Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce - Kylie on Baby Finn’s Birth Story, Kelce Sisters First Meeting & Newborn Bliss Reality Check | Ep. 17

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

We’re not sure how... but Kylie is SOMEHOW BACK for a brand new episode of Not Gonna Lie presented by Nanit just days after giving birth to her and Jason’s fourth baby girl, Finnley Anne Kelce. Kylie starts things off by explaining why it was so important to her to record a Postpartum Special immediately after having her baby and introduces Baby Finn to the Real Ones for the first time on the podcast (0:10). She also concludes the baby name search saga and explains how they ultimately decided on Finn’s first and middle names (3:41). Then, in a postpartum edition of “Can I Be Honest?” Kylie details her birth story, sharing everything from her labor experience, to that “fat needle in her back” to Jason’s all-pro level skills as a support person and cord cutter (9:04).  After that, even on very minimal sleep, Kylie brings some fire to a fan favorite segment, except this time it’s the sequel: The Dos & Don’ts of Talking to Postpartum Women (18:20). Kylie highlights the things she least appreciates hearing like “sleep while the baby is sleeping” and also shares some advice on what can be helpful to new moms. Also, in honor of her fourth baby girl, Kylie answers 4ish questions about the first couple days of being a family of six, including how the first meeting went for all four Kelce sisters (24:27) and who Finn looks like the most (28:41). Then, Kylie brings back one of her personal favorite segments “You Know What’s F*cked Up?” to touch on the subject of “newborn bliss" (30:44). Kylie opens up about her past experiences with postpartum anxiety with the help of a special guest – acclaimed author, therapist and advocate for maternal mental health – Rebecca Fox Starr (38:54). Kylie asks Rebecca about the signs women and their families can look out for when it comes to postpartum depression (40:29), what needs to be fixed with the current screening system used by most hospitals (44:30), who to contact for help and the common misconceptions about “baby blues” (50:54).  Make sure you tune into More Sh*t Monday on the Not Gonna Lie YouTube channel for more exclusive clips! We’ll be back next Thursday with a brand new episode. . . . Support the Show:   Nanit: Go to Nanit.com for 20% off your first purchase with code KYLIE20 (Code is only valid for purchases on Nanit.com) Lovevery: NGL listeners can get an exclusive discount on their first subscription order by entering code KYLIE at checkout at https://lovevery.com/ Resources on Postpartum Depression: https://postpartum.net/ Rebecca Fox Starr’s new book: Am I Doing This Right? https://a.co/d/eaVtqAq   More About Rebecca! (@rebeccafoxstarr): Beyond The Baby Blues https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/rebecca-fox-starr-villanova-pa/1302129h Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FX's Dying for Sex on Disney+. Based on the podcast of the same name, Dying for Sex tells the story of Molly, who is diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer. Determined to feel everything she can before she can't feel anything, she decides to leave her unhappy marriage to explore her sexuality with some encouragement from her best friend Nicky. FX's Dying for Sex, streaming April 4th only on Disney+. Sign up now at DisneyPlus.com.

Not gonna lie, I just had my baby two days ago. Literally two good days ago, and she's here for her first episode of Not Gonna Lie. Look at that. Ta-da. That was good. Let's get this show started. Welcome back to not going to lie.

A wave original brought to you by Nanette and welcome to my postpartum special. If you're thinking to yourself, how is Kylie podcasting right now? Didn't she just have a baby like yesterday? Say less. I did. It's right there. Didn't she just have a baby like yesterday? Say less. I did. It's right there. Yep.

I'm your host, Kylie Kelsey. No longer pregnant. Slept a grand total of maybe four hours last night. And I just gave birth to my fourth daughter. Literally two days ago. Oh shit. Yeah, that's right. I'm officially a mom of four. It feels really weird to even consider that we, if we went to a restaurant, we would say Kelsey party of six. We have four kids and four car seats. What the fuck are we doing? I got back from the hospital a Little over 24 hours ago

Yeah, I don't we're lucky I can form a sentence right now, okay, I wanted to do a postpartum special because I Felt like it was important to put a little bow on the, on the end of my pregnancy. And also I wanted people to see now there's going to be a population of people that are like, you like me. I just had a human being eggs in my body. Okay. Am I sitting on an ice pack? Yes. Have I gotten much sleep? No. I'm going to spare you the other details because my next step was going to be. Yes. We can just bleep that

out. I told Queen Emma that I wanted to do this all the way back in January and she was like, nah, we could just start maternity leave. And I was like, nah, Queen Emma, we got to show the people, we got to show them what postpartum looks like. It's going great. I just thought it would be funny to record an episode with my baby. Isn't this funny? Do you realize it's crazy that you're taping this show right now? Yes, I do. Although it seems that I'm just unhinged, I'm actually self-aware and unhinged. It's a great combination. Coming up on today's postpartum special, I'm going to kick things off by getting real honest about my birth story. Cause I'm sure you want to know.

I'm also going to bring back one of my personal favorite segments. You know, what's fucked up? Featuring the phenomenon known as newborn bliss. No. Plus you're also going to get the do's and don'ts of speaking to postpartum women. Cause some of y'all need to take notes. And after that, I'll end the show with a special segment

on maternal mental health with the help of acclaimed author and therapist, Rebecca Foxstar. But first, there's a very important topic I need to address. It's been the number one question on this show, 17 episodes in, I've asked guests to weigh in on it. There's been at least 62,000 headlines written about it. And I'm of course talking about our newborn daughter's name. Half the comments on our YouTube channel are just names with zero context. Queen Emma wrote this rundown

with screenshots from social media. Queen Emma hasn't even seen the number of DMs that I have received on this exact topic. It's overwhelming. Well, I'm delighted to say this saga has officially concluded. And I warned you, so all the people who are gonna be triggered

by the fact that this name does not have two T's, I warned you. I gave you fair warning. I said, you know what? There's a decent chance that this baby doesn't even have two T's. I said it. I gave you fair warning. I said, you know what, there's a decent chance that this baby doesn't even have two T's. I said it, roll the clip. If we don't have two T's, it's okay. And she's still one of us. It was the journey. We, uh, for the first 24 hours of her life, she did not

have a name. I would say, uh, we had an idea. Uh. We had discussed names with anyone that we could trust to not share names and we didn't go with a single option that we had been discussing. So there's that. Her name is Finley Ann Kelsey. We plan to call her Finn for short. We picked her name when the time came to fill out the paperwork so we could get discharged. She was baby girl Kelsey there for a minute. And I considered just letting that one roll. It was gonna be a very like Phoebe from Friends moment

of like, oh, you named her baby girl. You know, uh, we didn't. She, uh, she was born at one 27 in the morning. We filled out her paperwork. Yeah. I think at nine o'clock the morning we got discharged, it's, I swear to God, the only thing I had was her middle name. And it's the most generic middle name you could possibly... I love that I'm just roasting myself.

There's nothing we can do. The paperwork is filled out. They're on their way to the government. I don't know what... Fuck. Some of the other contenders that did not make the cut, we briefly considered the name Colette and call her Cole. We considered Georgie, but I didn't like anything that got us to Georgie. No offense to anyone whose name gets you to Georgie. One of the other names we considered was Winifred.

That is not the name of our dead dog. Her name was Winnie and we had plans to call the baby Freddy because I think a little girl named Freddy has to be like so badass and so cute. Like I've said before, I totally respect your opinion on the names of our children. You're allowed to have your own opinion, but I actually don't care what it is. And I mean that in the most loving and respectful way.

We named them and it's official. Also, she's very much a Finn like she's a cute little Finn. The name Finn was not one of the names that we were discussing with other people but came back around because it was a serious contender for Elliot's name. So when we were pregnant with Ellie, we were bouncing back and forth between Finley and Elliot. So considering we had to name four children with the same gender, we had to run it back to the archives and borrow one from a different child. Her middle name is Anne,

A-N-N-E. It covers a lot of people in my life. My mom's middle name is Anne, although it's spelled differently, but we already have an Elizabeth, so she's cool. Lisa's covered. The people in our life that are associated with the name Anne with an E would be my dad's mom. That was her first name. My sister's middle name is after my mom. My cousin's middle name is after my mom. And Annie Elliot is actually Anne. We named her Finley and Kelsey. Now you know how Feng got her name. So let's get to the story of her birth. Oh no. This is, can I be honest about my birth story?

I'll tell you everything I can remember, you know, so I can, I can't with this track pad. She's mad about it. Hold on. That was difficult. It feels so nice to bend down and not have someone, a human being in my ribs. Okay. I'll tell you everything I can remember about when we met you. I'll start with the lead up. We reported for my induction on Saturday. I have to evict the children I grow. We tried everything. I tried doing sprints up my friend's driveway.

I tried doing sprints in the backyard with my children. I tried, um, eating an excess of pineapple. I tried red raspberry leaf tea. I tried, Oh God, what else? Spicy food. I tried, Oh, I had two massages in a matter of five days. I tried a warm bath, not a hot bath, a warm bath. I tried stretching. I tried the, uh, exercise ball. I tried everything to get this child to come out naturally and it wasn't going to happen because when I showed up to the hospital after two weeks of being one

centimeter dilated, guess how dilated I was. That's right. One centimeter. It's so mad. Like I just thought maybe like the fourth, you know Maybe the fourth will come and decide to come out like my body will say we've done this a couple times We know what you're trying to do. Let's get this baby out. No It's not what happened It's fine. She came out Again Babies gonna do what baby wants to do. Baby was comfy.

Finn said, nah, I'm good in here, mom. And then we served an eviction notice. Uh, Jason did not bring an air mattress. I was actually very surprised about that, but he did bring his fan and he didn't fan it on me. So he's, he's a okay. We are definitely regulars in labor and delivery to a point that we really at this point have like regular nurses that we see. And I love it there. It's, it's like a second home at this point. We do get in and get out. One of the charge nurses who I love dearly, Teresa, she said it kind of seems like we're

using it as a drive-through. I respect it. We were definitely all business and out. I did not say I'll see you next time this time around. I didn't say that because poor school. Uh, then we got right into the induction. I was in labor from probably, I don't know, two, three o'clock. I don't know what time I got an epidural, but right after I got my epidural, I got the shakes. If anybody knows about the shakes, I thought she was coming down the shoot. I could not control myself. I was like teeth chattering. Jason was like, are you

good? I was not good. Can confirm that. Uh, I got some Zofran. I feel like this is a breach of HIPAA telling my own shit. I got Zofran because I don't like to feel nauseous. It's that simple. I'm not into that. And so I got that. We didn't even start the Pitocin before the Cytotech kicked in and I started having regular contractions which at first I couldn't feel and then I could. As soon as I could feel them, we called the anesthesiologist because it was time and you know the deal. I got a fat needle in my back after my epidural. We, uh,

use the peanut ball and we flipped it on my side so that the epidural wouldn't settle. Uh, it would go down both legs. I will say my right leg was dead to the world. And if you've ever had an epidural, you know how it goes. Sometimes you're like, oh, I can lift my leg and then you go to try and help the person lifting your leg. You're not helping. But my team that I had for the night shift, we, uh, we got that epidural move in, in the right direction. And then, uh, after my first round of shakes, I took what is one of the best naps I've ever had and that's an epidural nap and that shit hits. And then when I woke up, it was time I got the shakes again and I felt pressure.

I don't know that you necessarily people who have not felt this necessarily wanna know this, but the question that I was asked during my first labor was do you feel pressure in your rectum? And you don't know what that means until you know what it means. And then you're like, get them back in here now. I know what they're talking about. So this time around, I was like, hey,

I feel the pressure. And by that, I mean, I said, hey, I feel the pressure. And then she was here. It was delightful. Jason held up my back and helped me hold my leg and I grabbed onto Jason's arm. I'm not sure, at some point I was like, ooh, I shouldn't dig in quite that hard

because I had gripped him up. So I think I might've been a little rough, but I didn't think, that was not my focus, obviously. No. Jason did cut the cord. I will say this, when he cut the cord, it was as if he has cut three other cords because he went into that. He knew how difficult it was going to be. If you know, you know, he just snip, snip, done. It was impressive. I don't, I don't, I'm not even trying to hype him up for like the only thing that got him

through that. He said he's a very well, I I'm on record so many times saying this. He's a very well versed support person. He does great job getting water and ice. He's a very well-versed support person. He does great job getting water and ice. He checks in with me on a regular basis. He's not like standing over me trying to figure out what he can do. He does this thing. He checks in on me and he holds my backup, which is so helpful for a crunch. Because if you get a really good crunch on a push, you can really bear down and make it worthwhile. He's a great support person and was very, very helpful. But he

also nailed the cutting the court. My first meal after giving birth was Bart's Bagels, pork roll egg and cheese on everything. And oh my gosh, oh my gosh, a pepperoni pizza bagel on a plane bagel. It was so good. And Jason and I split one and the minute I bit into my half, I was like, shit, shouldn't have split it with him. But I did. God, it was so good. I'm going to get one of those tomorrow. And that's it for,

can I be honest about my birth story? I'm going to go change my ice pack now. If you know, you know, while I do that, enjoy this message from a very tired blonde woman about one of her favorite baby products, Nanit. The real ones might already know I'm a huge fan of Nanit and their amazing baby monitor from the video Jason posted a couple years ago of Wyatt singing the entire Eagles fight song from her room. It was an amazing moment of pride. Nanit is creating an entirely new experience for parents with their award-winning baby monitor and sound machine that lets you see your baby anytime, anywhere, all from the convenience of your phone. Nanit has so many features that I love, like the real-time notifications for sound, motion,

standing, and more. And honestly, the split screen is a game changer because there's so many of them. We're so outnumbered. I actually, while I was in the hospital, was able to get an alert in the morning for why it's Nan at camera. Then I tapped into it to get to say good morning to her and let her know to be nice to Nana. Yes, I really did that. And she knows to look up at the camera and talk back to me. It's a little crazy maybe, but I like it. Go to nanit.com for 20% off your first purchase with code Kylie20. Don't be sad.

Don't be sad. Mom's right here. Okay. No, I said don't. Oh, wakey wakey eggs and bakey. You want it? Your eyes look very blue against the sweatshirt. Did you say give me that microphone?

God, you're cute. I'm biased because I made you but. And we're back as is this next segment that's back by popular demand. But this time you're getting the sequel, not going to lie, presents the do's and don'ts of talking to postpartum women brought to you by Love Every. Love Every designed by experts for your child's developing brain. Please enjoy this guide on what you should and should not say to the women in your life who have just welcomed a new baby.

First up, please don't say anything about her weight or her looks in general. Chances are she's probably not sleeping very much. And quite frankly, her body just built another human. Your input is fucking irrelevant. Any of the input of you haven't had the baby yet or when can you exercise again? Breastfeeding makes the weight come off quicker. I hope she slaps you clean across the face. Also like the whole look great. Let's instead tell her she's doing great. Because who gives a shit what we look like right now?

Not I. Do ask if you can do anything to help. Some examples include bring over some food, offer to babysit the older children, help with anything around the home. I mean anything. Start the dishwasher, start a load of laundry, clean out the fridge, maybe bring over some groceries. Do not bring over treats and sweets for the older children so that they then bounce off the walls and want to jump across the couch while the mom

is holding the newborn. You see what I'm saying? Let's, let's work smart, not harder here. Okay. Uh, you should offer or ask if you can hold babies so mom can shower, go for a walk, get some coffee, uh, drink a hot drink without the risk of spilling on a child. All of those things. Don't ask when she's going to have another baby. Are you shitting me? If she's still wearing a diaper or an ice pad, what are you doing? She's not even cleared for the hanky panky. Leave that woman alone. Don't, and I cannot stress this enough, do not tell her to sleep while the baby's sleeping. That is fucking absurd. Do you know what you're supposed to do when the baby's sleeping? Watch them sleep of course. I'm kidding. But really don't tell that is one of the most asinine pieces of

advice that people give to new moms. It's not realistic. When are you supposed to eat or do anything or talk to other human beings or function if you sleep on the baby sleeps. Silly piece, that's a dumb piece of advice. This next one's a combo. Do wash your hands and don't kiss the damn baby. Okay? First of all, am I a germaphobe? Yes, well established here, okay?

But I'm going to tell you right now, the fact that people still will come into a house to meet a newborn baby and not immediately head to the sink to wash their hands with warm water and soap for at least 20 seconds is mind boggling to me. I don't want your germs on this child. She itty bitty and your germs are big. Okay, cut it out. Also, very simple. Don't kiss the baby.

Don't kiss that baby. Don't kiss them on their face, on their head, on their hands. That's awful. I wanna make this abundantly clear. I have a rule with my kids and they know it for certain. The only place you should be touching a baby if you feel inclined to touch a baby after you wash your hands is on their piggies. That's it. You'll need to touch them on their hands. Why?

Why shouldn't you touch their hands? Where do their hands go? Touch their piggies. Oftentimes they can't quite get their piggies to their mouth. Now, if they're flexible like a Wyatt, all bets are off. Don't you dare mention the stains on her clothes. Do you think she wants to be reminded of the fact that two hours ago she got spit up on and has still

forgotten to change her shirt? No, this is a no judgment zone. She's allowed to have spit up, dried milk, really anything else. The only thing you should really be tipping her off on, I'd say poop. I'm gonna go ahead and say it, cause that's just unsanitary. You see what I'm saying? Everything else, you see nothing. You see nothing.

And you smell nothing, because spit up after like 20 minutes. You know what I'm talking about. And lastly, one more bonus don't. And this one came up in the do's and don'ts of talking to pregnant women, so I'll keep it brief. Don't say shit about breastfeeding. I mean that with my whole chest.

Fed is best, motherfuckers. That's it for do's and don'ts of talking to a postpartum mother brought to you by Love Every. Let us know what I missed and which ones you've heard the most at NGO with Kylie. Next in honor of Finn, my fourth baby girl, I'm going to answer fourish questions Queen Emma thinks the real ones would like to have answered about our first few days of being a family of six. Number one, how did the girls meeting with their new baby sister go?

Benny is still ticked. She is annoyed. She told me put baby down. Why baby came? It's not going great. Wyatt is very excited. She keeps walking by and going, oh my gosh, she's just so cute. And Ellie is excited and wants to be helpful. And they both just want to keep touching her piggies. It's funny because Ellie keeps coming by and saying, can I touch her piggies?

And I'm like, she's sleeping and she's like, okay, can I touch her piggies? So yeah, we've had a few waking moments just because we needed to touch piggies and she'll be better for it, Well adjusted. Number two, you've only been home one day. What's the biggest difference going from three to four? I actually don't know because we have deployed the village. Lil' Lise, my mother, has been home and we've had my nieces, we've had our nanny, we've had just people around.

I am a firm believer in the phrase, it takes a village. You should not feel shame in asking for help or having people around, especially family because our girls absolutely love when my mom's around, when our nieces are around. So it makes for a more positive experience. I think one of the best things you can do when you bring a new baby home is make it an overall positive experience for all the other kids. So that's really what we're trying to do. Make it so that everyone's wants and needs are answered,

that no one feels that they are falling to the wayside because there's a new baby in the house. Number three, how are you doing? What's the biggest postpartum pain or annoyance for you? I'm doing great. I don't know that I would lean into thriving. I would say surviving. We have not quite gotten into a routine.

The good news is, is that we have an agreement that I am currently her favorite person. It could be that I provide the food. It could be that I smell familiar. It could be that I sound familiar. I think all of these are contributing factors to the fact that we get along the best right now. That's very convenient because there are a few things more frustrating than having an inconsolable child that no one can soothe. That'll make your head spin.

But we're not quite on a routine yet, so we're still working out the kinks. We're not really like aggressively scheduled shocker family. And so when it comes to newborns, we just sort of let them sort it out. We do the whole, like keep them in bright rooms during the day to make sure we don't mess up their days and nights. We'll try and get on a relatively good schedule. The only thing I'm really focused on right now

is making sure that she eats every two to three hours. So besides that, that's all I got going. I will say that I feel strongly every single time that that placenta leaves my body. That I get a little bit back of myself myself because that really, for some reason, those pregnancy hormones, they get me. So I automatically feel a little bit better. That being said, I just birthed a human. So it's, I mean, it's not, it's an even trade, I think. And the last one, number four, who does Finn look like the most so far? I'm pretty sure that when they picked her up from between my legs, I said, oh, it's

another Kelsey. You'll have to go to Jason on that one because I think I'm blacked out, but I'm pretty sure that when she first was removed from my womb, I said, Oh, another Kelsey. I have since thought that she has more of Ellie's nose and Wyatt's eyes. But I firmly believe that when they come out as a newborn, they look like an alien. I said what I said. I said what I said and I stand by it. And they need time, maybe like two, three weeks to start to look like themselves and also gain some weight. Cause then they get to sort of come into their own. And also this is what I will say this when they come down the shoot squeeze, and they're often swollen, sometimes even bruised on their face. So it's very hard to tell who they look like or what they're going to look like. So

this is where like three, four weeks makes a massive difference. I'm very excited to see who she looks like. I think she's going to be a combination, which is kind of what Benny was. So we'll see. I'm excited. But she definitely has, Ellie is officially our only one with blonde hair on the way out. She had like blonde peach fuzz and Finn clearly has gotten the hair of the others. So that's it. That's all I can say for certain. That's it for fourish questions. And now for the return of one of my personal favorite segments. You know what's fucked up? This week on my postpartum special, you know what's fucked up? The phrase newborn bliss. And I have the official definition right here according to Google AI. Newborn bliss refers to the intense joy and happiness experienced by new parents during

the early days and weeks after the birth of their child. It encompasses the overwhelming love, wonder, and sense of fulfillment that comes with bringing a new life into the world. Now, I will preface this with, if that is your experience, I am so happy for you. I do think to some degree with each of our children, we have had a few of those moments where it's just absolutely like you are in awe of the fact that the two of you have just come together to build another human being and that they are actually here and that they are, although alien like, adorable and that it's crazy what you have just done. But the fact that especially social media likes to sensationalize that everyone has

this newborn bliss and that it's the whole day, every day that you are just soaking up every minute of that newborn baby and that you are enjoying every second of it and that it is beautiful top to bottom. Parenthood as a whole is a lot, specifically the newborn phase because they are entirely reliant on you. They can't walk anywhere, they can't crawl anywhere, they can't tell you what they need. You're still learning each other. This is difficult, like truly challenging. And to try and say that everyone should feel newborn bliss is bananas. I have definitely experienced, like I said, bliss for each of my children, but I have also experienced a degree of baby blues or postpartum.

Specifically, I know that I had baby blues with Wyatt. I do think I had some degree of postpartum with Benny. You know it, especially when you get on the other side of it, it becomes very clear hindsight is 2020. But these are the feelings that I was having. I was openly discussing with my mom. I would openly discuss them with Jason. I would openly discuss them with friends because I was not afraid to voice the concerns or thoughts that I was having because you think to yourself, why am I having anxiety or thinking so hard about what could happen?

Am I going to drop my baby down the steps while I'm walking down the steps? Probably not. But why does my brain think that that's top concern and I'm not even going on the steps? Do you see what I'm saying? Like the thought of what happens if I roll over on my baby in the middle of the night. That's physically not possible. They're in a bassinet. The bassinet is not connected to your bed. They're also two weeks old. How is the baby? They can't get out of the bassinet.

The bassinet has sides. Bathtub. What? You want me to put this baby in water? They flail. Do I have my hand on it the whole time? Yes. Is there still a risk of drowning? Yes. Is it logical? Probably not because my hand is on them the whole time. But saying these

things out loud, these are things that I think for a very, very, very long time, women were not saying out loud because they thought to themselves, people will think I'm crazy if I say that I can't stop thinking about all the ways that my child could die. When in reality it's just your brain making sure that, well, first of all, it's your brain on hormones. This is your brain on hormones. Give yourself some credit. You just grew a human,

you're having severe hormone shifts. And if this is something that's ruling your thoughts and controlling your life and like forcing you into decisions, you should speak up. You should speak up, you should talk to someone, you should talk to your doctor. I do think it's crazy that you get a questionnaire when you're leaving the hospital and then you get another questionnaire, I believe at your six week follow up and then you're released

into the world and that's it. You're released into the world and they say, we'll see you back at your annual. That's on women's health. That's not even like, that's not even a specific doctor thing. That is like across the board, the standard of women's health postpartum. And I think part of that is the difficult part is that who are you supposed to go to? Do you go to your PCP? Do you go to your OBGYN? When do you call? This is not great.

Here's the deal. If you are postpartum, if you know someone else who is postpartum, check in on them. Speak some of your thoughts out loud to your friends, family, your loved ones. Say the things out loud so that if it is something that is alarming, that you cannot personally clock, that they are able to then say to you in a very gentle way that maybe you should call your doctor and discuss the thoughts and feelings you're having. And that's nothing to be ashamed of. The Play Kits by Love Every help families learn and play together while also inspiring hours of independent fun. Love Every's play kits include stage-based play things

that keep your child engaged, help them learn, and age up for years of play. I've actually got one here designed for Benny's age range. I would pick it up and show you, but you know what else I have? A fin in my lap. The play kit for Benny's age range includes a sink. Yeah, an actual working sink.

And it is one of the cutest things you've ever seen to see kids sit down in front of it and try to wash little dishes. It's incredible and helpful because then I'm like, hey, get up to the big sink ladies. If you're tall enough to reach it, you can do it. I'm kidding. But I do love watching them wash the little dishes. Explore the plague kits at lovevery.com. That's L-O-V-E-V-E-R-Y.com. NGL listeners can get an exclusive discount on their first subscription order by entering code Kylie at checkout. I want to dedicate a segment of today's episode to discussing the realities of postpartum depression, which brings me to today's guest. She's an

acclaimed author, therapist, and dedicated advocate for maternal mental health and postpartum mood disorders. She created the hit blog Mommy Ever After and has a brand new book out now called, Am I doing this right? Rebecca Fox star, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. I have had the pleasure of meeting you and getting to discuss some of the interesting intricacies of postpartum and the experience of hormone shifts and things like that. I'm so grateful for you joining me today. I've been open about my own struggles with postpartum for anyone who isn't familiar with your story. How did this issue become

so important to you? Well, I was a mommy blogger back in the day when Instagram didn't really exist, or it was new I didn't have Instagram back in 2010. So I started sharing about motherhood because I felt like it was kind of lonely and isolating. So I started to write about it. And then when I had my second child in 2013,

I started to not feel right. And I did what I knew how to do, which was write about it and share about it. And that's when I learned that there were other people who didn't feel quite right during and after their pregnancies too. And I had severe prenatal and postpartum anxiety and depression without knowing what those things were. And as a practicing therapist, what should new mothers, as well as their friends and family, be looking out for? So I think that baby blues are what a lot of us, most people who have children, experience. You feel exhausted. You feel completely wiped out,

you're not sleeping, you're not nourishing really well, you have a new baby or multiple children to take care of. And so I'd say that is pretty normal where you can still function. Maybe you're weepy, maybe you're exhausted, maybe things are hitting you a little bit harder. When you are going on to more than two weeks or so, when you're feeling like you're really not yourself, specifically you can't find joy in places that you normally would find joy, that's when you start want to start looking a little bit more closely and saying, maybe I need a little bit more help. Now I have said before that I definitely feel like I had baby blues specifically with our

first, to a point where I've told people that sweet spot for me was eight weeks when she started smiling at me on purpose, because then it was clear that there was a connection. Up to that point, it was transactional. She's only crying because she needs something. Once the something is fixed, then it's like, okay, I'm done. The interaction is done. But once they can smile at you, I really felt like that was the turning point for us. She also was a terrible sleeper. I found that lack of sleep, I say now is the worst form of torture. It is torture. That's how they torture people.

Because you start almost hallucinating and you are like, did I dream that or did I experience that? You're going through your everyday life in such a haze that you almost can't experience life. Baby blues for me was very true for her in a sense of up to that eight-week point, I was like, are we cool? Do we have a connection? Then it was crazy because after my first, when we brought our second home, I very much understood that after that six to eight week mark that we would feel that sort of interaction or communication. And so there was that anticipation got me through that where I didn't feel the same way, which was very

interesting to experience. You bring up a couple of really important points. First of all, just the fact that you knew you had this gut feeling that it was going to get better. That's so powerful. You knew what to expect. And I think that for a lot of people suffering, there's so much pressure on new moms, even if they're seasoned moms and they have a new child, to be so happy. Aren't you so happy? Oh my gosh, you have a baby. This is what you wanted. And that may be true, and that's often true. And at the same time, it's so hard and there's so much guilt around maybe not feeling the bond, maybe feeling

apathetic or feeling unsure or feeling bored or scared or lonely or any of those things. So I think that knowing that it will get better, that things will get better, that there's a light at the end of the tunnel can be so, so powerful. And the other thing that you raised that, um, that you brought up for me was that I don't expect you to find joy in things that ordinarily wouldn't be joyful. Who would want to be getting up in the middle of the night, being covered in poop, being thrown up on like a milk machine in whatever way you're providing milk for your baby? That's not fun. So if you're not finding joy in that, I think that that's normal.

We don't need to pathologize that. I think it's when you're not able to function in the way that we would expect you to function, that there are happy, exciting things that you can't find joy in. That's when we want to take a little bit more notice and take that a little bit more seriously. Now, you've said, and I quote, I failed the postpartum screening given as protocol by the hospital and yet they sent me home. What's missing from that screening? That's a great question. That's the reason why I am sitting here today for many reasons,

literally, because thankfully I was able to get help and then go back to school and become a therapist. But that's really my motivation is I fell through the cracks and I was so lucky, but so, so many people are going to fall through the cracks without even knowing, without anyone else knowing. So I was given a paper screening and I felt- You just filled it out yesterday. Was it still on paper? It was still on paper. You could technically do it in your portal, but I did opt for a paper version. So you did the EPDES and I suspect your provider may or may not see that survey and you answer questions that are like, are you finding joy in places you had found joy before?

And then there's a question that's, you know, to give a trigger warning, but about harm. Are you finding any thoughts about harming yourself or someone else? And I got a really high score. When I say I failed, I got a very, very high score. I was at high risk for severe postpartum depression and I was sent home. It was kind of a formality. So I think what is missing is, first of all, just education around the screenings. I think that what do you do when someone does get a high score? For me, I don't know if anyone ever saw it. So there is no way to capture me. So I think that knowing what to do, giving education and connection to people during that screening process or during the process

when they're in the hospital or even as I'm sure you're experiencing now, you see the pediatrician a lot more often than you see a doctor for yourself, right? Yes. So you go to the pediatrician, maybe there's a way for the pediatricians to capture how the mom's doing. But there are a lot of places where if we could just intervene a little bit, even just giving material to say, hey, are you feeling this way? This is normal. We don't want you to feel this way. Not normal like this is acceptable, but this is predictable. We can expect you to feel this way. And like we said, it gets better.

Right. Now, I said earlier in this episode actually, that I do think it's crazy that you fill out your questionnaire at the hospital. I do believe that at least my provider reissues it at my six week follow up. But then you're sort of like let loose, right? You're told, we'll see you for your annual visit, which is so alarming to me that the people that I have known, including my own experience, six weeks out of birth is so soon to fully wrap your head around whether or not you are having thoughts or feelings of postpartum depression or anxiety. Of course, I feel as though I have a relationship with my providers that I know that if I ever needed anything that I could always reach out to them, that they would get back to me

quickly, that they would have answers that I would need in that time. But I do think that that is not typical of most people's experience. And that even just the idea of once you are in postpartum depression or anxiety, the task of having to then call the OB office, ask to get a call back from your provider or from the nurse on call, and then to have to articulate that over the phone once they call you back. It's also the pressure of even answering that phone call. The thought of if you're in that space and you build up the courage to call, you take 10 seconds of courage and you hit the call button and you say, I need my provider or the nurse to call me back. When the nurse calls you back, if you're not having a moment of courage, who's to say

you're going to even answer that phone call? I could not agree more with that. I love that you gave that relatable scenario of you don't want to pick up the phone or you muster up the courage. Or let's say you don't even know to ask. Let's say you don't even know what's going on. You just know that you don't feel right. Like I said, I didn't know exactly what was going on. I knew that when I was pregnant with my son, I felt a lot of anxiety and then I had a scare. And then suddenly I felt numb. Nobody said to me, you're going through prenatal anxiety that morphed into prenatal depression after some trauma. Nobody said that. So I didn't know, and I should

know. I didn't even know. So I think that I love that you gave such a realistic scenario of having to find the time, the bandwidth to make a phone call and then what? And I think we release women and say, oh, you have to sleep. Is your baby sleeping? Okay, you have to sleep when the baby sleeps. That is setting up a bunch of women for failure, to feel like failures, to not be able to thrive in the way that they deserve to. Now, what would you say are the biggest misconceptions about postpartum mood disorders as a whole? That you somehow have done something wrong as a mother and that you can't have postpartum depression or a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder and love your baby and feel so grateful because I'm telling you, as someone sitting right here, I had a severe case of postpartum depression and never stopped loving my son.

Also, you can have doubts about your ability as a mother. You can think, am I going to ever connect to this baby? Do I love this baby? Do I regret this? You can feel all of those things and still be worthy and still be a wonderful human being and mother and still know that you will get through this. It's temporary. It's just like any disease. We just put so much pressure on ourselves to not feel this way and to not experience these things, but it's no different than any other

affliction, especially if you think about pregnancy, preeclampsia. Most people are not as hard on themselves about having something like preeclampsia or gestational diabetes as they are about having prenatal anxiety or depression or postpartum depression. Now, I mentioned it in your intro. You have a new book available now called Am I Doing This Right? Making Choices Without Mom Guilt. I've talked a little bit about mom guilt on the show before. What helps you work through it?

So I think mom guilt is going to exist, right? Like we all feel it at different points. I think that what I'm trying to do is normalize negative feelings in motherhood and really for our kids too. So to say here, it's actually a choose your own adventure style book. I don't know if you remember that from when we were little. Yes, absolutely. But it gives you choice points and you can make choices like, do I pick up my kid from the school nurse or do I tell them to tough it out and stay at school? And whatever thing you choose, whatever choice you make,

there are coping skills to help you get through it. It's not like, this is how to rid you forever from mom guilt because that's not realistic, that's not gonna happen. We're all gonna feel negative feelings sometimes. It's how can we cope? How can we get through these things? And so I used my evidence-based clinical background

to come up with coping skills based in DBT and CBT and other therapeutic modalities. But also as a mom, I have a middle schooler and a high schooler now. And so I've lived a lot of this. As I'm sitting here, I could be getting a call from the school nurse as we speak, and I have to make those decisions every day. And I thought, if I'm going through this, other people must be going through these things and so let's normalize them. And I do think that normalizing these negative mental health issues or moods helps

us to model for our kids that we're going to go through hard things, they're going to go through hard things, but we can get through those things instead of making it like we're all going to be happy all the time. I don't think that does a service to ourselves or to our kids. Well, I think when you have the misconception of you're going to be happy all the time that when you're not happy, you're far more likely to try and mask it because it's as if it's not acceptable. Right. I do love the idea of the choose your own adventure for the book because I think that that's one of the things that is sort of lost. I think a lot of in a lot of ways with social media about parenting that there's

not one way to parent your children. And you're not always gonna make the same choice as someone else or what someone else might deem as the right choice. And to be able to like find comfort in your decision, no matter what it is in those moments, like picking your child up from the school nurse, whether you do it or you don't do it. That's like us parenting our kids differently or making different decisions as parents is

one of the ways that we end up with unique and beautiful children. And like I talk about it with my girls all the time, like we're different because that's what's beautiful. Like you are the differences that we have with other people That's what makes you unique and if you weren't unique you wouldn't be you and so it's so cool to hear that you're offering Really that reassurance in however you choose to parent your child that it's not just the idea of it am I doing this right is really am I doing this right how I choose to do it? Circling back to postpartum and just that whole experience in your own experience, in your professional experience, what are some of the things that maybe you've heard from people that they've said to you as if it's something that they

should not have said out loud. Just in case people are segue into getting to speak to you today, I discuss sort of like those intrusive thoughts. And just sort of those things where you're like, oh, that's such an irrational thought. But you're having it. Like just like I've talked about. I was talking with Queen Emma, our producer about carrying like a baby and looking at the steps and thinking, what if I fell up the steps right now while I'm holding the baby? And although when I experienced those thoughts, it doesn't necessarily rule what I'm doing. Like I don't choose not to then go up the steps or I don't slow myself down. I sort of like just let the thought leave or at least have in the past. But what are those experiences that moms might be having

where they're not dismissing those thoughts or that you would then suggest that's that moment of sort of realization? I love that you said you let the thought go because that's like the perfect DBT, CBT skills in action that you probably don't even realize you're doing. But I think that when you're dealing with specific intrusive thoughts or those scary things that you might fear that you think about or you might fear could happen, saying there's no relationship between how much I believe something or me thinking something and how true it really is. So if you're able to kind of talk yourself through that and still go on, like you said you're able to do,

you might think it, you might have a little bit of a fear about it, you might consider it, and then you're able to go on. I think if you are not able to still go on with your normal functioning, then that's when it's really important to speak about it. And it can feel really, really scary to speak. Now, I'm really glad that you talked about postpartum mood disorders, because people think about postpartum depression. There's

postpartum rage, there's postpartum OCD, postpartum psychosis, and there's really a range of a lot of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. And I think that when they disrupt your functioning, so you're not able to go along and still walk up the stairs, that's when you really have to ask for help, whether it's from a friend, your practitioner, some other professional, a partner, someone in your life. You don't have to even know how to ask for help. You can just say something isn't right. Rebecca, I cannot thank you enough for coming on and talking to me today. Is there anything else that you feel really strongly that you want to make sure I said that we didn't touch on today?

Because I do want to make sure that if there's anything that we missed that it hits the ears of our listeners. Someone said to me when I was suffering, this too shall pass. And so I want to say that to anyone who may be suffering today. I know it may sound like, oh, yeah, it's easy to say. I've been there. I've lived it. And I will tell you that moments of suffering can feel profound, but they are temporary. They don't have to define the rest of your life.

This will pass. And it can be very, very scary to ask for help, but you deserve to feel better. You deserve to ask for help and you can get help. We have great ways to treat postpartum depression and other mood disorders now and we can help. Thank you so much. I've so enjoyed talking to you. I am such a fan of your work and appreciate the fact that you have taken your own experience, understood the gravity of what you went through, and then decided to impact just a population of women who not only need help but deserve it. Thank you so much.

Back at you. Thank you so much again to my guest, Rebecca Foxstar for joining me. And that's a wrap on my postpartum special. I'm officially going on maternity leave for a little bit. So we recorded a few incredible episodes just before I had the baby. I can't wait for you guys to see who I had, of course, no business talking to. And make sure you tune in next Thursday to a brand new episode. You won't want to miss it. Listen and subscribe to Not Going to Lie.

Wherever you get your podcast, follow the show on all social media at NGL with Kylie. Not Going to Lie is a Wave Original brought to you by Nanette. Thank you guys again for tuning in.