Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce - Kylie & Ashley Graham on Runway Mishaps, Plus-Size Labels & Opening Up About Pregnancy Loss | Ep. 38

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Starting point is 00:00:54 Visit camh.ca to help us forge a better path for mental health care. Not going to lie, last week in my episode with Caleb, my collar was so drunk. I can't stop seeing it in clips. It's bothering me so deeply this week. I made sure my collar and shirt fit better. So there's that. Let's get this podcast started.

Starting point is 00:01:24 Welcome back to Not Gonna Lie, a Wave Original, brought to you by Liquid Ivy. I'm your host, Kylie Kelsey, otherwise known as the lady with four kids who talks, an enjoyer of scruffy beings. Shout out to my first love, the Philly Fanatic and Irish Wolfounds. Now I have my husband. It's like a trifecta. And officially, the mother of a six-year-old. Oh, no.

Starting point is 00:01:51 Give me a second. I just did my mascara, and Queen Emma knows, it took, like, a good amount of time. Happy birthday, whyee! Only God, that's so sad. I can't. That's so sad. It's sad and happy. Also, it's weird to be 24 with a 6-year-old.

Starting point is 00:02:14 That's weird. A weird phenomenon. Wyatt picked out a cake with Ariel on top. She wants her specifically with when her. Her tail is sort of flippy at the end, and she wants to make sure flounders there. Also, when I was picking out decorations with her, she was deeply offended by the fact that I thought a mermaid decoration was sufficient. And she looked at me and said, I didn't say mermaid, mom. I said, Ariel. So coming up on today's episode, the Phillies first playoff game is this weekend, which means it's the perfect time to get honest about one of the most

Starting point is 00:02:52 exciting phenomenons in all of sports. Red October. After that, I'm going to be joined by Supermodel, Designer, Entrepreneur, and Advocate for Body Confidence. You guessed it. Someone else I have no business talking to. Ashley Graham. But first, the Phillies have officially clinched a buy in the playoffs and their first game is this Saturday. So for any real ones who don't know the lure of Red October, I'm going to get honest about it right now. Can I be honest? It's brought to you today by our friends of Peloton. Check out the new cross-training tread plus powered by Peloton IQ. Red October, for those who don't know,

Starting point is 00:03:30 is when the Philadelphia Phillies make the playoffs. It is an environment that is unmatched. Okay, that stadium Citizens Bank Park ends up being good vibes only. And I swear the electricity that the players can feel from the stands end up in their bats, okay? I'm not saying that we take part, but I really feel like we might have something to do with it. A couple years ago, Jason and Travis went to Red October.

Starting point is 00:04:06 We saw a couple home runs at that game. To be clear, I was at the game with Jason and Travis, but you guys know I love to sink into a hedge. So I was actually at the back so that they could be at the front. And to whoever sniped me and put it on TikTok, that was rude. I was minding my own business. And when the Jumbotron hit the two of them, I was nowhere to be seen.

Starting point is 00:04:35 Because that's how I like it. The best Phillies playoff game I've ever been to was the game where I met Charlie Manuel and his wife, Missy. for those of you who don't know charlie was the manager of the team when the philadelphia phillies won the 2008 world series i always said growing up that if i met let's say biance i wouldn't cry i would be excited to meet her but i wouldn't cry if i met charlie manuel i would cry and i can firm that I teared up. It was embarrassing. I was pregnant and I did blame it on the fact that I was pregnant, that I was tearing up. But in the picture, I'll see if I can send it to Queen Emma. In the picture where I met Charlie Manuel, you can see my forehead vein popping like you

Starting point is 00:05:36 wouldn't believe. It was embarrassing to a degree that I cannot even explain. He is lovely and I love him and it's lovely and go phils my favorite philly right now is the philly fanatic also oh my gosh last week benny was looking for something and she said the phomagic instead of the fanatic and i said you know what he is magic and that's how i feel about that i'm so glad that my love of him has made its way down into my children. That's how you know it's real. That's it for Can I Be Honest? Brought to you by Peloton next up, Doom Scroll of the week.

Starting point is 00:06:22 First up on Doom Scroll, I've mentioned being a type C mom on this podcast, but I just stumbled across a TikTok that perfectly describes what that actually means. Queen Emma, the clip, please. The flounder doesn't go in animals, egos and people and characters, the characters. I can see why you do that, though.

Starting point is 00:06:39 Thanks so much for having us over. Sorry, neither of my kids have shoes. I don't own a baby meal clipper. I usually just kind of nibble mine babies off. I can do it for yours if you feel comfortable with that. No, get shoes that don't need socks. I don't know where any clean socks are. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:06:57 This TikTok made me feel so seen. The balance between having some things done very well and thought out. and prepared and other things being like, no, you need to wear crocs. I don't have socks, or I don't know where the clean socks are. Or like, the clean socks are in the dryer and they're not dry yet. I need you to put on sandals. Like, let's get this show on the road. At any given point, if you look at my car, it is the epitome of a type C mom. I have a varying option of sizes of diapers. So at any given, like right now, I can guarantee you that there is, at least one size two diaper, probably three to four size three diapers, two size seven

Starting point is 00:07:49 diapers, and a handful of fours. Now, is anyone still in a two? No. Is anyone still in a three? No. But also, if you fold down the front of a seven far enough, it can fit a four. That's on being a type C mom. Their jackets also in the car. Because why would we put on our jackets in the house to walk 10 steps out the door to the car, which most likely myself or my husband has started to warm it up, to then take off your jackets to then get buckled in your seat? That doesn't make any sense. Next on Doomscroll, I just discovered TikToker Betsy Kenny, who has a series of hilarious Philly ASMR videos and I needed to show the real ones her Philly accent. Queen Emma the clip please. How you doing on? What parish to go do? Tuesday, Wednesday,

Starting point is 00:08:47 Hurstie. Was his brother in your grade? Roy's Harper. It's all accurate. All of those are things that I have heard or said multiple times in my life, maybe with an interchangeable name, but absolutely things I have heard her said in my life. The slight scraping noise you can hear for our audio listeners, that is water ice. That's her white plastic spoon in her Rita's water ice. The accent, I'd give it a good 11. Speaking of Philly accents, Queen Emma is telling me that there's a New Philly show. It's called Task. It's from the creator of Merivistown, who is actually from Berwyn, I believe, which is very, it's not far from us. You can throw a rock and hit it.

Starting point is 00:09:43 I will watch. I do know that the beginning of the first episode, we went hard. Okay. She, the daughter has a job. The job is at a water ice place. it feels it feels like we went a little aggressively obvious in the beginning but from what I've heard so far I like it I haven't gotten that far in though so let me I'll get back to you on that that's it for doomscroll the week next up we had an incident happened recently it really was it was a sad day in our house and it made me want to bring back our segment tiny human question of the week brought to you by perplexity anyone with kids knows that kids ask a lot of questions that it's a lot of questions and it's not always just why why why but it's often

Starting point is 00:10:45 followed up with that every single one gets at least two whys yep we're answering a lot of questions in our house this tiny human question of the week well it got a little dark it got a little dark in our house, we were coming home from school pickup and Wyatt and I were walking up the front walkway and there was a butterfly. And he or she was only flapping one wing. And needless to say, we took the butterfly inside. We offered the butterfly some sugar water, which it did indulge. and then we took it back outside to lay peacefully under the bushes where it said its goodbyes, if you will. And we had to have a brief service for the butterfly. Now, Ellie wanted to say a prayer, but she launched into something else.

Starting point is 00:12:00 that resembled the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge in nature to the butterfly. Where does he live? In nature. In nature, what's my answer? So let's get Ellie a real answer to this question. Queen Emma, can you please pull up perplexity and ask, where do butterflies live?

Starting point is 00:12:24 I said in nature. It was the fastest I could think. But I was stumped. because I didn't know I didn't know how deep we needed to get in that moment she was deep in her prayer a.k.a. Pledge of Allegiance to the butterfly.

Starting point is 00:12:41 So some other answers, perplexity is telling me I could have given forests, meadows, prairies, woodlands, these are great options. Coastal areas including sand dunes. I did not know that.

Starting point is 00:12:57 That's actually interesting. Key requirements. warm climates and sunlight for activity. Dude, same. Host plants for caterpillars to feed during the larval stage. So here's the deal. That would be milkweed. I know that a couple years ago, we planted milkweed to try and attract the butterflies.

Starting point is 00:13:22 Now I know I can go back to Ellie and talk to her about the fact that they live many places. and we can dive a little deeper into that outside of, again, her Pledge of Allegiance to the Butterfly. That does it for Tiny Human Question of the Week, brought to you by perplexity. Now, before we get to our guests, all the real ones know this is generally a very light show, something fun to take your mind off of things, but I've also shared that I started this podcast to be able to bring attention to issues I genuinely care about.

Starting point is 00:13:49 And another cause that I care deeply about is women's health. And October is pregnancy and infant loss awareness month. I will start this segment by saying that if this is a sensitive subject for you, you may want to skip ahead. It's always available in the description of our show that you can actually click ahead in minutes to the next section. So please be advised that this is where I am going to discuss my miscarriage, which I previously mentioned on the show. But I wanted to share some more details because when I experienced my miscarriage, I felt like a bunch of people came forward to support me and offer words of encouragement or love. And in so, they divulged that they also had

Starting point is 00:14:39 experienced losses. And it is interesting how sometimes it takes you experiencing a loss for people to open up about their own. And I don't necessarily think that we should always have to be prompted to share what is very, very normal in trying to grow your family. Starting from the beginning, Jason and I started, that sounds so, it sounds weird to say that you're trying to have a family because it just means that you're doing the deed. Without protection. That's exactly what we're doing. And after a few months of trying, without success, we had our first positive pregnancy test. I say we. Jason didn't pee on the stick. I had my first positive pregnancy test. I believe it was in August of 2018. I went to a point

Starting point is 00:15:47 Normally, I went to my, I think it was a six-week appointment, and the baby was measuring what would have been a few days late. And they said it's still within normal limits. We will see you back for your 12-week appointment. And I scheduled it for the week five. following that, which would have been my 13-week appointment, because we had travel plans. We were planning to go when the Eagles played in London and then follow that up during their bye week immediately after in Ireland. So we were going with family. It was going to be

Starting point is 00:16:38 a time where we were around everyone. And so we, I, I, was very much aware of the rate at which people lose pregnancies. And so I was very guarded about telling people outside of my immediate circle. And I ended up, by the time we went to London, I was supposed to be 12 weeks. And I, we made it a point to some, surprise Jason's mom and dad when we were there by pretending to take a photo and telling them that we were expecting. Okay. Hold on.

Starting point is 00:17:56 I got this. We surprised Jason's mom and dad with a video. We also surprised Jason's aunt Judy and his grandmother, Grandma Mary. When we were in. Cleveland. We surprised Travis with little baby booties. All of these interactions were recorded for like memory purposes. And I think there was the thought process was like, yes, maybe one day we'll sort of clip them together and share them. I emphasize the fact that like this still hurts after having four children because it does.

Starting point is 00:18:53 And it's okay for people who are still in their journey and not yet having gotten over the hump of like getting to meet your tiny humans that you're making. I am so sorry. For people who are, who have experienced loss and who still have gotten to meet some of their tiny humans, I am also sorry because it doesn't not hurt. When we got back from our family trip to Ireland, I went to my regularly scheduled 13, what was supposed to be my 13 week appointment. and I went into one of the regular rooms, not the ultrasound room, and they tried to do the

Starting point is 00:19:52 Doppler. And the minute, I would say, it felt like everything went into slow motion and they could not find the baby on the Doppler. And at 13-ish weeks, they should. And the nurse that was doing it was so sweet and very quick on her feet to say like, oh, sometimes like they hide down below your pelvis, we will take you in for an ultrasound and we'll be able to find them better. And I could just tell. I don't know if it was like doom and gloom of like I was almost expecting it or what, but I remember being like, oh, there, there isn't a heartbeat. Like you didn't find one because there isn't one. I'm trying my best not to let it get to like a full gasping situation.

Starting point is 00:20:54 So they quickly took me into the ultrasound room and did a vaginal ultrasound to confirm that there was, I have literally told this story so many times. they confirmed that there was no heartbeat and they estimated that the baby had stopped developing between i believe it was nine and ten weeks so they couldn't tell me essentially i had had what you would refer to as a missed miscarriage it means that your body did not realize that the pregnancy was no longer viable and so the shitty part is is that you still have the placenta which means you're still getting the hormones and so you still feel like shit and you still feel like you're pregnant and you're not and so uh i ended up

Starting point is 00:22:10 It was a shitty day. It was a shitty day because it was Jason's birthday. And I call, I still remember my OB, of course, I speak very highly of them. every chance I get because I love them dearly. And this was one of the reasons that I fell in love with them as human beings. But my OB was very calm and very supportive and delivered the news in the kindest way that she possibly could. And I ended up because of how far along I was and because of how far along I was and because

Starting point is 00:23:10 of potential risk with other options, we scheduled a D&E for two days later that Wednesday. I still remember going to the car and calling my mom, which is not a good idea when you are heaving crying in the car. But I called my mom. I called my mom. and told her that I couldn't tell Jason because it was his birthday, which seems very silly. It seems very silly because obviously I'm going to tell my husband what happened. And I did. And it was hard for both of us. I will say that having had that experience then messed with my

Starting point is 00:24:10 brain for every consecutive pregnancy. So for Wyatt, we did not share that we were pregnant until I was after 20 weeks. I, for consecutive pregnancies, waited until I was at least 16 weeks. I googled almost every week what the percentage likelihood was that a baby could survive, which sounds really dark. I literally did it for Finn. It's fine. We're fine. Here we go.

Starting point is 00:24:58 The things that helped me get through it were talking about it. I am a person who is an open book. Obviously, I talked about it. it with my mom who also had experienced a loss. I talked about it with just about everyone because since that point, I have had friends or people that I know who have experienced a loss. And like I said, it just never leaves you. And I always like to tell people comparing miscarriages, comparing infant loss, comparing any of this between women, comparing is apples and oranges. It is scarring and

Starting point is 00:25:46 stays with you in a way that is yours only. And whether you have a loss at six weeks or 13 weeks or whenever, that loss is real. So I think it's important to have people around you that that understand what you're going through and who are in on the struggles that you're having and feeling. And I think it's really important to have an open dialogue with your doctors. I'm so sorry if you've experienced this. Like truly sorry. Because it sucks. And there's really no other way to say it. It just sucks. This October and actually every month of the year, women's health should be taken seriously and prioritized so that every woman going through something like this can get the care that she needs. I will be donating to

Starting point is 00:26:45 some organizations that have made this their mission, and I hope that you will do the same. We're going to take a quick break here and then return to today's amazing guest. She's the perfect example of a woman uplifting other women, which we're all about around here. Guys, it's supermodel Ashley Graham coming up next. NGL is sponsored by Liquid Ivy. We're fully into fall here and finally getting back into a routine with the girls in school, Jason back to broadcasting, and Finney still attached to me. Pretty much all day, every day. It's fine.

Starting point is 00:27:17 She's comfy there. And you might be wondering, with all that going on, how on earth I lock in for this podcast? And the answer is, I don't. But at least, at the very least, I can say that I stay hydrated. And one of my favorite ways to do so is with Liquid IV. and Liquid IV is now offering a new level of focus with their sugar-free, hydrating energy multiplier. You guys, Liquid IV and I go way back. I cannot stand drinking water while I'm pregnant, but you know what I can?

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Starting point is 00:29:01 that I'm taking. Seriously, Robin, you've gotten me through a lot. I'm so grateful. Every single time I think that I should stop, she says, don't stop, you got this. It's almost like she's in my head. Gosh, they just have the best instructors. I love it. And the track is soft and it feels good on your joints, because I'm old now, and I have to consider that. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.com. Fly Air Transat, Seven Time winners, Champions of Game. Fly the Seven Time World's Best Leisure Airline Champions, Air Transat. Calling all Booklovers.

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Starting point is 00:30:13 The Toronto International Festival of Authors, October 29th to November 2nd. Details and tickets at Festivalof Authors.ca. She's the supermodel whose message of body confidence and inclusivity truly changed the world for the better. You've seen her walking on the Victoria's Secret Runway at every fashion week on the covers of

Starting point is 00:30:35 Sports Illustrated, Vogue, and glamour. She's also an entrepreneur with a brand new clothing line and a fellow mom. Ashley Graham, welcome to Not Gonna Lie. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I'm not going to lie. We have actually been in the same room together. Okay. Was it really? Did we talk? Did we interact? No, we did not. Was it at a Sports Illustrated party or something? It was not. It was at Alberta Ferretti. Oh, at the runway show? It was. Oh, wow. Wait, was it last year? It was two years ago. That's crazy. Yes, you were wearing this incredible leather jacket. Yes, I remember. That was a wild room. So that's not like necessarily the room.

Starting point is 00:31:26 You like run up to like say hi to somebody or anything. No. And also when we went after the show like behind to see Signora Ferretti. Yes. I was in the midst of trying to figure out how the fuck to say, nice to meet you in Italian. And I had my friend Elena repeating it to me so many times. That I could, like, I genuinely, like, I had blinders on. I was like, I say it again.

Starting point is 00:31:56 How do you say it again? How do you say it? Did it stick? Piacere. Piaire. Okay. I could be messing that up if you speak Italian, pretend you didn't hear that. No, it's okay.

Starting point is 00:32:07 I don't. My husband does, so he makes fun of me all the time. Well, I, I said it well enough that when I said it to senior Afredi, she then proceeded to speak to me in Italian. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That's all I've got. I don't know a single other word you just said. You were like, pasta. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I actually, pizza? I don't know. I got nothing.

Starting point is 00:32:32 Gratzy. I don't know. Wait, so how often do you get to go to runway shows? Never. Literally, it was my one and only. So a dear friend of mine, she works for IFA. Okay. And she was like, I feel like this is pulling you out. out of your comfort zone, you've got to come to this runway show. And so I ended up getting to see Alberta Ferretti. But I also saw Moschino. Major. It was so, it was one of those experiences where I absolutely had no business being there, but it was unreal. It was so cool. Wait, why did you

Starting point is 00:33:13 have no business being there? I am the least fashionable person you will ever meet in your entire life. Really? I wear athleisure every single day in my life, every single day of my life. You wear a sports bra every day? Yes, I do. Do you ever just get, do you ever feel like, I just want to put on like a bra? Well, here's a fun fact. Can't wait.

Starting point is 00:33:39 What? Between children. Oh, yeah, which you've had a lot in a short amount of time. Yeah, and prior to children, I was part of the eddy-bitty-titty committee. Someone would say I was the president. Oh, like, are we like talking like, is that you, Kyrie? Yes, that's me.

Starting point is 00:33:56 I was told in sixth grade that I was so flat, I was jealous at the wall. So there's that. I'm laughing with you. Yeah, no. So what I did have between breastfeeding children, it made it clear that that had left as well. And so I could literally. How? I could put, well, I'm breastfeeding right now.

Starting point is 00:34:19 Oh, because you just had a baby this year. I did. She's six months old. Oh, your baby. I know. But it got to a point where when I put on a regular bra and raised my arms, I actually had nothing to sit in the cup to keep the bra down. Oh, okay, the visual. And you're like taking me through.

Starting point is 00:34:37 You're welcome. These are a thing that I've never had to think about before. What happens when you're done breastfeeding? You just get pregnant and then you're like on to the next thing. Oh, I have four children. You watch. My universe will hear you. Hachoo! Right? Right? No. Are you guys dying? Are you like going? Are you like going?

Starting point is 00:35:01 I, I don't know. I mean, I'm six months postpartum. I think that I'm done. I think, I think, I think, I think I never want to say no because then I feel like the universe is going to hear me. And then I'm going to sneeze and get pregnant. it. Like, you know, you know those people that are like, I'm going to go into, because you have four girls, right? Yes, I do. I'm going to go into your boy, which is. Don't worry. I'm going to ask you about that because I do want to know if you receive it on the opposite side. Yes, I do. That's why I'm asking you. Because I know, you should have the answers. It's so dumb. I know. It is dumb, but it's also like, I get it because I think sometimes people don't know what to talk to you about. Especially the ones who don't have kids. You know, if you don't have kids or if you only have one kid, you're curious. about people who have multiples. Yes. Because it is a curious conversation. Yes.

Starting point is 00:35:53 It's a sight to be seen over here. That's for sure. I also think that it's a tough question. It is made harder by the fact that do you think we haven't thought of that? Do you think we haven't thought to ourselves, like, what it would be like to have the opposite gender in our house? Do you know what I mean? Like, not that I would, not that I'm chasing it or that I necessarily need it or want it,

Starting point is 00:36:15 but the fact that people ask you is if it's not. something that, like, you and your husband have probably discussed, like, what would it be like if a little girl entered our house? That's the thing that when people say, oh, do you want a girl? I'm like, yeah, I want a girl, but we're done having kids. Like, it's just, there's, we look around sometimes, we're like, there's too many children. Oh, well, you guys are outnumbered. And your twins were second? Yes, they were. So we went from one to three right away. I never know what it was like to have two. Anybody that ever complains to me about having two, I'm like, I don't know, what you're talking about. Sorry, can't help you. Yeah. We can't commiserate. I've never felt

Starting point is 00:36:51 this. I do have a question about this for you, because I, please, I am curious. People say when you go from three to, like one to three, or no, one to two is wild. And then four, after three, when you go to four, that it's just as easy or something. I have found that four is, feels very similar to three. And is it because the younger three, just, all play together and they just do their moving? Okay. Got it. All right.

Starting point is 00:37:21 Now, something I am personally very passionate about is talking about body inclusivity, especially for young girls. Oh, you've got a little, like a whole squad. You got a very much so. And you are the literal model of that. It's been eight years since your Sports Illustrated cover that made all the headlines. How does it feel now all these years later to be known for that and the conversation that came from it?

Starting point is 00:37:48 Well, it's a lot of responsibility for sure. And I'm proud to be a part of this community and to be spearheading so many different amazing opportunities as well. It's just still so sad that there's, A, not a lot of plus-size models, B, plus-size, curvy, voluptuous, whatever that word is for people because everybody likes to be labeled something different. And also, the fact that brands, you know, in some cases we're using a lot of Kirby models and now aren't same with runway same with

Starting point is 00:38:22 advertising media whatever so it's an interesting place to be having seen like so much work we've done and then so much of it still kind of like not sticking for whatever reason um but i don't take my job lately i look at anybody who has ever given me their you know their story or a hug or a DM as like a part of my family in a sense of like we're in this together for me like I always look at everything with my glass half full and I'm a very positive person and so I just keep laser focused move ahead don't let the negativity get to me whether it's the whole industry just just saying like where's the plus size models where's the plus size fashion guess what I'm going to go make it and I'm going to go fill a hole that that is just becoming to get bigger and bigger and bigger guess what We're going to go fix the issue. So, and it's really, I mean, it's amazing to know that there is such a major community of women who are banning together. They're underserved, but they're banning together. And they're saying, we want fashionable clothes. We want affordable clothes. We want, we want to be looked at as, um, as important as we are. And, um, and I'm happy to know those women. Now, I, uh, in prepping for this conversation, read a quote of yours that I couldn't love more. You said,

Starting point is 00:39:45 hate that I constantly have to discuss my body because I don't know any man that has to do that. But what motivates me to continue is that I didn't have someone talking about their body when I was young. It's so true. I mean, what, you know, in any introduction that we have, it's like, what at what point have you ever said? And here comes my big-boned friend John. It's like, what? Or like, and here's my 46-pant friend Frank. It's like, it just doesn't happen. But when it comes to women, we're constantly judged on our exterior, whether it's our breast size, our waist size, our hip size, you know, whether we have cellulite or not, are we using Botoxin filler? You know, how many hair extensions do you have? And like, did you put makeup on today? It's a constant,

Starting point is 00:40:31 never-ending exterior judgment that is mind-boggling. And, you know, as much as as I want to fight against it. I mean, we all do it. We're in this world of social media that has us constantly flipping and judging ourselves, judging others. And I think that has a lot to do with it. But I'm ready for the day where we don't have to talk about our bodies in a way that's like, you know, that feels so derogatory in a lot of ways for me, at least. I do think that it feels like women are always put into boxes of like this you you you have to go under the label in which the label that was created for you and it you having these conversations you standing up for the idea that we don't need to do that and that um it doesn't need to be negative is so important

Starting point is 00:41:31 specifically for a household of four girls because these are, Girls who I know in my own daily life, I have changed the way that I speak about myself and my own body in front of my own kids to make sure that I'm giving them an example on an everyday basis of how I can speak positively about my own body because I want them to mirror that. And I've seen examples of it, which is incredible and exciting. Yeah, that's one of the best things my mom ever did was she never. spoke negatively about herself. So the fact that you already know that you're changing your words in front of your daughters, I mean, that's going to change everything for their future. That makes me feel excited about the fact that I've, I, because it is. Right, Kylie. Thank you. It is, but like sometimes it really is like a conscious effort to say out loud something more

Starting point is 00:42:31 positive than what your brain is telling you. Oh, yeah. Especially dressing a postpartum body. I was going to say, you're trying to get a postpartum body for six years. Like, so have I. My oldest is going to be six in January. And it's like, you know, your body completely shifts and changes. And it's almost like, to me, it's almost unrecognizable when I look in the mirror. Yes. And having to shift my mind.

Starting point is 00:42:54 And even just, I'm like, galley, what's that advice I give girls all the time? Now, you mentioned labels earlier, things like plus size, full figured, curvy, voluptuous. The list goes on. and you've said before that you don't like being labeled plus size, how do you feel about all of these labels? You said it yourself that everyone has their own preference. Yeah, I think that labels are, it's a dangerous place to be in my opinion, especially like I started modeling when I was 12 years old. And to be at that time, I was 5, 9, I was a size 12 and they immediately put me in a category of plus size. And I was like, well, what does this mean? And, um,

Starting point is 00:43:36 It marked me and it told me who I was. And my whole understanding of this world is that if you're going to let people tell you who you are, then that's who you will be. But you have to tell people who you are because this is a mean and evil world with people who want to dictate labels and want to put you in a box. But it's your job to really figure out who you are and what you want to be and then command it. So when I say I don't like to be called plus size, it's It's not that I don't love the community. It's not that I'm not here writing for the girlies. It's that I don't really think that we need to have a label because of the number inside of our pants.

Starting point is 00:44:15 And my skinny girlfriends don't do it. My guys, friends and business partners don't do it. Why do we need to start doing it just because we are a much more voluptuous, curvy, you know, type of body. It doesn't make sense to me. No, it very much feels like it should just be that, I mean, as women, I think, we can acknowledge the fact that the spectrum of women's bodies is so it's vast like everyone different height different size different build some people have have a bigger butt some people have small boobs that was me you got the small boobs and I got the big ass and here we are girl

Starting point is 00:44:56 here we go thriving you know what better for it here I am I just I always say I could play field hockey better because I had a good range of motion. Nothing was getting in my way. But like, really, it's, it's one of those things where it's like, why can't we just be like, she is a beautiful woman, period. The end, done. Yeah, that's it. I know. It's mind-boggling to me. It's going to be interesting to check back in with you in about 10 years when your girls are, you know, wanting to put on makeup and put on clothes and all that stuff. Because I remember going through that. Like, I remember wanting to show my midriff off and, you know, pull my boobs out and, and do that and trying to explain to a girl that your worth is not wrapped up in your exterior,

Starting point is 00:45:38 but here we are. Like, I'm a model. It just so happens that my worth is wrapped up. My job is wrapped up in my exterior. So I have been given a privilege to talk about don't let that happen to you. But I've seen firsthand some of the most beautiful women in the world who are some of the most insecure as well. Because you would think, and I could say some of the most famous girls that you would say,

Starting point is 00:46:02 there's no way that she's insecure. But they are. They've got rockin' bodies and snatched faces and all of the above, but they still don't have worth in themselves. So, you know, what I was saying about, you know, watching your girls grow up, it's like planning on training them to have no worth of their exterior is hard, but also knowing that you want them to feel good about themselves too.

Starting point is 00:46:27 It's like it's the double-edged sword. It's wild. It is. It's a pressure that women, I think face every day and almost unnecessarily. Like it's a pressure we put on ourselves, but also like you're saying, like raising girls, I feel an immense pressure to steer them in a way where they can have pride in their appearance, take pride in their appearance, but also not invest all of their worth in it.

Starting point is 00:46:56 Exactly. It's hard. I can't. I can't imagine raising it. It's going great. I'm going to keep saying that till I believe it. I'm okay. Now, I'd love to switch gears a little and talk to you about fashion and modeling.

Starting point is 00:47:14 As a supermodel, you, of course, walk down some of the most prestigious runrays in the world. So as a sports fan and not a model, do you do anything to psych yourself up? Oh, yeah. I mean, I think I'm annoying backstage right before a runway show, because I'm like this. I'm like, who, who, who. I'm also like the oldest lady in the runway now because I'm like, I'm like there with all these like 16, 18 years, no, they must be of age now. There might be a lot now.

Starting point is 00:47:43 They have like 18 to 25. And I'm like, here I am. I'm about to be 38. I'm like, let's go. Let's go. Because I'm also a sports girl. I grew up playing soccer, basketball and volleyball. So I'm all about, you know, like, we got this.

Starting point is 00:47:56 And they're just kind of like this. Oh, who's the crazy lady over there? like she's getting her game face on leave her alone it's exhilarating right before you walk onto a runway it's a wild thing to have everybody's eyes on you and a very like whether the music is like or like you know like whatever you're giving it's giving all eyeballs are on you and don't fall and i've never fallen on the runway until literally two days ago no girl no but I will say how was it a stumble or was it a full splat there was a full splat however however God is good because it was okay imagine a square it was at Hugo Boston I don't even think

Starting point is 00:48:45 anybody caught it on camera so yeah you come out here you go boom boom boom and like right here is like rows of people this last bit is like you're leaving and you're behind like equipment people people can still kind of see you if they care and right there it was like uneven cemented ground and I went kerplap and it was on all fours and I gave it like a quick like a bend and snap if you were I was straight out illegally blonde and I was like here we go and we're back at it and the guy behind me I was we hadn't spoken because he just wasn't talking very much and he was like, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. And then I had a couple of girls come up to me afterwards. They were like, are you okay? I saw you fall. And I'm like, I'm fine, I'm fine. But

Starting point is 00:49:36 thank God it wasn't in the, in like the main character runway. Yes. Because that would have definitely been on the internet. Do you know, I feel like we can apply the thought like Pixar didn't happen to this like videos or it didn't happen. And we're not challenging the internet. We don't want to fucking see it. It didn't happen. We don't know what you're talking about. But I do think this is the perfect instance. And like, if no one caught it, it didn't have it and said, you sold out the dress. That's it. It's sold out. Perfect. That's great. That's amazing. That is, that's honestly, that is, that's to, I always tell people the, the, I was not nervous about getting married. I was nervous about walking down the island. Oh, yeah. So this feels like the fact that you thrive,

Starting point is 00:50:22 in that and that you just fucking turn it on and go is I mean in my head it's like look hot don't fall look hot don't fall you were busy looking hot and you didn't get to the don't fall fast enough it's fine next time you'll have it exactly I must have just like breathed a little too much at that point geez oh no that's that's crazy that it's two days ago yeah now once again as a non-model my knowledge of modeling pretty much is exclusively from America's Netflix top model as a teenager. Are you an A&M fan? When I was in high school, yes.

Starting point is 00:51:02 Got it. And did people say, because like you're tall, did you get those pretty blue eyes? Did they say like, oh, you should model? Yes. And then I had to explain to them that I was not built for that. Okay, got it. Because I don't like when people look at me. Got it.

Starting point is 00:51:19 My answer was usually like I play field hockey. Yeah. Yeah, like I don't, I wouldn't do that. But yes, a number of people are like, oh, you should. And I'm like, I probably shouldn't because, no, thank you. I'm not built for that. I truly, I think that it's obvious that just because you're tall does not mean that you belong on a runway. or or a basketball court right true equal it goes both ways my mom always said like tall girls are the

Starting point is 00:51:57 best because we can you know she always like she was always like reaching for stuff or like doing like something active and she's like see being tall is better like and she would also say to me maybe this is something you could use not this is unsolicited advice sorry but i remember i have this like my my butt does like a it has a side butt is what my husband calls it it's like You know, this like meeting. A little dip. Like right here. Yeah, the hip dip.

Starting point is 00:52:22 Yeah. The hip dip. Love it. I remember when I first discovered mine and I was like, mom, look at this. What is this? And she goes, oh, look, I have it too. And if you didn't have it, you wouldn't fit into this family. I was like, oh.

Starting point is 00:52:35 And I took that until here I am in my late 30s. And that is something I can't wait to tell my kids if my voice. That's so perfect. If I have a voice, say, Mom, look, I've got a hip dip. you're like that's from mama dearest thank you now America's next top model yes yes back to that that was a big deal you know there's a lot of like that I mean that was a cultural moment I remember watching it growing up too so when Tyra called and asked me to be a judge I was blown away I was like are you sure now one of the things that I remember most from the show was when some of the models were

Starting point is 00:53:16 cut their hair. I don't know why the makeover part of the show was always the most fascinating. I think it's because they always chose the girl with like the most luscious, beautiful locks to be like a pixie cut. I know it's so drastic. I know. Has anyone ever asked you to do something? Never. Like that where you were like, no. Maybe. I love that. I'm so glad you dodged. Oh my God. And if they would, I'd be like, how much money are you paying me? Because I'm not doing this for free. Hell no. No. The crazy, I mean, I've worn like blonde wigs.

Starting point is 00:53:50 And when I was on Broadway, I had like a very weird wig on. But that's like a whole, that's not even modeling. But I've never, no, I've never. I do remember cutting my hair into a bob and then getting pregnant and then being like, oh my God, I'm going to be like pregnant and heinous and overweight and have a bob. And then it actually was cute. So I mean again. Circling back to fashion.

Starting point is 00:54:16 you have a brand new clothing line that's officially out today, October 2nd. And I'm wearing it. Hey. I love it. You know, like when you do something and you feel like and I get to lean into like how good it is. That's so good.

Starting point is 00:54:32 You know, yes. And it's with JCPenney. Yes, it's the Ashley Graham for JCPenney collection. And it's available now exclusively at JCPenney in stores and online. Yes. Tell me everything. So full circle moment, I have been, I was modeling for JCPenney as a catalog girl, like way back before Sports Illustrated. And so they approached me about doing a collaboration and not just any collab, like a lot of people get to smack their name on something and say like, did that.

Starting point is 00:55:06 But I've done collaborations in the past where the more involved I am in the design process, the more successful it is because the customer can. feel it. And I said, look, if I'm going to do something like this, like, I need, like, I need a new creative team. I want to be able to, like, be in the meetings, feel the fabric, like design with you guys. And that's, they said, well, that's exactly what we want to, because we want to do a cultural shift when it comes to plus sizes and the fashion at JCPenney as a whole. So we have designed a beautiful collection that is our fall collection. And we've got each season has got a new drop, but we started a 14 and we go up to a 32 and we're starting at an OX. We're going to a 5X. And I'm just really excited because to have affordable, fashionable,

Starting point is 00:55:59 fashionable and clothes that fit is, you know, you would think would be so easy to find and it's not. And I'm just really happy that I was able to make things that I wanted in my own closet selfishly and things that I know have been completely underserved to women who are, you know, most of my friends can't just go into a store and shop because the clothes aren't available for them. So I'm really excited for the world to have a little piece of my creative juices with J.C. Penny. Well, it's so exciting to know how much experience you have in the fashion world that you are a resource yourself with all of the knowledge that you have built up over the years. And so to be able to know that you actually had so much in making this happen and the creation

Starting point is 00:56:48 of all of these pieces, I feel like that speaks for itself to know that people are going to be crushing it in this collection. I really think they are. I'm excited for everybody to like put their little JCP on and strut it because they're going to feel like a million bucks. Now, I'd love to ask you another question about fashion and runways. I remember seeing your post about the Victoria's Secret fashion show last year, which you made history for walking in. You wrote, when Victoria's Secret first reached out, I'll be honest, I hesitated. Their vision of beauty seemed narrow as if everything they created was for just one type of body and it wasn't mine. What ultimately made you change your mind? At that time, it took me a long time to say yes. And because everything I do is really about

Starting point is 00:57:36 alignment and making sure that it's yes it's it's for my brand but it's also for the community and that i'm making the right decision and i never want to take a job just based off of the clout or the or the money it has to be with intention and um ultimately the reason i said yes is because i got on uh zoom at the then she's not there anymore but the CEO at the time and she told me she said we are making larger sizes we are going up into the g and h cups We hear you when you want, you know, you want to see a 424 band. And that really was a promising thing for me, just understanding that Victoria's Secret was making the efforts to do it. And I understand like as an infrastructure and like a whole and a whole company, it is hard to just like, boom, switch the sizes because they've got factories and all kinds of things that they have to go through the process and the hoops and whatever.

Starting point is 00:58:31 However, just knowing that that was the case and then actually seeing the sizes. go up and change as I shot them a Mother's Day campaign for them the following year. They stuck to their promise, and I was really grateful for that. That's incredible. And again, you crushed it. Thank you. It was really cool. I got to come up from the floor.

Starting point is 00:58:58 It was, you know, it was like, boom. And then, you know. Unreal. It was kind of like a, oh, my God, this is happening. And I'm almost butt-maked. What is going on? I just had three children. Holy shit.

Starting point is 00:59:15 You're like, yes, watch this ass. Nailed it. Now, speaking of three children, I'd love to circle back to motherhood. It's something that I love to ask all of my fellow mom guests. What is the best piece of motherhood advice that you've ever received? Oh, you might have heard this, too. And it's something that I tell moms and dads all the time. But I always say to like the moms, I always say, mommy knows best.

Starting point is 00:59:42 And when I say that, it's like your gut intuition is always, is always right. Don't listen to your mom or your mother-in-law or your sister-in-law or your sister or da-da-da-da-da-da. It's like, or your neighbor. It's like it's your child. It's your gut. You know what's best. That's such a good piece of advice. Now, I cannot thank you enough for coming on today. It has been an absolute pleasure.

Starting point is 01:00:10 I want to acknowledge the fact that you are carrying a level of responsibility. I think that you express that you feel this pressure to hold strong for the community that you represent in curvy or plus size women. And being someone who has fluctuated in size size, who has struggled buying clothes for height, for weight, for thickness, all of it, I cannot thank you enough for advocating for women, period, and making sure that we all have the opportunity to look and feel as beautiful as we are. And the fact that my girls get to grow up in a world where they have an advocate like you leading the way. I really, really appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:00:58 That's a really nice of you, Kylie. I appreciate that. Thank you for saying that. Of course, you can check out Ashley's brand new clothing line right now at JCPenney, both online and in store. And that's a wrap on another episode of Not Gonna Lie. You can find even more clips from my longer conversation with Ashley on my YouTube channel on more shit Monday. I'll be back next Thursday with a brand new episode. Follow Not Gonna Lie on all social media at NGL with Kylie. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Not Going to Lie is a Wave Original brought to you by Liquid Ivy.

Starting point is 01:01:26 Thanks to the real ones for tuning in. You know, I'm going to be. Woo! Hey!

Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce - Kylie & Ashley Graham on Runway Mishaps, Plus-Size Labels & Opening Up About Pregnancy Loss | Ep. 38

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