Not Skinny But Not Fat - CALLED OUT w/ Justin Anderson

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

I will forever save on my phone Justin Anderson’s story “calling me out” for “calling him out” about the Madison Lecroy IG live Insta drams lol. Except we were NOT calling each other out, or we were, but with love and mutual Adoration! So naturally, Justin came on to discuss the wild saga (including Kristin Cavallari, Craig Conover, Austen Kroll, Jay Cutler &  Madison Lecroy). Justin takes us step by step through what really went down! We also talk about hair, lips, his move to Nashville, how he’s the best  BFF a girl could have and more! Billie: To express a little love for our show go to MyBillie.com/NOTSKINNY - It’s a small way you can support us while getting the BEST razor you will ever own. SPANX: For a limited time, visit spanx.com and use promo code NSBNF for 10% off your Spanx Nursing Bra today! Imperfect Foods: Try Imperfect Foods now and for a limited time get 20% off PLUS free shipping on your first order. Go to imperfectfoods.com and use NOTSKINNY to sign up. Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. This is Amanda Hirsch from the Not Skinny but Not Fat podcast. You might know me from Not Skinny Bonifut on Instagram where I spend my time talking about reality TV, celebrities, everything happening and pop culture every Tuesday. Okay. I also talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality TV stars. We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday and just feel like you're talking about your best friends in your living room.

Okay, you guys, I am so excited for today's guest because Instagram brought us together in the wildest of ways, but you probably already know him, Justin Anderson, the man, the hair, the Instagram lives. What else? Oh, just all of it. Just it's all a joke. I'm so excited to be here. This is so fun. Already. I'm so excited. I, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to start off the confession. So I have Justin's, okay, if you're listening right now and you're excited about this podcast, it's probably also because you follow Justin and you follow me and you know, we both have the same kind of like talking to the camera like we think we're on like, I don't know, our own reality show or something. And we feel like everyone needs to hear our every moment,

which they do. People, I mean, people who like us, they enjoy it. And you know, like, I, get such a kick out of you and I became I always have known who you work because we have people in common and you're with your media which I had a podcast with dear media so I've always heard about you but I have to be honest like I didn't follow your Instagram before and when all the Madison drama with Southern Charm and all that kind of stuff was happening a bunch of my girlfriends were sending me your stuff being like oh my god she's talking about you right now and so I started watching it and I wasn't upset I remember I reached out to you in like a funny but playful way and we immediately became friends But ever since then, I've obviously followed you, and you really are the person.

I'm not just saying this. You're the person, like, I just watch your story from start to finish. And it's like, you have more dots than I have at the top of your thing, which is a joke that, an ongoing joke with my partner, Scooter. We always, like, laugh like the other day. He's like, how many dots do you have today? I'm like, I actually did all right. But you beat me all the time.

But I watch yours from start to finish. And that says something. Like, you tell a story. Like, it's interesting. Like, I literally am like, I wonder what Amanda is thinking about this. I go there, sure enough, you're talking about it. about it. That's heaven. That's such a compliment from you. And I want to confess to you before we dive into the Madison stuff. So obviously, I also knew who you were. And I think

even followed you, but I didn't pay attention until people were like, I think he's talking about you. And I, and you were responding, obviously, because like you said, you're an open book. So you're not one of those people that you're going to be in the middle of some drama and you're going to pretend like, I don't know that this is going on. Like you were like responding to it, which I under is probably annoying to be in that position when you are such an open book and you talk about things. So you're not going to like not talk about what's going on. So you did and you respond.

And then you had a video where you were talking to me and I was talking straight to you. Straight like in my eyes like laser beams through my body. And I saved the video. I screen recorded it to save it forever. Like I have your. video i have alec baldwin saying consider the source there are a few videos like in my favorites that will forever be and yours is like i can i hear your voice in my head being like and some of you are you know talking to the camera talking to you not skin even off that and you're saying but i was nice

about it right know you were so nice that's the thing you were so cute and i feel like other people were going to be like no matter you're a bitch i feel like like you said it in a way that didn't make me feel like you were just like and you're saying that I should own up but own up to what like what did I do and immediately people were like he's calling you out and I was like I don't feel like he's calling me out no I wasn't calling you out at all and I really first of all it's so funny like I love that you screen recorded it and it like it caught your attention but the reason that I talked to you is because I could tell when I was watching your stuff I was like wait a second like this girl and I would be best friends like we'd love each other we'd get a kick out of like

sharing this stuff whatever and I didn't think you were being mean at all you know So I just kind of did it and I knew that it would do a thing. It was the easiest way for me to kind of address the situation. Because when people were saying things like Justin needs to own his side of it or whatever, I was like, own what? I feel like I own everything. Ask me what you want. You know, I'll tell you anything.

And so with you, I kind of wanted to have that conversation. I was like, girl, ask me, I don't know what you want me to own. I was saying so it was perfect that it happened, but it happened for a reason. But I will say with all of that stuff, like as vocal as I am on Instagram and being like in the world that I've been in forever working with all these celebrities and stuff and then doing Kristen's reality and stuff like that time was a that was so fucked up for me I went into the weirdest thing because it was like it was drama on a level that I've never experienced before and I was so passionate about it because Kristen Cavalry is my best friend

of over you know close to 20 years we've been best friends and like it only became like really public us being best friends when I did a reality show and I get it I'm not acting like a victim. Like, why aren't people talking about me? I get it. But that was the first time I got caught up in drama where everyone was coming to me being like, Justin, what are you saying? Like, why are you talking about blah, blah, and whatever? And I'm like, you guys, these are my real friends. This is really happening in my life. And I talk like this all the time. And so when that drama was happening and all the different accounts were kind of talking about it and people that didn't know me were coming to my page. And for the first time being really nasty to me, I was like, holy shit. Like,

this is weird. Yeah. So then address it. And then people start saying, oh, this guy Justin wants clout. He wants to be talking about. You think that I want to be talking about other people's drama for fun. I'm protecting my best friend. Like any of you guys would protect your best friend if a bunch of people were talking lies about it. So it's just this funny situation.

Now looking back on it, I learned lessons, I got to meet you. And so it was fine. But that was the first time where I was really like, whoa, I hate this world. It freaks me out. Well, A, you win like best friend award, like your son. a good friend to Kristen. She's really lucky to have you. You're like Malika, but better. Like, I'm always like, I want a Malika. Like, you know, the friend that's always there for you and is so supportive and you're such an amazing friend that you took so much heat. And I can totally

understand what you're saying because, okay, you know this world better than I do. There are people that do look for clout, even if that means cloud on because, like through other people like these reality stars you know YouTube stars like Instagram stars like they'll like literally want cloud out of like a breakup out of COVID like they'll use anything and I'm very aware of that and like I think that a lot of times people too like when they first like let's say somebody found me on Chris and Caballaire's reality show and it's the first time they ever knew me or maybe they just land on my Instagram page and they see me and they're like who's this douchebag who's always like trying to hang out with Kristen Cavalier where they don't realize.

that, like, I've been in this, the industry of, like, celebrities. I've done celebrity hair color for all these years. You know, my clients, you know, look at my clients who they are. I've been around the firm, it's not new to me. But this was one of those cases where I was just, like, kind of brought into, like, there were lies happening. And I felt like I was getting played. I'm just going to say, I don't care.

Like, I was getting played by Madison's lies. Madison wanted to get eyes on her and get like these words talking about her. I was like, no, girlfriend. You're not going to do that. But you helped her, Justin. absolutely and she ended up she ended up waiting that because at the end of the day Madison wanted people to talk about her she wanted to get Instagram followers and it happened but that but that doesn't mean anything in the long run what so what you you gained a bunch of

people who are looking at you to follow you know who are looking for your next failure and that's what scared me about the situation when you when you and a bunch of other accounts were posting all these people were coming to my page who had never been there before but I didn't want it I was like I don't want this kind of gossipy vibe there you know I had already had like followers on Instagram or people knew who I was from before from doing hair and being in the game that I was. But I didn't want that kind of energy. And it was all coming my way. That's when I was like, no, like stop. I don't know. It was just an interesting thing. But at the end of the day, Madison freaks me out. I believe you 100% because I, people think that all that whole world is

so glam and amazing. But like, and that every single person wants just more followers and more numbers and more eyes on them, but it's not true because, like, let's say my little family on Instagram, I love that, like, most of them are really nice. And not, like you said, following me to see if I crash and burn. And I remember the other day, like my sister was just like, would you go on a reality show? And if a few years ago, I'd be like, hell fucking yes, you know, just to be exposed and stuff. Now I would be scared because I would be like, wait, that opens you up to a whole new thing where people really hate on people on TV and shit like that.

So not every single person, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's easy to think, oh, this person wants attention. And sometimes it's true. Madison did want attention. Madison dropped bombs to get. And people see that from the outside and I understand why people do that. And I am being 100% honest with you the way that you're saying right now. Like, if I'm going to do the Instagram thing, which I love, I love doing Instagram, I have fun with it.

I want a community who like follow. me and they understand me. I understand them. I talk in the DMs to everyone. I go on live all the time and talk to people and whatever. And I like that. I like a community. I don't want a bunch of look you lose. And I think some people like they want to do like manicure like perfectly filtered gorgeous shots all day and they get people being like yes, queen, you look amazing. And they're waiting for that person to fail. That in no way is appealing to me. You know, it's like I'm also a grown man. Like I'm a grown man who has fun with Instagram and I want to do it. But like I don't want random people following me that don't really like you. You want like your followers like you. And I have to say from all

the DMs I got that day, people do really like you. And everyone's like, no, I don't want two of my like, like people that I like. And I was like, no, we're cool. I swear I didn't take it that way. But, Justin, but. And if I remember and I'll go back to the headspace we were that day, which was so wild. It's hard to go backwards. But let's get into it and ask me anything. It's a fun conversation. It was such a shit show. And also like, I was also struggling because I was like, She wants attention and I'm going to give it to her. You know, I'm got. Oh, did I tell you she DM'd me?

She DM'd me. I posed something and she was like, wait, I'm messy. And I got scared for a minute because I'm like a chihuahua. Like I'll bark, but I'm actually, I get scared if people call me out. But yeah, she is messy. She's 100% messy. And the thing that's so weird about her and it's like, you know, there's a part of me too that's kind of like, I was almost like, I don't want to talk about

her anymore, but I'm like, I also don't care because I also think this is a lesson that people need to learn. Like you kind of nailed it. Like people, those days are gone where you're a shitty person for attention. You know, like hold yourself accountable. Say what you're really looking for. Like Madison, then shout from the top of the rooftops. Like, I want to be known as somebody who starts drama.

I want followers to follow me. I don't know. I just feel like her thing is so 10 years ago. Like did that work for Brandy Glanfield when you're just like a shitty person? You say whatever comes to your mind. You don't have people who really like you. They're not rooting for you. And so yeah, I think that Madison is messy.

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Like I want to dance on the bucket table. I want, first of all, the first Instagram live was so funny. There were so many good moments in it. I mean, love scoot, but him falling was so funny.

The dog. I mean, the whole thing was entertaining as fuck. Like, I didn't even like put that aside. But then there was the, the never ever getting back together. the song that's the Taylor Swift song and the I remember you because you have a very memorable face

Justin I remember you in the camera being like singing that part right and I was singing it directly on the camera and I said Madison's name and here's the thing that nobody realizes and not even Madison won't even say it Madison and I were friends at that time we were laughing on Instagram she was telling me she like I'm not even into Austin I love that you and Austin are friends. She didn't care. She spun that whole thing. And that was the problem. That's where all this came from. So the night that that thing happened, we were in the house. What happens? Anytime people come into my house, it always ends up dancing on the coffee. I mean, Miley Cyrus was in it like at another time. You know, like we always dance. I love to go live.

It doesn't matter if it's a celebrity or whoever it is. We just were having fun, whatever. But what we do in our house, I'm a massive Taylor Swift fan in the living room where that was happening. we go on YouTube on the big TV and we just put in our favorite artists and it's all their songs kind of on whatever. So we were dancing to Taylor Swift because if you really remember, at first it was Craig singing the songs

that mean song and he was just singing that. Then we were never getting back together, came on and we're all singing it. But there was no beef with me and Madison at time and that's when Austin was singing in the camera. But him and Madison were still kind of talking at the time. I didn't know what their thing was. So we were never sitting around being like,

you, Madison, whatever, like let's sing to her. So when he seen at the camera, I looked at it. And Madison and I had been like texting or DMing at that time. We were friends, whatever. So I'm like, he's never getting back together with you like, whatever. Even I think like the next day she was like, LOL so funny or like whatever. But then, so then where it got weird, Madison, she started realizing that she was getting people talking about her with the J rumors and whatever that kind of stuff.

And she was feeding into it. So when it changed for me was when Madison did her lame ass attempt at copying our video, She went live and started singing her own version. And when she said, I don't know if Kristen Cavalieri's kids were there that night or if they had a babysitter or whatever. When she knew the actual truth, she knew it because she was. No, she said something worse. Let me, let me help you. She said something worse.

She said she was mocking your guys is live, like imitating it, whatever, which I thought that was not in good taste anyway. Because if it, if it's going to be funny, then like, at least have it be funny. Yeah. You know what I mean? But it wasn't funny. was just like okay for me at least he's a mean he's a mean girl and then she said i think she looked at the camera and she said where well a she like screamed off to jay as if jay is in her house which we know that which we know that he's not and then she said oh like

and my kid's not home unlike somebody else to you know said that the kids aren't home but where the kids home like i think she really really but i was saying like I was upset at angered you so much because let's say we know it was at your house okay was it Justin's house so the kids weren't home I mean whatever but okay let's say it wasn't at your house it was a Kristen's house the kids were home sleeping and they have soundproof rooms is that like bad well I don't know maybe I'm a bad the other thing that drove me crazy is like everyone also needs to realize that they were Craig and Austin were in town that weekend they were staying at my house right they did their first oh I didn't know that so they

stayed at my house, they did their first round of their podcast with Kristen, because remember Craig just told you he did two rounds. So they did their first round up in my office at like three o'clock p.m. We went to dinner at 5.30 because Kristen and I are both like old people. We go to bed really early and we both wake up really, really early. So we went to dinner at 530. We were back in my house. That was at like 715, 7.30 p.m. Kristen was in bed by 9 p.m. that night. We went to the gym the next morning like but it looks like the outside world it was wild night we were partying all night whatever like it was crazy we were drinking because we were drinking at 5 p.m. at dinner you know or before dinner when they're doing the podcast whatever and we were dancing so for her she wanted to paint

this picture of like wild night where her kids there like where it was whatever and then when she was on the live and she said I this I just have to go to all these places because this drive drove me crazy but when she was saying like oh people were like are you dating jay is he there are you with jane she's like jay do you want to come out on the live and she was doing that thing I'm like, girl, you need to calm down because also like I know as Kristen's friend that Jay is with their kids right now. So if you're trying to act like he's not watching their kids right now, that's another issue, you know. So that's when I chimed in. I was like, Madison, you're lying.

You know the truth. And that's when she lost her mind and she went for the receipt since because that's all she needed was for somebody to be like, Madison, you're lying. And she tried to spin it, be like, oh, I'm being called a liar. No one said you were lying about talking to Jay. I could give two shits if you talk to Jay. You're two adults. But the reason why you guys were doing it was to get back at Austin and Kristen, shady.

You know, so you guys were doing it. The only reason I called something out is because you're lying about my best friend. And what people need to remember are listening right now. Oh, my God. I'm actually like I'm just talking to you. Like, this is going to go to a bunch of people. I'm an idiot. But here's the thing.

People listening, if you hear us, imagine you're on Facebook and you have 30 followers. You know, and you follow 30 people and your best friend is Becky. And let's say Karen down the street is saying that Becky's a whore and you saw her cheating on her husband, and you knew that wasn't true. You'd call that girl out on Facebook. He's like, hey, that's not true. because you're telling these other four people that this thing you thought that's exactly what i was doing for my best friend you know it was like i was like madison that's a lie that's not true like

whatever so then madison went for the crazy thing posting the receipts or whatever oh you're gonna call me a lie or whatever so that was the first time i've ever talked to madison on the phone because we've always had a dm relationship or instagram relationship so i um dm'd her i text and i said can i call you right now right after she posted that and she said sure call me i called her one thing that I can say about myself is I love to listen to people. I love to communicate. I love to get to the bottom of things. So I said to Madison, what's up with that? Like, what are you doing? Why are you going there? These are people's lives. Like, why are you? And she's like, well, I'm not going to be called a liar. I'm like, Madison, you're being called a liar because you lied about the kids and you lied about

Jay being at your house. That's all people are calling you a lie for it. So bottom line, when I was talking about, I'm like, oh, this girl, this is her whole plan. This is what she wants. She won. You know, she got she got it out there we're talking about so we go through the whole thing i say to madison i'm like oh my god it's such a long ass story i mean do you care about those kind of details first of all i do but i also again just think you're an amazing friend for being so like hurt for christian and trying because again you said because i remember your story so you're what'd you say i have no skin in the game is that your line yeah i have no skin in the game other than protecting my best friend, you know, and I know.

But did she feel on, did Kristen feel like, was like, did Kristen feel kind of like attack? Like, did she care? No. And here's the thing about Kristen is Kristen has done this for so long, right? Like Kristen is as strong as she seems. And Kristen is one of those people that is like, Justin, who cares? These people are doing it. Like she knows. Kristen's game is done. She has a thriving business. She has beautiful kids. You know, she could, she'll have opportunities to do all kinds of different things and stuff. So she's like, Justin, just like push out the noise.

But she's protective of her kids and she's protective of that kind of stuff. And I know that about her. And she would never ask me like, oh, can you take care of this? But like, I can sense it when she's like, when I feel like she's upset. But here's why I really suck up as a protective friend is because I made the friendship happen with Craig and Austin. I was the moment we went to Charleston. I said, Kristen, let's go to dinner with Craig because I used to wear Craig's merch and we

became friends on social media. So I was like, oh, Kristen and I are going to be down in Charleston for one night. Do you guys want to grab dinner? Or do you want to grab dinner? And he was like, yeah, absolutely, let's go to dinner. So that's how the dinner happened. We took the very first photo. And you know who was invited to that dinner? Madison, because I had never met Madison yet. Madison and I were friends on Instagram. So I said Madison, Chris and I are going to be down there. And that was the day that Madison was getting her boob job. And you can check those facts on Instagram. The day Madison got her boob job was the day that we took that first photo in Charleston because Madison was invited

to that dinner. So we just happened to have dinner with Craig and Austin. Kristen said to me, she was like, Justin, this is going to turn into some kind of drama or whatever. I'm like, no, it's not. Craig has a girlfriend. Austin and Madison have their thing and I'm friends with Madison. We're going to go to dinner. It'll be like friends or whatever. She's like, no, I guarantee you people are going to be like, Kristen's

hooking up with one of them, whatever. I'm like, no, I promise you they want it. Let's just go have fun or whatever. And then it turned into a shit storm. So I felt guilty. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. Wait, and the first live was that night? No, so that was in Charleston. We, um, we went to dinner. And let me just tell you about this dinner. So we go to dinner. We meet for the first time. We're going to dinner with Craig and his girlfriend was coming to the dinner. We go to dinner. He ends up inviting Austin.

So Austin and I sit right by each other. And I, Austin and I immediately hit it off. He's the funniest guy. He's so easy to talk to. I'm obsessed with Chris Craig. Kristen and Craig. We're all talking about having so much fun. And, um, Austin was saying, oh, I know that you and Madison talk all the time. Like she's so bummed. She couldn't be here. She's getting a boob job. We're all talking nice about Madison. We're having a good time or whatever. Um, we go home after dinner that night. And Kristen, I stay to each other because we don't like make a lot of new friends in our adult lives. You know, like, are your friends, like, who they are from whatever. And so we went home back to our hotel that night. We were, we were only there for one night. And we were both

staying and show like, how fun was that to make adult friends that was so fun? Because like, they had the connection of talking about reality TV and like rumors talking about you. And like, we just hit it off to it. It was like that friend. where we none of us wanted to leave dinner we were so we were laughing so hard we having so much fun we went home we're like we just made lifelong friends cut to a couple weeks later a few weeks later or whatever it was they came to nashville to do the podcast and we had that fun night and again it was just it's just fun like it's just a connection like people who like each other but it sucks because it's two it's different reality personalities and everyone wants to make it into something

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aside from the never ever getting back together and he's talking to you, Madison or whatever you said, that was the only thing that now all of a sudden putting it in perspective. I'm like trying. So you said that you're cool with her. Her and Craig are like if you thought it would be just like, oh, I'm poking fun. It's not a big deal. And she took it. It is so not a big deal.

And that's why I immediately when she did her crazy thing with the receipts, because remember, this is like right around the reunion coming out. So she wanted things be written and people to care about the reunion. And she also wants to be on the show again. So she played that game hardcore. But when that happened, that's when I immediately said, we'd never talk. And the phone was always text and DM. And I said, can I call you?

And she said, yeah. And I was like, Madison, what exactly are you doing? And that's when I said, I was like, Madison, this whole time, you and I have talked through all of this. You've been totally cool with this friendship. You've never, nothing's been weird. And then as I'm talking to her, and I'm just saying in the most real way, I'm like, oh, shit, she doesn't care. She's trying to do all of this.

So when we're talking on the phone, I say, do you have anything else to ask me? Are you confused? I'm like, because, Madison, you remember that you were invited to that dinner. If you came to that dinner, you'd be in that picture, too. You'd be dancing on that table, whatever it is. Like, this was never, there was never a us versus them thing. But the thing that was freaking weird is on the sidelines, two scorned X's that. wanted to make someone else jealous,

we're doing their own thing. None of us ever talked about that. We kept our mouths to us about, okay, you guys want to get together and do this weird thing. We're not going to bring it up. We're not going to go into it.

And they were 100% doing that to get Austin and Kristen to go crazy and to be jealous. But everyone was just kind of laughing. Like, this is so weird or whatever. I mean, I know you can't say this because you're friends with Kristen. Obviously, you respect her for ex-husband,

Jay, which I totally get. But if you guys think about it, when I talk to Shannon Ford, if you guys remember jay who is so like not a social media dude posted a photo when he went to lunch and shannon from very cavaliery with shanna for was there and what does that what does that tell you saying so you guys no i'm just connecting it right now so when shannon was on she told me the story she was like amanda i she first of all she's like very honest so she said like i she was like i came because i think like the guy that he was having lunch with invited her and she was like me and jay aren't

even like friendly but I was like sure I'll come and then Jay whips out the phone takes the picture and wanted to post it to his grid on the grid so what does that tell you on that side you know what I'm saying now I'm connecting it and I'm like wait so when shit where's the drama coming from like where who's who's like who's trying to get people to talk because they want some attention on it you know or yeah or some kind of payback because Kristen didn't get along with Shannon or whatever But it was weird because I remember discovering what Shannon was on. I was like, wait, so you're not even that cool with Jay. You came to this lunch because of like the mutual friend, get he posts a picture to his grid.

I mean, that's like a bit, a big thing. That's why I love you because it's like, I love that you talk about these things and you never mean, but you also like, you want to get to the bottom of it. You want to just kind of like figure it out. And I really also like with all this stuff, I was always saying to Kristen, I was like, if people really paid attention to all the timelines and who, was saying what it's pretty easy who's like looking for attention here or looking to make someone jealous or whatever it is you know so it was pretty easy and that's why i'm just like i'm blown away by

why are you so now like because you said to me you were like she like freaks you out why does she freak you out madison okay here's the like here's the way that also the madison thing went down because it's like i'm sure she's going to have some sort of like comment or whatever come back to this how it went down is four years since four years i've watched southern charm i binge watched like the first two seasons because actually molly shannon who's a client of mine forever the comedian was like her and i always talk about reality tv and she's like wait you don't watch southern charm and i'm like no so she's like binge it so i literally binge all of it got caught up whatever so then i was watching like as a fan watching the show all the time when madison first came on i don't know what season that was a few seasons back or a couple

season back. Madison came on to the show. Anyone who knows me knows that like I love like a pretty loudmouthed girl. Like it's just it's my thing, you know. So I'm sitting at home with my best friend and scooter my boyfriend. We're sitting in there. We're watching the show and Madison comes on for the first time. I'm like, this girl's fun. Like she's going to be fun on TV with her. So what do we all do? We all go to Instagram. We look that person up, right? So I go on Instagram. I look up Madison and she followed me. Not only did she follow me on Instagram, but she was wearing one of my cool blonde. on merch sweatshirts that I make. So she had a sweatshirt on tagging me

that I'd never seen before. So I was like, holy shit, this girl I'm watching on TV follows me and she has one of my sweatshirts on. So immediately I follow her and we start talking on DM and we just became friends. So then years go by and we've been talking because remember, she's a hair dress.

Right. And I'm in hair. So she was like, oh my God, I've looked up to you forever. I've loved your work, like whatever. So we had this friendship going on all these years. And it was like jokes asking each other questions. At one point I was like, oh, do you want to

come work in L.A. at this studio that I have. If you ever come to L.A., like, you're more than welcome to work out of the studio. You could work for me, like, whatever, because she was telling me she wanted to leave Southern or leave South Carolina at one point. So I was like, oh, if you come to L.A., you can work for my company and like, whatever. So we're always cool. So then when Chris and I were going to be down there, do you want to have dinner with us? We're going to be there for this one night. And do you want to go to dinner? She was getting her boobs done. So she couldn't. So we went with Craig. So even after that night, the next day, she had just gotten her boobs done, she wrote to me. She was like, oh, how was last night? It was like, oh, it was fabulous. We went to this one

restaurant. This was during like pandemic time. So I was like, we were in that private room of the one place, like no one was around. It was so much fun. And I even said to her, I was like, Austin's so great. I was like, he's even better looking in person and he's so charming. And she was like, oh, he's fooling you. He's whatever. But at this time, they're still kind of talking. So it's like, we've talked through all of this stuff, you know, and we're like, cool or whatever. And I'm like, oh, the boy. are coming up to Nashville, whatever it was. So it was just like, she blindsided me.

So, oh, the crazy part. Sorry, when I called her, when I got on the phone, I was like, oh, this girl's not trying to get to the bottom of anything or be just an honest person. Like, she wants to continue this. Like, she wanted everyone to talk about her, like, whatever. And so when I was hanging at the phone, I was like, because we were cool with each other. I was like, Matt, yeah, I was like, do you hear everything that I'm saying?

Do you have any other question asked me? Because I'm so confused how you're confused by this. We've been cool this whole time. nothing's been weird and we've been talking through this stuff like whatever and she's like no no everything's fine so we hang up the phone 20 minutes later she starts text messaging me crazy talk like stuff like you're a fucking asshole I can't believe this like why are you calling me a liar and I was like I literally wrote back to I was like Madison we just talked about that I was like do you want me to call you again and she's like no but why are you and then I realized oh she wants receipts from me she wants me

to start name calling her or something that's not even in my personality could never I think she was trying to get shit, like, documented, like, not on the phone? She was trying to bait me on text message being like, because I, we just hung up the phone being like, okay, everything's cool. And she literally was staying on the phone. She's like, Justin, oh my God, no, like, I adore you. I've been like, I've looked up to you forever, like in the hair world. Like, we've always been cool. We've never had anything weird or whatever.

I'm like, okay, well, that's where I'm like so confused why you're doing this now. And she's like, no, no, no, I'm sorry. I just like, whatever. And I was like, so do you have anything else to ask? Are you confused anything? She's like, no, no, no, it's totally fine. I swear, like, whatever. We hang up the phone.

And then the text, she must have thought about being like, I want to ruin Justin now. I don't think she said anything publicly specific. She didn't have your name in her mouth, right, at any point. Or did she? No, and because she would have no reason to because also, like, there's no reason. We've never had beef. We've been honestly, the whole thing. Like, we talked about us hanging out with Austin.

She asked me, like, oh, did Austin try to hook up with Kristen or anything that? I was like, no, there was no flirting happening at all. I was like, you have nothing to worry about it. She's like, ha ha, I know Austin could never get Kristen anyway. And always, to be honest, always putting Austin now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not a good look. But she was like, no, absolutely not.

There was no flirting going on, like at all. So she knew all of that. That's why it's just, this is the craziest situation. But to take it further after all that stuff happened, people who I know in common with her were sending me stuff being like Justin, she's. scary just like stop she will try to get things on you she'll try to like say she has nothing to lose like this is like her game and that's what i was just like i'm done i blocked her on everything blocked her on text message like everything wow and i'm just like whatever but whenever i mean

there's just so many things i mean she she that's her game and i think somebody like that is really really scary i think there's a lot of ways to succeed in life and that's really not one of them that doesn't take you far maybe for the moment you know but that's not going to get you very are you're not being honest you're not being a decent person and you're messing with like people's lives you know i love when you guys like send me or just share with me things that you've bought that i've talked about on here and one of you sent me your cute little delivery from imperfect foods love to see it love to see imperfections imperfections are what make us freaking beautiful okay we all have them so why hold our groceries to a different standard. Try to get your groceries from imperfect foods.

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to use promo code not skinny to get that 20% off again for a limited time imperfect foods helping the environment sustain being sustainable a f is offering 20% off to my listeners on your first order plus free shipping when you go to imperfect foods dot com and use not skinny to sign up there's so much i want to talk to you about and we talk so much about madison how pisses me off We're going to have to do a part too. It's like, we're like, don't give her more attention. Let's spend the whole podcast. Well, if she, and by the way, too, if she loves this kind of attention, then she could

absolutely have it. And that's why I'm also like, I'm not embarrassed right now. People like, oh, listen, Justin's still talking. He's giving her what she wants. If this is what she wants and she enjoys this, then let her have it. It can be fun for right now, whatever. I'm genuinely saying this won't go anywhere. And I really mean this from the bottom of my heart.

I hope she finds a way to learn. from this and move on and, like, be a better person and think about karma and think about honesty, you know, because reality TV fame can be really short-lived if you do it in that way of, like, spiteful, vindictive, cheating, you know, all that kind of stuff. I mean, the rumors that came out right after, which are true, by the way, and it's like, yeah, which are 100, like, that's not necessarily, I don't know how far it went, but like, I know people who she's even bragged about it, too, and show. own pictures and all that kind of stuff.

But also what I'm saying is it's like you're not a you're just not a good person. Arod is not something to brag about you guys. Like the fact that he would he's with if you were hooking up with JLo, that would be something to brag about. Okay. But like a ride, I don't know. Ever since that came out. And again, like I always tell my followers where there's smoke,

there's fucking fire. Like there's no way that there's so much going on. And it's like no, but it didn't happen. Like it was A rod. It was pretty much said. Yeah, sorry. I have to say this, though, because you were starting to say, and I really, really appreciate it because it's a big thing for me.

I am like the biggest, like, all my friends are girls. And I love strong women. I love independent women. I love, I love women since I was a little kid, like whatever. So I never think that men should yell at women. I also think that slut shaming is the grossest thing in the world. Women can do whatever they want. I think some people, some people you get what you deserve.

And then I also think she's very manipulative. that you can kind of play that angle like what do you but it's like you you but you literally created all of this it's you're not a victim here what however craig jumped with it on the reunion that did make me a little uncomfortable if you even said that on your podcast he said he drank too much and i saw we saw him right after that podcast and he's like oh my gosh like it was just a shit show we all got caught up in emotions so absolutely i don't stand by that and i wouldn't do that but i just think like this all comes from a place you know and absolutely when there's a cheating thing happening it takes two people like if it happened with a rod like he's gross and he decided to do it

and madison she did her own thing but it's like i think when somebody wants it to be public that's a different kind of that's a thing when she said on andy cone and watch what happens live when she was asked about jay instead of saying like she said i don't kiss and tell now when you're saying i don't kiss and tell you're basically kissing and telling you know what i mean she set the whole thing up for all of those conversations we had to keep her name in the press. Do you think they really hooked up, though, her and Jay? I mean, I don't know. To be honest, like, I, and the bummer thing is, is like, I don't want to talk about Jay and

that way. I haven't talked to Vince all of that. And that really did end up being a hard, I, we're not friends anymore. I've always, I talked to Jay for the whole divorce. Kristen is my best friend. I talk for every single day. We do everything together. So, of course, I talk to Jay and all that kind of stuff.

I got fooled there. I got played. I didn't really know what was. was happening there. So I haven't asked him any more questions. I don't want to know any more of it. When we first heard the rumors of maybe they were talking to each other, Chris and I literally were like,

let's just not even talk about this. Who cares if they want to do that to get back at people and just let them do that or whatever. The only time that it got weird was when Madison talked about the kids and I was just being a protective friend. The only thing I will say, Justin, I feel like you were almost too protective. You know what I mean?

Tell me why, though. I need a little bit of therapy. tell me why though because even looking back i'll give you the analogy it's like craig was too protective of austin at the reunion like you mean like let them fight their own fight but it wasn't even like so madison said you know she was like jay and then she said like oh the kids were like i'm saying you were it was obviously the instagram live was at your house for anyone who pays a little bit of attention could have seen that instagram live was at your house the kids don't sleep at your house. You know, they're probably in their own home with a babysitter with Jay. So it's like let her, like,

why did it hurt? Like, you're such a good friend. We know that. But why did you feel like you needed to protect Kristen from that so much? Because it had been going on for so long at that point and her doing it on Andy Cohen's show doing the sneaky little comment, then doing it on her live, her talking to different magazines. You can shut those rumors down in a second. And she wasn't. And what she was doing was using a name like Kristen Cavalry, which is much bigger than hers, to get clout. And that pissed me off. I was like, just stop talking about Kristen. And so that's where I got really mad because at the end of the day, if you, you're just

like let it go, like whatever. But it was really bothering me because I've also like, being with Kristen, I hope she doesn't get mad at me for saying this, but being with Kristen, like I do see how people use Kristen for clout. They talk about her. They say, I heard this about her so that there's things like the most random shit will get written about Kristen, you know? And so it's like, when I was watching this girl

keep kind of keep this story going because of course they're going to write about Kristen Cavalry's X, Kristen Cavalry's X, Kristen, and it was over and over, it really started to bother me because I was seeing Kristen and she's like, why are they fucking talking about me? And why don't they shut this down? Why aren't they be quiet about it?

So I did. I had that thing. And I don't regret it though. I feel like it needed to be said. And I think that like, I think in the crazy world, maybe I am the match for Madison where it's like, Madison, you're not going to get away with that. I'm a different crazy in the sense

I don't need to hold back. I stand up for my friends always. I love the freaking truth. You cannot lie. You know, like, I also get, like, the weird little, like, secrets that go to perpetuate a show, but, like, we're not on your show. We're not on Southern Charms.

So please stop doing that. Don't be on the reunion talking about, oh, you're hooking up with Kristen Cavalieri's X, J. That's disgusting. The reunion had happened by that point. So we knew that she was talking about it and showing the phone with the text messages. So I'm like, you're using Kristen

Cavalry to get your name in the tabloids. Cut it out. That's what it was. It's kind of lame to be using Jay Cutler for like that's what I'm saying it's kind of like no I don't mean in the bad way like okay if I was

looking up with Brad Pitt like yeah I would probably want to like sneak it in you know probably want to be like this is all this is reality world of time. It's not it's a different place to you. You can't compare it to Brad Pitt. I probably want to be like And I hung up with Brad Penn, no big deal.

But it's like, like you're really trying to like make this a huge thing that Jay Cutler slid into your DMs. Like, A, everyone slides into, like, if I wasn't married, I'd slide into everyone's DMs. I'd like be at an Instagram war. Like, that's all I would do.

I'd be like, who can I slide into? Like, so the fact that you're like in DMs with Jake Cutler, it's like, relax. And the thing is, like I said, and people should know this. people in that world and not everybody do do things like this like i had i'm like friendly with someone that is uh was a reality tv person and she had beef with her like ex-boyfriend and i hope people don't know what i'm talking about i'll tell you after and it's like she tells me and

she sends me like how like these people like the jake pauls of the world you know those youtube people like in tana manjoo or whatever those people will literally be like we should do this so that this they are really like that like people really they'll hang out with certain people to get photographed so it's not so it is a and yeah I can understand

not wanting to be you know associated with that but I was actually and this is important for me to say I was T Madison like you watching Southern Charm first seasons I was like love her little spunky little sassy you know cute little body

like she's gorgeous like I love that. I was very team Madison. Yeah. Yeah, I think that it was kind of icky whether you'd like her or not to see how she was loving every minute of this. Yeah. No. Yeah. That's the thing. I start off the exact same way. I love that. I love that kind of personality. I love a woman that like is strong and like whatever. Then when you start seeing like, oh, no, wait, they're actually shady. And I think it's a kind of scary thing when you see somebody actually do things on television to stay relevant. You know, like if that is like your dream to be.

be on a reality show and you are willing to do whatever that's a scary person you know it's like so i don't know she's you just saw it change you know it's scary so aside from justin being in this drums he has so much more to him first of all he's so much fun on instagram so if you're not following you already follow him a and that b your hair right now like i my hair is like black like it like a person of your blonde blocks right now well and i meant to say so much many things to you and then we just talked about that whole drop but whatever it's fun and you know there's people that want to hear about it and it's fun like people and anybody listening just take this for what you hear and then move on with it don't go coming back and like trying to start up anything

again just like hear it it's just like friends trying to clear the air whatever but my thing with you is like your hair you have like 90s supermodel hair you're like where it's like that like non color with some highlights going through do not color your hair it's perfect your big pouty lips you're like cat eyes like you're a 90 supermodel don't do anything with your hair color just so you could be my husband what did she call you in their last post no but oh i want to tell so did you move to Nashville to be closer to her because then you really win the best friend award of the world yeah i you know i'm born and raised in southern california my whole career has been doing hair color you know and i've you know done all the

celebrity stuff whenever but for years my boyfriend Scooter and I were, I've been saying, like, we want to get out of L.A. We wanted to change. And he kind of wanted to be closer to Ohio where he's from. And I was like, we can't move to Ohio, you know. And I was always saying to Kristen, like, I want to move to Nashville. So we picked Nashville. When we moved down here, she's like, oh, you should put it on the show like you moving down

here or whatever. And it turned in like a whole storyline. That's how the show happened. And then we've been down here. But yeah, I wanted to be closer to Kristen. Then with everything that's happened with the divorce, it's been so great because we are so close. And I love Nashville. Really? Yeah. Like in normal times, I will, my main business, like how I make money is for my products. We're at Sephora, Ulta, Nordstroms. We sell online.

Which are amazing, by the way, you guys. I use D.P. Hugh last night, the apple cider, um, shampoo and, like, conditioner. And I really do feel like today I have. Isn't that mask? No, I didn't do the mask. I did the mask. I did the mask. And by the way, I post. it and everyone is so jealous of me. And they were like, no, they were like, those products are so amazing, DPU. And can you tell? I don't know if you could tell on the Zoom, but I feel like I have like a less

of a frizz even today. No, your hair looks like smooth and shiny. That's the ACB. So the ACB in the products that's Apple-Sitabinerate and naturally seals the cuticle of your hair so it ends up making your hair shiny. No, I really do feel it. But I want to ask you, you sent me something that's like, it says that it has like something.

I want the like I'm really jealous of your hair color right now. There's something that says it has like color in it. What is that one? Oh, so they're at home glosses so they can gloss. It's a deep conditioner with added pigment. But they're really kind of like in the blonde world. It's just like a little tones of blonde. So you can re gloss your hair at home.

But I swear I'm not just saying to you like I love your hair color. It's like Gigi Hadid before she did that red thing. But like, my God, you know how to speak to me. You say GD me. You know it's done. I know, but I think your girls that you talk about, like, and I know, and you have that hair color. I love hair color that's kind of like a non-color, you know, where it's just like, you want to have

like little kids hair where it's like those natural highlights and stuff. Like, if you had a full head of highlights, that'd be so fucking basic. Let's be real. You know what I mean? Like, if you just had, if you had like, like, if you had a high, like, even mine, I have like, it's a beautiful color and stuff, but I have the gay highlights in the world, you know? But like, I love your hair color. If anything, if you and I, when times in normal, we get to hang out, like, I would do like a few

kind of like just little pieces throughout the ends. Yeah. So it looked like you had a San Trope summer or something. But don't do like a full head of highlights. I love you for saying that because I literally my whole life, I feel like hair stylis that wouldn't touch my color and would always be like, no, no, are the best. And then this one guy once gave me like a platinum, I'll have to send you a picture. It was platinum.

Like turned me platinum. Um, and it wasn't a good look. But I have to ask you, you have full lips like me and everybody asks me. do you, are they natural? No. I mean, yes, my lips are natural, but here's the reason why everyone talks. When I was a kid, I was kicking the bunk bed above me and I split my lip right here. So I have like full lips. I split my lip right there and I had stitches. So I have like a huge gap right there and I have a nasty list, lit list. So it looks like that. So two years ago and I put it on my Instagram story, I went into someone and they put filler in there and it looked hideous, like so bad.

So I don't have anything my lips. I get why people make fun of me for my lips online. People write the nasty things like what the fuck happened to your lips? Like what's wrong with you or whatever? And I get it.

It's like it looks like I have botched up lips but I had an accent with a kid. I got a... It doesn't look like you have botched up lips. It looks like you got lip filler. The way people ask me all the time. And I hate repeating it that I don't. I mean, I have a list because of it.

It's like my lit. It's like basically like I had a split lip. So it's, it's good but I thank you no I do have full lips for wait so once you're saying you try to fill this and then it looked like exaggerated when they filled the middle of it yes so I went to these girls who are amazing in Minnesota so I want to say because they I actually know they're a fan of yours the skin sisters in Minneapolis they're amazing at injectables and they are an actual fan of here so they're going to listen to this I went to them and I was like I was like everyone talks about

my lips and it really bothers me this gap this thing right here so they went in and they filled it in but I looked it looked even worse like you could totally tell like my lip moved even more weird. So you guys, Justin is I'm going to turn 40 in December. You look freaking amazing. Oh, I appreciate that.

I am good with the skincare stuff. But I stopped doing all Botox when I did. Oh, here's a fun for a reality show story because before I went on a Kristen show, that wasn't my dream. So I would totally do a reality show again if it was like fun and lighthearted and my own or something. But when I went to do Christian show for anybody listening,

put us in a reality show. Yeah. No, I already have. I already have my thing planned. But when we first went to do Kristen's show, I went to Dr. Diamond in Beverly Hills, who's like the guy who does everyone, right? And he's so good.

He does such natural work. And he was doing my Botox at the time. But before I did the show, I'm like, pump my face up. I need to look young. I'm going on the TV or whatever. So he did a bunch. When I watched myself on Kristen's show,

Barry Cabelaire, I was like, what the fuck happened to my face? I look like the cat. My face was frozen. My cheeks were like a different shape. So now I have no Botox, no filler in my face, like any of this stuff. And I 100% like it better. I like when guys have those lines right there.

Like I want to look like a man. I want to like, I want to grow older. I need to go back and look at what you're talking about because that like I just posted of Chloe Kardashian. Did you see her latest ad for Ips? It bums me out so much because Chloe's my favorite and she's gorgeous. And her face was like, frozen. No, but, like, my question is this, like, you said Dr. Diamond, and we all know he does great work, but that, that's my question.

And that's another thing. I don't want people to be like, there's such a fine line. Like, I don't want to hate on Chloe. I love Chloe. I want to hate on the fact that Chloe got too much work done. And if I was her friend, I'd shake her and, like, you would shake your old self being like, you don't need that. But why, like, what is this kind of pressure, which I say, you know, with Chloe, it's really easy to kind of. psychoanalyzed because growing up she was like the ugly duckling of the family she would get

the motion the tabloids and I feel like she's kind of at a war with herself to like look better and like be but but why isn't Kim who's so outspoken will always be like you know Courtney your outfit's ugly like why isn't she like Chloe stop well I can't say I can say from what I was just telling you I think that sometimes there's that point where you go in and it's just too much word. So I think probably even Chloe, because you followed that story and that's where I first saw it because you were talking about. And again, you said it in the nicest way. You weren't making fun of her. You were just pointing out like everyone else was and you're kind of having the conversation like what we're having right now. And I'm sure there's times where it's like when

you go in and you get work done, you just do too much. You know, and all of a sudden two weeks later when that Botox really kicks in and your face isn't moving. There's not really any turning back at that point. You know, so it's like her face will be back to normal. Yeah, that's what's so funny. People that don't get in our like she did a facial you know transplant it's like no she literally got too much Botox and fillers like she didn't get a facial surgery you know what I mean it's like she I think the key too that I've learned from you know all my years of doing hair and being up close in person with celebrities the people who look the best are the ones who like you can't try to tweak your facial features if anything as we get older you just want to kind of like lightly enhance maybe or like

the Botox like you do little freezes but it's always where when people start changing their face shape, you know. I'm with you. So it's like there is absolutely a point where you just do too much. And it could be the tiniest fit, but it's too much and your full face looks off. So there's a whole art too. You see it a lot. You see it a lot with reality stars.

Their eye gets wonky all of a sudden. You're like, oh, it's like the wonky eyes. Reality way real stars. But I think maybe they're getting like group ons or they're doing like the cheaper ones, you know. That's another thing. It's so funny about reality. When I hear people talk about reality, like on your page or all these other ones, they're getting paid so much to be on reality TV or like they're doing this for the huge

paycheck. I'm like, they're not getting paid a lot. You know who's getting paid a lot for reality? He was like Teresa Wheaties or like Bethany and they've been on forever. But it's like these other people like there's no money in reality TV anymore. You know, they're getting three votes on. Like look at Vanderpon Frules. They were still waiting tables for 17 years. Yeah. Well, I actually think some of them started making good money, but it's not crazy money. Like you could make probably just as much getting a job, you know, like, so I think that people do things for trade. I think plastic surgery for trade is a bad idea. Never do. You should all, if you're getting a plastic surgery, pay for it. I also say that with hair color, you have to pay money to

get good hair color. People are like, how does her highlights look that bad? I'm like, she got them for 30 bucks. Yeah. Like hair color and plastic surgery, fillers, whatever, you have to pay money or else it could be a bad, bad, bad, bad mistake. Justin Anderson. I had so much more to talk to you about, but we're going to hang out for sure. A, yes, and B. Kristen is your best friend, so she doesn't count. But who is your favorite celebrity that you've done hair for? If you go to my Instagram, Justin Anderson, color, you can kind of look at all the celebrities I've worked out. And I've worked on pretty much anyone I've ever wanted to work on. And I always say that, like, I really, I had the coolest clients. Like, they were all great. They were all amazing. And I always have this philosophy that, like, women who are at the top of their game are there for a reason it's usually because they're a hard worker they're a good person you have to remember that hollywood is small so in order to stay in that

world for a long time you have to be a good person people have to want to be around you but hands down i mean jennifer annison is better than anybody wants her to be she's the kindest sweetest most loyal good person like you just like being around her um but then also margot roby's fabulous myly has been a friend of mine forever and she's exactly she's just fun and like you always want to be around so are you responsible for the pixie cut i don't cut hair i'm only color hair and i mean i'm like i love nat i think your haircut can be as crazy as you want to play with it for the time your outfits can be as crazy as you want to be but like your hair color should always suit your face so women listening it's like you kind of want to stick with what like mother nature god gave you and

kind of just enhance it a bit i think little kids on the beach have the most beautiful hair color when it's just lightly kind of it's natural so um No, I never do crazy, crazy stuff. But you should always stick to, like, kind of what works for your. I agree. I agree. I love that. Justin Anderson, I love you.

Thank you for coming on. I'm so glad this brought us together. And I love how we both, like, kind of are in the same vibe that we can be bitches, but we mean well. Isn't that a nice? That's our housewife's tagline. Like, we're bitches would be mean now. Like, if you get it, then you get. that's how I knew when people were like, he's calling you out.

I'm like, no, he's not. I get him. He's not calling me out. Anyway, everyone, go follow Justin. If you don't already. And we're going to have to do a part two because Madison took up all our time. Yeah. And if I offended anyone, don't let it offend you. Just like hear out my voice. I don't want to offend anyone. I just want to talk and tell the truth. Like, so. There's no skin in the game. What I'm really saying? Don't come to me any bad comments. I've got it. Don't add him. Don't add him unless it's a compliment. Okay. All right.

Thank you guys. Thank you guys so much for listening. to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday.