Not Skinny But Not Fat - Ava Max is Sweet But Psycho

Episode Date: February 21, 2023

Ava Max, international pop star with hits like Sweet But Psycho, Kings & Queens, Maybe You're the Problem, and the new euphoric dance album that I can’t stop listening to: Diamonds & Dancefloors talks making music, future goals, her alter ego, working with her brother, dream collab, the Max haircut, her type in a dude & more!  Produced by Dear Media This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. I've been ordering from DoorDash for years, right? It's like, okay, sushi, Thai food, what are we eating tonight? Let me door dash it up. Also, DoorDash is always the quickest one, right? Like, whenever we're ordering and we need it to come in a hurry, we just know that it's DoorDash. So isn't it so exciting that DoorDash is now delivering groceries? So if you need fresh groceries for the week and you don't have time to go to the store,

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my time talking about reality TV celebrities, everything happening and pop culture. I also talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality TV stars. We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday. day and just feel like you're talking and shit with your best friends in your living room. Amanda. No, I can't call you Amanda. You're Ava Max. Oh, gosh. I know, but I definitely am Mandy at home. You're Mandy at home? Mandy. Like your family and friends? My dad just goes, Mandy, Mandy, Mandy, yeah. Very strange. How do you turn it on and off?

I think I just, I like not being Ava M.I. It's like Beyonce's Sasha Fierce. Yeah, she's Sasha Fierce for sure. And you're, so you're only when you're on stage, you're Ava Max, and when you're with your fans and social media. Yeah, just Instagram. Just Instagram. And Twitter and performances, basically everything.

You're a TikTok girly, too, though, I saw. Yeah, I try. I try. know you got to do what you got to do nowadays but i like ticot you do i actually sit up late at night watching ticot's for two hours i'm one of those people i don't get it yet i like watching i more than i like making them yeah so i don't think the algorithm gets me yet your for you page knows what you like i get a lot of astrology really i love astrology like i'm like tell me my future so wait your birthday is this week everybody yeah we're recording this it's the 13th today

Your birthday's on the 16th. Yeah. Is it 29 you're going to be? Oh, a woman never reveals right. I mean, the internet reveals me. Come on. Oh, no, internet lies. Actually, that's wrong.

Wait, so what's the sign, though, for February? Aquarius. You're Aquarius. But I'm two days away from Pisces. I had an astrologer once tell me that I turned Pisces at two years old. Don't you find that weird? I know that Aquarius people are like the best people, though. I know.

I'm split, I think. I think sometimes I'm Aquarius and I love being around people. And then sometimes I'm at Pisces and I'm home. Herman. I'm like, don't get near me. I want to stay in my room all day. Like, I don't want to talk to anyone. But then other days, I'm like, whoa, let's party. I'm like, I just want to go crazy. So maybe you're a Gemini because that's like too pretty. I'm a Gemini. There has to be. There has to be Gemini. Some Gemini annual? I didn't see it in my chart, though. You guys, Ava Max is here. International pop star. Really? That cracks me up.

Why? I don't know. You don't feel it. Like, it doesn't feel real to you yet? I mean, it does because I travel a lot, but I'm just a nerd to myself. Really? Yeah. Well, you don't look like a nerd. You know, by the help of an amazing team. Okay, you need to tell me everything. So you moved a lot when you were younger, right?

You were born in Wisconsin? And then there was Virginia. Milwaukee. And yes, that makes me a cheesehead, I think. And South Carolina. And then South Carolina was like a few years in between during my teenage years, which was very weird like I got bullied like I was like oh yes I'm gonna I was homeschooling for a bit so I'm like oh I was in South Carolina my dad had some work there and I was so excited to try out high school I went the worst experience ever I was like get me out I was like I do not want to be here what what year was that in high school I tried it when I was 16 years old oh so you moved like actual public high school because I was doing homeschooling so that means like they had their freshman year sophomore year together and you like came in the middle I came and sophomore yeah yeah it was just very strange kids were me really yeah like about what i had my little

peanut butter and crustable on the on the toilet like i was eating it because i just didn't want to be around it was horrible what what were they mean to you about i don't know they thought i want like this one girl on the cheerleading squad she thought i wanted her boyfriend i remember his name william it was really weird did you want william no i was just sitting next to william eating my And then she literally created this whole story that I wanted William. And I'm like, dude, William's not even my tie. Girls can be so mean, especially in high school. So why did you move around so much, your dad? No, my music. So I moved to L.A. when I was 14 for music with my family, not by myself. And so we came to L.A. No one wanted to sign a 14-year-old singer who sang,

right? Everyone sings in L.A. They're like, what? You can sing? Oh, great. Everyone sings. So I thought it was going to be easier than that. And so you left, right? It was like too overwhelming. I mean, my parents were just like, we're going to give it a year when you're 14. And they did. And they sold their house. And you moved home.

They're very supportive, Albanian parents. And you have one brother. One brother who's not creative whatsoever in the music realm. He's not? My brother's a black sheep. Everyone else is creative. Wait, but so your parents, it always fascinates me when parents do this. Like gave up, like knew that you wanted it so much.

Did they want it for you or they just knew you wanted it so much? I really love to sing. My mom saw that and she sang growing up to opera. So she loved that we could sing together. And then, you know, I started doing singing competitions. But, you know, where do you go from singing competitions? What are you doing in Virginia, right? Yeah.

From music. And my mom and I would talk and she's like, we need to be in L.A. Wow. So that's what we did. And then you get to L.A. And then what? Like your mom tried to like schedule a meeting? I mean, my brother at the time was,

helping manage me in a way, in a way, like trying to help me meet people, producers, songwriters, people at labels, again, everyone was like, what are you doing here? Like, it was just, like, it's rude. Were you, like, edgy like you are today? No, no. What were you like? Oh, my goodness. I wore all black.

I had a Roxy sweatshirt. It had red writing on it. I'm trying to remember. And I would wear that red Roxy sweatshirt everywhere. And I thought it was so cool. And I had black jeans. with like rips on the knees, like huge holes on the knees. Yeah.

You know that look? Yeah. And I had some bands and then I had some boots. But my boots were not cute. Like, I don't know what I was thinking. Who was like inspiring you at the time? I remember close to that time Katie Perry came out with I kissed a girl. And I just remember freaking out and loving it.

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I added K because Amanda was kind of like, you know, on its own. I'm like, I don't know. This doesn't sound very pop star. I know. Do you know what Amanda means in Latin? what she who must be loved oh i love isn't it i love it's like the it's for reals like my i was like mom is that why you named me that she's like nope but but it's true oh yeah i got a tattooed on me maybe you should too oh where is your tattoo like under my boob oh i love that yeah i didn't know

that do you have any tattoos no i because i feel like i want a lot i have a lot of things that mean a lot of things yeah and i don't know because i'd have a sleeve you would i would you would I love a sleep. Good with a sleep. Thanks. Honestly, I think so, too. I want to sleep. You're like an all or nothing kind of girl.

That's me. That's you. Okay, so Amanda Kay, was that at the, when you were like 14? Amanda Kay was 14. It didn't last very long. I played a prank on my brother and Ava came about. I didn't have a middle name. So Albanians normally don't give their kids middle names normal.

And so I didn't have a middle name. I always wanted a middle name because, you know, I grew up around all American. kids who had middle names. Yeah. I have one. Dumb. Oh, what's yours? I'm Nicole, but it's so like Amanda Nicole, but it's like, where do you use it? Like, what do you do with it? I mean, it's great. I really wanted to want them. I'm telling you. So when I played a prank of my brother and Ava came about, I was like, Ava is my new stage name and I want to go to court and legally make it my middle name. So I went with my dad. I got so excited. I was like, we're going to court. We're going to change it. Or we're going to add it.

Yeah. And you did. Yeah. It's officially, so at that time, you just made it your middle name. That's it. And then later on, you made it your stage name. I did. And then Max came along because I just felt like Ava got a little too sweet for me after having it for so long. I'm like, just Ava, I'm like, hmm, I need a little masculine. Yeah. Because I feel like I'm a little feminine and a little masculine. So Max, I was searching names and I just loved the name Max. I've always loved this name Max. I had a friend.

Actually, in middle school, who his name was Maximilian, and he was the funniest kid. And so, I was like, it's Max came about. It does sound really, like, hardcore. I hope so. I love that. Okay, so you were also saying this when we came in the studio, like, you're not a fan of lights, cameras, all that shit. No. That's surprising.

I know. Tell me about that. I just feel awkward in front of the camera. You do? Like right now. what makes you feel like what helps what helps like ease that for you caffeine does not help does not help it creates more anxiety yeah but what helps i guess doing it more and more

yeah dimming some lights if the lights are too bright i just walk out of the room i'm like i can't wait if it's like on stage though does that feel like i like it dark and and vibey on stage you can have like the tiniest spotlight on me i don't really want to be the center of attention i don't like it that's so Wild. I know. I don't even know how I, you were saying to me before, like, you wish you could just sing and, like, for people not to see you. Yeah. So would you consider yourself shy? You know, is that what I am? I don't know, because I am pretty wild too. Yeah. Can you be shy and wild at the same time? I think you can. So how is it like you're here right now? It's New York Fashion Week. You're like from one thing to the next. How are those days for you? Are you like anxious, overwhelmed? No, fashion shows are fun. It's weird because, like, you're like, Like everyone's on the front row, right? So it's not just me. Not everyone.

Well, you know what I mean. So you're here for New York Fashion Week. Yes. What was your favorite show so far? I really liked area, really cool. They had, like, I don't know, like bananas on their dresses. Bananas on their dresses? But not, like, actual bananas.

Yeah. Like avant-garde bananas. So when you meet, like, celebs or other famous people at these types of things, do you say hi to, like, the ones? You know, yeah. I do. It's just funny because, you know, you know. I don't know if everyone wants to talk sometimes. So I'm just chilling.

I'm just like, if someone wants to talk, I'm right here, I'm just, I'll talk. But I'm just like here for the show. Yeah. You know? But it's a really fun, easy thing, I think, for me. Because once again, I don't need to be the center of attention. And I love that. I can just sit there and enjoy the show.

Yeah. You're not like everybody. Here I am. Yes. Pay attention to me. Yes. I'm just like with my binoculars and like looking at the fashion. Just like, yeah.

So your album, Heaven and Hell from 2020. I mean, that song, Sweet But Psycho. Oh, that one. I mean, that was huge, huge hit. Was that what, like, skyrocketed you to the next level? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that was the song.

And I heard that right before that you were about to, like, give up. Yeah, the night before. The night before? I remember crying in a ball, alone, and I was just crying. crying. I was like if this song, you know, because I had the song in my phone for like a year before that. And I didn't put it out. And I was just waiting and waiting and like just writing more songs. And I was scared. You know, I was just like if this doesn't go and if this is the best I can do and people still don't like my music, then I don't, I don't know if this is this really my

path. Yeah. So I was praying and praying all night. And then within a matter of weeks, went number one everywhere. So who knows, it might have been God. Wow. Were you like, were you just like reveling in the success of it or were you at the same time getting a little anxious like, oh shit, it's happening? I definitely, I believed in prayers starting then from then on. Really? I really did. Prayer is a big thing now because I'm like, I pray. before every performance and I do this thing where I just like I do this cross but it could be anything it's like cutting ties with anything negative on you or negative energy so I do this thing right before stage and it just helps yeah I think it just cuts ties with anything bad on you I'm very

spiritual too now yeah and tell me about the song I mean it's a bob of course yeah like were you writing it about yourself do you feel sweet with psycho I mean who isn't I have never felt more connected to a song than sweet it's like really actually you know it's taking everything within me everybody to not belt it out right now like I don't know what to do how many times did I sing it before she came

yeah really and and and I it's such a like I can't not you just want to do it but I'm not going to do it stop asking everybody I'm not well the truth is like you know we all have two sides yeah not just you know like in astrology not just Gemini's I think all of us have two sides yeah to us so I think that's

why that song was so relatable. Right. And also relatable because it sounded like, you know, a dude calling you psycho when you like. That's another thing. Yeah. It's like women get called cycle all the time. Right. And it's not cool. Like, are you on your period? I know. I think men are on their period all the time, but they just don't believe. So did that come like from that? That is so true. I really think we need to look into that for a minute. I know. No, they couldn't handle being on their period. They couldn't handle. No, the pain, no pain, no blood, but they're on their period. Yeah. So was that inspired from a specific relationship or was it just your experience? It was inspired by specific situation, but also about other situations

that I've encountered, like, and other situations that I've heard of, like, and yes, being called psycho a lot. Yeah. Do you feel like in relationships you can, like, flip pretty quickly? Like, Do you see that? Oh, what? Like when you're in a relationship, can you be a little bit psycho? You know, I don't believe it's psycho. I believe it's called calling it out for what it is. You know, I really believe that.

I think if you see something, you should call it out. Yeah. Right away. Be like, and if the person's not cool with it, like walk away. Yeah, I would really say. Or they can walk away. Like, and also find someone who can handle your psycho. And if they can't, then they're not.

I know because some people get, I guess, you know, I don't know what the right word is for this, but they can't handle certain personalities. And it's like, then don't date that certain personality. Don't just call that person a psycho because you can't handle that person or that energy, right? Yeah. That, I guess, exciting energy because I feel like I'm the type of person where I wake up excited for life every day. So if someone doesn't like that, they can just walk up a day. Are you a morning person? No.

you're excited for life inside no no no oh my god it's so funny when i'm in a relationship if someone turn i hate it like this is my peppy when someone just turns on the night lamp on right when they wake up and i'm just like turn that shit off i'm like why why do you have to turn it on the moment you open your eyes like just like like relax for a second yeah like that night light comes on in the morning i'm just like no turn on the bathroom light let the light come through from like over the natural light like not in my face yeah She doesn't like lights people. We're getting to something here.

No, no. You're not really open about your relationships, right? Like, no one knows like your dating history. No. Really? I like to keep it under the radar. Have you dated, like, famous people? I mean.

Maybe. I mean, like, here and there. Here and there. But what's even dating, right? No, what is dating? I don't know. I don't even know. Are you into dating right now?

Yes, I'm dating now. Oh, you're dating, like, one person or around? Is this one person? I don't even know. I think, I think so. I think it's one person. Oh, wait, do you see yourself, like, settling down and, like, having that, like, like, a family, all that stuff? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. I want my kids. I want to adopt. Yeah? I want adopt kids. Like, I want a big fan. But not now.

But, yeah. I mean, you're young. Yeah, like, I'm at the airport. I hear a screaming baby. I'm just like, I'm not pregnant. Oh, really? Oh, no. You're one of those people that gets me.

mad about the screen babies not mad no I want to pick them up I want to pick them up and like really like like like calm them down yeah but like no I don't get freaked out over it it is like you're just like I'm not ready for that exactly it's a reminder that I'm gonna wait to change those like wait so your fans get pretty crazy they call themselves the avatars right yeah so do they try to like find shit out about your life because you know how like fans can get like and they do sometimes I see things online and I'm just like how did they find that out really then I don't answer and so it's still it's still a mystery oh good no she is mysterious that's my goal in life unsuccessfully to be mysterious but you like managed to do it somehow i have to i have to keep it up

because i don't like my personal life being out there yeah so i thought i had a unique observation that you resemble lady gaga but then i saw that everyone says it does that get annoying it doesn't get annoying you know i can't help that i look like this like i woke up like is. Yeah. But I feel like it's more than just like the look. Like it's not it's it's it's like it's I get it like we're both like five two we're both you know shorter where you both have blonde hair. Yeah. She's Italian. And like the style a little I'm Albanian you know so it's similar vibes. I see that but I she's a queen you know. Yeah. I love her. Did you get to meet her? No. That would be the day. That would be the day. A duet. Love her. Would she be your dream collab? I think a collab with her would be a memorable one. Yeah, that's for sure. And any

other, like, artists that you dream to collab with? I would love to do a song. I just love, I love how Doja makes music. I think Doja can. Wow. That would be cool. I think that'd be fun. How do we make that happen? That'd be a fun. That'd be a fun club. That would be. How do you do that? Do you like, sometimes it comes like from personal. I don't like. I don't like. I don't like. push things like you know i i'm i just think whenever something's meant to be yeah it'll be but you know i love collabs as you know i do a lot of collabs yeah i feel like that will happen the doja i'm putting it yeah no she's super cool what did you think the super bowl was just last night riana performed did you watch it yes what do you think she wore like my favorite color red i love it and the red lipstick

and the marshmallows were amazing like i loved her dancing would the super bowl be like a dream of yours Oh, yeah, that's the goal. Really? Well, that's one of the goals. That's what I always wonder, like, are there, like, when you see those huge things. I already have, like, ideas, what I want to do as a super goal. Oh, yeah. I already see it in my head, but I got to keep it underlock and key.

Oh, my God. Okay. So your new album, Diamonds and Dance Floors, came out in 2022. Yes. I was writing that album. Oh, man. It took like two years, and I started writing it during. the end of the pandemic.

Oh, wow. Closer to the end, because I didn't really make music during the beginning of the pandemic. I wasn't inspired. I was terrified, you know? Like, we all weren't. And so I was just watching Tiger King

and cooking gluten-free crepes. Oh, my God, Tiger King. You guys. I was just being a little, like, little housewife by myself, like making gluten-free crepes, trying out different pastas, and then watching Tiger King,

which also was wild. And I just was scared to breathe the air outside. So I wasn't thinking about making music Right. It's only at the end. So you started writing this album. Diamonds and Dance Floors was the first song. That title track was the first song that started the album.

I love the million dollar baby. Oh, thank you. It's one of my favorite songs. I know. It's so good. Thank you. It's such a bop. Like your songs are just so fun.

Highly recommend to just like blast it in your car. I read that the way this album, it's euphoric pop music. Like it's not just pop like, oh, kiss a girl. Like I like that. word, euphoric. But it's like there is some vulnerability in there. It's all personal. I mean, this album is so personal. And no one believes me when I say this, but I never wanted to write about my personal relationships. I really didn't. And because I just wanted to keep that private. Yeah. But when I started going through heartbreak and everything I went through during the

making of this album, that was literally all I could write about. And somehow you made it fun. I had to because I started writing this album. I wanted to make it a dance album, right? So I took all the sad lyrics I was writing and I kind of turned it up and out. So you knew you wanted it to be dance. And then you wrote the songs like about how you were feeling and then you just, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, some of them started off as ballad.

Like get out of my heart started kind of like a ballad. One of us started off as a ballad. Maybe you're the problem. Maybe the problem did not start off as bowled. That was an angry song. I was angry that day. That is so true, though. Like, maybe you're the problem.

Take the finger right there. It's like a line. Take the finger. Yeah, point your little finger. Your little finger. It's really funny. It's so true, though. Like, maybe you're the problem.

Yeah. I mean, I think, like, again, going back to Sweet But Psycho, it's kind of similar to how, you know, being called crazy and saying you're the problem when, in fact, maybe the other person is the problem and they need to stop freaking out over maybe a small thing you did. then when they're doing 50 things, then you're not even noticing them, like, that are bothering you, right? So I think that song was really inspired by a situation I went through the day before writing that song.

And I said this to someone. I was in a relationship. Oh, you said that line. Maybe you're the problem. Yeah, I said that. How did they take it? After the song was out, they weren't happy.

Oh, they knew it was about them. Yeah. Wow. So did you get, like, angry messages? Yes. I mean. But it's not even, like, And no one knows it was. It wasn't even my intention. Yeah. It was just how I felt in the studio. And then I didn't even realize I said it the day before until I wrote it. And then when I heard the song back, I'm like, wait, I said this to this person. I'm so jealous. That's how music works, you know. And I think you can't help but write how you're feeling. At least I can't. I can't. I'm not good at telling lies. I feel like I get so jealous of artists and musicians because I feel like you guys get your emotions out. And so.

a productive way. Very therapeutic way, too. It's very therapeutic, especially this last album for me. It's going to be very hard to sing one of us, though. I think that song, it gets me every time. And I can listen to my music, even if it's sad, it's fine. One of us, I have a hard time listening to and I have a hard time singing it. So I don't know. I don't know if I'm ever going to sing that song. Stop. I don't know. Oh, my God. It really hits my heartstrings. Isn't it wild that some habits you get stuck in until you change it? Like I was drinking coffee for so long, knowing that it caused me headaches, knowing that it caused me anxiety, knowing that it caused me more stomach pain. I was like, I'm not going to like, oh, this habit until freaking worse comes to worse and worse did come to worse.

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deep dive into the psychology of behavior or change available to buy now wherever books are sold okay guys i've been raving about macy's on this podcast for a while now reminding you the macy's is you know what we grew up on i am so proud to be a macy's partner not only am i you know i'm a millennial so yes i've embraced the change of just our culture our shopping habits but I just remember Macy's as being the place I went to with my mom. If I was like, Mom, I need a new watch. You know, it'd be like, okay, we'll go to Macy's over the weekend. If I was like, okay, mom, I need, you know, Britney Spears's new perfume or Paris Hilton's new perfume or a new pair of running shoes or whatever it may be, it was like, okay, we'll go to Macy's and we'll get it.

I'm actually getting chills thinking about it because it's just so true. And it was, you know, it's just a special family moment. So it makes me proud to be a Macy's partner on many levels. But it also makes me proud to be a Macy's partner because since signing the 15% pledge in 2020, Macy's has increased the number of black-owned brands they carry eight-fold. So now during Black History Month and all year long, they're continuing their support for black creators, change makers, and causes. So join Macy's in celebrating Black History and Black Brilliance by shopping Black-owned brands.

You can help fund scholarships for students. students at historically black colleges and universities by donating online and rounding up in store for UNCF. Learn more at macy's.com slash purpose. That's macy's dot com slash purpose. Do you guys slide into your DMs? Yes. Stop. Yeah.

Like blue check marks too? Some, yeah. Really? It's just very, it's very awkward for me because I just like end up on accident opening it. And I know you can see it. But then I don't say anything, so I kind of... So you leave them unread. I look like a bitch, but I'm busy, you know.

Yeah. She's busy. Okay. So we want to get to know your type a little bit. Okay. So I'm just going to do one Mary Fuck Hill so we can, like, deduce from that. Okay, I'm excited. What Ava Max looks for her and a dude.

Mary Fuck Kill. I love it. Okay. You're really going to get to know me now. Wait, okay. M.G. Jack Harlow Justin Bieber

No no no I can Why Okay do it again Okay MGK Jack Harlow Justin Bieber Mary fuck Kel

Yeah This is a scream No this I'm actually doing this Let's start from the fuck Okay no no I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it We're gonna do fuck Yeah fuck

I feel like we're gonna be surprised Whatever it is Fuck Yes Oh, this is really hard for me. No. Okay, fuck. Yeah. I'm guessing. Machine gun Kelly. Is that bad? No, that's just, like, too obvious. I thought you would, like, surprise me.

No. I take it back. No, don't take it back. I would kill. Machine and Kelly? Yeah. Okay. If I had to pick one from all three, because I feel like he would like it. He would be like it. He would like it. No, no, he would like it. Leading is so cool. Because I heard he likes blood. So I didn't kill him. Okay. And then, oh, God. Mary Jack Carlo fuck Just me for a go But I talk to you later I'm going to pass on now

Wait Married Jack Carlo Okay Okay no Okay I think I did that right Because I think

She did it right Because I think She's thinking about all the things You guys Yeah you have to really think Logistically I love that See I feel like

This gives us something I want to talk to you More about your How you broke out Because I feel like People can You know hear your song sweet but psycho or hear any of the news she's still on the merry fuck hill

no because i can't believe i just love it so people can hear your amazing new songs right and be like oh this new artist she's so cool you know all you've been grinding since you were no of course but i also i have to say i also feel like i've said this a lot in the last month because i feel it with this new album out i feel like it's just the beginning and especially because i'm going on my first headline tour this year and finally i know the fans have been wanting it but you know, for reasons I won't disclose, I wasn't, I couldn't tour. So I, I'm now able to tour and I'm very excited. Ooh, when are the New York days?

Oh, I don't know. I think June. Ooh. I think June. Yeah. Hey. I'm so excited. Okay.

So you don't get bothered if people are just discovering you now and be like, oh, you know, here's even, like, even though you've been around since. I don't get bothered because I know it was out of my control not to tour, right? Like, I wanted to tour from the moment sweet but Psycho came out. It was all out of my control. There was nothing I could have done. So you give a lot of credit to Henry Russell Walter circuit, right? Yes.

The Einstein of music, I call him. Really? Yeah. So he really kind of helped. He's a producer. Mm-hmm. And he produced. Basically everything.

Basically everything. Every single song. How did you meet him? I met him at Chateaumarmont when I was 20. years old when I was 20 years old and I went in with my girlfriend we were just hanging out I was in L.A. I was just like you know we were going out with the girls and he was there and I sang him happy birthday after meeting him 10 minutes his friends were like come over here somebody sing this guy happy birthday it's his birthday and my girlfriend was drunk and she goes she's a singer

she's going to sing she's going to sing happy birthday and of course I sang it so like you know big Kind of like almost like Christina vibes. Oh, not Marilyn Monroe. Yeah, yeah, exactly, because I wasn't even thinking. And then they're like, no, sing it again. But then say, so I had to sing it again because they wanted it again. And so I said, sure, they're like, but they wanted it at Marilyn Monroe. Oh, they wanted like.

So I started whispering it. And that was really awkward. Then we started laughing for like two hours after about that encounter. And we all became really close. And he texted me hi. And we started hanging out and making music and all that good stuff. And the rest is history. Wow. Wait, so did you, so he would just happen to be there that night. It was a random, random encounter. And can I tell you something crazy? I knew everybody that worked with him, all the producers and songwriters, he worked with all the time. I knew. I just had never met Circuit. And so Circuit was the only one I hadn't met from where he would work at a studio. Because I worked with, like, I worked with a lot of people. I worked with, you know, Jay Cash. I worked with Ammo who worked in the same area, like with him.

but never circuit. So, and it's random and almost meant to be that I met him out like that. It was like meant to be. Did you, were you like fan girling a little bit? I didn't know who he went. Oh, you didn't even know what he looked like. No, no, no, no. I didn't even know oven.

Oh. I'm telling you. I didn't even know how much. We became friends out first right away. Wow. So he, you guys, for those that don't know circuit, he produced for for Miley Cyrus, Bernie Spears. The weekend, yeah, he's done.

He did Starboy. I feel it coming. like he's he's incredible wow and you still so he worked on this album as well yeah he did everything yeah he's the executive producer oh my god okay so many things happen i feel like from you kind of not only working hard but i mean the word manifesting annoys me sometimes but no it's true but you know what i think about manifesting yeah i think manifesting is just another term of like working towards your goal we're twinsies right that's all it is because that's energy when you work it's energy and that's yes essentially manifesting so i think

People get it confused. Like, you're not just going to... Yeah, it's not like ju-ju-jaja. It's not like it's in the air. Like, I see it. Yes, you can visualize it. Actually, I believe in visualizing. But it's also the combination of a lot of things, like completely immersing yourself.

Like, for instance, before Sweet But Psycho, I don't even think I had a day off for like a year. I was in the studio twice a day, every day in sessions. And that right there, now that I think about it, yes, it could have been me sad and praying, whatever. But it's also all that. energy I put a year before Sweet But Psycho, just living in that studio. Wow. With circuit. Yeah.

And just going in and out of sessions, nonstop. That's all I lived. I, what did they say? Eat, breathe, sleep. Yeah. I did that. Wow. And I think that says a lot.

You have to sacrifice something. I believe that. Put it in the work. The universe sees that. Yeah. The universe feels that. Right. And you can't lie to the universe.

Yeah. I said something about manifesting once and people were like, that's taking credit away from the person if you're saying like, oh, it was manifesting. But I said what you said exactly. It's work. No, it's part of like the working hard towards what you want, which you totally did. Thinking about a constant. Yeah.

Wanting it non-stop. Yeah. And I think, again, the universe knows when you don't really want. Yeah. That's amazing. I love stories like this. And you're going to have a higher purpose. I really believe that.

Yeah. You know, I think giving is... I love to give. Yeah. But I know a lot of people love, you know, to do other things and other people have higher purposes as well. I think for me, it's giving. I get so much joy when I give.

Hmm. So. What are some things that are important to you? Family. Family. My fans. I know I read that you said you really wanted to, like, provide for them. Yeah.

I bought my parents' house. It made me really happy. So. Like that just like, I feel like that enhanced my life. Oh. spiritually, emotionally. That's amazing. You know, because my parents were immigrants here.

They worked so hard. I watched them struggle. I watched them like old jeans to make a pillow. They didn't have money when I was younger. So, like, they struggled. And they made it on their own. And I saw that. You know, I saw their work ethic.

So they taught me a lot. Yeah. That's amazing. In a sharp turn, we just didn't talk about your hair yet. And, like, it's very important. It's looking amazing right now. But it is also symmetrical, which wasn't, which wasn't the max cut. I know.

Who is that girl? I don't even remember that girl. Really? What do you look? Okay. So the max cut. Let's talk about it. You had an asymmetrical cut, which was very, like, ambitious.

It was daring. I mean, no one else really had that. Thank you. So one side was short, like totally like a bob. And one side was long. How did that happen? Just me playing around with like different like wigs and cutting my own hair, dying my own hair. playing around like I had so much free time and I was just like I want to change my hair yeah I want to do

something different I feel like one I didn't feel like myself I didn't feel like I had found myself yet and right when I cut my hair I felt like I I saw myself really for the first time it was weird how long do you have that cut for five years my actual hair was cut like that I never felt more myself than I did with that so changing that It was big for me. It was huge. How did you decide to do that? But I believe in change.

Yeah. And evolution. And not to say it'll never come back. I love it so much. Really? I really do. I love it. I think I just, right now, I'm okay with changing my hair a lot and just different

hair. Right, because you had like red. Yeah. It doesn't, it just, I don't want it to define me. It's not who I am anymore. So then it was like, was there a meaning behind it? Yes. It's all about, you know,

know, I felt like the message behind it, I had a song come out after Stupid Psycho is called So am I. It's about not fitting in a box. Like, you're not putting yourself in the box that people want you to be like perfect, right? And how people see you. Like doing what you want to do, even if it's like a weird haircut and all everyone thinks it's stupid and you should take it off. It's like, no, I'm going to rock it and I'm going to do what I want because I want to do what I want. And it's basically a message about being who you are not caring about what anyone else thinks. Did people copy you? I mean, who has it? Like, who had the guts? Like, I mean, it was a lot of Halloween costumes for sure. But I always encourage people to do what they

want to do. You know, I never want anyone to like, freaking do exactly the same thing. I encourage people to do what they want to do. You also change your album artwork. Yeah. So I have a thing on my Instagram that I say about myself. You said change is good. I call it like flipping. Like, I'll flip on something real quick. I'll be like, I'll, you know, never do this. And I'll be like, well, did it, kind of like it. And I always say that it's like, okay. Like, you can change your, so you seem to have that vibe too. It's like, I can change.

Yeah, you can do whatever you want at the end of the day. I had the first album cover, which I really love, by the way. I just had it for too long and the album date got moved back. And I was just like, ah, this is a new energy now. When too many months go by and something's not out yet for me, I have to switch it up. Yeah. Because it doesn't feel new anymore to me. Yeah.

And I want to enjoy it too. And I learned about you from the time we had together. like you're a perfectionist like you want yeah and so you know how you want it yes i am i mean i edit all videos with the editor really side by side all music videos pictures colors everything wow stories for videos like i want to be involved in everything okay so huge year coming up the tour what else what else is exciting oh traveling just like yeah i feel like i just want to be with my fans everywhere. That's so exciting.

I'm excited to perform for sure. Ava Max. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. You're amazing. You are so sweet. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat.

Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoo. Drew. Thank you guys so much for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.