North Korea News Podcast by NK News - Park Hyangsu: Why North Korea’s unification rejection shocked Koreans in Japan

Episode Date: July 11, 2024

Park Hyangsu, who was born and raised in Japan in a pro-DPRK enclave of ethnic Koreans, joins the podcast for a second time to discuss how this group has reacted to Kim Jong Un’s decision to abandon peaceful reunification with South Korea. She talks about the shock of the initial announcement for members of Chongryon, […]

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most closely watched regions in the world. Don't wait, spaces are filling fast. Hello podcast listeners. Welcome to the NK News Podcast. I'm your host, Jacos Wetzel, and today's interview is recorded on Monday, June 17, 2024. Almost exactly two years ago, I spoke with today's guest, Ms. Park Hyungsu, a woman who was born and raised in Japan in the Zainichi enclave of ethnic Koreans who are pro North Korea, the Chosun Soran or the Chosun Chongnyeon.

And I invited Ms. Park back on the show to tell us more about what is happening in the Korean community in Japan in the wake of Kim Jong-un's announcement last December that he is no longer interested in peaceful unification with South Korea. So welcome back on the show, Hyungsu. Hi, Jekko. Thank you for having me. Well, thanks for giving me some of your time again today. Remind our listeners what Cheongryun or Joseon Soren is and what it does. Okay, Joseon Cheongryun or Cheongryun is an organization.

The name is the General Association of Korean Residents in Japan. And there is two organizations. After World War II, the division of the Korean Peninsula led to the division of among the Zainichi community too. So there is some pro-North Korean organization, which is called Chongryun and Min-dan, which is pro-South Korean organization. And Chung Ryon had superior power than Min Dan, especially in 60s, 70s until mid 80s. And 70% of Zainichi Koreans supported and belonged to Chung Ryong. Okay, and for a long time,

Chung Ryon financially supported North Korea sending money over and other items, right? So it was very supportive of the North Korean government. Sure. And of course, Kim Il-sung from early stage, like 1952, Kim Il-sung called on the socialist movement in Japan to be coordinated to close contact with North Korea. So it was one of his plan, I think, and Cheongnyang prospered. And of course, North Korea. So it was one of his plan, I think, and Chongryun prospered. And of course, North Korea supported, especially Korean schools in Japan, which is organized and governed by

Chongryun. And that, the existence of schools, once there are more than 200 schools, and now it's 50 or so. And from kindergarten to university in Tokyo, one university in Tokyo, and now it's 50 or so and from kindergarten to university in Tokyo, one university in Tokyo and now the number of students is like 5,000 but it used to be 10 times. Wow. Yeah like 50,000. And you went to this school system as well. Yeah. At its largest how many members would you say Cheongryeong had? According to Japanese police, it's like 80,000. When was it at its largest stage? Was this in the 60s or the 70s? I think more than 70% of Chinese Koreans supported and belonged to Cheongryeong in 60s, 70s. Okay, so that was a very large number then.

Yeah. Okay, and today- It's shrinking and it's fading away. Right, so you recently visited Japan. What did you observe about the current state of Chongryun? Is it as powerful as before? No, it's uniting inwardly. It is facing many challenges in recent years,

especially declining membership and financial difficulties. Yeah, they are even, I heard that they are even operate managing the part of Korean school playground as a fee parking lot. Oh, so they can collect parking fees to keep the school going. And financial difficulties are serious. And also generational shifts. The younger generation are not interested in belonging to, you know, any organization.

And are they apolitical? Yeah, political. Or they are not interested in anymore. And, um, yeah, but they're still interested in anymore. But they're still resilient. Maintaining the presence despite various obstacles and uniting inwardly more, you know, the rigidly. How many members do you think Chongran has today then? I think it's less than,

even Japanese police said it's 80,000. Oh, is that number for now? A few years ago. But I think it's less than 50,000 or so. Less than 50,000 now? So back in the 1960s, would it have been more than 1 million members, do you think? Yeah, I think so.

So at its peak, it was more than a million, and now it's down to 50,000. There were 600,000 Chineseist Koreans in 60s, 70s, 80s and 80% of Zionist Koreans supported Chongryun. So that number would be more. Somewhere over 400,000. Yeah. Okay. So in December last year, Kim Jong-un announced that he was no longer interested in pursuing peaceful unification with South Korea. How has that changed Jong-Ryeon? They are mentally shocked, I think, first of all, because reunification was the ultimate

value to persuade people to support Jong-Ryeon. And that value was denied now. So I heard they are in the mental breakdown and confused. But I think in the end they will follow the guideline from the North Korea. And I heard from my personal source, Chongryun inquired Tongiljeonseonbu, which is the front for unification, which is governing Chongryun, that what are you gonna do? What do you want us to do from now on? They had no answer yet.

The North Korean government, United Front Department had no answer yet. Yes, I heard that. And even the name of Tongil Cheonsunbu changed. Did you hear that? No, tell me more. They changed it. Daejeok Jido-guk, it's enemy control department.

Oh. Yeah. And that name itself, it's all quite, you know, different, too different. Is that department still responsible for the Zionist Koreans in the Jongryun? I heard that. It changed sometimes, but it's still under... So even though the name is now the enemy control department, they're also controlling the Jongryun,

which is not really enemies because they're friends, right? Yeah. I have to make sure if they're still control Jongryun or not, but... Ah, you have to check that. Yeah, but Jongryun anyway inquired. Is there a sense among the inside the Chongryun today in Japan that this change in strategy by Kim Jong-un, is it something real? Is it fundamental? Or is it just for show? Is it just empty words? Chongryun did not announce, information to ordinary members,

including the students or, you know, the ordinary residents, but inside the top members, I mean, the leadership and members of working for headquarters were guided that, you know, it's a real and it's a right decision. So you have to follow that new guideline. And they also ordered employees of Cheongryun that they have to avoid the relationships and ties with any South Korean civic groups or any organizational, governmental organization.

So keep... What about you? I mean, you're a former Zainichi now living in South Korea. Do they tell people to avoid contact with you too? No, I just keep in touch with my friends. Personal relationship I just keeping. But do you think the leadership would warn people about you or people like you? They don't like me, I think, because they know that I founded a new NGO group and they're watching it and they don't like supporting North Korean defectors.

And there are, by the way, 200 North Korean defectors living in Japan and they call them a betrayer and they don't care about them at all. Okay, we're going to talk a little bit more about your NGO later on. Tell me more about what kind of messages coming out of the leadership. How are the Chongryon schools supposed to treat people with South Korean nationality? Okay, they ordered teachers at schools that don't to be exclusive, treat them the same as before because there are 70% of Korean school students have South Korean nationals now.

Oh, I see. So you mean they have a South Korean passport? Yes. But they attend the pro-North Korean Minjokakgyo schools? Yes. Why would they go to that school? Maybe their parents won and their ideology are different. But then why would they have South Korean nationality not, you know, North Korean nationality?

It's more convenient and they want, you know, teenagers these days in Japan really like K-pop, K-cultures and they want to visit South Korea and it's convenient and North Korean, it's not a passport, it's just a re-entry permission to having Joseon. Joseon, and it's too inconvenient. So yeah, just for convenience, they are changing their nationals to South Korea. So these young Zainichi Koreans

who are attending these schools, they're really caught between two worlds, aren't they? They're attending a pro-North Korean school, but they like South Korean K-pop and dramas. Yeah, right. So they're caught between the two Koreas. Yeah, but they never learn about the reality of South Korea. They don't know the the traditional South Korean songs or the reality of South Korea, they don't teach them. How does the leadership of Jong-un react to questions about unification policy or opinions about unification policy?

I think they will just follow the guidelines from the North and they will never change their attitudes. But at the moment you say there are no guidelines yet. So what's the leadership doing? But they ordered also that don't ask any questions about new guidelines and no opinions are welcomed. So they are keeping a silence and maybe inside the confusion is occurring I think and it will take some more time to fix everything because even in North Korea they are in Confusion, I think there they for example, they changed the name of Tongil station and just erase the Tongil the unification and also the The lyrics of the national song.

They changed the Samcheolli, right? Yeah. And I saw the North Korean soccer team. They visited Japan in March this year for pre-match for World Cup. And there were more than 3,000, or Jong-ryun cheering cheering groups squat there and they heard that the players song a national song in a different way they didn't say some Charlie yeah and maybe they didn't know about the change before yeah Wow I'm also curious other the maps of Korea that are shown in the the Minjok Hakurei

schools do they show this new border, this new two Koreas, or do they still show a united Korea in their maps? I'm not sure yet, but they haven't fixed it yet. Yeah, it will take time. There may be new song lyrics in the future as well, and new textbooks, I suppose. Maybe next year. Next year, okay. Yeah, please keep watching about that and let us know when you see the changes happening.

Okay. Do you expect any new change in activities or strategy from Chongryun in the future with these new guidelines? I think they will try to maintain their presence in a several way. For example, they are publishing the younger generation magazines like EO, EO means connect, connect EO and which is which looks like you know very young and sophisticated and eliminating political color and they're trying to collect support from the Japanese too and mainly from ethnic Japanese people? Yeah, ethnic Japanese supporters, for example, for Korean school program, there are the number of Japanese

people who support Korean school too. Financially? They think it's financially know they just fight together for the subsidiary from the governmental support. So why would ethnic Japanese support pro-North Korean children? Why would they do that? Are they socialist Japanese people? Yeah, partly, yes. And maybe they think the children have nothing to do with the North Korean regime and it's a discrimination against Korean children. And Chongryun is also appealing to United Nations that the Japanese government are eliminating Korean schools from supporting them.

So yeah, some Japanese agree with that idea that the schools should not be discriminated because it's the learning space for kids. And Chungkyun also publishing another magazine which is called New Generation, Sese-de. It's a monthly magazine and that's also eliminating all the political colors and just uniting psychologically together, emphasizing that kind of culture, their own culture. And I think it's a part of their new policy. Because nobody read Joseon Sinbo anymore.

It's too... Old-fashioned? Yeah, old-fashioned and not interesting. And they even published Joseon Sin or Chosun newspaper in two languages And the contents are different. Yes. Yes. The contents are different. There's not a direct translation from one to the other. It's actually different. You have to check all the time. Yeah, for example When they report about the graduation ceremony of Chosun University in Tokyo, they wrote in Korean that the student pledged the loyalty to the North Korea.

But they never wrote that in Japanese version. Yeah, I checked sometimes and I compared both, but it's different. Is the Japanese version of the Chosun Shinbo published for Japanese people to read? Is that why it's published? Yeah, partly because not all Koreans in Japan can read Korean, so it's published in Japanese. And maybe in Korean version, North Korean government will check the Korean version. So they don't check the Japanese version. That's interesting. These magazines you mentioned, E.R. and SeSede, New Generation, are they published only in Korean or in a mixture of Korean and Japanese?

Mostly in Japanese. Mostly in Japanese. So even though the names E.R. and SeSede are Korean names, most of the contents is Japanese language content. Yes. Because Zenichi Korean'sichi is now the fourth generation. And Japanese is their first language, of course. So I'm very curious, because the North Korean government is very concerned about purity, not only ethnic purity, but also cultural purity and language and things. So to what extent is the Korean language still used within the Zionist community to

communicate about big issues like politics and identity and things like that? In daily lives, they don't use Korean at all, almost at all. But in school, they emphasize to use only Koreans and maybe Jongryeong gathering and Jongryeong ceremony, they only use Korean. So they're forced to use only Koreans and maybe Jongryeong gathering and Jongryeong ceremony, they only use Korean. So they're forced to use Korean at school, but really they want to read Japanese. Yeah, it's easier for them. And all the teachers are Zainichi and they've never lived in Korea and their language is

different and students know that it's different from that language in K-drama and it's not the real, yeah. So do they feel that they're learning like a kind of a simplified Korean or a second class Korean? They call it a Zainichi style Korean language, which is different from both South and North Korea. But so, and so for more complicated topics like arts and literature and philosophy and politics, they go into Japanese?

Sure. I see. Okay. Well, let's also talk about something that you did while you were in Japan. You launched a new NGO called Free to Move or F2M. What's the goal of this NGO? Of course it's to promote the freedom and free return, especially of separated families in Japan. As you know there are 93,000 Zainichi returnees to North Korea during the Paradise on Earth project. From the 1950s to the 1980s. Yes. And we also wish to, you know, return of all Japanese abductees to North Korea.

Okay. So this is the main goal of your organization is to help or to advocate for the rights of North Koreans who used to live in Japan or their children who maybe have never been to Japan to be able to move to Japan. Yeah, and also to, you know, let people know about the real situation of North Korean human rights in Japan. Do you also want to encourage Chongryon members

to leave the organization, or is that not part of your mission? That's part of my mission. My goal is to, you know, persuade them to join together, to promote for the freedom of North Korean people, because if they turn their ideology, if they change their mind, their motivations is very deep and big, I think.

And my co-founder, Mr. Hon, was one of the Chong-Lion workers. Yeah, I think. And my co-founder, Mr. Hon, was one of the Chonglian workers. Yeah, for example. And your father was too, right? Yeah, yeah. Actually, your family story is very interesting. For listeners who didn't hear your previous interview, I would encourage them go back to episode 243,

where you can hear Hyeong-Soo talk about her father, her mother, her uncles, and, and the whole story about how they left a children. But I don't want to attack them directly, or I just don't want to criticize or preach or teach them that you are wrong. That doesn't work. I just want to share my experience and my, you know, knowledge and the testimonies I heard from the defectors in South Korea.

I've been working with them for 10 years and I just want to share and let them know. If they want, they can reach those information anytime. And it's their choice to change or not change. Yeah. Tell us more about your co-founder, Mr. Hong, who used to be part of the Chongryun leadership. Okay, he called himself as ideological defector. He's been working for Chongryun for 20 years and visited North Korea 20 times as a business trip. And he of course has his family and relatives in North Korea

who returned to North Korea during that Paradise on Earth project and he worked for Chongryun headquarters in Tokyo for 10 years as a head of social affairs department which is which deal with the compulsory conscription or comfort women issues and mainly the past history with Japan. And then he moved to Osaka and he was the chairman of the Korean Human Association, which also deal with the rights of Zainichi Koreans. So in total, he worked for Chongryun for 20 years. What made him become an ideological defector?

After 2002, Prime Minister Ko Izumi visited North Korea and Kim Jong-il acknowledged the abductees. Okay. Right? And that was a big, big shock to all Zionist Koreans, including Chongryun members, because Chongryun never, you know, admitted it. Yeah, denied.

And they forced the members and students of Korean school to give out, distribute the leaflets on the street. That is a lie, an absolute lie. So everybody believed that, you know, North Korea never did that. But it was exposed that, you know, they really did it. It was a big shock to Mr. Hong too. So he posted a message on the Chongryun website in the same year 2002, and calling for a reform criticizing the leadership of central Chongryun headquarters.

And he emphasized that Chongryun is facing a crisis of survival and we need to revise the relationship with our fatherland. That's what he said. And he collected the full-time employees, 30 members of full-time employees of Chong-Lyen, and submitted the opinion paper to Chung-ryun. And then Chung-ryun was so mad at him and he called, Chung-ryun called Mr. Hong as a betrayer. And they pointed out that there is somebody behind the scene. You know? And Chung-ryun also defamed Mr. Hong by posting a false article on its website and newspaper saying that he's trying to destroy Chung-Lyen in connection with Kuk Jong-Won.

The Korean National Intelligence Service of South Korea. Yes, it's terrible. He was so shocked and he was called a betrayer. So he decided to quit Chung-Lyen and he filed defamation lawsuit against Chung-Lion. It was the first time that Chung-Lion employee filed a case and he won the case in the end. Because he majored in the law. Oh, I see. Did they pay him any money? Yes.

They did? I don't know how much he got paid, but they paid alimony and he demanded to Chung-Liang to publish the apology advertisement. Wow. In the Joseon Shinbo? Yes, and they did because it's a law. It's an order from the law. So, yeah, it was a big experience for Chung-Liang too. So he was kind of a legend.

And that's why you are working with him to found this organization free to move. And you had a launch ceremony in Japan, what was it last month or? Yeah, last month, May 25th. That is the same day of Chongryon Foundation. Oh, okay. Now at the launch, did anybody from Chongryon attend your event? Yeah, I heard one Chongryon worker attended, but I didn't know him and I didn't see him but one of our members said that there is one person from Chongryon to watch but he was very quiet. Yeah. So he didn't disturb the the ceremony or the speeches. Okay. Now there have been Japanese activists and civic groups who have also advocated for North

Korean human rights and the freedom to move for a long time. Tell us about these groups. Yeah. I have been working with those groups for past 10 years as individually because I really wanted to help them and I was touched by their activities. How long have those groups been around? They founded the NGO in 1994, which was even earlier than most South Korean NGOs for North Korean human rights. Their name of NGO is the Group to Protect the Lives and Human Rights of North Korean returnees and Japanese spouses. And the reason why they started this kind of NGO so early

was that first they were once a believer of Marxism and they encouraged many friends, Zainichi friends, to move to North Korea to contribute the socialist construction. And they regret that. And they feel, you know, so sorry about that and kind of sense of guilt. And they say if they were a Zainichi Korean in that time, like sixties, they would also go to North Korea. Right. Yeah.

So they don't want, you know, they just want to support those people because they regret what they have done. Yeah. So these are ethnic Japanese, former Marxists who used to be in favor of the North Korean government, but now they regret it and they want to help North Korean returnees who went to North Korea or their children or their spouses to come back to Japan. Yes, and after they heard the testimonies

from defectors like Kang Chul-Hwan in early 1990s or early 2000, they were so shocked and they made up their mind that maybe they should do something for those returnees. And at that time, there was almost no interest about the reality of repatriation project, both in the international community, as well as in Japan and South Korea. So I think they were the first one who make, you know, loud voice about the right of returnees and I really

appreciate that. And another activist, it's a co-founder of Mr. Ogawa, there's Mr. Yamada. He is now called as a father of defectors in Osaka. He's taking care of more than 50 North Korean defectors residing in Osaka. He provides apartment, he provides the job. And I was so, that's amazing. Yeah. One of these former Marxists as well. Yes. He was also, yeah.

So the socialist activity and he was a professor of the university in Osaka, but now he retired and his wife is managing running a hospital in Osaka. So financially, his wife is supporting him. I see. Yeah, and Mr Yamada once detained in China for three weeks. He was trying to help Zainichi Japanese escape from North Korea to Japan. Yeah, he was helping to flee to Japanese school in Shanghai. And he was detained for three weeks and that was a big shock and big news. Yeah.

And tell us a bit more about Mr. Ogawa. What does he do? What's his role? He's now in his 80s. He's 84 or 85. So he can't do a lot now. So I heard last month, South Korean NGOs gathered and invited him to Korea and to celebrate

and to show him thanks about what he has done so far. Because he's been doing work for 30 years now. Yeah, and he can't do it anymore. And I felt very sad that he don't have anyone to continue his activities. He has done so much and he collected all the testimonies and so much materials and his activities are so precious, but no one to take over.

So that's another reason why I decided to join Mr. Hong as a member of Free To Move. So your organization is kind of the spiritual successor of these older movements that have been around for 30 years. Yes, and maybe there are a lot to do. They have all paperwork of, you know, collecting materials and testimonies, and maybe we need to digitalize them. Yeah, that's very important, digitalizing. And they can't do those social media stuff, so we have to, you know, help. At the moment, do you have a lot of volunteers in Japan who are helping you?

Not a lot. Not a lot, okay. In Japan, the social interest is almost toward the Japanese opportunities, including Japanese government support. So people have no interest in universal human rights issues in North Korea. They're almost only interested in Japanese objecti issue. Of course, that is very important, but I hope the cause is the same, right?

The roots of the sadness, the tragedy is the same. So I hope many Japanese can work together for the human rights issues in North Korea. Have you found any young Zainichi Koreans who are former members of Jong-ryun who can help you? Not many, very few, a couple of people, yeah. But I believe there will be more. You mean as more and more people leave Chong-lian

because of the confusion of the new policy? Yeah, and also there is no trust anymore about the leadership of Chong-lian, and they have no money, no students at Korean school, and no real estate. They are losing their influence and their power, I think. But before they fade away, I think they once have to officially apologize about what they have done in the past, you know, I think Chongryun did some role, the positive role in Japanese society, protect especially the right of Zainichi Koreans and fight against the discrimination. And I think

there is some positive aspects of Chongryun, but there are a lot more, you know, wrongdoings of Chongryun. For example, they never admit that the Paradise on Earth project was a wrong thing. I was taught at Korean school that that was one of the greatest achievement that Chung-Liang did, sending all those Zionist Koreans to North Korea and they are living very happily. And they never help or support North Korean defectors now.

They call them a betrayer. And also they even sent more than 200 Korean students to as birthday gifts to Kim Il-sung when Kim Il-sung became 60 years old. Yeah, that's a big tragedy. Yang Yong-hee's brother, you know Yang Yong-hee? Oh, right, the film director. She has two brothers who went, or three brothers,

who went to North Korea? Three brothers. Yeah, and one of her brothers were sent as a birthday gift to Kim Il-sung when he became 60 years old. Yeah, that's a big crime, I think, but they never apologized. And I think they should officially once apologize

as an organization. Isn't it likely that the Chong-Jon might just disappear or fade away after 10 or 20 years as the numbers get smaller and smaller and the amount of money also gets smaller and smaller? Yes, I hope so. Yeah, they will, but I don't know, they are still very resilient and they have very

tight inward unity and their own culture and the core members are trying so hard to maintain their presence. So I don't know, maybe gradually the NGO groups like us can influence them to change their mind. Yeah, but it takes time. You're based here in South Korea. You have a family here in South Korea. So what can you do from here to, you know, for your NGO which is mainly based in Japan? Okay, I was asked to join this NGO because I am living in Seoul. Ah.

Because they want to build a network, a close network with NGOs in South Korea. And it's been only one month we have found it, but we have done a lot with South Korean NGOs. Now the Amnesty is doing some symposium in Japan. Amnesty International? Yes, and we are the counterpart. We are helping interpreting or, you know, collecting people or PR and South Korean NGOs always needed a counterpart in Japan, but the conventional existing NGOs, they can't speak Korean or English or no social media, you know, so it was kind of hard to work with them. So I think I can be a bridge between South Korean NGOs and in Japan. Which of which South Korean NGOs are your

strong alliance partners? A lot. Yeah, Shimin Yona, the alliance for you know, that book on in contention in your name. I don't know, I don't remember the English name of that one. Citizens Alliance for North Korea. Yeah, and Tongil Academy. And also the member of Tongilbu came to congratulate to our founding ceremony and also other NGO members also sent congratulatory messages. So you had somebody there from the South Korean Ministry of Unification.

Yes. So they're also interested in your work, are they? Yeah, they're very interested in. Yeah. Well, do you have a website now? Yes, but only in Japanese. We're under construction. All right.

So people who can read Japanese, where can they find your website? I gave you my address, the free2move.xyz. Free2move.xyz, okay, and it's all in Japanese at the moment. Now, what about on social media? Are you active on social media? Not very active now. We're preparing for it, too many things to do, I'm so busy, and we're almost, you know, volunteers.

I have nine boarding members now. And you know, Jiro Ishimaru from Asia Press. Sure, he's very famous. Yeah, he is. He's been working for North Korean Human Rights for what, also 30 years, I think. Yeah, yes, and he's advisor. And he actually persuaded Mr.

Hong to found the NGO because he said it's time for Zainichi ourselves to start and to speak loud because it's been a long time and you can now speak out. That's how Mr. Hong started. Mr. Hong started. Mr. Hong was helping Asia Press, Ishimaru-san, yeah, behind so far. But he made up his mind that, you know,

be a, to find, to found, yeah. Okay, wow. And now, you're not yet on social media, but you told me that there are some YouTubers in Japan who are, they were students that are pro North Korea Minjok school and they talk about their educational experiences. Are they, this is Joseph Kim and Park Yusong, their videos, are they pro North Korea or are they critical of North Korea?

Critical. Ah. Yeah. But they have a background of coming from North Korea or pro-North Korean groups? Yes, they are very influential and like Joseph Kim, Kim Yo-sep or Joseph Kim in English, he is a North Korean defector. So he actually escaped from North Korea to Japan? Yes, no, no, no, to South Korea first and he got a working visa and he's working in Japan.

Yeah, so he's not a descendant of Zainichi returnee. So he's, he, he was once in Gotsebi in North Korea. Yeah. He a street kid basically in North Korea. Yeah. And he's telling on his channel that, you know, his life story, very in fluent Japanese, very quietly. story, very fluent Japanese, very quietly.

And he has now more than 150,000 followers in Japan. It's all Japanese language, okay, wow. All Japanese, and they are supporting him, they're encouraging him to be happy. How long has he been living in Japan? I think it's been more than five years or so. Very unusual story, right? He's born in North Korea to North Korean parents. He escaped to South Korea.

Then he got a working visa to go and live in Japan. And that's where he's found happiness and success. Yeah, and he got married to North Korea and defectors in Japan. Wow. Yeah, and there are big fans of him and he sometimes appears on TV shows. Really? Yeah. And he, you know, tell people about how hard it was to live in North Korea and it's gaining a lot of interest

and I think he's very influential. So people can find his YouTube channel at the address Josephu Kim so YOSEFU-Kim on YouTube. He also published his book in Japanese Yeah, he's doing very well. Yeah, and what about Park Yoo-sun? Mm-hmm Park Yoo-sun is 27 years old, a Korean school student, a Korean school graduate Ah, so he went to one of the same schools that you went to. Yes, yes. In Kobe. Yes, I've never met him, but he's very famous.

And he once was an entertainer, belonged to Yoshimoto. Yoshimoto is a Japanese entertaining company. Oh, I see. After graduating from Korean school, and he talked about his experience in Korean school and that was a kind of hit but he decided to quit the company and he decided to run his own YouTube channel and social media and now he's gaining you know great attentions and he has more than 100,000 followers and all Japanese.

His contents is just, he's not attacking Korean school, not attacking Korean school students, but he's just telling his personal story, personal experience at Korean school, and that's interesting. People can find that at p-a-k-u underscore y-u-s-o-n, paku, u-son. For example, he explains why he is not going to send his kids in the future to Korean school. The reason is the Korean school teachers

have no teacher's license. They only graduated from all Cheongnyong schools, and he was not satisfied with the contents of education. He didn't know why he had to memorize all the birth dates of Kim's family. And also he emphasized that after he went to the Japanese university, he first knew that there was some hijacking of Korean Air,

which occurred in 1987. He was told that is a lie, but that was true. Well, that was the bombing of the Korean Airplane. Yeah, yeah. Yes, bombing of Korean Airplane, yes. And also he never knew that Japanese opportunities existed. That was a lie, that was, that's how he was told, but he was shocked that, you know,

he was taught so many he was shocked that, you know, he was taught so many times about the comfort women and the compulsory libel during the Japan's rule, but he never ever taught about Japanese object issues or, you know, the Korean air bombing or that, that was a big shock for him. Have you contacted him and asked him to work with your organization, Free To Move? One of my members are going to contact him. Yeah, because if he has 100,000 plus YouTube followers, that would be a great addition to your group. I think these flow, these movement of younger generation and we have variety of platform now to tell people

our thoughts and experience and it will gradually change Chongryon too. What about pro Chongryon YouTube channels or TikTokers or Instagramers? Do they exist as well? Yeah, they do, but they are not influential. They don't have many viewers? Yeah, and Chosun Hakkyo Chongryun school also has their own Twitter. X. Now again, those Twitter and YouTube accounts, are they mostly in Japanese language? Yes, mostly in Japanese.

Because they are collecting Japanese supporters. Okay, so even though they are pro-North Korea, they're still doing it mainly in the Japanese language. Very interesting. Okay, now finally, last year you were interviewed for a short documentary by South China Morning Post called North Korea's Return to Paradise Nightmare. People can find that on YouTube. It's about 19 minutes long. And you told about your uncles and your own visit to see them in North Korea. What kind of reactions did you get from that,

from people who watched that documentary? I was so shocked that more than I expected, there are more than a million viewers and a thousand of warm comments about my family story. I never expected that. I thought it's a very small story of one family and it's a long time ago and there's no hope that I can save them.

So I didn't know why South China Morning Post wanted to interview me. Oh, by the way, it's thanks to you. The director maybe listened to our podcast. Ah, from two years ago. Yes, and he contacted me, and thank you, Jack. Oh, wow, happy to help. And he didn't know anything

about Repatriation Project before, so he studied so hard, and it took almost more than six years for him to edit and study and research. And I thank Jonathan Bitt, the director, and he made the beautiful documentary documentary and it was very moving. And I was encouraged and touched by so many nice and warm comments all over the world, all in English, and I never expected that. And wow.

And that helped you to decide to organize this NGO, Free to Move? Yeah, and encouraged me a lot. Oh, this kind of story can move people. Right. Yeah, not just the statistics, not just those historical facts and materials, but just a small family story can move.

Right. Yeah, and impact people. And yeah. Well, that's something that Yang Yonghee discovered as well with her documentaries, right? can move and impact people. Well, that's something that Yang Yonghee discovered as well with her documentaries, right? That those stories of people, families torn apart that can really move people's hearts. Was she there at the launch of your organization? No, no, no, no. I know her. I met her once, but I don't think she will attend this kind of NGO activities. She just wants to continue to make a movie telling her family story.

Okay, well, we wish you all the best with your organization. We hope that it helps people both in Japan and in North Korea and wherever else they are. Thank you once again for coming back on the NK News Podcast, Park Hyungsoo. Thank you for having me. Welcome to a new realm of insights into the Korean Peninsula. At Korea Risk Group, we delve deep into the complexities of North and South Korea, offering bespoke analyses that empower decision makers. Whether you're in government, business or academia,

our tailored solutions provide clarity in an opaque region. Let our team guide your strategy with data-driven insights and on-the-ground intelligence. Step into a world of informed decision making and visit careerriskgroup.com today. Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of our podcast episode for today. Our thanks go to Brian Betts and Alana Hill for facilitating this episode and to our post-recording producer genius, Gabby Magnuson, who cuts out all the extraneous noises, awkward silences, on the next video.