Not As We Planned - 8. Second Chances

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

Second chances… do you believe in them? With different opinions, we share our experiences and your stories that you’ve sent in to give you an insight into whether second chances can work Producer: Tristan Hehir City Lights by Ghostrifter Official | https://soundcloud.com/ghostrifter-officialMusic promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.comCreative Commons / Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported (CC BY-ND 3.0)https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You'll flip for $4 pancakes at A&W. Wake up to a stack of three light and fluffy pancakes topped with syrup. Only $4 on now. Dine-in only until 11 a.m. at A&W's in Ontario. This episode is brought to you by CIBC. From closing that first sale to opening a second store, as a business owner, you've hustled to accomplish a lot. But the rewards don't stop there. When you earn two times more points on things that matter to you and your

business, easily track those business expenses, and experience flexible Aventura rewards, you'll realize how much more rewarding your hustle can be. Get up to $1,800 in value when you apply for the CIBC Aventura Visa for Business at cibc.com slash Aventura Business. Terms and conditions apply. Hey. Hi. It's Tash and Carly. And you're listening to Motherhood Not As We Planned. So get comfy, grab a cup of tea or a glass of wine, and let's start talking about all the things too many of us avoid discussing. Welcome to this week's episode of Motherhood Not As We Plan. This week we are talking, it's something quite big, aren't we?

We're talking about second chances. So we're talking about, can you? Could you give someone a second chance or could you not? We'll be hearing from some of you guys about some successes of second chances and also those who perhaps wish they hadn't yeah i think i don't think it's as black and white as yes you should always give one or no you should never i do think obviously situations can differ um but i'm intrigued to know your thoughts i feel like generally with everything we seem to have

quite different opinions on things do you believe in second chances okay hear me out here yeah so i really think it depends on the people involved right the kind of person you are the kind of person they are I think for second chances to happen and to be able to move forward positively both parties have to be on board at building that trust to some degree if something's gone wrong normally in situations trust has been broken right so it's really important to build that trust together. If both parties aren't on board and willing to put everything into that, that's not going to work. And I have seen and experienced people close to me who have gone through something like that,

where a second chance has been offered, and are now, and I genuinely mean this in the most loving trusting relationship but that has taken years and years of work and that's from both parties that's not just one and like I look at it in admiration um the, like just the strength and I don't know, willingness decided to to live to leave and accept my new circumstances I know me as a person I I don't believe in second chances particularly when it comes to things like trust in a marriage I think I don't know if I'm just like really old school like really hopeless romantic to me a marriage is about trust. That's what any relationship, that foundation is trust.

If you don't have trust, that relationship is not going to work. For me, if trust is broken, even if that's been done just once, I know that I'm the kind of person who would just never be able to trust them again no matter what happened I would always have that element of doubt and I know what kind of person I am I would use it against them forever and that's toxic that builds up that resentment from their side as well quite rightly it's one of those is like if you're going to stay and forgive and rebuild and can't use it as like ammo in every argument exactly that and I feel like I would I know what I'm like as a person I'm I don't know as well like if you've been

subject to something where trust has been broken you lose a lot of confidence you have a lot of self-doubt about everything and I feel like I would be paranoid about situations that previously like wouldn't have bothered me and I just I don't know it's for me as well it's about that self-respect and self-worth I know we've spoken about that before I deserve better I and again it's things I've said numerous times. You get one life. I don't want to spend the rest of my life trying really, really, really hard to make something work. And when I feel like I might have been disrespected in a way, I want more for myself and more for my life. So for me, I think as well, we're talking about second chances.

I think it depends, second chances are a lot. Yeah. And it depends about the severity of things. I think sometimes in relationships, people can make mistakes. I'm not talking about like infidelity or things like that, but people can make mistakes in relationships with humans. Sometimes, you know, you might, I don't know, do something that might upset someone or it might just be an

argument or something and i think it depends on the severity and i don't know whether that impacts your trust in that person yeah um i think we have to understand like as humans we don't have a book as to how to get it right but i think there's when lines are crossed in terms of levels of respect like particularly if you have children with someone I just think there's a certain line of respect that you should then have for yourself if you're not being respected like listening to what you're saying I agree with every poem but putting that what you said into play and actually following it through I think I found really difficult so I can't sit here and say that I don't believe in second chances because I gave fourth and fifth and sixth yeah yeah exactly um as you said it's a hundred

percent down to what the situation is you know if someone's done something that's really repairable that absolutely second chances I think are fair and I feel like should be given yes as you said we're human but then when I think it gets more extreme with things like cheating or some sort of betrayal that's going to really affect the trust in your relationship very much like what you said I think I held so much resentment and our relationship changed so much based on my lack of trust that although I gave the second third chances however many our relationship never got better because of how I am as a person so what how you said you would be that's how I was and it's very much living proof that like it doesn't really work um I feel like I was in that sort of place where I just constantly hoped that he would change and some

people I do believe some people can change especially when you know I think I maybe speak for both of us our relationship started at such a young age that like I've changed some in good ways some in bad ways and so did he so I do believe that you can be like a younger guy that's maybe not particularly faithful or can be a bit of a liar or maybe does like has bad habits or something you can make those changes um I think I probably speak for a lot of people where I think one of the main reasons I stayed is because I think I saw his potential for he could be like I know I've experienced some good times of him I've been like I know like how amazing can be like we can get that back yeah that's so normal I didn't I wasn't

in this 17 year relationship constantly being like why am I with this person who's horrible like we did have good times and it's like you hold on to those good moments those good days those good weeks and you're like this is who I love like I can fix him I can change him I'm going to be that person that changes him and I'm such a fixer and when you see that potential in someone and the amount of time And the amount of time and effort I put into our relationship, I didn't want it to be a waste. And that's why I think I also found it really hard to leave. But it's interesting, some of the emails that we've got about second chances, there are some, like you said, there are some situations where it's so lovely that they gave a second chance because actually, where it's so lovely that they gave a second chance because actually sometimes going through a bad patch in your marriage,

I think makes you guys kind of open and communicate more to kind of being like, do you know what? Yes, I did bad, but I did bad because you did this. So it's all of a sudden you're actually, you needed to sort of like hit rock bottom in your relationship to both really open up and be like, I did this because of this. And I'm not saying that it's okay for someone to do wrong and blame it on the other partner. But sometimes I feel like, let's take cheating, for example. Some people might disagree with me.

This might be quite a controversial comment. might disagree with me this might be quite a controversial comment but I don't think that cheating is as black and white as you did the cheating you're wrong now you might disagree okay just hear me out a minute okay you out just so you've got a man and a woman and they're in a relationship and their needs just generally aren't being met. And some people just do find it quite hard to vocalize that. Yeah, like maybe communication isn't great and they're just not great at trying to like make their points heard. I think when someone is lacking affection words of affirmation just general love in a relationship

it is quite easy if you get attention elsewhere to accept it when you're not getting it at home now again i'm sure people are probably screaming at their phones being like but you shouldn't do that or that then if you're not happy leave it's really cowardly and yes i do sort of agree to that to a certain extent but if you're trying to get something from your partner and they are not giving it to you it is a human need to eventually seek it elsewhere okay hold on can i quickly say, I'm not in any way saying cheating is okay because I don't think it is. I understand that. And I think a lot of people cheat for those reasons,

obviously seeking something they don't have. But again, in my opinion, sorry, that comes down to the communication and whether or not you're bad at communicating i think when you make a promise to be with someone for the rest of your life the better for worse and good times and bad you have to work at it and regardless of whether you're bad or good at communicating and if you've been put in those situations where you might be tempted or you can see people aren't stupid. If you start receiving attention in a certain way, you have an idea how things might go.

I think, I don't know, for me, it's inexcusable and I feel like there's such a line of respect and sayings and I think then, once that person's had that feeling, right, this might lead to something physically or emotionally or whatever it might be I need to address this now I've married this person or you know for those who aren't married like I've committed to that person had a child with that person I need to talk about this this is like becoming very real for me that's inexcusable and I yeah that's I'm very much I don't know if it's just old school or what but you know what it's not old school and I'm not sitting here saying like if you feel this

way I feel like you've got the right to cheat what I'm saying is I don't think it's as black and white so just say that situation did happen say the husband is always at work, does late nights, comes home, sleeps, goes back to work the next day. And the woman is at home with her kids, really like overworked with the children, not feeling like she's getting any love, communicates it to her husband. Nothing really changes. And someone starts giving her the attention. Again, I'm not condoning this behavior what I'm saying is I feel like sometimes situations like that tend to be the ones in my opinion where second chances probably work because it's not you're a cheater you had everything that you wanted at home

I just feel like it's naive to believe it's as black and white as once a cheat always a cheat sometimes I feel like there are underlying issues that can maybe be easily solved obviously when you overstep that line and you do maybe have an emotional affair or physical affair whatever as you said if the person that has been cheated on probably won't let it go or accept it then it probably won't work but sometimes I feel like it's situations like that where second chances are more likely to work if you have that communication and you go to therapy and you're sitting there being like I didn't want him I wanted you but you were never present do you know what I mean I'm just trying to think outside the know I and I'm not speaking of experience here by the way just to put it out

there like I didn't I wasn't unfaithful but I just sometimes think that until you're in a situation like that it's very easy just to be like he cheated no don't give a second chance and leave but again I think that comes down to the kind of person you are. Absolutely. And I guess what I'm trying to say is the scenario of the affair. There is no right or wrong. There is no right or wrong way. We can't sit here and say, you know, you've experienced, I don't know, infidelity.

You need to leave. That's it. You know, we've obviously chosen our routes with, again, very different. Like you said, you stayed a long time. You put on a hell of a lot. I'm very much, again, it comes down to the individual. But I think you know deep down if you could ever forgive forgive and forget and that's the thing if you are willing to work on something you have to have it in you to forgive you don't necessarily have to forget

i don't believe no i don't think you can ever forget i don't think you can ever do you know what else i think makes a difference i think it makes a difference how someone finds out just say someone literally sat you down and came clean and was like i've fucked up blah blah blah i've done this this and this i feel horrific i don't want to lose you can we go to therapy scenario a scenario b get caught. That's much harder to recover from because it's like, would I have ever found out? Would you have ever been told? Yeah. So also, do you know what? It's not just infidelity. I feel like you may have a situation where one of them, like the husband or the wife or whatever, is an addict. Take addiction, for example. It's a completely different scenario so i think some

people will see it as you know an actual illness mental health problem other people might see it as it's a cop-out you know if you you shouldn't take drugs or don't take drugs so it's also things like that like relapses could be seen as second chances and i feel like so i don't think it's we're not just talking about infidelity we're not just, there's so many scenarios in a relationship. It could be related to, you know, money problems. Someone lost their job and lied about it. And, you know, that's a complete lack of trust as well. So I guess what I'm just trying to say is, and I don't want people listening to this thinking that I'm condoning certain behaviors because I'm not.

And I know that I should have left my relationship long before I did I just think that sometimes good people can make bad choices and maybe it also comes down to if you can't trust I personally don't think there's a point but if you hand on heart feel like that person has that remorse and is genuinely sorry for their mistakes, like you said, someone close to you, it happened. So obviously it can work. And that was obviously a situation where they genuinely felt.

Yeah. And obviously in my situation, I had that situation. In the back of your mind. In the back of my mind and like there were points at the start of the end where I did consider like thinking you know I've seen this work I've seen people change I've seen positive come from this and there was a point there was a point where I was considering like do I just go all in and try and then I think a lot depends on your situation I think it depends like you were saying on the remorse you can genuinely tell from

someone whether they're sorry I think the way they behave um you know after a situation well it's are you sorry that you did it or are you sorry that you got caught? There's doubt. I think the way in which they then handle themselves, handle the situation, the way they play those cards, the next, you know, preceding weeks, I think really tell a lot about somehow. You know, a lot of it's about them accepting responsibility for what they've done and validating and accepting the way they've made you feel by betraying your trust. Yeah.

Whatever the situation is, I think it's really important in those situations, particularly if you're considering a second chance, that you feel like the way you feel is completely validated because you have every right to feel like that. If there's gaslighting involved. That's what I mean. So blame... The thing is, maybe I need to go back because what I don't want to... You know how I was saying, sometimes it's not as black and white.

Maybe that person was not giving them the affection they needed and they then went somewhere else. If that person was sitting there being like, I did it because you did... Yeah, that's... No, that I don't think is okay and blame is never okay in things like that yeah i think as well like what i understand what you're saying don't necessarily 100 agree but that's just me true i but for recognizing i did this because i felt this way about this situation. And I think choice of words is really, really important.

I've seen quite a lot. Tone. Tone, yeah. I've seen loads of, and I think it came up, like when I was first broke up, I got all these, like your algorithm, yeah, like discovery page. Oh my God, it was insane.

But just like the language you use, like kind of like accepting you know i i did this because i was feeling this way rather than i did this because you and it's that blame and i think it is the language used after something like that i think is really impactful and it can be really dangerous actually when used incorrectly it's like what people say is form what's that what's that phrase fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me have you heard that person i hope i've said it right in other words it's like if you want to give someone a second chance do it but if you're going to give someone a third chance it's kind of on you and and really I feel like towards the end I'm not going to sit

there and say like I deserved the heartache and everything I got put through because I stayed and stayed and stayed in theory well maybe oh no I didn't deserve it but at the end of the day you know we get messages all the time with people saying like I just I can't do it I didn't deserve it but at the end of the day you know we get messages all the time with people saying like I just I can't do it I can't leave yet and my response to them is then you're not meant to yet it's waiting for that time that you feel strong enough to be like this isn't right for me I deserve better so I'm gonna go but I it makes me sad because I was that person that just stayed constantly being like but maybe this time he'll change maybe this time he'll change and then it got to a point where I was like I want to be with someone that doesn't need to change but I think it takes a lot

to hit that point and as well especially when kids are involved yeah the whole concept being on your own and everything you know you know financially when you've been with someone a long time it's absolutely terrifying it's terrifying no matter what the situation whether something's laid out in black and white or whether it's been a build-up over time like it is terror change is terrifying in any regard isn't it change is absolutely terrifying change i hate change but actually i'm kind of embracing change one thing I do want to say about second chances is if you do feel like you are someone who can give a second chance you have to almost not care about other people around you's opinion because someone will always have something to say always and you

know I'm saying this from a situation where I've given an opinion about someone giving someone a second chance. And actually, it's not really my place to have said anything or it's between those two people. And if they feel like that is the right thing to do, you should respect it. And even if people don't respect it, I think you know what you need to do and you just need to do it um i think i think particularly when you go through things like breakups or you find out things or whatever the situation there's there's a whole range of situations it could be in life people are always going to give an opinion no matter what you do in life it could be about anything it could be about the color you paint your walls and you just have to do what what you want to do and I think

yeah I agree I think the last few months I've really just started to accept like no matter what your choices or decisions are you just have to own it and do what makes you happy or what you think is the right thing to do I think also something I want to touch on and maybe this isn't the right advice to give it's just what I did I'm not giving very good advice today I just feel like when I maybe have found something out that made me sad or made me question my relationship be selective with who you tell until you know what you want to do because you may be okay to forgive and forget but others may not like close family close friends it makes your relationship a lot harder when all of a sudden you've got people

close to you being like why'd you stayed why have you done that but then it also becomes quite isolating I think you know I reckon what I thought six months of my marriage no one knew how bad things were um and I'm not sitting here saying so make sure you keep it to yourself and be alone in your thoughts, but it just worked for me that I knew my decision ended up coming from myself. I'm not that, you know, some people have, I feel like there's two very different coping mechanisms. You're either that person that like needs to vent,

needs to talk to someone, needs to let it all out, or you go into your cave, keep it to yourself and just kind of like go a bit MIA. I'm very much that first person. I need to talk to someone needs to let it all out or you go into your cave keep it to yourself and just kind of like go a bit mia i'm very much that first person i need to talk to someone but things got so bad and things were so shitty that i didn't have that confidence that i would leave so i could i felt like i couldn't tell anyone because people would literally be like what the fuck are you doing you need to go but now looking back I'm really happy that I know that no no one made yeah no one else made the decision for me other than myself it does make me sad when I think back to like those last six months doing it on my own and

the things that I was put through but I think until you're really ready to make that decision just be mindful of how much you share I I do agree with that I my experience was I would say 90% of the people who I had around me at the time who again I'm like you I'm I'm not someone who can go through something like that and keep it to myself literally you know once once I had information yeah I was on the phone to my best friends yeah family um but one thing I will say about kind of the people I had around me is pretty much all of them said no matter what you decide we are here to support you no matter what you decide, we are here to support you. No matter what your decision, we will... We are so nice. Which felt so nice knowing that whatever I did... I think when family are involved and you've been with someone a very long time,

they're their family too as well. And it's not as... It's a loss for them as well. Or whatever their relationship was, whether it was close or not it's you know I'm it's it's all very close-knit um but just knowing I had support from either way I think just surrounding yourself with people like you genuinely trust want the best for you and then I think the right people yes like I've got people who will absolutely give their opinions and you know what love those people sometimes you need to hear the cutthroat and this and that but it's also nice to know that

you've got people around you who genuinely do just want what's best for you and what you and kind of almost like judge your opinion of what that is and what's yeah you regardless yeah tree with some of the emails we got yeah so we are we asked you guys to share with us about second chances obviously we we didn't want to just hear the bad like i gave second chances and that was stupid we wanted to hear any success stories because like we said we know there can be situations where people do give second chances and that was stupid. We wanted to hear any success stories because like we said, we know there can be situations where people do give second chances and things change. So we're just going to read through some of your emails.

And yeah, I think it'll be really nice for you to hear kind of how it can work in kind of both senses. Hi, girls. Just want to say how amazing you both are and listen to your first three episodes have just resonated with me so much. Cut a long story short. Met my ex at 21. We're together six years before deciding to save for our first home. We've been saving for a year and he blew it all while gambling. I found out and forgave him.

This should have been the first major red flag. Fast forward a year. We got our first house after me saving and putting down my own deposit. Had our first son the following year. Things were okay. We got married, although it was all me. He had no interest in planning. This should have been a second red flag. After our second son was born another year later, after the wedding, when my little one was two months old, I found letters from gambling companies and asked him outright whether he'd been gambling again. He denied it,

obviously, but my gut was telling me otherwise. I kept on and about four days later he admitted it. He had debts up to his eyeballs, £10,000. Again, I bailed him out, took his debt and used my personal credit cards to pay them off. Crazy, I know, looking back what a doormat I was. All this was going on with a newborn baby, the lies, the deceit and postnatal depression. I didn't have the strength to leave him or be on my own. Fast forward a couple of years when my youngest was three and my eldest was seven. It was just after Christmas 2017 I found an envelope when I was cleaning. It had dropped out of my ex's old work bag. It had his name on it. It was his birthday a week ago.

I opened it thinking it must have been from his grandmother. How wrong was I? It was a birthday card written to my ex from his lover. She was declaring his love to him. My heart stopped and I went crazy. I rang him and he told me that she worked with him and that it was a joke. But we talked. Yeah, hilarious.

He even went to get her and put her on the phone to me. Oh, God. They both denied anything going on. More for me. I believed them. Well, not really. I knew deep down but just didn't have the strength and decided to try and forget about it. Fast forward a year february 2019

normal monday morning preparing for work and school run his phone buzzed next to me on the bed as i did my hair showed up as a message from his dad no problem told him and then he denied there was ever a message i knew he was lying grabbed his phone and found two numbers stored under dad. Twice. Oh my god. He finally came clean. It was the woman from the birthday card a year ago. Ugh. Although he denies anything going on, one meet up when me and our boys dropped him on a night, would you believe?

What a lying, cheating scumbag. I hated him. I still do. I threw him out, but to make matters worse worse he refused to come clean and tell the kids. After living a lie for another week I said enough was enough and that we were telling the children. I'd finally found the strength. Some people might say that more for me and that I should have left him earlier. Yes, probably. But until you find that strength to do it I just couldn't. Doormat, yes. Walkover, yes. But no more. Giving chances depends on the people involved and the circumstances. I may or may not have given him too many chances. He didn't deserve

those chances, but never have regrets. I have two beautiful boys who I adore and live every day for them. Why does it make me cry? Some days I do take it hour by hour and other days I can't wait to see what the future holds. What I do know is follow your instincts, your gut. No one knows the situation as well as ourselves. Lots of love. I can't possibly tell you how bad I read in these emails. I think... Sorry.

I, um... I can really resonate with the... Just constantly, well, I feel like she did a lot of brushing under the carpet and just she says things like that she bailed him out and I think she paid off his debts and stuff. He's not seeing any consequences of his actions and I feel like that makes a massive difference as well with second chances i feel like if they don't see any consequence to something that

they've done that's so bad they're more likely to do it again i'm not saying it's not like a child where you've got to punish them but bailing them out yeah i think is like the worst thing that you can do yeah yeah but it's just nice to hear that now she's had found that strength and that's what you were saying isn't it sometimes you do have to go through all those things to get the strength and not everyone so as that strength to just up a knee yeah Yeah, definitely. But no, thank you for sending that in. Love goes out to you. I thought I'd email over my second chance with my partner. Whether you share it or not, I adore your podcast

and it's so positive to listen to and very empowering for us women. Me and my partner have had a very up and down relationship, to say the least, and it's been a great struggle for us both. After two children and continuous arguments over how his family treat me it made it very known I wasn't good enough for him and with his agreeing with everything they had said not understanding my anxieties and frustration we decided to call it a day. Everything was finalized for him to leave and financially I'd be okay with our two children. We sadly lost my nan and dad around this and his dad around the same time.

So you could say our emotions were very heightened. He asked me to please go to a family party with him and the children for the last time as he feared he couldn't look after the children without me. Of course, I agreed as I didn't want the children to miss out. I got drunk, the only way to cope around his family. And one thing led to another when we got home. Exactly four weeks later later two days before he

was due to leave I found out I was pregnant I just got goosebumps although I was shocked we both believed that this was a gift from my nan and his dad and it was their way of keeping us together sadly our 12-week scan and from various tests and procedures leading up to the 16 week scan we were told our baby wouldn't survive outside the womb due to multiple heart issues and and high drops i don't know what that is we had to make the heartbreaking decision to terminate for medical reasons this completely broke us emotionally but through it all we found the light at the end of the tunnel our baby fixed us in our relationship we were were able to communicate better, understand each other

and just build upon the amazing life that we can now have with our two children here with us. He now fully supports me, understands my lows and also has started to realise how toxic his family are towards me. Two years on and we are due to marry soon. Through a lot of heartache, we got our second chance and I couldn't be happier. Keep up the good work, girls.

That's really lovely. Yeah, like. It's so nice hearing stories like that where things can get better. And also the fact that like something really brought them bad, brought them back together, like a few bad things, like death, like. Look, like, yeah, it's like a really bitter sweet story,

isn't it? But no, like how lovely that you're getting married soon um send us pics yeah it's like yeah no that's really really lovely that was a nice one to hear let's see what else and it's nice to see it from both sides of the story like we're not sat here saying don't ever give second chances because hi absolutely loving the podcast you two are so brave i gave my partner a second chance and it's the best thing i ever did when my daughter was about eight months old i found out that that my then boyfriend had been messaging and other girls and was actually on a dating site it all came to

a head when he had been on a night out he was acting off and had been and had been for a while i just couldn't put my finger on it. That night, I waited until he fell asleep and went on his phone and bam, there it was. Snapchat, WhatsApp, Instagram message and the dating website. I was devastated. I felt like my whole world had fallen apart right in front of my eyes in a split second. The next morning, I had my bags packed and was ready to leave. He broke down. At first, I thought crocodile tears were being caught but he opened up about how unhappy he was feeling not only in the relationship but within himself. He hated who he was. He had a rough childhood and a lot of issues had stemmed back from them. I gave him one opportunity to tell me everything and he did.

He said he had never met anyone and nothing physical had happened. It was only messages. He showed me everything, which hurts so much, but I felt I needed to see the extent of what it was, what it all was. He also lied about money and had debts. He told me how much he loved me and our family and how sorry he was that he'd broken it in my heart. I could see how heartbroken he was, but I was also broken because of his actions,

so I left and went to my mum's. I remember saying at the time, I wish you'd just gone out, got drunk and slept with someone. For me at the time, it would have hurt less as I felt like messaging was over a period of time and he would have been spending time with me and our little family as he was sending other girls explicit messages. I felt like it was such a betrayal and not a spur-of-the-moment shit decision. The next day he told me he wanted me back and really wanted to get better for him, but also he wanted to get better for me and our daughter. Over the next few weeks and months he sorted his debts out, he went for therapy, he got a new job where he felt happy and valued. We went to relationship counseling and started to spend and enjoy time together again. Fast forward to now and we have been together 10 years.

We are now happier than ever. We have two children and are now engaged and I love our life. Don't get me wrong. It took a long time to rebuild the trust that was lost and it was a really difficult time. I also only think we managed to work because he took full responsibility and accountability for his behavior and acknowledged that he needed help and got the right help second chances only work if the person who has been hurt can truly forgive for a period i found it so hard not to bring it all back up in every argument we had, but that wasn't fair on him. I said yes to taking him back. It wasn't okay.

I kept using it against him, especially when he was trying so hard to repair and rebuild our relationship. Second chances don't work for everyone, and I think it definitely depends on circumstances. Yeah, like she got a nail on the head. It's what we've said. It's not only about that person, how sorry they are, the changes that they want to make, which I think is absolutely key.

It is getting to that point where you don't constantly bring it up and use it against them. I did that. Yeah, because that's toxic. I think it's that responsibility. It's just nailed it. It's that acceptance. he had to accept only

behavior own it and you know for some people there are other things going on that cause people to behave in a certain way you know there might be i don't know like mental health issues going on they might struggle to adapt to being a father they might i don't know be really miserable at work it could like there's so many different factors that could impact how they are in their relationship but if those aren't addressed it's almost like a spiral out of control i think that was a point i was trying to make when i said i don't think being unfaithful is as black and white as you're a cheater you did this once she always achieved sometimes it i think it's situations like this that i meant it's like being in that bad place not being able to really

like articulate how you're feeling and kind of just leading down that path of i think it's really amazing that he's gone and addressed all those like the debt he's changing the job he's gone to therapy yeah he's realized all the different things that were impacting the relationship and he's gone away like like what she said like she felt like she had to let go of it all because he was putting in so much work and i think again like that is absolutely crucial that your boat like that well they were on the same they were both working as it together and it is about that teamwork like when you marry someone or when you're with someone you become a team.

And if one person isn't pulling their weight, it doesn't work. Yeah. And we've said that before, haven't we? We have. Hi, my wife and I separated last October. It was a very messy separation as she quickly moved on with another woman who I believe she was also cheating on me with towards the end of our marriage. She also started to get her involved with our two-year-old without telling me and I had to hear things from my daughter.

So disrespectful. Fast forward to June, we went on a holiday with myself, her, our two-year-old and my ex-wife's parents. This holiday was booked when we were still together. I wasn't going to go initially. However, for my daughter's sake, I did. The holiday was faultless and rightly or wrongly so we ended up sleeping together and my ex-wife stated that she was still in love with me and was confused about her feelings for her new partner. When we got back from the UK, oh from the UK we've got an expansive audience. She continued to say she didn't she needed a couple of weeks to work out where her head was and decide where she was with our marriage i made it very clear and i'd done since we separated that i wanted to work on our marriage however because of the way she had been in her new relationship that that wasn't something that was going to happen after the holiday she was still saying how she loved me

when i saw her in this period of couple of weeks she would kiss me cuddle hold my hand etc and said i was enough and how her partner was the safe option. I got to the stage where I said I couldn't wait any longer and what she was doing was not okay she needed to decide where her head was at. I then found out that she was sleeping with her now partner without telling me after stating she was getting a break from her for a couple of weeks to work out where she stood all the time also telling me all she has is sleeping with me. I felt so used and worthless and even more angry that I got myself back into a place because I was okay and she brought me back in. She then has since stated that she's chosen to stay with her now partner

and doesn't want anything to do with me except exchanges of our daughter. I'm angry because from what she said to me she was not invested in this new relationship but now she's living her life and I'm having to pick what she said to me, she was not invested in this new relationship. Now she's living her life and I'm having to pick up the pieces of mine after the hurt that she's caused after knowing I wasn't over us. I feel horrendous for it and even more horrendous myself. So in a nutshell, no second chances and yes, I'm finally filing for divorce. Laughing emoji. I feel like reading this and like,

especially compared to like the other one that the second chance was like worth it. She hasn't said anything about like showing remorse, changing her behavior. It's very much like she needed a break to see where her head was at. That in itself is like a big red flag. See, I see it more as she sounds like someone

who really likes control and like she likes being in control of her feelings of the other persons and she's the puppeteer the she gets to choose what she wants and it's a bit like she wants a cake and she wants to eat it too on your own it's i think i i also think if someone is indecisive, that's not enough. You should be everything to someone. You should be number one. It's not enough to be a choice to someone. You deserve to be everything.

Sometimes I think reading these stories and hearing the ones that worked out and the ones that didn't, it actually does become very apparent the behaviour of the person that did wrong. You can see, hard to see when you're in it and you're the person like wanting it to work yeah but i think you can see quite quickly where the second chances are worth it and where they're not and again it does come down to the behaviors of the person who's perhaps done the wrong done yeah no absolutely hi just seeing that you're looking for people's experiences partners partners and second chances.

I found out my husband was having an affair in early 2018. He left and spent 14 months with the other woman whilst continually denying they were in a relationship. Randomly, one day he called me out of the blue and said that it was a huge mistake, that he was sorry and could we try again. Stupidly, I genuinely thought he was being genuine, so agreed to give it a go. Six months later, he moved back in and we resumed our life with him promising that he would never hurt me or the kids again. Fast forward to May this year, I'm packing for a holiday with our children when he announces that he can't do this anymore. No warning, no arguments, no reason, just that he's had enough. It felt like

deja vu. So I asked if there was someone else and again he flat out denied it. Eight weeks on and he's living elsewhere but all the signs are there that there is definitely someone else. The major one being that he's going away on holiday soon and I very much doubt he's going alone. But still he's very adamant that he left because of me. So in my case, the second chance just gave him the opportunity to ruin my life again. 23 years together and two children and not even the common decency to tell the truth.

Needless to say, there won't be a third chance. Again, it comes down to that. It sounds like he's had no acceptance of responsibility. And I think from some of the other stories where there were second chances, they spoke about sitting down together and being told everything. They wanted to know everything. And again, it's having that respect for someone to say, this is everything.

I'm laying it all here. You need to know it all. I want to work on this and I think that is the key difference I think how that person is after it I'm saying the same every time but actually now we're reading the stories it becomes more apparent I feel like if I were to sit here and read an email from myself about my situation, there was... Was there a more...

Yeah, but sometimes I feel like it's really easy not to pretend, but it's that sorry for being caught rather than sorry for being like you also think it's easy to have moments of weakness so for me it's are you actually sorry or is it one day where you're like ah like this is my new life it needs to be something that's continuous you need to know that it's genuine it almost needs to be like solidified like i am genuinely sorry in that being bought for like you want them to fight for your marriage or your relationship i just don't i'm like i guess anyone listening to this that's either like giving a second chance giving a fourth chance or whatever like i don't want anyone to ever listen to this and think that we're pretty much saying like, if this isn't happening and this isn't happening, then like

you're wasting your time leave. I was there. I was in it. I gave chance after chance after chance. And however much I could look back and be like, oh, I wish someone would have just like shaken me and been like, get the fuck out. I don't regret because as cliche as it sounds I wouldn't be where I know where I am now if those things hadn't happened I wouldn't have my children I yes it would have been nicer to maybe have a bit more respect for myself but at the same time like I got there in the end and also I think someone sitting here knowing what you're like now I feel like you've grown in ways you wouldn't have grown being with him yeah or staying in it yeah having walked away early like every everyone is different and I think

all these things make up the story of who you are who you become but everything teaches you a lesson and we can sit here thinking I wasted this amount of time. But really, we haven't. We all have to reach those points on our own. People can sit there and give their opinions. And, you know, you can look back now and think, God, there were so many red flags. Or, like, I was being so disrespected. But you have to reach that decision on your own.

And everyone is different. You know, some some people first time bam they're gone you know and other people it's not and again it's what we said right at the start of this episode it comes down to you as a person and it comes down to them as a person and you know whether you feel like you can put the work in and whether they accept the responsibility yeah look i mean life would be a lot easier if we lived it backwards, but we don't. So take everything as a lesson. Yeah.

So we wanted to do something. I don't know whether we're going to do it every week or maybe like every other. See if we love it. Yeah. So we did a little box on our Instagram stories called Stay or Leave. It's quite fitting for this episode, but we're going to probably do it. Probably most weeks. Yeah.

stay or leave it's quite fitting for this episode but we're going to probably do it probably most way yeah so people are sending in situations and we are going to give our opinion if you should stay or leave obviously not saying that our suggestion is we must don't don't take everything we say is like how to run your life because we are literally like we're not we're not professionals we're not therapists however these people are obviously sending it in wanting an opinion so we are happy to and also our mental state can often be quite questionable so speak for yourself current partner watches tiktok girls half naked and i know he's bought only fans before but i love him and stay through it even though i know and he even though I know and he doesn't know I know what would you do that's not that's not a leave I feel like it needs to be communicated

yeah what's he looking for what's he getting out of it is there something missing in your relationship communicate don't leave yeah husband to be slept with a prostitute a month before the wedding justification was mates on the stag told him they had done it. He didn't confess I found out from reading messages bragging to his mates. I've chosen to stay but now two kids

and worry as there's still no trust. It's heartbreaking as it is. He's leaning. Yeah. Feeting. Yeah. And also the fact he's paid for it makes it worse in my eyes.

And no remorse no remorse and yeah it's because his mates lean yeah likes other girls photos on instagram it's annoying but that's not a leave stay talk about it yeah and articulate how it's making you feel yeah and why he's doing it yeah that's that's not a leave. When he drunk-sexted other girls and told them he was single at the time, he wasn't. I don't think that's necessarily a leave. I think that's, again, communicate. Why is it happening? It's not okay.

No. Communicate. Yeah. Yeah. No, they were good. Make sure you guys send them in i think we'll do them each week yeah easy and quick yeah we're going to think of other things that we can do each week but guys thank you for kind of like sending in all your experiences um i think it

was a good yeah hopefully you got something from that and can see it from both points of view like again it's so dependent on the people involved in the situation so it's there's not just one answer for everything it's it's it second chances can definitely work in the situation for the right people and shown but yeah make sure you guys give us a follow yep share the more you share the more people we reach and that's literally what we want to do want to help as many people as we can absolutely thank you so much guys see you next week