Not As We Planned - Shelley J Whitehead: How to Heal Your Heartbreak, Set Boundaries and Gain Self Worth.

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Divorce week has hit us, and this episode is not one you will want to miss if you’re struggling with healing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys. Hi. You're listening to Not As We Plan. So get ready for honest, raw, unfiltered, unhinged story where we share our advice, opinion and talk about all the shit that people avoid discussing. We want to point out we are not qualified professionals, although I feel the high am one. And what we say is the advice we would give to our besties. Hi guys, welcome back to Not As We planned this week. We have someone juicy, don't we? Yeah, we've got a guest and we've listened to you guys because you're, you guys, I know you've said that you like hearing other people's experiences where maybe you can relate to their situation. They're not necessarily in the limelight. You know, someone like me or you or the people listening going through a similar situation to the emails that we get. So this person has been in a relationship and married for nearly 18 years, has recently found out that her husband is having an affair with a friend of hers and when I saw this on TikTok I got a lot of people tagging me well tagging the podcast in the comments being

like you need to get her on the podcast you need to get her on the podcast so we've got her on the podcast so let's go let's go so guys let's go so excited to welcome to the studio today Nicole hello hello thank you for being here thank you for having me how exciting you is this. It is so exciting. Would you just explain to our followers just a little bit about you and why you're here? Okay, so I started doing TikTok in like July

Oh wow. Really? Yeah, only in July. You've got so many followers. I know and it just literally just went crazy really fast. I turned 40 in July and you look fucking amazing. Oh, thank you. And my sisters, I've got four sisters, they took me away to Florence and we just randomly started posting

and it just went crazy. Love that. So we'd like go, I'd do a little talking video and then put my phone in my bag go out have drinks with my sisters and then look a few hours later and it would be like loads of comments loads of views what are you girls doing later and it was just yeah and it just kind of went from there but I am a mum of free I've been married for 13 years been in a relationship for 18 years yeah and I do TikTok I'm a TikTok creator now yeah what did you do before um nothing really I'm a mom yeah my husband's got um I'm a mom yeah my husband's got a construction company, so I've helped out with that. I did work for an aesthetics

clinic for about two or three years. I was a reception manager, but I left there maybe two years ago because we bought a house and was renovating the house. So, I was busy with that. So just a bit of everything, really. But yeah, this is full time now, really, for me. I love that. That's amazing. And then what has brought you here today? Okay, so two weeks ago, so like I just mentioned, my husband's a builder and he was actually doing an extension for a friend of mine and I called inappropriate messages between the pair of them. Oh, God, I didn't know that he was working for her. Yeah, yeah. So she had a builder do her kitchen and mess it up and she said to me, Nicole, please, please, can Matt can help? And I said, well, he's really busy, but I see if he can

call you. And this went on for a few weeks and then eventually he went around there and looked at the work because he was so busy it could only go there in the evenings and her husband works nights Oh no, don't Oh, she's married Yeah, she's married, yeah So you found this out two weeks ago

That your husband is having an affair I don't know if I would call it I don't know if it's an affair Obviously they're both downplaying it And saying it was just messages So it's hard for me to say an affair But it's an emotional affair Regardless, we've spoken about this before

Like there's an affair's an affair At the end of the day It's a break of trust Like you're married to someone, that's not appropriate. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. What made you look going on? Yeah, I'm assuming you had like a gut feel. I had a gut feeling.

I had a gut feeling. He was acting very, very distant. He works a lot anyway, but he was working like a lot and just being really distant and really weird with me. So I just had this gut feeling and he fell asleep and his phone was on his chest. So I went and I know his password. I unlocked his phone.

and he'd fallen asleep on the chat to her but it was a locked chat so obviously when you're in that mindset you're spiraling I'm trying to read I did read a lot more than what I screenshot but I screenshot too It was a locked chat though like that in itself

but he's saying now that it was a locked chat because she wouldn't leave him alone and he couldn't like he would say to her like stop messaging me and she would message him at all different times so and he knows obviously I know his password you know it's not like I know it because I go down his phone I just know it because if he's normal when you're in a relationship

And I need to do something, I'd pick up his phone. Do you know, if it rang, I'd answer it. So that's the reason why he's saying it's a lock chat. But, you know, anyway. So when I was reading and scrolling through, my mind was racing and going all over the place. I came out, I didn't know it was a locked chat. So I came out of the locks chat to send myself those screenshots and then I couldn't get back into the locked chat. Oh, so a lock chat isn't just the same pin as your phone pin.

No, I tried the pin as the phone pin. I didn't know that even. Oh, my God. Different pin. I didn't really even know locks chats was the thing. Now, afterwards I thought, oh my God, why did I not think of this? You don't in the moment. No, my twins have face ID on his phone.

So I would have only had to go into their room, got them to do the face ID, and I could have opened it. Do you know what? In the moment. I cannot even express how much I can understand when you look back on certain situations and you're like, if only I had done that, then I'd know all this. Or if I had just got my phone and filmed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't think like that.

You're in fire or flight. I was just, I couldn't even. Because I think it's the shock, isn't it? Yeah, and I couldn't even read the words. Like, when I see Megan, because obviously she was my friend as well. So when I see the name Megan, my mind was racing. Everything was going really quick. And I couldn't catch my breath.

Like, I was so thirsty as well. I needed a water. I don't know, but like, no, like I was, I felt like I couldn't, I don't know, I just needed, I had to go downstairs and get a glass of water. How friendly were, like, how, what was your friendship with her like? Right. So for the last, like, couple of years, she's really been trying to befriend me. Like, she used to do my facials.

my sister's facials and then when my husband started working there you would think that if if they started talking inappropriately that she would maybe like go distant with me but no it was complete opposite she was messaging me in the morning in the afternoon sending me voice notes asking to borrow my clothes more so than like previously yeah more so than previously it's obviously guilt isn't it and now when I think about it I think why did I not connect the dots because she was messaging me at like five o'clock in the morning saying things like oh why are you awake hon why are you checking if I'm online? Are you checking if I'm online because you're going to ring him while he's in the van on the way to work? Do you know like now you think about those things like I wouldn't

if I woke up I wouldn't know that my sister Rachel or Ellie or whoever is awake unless I looked at their WhatsApp and see that they were online. I don't even have my status and normally. Those sort of things are not going to cross your mind because you're unaware. You're only thinking it now that you know once once you look back you're like oh actually that makes sense. Yeah it makes sense now Why would you message me and say, oh, you're awake, I'm always awake at this time. Why are you, like, do you not sleep like me? And she was saying lots of things like, me and you are so similar. We're not similar at all.

Like, she kept saying things like that. And I just thought she was a bit strange, to be honest with you. Because although she was my friend and she's done my facials, I've never been out for lunch with her. So it's not like, it's not like, you know, it's so friendly with her. No, but she was, she's been trying to for the last couple of years. Like, not just with me, with all of my sisters. Is she like obsessed with you? I don't know.

It's very bizarre. but just, yeah, just, yeah, she's just been trying to befriend me, like, even going back. And now when I look back on Instagram, I've looked, every time I posted like a photo of me and my husband, she would reply to the story or like, say. Did they have any connection? They'd never met until he went to go and do her kitchen. They might have met at my sister. So one of my other sisters, her little girl, they were friends at one point.

And my little niece is like seven now. So when it was her first birthday party, that girl was at the birthday. party but that was years ago so i don't think he would remember that and i do remember they had a weird encounter then really yeah she i remember the fact that has stayed with you in your head is yeah so yeah so matt accidentally knocked her little girl's sweets off the table and he was like well i'll go buy her some more which obviously you would that's fine and he went inside the pub and they were at the bar and i came out the toilet and they were flirting with each other and i pulled him up on it then and said what was that sorry i find that's so weird yeah that and i was like that was

what was it? And he was like, no, I was just buying the little girl's, like, I knocked her sweets off. I said, yeah, fair enough, you knocked her sweets over, but what was that in a little encounter? I don't know. But I've forgotten about it. Like, I was sending back to me now, it was years ago. You will, yeah. Yeah, but you start piecing things yeah. So once you, obviously, you've got his phone, you're seeing things that were the messages inappropriate that you saw? Not like sexually inappropriate, but he, she was, she said, oh, you're full of shit. You said you'd, you'd come and see me yesterday. and you did it and then you said you'd come and see me today and you haven't and then he put um don't be

like that baby um don't be like that uh then he put you know i've made time for you when i can but now he's trying to say he means to talk to her on the phone but like no yeah he's trying to pull the wall over your eyes yeah yeah so what did you then do once you have seen these messages right so i see the messages obviously once i knew i couldn't get back i was trying to i remember i was in my room and I was like, calm down so you can read them properly. I was trying to tell myself that. I came out of the chat, sent the screenshots to myself, and then I couldn't get back into the chat.

So suppose you're panicking, you don't know how long you've got? He was asleep. He was snoring on the sofa. Right. He was gone. I had as long as I would have wanted with the phone, but I couldn't get back into the chat. So then I started spiraling.

And like I said, I got really firstly. I couldn't, I can't explain it. It's like you get dehydrated. Everything is spinning. I went downstairs. I got a glass of water. drank some of the water and then I just thought no I walked into the front room and he was asleep on the sofa and I just dashed the whole like pine all over him and as soon as it the water hit him

he knew he jumped up and he grabbed me and he was just like I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I had my pyjamas on yeah yeah absolutely yeah so sorry yeah so then I was just yeah and then he started saying you know yeah and then I had obviously I had my pajamas on I ran out the front door and jumped in the car. I hid his phone in the house because I thought, I'm just going to hide his, I don't know why, but I just hid his phone in the house. Because ran to, drove to my sister's house. She only lives around the corner. And obviously, my sister knows her better than I do. So then we both got on the phone to her. And as soon as she knew about it, oh, I text her back from his phone saying,

what the hell, this is Nicole. But then I didn't see whether she texts back because obviously I couldn't get back into the chat. So when I got to my sister's house, we rang her, but she was out and her and her friend just got on the phone just started shouting at us down the phone just being disgusting yeah just yeah but then within about an hour she deleted all her social media just gone like I really yeah that's strange behavior yeah gone well she probably maybe she was worried that you were going to sort of like put her out yeah well it happens she did it a couple of years ago and I think it was her husband I don't know somebody on her side found the messages and put it everywhere on social media what she didn't have to

another man she did it with her friend's husband yeah she did it with her friend's husband and all the messages got put on our like local facebook group oh my god and the messages were explicit like they were really bad yeah the fact that she has done this before yeah that's doing it again that's why i didn't cross my mind because i knew that i knew that i'd see it on social media but i didn't really know i didn't know her then i didn't know the other girl so i just thought surely she would never do that again like and she only got married last year she'd think yeah she's happy yeah Yeah, yeah. She's obviously been forgiven.

Why would you risk it again? You know, like, she's been forgiven. Why would you risk again? I'm guessing this has worked on their house. Yeah, extension. As a married couple. Yeah, yeah. So you think that's a prime example of lepers don't change their spots.

You know, we say it all the time with the emails and everything that we get in. If someone accepts that sort of behavior, it's likely that they then do it again. Yeah, I mean, the husband was back there within two days. Really? Yeah, and he doesn't want to, yeah, apparently he's a really nice guy. But he doesn't want to. want to know anything and not only that when I put that out on social media I had so many messages from other women stories about her no so many even like a pregnant lady that was eight months

pregnant and her husband or partner had met that girl out three months ago and she only had her WhatsApp picture so she spoke to megan and Megan said no I'm single it's not like so the she's the pregnant lady full well I can't really blame her she's a single girl and then when she see my TikTok. Oh, she's married. She see the business name of her and then looked her up and then looked her up and see the same name and then see the photo and thought, oh my God, this girl's married. Oh my God. Yeah. And he's been sent all of those screenshots as well, but he doesn't want to know. He reckons, yeah, he seems. So did you reach out to him? Yeah. I got his number, I had his number. I spoke to him on that first evening. Oh, wow. On the phone. And he said that he'd had a

feeling as well. So, but now he's just, he's, I think he's just massively in denial. I think some people that's how some people cope maybe the reality's not hit him yet either i think also like we say time and time again until you're ready to leave yeah you're not going to no one's going to push you to do something and that sort of leads on to you know we saw like a lot of people were asking and sending in questions and you have mentioned before that things have happened yeah previously in your marriage what has happened that you were able to sort of of, yeah, move on from. I mean, I've never had, like, solid evidence like that.

There's been, like, liking girls on Instagram, little things, you know, like, little things, little inclins, but I've never seen it in black and white like that, like that, you know, like, that's... She's able to brush things under the carpet and you've not got evidence. Yeah, there's nothing or, yeah, just things that have been deleted. And I've never had any evidence of him actually doing something with somebody like that. They slip up at some point, don't they? Yeah.

And I think it's my... more the betrayal of like her trying to be my friend messaging me all the time. Very calculated. It's so calculated and I feel so betrayed like on both parts, you know. And like on his part, I just think how stupid. Like because I know, I know it sounds really stupid and you might think I'm being naive. But I know he does love me. I know he does.

I know. It sounds weird. It's like two things can be true at once. I know that he does love me and he's like my biggest fan and all of these other things that are great about our relationship. but I know that he's weak when it comes to women. You know, like, it's almost like, oh, something shiny and new must touch. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's the lack of respect to you, though. Yeah, massively, massively, yeah, massive lack of respect. Can I ask at what point, because I felt like I was catching up and your post came up, like, literally it must have been like yesterday or the day before. At what point were you like, fuck it, I'm sharing it on social media.

Do you know what it was? it was because she had deleted her social media and she had blocked me. She had deleted her social media and she had blocked me and he was asleep actually, he was fast asleep. So that all that went on and then he went upstairs and went fast asleep

and he was snoring and I was great. And I had nowhere to put that like I had nowhere to... So hold on, did you post the video about him cheating on you before you told him? No, no. So I found out like maybe 10 o'clock at night. Yeah.

So we were arguing, going back and forth. went to my sisters, I came back, I was telling him to leave, he wouldn't leave. And then I posted that about three o'clock in the morning. Oh, so he's literally like having like a great night of sleep. He was fast to sleep. How did these men do this? I don't understand. I feel like when we're going to go through it, they don't eat, they don't sleep.

And they have like some peaceful night. Yeah, I was literally spiraling and thinking I've got nowhere to put this frustration. And not only that, like me and my sisters have been through so much. Like I don't like to offload to them. But I know they obviously see it, but I don't like. to like get on the phone and like give them all my emotions because we've all been through enough you know and then I always think you know they probably think well we should probably take him back or whatever so I don't want to like always give them all my emotion like dump that

onto them so in that moment I just think I just felt like I had I just had nowhere to put my frustration and obviously because I do TikTok this is just the only way you know I just I don't know I just put the camera up and yeah and it just came out and what has it been like I haven't watch that back or I don't remember what I said. Yeah. What has it been like since you shared that? Really positive. Like people have been really nice to me, really positive. I even, a few hours late was thinking, should I just delete it? Should I just delete it? But a part of me was thinking no, because I have to, I can't brush this under the carpet. I have to face this head on. Do you almost feel like you putting it out there is sort of helping you hold yourself accountable?

A hundred percent, yeah, because I would try and like make excuses for him or like, you know, just brush it under the carpet I think because a lot of it is like we don't like change do we and really we just want everything to be comfortable and normal and just to feel the same and especially because like I've already lost so much in my life like the fault of like going through another loss is just sometimes just too much so but I just thought if I post it I don't know I don't really know I wasn't really thinking in that moment if I'm honest but it kind of just yeah it just went from there and what was his reaction to you posting that um It's been up and down, really. I mean, he said he only had a TikTok account just to watch what I was doing or whatever, but he reckons his deleted social media now because he was getting stressed with all of the comments on there. You know, like to see what he's done. Like, I guess that's one way of giving him a wake-up call. Yeah, yeah.

And I think in a way, it's held him to account as well. It's held a mirror up to him as well because it's a right, like your wife saying, you do this and it hurts me in this way. But when you've got, when you're reading loads of comments from other people saying, and how could he do that to you and blah blah blah like I've said so many times and I know it's hard to believe

but he isn't a horrible person he isn't he's done a horrible thing but he isn't a horrible person you know and it's hard to like separate the two because I think yeah he must be you must be aware of what you're doing and he keeps saying

I tried to stop it I kept telling her that's not good enough I want to be with a man who I know could be in a room full of beautiful women a hundred percent And may not actually control, yeah. Is there any men like that?

Does that exist? I mean, I'm starting to lose faith. No, I do believe there are decent men out there. I think at the end of the day, I do personally believe and it's just an opinion that if someone is truly happy and in love, they will not stray. Yeah, I agree. I feel like, yeah, I think men are simple creatures. I think that sometimes if they are given the attention, I think it comes with a lack of self-worth of their own as well.

Where they're like, oh, like, I'd like a bit of validation. Yeah, it's validation. It's ego. You know, and then it just, it goes too far. And they don't have that willpower to hold back. But that is because they are solely thinking about themselves. Yeah. In the moment.

And it's a moment. They can't separate out that moment and they don't think about the future impact or consequences. Yeah, it doesn't just impact me. It impacts not just the kids, like my whole family, you know, like he's been in our lives since, you know, my sister Ellie, he's only 23. She was five when, you know, and we've lost our parents, like we've lost our mom, Ellie's lost, my other sisters have lost their dad. So they've got no parents to lose another family member is like, it doesn't just impact me and my kids. It impacts everybody.

Yeah, and I think that, I don't think a lot of people unless they've gone through it, understand that. especially when you've been with someone for that long and then you're going through a separation it is like someone has died it is yeah it's like a grief but they're still walking on this earth it's hardest to some regard yeah um yeah what

what is the relationship like at the moment are you still living together no i haven't physically seen him since that sunday morning when he left stop no where's he gone so i've got a stepson as well he's 23 and he's living with he's staying with him at the moment the kids have seen him but i've like gone out because my kids are teenagers I don't need to do the hand over so they did they hear

what happened to your kids yeah yeah yeah so did they hear from you or they just heard they heard actually what was going on they heard you know how have they been since um the boys don't seem to really be phased to be honest they're just like oh whatever sort of thing really yeah how old are they 14 okay um and ivy's very quiet she's she's she's very emotional she's just very like you know she just can't believe her dad's done that to be honest she keeps saying oh he's such an idiot but are they okay with him like are they happy to be with him see him yeah yeah fine yeah they've been out like i've stayed out a couple of nights and he's stayed at the house with the kids right so he has seen the kids but he just we just haven't seen each other because i've just

he keeps saying we need to sit down and talk but the thing is i know unless he unless he sits down to me and says look you know what happens when two people have a fling adults this is what happens I'm not stupid I'm a grown adult but the downplaying for me just frustrates me even more so he's not admitted

like they were sleeping together no he's not admitted anything physical right apart from a kiss which they always admit to don't they a kiss yeah it's always a kid

well yeah how many of our people who write in they didn't sleep together yeah they held hand yeah they held her and you know he touched her boobs

but you know like come on yeah if you're grownups If you're going to kiss, like, why wouldn't you have sex? Yeah, exactly. And I know him as a man. And I appreciate and I'm really like respect that for you.

It's like, I don't want the excuses. I want, you probably want the apology, the remorse. Actually, I'm going to hold myself accountable. I did this and I did that and I'm holding my hands up. And it's actually more frustrating and a bit like, you just want to shake them and be like, stop taking me for a mug. You've already mugged me off. Yeah. Just be fucking honest.

Yeah. Like, you've got nothing to lose. at this point. Exactly. But I feel like, and I'm not gonna say men or say people. I feel like

once they've got in their head like I've told this lie I cannot go back they will literally take it to the fucking grey. Even when you've got evidence that I had that with my ex-husband

I physically had proof of a particular thing that happened not him cheating but doing something and I was really happy that for once I had evidence and when I showed him it he was still like

I didn't do that and I was like yeah. Oh my God. You feel like you're going crazy. But you did. It's here. No, no, I didn't do that.

It's just like you may as well just bash your head against a brick wall. Yeah. So I understand why you can't be bothered to sit down and have a chat with him because he's just going to actually make you even more annoyed. He's going to make me more annoyed because I know he's just going to downplay it. And what he's going to do is just he thinks in his mind that if he tells me any more of what happened, then there's no hope. Yes, then there's no hope. Yeah.

Is there a chance that you could reconcile? I don't know I think like maybe with complete honesty I don't know and a long time I don't know lots of counselling

I think it's okay not to know as well it's scary to like I feel like I change my mind every second of the day sometimes I think you know

there's a bigger picture isn't there like because obviously I come from a broken family he comes from a broken family and it was just this like idea of the you know like

I don't have any contact with my dad and my kids have grown up without a granddad even though he's been in their life on and off they haven't had like a support from a father figure where he might pick them up from school and all of those little ideas of what I thought my future was going to be

you've got to let go of that or like you know and that's I think it's not just about cheating it's not really it's so much more than that isn't it's not just like oh my husband's kissed another woman it's like yeah it's more than that idea of like what your life would have been off you're still in like that really early shocked phase I always say like you can't make a permanent decision on a temporary emotion like you have to let the dust settle you have to

see and that's it I think like the hardest thing like putting things out there is like that fear of like being judged about what decision you make at the end of the day like you have to do what's right for you and no one else is sat in your shoes no one else has been in that marriage been in that relationship you know like knows how that feels and I think like it's an amazing thing to put out there on the end like people are living it real time with you yeah I think for for me, I think I would like to see him like maybe a separation for six months, six months to a year and see really what you're like. You know, when it gets to the summer and you're going out and you're doing all this.

If I can see that, prove to me then in them moments, then maybe. But I know, I know what he's like. I think, I feel like he'd be like, well, I've tried with you. And now, you know, something new, you know? Yeah. And that's a way, that will always be in the back of my mind. So I don't know. I think it'd be very, if I do forgive him, it's going to be very,

very difficult. It's not going to be like a... Do you feel like you'd be the sort of person, though, that wouldn't, that would hold it against him? No, because things have happened in the past. Like, you know, like, I'm not the type to bring up things. I'll be like, oh, you did this or whatever. I do... I am a very forgiving person, clearly. I'm a very forgiving person. I don't really, like, dwell on the past. I'm a very positive person. Like, if we're going to move forward, then we're going to move forward. Yeah. But then I feel like I don't want to give him that opportunity.

And then all of a sudden, I let my guard down. And what do you know? He's done it. Like, he's done something again or it's like oh it's just an Instagram it's just a like or it's just you know it's not just it's not it's hurtful no and it's disrespectful yeah yeah especially when you're repeatedly telling someone this when you do this it makes me feel like this and they down play it I mean you know

we talk about it a lot like certain red flags and for me the biggest red flag is when you voice to the person that you're meant to be with you doing this hurts me and then they do it again that means they are doing it knowingly Yeah. They are making a choice to hurt to you.

Yeah, I agree. And I feel like, you know, we can speak from experience both going through a divorce that I found the breakdown of my actual family unit and the things that I thought I was going to have in my life harder than actually getting over him. Yeah, that's true. It is that, you know, you believe that you have all these future plans in your head, the holidays that you planned on going on, you know, when your kids grow up and move out and then what you're going to do,

together once your kids are older you know you you future plan and so not only are you grieving a person but you're grieving a life that you're no longer going to have that's been taken away from you out of a choice that they made that probably was a really short term high and it and it is that frustration of like why did you have to do that honestly if you could just have not thought with your penis yeah and thought with your head is this little thing that you're doing worth everything getting fucked up. And you do almost want to like, it's frustrating because you want to wish,

like, why did you have to do that? Because now you're giving me no choice but to do what I'm doing right now. But it's letting go and accepting that you can't control what someone else does. I think the worry that I always had was if you show them that you'll accept bad behaviour, you're giving them the go-ahead to do it again.

It got to the point in our marriage or, you know, that everyone would just, Matt would be like, well, you know, that's my personality. I'm a bit flirty. I'm a bit over-friendly. Yeah. So it's got to the point where everyone just accepts it. Like, oh, Matt, that's just the way he is.

That's him, yeah. But the way he, you know, it's not acceptable. At my expense, it's not acceptable. And if it's making you feel a certain way, that's not okay. No, it's not okay. No.

But it's strange because when he did start doing the work there, three people, three of my friends, like my actual friends, said to me, are you sure that's a good idea, knowing what he's like and what she's like? really three people said it to me and I was like oh no because I thought because she was messaging me all the time so I just didn't think that she would you know also I guess at the end of the day like why should you have to be concerned about your husband going to work regardless of you know what like normal happy marry people go to work shouldn't have to sit on eggshells when their husband is working yeah yeah someone's house who's slightly attractive better minimum yeah yeah do you know what you I'll be worried about it. Yeah, but I think that it's very interesting that three of your friends

not only mentioned it because of her, but because of him. Both of them, yeah. So although you're saying, like, I know he's a good guy, he's this, he's that, the fact that your friends see him in that light. Yes, yeah. Shows the type of character that he is, even before you found out that he had cheated. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, definitely. That must highlight, like, how he is perceived externally as well as. A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah. And I think I'd kind of like turn a blind eye to that or I just pretend that that's not a thing. But obviously I know, I know it is. I know how everybody sees him. Oh, literally, I can't tell you how bumpy my carpets were

because I buried everything. I did my fucking carpet. Like literally, like the thing is, I think for a lot of people, I'm sure they can relate. Like you said, you didn't have solid evidence. So you brushed under the carpet, brush under it, until you did. Again, like for me, there were a lot of things that I'm sure, stronger people,

would have found out that had happened in my marriage that wouldn't have stood for it. But for me, I was like, oh, I guess that's not. Like, it's a big deal, but, you know, who's happy? Who's got a perfect relationship? I convinced myself that the things that I was going through were normal. No one's got a happy relationship. You know, this is life.

You take the good with the bad and all of that. But actually, like, there are good men out there and there are happy relationships out there where you don't need to be accepting shitty behaviour. and what's he like with you now? Like, as in that, is he begging? Yeah, it's like his world has completely falling apart. He's absolutely, yeah, begging.

I'd never do this to you again. I don't want to lose you. All of the, I know I'd never look at another woman again. But I've said to him also, if you've been like this throughout our relationship, why do you want to force it and be in a relationship with someone when you're clearly looking for something else? it doesn't make sense

why you're obviously missing something but I just feel like men are just so tempted by like you said shiny things they pay them a bit of attention and I think they don't even have the intention of necessarily cheating one thing leads to another and before you know it they're stuck in this thing

and it feels good to them it's exciting and I'm not like justifying it in any way it's fucking wrong but I just, I feel like women analyze things, consequences, what will happen if this, I don't feel like men process things in the same way women do. No, no, definitely not. I mean, I have made a lot of excuses for him over the years and he has been through a lot of trauma in his life. And I think I've always, it's, every, every time this happens, it's always at this time of the year, always. Really? Always, always, without a doubt. It's like a pattern. I know, not saying he cheats

every year but he'll either like go off the rows or there'll be something that happens if like what are the other things that he has done that you have put aside just like messages from girls deleted their number then or like I found numbers and then I've put them into my phone and then seeing that it's a girl's WhatsApp picture things like that but there's no actual evidence like there's he's I've got on his phone bill yeah I've gone on his phone bill and I've found that there's been numbers that he's called and then I've put them into my phone and seeing that it's a girl's photo things like that or his phones rang and I've answered it and hello and it's a it's a or of what I've been silent you know when they do you do

do the thing yeah yeah and they go hello and you go hi who's this and then they hang up yeah things like that and then he's like oh I don't know who's rang me I'd you know but you can't listen I I genuinely get it and sometimes like hearing someone else say it I I like it makes me uncomfortable because I've been there I've sat through a phone bill I've put the numbers in my I've checked the WhatsApp pictures. That's not a nice way to live. It's not a way that we should be living. It's not a way that we should accept a person in our life

to put us through those things. You want to be with someone that makes you feel so safe and you are the only person in the world. It's almost like, I don't know if everybody likes this vulnerability, like of this pattern, this period of when we're like this. And then I'm like, he's chasing me. I don't know. Well, it's like, the thing is, that is a thing.

when people actually thrive off of like the toxic like back and forth and like fighting for it and then when it when everything's calm it's a bit boring so he needs to go and chase that fix he'll then go and get it elsewhere gets his dopamine hit oh he's been caught now I've got to fight for it like people thrive off drama if you're saying that he's got like trauma from like childhood or whatever it's not abnormal to hear that you know sometimes we get people emailing us in and they're like, I'm with a really good guy, but I'm bored. Like, I don't understand, like, why do I like going for the bad guy? Because people chase that thrill.

A healthy relationship, you're not meant to get those massive highs and lows. I mean, he has explained it to me before, like, tried to explain it to me before. Obviously, so I've got twins, and Matt is a twin. So he's an identical twin, but he lost his twin brother when they were 21. Like, he died literally in front of him in a really horrific. horrific way and so and it was in it was December 4th that he died so he does he says that sometimes he feels like life is just he has to I don't know he doesn't feel alive he needs to do something to make himself feel alive I don't know he just like a self-destruct thing like a self-destruct

thing yeah like he just goes completely off the rails thinks well every day life is just boring then we're just going to die and then you know like just I have heard him out and heard and spoke to him about it and said well you need you need to go help you need to you need to counselor like you know but he's never has and life has obviously been we've had we have three kids really young really quick really close together he's always been the provider I do get it like men have a lot of pressure I understand like he has had a lot of pressure like he he is a good provider like he gives us everything not you know we haven't got amazing life but we've got a nice comfortable life and he's always provided all of that so I do get that there's a lot of pressure so I'm not like

taking no accountability I do understand why he's he does the things that he does, but it doesn't make it okay. Yeah. And I'm still a person. I still have feelings. And I've been through trauma myself. Like,

I only lost my mum 18 months ago. Wow. And this is only my second Christmas about her. And I feel like for years, I've been excusing his behaviour because of trauma. When is it my turn? Yeah. When is it my turn for him to think,

do you know what, actually, I know what it feels like to lose a person. Mm-hmm. So I need to ground myself. But instead, you know, even I've been in a bad place. this is what he said, I've been in a bad place

and she was the only one that noticed and said to me, like, you don't seem yourself. She didn't know him from Adam. Yeah. How would she know? That he's in a bad place. Yeah. And I also feel like that in itself is throwing that in your face, like as if like you're not there for him. So because you

weren't there, I'm going to go and cheat on you. Yeah. But also if you recognise a pattern in your behaviour, like you know every year at this point of the year you'll, you tend to do things that are more out of character or yeah, or whatever. Like, take the account to and seek some help you know like because why should that be at the detriment of

something you love and care about like you should be trying to protect those people as well yeah I mean I'd say for like so obviously this year he's done this but for the last two or three years prior he's been fine and I thought oh maybe he's finally like you know he's a right at this time of the year but when the kids was younger no he'd be like I hate Christmas he wouldn't get involved or any of it he's I think his brother was buried on the 23rd or the 24th yeah so December is He's always been, he's been an absolute nightmare. Like, especially when the kids were younger.

See, we had our kids quite young. So what was we like, 25, 26, and he'd be out, and I'd be chasing after him, and I'd have all the free kids. And it was always just like, and then the Christmas would be over, and it would just turn back into a normal person again. And I think, I can't wait for this to be. Every year, like that time of the year, I'd think, I just can't wait for this to be over. And then the summer, we've never, ever, it sounds crazy, we've never had a problem in

the summer. We've always been fine. and then it gets to like this time of the year and that's when the problem's up I guess the thing is it's like I think people listening will probably be like

you deserve to have a good relationship all year round yes I mean it's like you know like summer's good so let's stick around for summer but it is easy when you're in those relationships to be like it's fine

I know I've just got to get through this bit and then I'll be back to being fine and I think so many people cling on to things like that if I could just get through to here I know I'm going to be okay but then that's not a way to live. Yeah, but I think he does see a change in me because obviously I lost my mum

and I think when you do lose someone, it changes everything. Like my mum was only 62 when she died and she died 18 months ago of cancer and she was an amazing, like she was hilarious, so funny, like beautiful, really glamorous, had so much to live for

and seeing her pass away like really quickly like that and deteriorate and then just go changed me. Like I feel like now, no, I'm not taking any shit. This is my... I've, put up with this because you know of your feelings and your trauma this is my life this is my

life and this is oh you're not doing that to me like I refuse to let him take away my happiness in life or like my success or you know like he even tried to blame it on TikTok you know since you've been doing all this TikTok stuff because I haven't been doing it since July you know you've changed as a person you've changed as a person maybe it's gone to your head you've been neglecting me no that's not true at all that that winds me up yeah I I also think that like, I don't know, maybe I shouldn't say that, but I feel like a lot of men seem to have an issue

with women in social media. Yeah. Do you feel like you've had that with dating? I don't know. I just, yeah, I tell people, like, in dating what I do and they'll, like, literally ghost me or, like, they have issues about. Do you think you're all, like, a big character, and I feel like... I don't know how people can handle it.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's good. I like it. I think it filters out the people who can't. Yeah, I mean, on one sense, he's like my biggest supporter, like, go do it, you know, when I've been, when I went to the premiere a couple of weeks ago, he was like, mingle, talk to people, like, you know, really network with people. He could be really great on that sense, but then I feel like, because he's losing control now, he's just using anything, like, to be like, it's because of this, you know, it's just, it's because of this or, yeah. Well, he's just completely gaslighting you because it, you know, it's almost like turning it around and almost justifying his behaviour. because of you.

Yeah. So not only is he happy to hurt you, but then he wants to blame it on you as well. I think it's very common though. Yeah. Yeah. And the power dynamics has changed because like I've said,

when the kids was younger, he is the provider. So if anything like this happened, I remember feeling like so helpless and so like, even if he is doing something, what the hell am I going to do? Where am I going to go?

What are you to take free kids and go where? You know, like so many women must feel like that as well. Yeah. Even if you do have solid evidence that they're doing something, what are you going to do? like where are you going to go if everything's you know they pay for everything the house is in their name everything really realistically people go go pack his bags and make him leave or pack

your bags and leave unless you've got really strong family support or you come from like a wealthy background where are these women going and they say they want to take their kids and take them into a hostel you know you know what the situation is like yeah you know it's hard it's very hard And I think men, when you're in that situation, even if they don't intentionally do it, they know that you're not going anywhere. Yeah, they've got that control. They know you're not.

But now I'm in a different position where he probably thinks, well, if she wants to, she really can. You know, like it's different. The tables have turned. If I want to, I will. And how do you feel like with, obviously it's quite different because our kids are really young. Yeah.

You having older children and really understanding, like, everything that's going on. do you feel like you almost want to show them if someone disrespects you this way it's almost like you want to show them an example of like I wouldn't want you guys

settling for this sort of behaviour so I'm not going to because I feel like you know a lot of people say when they stay for the kids I want to stay for the kids they don't want a broken home and you know I don't think many people go out their way to have kids

and then plan to do it on their own like I absolutely didn't you know I was very much like I married like like divorce isn't an option for me until I grew the strength to realize, well, actually, this isn't a life for me. I don't want my kids thinking that this relationship is okay. I don't want to set an example of this is a sort of relationship

that you should aspire to and look for when you grow up. With your kids being older, do you feel like it's easier or harder with the age that they're at compared to being younger? I would say it's easier and harder. Different battles, yeah, it's different. Because obviously if they were younger, they wouldn't have an opinion. but then obviously it could do them

more long-term damage I don't know because obviously they might see things and hear things and not know how to process Yeah they're like emotional maturity They don't understand

what's going on Like I can remember my parents I was only four when my parents split up and my perception of that Even I think it's only changed now That I'm an adult Even in the last like three or four years I've started to think about it

And think Oh for years like I always thought It was my mum's fault You know like I always think I always just think Well why did she do that Why did she leave my dad? but now I can understand it

but it took me all them years to get to that point to think right I understand where she was coming from but all these years later you know so then obviously now they're teenagers they can see and hear but they've seen all the messages themselves so they're even going dad stop lying we can read we're not stupid we can read

you know we're not stupid we can see what it says so they can I suppose they've got their own minds they can make their own decisions they can you know but I guess them seeing how hurt you are by it would hopefully feel like I think Ivy just thinks oh dad why did you do that she loves her dad yeah cool you know it's her dad she loves him

and the boys I don't really know like Carter's just yeah he's like mom you should marry like a millionaire or billionaire he's got a good idea he's just thinking like oh yeah maybe maybe mum will marry someone really rich but he's just thinking like that and Paris is just in his own world

Do you think that, like, do they have an opinion on what you should or shouldn't be doing? Like, are they like, don't go back, do go back, like, give him a chance, don't, like, have they... Maybe's a little bit like, oh, he's sorry, or, I don't think, you know, I don't think they did meet up. And she's saying, you know, she's a bit like that, like, yeah, she's a bit... Scared of change. Yeah, yeah. And also, like, you said, like, it's her dad. Like, she does you both and, like, what kid doesn't want, like, their parents to get back together, you know, have that sort of, like, happy home.

Yeah. And then I feel like they do this and then it's got the decision's been put on to me. Do you get what I mean? So like if I decide. It's that pressure. If I decide not to be with him, then it's like I'm the one breaking up the family. Even though you've heard more. But I hope you know that that's not the case. I know it's not the case. But like that's the pressure that is put because he's saying to me, you know I want to, I want to be with you forever. I want to grow old with you. I want to have grandchildren with you. You know, you know all of this. I want you. I've said it a million times. Yes, but it doesn't excuse what you did. You wanted me and you. You wanted me. And you. And you. You wanted me. And you. And you. You wanted me. And you. And you. And you. And you. And you. And you. And you. And you. wanted to feel on the side. Yeah, your actions don't match your words. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And would you ever feel like you would have those sort of conversations with your kids to sort of explain, like, although it's, it seems like it's my choice, like he's taking the choice away from us. Yeah, I think I've kind of said that to them. Yeah, I have said that to them. Like I said, when I, on that Sunday, I said to Ivy, I said, either you do not, I could not be with your dad and I can't.

She was like, yeah, I know, I know. But, you know, like. And I understand why that must be hard for you. I mean, even now, I sometimes have my kids being like, oh, I wish you. Daddy still live together. I'm not going to obviously explain why that's not going to happen. Your dad's. But, yeah, I can probably see the pros and cons for different ages with kids.

But, you know, we've said time and time again, I would never advocate for staying for the kids because I don't actually think it brings. Especially I also think it doesn't necessarily, like we've said it before about wanting to show kids like self-respect, like what a healthy relationship. relationship looks like look if you decide to take it back but you show them we're working together on it as a team we're both working towards the same goal i think that's a very different thing you're teaching your kids yeah i mean it would have been like the sunday we had a big row and then sunday night is there and we're watching a series together and pretending like nothing happened yeah yeah but no i think they know that i am standing my ground so if if you want to work at it then prove to me from afar yeah like i said like from afar prove to me but i just don't know i just feel like if i give him that space That's what I think. So it's his job to prove me wrong, I suppose. You also might find that within that space,

you have time to really let the dust settle. Realise you can live your life without him as well. And actually realize, oh, I've been romanticising the fuck out of this man. And that's what happened with me. Yeah. He went away for six weeks and I remember being like, I'm never going to be able to do this. And in that time, I felt like I processed everything and I was like,

wow, like I am actually okay without him. I actually think I might have the potential to be here. happier without him and by the time yeah situations changed that was me done yeah i think it took me longer but i think once you take them off that pedestal and the relationship of the pedestal because like you i was with him for 17 years so i i romanticized the fuck out of our relationship childhoods and childhoods and we ended up getting married and we've been together for so long and we've got our three kids and our like but actually once you stripped it down and i actually really thought about what did he actually do?

What did, what did he bring to the table? How did he make me feel? He never complimented me. He never, he, there were just so many things that I actually feel like the good in the relationship was me. Yeah. And actually I could bring that into a relationship with someone that's actually decent.

Yeah. Like he gave me my kids. I have no regrets. I stayed longer than I should have, but I don't regret that. Otherwise I wouldn't have had my third child. Yeah. But actually on reflection,

you do get into a habit of romanticising a partner and then once you actually let the dust settle and reflect and start doing the work on yourself. Yeah, I suppose until you've had that space. Yeah, you can't really look back and be like, okay, let me actually write a list of, you know, all the things that are good about not being with him and then you start realising, oh, actually,

there's quite a lot of reasons, like, why I shouldn't be with him. Before you know it, you've got pages and pages. You're like, I should need a new book, yeah. Yeah, but obviously you appreciate, like, it's so raw for you right now. You were in, like, two weeks, yeah. Which is the hardest bear. Wild. And, like, you're doing it.

You look amazing. I didn't know like that. Two weeks. I was like, bloated eyes. Yeah. Like, how are you actually doing? Like, you come across really, like, positive. Like, looking at your TikTok, like, no one would think that this happened two weeks ago.

Like, you seem good. Are you actually good? I think I try and keep myself busy but then obviously of a night time it's really difficult. I feel like I go to sleep really sad like crying and then I wake up and I just feel rage again.

It's really weird. Do you feel like you're sleeping okay? No, I don't sleep. I literally probably fall asleep about two, three o'clock in the morning and then have to get up half six for the kids to take them to school so I have about three hours sleep a night

but I go to sleep really sad and then I wake up and I just think the rage comes over me again but it's going back to the like not getting the full truth like why are you dragging this on just tell me what what actually went on you know it's also a massive part of betrayal you go through those different stages of feeling really sad really angry like yeah it's so up and down it's like the grief cycle yeah we say it and it's not linear and you know sometimes you'll be crying being like oh like i want him

back and the next minute you're like he's vile yeah cannot bear him get away from me yeah but i think that you're also probably at that bargaining stage where we're were a bit like, oh, maybe that did happen, or maybe it didn't, and maybe there was a part that I incorporated to make him do that. And then the thing is, I think we searched so much for, like, the proof and the closure. And, like, I never got that in the end. And I got closure from myself, realizing that actually the way he made me feel, regardless of what he did, was unacceptable.

Why did I want to look at his phone? Why did I look through his work bag? Regardless of what I found and what those things, I found what he was doing with them. he was doing something that he shouldn't have been doing. Yeah. And the proof no longer mattered. Like, I'm talking, I hired private investigators. Like, well, I looked into it.

It was getting very pricey. I've done it for you. I love things. I did certain things that I can't mention because it's illegal. But, like, you know, you're just so desperate for answers. And it got to a point where I was like, I'm never going to move on. I'm never going to move forward. Because what if I never get the answer?

answers because he is the sort of man that will literally lie. He will just carry on lying and I thought I can either use my energy to constantly try and get answers I probably will never get or put that energy into myself and that's when I started letting go and realising he doesn't deserve my time he doesn't deserve my energy and once I let go of that that's when I really started healing from him not the family unit still to this day we

both struggle with certain things. Christmas and doing things on your own and not having those... About like if your children got step-parents now? So my kids... I wouldn't call her a step-parent. Right. Sorry.

She... My ex-husband's got a girlfriend. Okay. So when they're with... At his, she's there. Right. So that's a new set of feelings is true, isn't it? That's like, yeah, that's very hard to navigate.

Like, what will do you? Like, just even, like, thinking about your kids with someone else who's... I mean, I was a step-parent at 22. Wow. When I met my husband, he had a four-year-old. So he was a dad at 18. Wow. That was Rocky for a couple of years.

But then I've always got along with my stepson's mom. That makes a difference. I think that, I think how that relationship starts is like, yeah, it's... Has an impact. It has an impact. The thing is, I also think that it's really normal when you, because you're so fresh, two weeks, you automatically go straight to the... What if they end up with someone else?

How am I going to cope with my kids being around her? What if he has another baby with someone else? And you start literally driving yourself mad about something that's not even happened yet, may not ever happen. By the time it happens, you probably won't even care. Don't worry about things twice. Just wait until it happens. No, no way to say that.

Don't worry about something that's not happening. No. Yeah, and there's no problem worrying about it twice. I've done it. And I think it is about taking it a day at a time. Because I remember driving myself mad thinking, oh my God, what am I going to do when he meets someone? What am I going to do when he has other kids? Or what am I going to do when they meet my kids? We've been separated nearly four years. No one's met my kids yet.

I mean, you're very lucky to. Yeah, yeah. It's like he's been with someone for over two years, but she's never met my children because I don't think he has a capacity to be in a serious enough relationship to want that. I know that's probably the minority. but at the same time I don't know I think a lot of men are unable to be on their own. A lot of men I like that Yeah and that comes down to obviously him being a twin as well

He struggles to be on his own even in the car Like not talking to someone or like He has to talk to someone all the time He doesn't like being on his own He doesn't enjoy it But I also think that not a lot of men go away Do the work and they're like I'm going to sit in this uncomfortable space

Learn to heal etc etc Do the work No no they just go and seek validation elsewhere, get that ego stress. They distract themselves. They distract themselves. That's exactly what he needs to prove to me. Like, he does need to do the work.

Even if it's not for me and our relationship and our marriage, for himself, for the kids. And really for himself, if he's ever going to have a healthy relationship either with me or someone else, he really does need to sit in them uncomfortable. Yeah.

Situations, yeah, absolutely. He needs to have therapy. He needs to sit on his own. He needs to get used to his own company. Yeah. For himself. because yeah it's just

But what you need to make sure you do is rather than hoping that he does that you need to do it Yeah I mean I think I do that anyway Like I love being on my own Yeah I think that's really good I can go for dinner on my own

Yeah He knows this about me Yeah So maybe he's probably That's probably way He feels a bit threatened Because I could go travelling on my own I'm not bothered

I'd go on holiday on my own I meet people You know And I think that is one of the most like emasculating things for a man is knowing that you could be okay without them it's knowing like I feel like times have shifted a lot like throw it back like 20 years like men relised so heavily on men yeah and now like we have so many more opportunities like women can make careers for themselves women can fend for themselves if if they want to yeah

and I think so many men are like fuck like she shouldn't need me for everything like she'd do it on her own And I think that's scary. I think, yeah, how things are now, we've said before. Like, women bring so much to the table now that men need to fucking up their game because we don't need them. No, that literally, you know what I mean? So I think, although you want him to prove himself in however long,

but I also think you need to prove to yourself that you don't need anyone and he needs to add value to the life that you've got, rather than just... Anxiety. Rather than, oh, he's done the work so he can come back. It's no, no, no, no, actually, like, lift my life rather than just, like, you can slot back in where you are. Now, I've actually done work on myself. I'm happy in this.

I'm happy in that. What are you doing to elevate it? Absolutely. Because if you're not elevating it, then go and carry on doing the work, man. Yeah, yeah. It's so true, isn't it? And I do think it goes back to, like, we got together very young and all of the trauma that we both probably had, you know, like, I lived, I moved out when I was, like, 17. Never really had, obviously I was really close with my mum, but I had quite a difficult upbringing.

Never really had like a strong father figure. So as soon as like Matt was there to take away all of that, you know, like he was my security blanket. Yeah. You know, like, and I feel like he obviously had been through trauma as well. So I feel when you've both been through trauma, you've kind of like trauma bonded together. I understand that. Yeah, you've been through so much. And we have been through so much in our marriage.

Of course. Like I said on my TikTok the other day, I'm sure in our like 18 year and relationship, we've probably had like every East Ender storyline going. You know, like we've been through grief, premature babies, you know, business stress, everything that you can possibly go through as a couple we have been through. And we've always sort of stuck together and, you know, but I do think it does come with trauma from your past childhood, everything. Yeah.

And then when you get with somebody that young and you don't come from a secure background, you don't realize it because I always used to think, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm, a strong person, I don't think I've, I don't think all that trauma that I had when I was young has affected me, but it takes so long to come out and then you think, oh my God, and that's probably the reason why I have put up with so much, because when you don't have a strong family unit to go back to, any family or any form of love is, that's, I'll accept that, I'll take that, you know, like, I haven't had it previously, so any form of love or like security that I can get, hold on to it. I'll hold on to it. Yeah, I understand that.

I also think that when you get together with someone at such young age, you're not to know what it is that you want in a partner, so you don't even know yourself. I didn't know what I wanted from a partner until my marriage ended. Because I feel like I was so young, you just go from one thing to it. You go on dates, yeah, it's nice, like, whatever, like you get engaged, blah, blah, blah. And it wasn't too afterwards. I was like, hang on, like, what are my values?

Yeah, I didn't know what I learned any of my big values. Like, it had no hope. But I don't know These are things that I feel like Should be taught in schools You need to figure out what's important to you When you go in relationships Find someone that aligns with like

Do you know what I mean? It's mad It's quite basic stuff but Like I look back now Like let's actually learn about fucking like red flags I mean you need to learn a bit more Yeah my geography is horrendous That is so true

I think the younger generation Are much better at it aren't they Because they go on so many dates No but I also feel like social media as much as people sometimes slate it and don't get me wrong there's things about social media that I worry about for my kids

that I loved that we didn't have phones and social media and scrolling and you just went outside and rode your bike but there are things that I know I've learned massively through social media and the things that you learn about relationships and what you should accept and self-worth and you know all these people like

professionals that are talking about heartbreak and how you do the work and how you communicate. Yeah I think that there is definitely a positive side to that on social media that I think kids are having access to that we didn't have and what books you should read and I didn't know any of that like I met my my ex-husband we went out when we were 16th he was the biggest red flag he was a walking flag literally he was bright fucking red and I literally like clung on to that

red was your favourite colour right apparently I had no idea and I just think like if I knew what I knew now I wouldn't have given him the fucking time of day but that That's changed you as a person made you. Absolutely. Like no regrets. I've got to have my kids. But I just think now,

like even the knowledge that I've got that I will teach my kids. Like, my daughter won't ever be dating a red flag. Like he's got no fucking hope of getting anywhere near her. Yeah. So I feel like it is also like learn,

like these experience are lessons. Like everything is a lesson. As long as you like learn from it. So you come to a crossroad, don't you? In every part of your life. Like you come to a crossroad like to, and then it changes everything. Yeah.

You're never going to be put through. something you can't get through like it's sent to you for a reason it's meant to like propel your growth or change you as a person like that's genuinely how I view like everything where you're like shit how am I going to overcome this and I feel like you do you always do and it check but it changes you and I think like it's exciting yeah I think it's taking the good out of it like what you're going through is shit like no one can like mask that like breakups are horrible I wouldn't wish it on anyone like heartbreak divorce horrible but there is something also quite profound about going through a breakup like you do become a version of

yourself that you've never been that that wouldn't have happened without that heartbreak and I feel like it it changes you for the better yeah I feel like you don't change or get better through having things easy no you know yeah yeah and I actually think that we've always said like looking back on what we were like as people before our divorce, like I don't recognize that person now. Like I want to give her a hug. Like she was broken, insecure, had no self-worth. I'm grateful now looking back what I went through

because it's turned me into who I am now. Like we wouldn't have this podcast. Like the people that we help. So I feel like what you're doing and sharing is helping so many people. So although you say you're, you know, you're going to bed, you're sad, you're crying. Like you're showing people that, whatever they're going through, they're not alone and being able to...

It's so lonely, isn't it? I can only imagine. So many messages. And some of the stories, I'm just like, I think, oh my God, someone's always got it worse. Yeah, always. Someone's always had, you know, some of the stories that I've been told, I'm just like, wow. But it validates, because I remember, like, going through it, and it's why I reached out to Tash, because you feel like you're the only person in the world, like, no one else can understand this pain. And I think by putting it out there, like, so many people are like, yeah, like, I fucking get it. Like, and it, I think,

That's why we do. It's that comfort of not knowing it's just you. Yeah. I think however horrible it is knowing that other people are going through it, there is a comfort knowing that people understand. But also seeing other people who've got through it, they've got through the shit bit and they're like, yeah, they've leveled up. Does you know what I mean?

Yeah, it gives you hope. Yeah, there's always hope. Absolutely. There's always hope. We always end our episode with the affirmation of the week. So we wanted you to give our listeners something that they can take away from today or any advice or just something. that will make them feel positive.

Okay. I would say, don't worry about like how old you are or like an age thing because life can change at any moment. Like for me, I did not want to turn 40. I can't explain to you. I did not want to turn 40. I didn't want my sister to post about it.

I didn't want anyone to know about it. I just kind of just wanted to, and I just thought my life was just going to, I don't know what I thought. I just thought maybe I had to have a short haircut. I did. I was thinking, do I need to start shopping somewhere else? like don't need to change my fashion and I turn 40 and my life just is so ironic but I turn

40 and then I started posting on TikTok and my life is even though I'm going for all of this at the moment my life has just like begun and took taking a whole new turn so it can change at any point even if you're like 50 60 at any point whilst you're still alive live you're still breathing just just live I love that thank you so much for us been so lovely having you Guys, if you do not follow Nicole, your TikTok is Nicole. Nicole, is this me? Yes, love it. Make sure you go and follow her.

Thank you so much. Bye.