Not Skinny But Not Fat - Bye Bravo w/ Carole Radziwill

Episode Date: March 30, 2021

Ex RHONY cast member Carole Radziwill shares why she left RHONY, her falling out with Bethenny and if any of the housewives are actually friends. We also talk about her v interesting life before housewives, how she got on the show, how she slides into dms, and her favorite words: misogyny and patriarchy. Support the show by supporting our sponsors! Billie: To express a little love for our show go to MyBillie.com/NOTSKINNY - It’s a small way you can support us WHILE getting the BEST razor you will ever own. Curtsy: If you want a sustainable way to get Brandy, Urban, Champion, and Lulu delivered directly to your door, download Curtsy today and enter promo code notskinny for 15% off your first order. Huzzah: Stock up on HUZZAH Probiotic Seltzer by using code NOTSKINNY for 20% off your order at drinkhuzzah.com. SoulCycle: Get your SoulCycle at-home bike TODAY by visiting MySoulCycleBike.com/NOTSKINNY, and use promo code NOTSKINNY to get a complementary pair of at-home Select cycling shoes with your purchase. Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Well, hello. I'm Kitty Maloney, and you probably know me from a little show called Banner Bumper Rolls. I've been labeled all kinds of things. A bitch, a bully, and a mean girl. But there is so much more to a person than what you see on TV. Tune in every Friday as I talk to some of my friends and castmates, celebrities, comedians, medical professionals, and maybe some political figures. By the time we're done, you're going to love me. This is Amanda Hirsch from the Not Skinny but Not Fat podcast. You might know me from Not Skinny Bonap on Instagram where I spend my time talking about reality TV, celebrities, everything happening and pop culture every Tuesday.

Okay. I also talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality TV stars. We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday. and just feel like you're talking with your best friends in your living room. Today's episode is with

Carol Radzwell. I am obsessed with this woman. She is my new favorite person, I think, on the earth. Like, everything you thought she was by watching Real Houseies of New York. She is legit that she's times a gazillion better. like Roney missed out on this bad ass bitch. I just love her. She literally, I hate this phrase, but spills the tea. She's super open about her experience with Bravo. Like what went down and listen behind the scenes, she's even more savage. Like she is just everything. She's so smart. She's so fun. She's so stylish. Like I'm obsessed with her and we're friends now. So be very, very jealous of me. So before we get to that interview with Carol, oh my God, you guys, it's been

a freaking a week i feel like so many like a i know i've been going on an emrata like my husband keeps asking me like you're still talking about her like he's scared she's gonna like i don't know kill me because it's been a lot but she won't stop like you know giving a shit to talk about what can i do like you're going to write a whole vogue article i mean interview for vogue and be like um my baby like don't believe in gender like they're going to tell me when they're 18 and then legit be like it's a boy like wait did you not just so a i feel like i've heard i don't know from what inside source consider the source that like getting a vogue article written about you isn't like hey vogue's calling we want to write an article like it's a lot of time like your team

reaches out to vogue saying like we want to have this article written so i wonder like how construed it is and how which i hate the word woke now that chris harrison and ruined it with the woke beliefs. Like, how woke are you trying to seem? But then at least follow through. You know, don't just be like my baby's going to, you know, my child will tell me their gender at 18, which isn't even true. Like, you know much earlier than 18 a lot of the time.

I mean, listen, I'm not the like, explain to you guys right now the difference between sex and gender person. I would want to have someone to be on to explain that better than I could. But she definitely said gender and she definitely. said and maybe she meant it as a joke but she did make the article focused on that and then she even said and I quote about wanting to not enforce gender stereotypes and then she literally names the baby the most manly name Sylvester Apollo Bear which like is her husband's last name really bare because Kenneth deal so manliest name and then like we did see in the like

nursery situation a lot of blue which is fine but don't go out and and say you're going to fucking non-inforcedureotypes. Like, Noah's fucking nursery is gender neutral. So just like, shut the fuck up and stop. And then, of course, you post a photo with the baby except the baby's face is blurred and you see her perfect tit. This woman just gives me just a lot to talk about. And it's so funny because my guest Carol gets so into it with me.

And then she was like, oh, my God, I have her sweatpants. She sent me a picture of it and it legit has. Emerada's body on it. I don't know if that's like the logo of her brand in Amirata, but it's her body. It's her perfect perfect body. And no, I don't dislike her because she has a perfect body. Okay? You guys

know that I can get so obsessed with different women celebrities like Courtney, like HB. I think there's just something annoying and pretentious and self-important and self-righteous and just like be, just like B and we'd be really cool with your 7,000 abs and you know, looking like that a second

after birth. Yeah, so we had a lot of that going on this week. We also had a situation with Kylie and one of her makeup artists. I won't say her makeup artist because makeup by Ariel is her makeup artist. So at first when I saw Kylie's makeup artist was in, like in an accident, I was like, oh my God, makeup by Ariel. Not that the other makeup artist is important, but I know the makeup by Ariel and her are really, really good friends. He even got her body, if you guys ever saw a picture of him he had her body but no it's a makeup artist that she probably

has used before his name is Sam Routa and he was in an accident and there was a whole drama about the fact that Kylie put up his GoFundMe page for his medical expenses in her Instagram encouraging her fans to donate their money to him

so that went that didn't go over well because a lot of people were like Kylie you're a billionaire like you should pay for it all and apparently she donated $5,000. Usually I'm the first to be like, you know, going at Kylie. But you guys, just because she has a lot of money and is a valued billionaire, doesn't mean she needs to pay for every single, you know, person she's encountered in our life. I think where it becomes Icky is like asking her fans from all over the world that come from a much less privileged background

than she does and are not billionaires to donate. But again, how would you go about it? Maybe she felt that that was the right thing to do to post the GoFundMe page but at the same time you're gonna get you're gonna get shit but she did specify that it's not her makeup artist they don't have a personal relationship

but they have a work together like I said and even I knew it because I was like I know who she works with so like I haven't even seen this person tagged on her Instagram ever so she literally I think was doing a nice thing because she's met him a few times has used them a few times and then probably maybe the family asked you have a gazillion

literally followers if you could pose that that would be great. So she did want to clear it up though. So she did put out a statement. She said she wants to clear up the false narrative that she asked fans for money for paying for her makeup artist medical bills. Because you guys, if it was makeup by her yell like she'd fucking pay a gazillion dollars for makeup by her real. So anyway, she tried to be nice, I think and it came out kind of crooked, which I don't know how it would kind of come out better than that. She felt the need to share and, you know, after she donated.

Anyway, so Kylie put out a statement on Instagram. She said, it's important for me to clear up this false narrative that I've asked my fans for money and I'm not paying for my makeup artist medical bills. Sam isn't my makeup artist and unfortunately we don't have a personal relationship anymore, but I've worked with him a few years ago and he's the sweetest.

I saw my current makeup artist and friend Ariya, which I told you, about post about Sam's accident and his family's GoFund me and I called Ariel immediately to see what happened to Sam after learning in more detail. It compelled me to go visit his go fund me, which was set at 10K. They had already raised 6K, so I put in 5K to reach their original goal and thought I'd post my stories to gain more awareness if anyone also felt compelled to share or donate. I don't know how all this got so twisted, but its family has reached out through Ariel and are very appreciative of all the donations, prayers, and sent love towards him. So I'm not anti-Kiley in this.

I got to say I completely understand her. And just because she's, you know, has a lot, a lot, a lot, la, la, la, a lot of money doesn't mean she has to pay his entire medical bills, which then they, I think, increased the goal to 60,000, which is why it seemed like, oh, she only donated 5,000. Anyway, that's my little Kardashian corner for today. So enjoy the interview with Carol and tell me later how much you fucking love her, because I do. Okay, you guys, sorry to interrupt, but I freaking love huzzah. A, it puts me in a good mood to just, like, say the name of it. It's a very happy name to call a seltzer. And I freaking love it.

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And the code is not skinny for 20% off. So check out, huzzah. It's really, really good. Okay, everyone listen. Carol Radzwell is on my show today. She's from Real Housewives of New York, but she's also from a gazillion other things that she does, which we'll get into.

She looks amazing. She's wearing tinted eyeglasses, aviators? Aviator reading glasses. She's so cool. I see the staircase, behind her from the show that I remember. I'm having nostalgia. She has a cat and a shoe on her shirt. Howard Stern painted it. Stop. Does it cost a lot of money? No, I'm friends with his wife and she, but you can buy him for charity. Look at this. I mean, he's in a incredible painter. I can't believe

he painted that. No, I really can't believe that. No, he's amazing. Oh, my God. Oh, he's, he's just, He's just an extraordinary human being. Well, Carol Radwazil is what, what is happening with you? How did you say that last name? Oh, I said it weird for a second. Radz-a-will. It's so much easier to say rad. How did I say it?

I don't know. You said Rad-Ju-do. I don't know. So many people mispronounce it. I really don't give shit. Wait. Radz-Zil. Radz-I-Wel.

Radz-I-Wel. It's Polish? Yes. It's Polish. And you're a person. Princess, technically. Well, just by marriage. I'm Italian by, you know, and some other things, by nature.

But by marriage, my husband's family was Polish aristocracy when it mattered 400 years ago. Now, no one cares. Did you, did anyone call you princess? No. Oh, well, no, not here. I mean, I would have just, you know, would have been silly. Well, not if you're Luann, not if you're Luanne. No, I know.

I think that's part of why they asked me to be on. the show because, you know, Andy found out that I was technically a princess and he just nearly fainted and said, oh, my God, we have a countess and now we need a princess. And I'm like, whoa, I'm not going around on TV talking about saying I'm a princess. But in Europe, when we traveled in Europe, it was always like at hotels and stuff, they would use that, the title. It was very funny. I have some like invitations that were sent to us that I framed, And, you know, it says prince, princess, Radzieville. Is that what attracted you to your late husband, that he was a prince?

No. No, if you met him, you would, that would not be the first or second or 10th thing that you would think of. He was, no, he was, he was a credible person and, well, you know, to integrity that you don't see very often today, character, just really good values. And, yeah, he didn't ever call himself a prince or, you know, you know, he leaves the joke about it. So are you into the royal drama because you were a princess?

No, you guys, I want to tell you for a second about Carol because people might not know this about her, but she, she loves current events. She loves pop culture. She loves celebrity gossip. You love it. Well, let me just say, I don't, I mean, I do, but I don't really know anything.

And I only started, honestly, I only like, watch, I don't know how, I first got connected to your feed on Instagram, I think it was HB2 scandal. I love it. When you say HB2, like, I just love it. Carol is saying HB2. Can we deal with this? Let's give it a moment. Carol is saying HB2. Yes, we can move on. And I was on another, I think a commenter said, has everyone been listening to the stories on not skinny but not fat? And I was like, what's not skinny but not fat?

So I looked and then I started listening to your stories and I just found you so hilarious in the way that and very honest and straightforward and no bullshit. I just liked the way you delivered these pop culture stories, including the HB2, which then of course it went down a rabbit hole. And I don't really know a lot of what you talk about. Like I don't know the characters, but you don't even have to really know.

You just know that it's like it's like. You guys, Carol kills me. Like, she kills me. She, first of all, you get on it real quick. You get on it. You get in it real quick. Like, look, you're calling H-HB2. Like, you're in it to win it.

You don't fuck around. I just want to say it's a huge compliment to me. By the way, I was upset when Alex blocked you too. I need to take a moment. It is really sad because people think a lot of people like take them as wins. Like, they get blocked or like, yeah, like I hate that motherfucker. I like like his work and I the fact that he's now age to be to his husband like he was Alec Baldwin wait you met him we need to talk about that I met him yeah yeah right you like

interviewed him for yeah for two years I think after I sometime after I wrote my first book I was a columnist for a glamour magazine and every month it was called lunch date and I just made up the column because I thought how fun it would be to take a celebrity like this you know handsome charming celebrity out to lunch and do this interview and have it be for work. So it was really a good gig for two years. Then it got like, then it got like redundant. Like every celebrity you took out to lunch, but you know, it's hard to that they don't, they only want to talk about their project, right?

So it's like you plug their project, you flirt a little because that was, that's the concede of the lunch date and that, and that was it. So it was two years. It was really a fun gig. And Alec Baldwin was one of the, one of the first ones. early on and we went to lore restaurant on prince and mercer and he was hilarious he was so funny we we must have stayed he was like a two or three hour lunch i mean it was one and the column was one page was only like 800 words so it was like and it's kind of like comedians

getting coffee like except lunch yeah yeah that's exactly what it was like it was just me bullshitting them both like just chatting talking like we're talking and then I would edit it down to to like 800 to a thousand words but this was right after he got divorced he was divorced and he he was very much into father's rights and he said even then this was I don't remember what year it was like 2008 maybe 2007 or eight he said he wanted to get married and have a lot of kids he's always dreamed to have a lot of kids so I was like oh good luck with that did he say he wanted a Spanish wife he did say at that he wasn't into to, no, he didn't specify that she had to be spanglish.

Did he, was he into you? Were you single at the time? I was, yeah, I was single at the time dating. You know, they're, they're all into you, you know, it's like flirtatious, yeah. It's a dance you do. It's very flirtatious, very fun. I think, you know, he did one, he did, like, was he was staying at the Mercer Hotel or something, or he wanted to go after the lunch to over to the Mercer Hotel.

to have a drink, but then I was like, I got to go. Carol. But he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was an entertainer. And he knew his job was to entertain. And, and he did it brilliantly. You know, he did it brilliantly. It sucks that he's overshadowed. That's a thing like, that's why I was so upset when I was blocked by him.

Because I was, I could separate. Even when I was covering it, it's like, Alec Baldwin is still Alec Baldwin. And like he comes before HB2. I don't even know hilarious before all of this. So obviously it made me sad. Like most people didn't unless you're like a mommy like yogi or something, which did you see her last video that I posted. Video. Oh.

When Alec is guessing the names. Like what are they are they trying to kill me? I think I mean that was like full on like like like. Barcelona like that that's there's a meme that's like to like an exchange program in Barcelona and that's them like their kid Lucia he's like she put up a whole video of Alec playing with the dog being like Lucia Lucia and I was like he keeps saying it he keeps saying it and it was kind of it wasn't it's not giving me right I want to rest from this and they keep going but Carol you are Carrie Brachon.

People said that when I was on this show, just because I live downtown. And they're still saying it today. Oh, they do. Well, that's, that's real. I mean, it's very flattering. I'm not at all, actually, at all. We just have similar, I mean, she was a fictitious character, but she was actually based on a real purse and a real woman, Candace Bushnell,

who I know and knew, you know, well, years and years ago. So it was funny when they were starting to say that. I thought, where did that come from? But I get it. You know, I, on that show, I didn't look like the other women. I lived downtown. They were all uptown. They were all fancy, like, you know, Michael Coors from head to toe.

Michael Coors, Carol. I don't know. I always think it's like some merchandise. But Michael Coors is like not, like, I wouldn't even wear Michael Coors. Oh, they were wearing it. Okay. This is, they were in 2010, 11. And I think I just looked different and I was, and I was.

You know, I was still writing my second book, my novel, and, and I was single girl about town. Actually, I had a boyfriend the first season. Adam? But no, his name was Russ. He was a musician. He was on it a little bit and, you know. I think I told you this before. But, okay, sometimes I'm not like the feminist grow out, my armpit hair and my leg hair person.

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so they know you found out about this amazing razor through me. So if you decide to check it out, which you should, go to mybilly.com, spelled B-I-L-L-I-E-S-N-S-N-Skney. Okay, important slash not skinny. And check it out. Let me know what you think. You are really different than the other women when you were on Real Housewives, like you said,

but you're not going to say so I will. You're also smart and a lot of the, the times what you're going to tell me? I think, no, I think I was, I don't know, like, sure, maybe I, I, I think I was more thoughtful than the other women. You were very thoughtful, yeah. And more articulate in the way that I expressed myself. And there were a lot of other differences.

I mean, I did, I did that show because I was different than the rest of them and I wasn't going to, like, morph into them. But it's really hard to do for six years. I think now the difference between me and all the housewives is that. that homegrown terrorist Instagram feed follows me. And so does Lincoln Project. So it's like, homegrown terrorists is like they follow like real badasses and news and whatever.

And Carol Ratsuwell, I was like. No, you're, everyone's a house like. So we didn't. I don't think this was on the recording when we started. And you are a journalist. You were stationed. You were telling me in Israel and also where? Yeah, I was in Israel during the first Gulf War, which, which was in 19.

90, which many of your listeners probably were just weren't born yet. And then during the Afghan war, I was in Kandahar for like two months. I'm picturing you like in the war where you were like there in it. What were you doing? Well, during it, I was in Tel Aviv during the Gulf War and we were if you recall at the time, but you were two, so you don't, but your parents might. The Saddam Hussein was, was lobbing scud missiles at Israel and they were thought to have chemical warheads and it was a really, obviously, treacherous big deal and so that we were over there

and the scud missiles would come in. I was a PA. I was like 24 years old, 25. And I would go with the producer and really we would just drive in the direction of the smoke. You know, the journalists would, and we didn't even wear a hazmat gear.

We were just like hard charging and we would, you know, film all the incidents of where the, thank God, I mean, it was, the scut, I mean, it caused a lot of physical damage, but I don't think many people, they didn't end up hitting popular places, like nothing went near Tel Aviv or anything. So, so that was lucky in that regard. And then, and then during the Afghan war, I came sort of at the tail end of it. So we were based on, I was based in the U.S. military base in Kandahar, but Kandahar was considered still a hot spot. So,

It was, you know, we were on lockdown, like real lockdown for a couple weeks. And it was, it was, that was pretty intense. That was, that was, that was. So how did you get to from that hardcore stuff to like the glamor column you were talking about and it became more like lifestyle stuff? I know. It does seem like I took a hard luck. No, but that's what makes you so interesting because you're like in the war and then you're like at lunch with Alec Baldwin. Yeah. Well, you know, a couple years in between. I'd left ABC after my husband passed away. You know, I'd been there of 14 years, 13 or 14 years. And I just felt like it was the end of that part of my life in a way. Anthony worked at ABC News with me, so we were very much together in the, you know,

pursuit of the story and, you know, business and professional life. And once he passed away, it was just odd for me to be there. And plus everyone was like, would look at me like, how are you, and, you know, want to hug me and you know, everyone who watched the show knows I'm not a hugger. So, you know, it was just, it was a really typical time for me. And so I left, and then I kind of, like, figured out what I was going to do next. And I started writing, so I just started writing down memories and that kind of morphed into my first book. So it took like two or three years or more.

It took like two years to write it. But I started writing it like three years after they all passed, you know, they all passed away that summer of 99. So there was a good five or six years in between where I was writing and then I decided to publish it and I sent it to an agent. I didn't even have an agent at the time. I sent it to an agent and she loved it and she said, I could sell this. So I said, okay, go ahead. It was a big decision because I had never been public about my life.

And it was really, you know, my childhood growing up in upstate New York, kind of humble beginnings, working class Italian family and how I sort of made my way to New York City and got this job at ABC News and traveled around the world and met my, you know, literal prince and, you know, the love story between Anthony and I and the friendship that developed between him and me and his cousin John Kennedy and Carolyn. So it was, and then, of course, at the end, it ends the summer of 99 when they all died. But we think, Carol, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Your husband passed away on 99 the same summer of the plane crash. Yes. That summer we were staying, we were living at John and Carolyn's house in the vineyard. Anthony was not doing well. He was, you know, it was kind of like the end. And then three weeks, and there plane crashed July 16th, I think it was. And he passed away three weeks later.

Wild. So it was like, it was pretty rough few years after that. And then I did stay at ABC for a little while, then I left. But by the time I published the book, I felt, like I had come to terms with I was happy that I'd gotten the story out and it was on you know so I would never it would never you know it became what you know the story of my that part of my life and then yeah I did that and then I started writing another one and I in between I did the column for glamour magazine I wrote for other magazines and and then Andy asked me if I would be on the show I think only because he found out that I was a princess by marriage So they came to you out of nowhere, like, or did you know Andy from like New York and stuff? I knew Andy through mutual friends. And I went to his dinner at Kelly Rippas and her husband Mark. And there was a bunch of people there, my good friend who is Andy's good friend. And I was just telling this story of this funny story about how the Radzie Will family got back finally after 50 years got back there, the castles that were taken from their family. during World War II by the Russians.

And it was this big thing because the government paid out the family a little bit of money and it wasn't life-changing at all. But it was kind of like, oh, I own a castle in Belarus. And I was just kind of telling a funny story. And then Andy was like, wait, wait, you're a princess? And they said, well, by marriage, technically. And then I thought he was kidding. He said, do you want, would you consider being on the show?

We have a countess. I said that's what and I didn't know about the show I just knew Andy had I knew Andy had a talk show and then there was housewives on the talk show but I never seen a housewife show so I just thought it was this really funny

late night talk show you know because Andy was always funny when I saw him like at dinners and stuff so I was like oh he has that funny talk show with those women and then he and then he sent me like two like one or two seasons of New York

and I watched it and I was like I don't think I could do this because I'm not like you know I'm not going to say things I mean I knew in the six years I

helped I mean I promised myself I would not you know get drunk on television or take my clothes off like I just felt like and I wasn't going to call any of the cast like you know

all the really sexist misogynistic names and that they all call each other like I'm like I can't not going to call anyone on a whore or drunk or an idiot or age shame or any of the things that they were doing sort of casually. It was like this casual misogyny that was going on. But I said, if you want me this to be who I am and how I speak and how I articulate and the

things I want to talk about, I'll do it. I mean, I didn't think about too much. Sorry to interrupt, but so I like to be different and wear unique clothing and pieces that no one else has, you know, because I'd just like to be. be different. So that's why I go on Curtsy to shop and it's so much fun finding the coolest pieces after sitting in the same

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and unique pieces for 15% off with code not skinny. So then you sign on the show, but like do you know any of these women like from like night life and New York, like nothing, nothing? No. So you connect to Bethany, which like I have to say, and I think I've said it before. No, no, she wasn't on for two years. I had already been on two years when she came back. I didn't know her at all either.

I never had met any of them. I connected with Heather the first season. Oh, with Heather. And you're still, do you still talk to her? I still, we're still really good friends. And you're still really good friends. But, okay. But then Bethany.

So you're a friendship with Bethany? I shipped it. Do you know what ship? Like I say ship sometimes. No. Okay. So ship is like a real for a relationship. And it kind of means that you are.

You're for that relationship. So if I ship it. So I loved Carol and Bethany because I felt like you guys, you girls balanced each other out. And I just loved how you went everywhere together. And from all the friendships on the show, it seemed like the realest one that you. actually hung out, that she actually came over to your house, that she, like, knew you,

that she, the way she, you girls would talk, like, she would, like, call you out for being laid and you would call her out. There was a good, like, back and forth there. So I was really sad the last season that you were on. Was that the last season where you were on where your relationship kind of imploded? And if I remember correctly, because this was a little while ago she was like crying her eyes out like carol love me again and you were you were black no you were it's like you turned a corner and like you it's like you move on from an ex and you you just I mean I think you're right about some things that that relationship for me at least felt like it was organic I wasn't really really into Bethany in the beginning just because she was

Bethany in the beginning when we first, I kind of didn't want to get too close with her when that first season. And Heather was still there and we were, we were tight. So, but over the course of that first season and then when we stopped recording, you know, we did, we did have, I thought, a genuine friendship, you know, in retrospect, a lot of her relationships are transactional. So it was very transactional now I could see it. But at the time, I was like, we did see each other. And it seemed more real than the other friendships, because none of the other women are really friends, They're colleagues. They're colleagues.

And listen, it's a business. You sign contracts. You get paid. It's not, it's like makes me laugh when you get so upset about the bachelor. Honey, it ain't real. It's not. But Carol, you are a producer. Like, you are behind the scenes.

I can't go through life just being like, this isn't real. Like, I want to believe in things, you know? No, I know. And that's why I don't even like talking about the house size. Because no one who was a fan of the show really wants to know the real deal about it. They just don't. They just don't. So it doesn't even.

If you're a little smart, you can obviously start thinking like, okay, like you said, you sign a contract, you come on. Like the getaways are like getaways that are planned. No one else can come on. Do you think? I mean, I played it real, though. My real relationships, the way I interacted with. Ramona, Sonia, barely knew.

Luanne drove me crazy. But on the show, I was the same way with them. And then, you know, same for Bethany. I was, I was, I was this, you know, however I felt about our friendship at the time was what I was projecting on the show. And, you know, she wasn't, if she was upset about the demise of our friendship, it was by her own creation. Wait, but Carol, but she was so upset. Like, she was so upset about the demise of your friendship. I remember she was like, she was like,

showing, she was, like, she texted you and you, like, didn't answer. It was, yeah, I know, she wasn't. I promise you. That's all theater. It's all added. It, she wasn't. I was a very good friend to her. You were, you were.

I remember. And I kept continuing to try to, even on camera, say, let's stop this. Like, I even said at one point, this isn't at the show. Like, what's going on here? They don't, they edit that part out, but like, understandably. But, no, there was no. I think she had decided that. whatever reason, I was not, you know, I was not her ally anymore and that she was going to,

she was going to create this story where, you know, I wanted to, you know, break off the friendship. It was never the case. I mean, I was completely supportive of her when she went to Puerto Rico. I donated $5,000 to her charity. I showed up at all her launches. I was just, I was really being a good friend, you know, but that's, but she, I think she decided and, you know, it was a good business decision that the storyline would, you know, the two best friends break up. Right? That's a good, that's like days of our lives, season five, whatever. You know, it's like it's like a storyline right out of it. But is that how they like, does everyone have to like be burdened with thinking like, oh, I should have a good storyline. If not,

I'll like, I won't be on the show. Yeah. Yeah. But you weren't concerned with that. Like that wasn't your vibe. I wasn't concerned with it because I wasn't trying to be the star of the show. So I didn't, I didn't have to get like fake married or I wasn't going to get drunk or get naked or scream and cry. You have to do those things. Yeah. To be the center of a show like that.

So I was always happy to be like a little bit sideline. You don't want to be demoted to friend of. You got to make shit happen. Yeah. I was never a friend. No, not you. I'm saying other other. other cast members are scared to be demoted sometimes or not get renewed for next season if you're not front and center. Right. But I was pretty front and center that last season and and and didn't and wasn't and my option wasn't whatever they, you know, they send the option letter and they, they were like, oh, it's not working out. So. Oh, that's what happened, Carol. It just didn't get renewed. A lot of things happened at the last season. Like it was just it was. The writing was on the wall. Like I was just arguing.

about everything. I was very, you know, just very upset about, about the way production was handling. And more so than the women, because I feel like the women are doing their job. But like, it was, it was what I called the Bravo machine in full gear. And they hated when I said that, you know, oh, my God. I'm not, I mean, I think I'm, like, forbidden to say those two words for the rest of my life. But there's, like, a difference between the production and Bravo, right? Because there's like a, it's the same.

It's the same? Oh, I thought it was different. Okay, but one of the thing. Each city has their own production company. Right. The production, production companies are basically the production arm of Bravo network. You know what I mean?

They have. So like Shed Media was the producer, has been for 13 years of Roney. And there's not really difference between Bravo. Sorry to interrupt, but I know a lot of people love SoulCycle, going to a class might be a lot.

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at home bike. My soul cyclebike.com slash not skinny promo code not skinny. See, Carol, you were so concerned. You guys, I asked Carol to come out on my show for the past, whatever long. You didn't ask me. I was stalking you on DM, and you're totally lying right now. I got into the HP2, and then there was the whole bachelor's thing, which I didn't understand. And then there was the A-Rod thing with this girl from Southern Charm. And I was hooked.

And then, oh, my God, Olivia and Harry and Amrata now. It's just like, it's crazy. You guys, Carol cracks me up, but it's not true because I did from the beginning. I was like, Carol, you should call my podcast. You should call my podcast. And Carol, another thing you might not know about her is I said this before we started. Like, she's a bit of a control freak and a bit of a perfectionist because she would be like, what are we going to talk about?

And is it going to be funny? And I was like, oh my God, no one's ever. People are like, okay, I'll come on. And when I go on a podcast, for example, I'm so chill. because it's not my problem. Do you get what I'm saying? Oh, well,

I wanted to be good for you. You're so cute. She was like, but I'm not coming if it's not funny. How are you going to make it funny? This is what we're going to talk about. And every time I'd be like, Carol,

I'd be like, like, so that's what I want to tell you. It's been 30 minutes. My show is 45 minutes. I didn't even get to the tip of the iceberg of what I want to talk to you about. And here you were worried and worried and worried.

And she would tell me, I'm worried that it will be, you know, I just edit out all the boring stuff. But you're not a boring person and she would keep being like, okay, well, and I don't know if you guys noticed, but she basically taught me what misogyny means too, because every single thing I'm in the patriarchy. So when I tell you that I lull from the things that you say, like you're so funny and she'll,

and you will tell me like, she'll be like, listen, I don't know any of these characters and she calls them characters even though they're like people on the reality shows. And she's like, I don't know them. But that girl, oh, my God, once you summarized, it was the A-Rod drama, and you were like, I don't know any of these people, but the one girl from that one show that's a blonde, hooked up with A-R-R-I-Ling. But what did you think just this week we had craziness of the A-Rod situation where, boom, breaking news, her and J-Lah, him and J-Loh are breaking up. Boom, no. So you being a journalist and on the other side of this, all these.

sources. Sources say they broke up. Sources say they're back together. Is it them calling and being like, is it their people most of the time? Probably their people. I was not in that sort of that that kind of journalism is like a completely different world. And you got to and there are people who are in it who are great and and do good job. But I would say that that was that was a a leak, you know, from one of their camps. And then they then they just watch. it back because, I don't know, it just, they decided like it's too soon or, you know, it just like too soon to announce it. I felt like it'll be announced, but it was wrong timing and it got leaked at the wrong time. So Carol, you're so up to date now on all. I mean, am I because

I feel like, well, I mean, the bachelor stuff. I have a bachelor's story. I told you. Oh, I want to know it. Tell me. Um, because I never, I never watched the show. Yeah. bachelor. I'm not judging it or judging people who watch it. It's probably super entertaining, but I just never, it was never my thing. And I met one of the bachelors. I was skiing in Canada, like 10 years ago maybe. It was a snowstorm and everyone was trying to get to the airport. And we were all calling cars and taxis from the hotel and they weren't arriving. So this one taxi pulled up and I ran to get into it because I thought that was my taxi that I called him. I sort of ran at the same time. So we were like, and I said, well, let's, let's just share it. We're going to the airport. So

and it was super cute. He was cute. Wait, who is it? Oh my God, this is like a, this is like a Nora Efron movie. We're like, I had a long maxy fur coat. I was like, and I put it over us like a blanket because it was so cold in the cab. So there we were. Like it was a two hour drive to the airport like cuddling and and talking to this really cute guy. who was a Navy doctor. And I don't know how it came up because I would not have known to ask about it. He maybe probably mentioned something about being on TV.

And I said, oh, what show? Because he kind of looked like he had actor good looks. I thought, oh, wow, what show is he on? And he said, Bachelor. He was a Bachelor and he picked a girl. Wait, who is it? Who is it? Andy Baldwin. I didn't watch that season.

That's like a very, Oh, he looks like he's still single. Yeah, and he started telling me about the show. And it was just like, and he had picked a girl and then they moved to San Francisco and they got engaged on the show like they do. And I got the meaning that he was really in love with her, although nobody on The Bachelor, only two couples from The Bachelor in 20 seasons ever really got married. So I was like, but he seemed like he really wanted to. But then she, I think she broke it off and he was kind of heartbroken about it. And then I think we made out at the airport.

It was like we were long loss of lovers and like separate. We had an airport scene. It was total. Oh my God. It was a never saw him again. Maybe I saw him one more. I don't think so. I don't, I don't think I ever saw him again.

It was too perfect. Oh my God. Is that like in the movie where you're like, let's not ruin it and let's not tell each other, each other's names or numbers. It was that kind of a thing? Well, it wasn't, I think this is probably 10 plus years ago. So it wasn't like, DM me on Instagram. It wasn't like that. It was like, here's my phone number that's attached to the wall, you know. Wait, you know. But Carol, do, do you, do. Do guys slide into your DMs now? I wish. They don't. Some, some do. Well, I mean, in my Instagram is all women. It's all women and gay men. So it's sadly, no one's sliding to, you know. But, but they could is what she's saying. They could because I look at it. Like, I'm always, I, I DM you back.

Like, I'm on it. Yeah, I'm on it. It can be on like one of those dating apps. Like Raya has your Instagram name. So you could, you don't have to like swipe right or left. Wait, are you on Raya? Yeah, I was on it for like two years or three years ago. Wait, is that?

I don't really on it though, but it's, I have the app and it's open and I could like look. But what I figured out is it's better to like see their Instagram name and then go to their Instagram and look at all the pictures and see. kind of get a sense of the person. And then you could just DM them and say, hey, slide you on Raya. Like, you don't have to wait for them to match with you on Raya.

You could just try to match on DM. Slide into the DM. And it's a, it's a hack. Okay? Girls out there, it's a dating hack. Wait,

let's go on Instagram. If I was single, would be my go-to dating app. I'd slide and slither on in all day. I'd fucking, I'd look like who, I'd literally have like a copy-paste template. and I just slide on in.

What is there to lose? You could DM Brad Pitt. Like, we could DM everyone. Yeah, you could DM. I don't, I don't, I've only done it a couple of times just to test out, test it out. But because I have a verified account, it's more likely, I think, if you have a verified account that they can see it because it's a blue chat or something. I just do the, like, emoji of the girl raising her hand.

I think that's super cute because it's like, it's not, it's not saying yes. It's not saying anything, but it's cute. But that's another dating hat girls. Wait, did that ever work the emoji with the handup? Yeah, it does work. Stop. What do they say back? Well, let me see.

Wait, are you going to tell us too or is it not anybody interesting? No, no, no, no. No, I don't. I mean, it's like people you wouldn't know. Wait, and what happened with Adam, Carol? Nothing. I mean, that kind of, that relationship was great. It just kind of like ran its course.

Oh, here somebody says, hey, sorry I missed your wave. I mean, it's cute. I'm telling you, girls, I tell you, the way. It's not a wave. It's like a hand-up. That is so cute. Except does that play into like patriarchy in some way? We're like, oh, I'm the little girl raising her hand.

Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I would, if someone said that to me, I would say, well, that's part of the, the patriarchal narrative about women asking for permission, which is exactly the thing. Yeah. But, okay. Yeah. No. Listen, I'm not saying I'm not, you know, listen, we all, we're all living in this system.

And that's exactly my point. It permeates every single aspect of our lives. I know. When you taught me it, all of a sudden I started seeing everything in that lens for a week. And then I had to dig my head in the sand and just not pay attention. I know. I know. I mean, didn't the Bachelor just announce that two women were going to take the job? See? Because it takes two women to do the job of one. You see? That's what. But there's like a reason because like.

No, there's not. The reason is the patriarchy. There's no reason. There's no reason. There's no reason. There's no reason that two women have to do the job. I can't think of examples now, but I've seen that old story, that old trope at other times, you know, where they, you know, they can't figure out so they're going to give it to two people. Yeah, why two women? And why I think in this situation, there's a two women and it's calling them supporting and not like hosting and there's a lot of stuff going on that that doesn't. You got it. You're, you're, you can teach a class now on the patriarchy.

You got it. But that's why I would, when you and Tinsley became really close, I'm like the Tinsley in our relationship, you know? Yeah. So when you, when you and I never became really close. Well, you, you were closer the, the last season. You introduced her to Scott. Of course.

Yeah. I thought that was just going to be like a one off fun scene where she got drunk, obviously. and you know Adam and I were there and Scott I knew you know I didn't know him that well either I'd met him with a friend but I thought they would really get along you know he likes this kind of messy women and she likes the kind of guy he is so and but I didn't realize it was going to be like three seasons worth of drama that was nuts but now that you're because like I need to yeah because you're close with Derinda oh my god let's give Carol a moment she was featured on Des Mois, right?

You and, uh, you... I just, yeah, I just started following them. You and Durinda were spotted somewhere. So you're close with Durinda still, too. Yeah. Oh, and look. Not well, bitch. Merge.

Derinda merch. Her coffee mug. I'm close with, you know, yeah, Derinda's a, you know, she's a good person. She is a good person. So how to... I don't know what happened on the show because I wasn't watching it, but they kind of just had decided that she was no longer useful to them and that she needed to take a break. Yeah, but she, because the last season, because you introduced Scott and Tinsley and that,

whatever, how it's going to. Do you have any idea being friends with her under why she was so interested in their relationship and like so obsessed with them breaking up, not breaking up her sharing, not sharing? No, I think what she was, what, what, what, when you come to a show like that, you have to really be honest about your life, right? And it's really, it's hard to be honest about your life all the time and, and all the flaws and all the dumb things you say and take ownership of that. And I think the feeling was that Tinsley was not being honest at all about her relationship with Scott and it was really bothering. It bothered Durenda because he or she

was laying it all on the line that, you know, her boyfriend at the time, John was, you know, he was, you know, ridiculed and sort of taken, you know, to task for the way he acted and things that he said. Like, everyone was pretty, you know, pretty straightforward. There are people on the show that just, you know, aren't really honest about what's going on in their life. So it feels like not fair.

It's just like, you're just like, why am I? I think she had, and I don't really want to speak for her. And I didn't see the episodes, but I know there was a feeling of like, wait a minute, you're pretending that you're not even dating him and then suddenly not only you met up with him finally after a year and the next week you get engaged and now you're pretending it's this like fairy tale romance and and Dorinda and I knew that that was not really the truth. So I think that really to the point where, you know, again, it's part of you know, getting caught up in the machine, you know, in the machine of creating a storyline and

obviously for whatever reason they wanted her storyline to be and here she goes living happily ever after she was to Chicago and that wasn't you know that that wasn't necessarily the the truth what was going on so did you leave Bravo do you feel like not on like the best terms I mean I'm a little I know I'm like really quite I was really quiet on the show and I'm like but I'm not really like that like in my real friend group I'm like pretty loud and I'm very opinionated And so I'm a little bit of a bridge burner. I mean, you can see from my politics. Like, I don't, like, when I think, when something's done, it's done.

Like, it's really hard, even in relationships, you know, what, you know, you always get into trouble when you're, when you're, when it's over, but you don't know it's over. You try to manipulate it so it's not over. I felt like once I left, once I left Bravo, I knew I was never going to go back. Like, I knew that that wasn't even a question. Like it was, it was, it was very, it's very hard. I'm very logical, fact-based kind of person. So you can imagine six years of being gaslit, of being said, no, no, no, that's not what happened.

This happened. No, you're friends with this person and not this. Like, it was just like, you know, that last, that last reunion really was just, I think at some point, I just like was like, I think I even said, like, I'm being gaslit. Like, it's too much. Do you know what gaslighting means? Like, all, like, I feel like it's. a new term that I'd had to learn.

Oh, no, no. I mean, oh, it's based on like a book or something. It's based on a, it's based on a movie, in the 40s called Gaslight. And it's a husband that systematically drove his wife crazy by, you know, she would turn off all the lights, and in the middle night, he would get up and turn them all on. She would wake up and all the lights would be on and he would say, what are you talking about? They were always on, you know? And in that way, she's slow descent into Madison.

this. Oh my God. That is such a perfect explanation for anyone who doesn't get it because now I feel like it's become the new thing to say on reality TV. Like you're gaslighting me. You're gaslighting me. Like Leah said it about Ramona the whole season, the whole last season. Did you watch the last season? No. I haven't, I've never watched the show. Sorry. Not sorry. I know. I've just heard bits and pieces. I've just seen what's on Instagram, like if people, like, post little clips and stuff and whatever you have on. Like, I don't, but, but, um, I don't know, Ramon, people who are good at gaslighting are narcissists. They are very, they're, it's, it's a real skill.

So that's another word that you love, Carol, right? What? Narcissists. I mean, I don't love it, but we live around a lot of narcissists. And once you understand what it is, you can, you can really see it in other people. And, and it's important to know, you know, it's not, not to say, you, You have to blow up a relationship or a friendship because of it. But it's good to know what you're dealing with because that type of personality is going

to be someone who's going to be very good at manipulating and obfuscating and gaslighting. And then it really does like make you feel crazy. Like, wait a minute, did I say that? Did I, you know, and then when you start questioning yourself and, and for me, it was difficult because I have a very large hippocampus. And you know what the hippocampus is it stores. So I have a very good memory. Like I can recall conversation, dialogue and stuff easily.

So are there a lot of narcissists on Real Houses of New York? Well, I think that's probably a prerequisite. Because I was trying to think of examples now, because I'll be honest, you guys. I a little while ago Googled the like the actual meaning of narcissists to see like what the points are that you have to hit. And if I just think about those points, like so many, I'm like, wait, is it Luann? Is it Ramona? Like, Ramona is that? Luan is Bethany? Yes. Yes. Carol, you know this is going to be a headline.

Carol calls Bethany. No, no. I don't want to be a headline. I just, I think, you know, listen, I've said it before. I said it the reunion. You don't need a, you don't need a degree in psychology. or you just need two eyes, right? You could just see it. Once you, listen, we all have, we all have, you know, it's like a scale.

We all have shades of narcissism, you know, and certainly like Noah is like at that age, they're all narcissism, right? Yeah. Right? Until like the age of three or four, they don't know anything happening. It's all like they think they're the center. They think they're the center. Yeah.

But what you grow out of it. And not to say narcissists are like just more. the center of attention. That's not. It's much more, it's much, much more behavioral than just wanting to be the center of attention. Carol, I feel like you're such a unique person and that it seems to me and tell me if I'm wrong, that being on reality TV and being around these types of people that I'm sure like for me, like I would probably go crazy. Like I feel like my blood pressure would boil. I'd get like heart problems. I think you'd be good at it. But I would be affected by it. Do you feel, I feel like you came out of it, like, like not affected almost?

Oh, no, no, no. No, I was. I mean, I had PTSD as anybody who leaves a show like that. It was really, you know, it's a toxic environment. It's not, it's one of those jobs you have, you know, that you know it's like not a hundred percent great for you. But for whatever reason, whether it's life choice or financial choice or whatever, you know, you choose to stay in it, longer than you should, knowing that it's not really good for you. Like, I, you know, you have to detox from a show like that for like a year.

That's what I think. Like that year you leave, you're just like, holy shit, what just happened? Because once you get off the merry-go-round and you can stop for a minute and reflect, everything seems clear. And it does, you know, you have to work through some of the shit, you know, when you're being gaslit and lied to and manipulated and, And it's hard, you know, and, you know, you're doing it for a job. So, you know, I'm not going to complain. You know, we get paid for it. So I'm not going to complain, but I'm not going to say

it just so you can breeze out of it. Like, nothing happens. So do you feel better now being off the show, doing your own thing? And what are you doing now, aside from the fact that we need to read your books? I feel, I'm going to say right here, the works that I've read by you are, were your Real Hazas of New York Recaps, which I loved and I They were so good. They were brilliant. I mean, I got to say that was my best work.

They were so good. They were so good. They were so good. And I published the first season or the first two seasons. I published my self-published them on Amazon. And then I got told that this is awful. That Bravo,

Bravo owns them that that that that they're not actually my copyright and I was like what the actual fuck so I had to pull it off of Amazon I don't know what yeah so but I can send you a copy it's all it's so funny it's bound and the cover of it is the all of us dressed as pirates and St. Bart's that you know you guys it was I I found your recaps to be so entertaining and so great but I definitely want to read your book there are two books that are out now you said My first book was the memoir, What Remains, and that was published in 06. And then the book that I was working on the show that I'd finish a second season, remember I was accused of gas, not gaslit.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Ghost writing narrative. That was called The Widows Guide to Sex and Dating. And I'm actually trying to, I'm adapting, I want to, I'm adapting what remains, even though it's nonfiction memoir into a fictional TV. series. Like, kind of like Succession is about the Murdoch family, but you don't know, everyone kind of knows, but they don't, like, sort of like, succession meets the crown.

Oh, my God. Carol. Yeah, well, we'll see. Hollywood is a treacherous business. And so we'll see, but, but I think it's, it's a really, it's a really unique and dynamic family drama, but it has to be fictionalized because it's, you know, to write about my late husband's families, you know, it's, honestly, it's just not as interesting as if you can fictionalize it and create bigger narratives about the family. And based on true events.

The character. Yeah, inspired by true events or something. So if Carol's not on Instagram reading about the latest pop culture, she is writing or she's writing around in her 1998 Jeep. My chief. That she's obsessed with. You know, I mean, I've stopped posting it because a couple people like it's parked right in front of my building and it's yeah like I've been sitting in my living room when I hear my name from that like Carol and I'm like who's like a friend and I go so and twice now I've gone to the window and like and I realize it's fans that they know they recognize the the car but I I literally my dream is to she always is blasting the radio in her 1998 and like good for you because I feel like that's so in New York with the snow, you're like...

It's so, I mean, I would say, you know, now a lot of New Yorkers have, you know, discovered cars. And they, you know, we think, of course, because we're New Yorkers, we're like, look what we've discovered these vehicles that you can get into and you can drive around by yourself. You don't even need to be driven. Well, in the pandemic, it's really awesome because the streets are empty. So you can feel like you're, you can drive. Yeah. But I'm now, I'm fighting with the DOT over parking on our street because there's some signs that shouldn't be there.

So it's like, you know, they say all politics are local. Like I am in it fighting the Department of Finance and the DOT. And also, by the way, city bike, which Justin sold 56 bikes on the end, at the end of my street. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Are you fighting that too? I'm fighting that because that's like 10 parking spots. Oh my God. And it's a small street. And it's a small street and we, you know, listen, if people are wanting to ride around

on a bike around the city, then they should want to walk like two blocks west so they can get their bike like on, you know, the, you know, west side highway around there. It's plenty of space there. Carol is one busy girl. Everyone go follow Carol on Instagram at Carol Radzwell. I feel like I'm insecure saying your name now. No, no, no. It's perfect. Radzwell, Roswell, Princess Carol Radzwell, thank you so much for coming on. See, an hour went by, didn't get to half of the stuff I want to talk to you about.

You made me so nervous for, yeah, this whole time. She was making me nervous. She's like, I don't even know. What are you going to ask me? So here. No, I love you, Carol. Thank you so much for coming on. Everyone go follow Carol.

We could be friends in real life. Yeah. Pick me up in your Jeep. Okay. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny. but not fat. Follow me on Instagram at not skinny but not fat.

Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big

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