Not As We Planned - Why So Many Boys Are Struggling Today & What Parents Can Do with Raising Boys 2 Men

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Boys today are facing challenges that previous generations never had to navigate, but are we raising them in the right way?This week, we’re joined by Raising Boys 2 Men for an honest conversation about why so many boys are struggling, the impact of modern parenting, social media, positive male role models, and what parents can do to raise confident, emotionally resilient young men. We also discuss the mistakes we see too often, the conversations families avoid, and why the way we support boys today will shape the men they become tomorrow.Whether you’re raising sons, working with young people, or simply want to better understand the challenges boys face today, this is a conversation every parent should hear.Watch the podcast on YouTubeGet a weekly BONUS episode on Patreon:Join Our CommunityInstagramTikTok Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys. Hi, you're listening to Not As We planned. So get ready for honest, raw, unfiltered, unhinged story where we share our advice, opinion and talk about all the shit that people avoid discussing. We want to point out we are not qualified professionals, although I feel the high am one. And what we say is the advice we would give to our besties. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Not As We've found. We have a really exciting one for you today because we have another man on our sofa. He is someone that we actually have wanted. for a long time. We're going to be talking all things co-parenting, putting the kids first, and maybe a bit of dating as well. So we think you're going to enjoy this one. So let's get him on.

Guys, we are so excited. We actually have a man who is actually in real life over six foot. And he hasn't lied about his high. He hasn't. Green flag. In the house. We've got Aaron. Welcome to the very pink studio.

Our second male guest ever. Second. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry about that. No, no, I'm out. Wait, did I give the impression that? You're like, oh, second.

We had to test it out first. Okay. Yeah, and now, you know. So that was like the warm-up. Yeah. Respectfully. Yeah, and this is like the real deal now. Okay, I'm ready.

Thank you for coming. No, thank you for having. You have been on our hit list. That's probably the wrong word. For a while, just because obviously a lot of our listeners are female and we often hear things from a female perspective and a lot of us co-parent maybe with someone, who we doesn't always work the best with

and it's just really... It's a polite we've seen it. Yeah, yeah. We're so polite on such a show. Otherwise we'd be cancelled. But it's just really nice to have someone in who I think can offer a very different perspective, someone who has obviously been,

from what I've followed of you, reflective of your journey as a co-parent and made some adaptations which we're going to get into. I think what also is really nice and what drew me to your page for anyone that doesn't follow you. your account is raising boys, two men, number two. I really like how you almost are an advocate for women.

Like it's quite rare to come across a page where a man is sort of, you know, coming from a point of view of respecting women do this and they should be respected for this. And I just don't see it a lot. And I think that that's probably why maybe majority of your followers was, would you say they're female?

It's probably, it used to be like an 85, 15 split. Yeah. It's probably now 64 years. Oh, really? Yeah. Do you know what? I guess it's maybe like men actually coming across your page and hopefully learning from what you were sharing because I feel like we need more of that.

Yeah. And I guess also saying like a man who's like, I don't know how to do I think about it's like really insensitive. But like like a manly man who's like not afraid to talk about. Do you know what I mean? You're not like, oh God, I just need. What, hiding away from, like, emotions and being deep and vulnerable. It's refreshing. It is refreshing.

Accountability. That's what we want. That's what we want. Can you give everyone maybe like a bit of overview of what your page is about, what you've been through, where you're at now and what it is that you share? Okay, so the page, I would say it's a very child focused. I know you said about supporting moms and stuff like that. I look at it as more placing the child.

at the forefront and I think a lot of the times we struggle men and women struggle to do that especially when emotions are so high yeah and I think that's what I try and advocate for and the page started it was originally a fitness page really so was mine seriously yeah now look vital of course you guys can start lunging I'm not here for that got you on the back because I was um I was a personal trainer um and I was like right let me just have a fitness page I was doing that and I went on a Friends podcast and it just ended up being a conversation about my upbringing, which I wasn't expecting. So I spoke about being raised by a single mom. And from that, so many people loved what was said and wanted to hear more. So it kind of then just organically went down this path.

It was almost like, okay, if that's what the audience wants. Let me provide that. And I think being raised by a single mom and that story in itself gives me the ump. to want other men to do better than my dad did. What did that look like for you being raised by a single man? So I always say it, and it might be a bad way of saying it. I'm the result of my dad stepping out of a relationship and having me. He then went back into that relationship. So my sister, her birthday is a day before mine, but she's a year older.

Okay. So if you can imagine, if I do the timeline, he had my sister three months later cheated with my mom. Got you. I understand. And then I was the result of that. And then the council house people, right? So when I was about three, we got housed on the same state as them.

Wow. So I grew up to the age of nine, me and my mum in one part of the state, my dad and his family and another. And I wasn't claimed. So you didn't have a relationship with your dad. My dad would pop and see me, but he didn't bring the family. together. He didn't. There's been none of that. We left the estate when I was nine and my dad came to see me at the new estate and I think he was just happy. You know what? They're out. So he came to see me and he took him to KFC. I'll never forget. It took me to KFC and starts feeding

me these lines of you know what, sorry for how things have been. They're going to be better. I'm going to do better. So on and so forth. And I'm happy because I'm getting chicken and chips. My dad's there. I'm getting fed all of this. I didn't see him again until I was. 16. Wow. Yeah. And do you have a relationship with him now? I haven't seen him for 11 years and that was just by bumping into him in Sainsbury's. And is that out of choice of yours or he's not really ever? It's more it's not on me to make the effort. It's never it should never have been on me to make the effort. When I saw him 11 years ago we was we was in Sainsbury's and I was with my kids. So that's the only time they've met him. Wow. So I was with my kids and and my mom. So we're in Saints with he walks past me so I shout out his name because I

don't call him dad. I'll just shout out his name. He stopped. I went over and I said, how are you doing? I said, you know what? Your grandkids are over there. If you want to come and say hello, come and say hello. So he came over and my mom's face was, she was fuming, I can tell. Came over, said hello. Tyler was like one or two at the time. So I was like, boys, this is your granddad. Tyler was like, granddad. He has no idea. He has no idea. we left. We then went to Toys R Us. He ended up being in Toys Ross.

And he said to my kids, get whatever you want. Yeah? It's on me. They chose the cheapest gift. I was so. I was fuming. I was fuming. I was that boy, this is an opportunity.

And then after that, I remember him saying to me, as he got into the car, you know where I am. And I just thought to myself. No, no, I agree. There's no need. So I think that seeing what he did, he didn't. I didn't support financially. I remember actually the last time I spoke to him, that properly before that was like a year before that.

And he said to me, child maintenance have contacted him. And this is a grown man because he was always off the system. My dad never had a job. One of those. So he was off the system. Finally purchased the house, so now you're on record.

They send him a letter saying you owe, I think it was like 20 or 30 grand in child meeting. But that was never for my mom. That just goes back to the government. Oh wow. I didn't know that was a thing. My mum, that's insane. Because I think how the government look at it is we've been supporting your child's

mum through benefits or whatever. Therefore you owe us. Okay. So yeah, so we never, my mum never got any financial help. So seeing the struggles that she went through, it's pushed me to want better for other men and women out there. And what's your situation for anyone that doesn't know in regards to like your kids, your co-parenting?

Two children. two different women, not with neither of them. I've got one son who turns 19 in like two weeks, another son who turns 13 on Sunday. Oh, wow. Okay, fine. So they're that bit older, which I think is obviously, our kids are so young,

so I think it's also really, I've got five, eight and eight. And I've got seven and four. Wait, five, eight and eight? Yeah. I've got twins. Oh, okay. You were like, oh my God, how did you do that?

Two men, all from the same dad. They were in my tummy at the same time. So yeah, I think it's also really interesting to speak to someone. Because obviously with those ages, especially you're nearly 19 year old. Yeah. I guess anything, even if you have a, you know, a child court order or anything like that, it goes out the window once they're, is it 18? Well, even with child maintenance, a lot of people think child maintenance stops at 18.

if your son or daughter is in kind of like extended education, it can go up till they're 21. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. So we have had loads of questions come in. So get ready because... Get ready.

No, they're good. They're all kind. They're all kind. Yeah. No appropriate ones. Okay. So we've got in. Are you starting off easy?

Yeah. Okay. So it's going to get... We're going to start off light and then we want to... We're going to say the dating stuff at the end. Okay. I'm going to go in. I'm in your hands, ladies.

Okay, so we've got here. What was your co-parenting relationship like at the start of your separation? And how and why did it change and what does it look like now? It was terrible at the start. It was more, when I say the start, I'm talking about my oldest. So we'd only been together for about just under a year. Okay. And I always say the relationship wasn't great at that point.

and then pregnancy happened. So it was kind of like, all right, we now need to figure out how this is going to work. And I wasn't mature enough. I always say this. As men, our bodies tell us when we're able to have kids, but our minds tell us when we're ready to be a father. And for some of us, our minds,

just because we can have kids, doesn't mean we're ready to be a father. And I wasn't ready. So we broke up pretty much around. around the time he was born. And because of that, I started to behave in a bit of an erratic way because fear started to lead my emotions, fear of maybe another man coming into the,

even though it just broke up in my head, you're gonna get with another man, another man's gonna be around my child, this is gonna happen, that's gonna happen. You're telling me I have to pay money every month, I don't wanna do that, I shouldn't have to do that. So yeah, it was very sporadic and yeah, just messy. And how, what did that?

look like as time went on, like, when did you hit a point where you were like, this, this isn't, this can't continue this way? I think I always say this. My son's mom put boundaries in place, which I wasn't even aware she'd done at the time, because I always say this, boundaries don't need to be announced. I think a lot of people, this is what I'm doing. You don't need to announce your boundaries. You just need to stick to them. Eventually someone will figure out what's going on. So we would argue a lot and I would call her phone, call her phone, call her phone, at some point, she stopped answering. And then I realized she's not actually answered.

She'll respond to messages, but she's no longer answering the phone. All right, cool, I guess I can, I'm only just going to message because me calling the phone's irritating me now because I know she's not answering. And then I would ask personal questions by messages and she wasn't answering those, but she'd answer questions in relation to my son. So then I started to figure out, okay. Sounds like a queen. You should get around the board.

So I was like, okay, so this is how it is. And I think even in terms of picking up my son, it got to a point where she didn't want me coming to the house anymore. And not because we was arguing at the house, she just didn't want to have to deal with me. So she would take my son to her mums. I would then collect him from her mums. And at the time, I was like,

why am I having to do this? I shouldn't have to do this. But it never stopped me from seeing my son. And I think a lot of people need to understand that. When it comes to boundaries, you have to ask yourself, does this stop me or prevent me from seeing my child? or do I just not like this? There's two different things.

I shouldn't have to do that. You shouldn't have to, but does it stop you? Because a lot of men will say she's stopping me from seeing my kids. She's not stopping you. She's just put a boundary in place. And if you really want to see your child, that boundary will be nothing. So yeah. So it was just, it kind of got to that point where it's like,

what are we doing here? Okay, I'm seeing my son, my relationship with my son is great. It doesn't really matter what she's doing. This is the thing that's important. and I think just from there, having good men around me as well. I always say that, to be fair, as I got older, I started to have more conversations with men. I came across older men.

My circle started to change. That changed my mindset, my outlook. So I think just gradually maturity took place. And do you think that from having that relationship and improving it with your elder son's mom, was your co-parenting relationship with your, younger son's mom, always. Yeah, that's always been.

And do you think that's because you sort of knew where you went wrong at the beginning with the first one? So I think it has a lot to do with them being different as well. I always give my perspective, right? It doesn't mean I will never talk bad on my children's moms. It doesn't mean they've been perfect. I just won't reveal, okay, she did this. Yeah.

That doesn't get anyone anywhere. You can learn from my mistakes. It doesn't matter what someone else has done. So I think it was my, My youngest son's mom, very different. Those women are not the same at all. And her family are very different. So I've got a good relationship with her mom, her dad.

My son's got a stepdad now. So it just looks different. So I think it was easier as well. But there was that part of I'm older now. I've learned a lot more. I've also got an older son who's watching how this now pans out. So yeah, I just wasn't going to go through that again. And what's your relationship like with both of them now?

Youngest mom, me and her great relationship. Like we took Tyler got dent, Tyler got braces two days ago. So we both went to that because that's what he wanted. He wanted us both there. And but I gave him the option. We said, who do you like, do you want mom and dad there? Do you want just dad there? Mum there.

And he said, I'd love you both there. But I think it's important that you give you a child the opportunity to say, actually, I don't want dad there. because, you know, dad's a bit too strict or he's going to get on me a bit too much. And for me to not take that personally, I think a lot of the times we take things personally where we should just be focused on,

what does the child want? Because he's going to be anxious, he's going to be worried, he's overthinking as it is. He might just want his mom there to cuddle him and make him feel a certain way. He might not want dad there. Yeah.

But the moment I make it about me, it's not fair on him. How did you stop? Like, I think it's really easy when you're figuring out like the co-parent relationship, when something comes back that isn't maybe quite what you'd want, how did you like start removing, I guess, like that egotistic part of taking things, like, personally, because I think we get a lot of people who probably feel.

I think it's more maybe people struggle to remove the emotion out of, you know, a co-parenting relationship. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're going by how it's made you feel. Yeah. And I met a lady, I was out yesterday. I just went for something to eat and this lady came up to me in the street and she said, oh my God, can I talk to you about my son? My son's being stopped from seeing his child,

the child's two weeks old, so on and so forth. And she's getting teary and I said, she goes, what can you advise? And I said that he doesn't lead with his emotion. Said, in this time he's going to be so angry, so annoyed. And she was like, yeah, he is.

And she said to me, when your emotions are high, your wisdom is low. And I was like, that's so, That's so powerful. Yeah. And it's so true. When all of us are heightened with our emotions,

we're not thinking about the child. We're just, this is how it's made me feel. I now need to react based on how I feel. And that's when we just lose sight of what this is all about. Like logic goes out the window really. 100%. Yeah.

So what made you like, was it like the experience of growing up with a single mom that made you more like, the way you do talk about things on your Instagram page, you're very, you're very good at articulating. This is probably how. the mother of my child feels like things with like the dating yeah how did you like get to

that point you know what it is as a man reflecting back again you look at things differently therapy helped a lot as well going to therapy cream black yeah no i i think it i think it's great that you say that because i think you know a lot of the subjects that we talk about so many things are such a taboo and i don't think men talk enough about their feelings so i think that putting out there men go into therapy like it's not a bad thing like kali and i've always said like if we you know went on the dating outs and got talking and someone was like yeah right go to therapy i'd be like i like an aphrodisi yeah yeah so it's good that therapy helped you know what it is i know there's that narrative that men don't really talk and i always say this men talk that we talk a lot

we go into a barbershop men are talking men talk about women we talk about football wrestling food gym we talk we don't necessarily process Okay. So what I mean by that is we're feeling a certain way and we're not sure how we're feeling. We're not sure why we're feeling like this. So we can't even understand how we're feeling. So therefore we can't even communicate it. We can't talk to the other guys about it because we don't understand it ourselves.

And with the boy, I'm mentoring some young boys at the moment. And when I speak to them about emotions, they only ever list like free emotions, happy, sad, angry. So if everything you're feeling falls into those categories, you're never really going to be able to express. yourself properly because when you're anxious, you're going to look at that as anger. When you're feeling a bit down or sad, anger. Everything becomes anger. So I think it's about us as men understanding what kind of emotions are out there and what they feel like and what they mean and normalising that.

I think that would help a lot. So do you think it is the therapy that helped you kind of gain that perspective of how women maybe feel in that co-parenting situation? Yeah, how to process your own feeling. You talk a lot about like a woman's point of you. And, you know, if you're doing this, well, that's going to make the mum feel a certain way. Yeah, I think having conversations as I grew in my parenting journey

and being able to also have men that said, think about it this way or think about it that way. It just then changes your, I don't think it's difficult, right? I just think you have to focus on it. Like, I don't think it's difficult to look at something and say, actually, maybe let me look at it from a certain. but when we just focus on me, me, me, me, me, when nothing else matters. Yeah.

So I think it was more as I grew, just being able to think, okay, you know what, my dad has children from different women. He didn't bring them together. He didn't support. He didn't do this. He didn't do that. I would never want my kids to feel that way about me. Therapy also made me realize I was being a parent that I wanted.

I wasn't being a parent that my children needed. So when I was younger, I wanted a dad to come around, take me football, take me to do certain things. That's what I wanted. So then I have two sons and I'm trying to push them into football. I'm trying to do this. My sons don't have no football talent. Respectfully, they've got no football talent. I'm trying to get them into football.

I'm getting frustrated. And it's like, wait a minute, they need me to show up and understand who they are. Yeah. But instead, I'm trying to parent my inner child through them and that just wasn't fair. I mean, I think that a lot of people can probably relate to that even those who don't have sons. I think that a lot of things that we do is almost trying to heal our inner child. You know, I think what's really refreshing is you grew up without a dad. And I feel like with that, it can go one of two ways.

You can either become sort of like your dad or be like, I want to do everything that he wasn't able to do. and you know I've never really spoken about it but my dad didn't have the best upbringing like his parents weren't good to him but and his brother left his kids

moved to another country never saw his son again after eight months and my dad yes he's maybe not the most emotional um you know physical touch kind of guy but blessed him

he's done what he can with the tools that he was given and I think you can either try and show up or you can sort of like go down that path of like following what you saw as a child so I think it's really refreshing to see

because I think we get a lot of people worried that like oh no is because my kid's dad does this and this or he's not present or he's gone and fucked off with someone else it's going to fuck up our kids and what do we do to make sure that it doesn't mess them up? I think it's like living proof that you can still show up as an amazing dad,

even if you didn't have one yourself. Yeah, I think a lot of women that are raising boys worry about that. Yeah. The man isn't present. Oh my gosh. Yeah. What do I need to do? And I always say, like, what you're doing alone is a lot.

To them feel like, I also need to find the right men and I need to bring my son to this and this and this. it almost takes away from what it is that you need to do as a mum and just be in that mum role. And my mum never said, you know what, right, you need to be in front of this man and I'm going to find this coach and do this and do that. Naturally, as I grew, I became around men. You just naturally will.

My mum taught me right from wrong. So my mum taught me to distinguish between what a good man is and what a bad man is. So then when I was coming across men, I was like, you know what, I want to be like him. You know what? That doesn't look quite right. My mum never felt the pressure to put me in front of men

or have certain men around me. So my barber, who's cut my hair from the age of 13, he's like an uncle to me. And that was a friend's actual uncle. So I met him that way. I met men when I got into the workplace that were older than me. I gravitated towards certain people. I think as moms, the best thing you can do

is just teach your child how to be a good human being. That's really interesting because I've got two boys. And I constantly feel like, I'm in this weird place of like being very content on my own but then I'm also like oh like they don't have that like male person really around them loads like is this going to impact them but then like in my head like that's what I'm doing as well like just trying to teach them like the basic morals of life like how to feel emotion name emotion support like when they're feeling

did you stay would you say you stayed in your relationship longer because of your kids I did she did for me no I'm quite weird. It's not weird. I think we both have very different experiences and I think we are quite different people. Was you married? Both of you married.

Both of us were married. With Carly's, something happened that almost pushed her to make that decision there and then. With mine, it was more I just like really liked to brushing things under the carpet. I was with my ex-husband for 17 years and it was pretty much all I knew. And I think when I got married to him,

I didn't really like see divorce as as an option. Yeah. And once I had my twins, although we weren't in a good place and we went on to have our third, I think for me it was never that like, oh, I really want another baby, but like should I be having it with him or leave him?

It was like he's my husband. He's their dad. Like I want more kids, let's have more. I think it wasn't until I really started checking in more with myself and realising actually the fear of being on my own became less than the fear of not having him around. So I stayed for years longer than I should have. They say that on average parents stay together five years longer in unhappy relationships or marriages for the kids. That doesn't surprise me at all. We get so many people emailing it

and being like, I'm not happy, but I want to stay for the kids. kids and we constantly go on and on every week about how for us showing showing your children a relationship that is unhealthy or toxic or you know kids are sponges like even if you're not arguing i i didn't want my kids to think that what i was settling with was what i i didn't want them to aspire to have that sort of relationship and i am we are both such advocates for like two happy homes is absolutely better than all being under the same roof and not having that. I want my kids to see what I real love looks like. But also the kids are so much happier.

Like they like Tash said like their sponges, they absorb environments. My kids were so young when we separated it and they were 18 months and three. And my elder still says to me like, mommy, I remember when you were with daddy and like you used to cry a lot. And it's like things like that and that like I just think things like that make it so worth it. And we have this fear. and I think there used to be a lot more stigma around being a single mom or a single parent

and I hold my hands up and say, not that I used to think badly of them, but I guess maybe I had like this ignorance or like I couldn't relate to it and I never thought that would be my life and here I am and God it's like the best thing I've done for myself and my children. So yeah, I think there's a...

Well, they say 42% of parents that divorce believe that their separation had a negative impact on their children's wellbeing. But when you look into it, it wasn't the separation itself. It was the conflict in the home around the time. Yeah, I was just about to say that. Or I feel like, and I'm sure you can probably agree, I feel like a lot of people think like, oh, like if we get a divorce, I'm going to fuck my kids up.

But sometimes I actually also think it's the process of the co-parenting that can also mess them up. Yeah, it's how you go about that. It's the toxic conflict afterwards. And we unfortunately get a lot of emails where the kids are being used as weapons within the co-parenting relationship. And I think that is more of a mess up than staying in the relationship and trying to, not that.

It's not the divorce or the separation that messes them up. It's what they are actually. Witness to you. Yeah. What is done in front of them. when you're together and when you're not together. They actually polled 14 to 22 year olds, right? So they've done this poll on that age group

in terms of children that had witnessed divorce. 84% of them said, I wish my parents had separated if I knew they weren't happy. Yeah. Yeah? And also it's the understanding that, I think it was like 32% of children knew that their parents, even though nothing was said, they knew our parents aren't happy.

And I think it's so important to bear that in mind. Have you ever walked into a room, right? You've gone to see your friends. You've walked into a room. Nothing's been said, but you've instantly felt like... You feel the energy. What the hell's going on? Yeah. Children are feeling that every day. And their parents are thinking, you know what? Because we're not saying anything or because we're putting on a happy face, our children won't pick it up. I think a lot of adults are, are unaware of how switched on children actually are. I don't think we give them enough credit. They know a lot more than people think. Yeah. You know, the number one thing children said, though, that I'd been through that divorce process, I wish that the parents hadn't criticised each other in front of me. So that's one of the main things that parents do during that process that children, again, are witness to.

And it's just, again, we're not thinking about how this impacts them. We're just thinking about how much I dislike the other person. Yeah. I think a lot of people guilty for that. I held my hands up. I was definitely like that at the start of my breakdown. I think I found it so hard to separate out. emotions but I don't know what it was but maybe I had an epiphany or something but I hit a point

where I was like wow they're like paying attention to this this isn't what I want them to see and like one question that's just come to my mind because I don't know if you've got any advice for this what would you advice would you give to someone who really wants to be have a positive co-parent in relationship with someone but the other co-parent isn't on the same page or hasn't got that willingness. Like what, what would you do in that situation? I'd accept that there's nothing that can be done. I think the, I think the thing that hurts the most is when you're like, if only, if only, and sometimes we're like, you know what, maybe if I do this, it would then make him want to do this. And maybe if I just, I don't know, maybe if I don't take child support or maybe if I just say to him,

you know what, just whenever you want to come and see the kids, come and see the kids. If I make his life easier, maybe that will make our relationship better, there's nothing, if that man doesn't want to show up, if that man doesn't want to work together with you, there is nothing you can do that is going to change that. And I think the more people accept that, the easier life comes. It's the acceptance, isn't it? I think that unfortunately, I think a lot of people hold on to that hope of we'll get there eventually, like let the dust settle, the co-parenting relationship will improve.

But I think it comes a point where the sooner you, accept that that person doesn't necessarily want to show up the way that you do just because you've got morals and integrity and you're putting the kids first it doesn't mean they're going to do the same like I guess at what point do you accept that this isn't co-parenting it's parallel parenting well I don't even like the term co-parenting so that that that book wasn't going to be called the co-parenting yeah awkward I don't like the name of my book I hate the name of my book so um I think the term co-parenting distracts people from what actually is meant to take place, which is parenting. Yeah.

Right. Our role is to raise our children from infancy to adulthood as best as possible, right? Creating healthy, respectable adults with as little trauma as possible. Yeah. We're not going to remove trauma. Like our children can get bullied in the playground, walk across the street, something can happen. There's going to be trauma. But in terms of the trauma, us as parents, pass on to them as little as possible, which is why

I'm always saying, if we can have therapy before becoming a person, parent, that would save a lot. But what often happens is we break up with the other parent and for some reason we think our role is now different. And I always, I use this analogy, do you remember in lockdown? Everyone was working from home. Yeah. Yeah. Your boss still expected the exact same thing from you. Log on at this time. You can leave at this time. These are your tasks. This is when I need them. The only thing that changed was your location. Wow. I'm sure what good way of looking at it.

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like that. I got a lot of love for that. And I think it's the same with COVID. I'm no longer parenting from that house. But my role as a parent, everything my child needs from me is still the same. Do you know what I think is a real shame.

Unfortunately, I think that, I mean, that analogy, fucking love it. However, I guarantee you, and I'm sure people will disagree. Men will disagree. 80% of men will not ever think that way. Because I think, unfortunately, what happens is, is the primary care.

which is predominantly the woman will actually take on even more and then the man will do what the fuck he wants when he doesn't have the kids and then... And it's like, for me, it becomes like part-time dad. Because a lot of men, unfortunately,

only parent when they physically have their child you know, it's not the check-ins or, oh, do you know what? He needs that dentist appointment. I'm going to book it. Or when's parents he? evening, maybe or but like, and I think that it's bringing that level of expectation much lower because I think unfortunately a lot of women may be full short where they think that someone is

going to show up better as a dad once you're not together. Like if they weren't great when you were together or they weren't a great partner, why are they going to suddenly have this epiphany once they're not with you and they're not living with the child? I mean, we had a question, didn't we? It was, do you believe that you can be a really good parent but a terrible co-parent? But this is what I was saying. We need to stop focusing on co-parenting. Because me and you could be co-parenting together. We could have an amazing relationship, right? You could be like, oh my, he's my best friend. Yeah? I'm a terrible dad. What's more important? You were saying that like a lot of men think that they get to go and live this other life that I feel like, like what

you said at the beginning how you didn't feel like you were ready to be a dad. I feel like some men are in that situation where they've had this like taste of another life and they're like actually this suits me really well. Like I can show up on my days and be a parent and the rest of the time like I switch off like they're not my problem cut off. But then I do also feel like I've met some dads who are like want more of a responsibility but then I guess they're being held back from that because of the other side. I guess it's so dependent on situations right. It depends. who you're dealing with, you can't tarnish everyone with the same brush, or whatever you want to say.

But yeah, I do, I think more often than not, we hear from people who, like, the man seems to, like, have his cake and, like, eat it too. I think what is frustrating is when you have men that have, you know, you've separated, they're living separately, and they think that they're showing up well for the kids, but they almost punish the mum or talk to them in a bad way, disrespect them, make their life harder. Can you really show up and be a good dad

if you were disrespectful to the primary caregiver of those children? I think that's where it's hard to, because you were saying obviously you can have a really good co-parenting relationship but be a shit dad. My question is, do you think you can be a good dad if you're fucking shit to their mom?

No. You've spoken about this. I've seen some videos. Yeah, I've done a live show last week. And the guy asked me, what makes a good dad? And I said, understanding the importance of the mum's role. And I think, I think, a lot of men don't. I think even when men hear that, they get defensive

because they're like, no, but I'm not saying that the woman is perfect. I'm not saying she's amazing. I'm not saying that you as a man can't do what she does and so on and so forth. We live in a world where we don't see the value in each other. because I could do what you do or you could do what I do, therefore I'm not important or you're not important. And I think it's understanding the actual role of a mum and her presence and her importance are vital to the well-being of your child.

So you should be protecting that woman in a sense and her role and making sure that she's in a good space in order to parent your child, especially when she's the primary parent. Yeah. So there was an argument I had once with, it was, it was with the mother of my child. And we was arguing and she said to me, when I come off this phone, I've got to go and parent the kids. Yeah? Or parent my child.

You don't. And it was like, damn. It's so true. I can argue with you on the phone and then I can just go gym. Yeah. You've then got to turn around and cook dinner. You've got to go and do this and do that. And I'm making your life more difficult.

I'm bringing you down. That energy is then going on to my child. my child might even be seeing you cry meanwhile I get to just walk out the house and go and do whatever I need to do and it's refreshing that you had that thought and I think what is so frustrating for so many of us is

and this actually goes both ways I guess when you're so desperate to have a healthy co-parenting relationship but accepting that it's not just up to you you can only deal with the tools that you have in front of you and the person that you're co-parenting with you can't choose how they show up.

You can't choose whether they put the kids first. It's even like little things like when you end up putting a child care arrangement in place and it's Christmases are going to be alternated. Yeah, that's what I've got. And then Christmas comes and the kids want to be with their mom. But the dad is. Yeah, and the dad is too proud.

It's my year and it's like sometimes you just want to be like, wish you could just listen to the child because for me it's like, it's their Christmas, not your kids. Christmas. Where does that line, let me throw that at you, where would that line be drawn? And what I mean by that is say every year your children wanted to spend Christmas with their dad.

I kind of see your point. And I get that. I think kids who are quite young as well, especially like say, for example, they are with the mother who is primary caregiver and they have like, I don't want to say a stronger relationship, but they have that, they feel safe there. They've got that more familiarity. Yes, they're home. And like I put myself in my kid's position.

I know, and I've been in that situation where they want to spend every birthday, they want to spend every Christmas with me. However, I actually, as much as like I want that, like I would love that, at this age they're at in particular, I think maybe as they get older, then I'd be more inclined to like go with it. I still think it's fair for the other parent to get that experience with them at this age. And I feel like that's what the courts like push for. Pushful.

They, that's something they really encourage. That is valid because also I can appreciate that there have probably been times where the kids are crying they don't want to go to daddy. But then once they're there, they're good. It's that out of sight, out of mind. When Tyler was younger, I've gone to pick Tyler up before. He's screaming, holding onto his mom's leg. Yeah, yeah, I've had that.

Like, with dear life, like I'm like the devil. Within two minutes of being in the car, he's smiling and he's laughing. Yeah. But kids will try it, especially if they know they can. They can't articulate what they actually want. is what they think they want. And I also think kids are really perceptive of how adults feel and they would never want to like

disappoint an adult. So they probably always wanna please and be like, I wanna be with you. So I think like as much it kills me, like the safer and right thing to do is to alternate those big occasions and get them to experience it from both. And I think as they get older,

they have more of the understanding and decision making skills to express their feelings. It can be hard as moms, right? When you think especially, you know what? I'm gonna do a better job. I do think that's. Yeah. Like Christmas here is going to be so much better, magical.

Yeah. Like their dad's not going to make the effort. Yeah. However, that is their dad. Agree. And even if he's a lazy MF, yeah, your kids need to see him be that lazy person. As long as they're not in danger,

as long as they're not, you know what, unfortunately, this is your dad. Yeah. You're going to now spend Christmas with your dad, experience it. Yeah. It's probably going to make you appreciate what I do more anyway. Yeah, it's true.

I guess it's letting go of that control, isn't it? I can't have them all the time. And they will get, they will gain their own opinion, perspective of any, any situation. Ships them into who they are as well, I think as well. Like, I do agree. I think sometimes experiencing things done differently really does make them appreciate things that you maybe do for them. Like I get that with some little things.

Like, it sounds really silly, but down to like movie nights. Like, mommy, you do that the best movie night. It's like, we don't get to do this that daddy is. And it's just like little things that I think just, helps create like good appreciative humans who just have different experiences. You can only control what you do in your own home. Yeah. And it's about not competing with the other parent.

Yeah. That's when it becomes. Yeah. That's when your children become spoiled. And it's like, you know, I bought them this. Oh, look what I bought you. Yeah. Yeah.

I think, I think that I can probably speak for a lot of people where maybe they're sometimes struggle where they feel like the dad is like the fun parent, you know, because they only have them every other weekend. And it's like he does McDonald's every. time and he does the fun things and the staying up late and then there's another parent that's almost like the strict one that's got to have the set bedtime and the homework and I think that can sometimes be really difficult when the kids are then like oh but dad's so fun like this is boring it's easy to resent it's easy as let's be honest it's easy to resent the dad yeah yeah but I also think

I felt like that for a period of time but then I also flipped it on its head a little bit and thought actually I feel like they feel like I'm the safe predictable parent I think sometimes things like routine and predictability makes a child feel more safe and like they know what's to come they I don't know so I like I tried to like because that used to really bother me because I was like I'm fun like why don't you think I'm a fun parent look what I can do hands hands like literally they think I'm weird but I but then I was like but I create this safety like they this house is their home so I think it's a lot of it is like trying to quieten our ego and like go back to what you said at the start like it should all be child focused it's not about

how we're feeling, it's about them. And our role is not, we need to stop focusing on raising happy children. And I know that sounds like, what do you mean? But our goal is not to make our child happy. It's to, like I said, create a healthy adult. Some of us are spoiling our kids, making the kid happy in the moment.

And then that adult is terrible. That adult is spoiled. That adult is disrespectful. That adult is, we're going to be adults a lot longer than we were children. Yeah. That hurts my heart. And that should be.

I'm still a child. That should always be our focus. What kind of adult am I creating and helping build here? I want to stay on that. So you've got two boys. Yes. As a mum of boys, what tips would you give for raising a boy with big emotions,

especially with things we're facing in this day and age, like the Manosphere and things like that? Like what tips would you give? I think it's difficult, right? Because a lot of boys might not want to talk to their mum. I remember me growing up, again, just to divert quickly, we had a, my mom got a boyfriend and he moved in really quick and he turned out to be abusive. And there was so much that happened that I saw physical to me, physical to my mom. And it was kind of like, before then, I would say I was a bit

of a brat and then something happened and then I kind of looked at my mom in a completely different way. I think the reason why I say that is sometimes life teacher, life is your best teacher, right? It wasn't that my mum was teaching me certain things. It was that life was teaching me and I was seeing certain things. I think my mom always gave me the space to come and talk to her. If I'm feeling a certain way, I can come and talk to my mom. I think it's so important that as moms, you don't take away from being a mom to try and be a dad. Interesting. Right? Even with, I don't like the, respectfully, Father's Day comes around. Mums are saying, look at what I've done.

I'm doing it on my own. And it's like, you're a great mom. Mother's Day is for you. Celebrate it. We should celebrate your queen. If Father's Day to me is for the good dads. It's not, let's not talk about it. It doesn't mean that moms aren't great.

But a mom can't be a dad. A dad can't be a mom. And I think we just need to focus on being the best that we can be. You're both probably incredible moms. Your kids love you. adore you and you won't even realize until they're 18, 19, how much they appreciate you because they won't even realize. How do you look at your parents now compared to when you was five or six?

Yeah, like completely different. Completely different because you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't know you went through this. Yeah. And I think it's sometimes like holding on to that and being like, do you know what? They may think that I'm like the boring one or I set this boundary, but I know one day they'll look back and be like, now I get why she did it. And it's holding on to that being like, I wish you could know it now, but I'm going to have to be patient and wait because I'm,

I'm doing this for you. One day you're going to appreciate it. When I look back on my childhood, I feel guilty as a man because I'm like, wait a minute, mum, you was giving me your lost. You was working. You was then coming home doing this, doing that. You had no support. There was no real family network around you.

There was no man back. And yet you always showed up for me. You was always there. And I, you must have been exhausted. Yeah. And meanwhile, I'm being a brat at times. I want this. I'm complaining that I haven't got this and this and this.

not realizing how much you're giving to me. And those epiphanies don't come until they're later. But we want them now. Like you said, we want them now. I just want to feel it. I think sometimes as well, it's like things like, so my kids, for example, like their dad's always been with someone else. So at their house, there's like two adults like who muck in and do stuff.

And like one thing that I've really wanted to focus on is like, again, I don't want my kids to like become brats who are ungrateful and think like, oh, they go to bed, the house is messing. They wake up and it's tidy. Like I want them to see what goes into. to like maintaining a house as a single mom. Like I'd wrongly or rightly like I do remind them like remember mommy is doing this on her own. So like, you know, we all mucking together.

We're a team that we call ourselves the three musketeers and we do everything together. Like it's not just my job. It's I want them to see what goes into it. And look, like I don't know if they'll get there ever have someone at this rate. But it's just I want them to appreciate that it's very different being in a home with one adult and seeing what goes on around to maintain that. And because sometimes I think as well, like when you are the primary caring

and you have them more and you're managing your own emotions with other things going on, like they're not always going to see you smashing it. They're going to see you exhausted. They're going to see you cry. And then I think it's so okay. Like I think at the start of my marriage breakdown,

I would like try and hide like when I was upset and stuff. But now I'm, if I'm feeling a certain way, I let them see because I want them to know like you're a human, like, it's actually. really normal to feel sad. It's really normal to feel angry. It's really normal to get things wrong and try and apologize and do better. And I think we so often try and hide like all these human emotions because we just like you said want these happy children. But I actually think it's them experiencing all the other emotions that builds them into like those adults we want them to be.

Let me ask you a question. Do you carry any guilt? Sometimes. Yeah. Tell me about that. Oh, God. Oh, God. Therapy. Do you know what it is? I think. I think a lot of it's comparing it to what I had growing up. I was very fortunate that I had a mum and dad who were together. I had a very, very present dad. He was like the only dad at every single event. And like already like I'm experiencing things where, you know, their dad might not be a parent's evening or things like that.

And I have this guilt. God, I feel really about saying this, but I don't know, like sometimes I feel a guilt that I maybe chose the wrong person to have kids with. I sometimes feel like, I don't know, a guilt that like, for whatever reason our marriage ended or not, like I think every party has a part to play, right? Everyone can look back and think I could have done this differently, I could have done this better. I guess sometimes you don't realize what work you needed to do until things are done. You don't have that initiative to step back and reflect.

Like I feel like for me like going through what I did change me as a person because it was the one thing that pushed me to do any work I needed to do. And I guess to an extent I carry guilt. I think I've been more, I don't know, relieving myself for that guilt recently because I know I'm doing as good a job as I can and I can only control what I can control. And these are my set of circumstances I have. So I try not to live with like regrets and just try and learn from everything that's gone wrong. Are you proud of yourself? Yeah, I am. Good.

Yeah. I'm going to cry. Yeah, I am really well. Can you imagine? I was a guest to make one of the hosts cry. No, because it was just an energy I got from you talking. And I was like, I don't know what's happened. But in my head, I'm like, at some point, you felt the weight of the world on your shoulders.

Yeah, I genuinely remember thinking, like, what's the point? And I can't do this. Like, I think very few of us ever think I'm going to be doing this on my own. And like, we've been separated three years. But the three years, we've been separated, have not. not been easy. Like there's been, I'm one of those people, I think, you know this. Like, I'm a very positive person and everything. I'm like, it's fine. Like, it's another lesson sent my way and I'll get through it. Like, I'm always the strong one. And I think sometimes when

you get completely broken down and then you're like, oh shit, like I'm actually like a human. But I said to you yesterday, like every hard thing I've gone through, I've got through and I'm still here. And if another hard thing gets thrown at me, I know I can do it now because, I've done all the other ones. Yeah, I'm bloody proud. I think it's like letting, I think for a lot of us, it's letting go of really wanting someone to show up how. Yeah, 100%.

How we think they should show up. Yeah, how we want them to. We wish they could be. I've always said, you know, in an ideal world, I would have married someone who I stayed with and we'd had this loving family and we'd all live under one roof. Yeah. That didn't work out.

So then for me, it's like, I then strive for that perfect co-parenting relationship. Yeah. I know that it's like what actually is that. It's like the next best thing, right? Yeah. And for me it was. It's like couldn't do that right.

Need to make sure I do this right. And it's really letting go of you can't control how someone shows up. And it is frustrating. And sometimes you're like, why can't you just think about them? It's grief. I always say it's grieving, right? It is. When your relationship breaks down, you're now grieving like the vision I had of family.

Absolutely. Yeah, I envisioned a wife, kids, this, that, the house and what, I'm not going to get that. So then you're grieving that whole process. And then it's like, I'm not even going to get the co-parenting relationship. I've never considered that bit as also grief. Yeah, it's like I'm not even going to, I'm not having to let go of this vision that I had. I feel like that's what I'm doing. I think what's really, you said before, like how like, you know, a mum can't really be a dad

and that there are boys, sometimes they don't want to open up to their mum about a certain things. I think that's what I hold really closely to me and that I worry about having two boys as well and I feel like don't get me wrong. As co-parenting relationship goes, I don't have it

that bad. No, you don't. However, for me I really would love a male figure to be able to show up for my boys emotionally which I feel like, obviously now but like which I feel like

they lack. And it is that, and by you say, when you said like boys sometimes don't want to open up to their mom, I guess a lot of people probably will worry is like, then if you don't have that male figure, I feel like, although like you said, you know, just make sure that you teach them how to become like a good person and this, that and the other, sometimes I feel like boys do need a male figure to look up to, to understand how to deal with things that women deal with things so different. And I guess it's that loss that you grieve of, I wish that my boys had a dad that wanted to do certain things with them or talk to them back.

Like, as they get older, it worries me, you know, when they're hit puberty, when things happen, they're not going to want to talk to me. I felt that recently. I don't think that their dad will express or give them that space to open up. And he might not. And I think, again, ideal world, right? You have a man or a dad that does this and a mum that does that and everyone's doing what the other person wants them to do or feels like they should do.

You can even have parents living together and it look messy. Like you could have stayed with your person and still been doing all the work. Yeah. Being together. I think we've got to stop asking the question of, wait, are you two together? And rather ask the question of what's the environment the child's being raised in? Very true. That's more important, right?

Think we put pressure on it. On staying together is the goal. Yeah. But that's not the goal. the goal is a happy environment for our children to raise them. But I also think taking that into account, you can't also control what environment they're in in the other home.

And I think that's frustrating as well. And even back to what you said about children speaking to their moms and so on and so forth, you can't even control, even if a man was there, you couldn't control that he's going to talk to that man. Yeah. You can't control, we can't even control our kids. Yeah.

Right? Up to a certain age, they're going to do what they're told. Yeah. But we can't control them. Yeah. Right. We can give them the space to say, you know what, I'm going to go talk to mom.

Yeah. And I've, your son at some point will come and talk to you. It might be the littlest piece of information, right, about something so silly. But it's testing the waters to how does mom respond to this? Yeah. Does mom make me feel safe? Does she make me feel seen? From there, he might come to you with something bigger.

And I think it's so important when you see your son coming to you, let's sit down, let's talk. Yeah. Or let's create a space because what might not happen is your son might not want to talk to you at the dinner table. in the house. But you know what? If you take him to a football match, yeah. Yeah, and go get something to eat afterwards, that might be a prime environment for him to start opening up about girls or other stuff that he's going through. Sometimes change the environment in order to make the sun feel a bit more comfortable about opening up. Yeah, that's so true. I wanted to ask this. What would you say is the biggest mistake that separated parents make because they think that they're pushing

the children first? Feeling like they need to do everything together. like everything like you separated but yet you're still oh we're going to go on a holiday together and we're going to do this and we're going to do that i always say if your relationship with your co-parent would change the moment either of you got with someone your relationship shouldn't be like that now because that's what happens like you know what we're not going to go on holiday now because daddy's partner looks like the bad person because the partner's come in and disrupted something when in reality that was never how it should be and what often happens is it's only like that because either the man wants to get back with the woman or the woman wants

to get back with the man if you both wanted to get back with each other you would be so again it's creating a false environment for your child that's going to be disturbed at some point yeah it's confusing that's it like I think I've been very much like separate right but separate now and I think that's what's made things easier because they know just like like birthdays for example I've always offered, do you want your dad to come to your parties? And I think because he started not to come, they just associate. We do a party at mummies and we do a party at daddies. And I know for some people like things like birthdays, they're an exception.

And I'm not closed off to it. But I think where my kids have just grown up now with a life where that's what they associate. And it's a different. And yeah, the holiday thing, you've done that. Yeah. So. And there's nothing, the thing is, let me just say, there's nothing. wrong with it but again just because

mum and dad are together in the same space doesn't mean the child is going to feel like this is real or even feel like I do understand that because so me and my ex-husband took our kids to Disney together I was single he wasn't if I was

yeah if I wasn't single I wouldn't have done it and I know that sounds bad but I'm I personally saw it as an opportunity of I didn't want to take three kids to Disney on my own and if he was up for it

we got on well enough to do it and it worked really well I wouldn't do it now because I'm in a relationship and I don't feel the needyed but I can understand you saying if it was something that you then wouldn't do the thing is I would never have made a habit of it

I think it's probably becomes quite tricky when if it's like yeah they they they do days out all the time and they do holidays once a year and then all of a sudden like you said, a new person comes in, they've ruined everything. It's just also delaying like the child's acceptance of what their life is.

I think it makes it harder. I also think like as kids get older, things get more complicated. I think because they have like a bigger understanding of some of like the heavier parts of it. But I just think, yeah, I guess it's almost like sometimes our way of like trying to soften the blow and it's like.

I just didn't want to do Disney on my eye. But sometimes the break up is the blessing. Oh, 100%. And sometimes the breakup is an opportunity to teach your children. Look, mom and dad are no longer together, but look at how calm it is. So one day when you break up with someone, you know to show respect, you know da-da-da-da-da. And you know that you're going to be okay. Exactly.

You're teaching them resilience. Absolutely. With new partners, what are your thoughts in regards to introducing them to your children, when to do, when to do, when to do. do it, when to do it, that sort of stuff. I can appreciate also it's probably different with ages of the children. Yeah.

But do you have like a idea of what you think is the right timeline? I don't like the idea of timelines. Okay. Because I think, say we say, you know what, it needs to be a year, right? And I've been that. I've waited a year to introduce someone

to my children, it hasn't worked out, right? my son's mom and stepdad, his stepdad met him a lot sooner, right? And I don't think I was happy about it at the time. They've been married for multiple years now. They've got their own kids. It's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful.

I think it's all down to knowing the, how well do you know that person, right? Rather than it's been a year. It could be a year and I might have seen that person once every month. It could have been five months and I've seen that person every single week. Yeah. Yeah? How well do you know that person?

Have you seen that person? person in different environments. Have you seen that person happy, angry, frustrated? How well do you, if you can focus on, I'm content that I know this person quite well. And also, them meeting your child doesn't mean that they're now the stepparent. Right. Doesn't even mean that your child's going to remember that meeting. It might just be, you know what, you're out in a park. Such and such comes along. There's a little interaction. I think us as parents sometimes over stress on that. We make it such a big deal. Our children meet new people all the time. Yeah. And they're resilient. They're resilient. And they don't, yeah. Substitute teachers. Yeah. Football coaches. Yeah. Like go to a friend's birthday

party. You meet all the parents. We put pressure on ourselves that this is going to like mess them up and be like, oh, watch mommy fail at another relationship. Yeah. Like, but I guess also like seeing relationships that don't necessarily work out and seeing someone being able to put boundaries in place or respect themselves enough is actually also another lesson that's teaching them. Yeah. I just think, I just realise that. I just think it's important to, what I touch on in the book is date yourself before dating someone else. Hell yeah.

That's me. Understanding that because what often happens is we don't quite know, what do I like? Like, do I like? What kind of things do I like? So then when I meet someone, I'm like, I can express that to that person, but also understand because I like these things and I'm aware of myself, that person's a good fit for me. If we don't know ourselves, because we haven't taken the time, we just come out from one relationship, we go straight into another.

a lot of the times what we do, and I've been guilty of this, I've come out of a relationship and I've based my new partner off of what my old partner wasn't. Yeah. So what are your green flags in a relationship? I'm red.

I'm red. Yeah, obviously. I'm trying to be positive. Green flags, I love a woman that looks after herself. Like you prioritise yourself and you understand the importance of, I think it's beautiful that we look after other people and certain things like that,

but a woman that looks after herself, especially our health. For me, I want longevity. I want to be around for years. I don't want a partner that isn't looking after herself that I'm then going to have to cater to when she's 50. You haven't been training, you haven't been doing this. So understanding the importance of looking after ourselves,

that's a massive green flag for me. So then red flags are to me people that smoke too much. Or smoke, I can't, I've tried. Same. I've tried the smoking thing. They, I've tried to. I don't even like that. I got with someone that smoked because she told me she was quitting.

Yeah, I had that. Actually, I was told that he quit. I was told that he found out that he did that. I was told he did it socially only and then I caught him in his garden having a cigarette. And then you feel I then, at the time I realized, no, this is actually worse than I thought. I was invested. So now it was like, I can't really, actually really like her. It's just I don't like this part. Maybe shit changed.

Yeah. So then I stayed around and I hoped that someone would change. They weren't going to change. Got to do it with what you're saying. sitting in front of you there and then. A hundred percent. Based it on that, what are they showing you? If they, if nothing changes about this person,

will you be happy in a year's time? Yeah, so talking of dating. Yes. We had a lot of questions. And people asking why you're single. Are you single? What are you, like, what are you looking for? We want to know.

Like, first of what, are you dating? Um, yeah. Are you open to dating? I'm open. Yeah. Yeah. Are you on the apps? No, I was on the apps and then.

They're shocking. The apps depressed me. In what way? in, um... Did you get recognised on the app? Oh yeah. Really? I think that was a bit of a...

I've had that. Pringe moment for me. When women were leading with, oh my gosh, you're that guy and... So did you find that off-putting? I found it off-putting. Okay. Because I didn't feel...

If you're... You can watch me on social media and believe that I'm a certain type of way. Yeah. And then you could meet me in person and be like, he's nothing like, how I thought. You shouldn't base...

your idea of someone just off of what you see. Yeah, I really think you're different to how you come across necessarily. Do you? Do you? In what way? That's interesting. I don't know. I feel like you're like got a very calm energy.

What did you expect? No, do you know what? I thought you'd be like less approachable. I've got to be honest. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Not that you come across bad at all.

No, you don't. That's not what I'm saying. But I feel like in person you seem a lot softer. Yeah. Mm. But is that, is it the content with the kids or just what is it? No, I don't know. I don't know.

Maybe, do you know what? Maybe because when you're on your page, you are solely like dad mode. Yeah. And although we have been speaking about kids, you opening up more about maybe like, I don't know. I just, I feel like you see more vulnerable and soft rather than like alpha, alpha man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's funny because my children have that same energy. Like a lot of people will meet the kids and be like, oh my gosh, they're so calm.

Yeah. The energy is so calm. And my son will say, yeah, I get that from you, Dad. Because he's old enough to realize that. I get that. I feel like you are quite like. I'm glad I wasn't just being like. But no, go back to the apps a minute.

Yeah. So it was more, I think I might look at myself and think, you know what, I'm a seven. I'm a, I'm reasonable. I'm not too bad looking. And then certain women will throw their shot. And then I start to think, oh, maybe I'm not as great as. Maybe I'm a five. Maybe I'm a five.

Maybe. I get it. Maybe. Oh, damn. Okay. Is this what I've got to pick from? Yeah. Like, is this the levels?

And I also felt that everyone's auntie was on there. Because I felt like, I'm getting approached by nothing but aunties. I don't, this isn't doing anything for my confidence. I need to, I need to come off. What were you on? I was on hinge. Just hinge. Yeah.

And I'm very. So there was a few that I matched with and a red flag for me is communication times. Okay. If you take too long to respond, like none of us are that busy. Like in my, I'm very busy, right? But if I want to communicate with you, I will. So if you don't hear from me for like two days or whatever, it's because I didn't want to. Yeah.

I didn't prioritize you. It wasn't because I couldn't. I just chose not to. So I think communicating with some women and feeling like you're probably chatting to a lot of guys. Well, there's probably a guy that's got your attention right now and you're just jumping in here as and when. Just, off-putting for you.

Yeah, I like, I want to feel wanted. Wanted. Yeah. I don't think there's anything wrong in saying that. No, I was, I hesitate. No, I'm gonna- Who does it? It's really interesting you say that because I feel like,

I feel like Carly and I have maybe slightly different opinions about that sort of communication situation. I am very much. I'm very much like to talk all day but I don't need to be spoken to all day but like don't just disappear like I think it's rude

like communicate if you're having a really busy day at work I'm cool with like gonna have a really busy day at work but I hope you have a good day cool I don't need you to obviously give me your fucking timetable but I feel like there is a level of respect

of you know if you're talking and then they suddenly like disappear of the face of the earth for like 10 hours for me I'm not really really loving it. Whereas I think Carly is a bit more like, oh, do you know what? Like, um, they might be busy. Like so, no, I just don't need like a good morning text every morning. Like, I'm very much like, I'm very independent. Like, as long as I've, like, say I'm seeing someone, as long as I'm like, they're checking, I'm more a voice notter anyway. So a few voice

notes and I'm more like an evening call than like messaging all day where I don't feel like there's like any tone like you're not really growing the connection. I don't feel like, oh cool, like how's your day, yeah, good, you. I just, no, not disappear. I feel like if he wanted to, he would. I don't want someone to disappear. If I'm talking to someone and they go with, some people we do want to disappear.

Yeah, I look who an only dream. But if I was dating someone and I went, they went a whole day without speaking to me, that's a no deal. That is a no deal. Yeah, a whole day. Yeah. A whole day. You're joking like, I'm amazing.

Why wouldn't you want to? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where have you gone? Yeah, that doesn't work for me. Like last year, do you remember when I was dating that guy who like, some days he talked to me for hours and then like, oh, the inconsistent behaviour. But I feel like you were trying to convince yourself that it was okay. Oh, yeah, but he also lied about smoking and then, well,

I won't even go to the reason he ended it with me, but that's a real learning curve. One thing I do try and do now, or I say now, but I haven't been in a relationship for a while, when I met my last partner, we met on social media and we started talking and I said, the one thing I'm not going to do this time is spend weeks and months texting, talking without meeting. Oh yeah.

I need to get a feeling of her energy. 100%. Yeah. That's something I'm now more mindful of. FaceTime and. But you still can't get. So my rule before I give up some of my very precious kid free time because I have such an immediate kid free time,

I need a face time to see if there's like a bit of energy, like see if I actually see if you actually look like your pictures as well. But I understand what you mean. You don't want a pen pal. No, I don't want to pen pal. Yeah, I need to know. Because I can, we can banter, we can communicate very well in text, I can meet you and be that more. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

I agree. Yeah. You in person is just completely different. Yeah, no, I understand. So are you open to dating someone from sliding to the Ns? Did you get a lot of DM slides? Do I? Yeah. Yeah, I always say this. I don't think women, I don't think women know how bad women are. I do.

I think I do. No, I do. I've seen some male influencers DMs so I can see. I wish you would have my baby. Like, I wish she was my children's dad. And do you entertain them? No. But would you entertain someone who slid into your DMs?

Do you like, look at their pictures and you're like, okay, you're quite fair. No, because I think I get, is it the ick? But it's like, oh, that if you're doing that with me, you've probably done that one. I don't mean someone that slides in, in that way, I mean a literal like, hey, how are you? I love your page.

Would you entertain that if you thought they were attractive? Yeah, I probably would. Yeah. There's the top question. It's not always getting to see that. It's not always getting to see them as well. Well, listen, you better check your request after this episode goes out because I feel like they're going to all be like, oh, be my baby daddy.

Hey, how are you? Entering differently. Yeah, we wanted to end on this question. If you could give every separated parent just one piece of advice, what would it be? I would say always lead with, is what I'm about to do best for my child? Yeah. I think if you've got two parents that have that same thought process with everything they're doing, that you're about to argue with the mum, is this best for my child?

Actually, let me stop. You know what? You're about to spite the other parent by, you can't see the child this weekend. Wait a minute. Is this best for the child? Yeah. If that is always at the forefront of your mother, mind when dealing with that person, I think your child will be in a much safer space. The problem we often have is, like I say, we go in those moments where it's, ah, I don't even care. You know what, I just, no, you're not doing this. Well, I'm going to now do this. I'm going to

spite you with this. I'm going to take money away. Well, I'm going to take the child away. And now we're using the child as a porn. Yes. And that's when, that's when it becomes danger. And we don't, we won't even see the impact of that. I said to my friend the other day, I said, even though you believe you're the greatest dad ever, at some point, your child will have to unpack what having you as a dad was like. Yeah. Even though we could feel like, we're amazing.

It's the other parent that's got an issue. You may be overcompensating. There may be certain things that you're doing. And one day your child will be in a therapy session talking about, oh, yeah, my mom used to do this. And because my mom done that. Because my mom used to do this, I now have this trait and I'm quite avoidant

because my mom was avoiding or, you know, I'm quite aggressive because I used to see my dad be aggressive. We won't know what that looks like until they're older. But if we can genuinely at least go through life thinking, is this best for my child? Even if things do happen, which they naturally will, we can at least say, well, our intention was for their best. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like we've said before, you need to love your child more than you hate your ex. A hundred percent. Yeah. We are going to do a product of the week because you've brought something with that we feel like we need to share. I did. Guys, we have Aaron, Aaron Dale, I didn't know, that's your last name.

Aaron Dale's first ever book, it is called The Co-Parent, a word he absolutely loves. And it is a toolkit for parenting together apart. I love that. It's got different sections. I'm just going to read the sections out just because they're really relevant. So part one is co-parenting foundations. Part two is co-parenting day-to-day. Part three, which I think a lot of you all. benefit from is co-parenting with difficult people and part four is co-parenting ever after so yeah if you're looking for something to read when does this come out around comes out 10th for september but you can pre-order on amazon waterstones everywhere that sells a book amazing so going at yours got i think a lot of you i think we both need more than i think Aaron thank you so much for coming i feel like it's been

so insightful could have talked to you for another hour yeah i mean we may need to do a part too because like I feel like, I feel like we were getting like deep into therapy. Like I feel like, you know what I mean? But no, honestly. It's one point. I nearly cry. Thank you so much.

And we want to end the episode. We always get a guest to give a little sort of like affirmation of the week. So positive. So just maybe, I don't know, what someone can take from you, like whether it's a phrase or one word or anything. Like what advice do you want to give to our listeners to take away with them from this episode? you know what it just i was like what am i going to say like but then a friend of mine embedded something into my head recently and it was be selfish for selfless reasons and i was like that's so profound like if that you looking after yourself is so important to looking after your child and

sometimes we we don't want to prioritize ourselves because we feel selfish and being selfish but for that selfless reason of i need to make sure i'm good so that my child's good Can't pour from an empty cut. You can't. So it's remembering that it's okay to be selfish for selfless reasons. Love that. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Thank you guys. Make sure you go and follow Aaron on Instagram, TikTok. Any other platforms you've got? Oh wow. I'm joking. Facebook. I will be bringing things back on YouTube as well. Amazing.

So yeah. Thank you. Honestly, ladies. Thank you so much. Thanks. See you next week, guys. Love you. Bye.