strike was on New Year's actually actually. So it was around that time. And since then, apparently, these missiles have improved a lot. He attributed the improvement to the help of Russian engineers. OK. I've got one last question because we don't have a lot of time. But I understand that there was a time there recently when North Koreans were withdrawn from the battlefield, they're back in, and they're doing things a bit differently now? That's right, yes. That's a very good question.

So what we are hearing from Ukrainian soldiers fighting actually in Kursk is that North Koreans have changed their tactics a little bit, they are adapting, and that was actually kind of predicted by many experts that, well, give them some time, they time they're gonna learn and they're learning So what they're what the Ukrainians are saying is that North Korean soldiers? would probably before just stand up and walk in Lord like in large numbers across the snowfields and Try to take over the Ukrainian position by senior numbers. So we call a meat assault Yeah, they call them meat assault in kids. They do that and It's what we call a meat assault. Yeah, they call them meat assault.

They do that. And it's not funny. But now we are seeing that they are operating in smaller units, smaller numbers, kind of replicating what the Russian experience of how things are done. But at the same time, they're still vulnerable to drone attacks, even though they're learning. They're learning how to tackle them. We've seen those reports on how they do it. Usually groups of three, one draws the attention, the two are trying to tackle it down. So of course there is that, but still the vulnerability

exists. So Ukrainian forces are spotting that too, but there is definitely some visible improvements. We will see how it factors into the actual situation on the battlefield, whether it's going to help Russia, whether it's going to be to Ukrainian advantage that these forces are learning not so fast as it was taught before. Well, we will see. Maybe they will pick up the speed of their learning and they will apply their know-how somehow to the battlefield. I don't know.

Great answer. Thank you very much for your excellent reporting, Anton. And thanks again for coming on the NK News podcast. Always a pleasure. Thank you. In the intricate world of Korean affairs, tailored intelligence makes all the difference. Korea risk groups consulting services offer specialized actionable intelligence designed to guide your career related decisions. We provide bespoke consulting services that cater to your unique challenges and goals. From policy analysis to market entry strategies, we bring clarity to complexity. Transform uncertainty into opportunity and visit KoreaPro.com solutions today.

Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of our podcast episode for today. Our thanks go to Brian Betts and Alana Hill for facilitating this episode and to our post-recording producer genius, Gabby Magnuson, who cuts out all the extraneous noises, awkward silences, bodily functions and fixes the audio levels. Thank you and listen again next time.