North Korea News Podcast by NK News - The optics of Kim Jong Un’s appearance at China’s military parade

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un made his appearance at a large-scale multilateral event on Wednesday, standing shoulder to shoulder with Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin at China’s Victory Day parade in Beijing. But was this just optics, or did it mark a deeper realignment of global power blocs? NK News Lead Correspondent Shreyas Reddy […]

Navigating the dynamics of the Korean Peninsula requires more than just information. It demands insight. Career Risk Group offers strategic consulting that cuts through the noise. Our experts provide in-depth analysis, risk assessments and bespoke reports, all tailored to your specific needs. Whether you're exploring new opportunities or managing existing challenges, our insights can be your compass. To learn more about how we can help you make informed strategic decisions, visit careerrisk.com slash solutions today.

Hello, listeners, and welcome to the NK News podcast. I'm your host, Jacko Zwitz. And today it is Thursday, the 4th of September. I'm joined here in the studio by my colleague Shraeus Redis. Shreyes, welcome back. Hello, Jacko. Thanks for having me. After yesterday's parade and other celebrations in Beijing,

have we today woken up in a new world, the world of Krunk? Oh, well, I think at this point, more like a continuation of the old world, what we were already heading to. But, you know, for a while there, for a few months, people have been saying, well, this China, Russia, North Korea alignment, it's, it's opportunistic, it's for the moment, it's mainly optics. Yesterday we saw, you know, in all those leaders, 20 or 30 Asia-Pacific leaders, they're up on that roster, they're in the middle, and walking together to that rostrum,

Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, and Kim Jong-un on either side of him, tell us about it. Yeah, I think I would say there's a bit of both. There's a lot of it is still about optics, of course, but at the same, and it sends a particular message. Yeah, nothing more optic than a parade. Absolutely. But there's also perhaps some substance to it. And I think, point of comparison, let's go back to China's Victory Day Parade,

a 70th anniversary victory day parade back in 2015. At that time, it was there. Exactly. And she was occupying the same position that Kim Jong-un did. yesterday as essentially the third most important person after Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin and then her. As back then, Kim Jong-un did not attend. Instead, they sent Cheriung He, a very senior official certainly, but he is not a world leader. This time, the roles were reversed. South Korea, the president, did not choose to attend, perhaps mindful of the optics, how the US would perceive

it if he went. Instead, they sent the Speaker of the National Assembly, Yuan Shik. And so this time, he was the one who was seated far away from the central group because he's not a world leader. He's a senior official, but not quite there. Now, look, in terms of optics, obviously this is a great win for Xi Jinping. But for Kim, there must be, for Kim Drummond, there must be some sort of a balancing act. They're going, okay, I go there and I'm to the right of or to the left of Xi Jinping, whatever the case may be. But I'm only one of 20. I'm not the main guy. I don't have a speaking role.

Whereas normally when he comes out in Pyongyang, he's the main guy. He's the center of attention. So there has to be some sort of balancing here. And I'm not sure of optics is enough to cut it for Kim. Plus, he's also had those, what, six years of not traveling to China, some years of not meeting with Xi Jinping. Tell us a bit about that. Yeah, and I think that for many months in our North Korea Watcher community,

there's been a lot of talk. Is he going to go? Is he not going to go? Was he even invited? We weren't even sure. Exactly. The logic from our side, for many people, was this man has only ever really gone to bilateral summits.

He's had one trilateral, but even there. he was the star of the show. Is he really going to be happy going there and playing second fiddle to Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, and having so many others around him? Yeah. And for the longest time, the answer seemed like, you know, maybe he could, but it's not something

that would fit his patterns. But he went ahead and did it this time. So the big question is, what has changed? And what's he getting out of it? Exactly. And a lot of it is fundamentally about those political alignments, on the global geopolitical

stage. We've got increasingly Russia, China and North Korea and other countries positioning themselves as essentially part of an alternate world order. That's how Russia and China view it. North Korea so far has mostly just done its own thing, but it has

in some ways echoed those points at times about wanting to undo the system, the US-led global system. And this is it is a natural fit for that vision that Russia and China appear to share. And so when this opportunity came up, certainly that is a message that comes through loud and clear from this. We are united when going to stand against the West. And at the same time, of course,

there's still that concern. Is it going to dilute its impact? But the way they handled it, the way China essentially, yes, they didn't, Putin was still more important, of course, but Kim Jong-un was the next most important person, even the initial broadcasts. Those were the only two leaders they showed actually getting out of their cars, paid a lot of attention to them and throughout the

entire day's events, it was the three leaders mostly walked together, sat together, talked with each other. So in the sense, yes, Kim Jong-un has had to accept playing second fiddle to Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin, but

he wasn't that far behind. And I think, think in a sense, this really continues that trend we've seen of how state media, how state propaganda portrays him when he holds these summits, showing him as a powerful leader on par with the world's most powerful leaders. And here he is standing shoulder to shoulder with Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin. You haven't had a chance to check the North Korean, the Rolong Shinmun yet and all the state media output yet, have you? Yeah, just briefly saw it this morning. and I think fundamentally it is following those lines. They're kind of showing the event in many ways as it was,

but right at the top of the Nordong Shindman, North Koreans would be able to see Kim Jong-un standing to the side of Xi Jinping, just the two leaders enthusiastically greeting each other. And so the reports are portraying it as North Korea essentially being an honored guest at China's big victory to a celebration. So much time, Paki, Russia and North Korea also. Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-in had a two-and-half-hour pull-aside bilateral summit there in Beijing, which is, I mean, I can't remember how many months it's been since the last minute,

but it's not that long, so that's a big event in itself. Was that also reported in the Royal Wing-Shindman photos of that bilateral? Right, okay. So I think obviously that was part of the agenda as well, when he's going to all the way to China. And he doesn't, for those listeners who didn't see, he doesn't fly there, he travels by train, which is a long trip.

Yes. That's a big deal to go there. Exactly. So it's a journey that takes the better part of a day, and then you turn up there, you're not just going to be there to, you know, sit at a parade with 20 other leaders. No.

You're there for some other meetings with your closest allies, and he has already met Russia now, He spent time with Vladimir Putin. So I think essentially mostly just continued what the sort of narratives that we've seen from Russia and North Korea in recent months. Has that a bilateral with Xi Jinping yet? Not yet. Okay, because that's something that, gosh, I mean, I've been talking about this for over a year that surely we would expect with all this Russia, North Korea attention that Xi Jinping would say to Kim, hey, come here or I'll go there. They haven't had a bilater yet, interesting.

But at the same time, I think in a sense, maybe from Kim Jong-un's perspective, it works out better for him to not have done it so far. Because, man, we don't know when Kim Jong-un is leaving China. He still has time. I'm sure he would rather have faced some actual quality face-time with Xi Jinping after the Victory Day celebrations. So maybe today or tomorrow, rather than do it when Xi Jinping is entertaining dozens of leaders. True.

You want to get his full attention? Absolutely. And I think just looking at it. the way Kim Jong-un is set up for this trip. They brought the train. They came here just a day before the actual victory day. They arrived in Beijing just a day before the victory day celebration. The car had been flown over from Pyongyang.

His special bulletproof car. Indeed, with a number commemorating the Korean War armist. 7-27? Yes, 7-2-7-1-9-3. He also brought his daughter with him. Yes. This is, I mean, can we lay to rest the idea that she's not significant? I mean, even if she doesn't end up one day being the next leader after he's dead,

let's just say that for now she's clearly an important player or being groomed to be an important player. Exactly. I think it's very hard. You don't bring your daughter along for a trip like this unless there is a very specific purpose, unless you're actually trying to expose her to this world of international diplomacy of trying to introduce her to essentially your top allies. Now, interestingly, we haven't actually seen her since she's stepped foot off that train. She wasn't involved in any of yesterday's events at the Victory Day Parade. That was pretty much just the leader. What about his wife or sister?

His wife is not there. So essentially, the daughter appears to be stepping in for that role because in Kim Jong-un's previous visits to Beijing, he always took his wife with him because that relationship, that brotherhood of sorts between China and North Korea, they always found it handy to symbolize that by having Xi Jinping and his wife. meet Kim Jong-un and his wife. Right. Now, essentially, in this case, the wife isn't there.

Yep. So if you want to maintain that personal connection, you bring out the daughter. So in all likelihood, one would assume if he is going to meet Xi Jinping at some point, I'm sure he'd want to, at least strategically, it would be useful to introduce his daughter to bring her out in public as well. I'm reminded of my recent interview with Joseph Tarigian, in which we talked about his recent biography of Xi Jinping's father, who traveled to North Korea. Korea in 1982, and one of his major missions in being there was to express China's approval

of Kim Jong-il being announced the successor to Kim Il-sung. I wonder now whether, if they do have that bilateral, whether this will become a topic of conversation that sort of, hey, Xi Jinping, I want you to meet my daughter, she will be following after me, perhaps. I mean, it would be interesting, certainly. I can't imagine they would announce it certainly at the stage too early, but not publicly. Yeah, at the very least. Among the two of them, perhaps.

Yeah, and I think it would be a very telling sign if Kim Jong-un does bring her to a meeting with Xi Jinping would be obviously not in the actual talks, still too young, still too disconnected from that side of the world. Right. But probably one would assume she will be brought out at some stage for a public event and, yeah, we'll probably learn a lot more about her going forward. To be honest, one thing we're also kind of interested in from our side is the daughter, name has never actually been given in North Korean media. It's largely going off assumptions based on first Dennis Rodman over a decade ago. Dennis Rodman said it was probably Kim Jouet.

Yes. And then we had this person from the retired NIS person who said, no, no, it's like, and then I've forgotten what that name was, but anyway, it was something else. I think they said Joy, which means that child. But there was also a separate NIS briefing where they also said, oh, we think it is Jewel, but it's not really certain. but I think everyone is kind of picked up on that name and now goes with it as assumed fact

it would be interesting I doubt China would actually Chinese media would report the name publicly this time but it would be quite interesting if they do find out about it and actually confirm her name might get leaked out what about the sister Kim Jojong is she there and is she playing any role I mean we've seen her I don't want to

to mock her too much but you know in past at parades and at summits, she's been sort of almost hiding behind a pillar coming forward only to bring an ashtray or a pen or something. Is she playing some supportive role? So she is there. It seems that she's not quite hiding behind the pillars this time, but she's certainly still not entirely stepping forward and acting like a senior official as much as an aid to her brother. So I think that part of her role still continues at these sorts of international Summets. So we saw her at various venues behind the scenes photos. When Kim Jong-un and Vladimir Putin got into a car to head to their meeting, she also got into the same car. So essentially,

she seems to be acting as one of his assistants at this point. Now, coming back to my earlier question about whether we're in a new world, a world of crunk or crink, this trilateral alignment that we've talked about that may or may not be solidifying to something a bit more meaty, perhaps an axis. Where's Iran in all of this? Because that's where Crink came from, right? It was originally China, Russia, Iran, North Korea. But I didn't see Iran's president, I'm going to butcher his name, Peschchian, really as far forward. He didn't make front-line photographs. Yeah, for some reason he was quite disconnected from all of this, and I'm not entirely sure why. Actually, in some of the photographs, I saw another eye country.

I saw India's Prime Minister Modi in their more prominent. Oh, that was a the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Oh, I beg your pardon. So an Indian leader cannot really afford to be seen at a Chinese military celebration. No, no, no. Yeah, I just thought, okay. So that was the previous event. My apologies to this is there.

Bit of beg on my face. Yeah. Okay. But, yeah, essentially it was, but yeah, the Iranian president was there at the event, but seemed to be a very minor figure in comparison. It just was China, Russia and North Korea. When the leaders were, it was sort of all walking, I don't know, 10 abreast or so, I remember to one side of the triumvirate, those three leaders there, I saw Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko, so he was there either next to, I think you might have been next to Kim Jong-un in the photographs, if I'd call it. On the other side, there was another leader, someone who I didn't recognize, but could have been a European leader.

So, yeah, kind of surprised not to see Iran up there front and center with the other three, given all we've heard, and about the cooperation, the military cooperation, the troops. trade flows, et cetera, surprising. And incidentally, you mentioned Lukashenko. He met Kim Jong-un during, so ahead of the start of the military parade. And apparently also just reiterated his invitation to, or rather, Kim Jong-un invited Lukashenko to visit the DPRK. So that's a quick little bilateral poolside. Yeah. So it seems that Kim Jong-un did meet quite a few people while ahead of the start of the parade, also ran into Myanmar's military dictator.

So, yes. And South Korea's parliamentary speaker, Wonshik, his office said that he also ended up talking to Kim Jong-un and shaking his hand. They met seven years ago back when Moonjian was president and there were a lot of summits between the two countries. To be honest, we've since heard some claims from South Korean lawmaker that Warnshik may have tried to just force the issue a bit and tried to approach Kim Jong-un, and Kim Jong-un was reluctant, which makes sense, but at the same time, that's still just hearsay. Interesting. Yeah, it would be interesting to see if and how the North Korean media reports on this, if they choose to. Well, probably we'll end it up, ended up there. Oh, you've got a last point. We do actually. There's one other very important

factor we haven't really discussed, which is Donald Trump. Who was not there, but who had some things to say? Absolutely. He was not there, and he was not entirely pleased. about the idea of having Russia and North Korea, which he has expressed an interest in at least having some sort of dialogue with, turning up at an event hosted by China, which he is very much at Old Swith right now. And so I think he... On his truth social, he got a bit sarcastic. Didn't he say something like, I hope you have a nice time there plotting against America

or something like that. Yes, pretty much. So please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un as you conspire against the United States of America. which is, you know, an interesting sarcastic remark. But it does seem like that resentment is still there because overnight in Korea, rather so on Wednesday in the US, Trump followed up with comments saying that relations with North Korea, Russia and China

will probably be tested in the next week or two. Yeah, well, and now tonight for NKPro subscribers, we'll be having a live webinar. So this podcast will come out sometime. today, Thursday afternoon, and at 8 p.m. We'll be having a live event with Chatter Carol Collins' work on John DeLurie to do a more in-depth analysis and discussion of not just a parade, but also I think the gala dinner and other events around it.

So for those who are subscribers, if you have already registered, check out that one. And if you're not, then sign up to NKPro so that you don't miss further events. Thanks very much, Treas. Thank you. is fast-evolving political business and cultural landscape? Join us on Korea Pro, the go-to resource for in-depth analysis expertly curated by top-tier professionals.

And now you can pick the membership level that best suits your needs thanks to our new subscription packages. Starting at just $199 annually, you can access daily analysis and our weekly podcast. Or try our premium membership package, which offers additional perks such as executive. briefings, monthly reports and forecasts, networking receptions and event opportunities,

as well as much, much more. To find the best fit for you, just head to signup.careapro.org and become a member today. Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of our podcast episode for today. Our thanks go to Brian Betts and Alana Hill for facilitating this episode and to our post-recording producer genius Gabby Magnuson who cuts out all the extraneous noises, awkward silences, bodily functions and fixes the audio levels. Thank you and listen again next time.