Not Skinny But Not Fat - CAMILLA LUDDINGTON: GREY'S ANATOMY, ZOLOFT & REALITY TV

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

I catch up with GREY’S ANATOMY star Camilla Luddington! The English born actress has been playing Jo Wilson for 21 seasons! We discuss what it’s like acting on a medical drama, co-stars that came and went, her new podcast with Jessica Capshaw, dealing with anxiety, taking meds, and her love for Vanderpump Rules!Produced by Dear MediaThis episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny Bonafat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars from my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hi, guys, happy Tuesday. Welcome to another episode of Not Skinny Banffat. enough fat. This is Amanda, your girl, a girl who just did Pilates. Who am I? You guys are like, who are you? And it's a great question. It's a great question. And I'm sore. And I like being sore. Like, I'm sorry. What? I did always love Pilates. And then everyone started

doing Pilates. What are they called Reformer or like whatever you get on that machine that straps you in? I don't like that. Surprise. In like 2012, I used to do like Pilates on a mat and loved it and got an ab and people used to call me Amanda two pack because I had like two I think and then I spent years trying to find like the same kind of Pilates that I did with that instructor after I moved away from where I was living and I couldn't find it and then I literally stopped working out. I finally found someone that does the Pilates that I love. She comes to my house. We do Pilates Matt. Listen, your own body weight just does the most like honestly. And I also do one time a week of like weights and shit like honestly who am i but i'll tell you this like

and i've said this on the birth pod like lenny love him worth it but took a toll on the bod so i literally unlike me and very off-brand started working out like pretty much when i was kind of allowed to and now i'm like kind of i'm like you are were you okay like were you tired like how did you get into this. And I realized that I'm just happy. Whatever it was, however high I was off like being postpartum or not sleeping that I signed up for like two workouts and I'm like doing them consistently since. Like good for me. Pat on the back. I don't know how it happened. But I'm happy it happened because what the hell? Like I'm doing it. And now it's part of my routine. She has a routine. Very weird. We got another funny thing that happened this week is we were walking

Me and Huss were walking to Noah's school. He had like a Hanukkah event. And I saw on the street as publicist that I know. And she's so funny and I love her. And she loves me and my family. And she's always so kind. And anyways, we run into it on the street. But she's never met Huss. So then I see her. I hug her. We talk and she looks over at husband. She's like, wait. Husby, you're cute. And she's like, oh, wait. Husby, you're cute. And she's like, wait. You make him look like such a nerd that like especially funny. So it's like especially funny. She's like, wait. You make him look like such a nerd that like, doesn't talk and like he has some edge like what's going on and like he was bright red and it was just so funny and I was like oh my god do I make him seem like a nerd that doesn't talk I think I do and honestly he does have swag and the reason I even started liking him back in the dizz was because he was like cool so apologies to him for making him seem uncool and like he doesn't talk which he doesn't talk that much in my defense but he like spoke to her and like you know how the thing is no one knows his voice so she was like shocked. Anyway, it was so funny, she couldn't stop being like, wait. And I was like, oh my God, what am I doing to him? Just posting his calves and his flip-flops. Listen, I think

you guys aren't going to see this yet, but I saw the baby girl movie. I saw a screener for it. I saw 10 a.m. Erotic thriller. Okay, you guys, with a bunch of like journalists and shit, because when you go to a screener, it's usually people that would write about the movie. Hot, hot, hot, hot. Like, Nicole Kidman is motherfucking grunting. Okay, she's orgasm. on the floor. She's masturbating to like Dom porn. Like it's crazy. Harris Dickinson. Oh my God. Oh my God. Arielle and I were ready to blow up our lives. Okay. Blow up our lives for this character. Like Harris Dickinson plays Samuel in the movie. We were like blowing up our lives for fucking Samuel. Okay. We were like, what's wrong with us? We want that. Like we want it. We need it now.

Blowing up the life. Then I just kept seeing interviews with Harris Dickinson, who's like so great, so talented that he can like, but he's not Samuel. Like once you watch it, please let me know. Like he's not Samuel. Okay. So anyway, when you see this movie, you will enjoy it because it's so fucking hot and he's so great. And it's just like one of those movies that like there's not a dull moment. Okay. There's not one moment that you're like, oh, they shouldn't have included this. It's all good. It's all hot. It's all suspenseful. I fucking love it. Anyway, in a sharp turn to today's podcast guest. This was one of my favorite shows.

I used to binge watch the show. I know a lot of people are still binge watching this show because it will keep going forever. Fingers Cross, Gray's Anatomy, star Camilla Lettington. She plays Joe Wilson, who I love, which her and Correv should have ended up together. Like, why did Correv leave? That's a whole other story.

Why did anybody leave that show? A whole other story should have stuck around. like Camilla Luddington and Ellen Pompeo. Okay. Anyway, Camilla Lettington is here. She's so fun. I've loved following her on Instagram. She's like so good at it. She's a content creator queen. She also has a new podcast with BFF, Jessica Kapshaw from Arizona from Grey's Anatomy.

It's called Call It What It Is. Anyway, Camilla is obsessed with reality TV. She's just, she's just like us. So enjoy my convo with Camilla. Lettington. Oh, and happy Christmas. happy Hanukkah to all those who celebrate. M-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-kma-kha. Camilla is loving my studio.

I'd love it. I want to steal all the things. Okay. What are you stealing? Okay, well, you made fun of me because they're not real, but I do, I, the jungle behind us. Yeah. I said a little more oxygen in the room. Yeah.

Where do you record now? You're a new podcast. I'm semi-new. I record in my home. Oh. Yeah. But it's good and bad. If you're in L.A., you can, are you in L.

LA? Yeah. Good and bad, though. I mean, it's like my dogs are barking at different people. You know, it's a whole thing. Do you have a guess on? If I have a guest, I'm in the studio. Okay. Not in my house. Yeah, you're like, sorry. Yeah, it's very weird. Yeah, I don't want to do that. Yeah. Because sometimes you don't know everybody and you're like meeting for the first time. Right. Yeah. No. No, no. But this is a good setup. Yeah. At the Iheart studios in Los Angeles. You like it. We don't have any plants. Oh, okay. Now I'm tracking. When you record in studio, I know your setup. It's very, like, more official, like, conference room vibes. Yes. Got it. I don't want those vibes. You want more of, like, a couch vibe.

Yes. Eyeheart, step it up. Sorry. Sorry, I heart. I love you. Hi. I'm so happy you're here. You're so gorge.

It's all makeup. Didn't not wake up like this. No, your eyes are like this really pretty, like, is that hazel? Yeah. That's hazel, ladies and gentlemen. If you're wondering what hazel eyes look like, it's them. They're really pretty. I think. Joe Wilson. I know. The cutest there ever was. Did I watch mashups of you and Karev this morning in preparation? Oh, my God. I'm sorry. You did. Well, do you like her and her new love, Link? I'm down, but like, will I always love her and Karev? Yeah. But like his thing, we'll talk about it. But when you first walked in. Okay. Because I remember being shocked back in the Dizzle that you're English. And then, yeah. Yeah. I remember being like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

What? Yes. Are people still to this day shocked? Yeah. I think most people know. Yeah. And they, I think most people know at this point because they're very confused by my accent. Yeah.

That it's just during the season that we film, which is nine months of the year. And it's been 13 years. It's not going to be fully British anymore. And when I'm in it, it just goes, it's just very American. So when you, when you started, though, was it hard? It was definitely hard. Yeah. But did you always know how to do? Well, you lived here a little bit when you were younger. I lived here for one year when I was 14. That's it? That's it. I could always do an American accent

when I was really little. How? I think it's because in the UK and all over the world, it's your media that we're watching all the time. Yeah. So it's like I grew up with like American movies. I'm watching the little mermaid has an American, you know, all the, and so when I was just really young, I would go to the supermarket and be like, just pretend to be American. You're saying that, but like I, so many times, like, this is one of my favorite things to do. I'll be watching a movie,

not know the actor or a show, right? And I'll be like to my husband who doesn't care, like, I'm going to Google them right now. You'll see they're British because I could tell by the accent, by the way they're speaking English. Yes. Sometimes they drag out like more of the letters because it's like harder for them to do. I can hear it too.

So, but you did, that's something like you, it's not like, give yourself more credit. Not every British person can fucking do it. I can do it pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff I do not well and I can do it pretty well. I mean, other accents?

Gardening, cooking. I mean, there's a fucking laundry list of shit I'm terrible at. But the accent. But you were talking about the ADR booth and I feel like I've been hearing a lot about ADR booths lately. And sometimes I like, I swear, I'm not joking. They're like the place to go. Yeah.

I mean, what are you hearing? I love when you break the fourth wall and, like, explain back, because you assume we all know what it is. We don't. That's true. So you, what's ADR booth? So the ADR booth is when you screw up something, right? Basically, a lot of times you screw up something. So say for our show, you say a medical line, a word wrong.

Or sometimes they want to add a line or sometimes something happens and something's fallen on your line or someone coughed on your line. You want to clear it up. the audience can hear you. Yeah. You go into a booth with a microphone similar to this and some cans and you re-watch the show on the screen and there's beeps and you have to re-say the line and try and match it to your lips. But in the early days, I had my notes for accent, accent, accent, accent, accent.

Oh, wow. So you could hear your accent. My accent. So you had to go in and do a better American accent. Yes. And I even had to do, I mean, it still happens. I did it a couple weeks ago. And I was like, play it again.

I can even hear what I do. said? No, because I can't, I can't remember. It was one word and I can even hear. Do they give you at least a bunch or is it every episode you have to go in? Or they give you a few episodes. No, you go in one episode at a time, which is why I refer to. Where's this booth? There's in Burbank. Yeah, it's far from my house. Or sometimes it's at the studio. It's such a nuisance. Yeah, sometimes it's annoying to do the whole drive and then you get there and there and then there's just one line. Stop. So you're in for like two minutes. You can't send it from your phone voice note. We do that in the sun. We do that in the sun. summer actually. You do? Yes, and I just did it from New York. Yeah, I was staying with my friend Jessica, and I put a blanket over my head and I was, said my line. Which is in New York, Jessica Kaptcha? Yes. Really? Yeah. I didn't realize. She's upstate. Oh. Yeah. Lots of celebs moved upstate. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. A lot of pandemic moving. So wait, tell me about this year. Why did you come from the UK to America for a year? My dad worked for 3M growing up, the company that makes post-its, right? And so we, he had like a job transfer assignment for about a

year and a half. So in 98, I moved to Austin, Texas. What grade were you in? The end of middle school, what is that? Like, you've been, seventh, eighth? So you came for eighth? I came for the very last year of middle school and the very first year of high school. And I came from like a very small private school that was run by nuns that was all girls in England. And I went to like public school in Texas. And I loved it. You know what's so crazy. You have two kids. Yes. Right. And like schools is such a big thing to think about, right? You're like, where are they going to go? Yes. And you have to decide like kindergarten, the school they're going to go for their whole lives and all this shit. Meanwhile, you know, yeah. Look at you. Oh yeah. Like I moved around a lot. Yeah. And you were fun. And you were fun.

you're fine you have a four year old i have a four you have four too i have four boy oh crazy cuckoo crazy not super i have to say my daughter had more energy she's seven really yeah she was like one of the lost boys in in peter pan wow yes so boy maybe that's the is he into like superheroes costumes things like that yeah okay yeah spider man yeah all of it all of it all of it but i'm thinking about kindergarten i'm like where is he to go for the rest of his life and then my mom is like, you have to decide the one school isn't going to go to forever. I'm like, mom, I literally, you moved me around. Like, how are you telling me this? Did you like it? I don't remember. I'm fine now. You know? I liked it. You liked it? Yeah. I think I, I remember

in high school, because that was big that I moved to, like you, popped into New York City Public School. And I was like, this is cool. Like, yeah, even though I was popular in my last school, everything was going for me. And I still was like, new is cool. So yeah, I was down. But I think it depends what kind of person you are. Were you always, like, confident and outgoing now going now? Yeah, yeah. I felt like it was just a new opportunity to meet people. But only one year and then he went back to the same school and...

I end up going back to a different school, actually, because I was like, I don't want to, now that I've seen this, I want to like... Well, I'd like to be with, like, not nuns. Yeah. Not so fun. And some boys. Yeah. So then I went to a different school and then I didn't like that school and I ended up going to an international school. that had a lot of Americans in England. Oh, cool. Did you ever miss Texas? Yeah. Stop. That's cute. Do you go back ever? Like that's easy? Yeah, I've been back. I've been back for press. And then during the pandemic, my husband, I flew in to look at houses, actually. Like maybe. Yeah, to think maybe this would be a move one day. Yeah. But I got to say, I was like, we'll be able to get more land here. Well, no, Austin's really fucking expensive. Also, like, no, like some, what some taxes. No.

state taxes? No, yes. I mean, compare it to California, sure. No, none at all. None? None. Zero? There are states that don't have state taxes. So if you see people all of a sudden moving to like Florida or Texas, now why? This is news to me. Yeah. Maybe I wish you. You're like, wait, why didn't we do that? Yeah, I'm telling you, not because of the taxes. I'm telling people that move there, move there sometimes for the taxes. Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, are saving the state. so like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're an American citizen now. I am. When Trump got to be president the first time around, I was like, I don't trust that I'm going to get to hold on. With your green card. Yeah. I'm going to go and get citizenship. Yeah. That test is hard. It's no joke.

It's, yeah, my husband studied for it. And I watched and I was like, I'd fail. Well, I ran it with my husband. And he was like, you're going to be fine. I don't even know if you need to study. And I was like, let me just, let me ask you some questions. He would not. He would not. have become a citizen. No. He was like, I don't know any of this shit. No, it's literally all the, the constitution, like everything. Yes. Yes.

Do you still go back? Where are you from in the UK? I'm from a little town called Wokingham in Barkshire. Is that far from London? Like an hour. So do you go back still? Is your family there? My family like to come out and visit me.

And I don't want to go home. You don't want to go home? Not really. I mean, my family, I love. of them. This is not a spoiler. They know I feel this way. They feel this way about me. They're all really annoying. So I just have to... In a real way? Like in a real way? Like in a... Yeah, they're very annoying. Like in what way? Like, they're just really opinionated. We're all very opinionated. We're all in each other's business too much. Yeah, that it's good to have some distance.

Yeah. Like, I'm okay being on the other side of the world. Wow. But like we have a what's that chat together, a sibling chat, that's all day, every day. And every single one of us at some point has, like, stormed out. Oh, we do that too. Yeah. And then you know what the humiliating part is? Re-adding them. You have to, yeah. Who's the admin, though? Are you an admin? I think I'm the admin for the most recent one. But that's the other thing. Sometimes I like, when I'm not admin, I've stormed out. Yeah. I've been sucked back in because I just add you back in. Oh, my God. I'm like, no, this isn't over. And I'm like, wait, is everyone in it? like brother. What do you have? Two brothers and a sister. Wow, four kids. Yeah. We're all in it. Yeah. So I have to be in the right. And parents do or no? My mom passed when I was young. Oh, I'm sorry. That's okay. And that my dad's still home. They're all still there. Yeah. Listen, I'll go back when the flight that's 11 hours doesn't sound terrible for two little kids, the time difference. And when they're a little bit less annoying. The family, not the kids. All of them. Yeah. Everyone together is less annoying.

I know 11 hours. From L.A., things are far. Yeah. From New York, it's a little bit easier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Much easier. So do your kids, like, know their family there? They do because they come visit me.

Oh, they come to you. They come to me, and they come individually. So, like, my sister will come, and then my brother will come. If we're all together. That's too much. Gotcha. We're going to have a blow up. Wait, so you have two kids.

Usually people that come from a certain size family want the same thing. You know, if you're four kids, if you grew up with three brothers and sisters, you usually want that. Were you, did you feel that? Or did you want two kids? To afford four kids in Los Angeles. Crazy. I also, like, I have anxiety. I talk about this on the podcast a lot. So I didn't have any anxiety. And then I had kids and I had so much anxiety. God bless Zoloft. Love it. Oh, same, sis. Same. Oh, really? Well, I've had it before kids, but yeah. I talk about Zoloft all the time. Oh, yeah? Yeah, because I think it's important because when I, I didn't want to go on an antidepressant.

And when I, it felt like, no, not me. Not me. And I remember Googling who's on it to sort of see. Would you find? Amanda, see-free. Shut the fuck up, Camilla Ludington. Same. Same.

Really? Motherfucking same. And I said this on a podcast. Have you interviewed her? No. But I said this on a podcast because I love talking about it for the same reason. And I said, I remember doing that same motherfucking Google. Yes.

And I even know that Amanda Seifred was a motherfuckering lexapro, not so long. Yes. And I remember saying, not only that, I think she even said I was on it pregnant. Like she came out and said that. Oh. And I was like, it made me, her name on there made me feel very comforted because, and then I thought like, well, me going on it, I need to throw my name out on the list because the list isn't that big. of people that have talked about it. I mean, yeah, we both know Amanda Seifred, yeah. We know, yeah, exactly. So I feel like, and the list is way longer than that.

Way longer. So let's talk about it. Add us to the list. Add us to the list. We want to be on the list. But it's interesting you say that. I remember when I started taking Zoloft, I was embarrassed by it to the point where I hit it in my, like, sock drawer or whatever in college. And I remember my friend, like, seeing it and being like, what is this? And I was like, as if I was like on heroin, Yeah, yeah. Totally. And I think that affected my relationship with it so much that I ended up weaning myself off, getting horrible side effects, whatever. Years later, back on it. Yeah. Same kind of progression of why me, how am me Amanda, you know? Yeah. To now when I'm like, come here, child. Yeah. You know, come a little blue baby. Come here. We'll be right back after the break. I'm now postpartum for a second time. and I don't play around. I don't play around. Last time I waited until I saw the damage of postpartum to my hair, like hair thinning, shedding. And this time I was proactive about it. I had Nutraful, the postpartum formula lined up, ready for me to take it as soon as I gave birth because I do have the breastfeeding friendly formula, which is the postpartum formula. So immediately I was like, boom, boom, bam, okay? I'm coming out this prepared. But Nutraful, you guys, it does really work.

Like you know when people are like, does this really work? Yes, it really does work. So I do highly recommend it. I've been taking it since Noah was born because it has just like great ingredients in it, a bunch of vitamins. It's obviously drug free. And you can see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. Especially now it's the cold, dry air of winter. It could be unforgiving. But your hair does not have to suffer for a limited time Nutraful is offering my listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and you enter the promo code not skinny. It does really work. Like you know when people are like, does this really work? Yes, it really

does work. Find out why over 4,500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Nutraful for healthier hair. Nutraful.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com, but the promo code is not skinny. I literally shrieked when I found out that Bowlin Branch is available to shop at Bloomingdale's. Like these are the sheets and bedding that I use and I always spread the gospel. But I feel like it's just so much easier for people to shop at like one of the department stores that they know because they're already shopping there and it's just like one more thing to add to cart. I'm so happy Bowling Branch is now at Bloomingdale's and you can experience the comfort that Bolin Branch's soft organic cotton bedding has. their sheets are actually so amazing that they get softer with every watch and they deliver really long-lasting comfort and quality because they're made from 100% organic cotton and

their fair trade certified. And this is like luxurious. Like this is like your bed will look like an influencer's bed. It's really like neutral classic styling that fits any bedroom aesthetic and it also has sustainable sourcing. So eco-conscious customers love it. And it's just such quality. I have the signature ham cheats set. It's made from 100% organic cotton with a soft, smooth feel. It's just so good, you guys. I also love all of their waffle blankets. They're so yummy. And right now, you can shop Bowling Branch at Bloomingdale's, which is exciting on its own at Bloomingdale's Online. And if you use code not skinny 20, you'll get 20% off your purchase. So again, you go to Bloomingdale's Online, you shop Bowling Branch,

and you use code not skinny 20 and you'll get 20% off your purchase. Enjoy. I've been obsessed with the color wow dream coat for a while. Like I remember the first time I used it. I was like, wait, this is a dream. Like, this is magic. And you know I don't say like that anything changes my life or is life changing, but the dream coat really is.

Like, this is a change that you'll notice. This is like it'll give you a salon style blowout. Like literally. It went viral. It's a frizz. and humidity fighter that sells one every five seconds. And now Color Wow, which is a female founded, family-owned business. They just did it again.

They came out with Money Mist, which is a light ultra-lux leave in treatment for all hair types, especially for like dry and damaged hair. It really strengthens, hydrates, and detingles. It also gives like a glossy, expensive looking head of hail. And it also has heat protection built in so you don't have to add that. And it's sold out. three times since launching, and it's an Oprah Daily's beauty award winner for Best Leave and Conditioner.

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amazing product, both of them, add those to cart and get 20% off all products when you use the code not skinny. Colorwowhair.com slash not skinny. Code not skinny for 20% off all products. And we're back. So tell me what, if you're comfortable, you said you shared, but like what was your...

So I suffered a lot from health anxiety. My mom passed really suddenly, and she was young. She was 43. How old were you? 19. And my siblings were, some of my siblings were younger. And so when I had a kid, it did this thing where, and I've heard that this is the experience actually of a lot of people that have lost parents.

So I ended up feeling like that was going to be my legacy too, right? Like I'm going to pass early and I'll never see their wedding and I'll never meet their kids. And I started to be really paranoid about anything where I could be sick or they could be sick. I was waiting for the ball to drop, right? Like, I was just prepared for anything. And then the pandemic happened. And it real, I was pregnant during the pandemic. Uh-huh.

2020, yeah. Yeah. And when was your son born? August. Same. What is it? August 5th. Oh, my God.

Seventh. Crazy. Same exact. What's his name? Lucas. Lucas and Noah. That's fun. Lucas and Noah.

Bye. That's cute. Wow. Oh, my God. Noel. Oh, okay. So you know what that was like. Yes.

We didn't even know if people could be allowed in a hospital. My husband could be allowed in the hospital. I mean, they wanted us to, like, be with the mask. And I was like, no, like to push with the mask. I pushed with the mask on. Pushed with the mask. Yes. I was like, I can't breathe.

That's wild. Yeah. Doctors appointment's by yourself, right? Yeah, so stressful. I mean, it was very stressful. So it really ramped up. And then after the pandemic, I remember we were treating ourselves to a vacation in Hawaii. And I'd never been to Maui, and I was really excited.

I'd only ever been to Hawaii one other time. Went to Hawaii. and I fucking ruined this vacation for myself. I was, I had so much anxiety for no reason. But what, about what? Like being in a foreign place? Just like all of it.

Like I just, if they're going to go into the ocean and they're going to drown, they're going to go into the pool and if I don't grab them and they, you know, I just, I was imagining so many scenarios that by the end of that, I was like, I'm done. I'm sick of my own shit is what I. felt like. Yeah. Like I ruined this vacation and I'm never going to do that again for myself. So I got home. I said to my therapist, fine. Sign me up for whatever the fuck it is. Why had she suggested it before? She had. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, not me. Somebody else not me. Embarrassing. And then I talked to a psychiatrist and she said, let's just start you really low. Yeah. And I was like,

fine. And then I just, it was really life changing. Really? Yeah. That's that. That's, That's great. Did you have like anxiety attacks or just kind of those? I'd had anxiety attacks before. But what I hated even more than an anxiety attack is I just felt like a general. I was I was so used to living with just a general anxiety every day. Yeah. Like I was just operating with a lot of anxiety. Yeah. And that was normal for me. And that was normal. And you kind of accept it. You're like. Yes. And now do you feel like completely produce itself pop up? I mean, I think I probably have anxiety like. like normal amounts. Yeah. Yes. Yes. It does tend to pop up on like trips and stuff, I feel like, even more so. Because you're not in your, yes. When you're in your comfort zone, yes. Things are familiar. You usually can like coast. Yeah. And when things are like different, you're like, what's going on in your hyper alert? And it's just like crazy. Yeah. So thank you for talking about it. It is really important. I think it's really important. Clearly, we both did the Google and Amanda, by the way, I love you. Because.

You're like one of the first. Imagine. Like I feel like she doesn't know. We need to tell her. She needs to be on. I know she needs to be on and know that like she made us be okay with Zola. You can tell her. Yes.

Me and Camilla. Yeah. So did you in all this time growing up through coming to Texas back know that you wanted to be an actor? Yeah, I was like four. Stop. Yeah. It was really young. And what?

I just, I knew the Wizard of Oz with my favorite movie. Yeah. And I didn't want to be Dorothy. I wanted to be Judy Garland. And nobody in my family had ever been in the industry. Not a nepo. No. Would have, yeah, no.

Would love to be. I was like, that would have been great. And so my mom was like, no. And her opinion was that like you end up like a stage brat, basically, like super precocious. And I just begged them to put me in acting classes and dance and all the things. And so I took classes really young at Italian. a Conti, an acting school in England. And then I got my first agent when I was 11. And I was just doing a lot of theater. And then came to the U.S. and studied at the New York Film Academy.

Oh, right. And so I did New York for a little bit. Was that what's a little bit? How many years is that? I think I was here just a little over a year. And then I went to Los Angeles. Okay. So it's a year program to do that. I was the first one year, whatever it was at the time. Uh-huh. It's a long time ago, acting program for a film. And were you auditioning at that time, too? No, and thank God, because I was really bad. Yeah?

For on camera, it's so different. Uh-huh. So they would do like a mock audition. And I remember for the first time, I had a reader here, very different to stage, right, theater, the West End, and they had a camera here. And I didn't realize that in an audition, my lines should be like this. And the first mock audition, I did just the whole thing with the camera. Made love to the camera.

Wait, was it one of those schools? where you then have to watch yourself and everyone's critiques you. So embarrassing. Because I watched them all back and everyone's not looking at the camera. And then mine started and it was like a deep eye contact. No, I'm dead. Yeah, thank God. You did that for years.

Move to L.A. Did you have the same agent from London? Did you get a new agent? So my agent in London that I ended up having an agent as a kid and then I got an agent as an adult and they were just terrible. I mean, it was like the one audition I had, which I was like, I'm not doing that, was for, like, some tragic cruise ship for, like, you know, 80-year-old people. Doing what?

Like, you know how, like, there's the entertainment team? I was like, that's what they got you? Yeah, and I was like, no, that no. You were like, no. It felt very rock bottom. Yeah, yeah. And I hadn't even started yet. Yeah.

You're like, I want to start a little bit. Let me be an extra somewhere. Yeah. So what was your first thing? Oh, it was a show with Christian Slater. Oh. Called The Forgotten. This is a million years.

years ago, and I played a murder victim. Uh-huh. I don't think I had any lines. Oh, did you die? Oh, so you died? Yeah, like right away. Were you a body? I was a body. Yeah. I was a really good body. Yeah? Yeah, I can know. And we and then it kind of flashed back to like where, like, how did I get to be a body? Wait, so when did you do William and Kate? Before that. After that. This is my, this is my very first. gig that I had like then I did a bunch of different stuff I did days of our lives a little one episode I was kind of hopping around yeah and then I was really blonde and I started Googling on auditions I didn't get who got the role every single time it was a brunette every single time okay so I went to a wig shop and I threw in a brunette wig and I took a picture and sent it to my agents and my manager and this is my new one in Los Angeles that were actually good and I said I think I want to go

Brunette. They said, go for it. And my booking rate just went... You know that there was just an article about this? No. Yeah, like Sidney Sweeney, like a lot of different actors spoke about this. Like, Cindy Sweeney, I think, was the other way. Only when she was blonde, it started working for her. Yeah, there's like a big thing about this. Yes. It really changed my career. So very soon after William and Kate happened. Thank God. You were Brunette.

Yes. I would never have gotten that. I mean, I don't even know if I would have gotten in for the audition. Wait, so the audition, though, was in L.A. It wasn't like a British production. It was in L.A. Okay. No, it's definitely not British. What was that like? You couldn't tell by the movie. Wait, so what? Were you into the Royals? Was that like exciting? No, never. I wasn't super into the Royals. Okay. I love Princess Diana. Yeah. But I wasn't super like, you know, William and Kid obsessed. Yeah. Now this is my moment. No, but I loved I, you know what? I love that movie.

Because it was so, it was three weeks of filming because they shoot those things so fast. Yeah. Right. And he just had so much fun. And then it came out and it was cheesy, delicious, you know, lifetime. And it was like great. And then I went from that to being. To graze, no?

No, I got butt-ass naked on Californication. I went from Princess Kate to like slutty and any. Everyone tells me to watch Californiacation still. Like, it's one of those shows that people are like, best show ever. Like, how haven't you watched it all? And I know that I would love it. I haven't watched it yet. It's really, I mean, it's a great show.

Wait, so you, did you get naked with David DeCovine? No, I got naked with Evan Handler. Do you know who that is? No. Okay, and sex in the city, Charlotte's bald husband? Harry? Harry. You got a neighbor with Harry?

You had a moment? We are. We had many moments. Like, what? Not this. Yeah. But. And boobs?

Boobies. Really? Yeah, but I, you know, it's like you're, I was in my 20s and I was, you know, I didn't even have to work out. and I was, you know, it's like one of the, now? Yeah. No. First of all, you look amazing.

Thank you. But like. You wouldn't feel the same. You're saying taking off the clothes. No. I would need like a tent up to my eyeballs. Stop. Shut up.

It's so different. No. It's not the same. Hell yeah. And after kids? Well, you turned 40 recently. I did. No, you're on.

I'm about to be 41 next month. Wait, how was the 40? Was it a big? I loved it. Yeah. Did you do something big? I'm not. I'm not offended that you said that.

Well, I mean, because I feel like you have two kiddos. Right. And people are waiting later to have kids. I know. I'm 36. So you have, I mean, I feel like, honestly, I didn't feel much different from 36 to 40. Yeah, I feel like 40 is so hot. I think 40 is amazing.

Yeah. Because my 30s were better than my 20s. Yes. That would feel like we can all agree on. You're in the trenches and your 20s. Yeah. No one misses their 20s. Gross.

You're like that body on californication though You're like, miss that I miss those jeans I used to wear No, I'm just thinking because we had On our podcast people write in with their like problems Yeah And we've had submissions where people are Have kids and they're with their husband

They really miss their life in their 20s I don't though Okay, no I'm trying to like respect that I think like a drunk brunch You don't have to worry about going home and parenting There's no drunk There's no bottomless memo is happening for me.

I think the thing that we can agree on that's better in your 30s is like you to you. Not even the kids and the added stuff, just like you to you. Yeah. Like who are you? Who are you now? Yeah. What decisions are you making? How you feel about yourself as a person, not like hotness and stuff.

Yeah. But I think it's that that I can, I think that for every, for most people, the 30s are better. Because you're like, you know myself. Yes. Like I'm. I got more together, like, not a dumb bitch as much as I was. Not as much. Not as still dumb bitch, though.

Always. Always. 40, I feel like is probably going to be better. Yeah. That's what I'm feeling. And also, all the women that I look up to that I'm like, they're hot, they're in their 40s and 50s. Like who? Who's your, like, biggest?

Well, I mean, like, Gwyneth looks, is glowing. Yeah, Gwenneux glowing. J-Lo? Crazy. Not normal. Zoe, motherfucking Sal Dana. Like, excuse, that's not normal.

That's a different situation. Yeah. But I feel like Winona Ryder, I just Beetlejuice. I'm like, she looks, all the women. All the women. All the women.

Getting better. Yeah, I'm not looking at the younger girls wanting to be that anymore. I'm always looking this way. Yes, you're so right. Sometimes I'm like younger girls. What are you doing? Step it up and look like Gwenna.

Like, yeah, we don't relate, but it's probably because we're older. Yeah. Wait, so tell me about getting grazed, though. Were you watching the show? Because what season did you come in? I came in in season nine. I mean, I had watched it. Of course, I mean, it was this huge phenomenon. Yeah. And then I was on True Blood and I was going to Comic-Con for Tomb Raider because I play Lara Croft in the video games.

So I was at Comic-Con and I tested for a pilot for Shonda. And it had been me and another girl that had gone to network and the other girl had gotten it and I went into True Blood. And that pilot didn't end up going, which I was so devastated I didn't get. It worked, all worked out the way. And when I'm going, you were like, hmm. I was like, well, you didn't have me. Yeah. No, the girl that got it, she was great.

I thought the script was amazing. I don't know how these decisions get me, but they do. It didn't end up going. And I was really sad. And then I was on True Blood, and then I got a call, my agent got a call from Shonda saying that she's auditioning a new intern class and she'd love for you to come. And it's on Friday. And I was like, well, I can.

I'm at Comic-Con. So I thought I missed the opportunity. Then I heard over the weekend they hadn't found one of the girls. Wow. Could I come on the Monday? So I came, auditioned for Shonda. By Friday, I was on set.

Shush. Yeah, real fast. So when you intern, when you audition for the intern, do you know that it's, you know that it's not just like a one episode thing? You already know it's kind of. I had a, I mean, sometimes it is, but for me specifically,

I had a recurring contract with a pickup at the end that could make me a series regular. But it felt like, kind of almost felt like one long season of auditioning because on our show, you know, people go in and out all the time. So I, that first season, I was nervous. I wanted to stay. You wanted to stay. Yeah, I wanted to do a good job and stay. Because so basically you do this for a year and then you find out at the end if they like what, you've moved to different medical school or something. Or you blow up in some sort of explosion. Wow. Yeah. That is so nerve-rocking. I know, yeah. But you probably had a good feeling, no? Or did you really not know until? I didn't.

I didn't know because I feel like, no, I didn't know because I don't even think it's personal a lot of times. It's like, well, what makes the better story? Is you exploding the better story? Maybe it is. Right. So you're going to explode. What's fun for you, I feel like, as opposed to people that are signing up for the show now, for instance, is you really got to be with also the OGs. I did.

Like everyone was still there. Everyone. Everyone. Eric Dane. Oh, no. Eric Dane died already? Eric Dane died in the episode that I, one of the episodes, this episode after I started and he wasn't in the episode I was in. So I didn't get to Ashley.

It was like that, that was very close. That was one of the hardest ones for me. Kyler. Kiler did die before I came. Him dying. What was his name? I forgot. McSteamy.

Him having, first of all, the problem with Gray's is that it can stay with you for a long time. as an anxious person, too. So do I remember that moment of McSemey seemingly getting better? Yeah. And then, then being like, that's what happens before you die. You know, you feel you all of a sudden look like you're recovering. Yes, I know. It's a really weird, real phenomenon.

What, fucking like 10 years ago probably or. And that's the, not that I'm like, thank God I haven't been there. But even in my anxious moments, I'm like, I'm dying. and that's why I feel better. You know, it's just like... Well, now that you've said that I'm in it, that's my... You've, like, given me material.

So the trauma, I mean, the trauma that that show... This is me promoting Grey's Anatomy. The trauma that that show can have, like... Yes. Plain crap. Like, how as an anxious person... No, by the way,

it is technically the worst acting job I could have because health anxiety is my thing, and I now know a thousand different ways to that. A thousand. thousands. I mean, any, I mean... Because it's real. Like, obviously what you're filming isn't real, but obviously the conditions are real. It's all based on real. We're not going to do a case that's not, that's so outlandish. It can never happen. So, wow, you know too much.

I know way too much. Does it help you at all in life? Like, with your kids getting sick, like anything? No. But what does help me is that I work with real doctors. So I'll, like, send them a picture of, like, a paper cut and be like, am I going to die? And they're like, wait, real doctors are on set all the time. All the time. Wow. Yeah. That's a cool job for them.

Yeah, it's really fun. And we love them. I mean, we work so closely with them. They're like, you know how to hold it and. Yeah, of course. Otherwise, we would never look remotely professional. So, but you're saying all these years and I'm sure you have so much knowledge that does help with stuff. You're like, no, I know that that's like that fever is not.

I know some stuff like, when. I've had like a stomachache. I'm like, is it how many fingers is it from the belly? But it's not appendicitis. Like, I know where organs are and stuff. Yes. Yes. Or like just little things like that or like, you know, bringing down a fever. Like if it gets to this point, this point, you know, I know, I mean, very minor. Very minor. But I also do, I mean, I text so many pictures and all sorts of. Oh, yeah. Wait, so. I'm like, what do you think of this mole? You know, like, all that. You're like, God, calm down. Wait, first of all, is those doctors, is that their only job? Like, they're not, wow. Yeah, because they have to be with us all the time. Wow, that's crazy.

Yeah. So you shoot how many, you said nine months a year. Nine months a year. How many days a week? All them? Not all of them. I mean, that's the most amazing thing about having an ensemble show is that, like, there's so many of us. We're not going to shoot every day. Right. Yes. And you've been 12, 12 years. I'm in my third. 13th season. That's crazy. Yes. And what do, like, what do you say to fans that are like, how much longer do we got? Like, how, how, what do we, like, because sometimes you guys make us feel like it's ending and

then it does, you know what I mean? Like, you make it feel like, no, this is the last season. And then they're like, surprise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We like to do a little surprise? Are you guys, do you guys get nervous as a cast? Like, what are your feelings? I think that we are super lucky.

and that I think what happened was here's what I think I got on the show the show was doing great I mean it was season nine and then I want to say around like 11

it hit streaming and the show just exploded it was like you know I thought maybe when I joined the show I was like okay it's a ninth season show like this shows don't go on longer

I'll have a couple years on here and then it hit streaming and now it's like kids in high school I mean, like, college, it's like, generationally, people are obsessed now. And so I think as long as we have the streaming, which is just a, it's just the way it happens to some shows, like suits. Remember how it like suddenly hit streaming and it was like everyone's obsessed? As long as that continues, I think that we will continue to be making the show.

Wow. That's amazing to hear. Yeah, the fandom's so loyal. Yeah. That, I mean, Jessica and I out in New York City. I mean, we just meet so many people that, I mean, we're always meeting people that love the show. Yes. So it's like these are people still watching, you know, and so this is why we're on the air still. We'll be right back after the break.

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favorite, they're original. I know you're going to be as obsessed as I am with purely Elizabeth. Visit purelyelie.com. Use code not skinny at checkout for 20% off your first purchase. That's purely P-U-R-E-L-Y-E-L-Y-E-L-A-L-A-L-A-L-A-L-A-L-A-L-A-L-E-B-E-E-L-A-L-E-E-L-A-L-E-E-L-E-E-L-E-E-L-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-E-R-E-E-E-R-E. I remember. I remember that scene really clearly, because they wouldn't let me read it. Smart. Smart, though. Because then it was real. And they set up a camera that went 360 around me like this. And they're like, okay, and open the note. Well, I mean, to be honest, when I opened the note, I was so, it was devastating. And they had someone, it was written out for real, but then they had someone off camera reading it to me too. And then I saw

like the divorce papers that had been added in and it was so shocking. So, So what you see in that episode is my real... Wait, you didn't even know the divorce papers were added? I did not know. So we usually at a table read, we get the script and everything's in there. Yeah. So that chunk of the script and the table read was, were blank pages. They omitted what was going to be in it.

Damn. Do they do that stuff a lot? No. Wow. And I think they even did it to Ellen and Chandra too. You have to ask them if you had them on the show. But for me, I did not know. So when I saw the divorce papers, too, it was, like, very overwhelming.

It was a tough episode, yeah. It was a tough episode. But so how did you feel about that kind of coming to an end? Is everyone, what did they call it? Joe Lex. Right. Honestly, I feel like one thing I really liked about the storyline was I felt like a lot of times on TV shows, you see a couple break up. And then they're able to have that moment of like, fuck you.

Like, you did all this, like, a screaming match or like, you know, or goodbye. Yeah. But in real life, people don't always get that opportunity. Well, fans were mad. Fans are very mad. But in relationships, you can have a breakup and not get what you need from the other person. Right. And or not even have that moment to be like, you know what?

Fuck you. Yeah. She did, whatever. So I liked that we got to tell this story of a girl that had been through a big breakup, a divorce. And she was going to one hunt. She didn't get that moment, and she was going to have to find it within herself to move on. Yeah. And so I liked that.

And then I feel like she's sort of coming to her own. Yeah. You know, she had some single days and Skylar Aston fun dating days. Well, it's interesting because a lot of times actors, like on shows that are long running like this, decide to leave like Justin did. Yes. Because they're like, I want to do something else. Yes. And I can understand someone.

I'm assuming that's super scary. Yeah, I think, and I, yes, I mean, I think at some point people do feel like it's time for me to get out there, like Jesse, you know, it was time for him. He felt like it was time for him and he went into the play here in New York, then only murders. And I think that there's probably a lot of times organically a feeling that like, okay, I told all the story that I think that I want to with this character. For me, I feel like there's so much more to tell. So as long as I'll have me, I'll stay.

Good. And your other co-worker just left, too, and he wrote him such a sweet note on Instagram. Jake Borrelli. Jake Borrelli. I know. That one's tough. That's hard. But in the most recent episode, she made him her godfather to her babies.

Yeah. So hopefully he'll come back. Oh, okay. Yeah. Now you can probably tell things by the way the script and the stuff. You're like, okay, he's a godfather. The doors open. The door's open.

Yeah, the door's open. So in all these years, what was one of the hardest scenes to shoot for you? Was it that letter? No, it's actually the scenes with my mom. There was an episode called Silent All These Years. I don't know if you remember this episode. It was about sexual assault. Yes.

And that whole episode was difficult to film. People really appreciated that, too, like just kind of talking about it. Well, it had a really, it had a very real world impact. in that the, we had the number, the helpline or the line for call for rain at the end of the episode. And the numbers jumped like by, they just got a flood of calls after the episode. So I think that that felt really amazing. Yeah. That it made an impact like that. Yeah. Quick jump to now. We spoke you and Jessica Kapsha have this podcast together. Call it what it is. Yes. It's not a Grey's Anatomy rewatch podcast. It's not. That would be crazy. I mean, the fans would love it, but that would be a lot of

episodes to rewatch. You know what? We are discussing right now about sprinkling it in a little bit. Okay. Because I think the fans would really love it. They was. I know. So we might, we might start a sprinkle. Okay. I mean, you're hearing it here first. I haven't even talked about it yet. Oh, my God. Exclusive. So what do you guys talk about now? Like, what's your vibe on the show? So right now, we try to talk about everything. It's really interesting because I feel like when you are an actress and you go out and you do interviews on you know good morning america or wherever it there's a lot of media training that sort of goes into like you come in you say your bit you're talking about your character you promote the show and then things about yourself you're sort of like a little bit more

protective over and tight-lipped about and you know this when we started the podcast we're like we got to shake off like our media training and be really real and really vulnerable and talk about a bunch shit. So we talk about all kinds of stuff. Yeah. And then we have guests on. And so we had like the Dildo Duchess on that talked us through sex toys and it was really fun. And then we have other actors on. And then the, we call it the call it crew. They write in with their problems or stories. And then we discuss them. We have people zoom in with us and talk to them. Oh, wow. So it feels very interactive. Like, and we're trying to make it feel like it's a community as opposed just me and Jessica talking all the time.

How did you, who thought to start a pot? Was it you? Her. Really? She approached me last Christmas. She called me and she said, I think that I want to do a podcast, but I want to do it with someone. Will you do it with me?

And I was like, yeah, done, sold. Wow. But she's never, does she come to L.A. a lot in person to do it? She does, because her family is also, she has family out there in Los Angeles. So she can come back and forth, but we do it in our homes always. lot. That's so, it's so great because you're also a social media sensation. You're a TikTok star. I'm unhinged. You love TikTok. Like you're into like, do you know all this stuff? Like are you, who's helping you? That's not, well. Your husband is down with some of the stuff. I mean, sometimes.

Yeah. He's like, oh, God, what are you doing? And I'm like, you're going to do it. You got to do it. I would love, after Gray's, I would love to do comedy. And I just thought, like, it's very hard as an actor to transition between drama and comedy because they see as a dramatic actress, right? And the same the other way, between, for when you start with comedy, it's hard to transition to drama. I don't know why casting. People can do all of it. But so I thought, I'm just going to use it as, like, my own little S&L account, basically. Wow.

So this was like. like a more than just, just fun. No, this is like strategic for me. Strategic. Yeah. Love that. And I think it's important to see that because I don't, I think that girls are supposed like, no, it's just, you know, no, it's totally, you know, like I just having fun.

Like, no, you put in effort. Like, sometimes you have to wear shit. Yes, because I, I want to promote that side of me that you don't see on the show. Well, I think Joe, though, does have like that. They've started to, yeah, they wrote a bit. Like, it's not like you were this, like, serious person with no, none of those vibes. She was pretty serious. And then Krista Vernoff came in and show ran for a few seasons.

And she wrote comedy right away for Jones. So there was like a transition. You can kind of see different showrunners. The tone of your character can change. Yeah. And so it changed. And then they gave me more comedy. So were you happy about that?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to play both. So everyone, check out. literally Camilla Ludington's reels. Are you a real for real though? Where are you on? Are you on TikTok or are you on Instagram Reels? Both. Both. I'm doing it all. But do you, who gets the ideas? You? I do the ideas. Oh. Yeah. So it is all you. You don't have any young Gen Z. No, but I have someone

help me put it together. Oh, okay. The editing part. Yeah, I don't want to edit it. Yeah. The editing is hard. And so I like I'll get, I'll give feedback like take a two seconds off. Yeah. It makes it not funny if you had, you know, so, but I come up with the ideas. And you're so good at the lip lip syncing. It's not easy. It's not. I know, but you're on it. And you make your cast do shit with you too. They love it. Come on, guys. You did a Vanderpump rolls one recently. Yeah. Do they all lost? They had no idea. They had no idea. Oh my God. They went along with it. They had no idea. They did. I was like, I love you guys. Please do this. And they came in there a game. And they were like, what is this? And I was showing them the beginning. They're like,

People watch this? I'm like, yes. Wait, so Vanderpump rules. Is it one of your top? Yes. Top, top, top. I mean, who could recreate those early seasons of everyone having sex with each other and shit? So what do you feel like they should do now?

Because obviously there's something going on. We don't know. Bravo hasn't even decided it's going to film again. Are they not filming now? No, babe. Oh, okay. I, okay, so I love Sheena. I've met Sheena.

Yeah? Yes, she's a big reason. I met her at the People's Choice Award. She was very sweet. However, don't hate me, Sheena. I don't want Sheena and Lala on the Valley. You want them to stay on Van der Wa? I want them to stay on Van der Pond.

Because I think this cast is really good on the Valley. I want them to stay on Venet Pomp. But I think that it's going to be controversial. I'm going to get a lot of shit for this. I think Ariana has to leave. Uh-huh. Wow. I know.

And everything else say the same. You know what? I'm going to agree. Are you? Yeah, and we're going to die. Yeah. Are you ready to die with me? Well, we said it.

Yeah, but not in a bad way. Okay, go. Here's why. I love her. I think she's amazing. I think it's very clear her career is headed elsewhere. And also that she doesn't want to be there. And she doesn't want to be there.

But she's like, but I don't love everybody. It's like her career is headed and she doesn't want to hate everybody at this point. Yeah, no, if it was clear that she wanted to be there, I would never say it. To me, it's clear that she's like, peace. Yeah, peace. Fuck this. Fuck this. And so I think that she should leave.

And I think she should do all the opportunities that she has coming to her. Continue hosting Love Island. It was like the biggest season. Biggest season. And I think that she probably will enjoy it more, maybe. But does she want to stay? I don't know. I don't know.

I feel like it's probably scary to let go of that thing. Yeah. That's a constant. But I think she, I would assume that she doesn't want to stay. And I agree with you. Yeah. And I've also heard from, it's interesting you said that because you, really do have an eye for this.

Yeah. When I talk to people that are, like, close to this Valley production, and I asked about Sheena and Lala joining, they said, listen, the cast of the Valley, surprisingly, is so strong on its own. Yeah. They did that season on their own. Yes. You know, with no, none of the, I mean, Jackson and Brittany were like the names.

Yes. Did you hear the reason about Jackson, Brittany? Okay, so Britney's dating somebody new? Well, no. And Jackson had a meltdown or something? No, it was funny was she was, like, talking shit about him. And then he went on a podcast, I think, and said, like, and then she calls me to, like, hook up and come over and drink wine. And then she says this to you guys, like, you're falling for it.

Like, blah, blah, blah. So they're hookup buddies? I really hope not. No. I'm so gross. Can I tell you something? Yes. And it's not good.

It's not good. But, um... You love Jax? I can love Jax. No! I, I, I, I, I, I, like, he's my favorite villain. Okay. No, I don't love him.

Like, he's a good person. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just, I realized watching the Valley that he's so terrible that I missed having, like, that villain. Yeah, you know what? I can appreciate that, actually, because whenever I used to watch the show and people hated certain characters, like, hated, I'm like, this is your entertainment, people. Yeah. Like, this is a character. Yeah. Enjoy this for entertainment. So I see that. And it's funny, said villain, because this other day I posted him in his terrible haircut and his, like, gelled whatever. And his eyebrows that. go up. Yeah. And somebody said to me, it was so right, because I was like, what is it? And they're like, he just looks like from the cartoon like a villain, just like the way a villain looks like with that hair. And I think he likes it. Yeah. He leans so into, he knows he's a villain. He

leans into it. There's something enjoyable about watching someone so diabolical. That's what we love about Vanderbilt. So we want it back. We want it back. I definitely want it back. Yeah. And if Ariana wants to stay, then I want her to stay. Yeah. But I feel like Love Island's calling her name. Just go to Love Island. Yeah, why not? Pull her in for a chat guy. Damn out. Yes. Camilla, thank you for coming on. Thank you so much. You're so cute. You're so adorable. Gray's Anatomy is on. Everybody go watch it. Everybody listen to your podcast. Call it like it is. Call it what it is. Call it what it is. Sorry. Don't worry about it. Do I say it again? No, I think it's funny. Keep it. I always fuck shut up. Call it what it is. Call it what it is. Thank you guys so much for listening to this

episode of Not Skinny, but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram. Instagram at not skinny, but not fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements

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