North Korea News Podcast by NK News - US-North Korea summit prospects, a new envoy in Seoul and Kim’s cemetery visit

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

NK News founder Chad O’Carroll joins the podcast this week to unpack the busy week ahead on the Korean Peninsula as APEC kicks off and U.S. President Donald Trump heads to South Korea. He discusses the growing speculation over whether Trump will meet North Korean leader Kim Jong Un for the first time in over […]

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Hello listeners and welcome to the NK News podcast. I'm your host, Jack O'Swetzlid, and today it is Tuesday, the 28th of October 2025. It's APEC week. I'm joined here in the NK News studio by Chad O'Carroll. Chad, welcome back. Hi there. How's it going? I'm doing fantastic. Thank you. So there's a lot going on.

Obviously, we've got a few stories to talk through, but this being APEC week, we believe that Donald Trump will be arriving. likely tomorrow here in Korea to go down to Kyeongju. The hot topic for the last couple of months has been, will he reach out to Kim Jong-un. And if so, will Kim Jong-un meet him?

Now, I understand that on the Air Force One plane on the way to Asia, he had some meetings in other countries, or Japan, he's been in Japan, he's been in the Emperor, etc. On the way, in Air Force One, journalist asked him about whether he'd be meeting Kim. What do you say? Yeah, he's basically said he's very open to it.

He'd like to meet. Kim and he said that reporters could play a role in getting the message to Kim because there's not much, quote, telephonic service in the DPRK. Why can't he just tweet again like he did six years ago? He could just send that tweet. Hey, I'm in the area. Let's get together for a coffee at Pan Munjom. Yeah, I mean, interestingly, everything he's done in the last, well, pretty much since

inauguration on North Korea, everything he's said has been in response to journalistic questions. he's not really said anything proactively. So that makes me think it's like a nice to have, not a need to have for him. Yes. And even this, if he'd like to meet, I'm around, you know. Like that sounds like, you know, when you're talking to a friend, he's, do you want to meet that girl?

Like, do you want to date and, well, you know, if she's interested, I'm interested, and if she reached out first, I'll, you know, it sounds a bit passive. Yeah, yeah. But in his defense, he has allegedly, according to sources we spoke to earlier this year, written letters that have been turned away

from the DPR K-Permanentemission to the United Nations. Returned to sender. Yeah, so it's, I mean, going back to your analogy, it's like if you're the guy texting the girl and she just ignores you, but you still have feelings, you might put yourself out there in a more kind of ambiguous way,

as Trump appears to be doing now. I mean, it's weird to be talking in these, kind of ways about world leaders, but there is something, I think, related. It's like who is more attentive to the other. And there is some protocol, I guess, that goes with that. You don't want to be looking too desperate to me. No. Now, of course, the big question is, has Kim sent any signs either way at all,

apart from having his embassy or his mission in New York sent back the letters? Has he said anything? Yeah, there have been statements in the last, few weeks and months, which basically state that the two leaders have had a good personal relationship and that the North Koreans see President Trump separately to U.S. hostile policy. And there is also being the omission of anti-U.S. rhetoric in state media. A really good example is Chesson-Heed just went to Moscow. Right. She met Vladimir Putin. Yeah, she met with Putin and the foreign minister. And basically the Russian readout.

of that has a statement which points to the U.S. being to blame for exercises and military tension on the peninsula, but the North Korean coverage omitted that while Trump is on route to Korea. So, you know, those little signs to me suggest at least the North Koreans are in wait and sea mode as well. And... Mind you, sending your foreign minister to meet Vladimir Putin is not an immediate sign of interest in meeting the president of the United States, is it? No, and they did know the timing of this word of line. And she is an important stakeholder with a lot of experience on U.S. bilateral diplomacy.

Because she was around and, well, she was in that meeting in Hanoi, was she not? She was in Singapore as well. Yeah, so, yeah, it's hard. That is a bit of a cold, cold sign on it. But at the same time, if you're Kim Jong-un and you're looking at what's going on, when else are you possibly going to have a US president that I would say is willing to go to Pyongyang and delay his return to the US and basically he said he's going to be open to talking about sanctions relief

he's already talked about North Korea being a nuclear power multiple times right and he said he's willing to extend his trip to Asia if there is a sign that Kim wants to meet now a lot of presidents would just say look I've got stuff going on back in Washington I've got to go back but Trump's like hey I'll play it by year if you say yes I'll extend my trip I'll meet you. That's what I'm saying. I think if Kim Jong-un declined to make the most of this opportunity, to me it looks like a big missed opportunity. He thinks it's a best opportunity for Kim. He may never get a US president like this for again in his lifetime. So why no

at least meet? There's going to be no major agenda. Right. And they can have a talk about future talks. Yep. So nice photos. Like they did it at Panmunjom in June 2019, right? I mean, That led to nothing, but at least they were talking. Look, and if any of Trump's advisors or people are listening, if Donald Trump really wants to get that Nobel Peace Prize, he needs to do a little bit more. He's got to work on the career situation, don't you think? 100%.

I think it should be a top priority. Yeah, a major war here could devastate the world economy. Yeah. Now, there are people betting on whether a meeting goes ahead. What are the odds looking like right now? Well, on Polly Market, it's a 25% chance that North Korea, a Kim Trump will step foot in North Korea before the end of the year. Now, what that means is if you were to put $250 down and he does go,

you'll get about a thousand back. So to me, that's pretty good odds. So it's a one and four chance. Yeah. That's not bad. Yeah. I might put some money down. Okay.

Putting your money where you mouth is having a skim of the game. And to be transparent, I have no insider information on this. So it's not. I'm just a betting man sometimes. Okay, now, a young fellow, a little bit younger than you, Kevin Kim, named to be the next ambassador, or sorry, interim chaget defers, right? So he's not an ambassador that receives senatorial approval. Am I correct understanding that?

Yeah, I mean, I was just walking into the office, and I saw his arm limousine roll past, and I saw the back of his heads, and I thought, should I go knock on the window? Kevin Kim's head, he's already here. Yeah, yeah, he just drove past earlier this morning. Oh, okay. So that means Joe Yun's already left then?

Yeah, Joe Yun left last week. Ah, okay. So Sharj de Affairs, Kim, is in town and obviously has a lot of practical experience on USDPRK to walk. So if there is something that takes place, Trump has a good person in the U.S. embassy to lead on preparation for this. Now, he's got a state department background, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's been there for many years. How does it work in terms of, you know, there are some countries to which there are only political appointees for ambassadors and there are some other countries to which you get career state department officials?

Is this an unusual pick for a top job? Well, it's unusual, I think, in the sense that we've already had a acting ambassador, Joe Yun. And now we have what appears to be another short-term placement. While we could see an actual ambassador title given to Kevin Kim, it would require the whole nomination process and a lot of back and forth. Senate hearings. Yeah. So I guess reading between the lines, Trump wanted one of his people in quickly, and the best way to do that was on the acting charged affairs basis rather than the whole rigmarole of appointing an ambassador. Who knows, like where, what the real story is here in terms of why it was done now and how long it will indeed last.

But it may be a short-term position for him. It may be a long term. We'll have to wait and see. If Donald Trump does name another person as ambassador, that person will come in, you know, basically as Kevin Kim's boss, right? So he'd go back down to the number two at the embassy. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Okay. Have you met Kevin before?

Do you know him personally? Yes, I've met him. a few times, most... Because you used to live and work in Washington, D.C., our listeners may not know that. Did you run across each other back then? Back when you were at a sink tank days? Yeah, we were probably there at the same time.

I most recently saw him in the elevator of the four seasons, and we said hello. Well, that is a place to see each other. Any anecdotes to share any insights into his character or his expertise? No, nothing I can share. I don't know him very well at all, so I don't have any inside Goss to share, but hopefully we'll get to meet him,

while he's here in, so. Yes, well, Mr. Kim, if you or your staff are listening, we'd love to have you in for a podcast. A post-Summit podcast. Exactly. And if that doesn't work, then at least an off-the-record chat at the four seasons, perhaps, now let's go on to the next story.

Kim Jong-un, he went to the cemetery of the fallen Chinese soldiers, the Chinese people's volunteers from the Korean War, and paid tribute to those veterans and laid a wreath. He did something there. He kneeled, I see in the photograph him kneeling at some sort of a memorial stone. But he chose an interesting wardrobe there, sort of a leather bomber jacket. Yeah, the leather jacket, and some people interpreted that as a slight sign of disrespect. Could that be overthinking it?

Yeah, I think it's overthinking it. It is not normal protocol. But he has worn that leather jacket in a wide range, I mean, I'm pretty sure missile launches for sure. Right. Sometimes he's got the full-length Matrix leather coat. Yeah, yeah. But this is the short sort of bomber jacket. I'm pretty sure he wore that, that cinema, like cinema style ICBM launch from a year or two ago.

Yeah, the sunglasses, the top gun like, yeah. Yeah, but no, I think, look, the overall trend line here is that China, North Korea, high-level diplomacy exchanges are really on the uptick. And this is just the latest sign that Kim Jong-un is buying into it. we can have a fuss about the wardrobe selection, but I think the trend line is real, and it points to the two countries getting over whatever commotion there was in 2023. Or just a frostiness.

Yeah, yeah. There were loads of superficial indicators that there was something not, right? But things are clearly building momentum again, and I guess the clue is, the key question is whether or not we're going to see this translate into actual progress on, economic exchange, for example, is that new yellow bridge, which has been unopened since

2013. We've not seen the political will from either side translate into actual practical progress on some big ticket items like that. So, you know, there's still a lot of space for that relationship to grow. And I think it's still a lot of distrust behind closed doors. But overall, yeah, things are going back in a strong way for China-North Korea relations. Kim's visit to the cemetery on Sunday, on that visit, he was joined by Foreign Minister Cheson He, ahead of her visit to Moscow to meet Vladimir Putin.

So she certainly has had a busy schedule the last couple of weeks, you know, doing this diplomacy with Russia and diplomacy with China. Did you see if there were any Chinese officials there at the cemetery at the same time, or was it just North Koreans? Oh, I didn't study the state media output from that. I did see in the story that while at the cemetery, Kim specifically visited the grave of Mao. Wang Ying, the elder son of Mao Zedong, who was killed in the Korean War. So that's a lot of optics on that one, very meaningful visit. So yeah, let's see how that goes, how that affects China and North Korea relations going forward. Yeah.

And our last story for today, a Russian VIP business jet of a private plane made a rare trip to North Korea stuck around for a couple of days. Yeah. What's going on there? Yeah, so just for context, well, we've seen lots of... of irregular flights from Russia to North Korea over the last, especially two, three years. I think, pretty sure this is the first time we've seen a private business jet going in. And they are very, very rare. Like the last, there's been two or three I can think of in the last, honestly, ten years

that we've picked up on flight tracking data. The last one being the head of Oroscom going in in 2016. Oh, yeah, the Egyptian telecom and construction company. Yeah, he went in in November of that year, and that was never reported in North Korean State Media. Likewise, whoever was on board this Tennessee luxury configuration aircraft, there has been no reporting of them in North Korean State Media coming in on Friday or leaving this. Normally, if it is someone that they want people to know about, you know, a delegation, a politician, their photographs and their names will be all over the North Korean papers, right? Exactly. So this is very unusual. It could be a high-level Russian business person. Interesting, the flight stopped in, it started in Moscow. I appeared to refuel en route and then

arrived in Pyongyang, so quite a long rooting for this small aircraft, a bombardier. I think it was a bombardier, yeah, a jet, a business jet. And it's got a link to a province or area of Russia, can you, can you, can you, can you, yeah, Tartastan, which allegedly has some drone, well, it does have drone manufacturing capabilities. So that's just, that's a potential connection given we know the two countries

are cooperating on that. But it could be a political figure as well, but my guess is actually probably rather than government, it's probably a business person. Could it be Gerard de Padre? It could be Gerard. No. I don't think it's your. The Russian musician, Shaman, going back to North Korea

We wondered if it was to do the Pyongyang International Film Festival. Which is this week? Well, the kickoff of it was last Wednesday. Oh, okay. And this flight arrived on Friday. We've got the Pyongyang International Trade Fair this week, but they left too early for that.

So I, yeah, it must be something else. But, you know, these are these stories that we often don't find out answers to for a very long time. Right. Well, we'll have to, on next week's episode, have to cover the film festival and the trade fair and see if we've got any interesting tidbits out of that one. Yeah. Well, thanks very much, Chad, for joining us on the NK News podcast today. See you again soon.

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