Not Skinny But Not Fat - Cazzie David Spirals About Turning 30

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

Cazzie David is here! We talk about her new book Delusions and the full-on existential spiral of turning 30. Cazzie opens up about anxiety, body dysmorphia, and what it actually feels like to hit a milestone age when you’re… not okay. We also get into growing up with Larry David as her dad, and the very weird reason she’s thinking about having a baby.This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episodeFor a limited time, save 40% on your first month at ritual.com/NOTSKINNYUse code NOTSKINNY for 20% off your first order at bloomnu.comAs a special offer for our listeners, good wipes is giving you your first pack for FREE! Buy any package in store, text them your receipt, and get reimbursed almost immediately. For more details, head to goodwipes.com/NOTSKINNYSecure 20% off your order and begin your intentional wellness journey today at piquelife.com/notskinny Go to quince.com/notskinny for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Get started today at stitchfix.com/NOTSKINNY and get 20% off your first order when you buy five or more items.Visit wedderspoon.com and use code NOTSKINNY20 at checkout for 20% off your first orderProduced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the not skinny but not fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hey, hey, hey, guys, happy Tuesday.

Welcome back to not skinny but not fat. I'm your host, Amanda. I'm recording this as I just saw the breaking news that, ABC is pulling Taylor Frankie Paul's season of The Bachelorette, which I figured was coming after earlier today, the footage of the 2023 domestic violence incident that started Mormon Wives, okay, because if you remember, season one of Mormon Wives started

with the body camp footage after this altercation, and now the footage is out. It's on TMZ. It is so fucking, bad. It is so fucking bad. And I have to tell you, like, when I first kind of posted about this, you know, after the second incident happened, which the news broke about a week ago, and the internet was raging that she was even hired as the bestorette. And a lot of people in my life, like people that I know, people from the industry, people, you know, were feeling kind of sad for

her that like this is kind of happening to her. And at the end of the day, I think my opinion on it is like I just never feel like we have all the facts, you know, and now that there's this video, it is very evident, obviously that she's the aggressor and the attacker in this video, but we also see him recording it. And we also see that this is being released on literally two days before the Bachelorette is supposed to air. And we also know that the altercation that happened this year happened in February yet it was released this week as she was doing like the promo for the Bachelorette. So it does seem like obviously this is not Hulu ABC dropping this. Okay. This is the last thing they would do. It's the last thing Taylor or her team would do. So it is definitely what Dakota would do.

So I think at the end of the day, the only thing that is evident is that this is the most toxic relationship we've probably ever seen on TV that we've probably ever seen rollout. And it's not even toxic, you know, fun anymore. It's not even toxic entertaining TV. This is toxic dangerous. This is toxic violent. This is toxic, you know, for the kids involved, for the family involved. And I think for me it's like, I just, my heart goes out and I feel so much sadness over it for the family, you know. So I really find it hard to like call judgment or be critical.

It feels sad. I feel sad for the family and I feel sad for her that this is how her life has turned out and this is what's happening and what's rolling out in front of the public eye. Like, that must not be healthy. It's so fucking unhealthy. And, like, I also feel like she's so overworked. And, like, you even saw, like, I, by the way, watched the premiere of The Bachelorette because I got the screener. And it was very, very good. However, we know from Mormon Wife Season 4 that she literally slept with Dakota the night before going to the Bachelorette.

Okay. And that is fucked, right? It's fucked for her. It's fucked for the season. It's fucked for the guys that are coming on to date her. It was just all bad, but I was sure that the season would be kick-ass. Like, I was sure of that. And now, obviously, we don't have the season.

Obviously, ABC did the right thing by pulling it. However, in the same breath, like, I don't think they ever, in the history of television, hired someone with a public, with a record before. So this was definitely a risk that they were taking. However, she is on one of the leading reality shows. And again, it started with this. Like, we have to remember the 2023 incident was what started the show, and people moved on from it.

And now that there's footage were kind of brought back there. So I just think it's a wild, sad, sad, sad situation that we are literally watching unfold in front of the world. So I just her, I hope her family, like, heals from this. But obviously, like, Hulu made the right decision by pulling the season. And let's see what happens next for the franchise, for the franchise of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Anyway, in a sharp turn to today's guest who has nothing to do with this kind of world. I mean, yeah, not with this kind of world, but with The Bachelorette.

She is, to me, one of the funniest people online, not only online, but like in life. And actually not even online. She's a brilliant writer, creative person. She has a very famous last name and actually the sense of humor of her most hilarious father. I love her writing, her point of view, and her demeanor. It cracks me up. Her new book Delusions was hysterical. Cazie David, Cazie David wrote this book, Delusions,

and she took us down a spiral that she was going down before her 30th birthday. And it is so utterly relatable, which I would assume, based on how much I know her, that she would hate that word relatable. But it was so good. I highly, highly recommend reading it or listening to it because she reads it. And I am obsessed. You know, I love audiobooks. But I loved hearing her voice read her thoughts.

It just makes perfect sense in your brain. And it was just fantastic. So Cassie David is on the show today. And I hope you enjoy our conversation. I don't think we should. No? No. We're talking about it.

It's like, oh, my. Don't worry. The whole thing is going to be about it. It's enough already. don't you think Amanda to be like promotional I would probably be the same as you but I understand the teams

are changing you know but I love the cover thank you and it made sense after I was like oh the cake like it took me 20 minutes after I finished it did you see the sticker did you read the sticker no one's been reading the sticker

no yeah because like the whole thing's meant to be a joke you know where was the sticker It's on the packaging, like on the box, the cake box. It's just a quote from the book. It's about how like everything that we market today is like edible. And so it's like ironic. That's why the book is a cake.

I love that the book. Are people obsessed with things that are edible? Are people obsessed with things that are edible? Yeah, because it's like, I mean, I guess the idea is that in the past, like they believed like sex cells. Oh, uh-huh. Today it's like anything that's erotic or edible. sells. Yeah, but the edible thing usually like resembles cum.

Oh. If you've noticed, like all of Haley Bieber's marketing things are like they look like cum. I've never thought about it that way. Yeah. The glazing milk is literally, the photo of it is just her covered in cum. Oh, my God. Right?

I think that's true. Did we start? You got all that Haley dripping and cum stuff, right? important. Wow. Don't be too hard on me. Don't give me the hard-hitting questions, right? I don't do hard-hitting questions.

Be easy on me. I'm scared. Are you really? Are you joking? No, no, I'm really scared. Babe, what are you talking about? I don't have physical anxiety symptoms, though. In life or right now?

No, like, it doesn't, it's on external my anxiety. Like, I think I sound chill because of my voice. Right, but you're anxious. But are you anxious right now? Internally, I'm freaking out. No. You seem so chill. You know I have anxiety, right?

I assume everyone does. Yeah, but I have like the real kind, not the like influencer kind. I am glad you're chill though because sometimes when I'm with someone who's like really bubbly, my personality just goes dead. And I'm the most boring person ever because I have to make up for their personality. We have to like be even, you know? Yeah. Otherwise the energy in the room is just like it's overwhelming.

So your friends aren't like bubbly. people. No, some of them are. It's just like I have to morph then into a different personality. If they're too bubbly, I go dead. Like you are just quiet. And if they're chill, I have more of a personality. Oh, okay. So if I'm a killer now, this is good for you. You're giving me a really even keeled chillness. Okay. That makes me feel like I can be yourself. Not too boring. Yourself. And maybe myself. And maybe yourself. And maybe yourself. We'll see. Cassie David is here.

I'm so excited because I feel like we've been supposed to do this for a while. Yeah. But I do feel, and I know from your book, that I don't know how you feel about this,

but I do feel like things end up happening at their best timing. You're not going to agree with this. In life? In life. Yeah. I mean, maybe. Like, I feel like this was the best time

for us to do this. Yeah, no, I agree. Than ever. Well, any time it hasn't happened is usually for the best. Okay. But I would just say that because, like, I, if I did an interview with you in the past, I would hate it by now.

And so now I'm feeling better about this existing, but I'll hate it in a couple years. Yeah. And then we'll have to do it over. But we're happy it's happening now. Yeah, exactly. So I did, I listened. Does that, are you okay with it that I listened to? I would have preferred you read it.

Really? But that's just because when I was in that booth recording it, I was like, this is 300. way, babe, I loved your, I've been on an audiobook role. Wow. So I, and I would get annoyed with like narrators, like narrators for like novels. You like when the author's reading it. Right. And then with you, I feel like it was so fun because you would be like, oh my God. You know, you would just like be you. You know, so you know how you would say something. So I could picture you doing the thing that you were saying because it was you. Right. So don't hate that. I audiobooked it. I also had two days to do it, Cassie. I really appreciate it. And I loved

it. It brought me back because I think you wrote in the book that like me talk pretty, but that was my kind of book like growing up. Yeah. You know what I mean? So this was totally bringing me back since I've been on the thriller run like I told you. You read a lot of fiction. Lately. Okay. Listen. And when you're listening to the audiobook, what are you doing? Like are you going about your life or you're just kind of? I'm not like on my phone, which is nice. Yeah. Because you talk a lot about the phone. The phone.

I'm not on my phone, but I could be cleaning my room. I could be putting my baby to sleep. Awesome time to listen. Yeah. I'm like, take however you need. Take however long you need. I really recommend going in the laser mask. Yes.

Because there's not much you can do in there. The red light therapy. Yeah. I just started it, by the way. You're so ahead of me in like skincare. It's fucking crazy. I'm really mentally ill. So it's not really a good thing.

Well, you guys, in this book, you're spiraling about your 30th birthday and you take us along for this crazy-ass spiral. Is that how you would describe it? Yeah, I do think it's kind of essays in the form of existential. It's like one long existential crisis. Right. Yeah. And were you really feeling that intensely about this birthday? Yeah, I, you know, there's so many tropes about turning 30.

Like, there's so many cliches about it. and I'm really not one to kind of buy into a cliche. And yet, like, I still was, like, fully jump scared by this birthday. And just the pressures that I felt just, I was like, oh, my God. Like, you, I have to get my entire life together in a year. Like, everything I've been putting off since college graduation, you know, I have to do it now. Otherwise, you know, your life might not go as you planned. Right.

And I feel like a lot of my friends, everyone kind of was experiencing a different type of this pressure. Like whether it was they needed to freeze their eggs or find a partner, you know, switch careers or like they were following their dream for a really long time. And they were like, this is just actually not happening. And I need to start being realistic. So what was the scariest thing about turning 30 for you? Yeah. I think it was just the realization that, oh, like I'm like it's not inappropriate. for me to have a child now.

Right, the lore like Gilmore think cracked me out. Your Google searches, I love how in this book, like, you would tell the reader, like, every Google search you did because, like, it's so embarrassing, but it's so, like, I literally, like, thinking about when to have a second kin, I'd be like, when did Courtney Kardashian have Mason? You know what I mean?

Like, truly based my, and I'm like a 31, that's fine, you know? Every time you watch a movie, I'm like looking up the actor's age when she played that role. Right. To see if there's still time. Yeah. You know? For what? For me to like be a movie star?

Like, no, time's over. It's not happening. So you, in this book, you Googled how old Lorelei and how old Rory was. How old and Lorelei was 32? Lurly was 32. So you felt like you were getting closer to her. Well, at first I was like, oh, you know, that's okay because she's a young mom, you know? But she's only a young mom because she has a teen.

kid. And it's like I, even if I'm 32, which I basically am now, right. I wouldn't be a young mom. I would just be a regular mom. Right. I know. That was kind of upsetting. And just the fact that if I did date like a young man right now, it would be like, it's almost like he could tell his friends like I'm with a I'm with an older woman. We couldn't. Wait, so it's almost I'm almost you're almost there. But 31, now you're 31. Now you're 31. Not 32. Don't jump ahead in my love. Sorry, I have a few months left. How's that feeling? Like, are you, did you, are you like I overreacted about the 30 thing? It's fine in this era, decade.

Yeah, I feel like all of the things I was told about being 30, which started to feel like, you know, fake at one point. Like, everyone would just tell you like, it's so much better. Yeah. You know, you're going to love it. Yeah. And be like, that's weird. Like, do you have to say that?

You know, that you, your ego will have quieted it and you will no longer. care about what people think and you might not be so obsessed with how you look or all of these things or you'll be confident. It's like maybe a maybe a little bit better, you know? I think I was thinking like at the stroke of midnight, I would become a different person. Right, right, right. And I obviously like when I turned 30, I happened to be like scrolling on Instagram when I was like, it didn't happen. I'm still the same. Well, I think what the what I connect to about the 30s, I will say, like not like turning 30, but the 30s is like you know yourself better kind of vibes. Like you're making decisions.

Like maybe like 32 year old Cassie wouldn't throw the birthday party because she'd be like, I know myself and I don't like birthday parties. So why would I do a birthday party? You know, like I feel like it's that knowing yourself. You know what I mean? My problem since I was born is that I know myself too well. And therefore I don't allow myself to do anything. Like I'm in like the.

prison of my own knowing, you know? Yeah. Well, I know now because I fucking listen to the book and you made me anxious. But that's part of what it was is that like to be, to realize I was really in charge of my own fate when you like come up against all these like hard choices when you start turning this age. Yeah. And like I know how stupid I am. So to know that I'm in charge of my own fate was the thing that really freaked me out. But so now that you're in it, are you like, are you feeling the 30s? Are you going to be giving advice? somebody like when you turn 30. Well, it's funny because my sister's 30th birthday was yesterday.

Oh. She's not happy about my publishing date. No, she's not? No. So she posted for you this morning. She did. That was really bad. That was, yeah.

All caps. My mom asked me to make a toast at her birthday. And I was like, don't you think I have enough going on? It's like, I can't memorize a toast. And then obviously I should have just given the toast. Wait, didn't you show up to her birthday? I saw in your story. Yeah.

But didn't you make it about your book? Yeah. Well, I needed everyone at the birthday party to buy the book. Just like pre-order it. Yeah. Yeah. I was shaking down all the tape. Was she upset?

She had a really good sense of humor about it. Oh, she did? Yeah. You write about her in the book, too, and you sound super opposite, right? Yeah. Like, you're not same days. No. You're more your dad.

She's more your mom. Yeah. I mean, I think that we have qualities of both our parents, but like all. ultimately we're polar opposites in terms of like how we see the world. But she's just as anxious and neurotic, but just about really different things. Are you like best friends? No. I think that's been actually a point of contention in our relationship where she's been like,

why can't we be best friends? Yeah. And it's just like, like we're just not. Like we just can't be best friends. Really? No, I'm just, I think, such a contrarian that like when someone wants something so badly from me, I can't give it to them. Stop.

So I keep telling her, like, you should just, like, start hating me and not wanting to be my friend and then I'll want to be your best friend. Wait, you're older. Yeah. You're older, but, like, only, what's the age difference between years? Two years. She loves when people think she's older, though, and they all do. Why would she love that?

Because it's not about, like, what she looks like. She just comes off a lot more evolved than I do. Uh-huh. You know, like, she's really good at talking to adults. I don't know why I said adults. Like people are... You're a child. You're a baby.

So people tend to think she's older, yeah. She's a little bit more, you know, reserved. And she has really good manners. And I'm kind of a disaster. And is she not in this world at all? She is... She did journalism for a while. And now she's doing oral history stuff.

So she's, is she... Does she make fun of you that you're like in the entertainment world? Yeah. Yeah? Mm-hmm. She's not into it. No. That's cool, though.

Yeah, I feel like there should only be one person from each family that's allowed to enter the entertainment industry. Like if she was into it also, you would be like... I think I wouldn't be able to do it. You would like take about it. Because it's too embarrassing. Like we can't have two, two of us can't both be trying to do the same thing. I would really have to pivot. At the end when you end up having your birthday party, I was cracking up.

It's so many times in this book I was. But like, I know you're going to hate this word, but like you are relatable. you know like there's so many things that are like that would so be me like sorry you had to come you can leave you know like it's just like I I because I told you when you walked in like the book made me anxious because I was just feeling all those feelings like how I would feel you know with the room half empty was it really half empty like the birthday party yeah no there wasn't enough people there to make it feel normal was it at a place yeah it was that like you rented out we rented out place. Like, can you think of anything more embarrassing? Like, me renting out of place? Like,

what do you think they made you do it? Your friends made you throw a party for your 30th. And on the day, you have a mental, like, this is where it really came to a head. Yeah. The mental breakdown. Well, it just occurred to me that, like, I'm not someone, I'm not normal. And so I can't have a party. But it was just so silly because it's the idea that, you know, you're watching this, basically all of the essays are over the course of this year. And there's clearly no growth that happens throughout the entire year. Right. Because I'm trying really hard to become more mature.

Yeah. But it's not happening. And so the birthday at the end is really in a culmination of like all of these things because I am not mature enough to have a party because I'm like throwing a fit. I'm trying to get an Instagram photo to like make my ex jealous. like all of these things that are really childish. I'm like crying because the photo is so ugly. That just really shows you like no growth has occurred.

I know. Wait, so that's how. Okay, now I'm getting why it's a joke. Because the full title of the book is delusions of grandeur of romance of progress. Like what progress we're saying? It's a delusion of the progress. There's no progress. We'll be right back after the break.

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Like, did you have a partner already? I did. That's the thing. Like, I feel like because I was with my husband since I was like 22. And when did you get married? 27. I'm one of the guy. Which, like, I feel like doesn't represent who I am, you know?

You're like cooler. You're cooler than having been married at 20. So much cooler than getting married at 27. He is just like old fashion and like didn't. I was like, okay. But yeah, doesn't represent me. But also made it so like my experience, like I didn't have that. experience, you know, but I do remember taking a photo of me at the one hotel Miami, like,

floating on my back, being like, last day of 29, like, such a big deal. But and then like at 30 being like, how does it feel you ask? Feels like. But I do like the 30s, I will say. Yeah. I do like the 30s. And I think it is your right. It's like this club of like 30s or better than 20s because you did so much dumb shit in

your 20s. Did you do dumb shit in your 20s? really dumb shit in high school and then the first year of college and after that I really got my shit together. Yeah, you sound like two together now. Well, mentally, no. I'm not like doing drugs. No, not doing drugs. You're not drinking. What you say in the book? I barely drink. Yeah. And you're not eating dinner out, barely, which is where I was going to tell you we're going to have a problem with our friendship. Like, what are we going to do? We, you can't, you don't put to dinner. I can cook for you. You can cook the oatmeal. Is that boring for you to come over?

For a home-cooked meal. Is that what do you do with your friends? Yeah. I have to lure them over to my house. Really? Sometimes I make up something that's going on. So they are more enticed. Like you'll throw like a...

I'll be like, oh my God, someone just got here. I can't tell you who it is, but you're going to freak out. And you need to come over right now. And then you'll cook like a what, like grilled chicken? No, I don't cook chicken because I'm too scared. Oh, okay. It's going to get everywhere. Okay. Chicken is going to get it everywhere.

Like you can't touch the chicken and then you can't touch the sink and then that's just... Okay. So how do you get the protein? Is it like tofu? Oh, no. I don't really eat that much tofu. So I don't really like to discuss what you? You don't like to discuss what you eat? No, I eat regular stuff. Like what? Oh my God. Is it weird stuff? Is it like sardine? No, it's going to be... I do really like sardine.

Of course you would like sardines. But like sardine algorithms, all sardines now. It's like, how did I get on this sardine algorithm? Are you seeing this? No. No. Really? No. This is what sucks about the phone.

And I kind of want to have a talk with Instagram about it. Because we're all in pain from our algorithm, right? But we should just all have the same one so we can at least talk to each other about it. Like, we are all living in completely different universe just with our algorithm. It's true. Wait, but if you're back to the sardines, because I thought you weren't allowed to eat out of tin cans. So the tins I am concerned. about the circuits. I think I have to go fish them myself. Wait, babe, you are my mom, by the way.

Really? My mom would love you. For so, I'm going to give her the book to read because she's going to die over the, because you talk a lot about like the health and wellness and implementing all that into your life, which like, by the way, that's, it's a positive thing. Well, I just think the advice economy has become so insane and it really has become this disguise for the attention economy because everyone is just making content, like, telling you how to live your life. Yeah. And it's like, this isn't for me, you know? Like, you're not telling me to do this and this.

Like, that's not for me. That's for you to make a video about. Right. And to get engagement. And it's like, oh my God, if I do everything that I see online in one day, like, I would, I would do nothing else. But you do. Just in terms of, like, what parts of the body I'm supposed to touch.

But, for lymphatic. But you did learn so much for mom. line, no? Yeah, but like, should you know this? No, the amount of knowledge you have about, like, the toxins is too much. That made me really anxious. Like, fine, I don't have Teflon. Okay.

I got rid of the Teflon. But I didn't know about tinfoil. Yeah, tinfoil's not good. Everything's not good. But then in two years, we're going to find out that the thing you replace the tinfoil with is also. Right. So it's just like, it's never going to be okay.

But you made this a very big part of your life. Like, keep it. keeping up with the health. I'm just very impressionable and very scared. And what's crazy is that all of these, like, health people have turned out to be, like, such fucking quacks and, like, are in the Epstein files are, like, horrible. So it's, like, great, you know. You went through stages of, like, somebody told you, you're porous.

Yeah. You're not. Thank you. I've been working really hard, actually. On minimizing the pores? I can't believe somebody said that to you. You made me look at mine, but it's so. true. As I was listening to the book,

I was literally this week, everyone's going to hate my husband, but he deserves it. We were like in the car and you know the car has the best lighting. He was like, oh, you have like lines here. And I go, I do. And I like pull down the thing and I'm like and then I see like no legit. I do. And it was what, first of all, I was prementral. So like, God help him.

Like what he went through because of that little like, oh, like. Oh, I was fucking raging. I cried. Not that day, but after when I realized what it had done to me, that I was like looking it up, that I was like looking what you can do, that I was like freaking out. And then when I cried,

I was like, do you know what happened to me because of that comment? Well, that's what's crazy is that it becomes actually so magnified. It's like not really a thing, right? But you hyper focus on it. That's what you were talking about. Yeah.

And then you, just obsessively think about it and see it for however long. And nobody else cares. No. And you went through it. What was it? The pores. I've had a life.

By the way, that essay could have, I could still be writing that essay. The whole book could have been that one essay. Because it's just about what you're paying attention to. What you're paying attention to until you focus on something else. But it's weird. It's like, why? If one of your lines was like, how was I walking around with these eyebags that were floating away. I don't know how you said it, but you were like, I'm just, oh, no, I'm just a body attached.

My body attached like two hammocks underneath where my eyeballs lay. But it's like crazy how these things are things you, you're right, you go, you're like, how did I go around living my life like this? And then the one day you notice it and it's like all you can notice. But it's kind of like, if like you didn't know somebody and now you know them, you're going to see them everywhere. It's the same vibe. I personally have face dysmorphia. Obviously, a lot of people have body dysmorphia. I met someone the other night who was like, I have hair dysmorphia.

And I was like, what is that? And they were like, I don't know how my hair looks good. Like, I don't know in what way. And I think it looks good when it looks horrible. And when it looks like good, I freak out. And I'm just like obsessed with my hair. And I'm like, that would be a prison. Like you got her.

You understood her. Yeah, I was like, I was like, I'm so sorry. That sounds horrible. But, I mean, listen, we all do it. But with the face dysmorphia, I feel like I know this book, it's so funny and it's so you, but you really like talked about something I feel like nobody talks about, which is like we hear about body dysmorphia and we don't really hear about face dysmorphia. Face dysmorphia.

Or like it's part of our body. So I guess it's body. Well, I think it's like it's, it happens in the same form. Yeah. So like any of the thoughts you have about whatever. is, whether it's on your face or on your body or like what you look like. It's just what you look like, right? And it's obsessing about something that's like, doesn't matter. And that totally takes over. And it really is like an illness because it goes so far and takes over your life.

If you can't think about anything else besides this one. Right. It's just like, you know, you've gone too far. I think we're all kind of thinking the same thing. Yeah. Like we're all being the therapist, you know, the parents. The MDMA. Yeah. That's really funny. So I really was in like a place where, because you have to make these hard choices at this age, I felt like frozen. I had this choice paralysis where you have like these two things. You don't know what you were doing.

I was like in a relationship. I didn't know if I wanted to like be single, do this. Like I didn't know what I wanted to do. And like the looming pressure of this decade like really made me feel like I had to make a choice. Because you don't like maybe you didn't like know immediately. you know, with all this, like, the when you know, you know stuff. Oh, the one you know you know. It's not really got in my head.

It's like, oh, well, I don't know. Right. You know, even though Socrates said the only thing I know is that I know nothing. Yeah. But apparently, you know, if Socrates doesn't know, like, why do you think you know? Because I think when people say when you know, you know, they're really young. Yeah, and stupid. Yeah, because I was 27, you know, like, as you get older, you know more.

Right. And you know that you know. You know that it's a hard to make a decision. You know that you don't know. Yeah. Well, I was recommended to do this MDMA journey with my therapist. Yeah. And she was like, it helps people make choices.

It helps you, like, come into your, like, spirituality and, like, who you are at your core. And I was like, okay. That didn't scare you? Well, I had done cocaine once. And I told you it's the same. And I didn't feel anything. And I kind of felt like MDMA. it's also a powder.

It's an upper. I was like, it's going to be the same. And if a therapist is giving it to me, it can't be that crazy. Yeah. You know, if anything, I thought I would have to, like, fake having some kind of grand insight. Right.

To not make her feel bad. So you have to stay scheduled. So she wants to prep me. She's like, you know, some people, they want to hold my hand. They want to talk a lot. They don't want to talk at all. Like, everyone's different. And I was like, well, I'm not going to hold your hand.

By the way, in my mind it's like not the apocalypse itself would I be holding my therapist. We don't have that kind of relationship. I'm not really a hand holder. Anyways, we did it. And I like tripped out. In her office, in like this one room.

We did that at my house. Oh, your house. Okay, thank God. She came over and she was like getting everything. She lit a candle. And I was like, this is not a big deal. Like, I'm going to have to fake being on drugs. That's going to be the worst part of this. You know.

And then I took it and I just tripped so hard. No. And I ended up, this is not a joke, in her lap, in her lap like this, holding both hands, like clutching. She was like, I have to go to the bathroom. I was like, no, you're not allowed to go to the bathroom. No, no, no, no. You can't leave? And she'd be like, can I just take this?

No, like both hands the whole time. And I, by the way, have had a hard time looking at her since after because I'm so embarrassed by my behavior. Did you come to this? She was like, maybe we did a little too much. No, sensitive fewer. It did really help me. Really? But it was so...

Wait, what do you mean? It really helped you? You could just really, like, if you really asked yourself a question, you could kind of see the past and it would give you a certain feeling that you needed in order to, like, have an answer. So did she, like, when you weren't in her lab clutching her hands, was she, like, guiding you to think about this question? Yeah, she was helping me. where the question was like whether you want to like end the relationship or or keep it going. It was like, yeah, it was like about the, my true fear of being in my 30s and like what I want to do with this long term relationship or in all of these different things.

And I just really, it was just crazy. Did you tell your parents? I can't recommend it because it really was such a big deal. I thought it was not going to be a big deal. Yeah. It's a big deal. Yeah. Also, people I told that I was doing it to, they were like, that's kind of a big deal.

Are you sure? I was like, it's not a big deal. Like, I've done cocaine once. Sorry, Mom. I can't believe you. When I think of MDMA, which I haven't done, I picture the John Ham thing from the club. Well, that's if you're in the club. Right.

If you're alone with your therapist. Terrifying. I imagine it's a little different. Right. But I just afterwards, like five days of me just pacing around. No, first of all, the aftermath of anxiety would scare me. Yeah, you're so present. So if you've never been in your body, like I've never been in my body before, ever, 30 years, never once in my body.

I was dropped in. And she said that's why I had a really bad reaction because I was dropped in my body. So when you were dropped in for days, what did that feel like? Like anything's interesting. Like I could have like looked at this microphone for like 10 minutes. You know those girls in movies that, like, touch everything? No. Like that?

You don't know? Oh, my God. That's so something you would know. They're like this. Like, you know when like... Oh, yeah, I know exactly what I'm like. Like, yeah. They touch it.

They walk into a room. They like, they touch it. Yeah, I know what you're saying. You were touching everything. Yeah. Kind of fit, like, okay. I know because it felt good just because like... Were you in your head?

You were in your body? Were you in your head? Were you like, I'm freaking out. Am I okay? Am I selling drugs? You can't even go on your phone because it's so... For the first. time you understand how over-stimulating it is. It's like too much. And then after five days,

I could go on my phone again and I just, I locked into that. And I was like, forget that stuff. And I'm just back to how I was before. So you won't be doing it again. I think it's going to be kind of like writing the second book that I will have to forget how bad it was. Yeah. We'll be right back after the break. I become all about quality over quantity nowadays with everything. Just like get rid of everything. Leave me just the good stuff in life, but mostly in clothes in my wardrobe.

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Save 25% off your first month at ritual.com slash not skinny. That's ritual.com slash not skinny. not skinny for 25% off your first month. And we're back. Yeah, so writing another book for you, even though the first one, I mean, it did so well. It was a bestseller in like number one or two or something. You're like, I don't even know. Did you think you wouldn't write another book after the first book?

I had no. I was like, there's no way I'll ever do this again. So what, tell me how this. Well, first of all, if you are writing a memoir, or humor essays. When people don't like it, it's not that they don't even like your book or they don't like your writing.

They're like, they don't like you. They're like, I actually don't like this personality. And so when people don't like it, you're getting that, you know, on such a larger scale, it feels so bad. Yeah. So to write memoir again, when you know that if people don't like it,

it's that they don't like your personality. It's so much worse than writing fiction, I think. And you're one of those people that takes like the negative comments way more than the, you'll see like positive, positive, positive. One negative thing will get to you.

Yeah. Are you more scared about this one than the first one? I think I'm less naive now and so I know how much can go wrong. I know how bad it can get. Whereas the first one I was so, I was

pretty young. I didn't know what I was doing. So what made you do at that? Again. I forgot. You forgot and you felt some like, you started writing during this year of almost turning 30, like we're just writing. I started writing and they all kind of fit into this one theme

and I found this kind of juxtaposition between like the severity of these decisions that people at this age need to make and kind of the lack of wisdom to make them very funny. and like just ripe for comedy. And so I was like there's a whole world of stuff I could. No, it's literally so good. I was also thinking like I feel like everything,

there were so many different themes that like hit so hard about like, there was something about like when we get older than we get the wiseness and get wiser, but we don't have like the youngness anymore. It's like which would you rather? Yeah. For me, wiseness has never felt good.

Like knowing more. how unwise I was. First of all, you calling yourself stupid all the time is so annoying because you're so not stupid and you're so smart and you write so beautifully. You know what I mean? Thank you.

Trying to take compliments now that I'm 30. I really appreciate that. Because you're except. Because like stupid is not one of the things. I guess it depends who you're around. Okay. I think when I'm around, around stupid people, yeah, I am, I'm thinking, yeah, I am kind of smart.

Yeah. You know? But when I'm around smart people, I'm like, holy shit, I'm dumb as hell. But are you around smart people a lot? Someone asked me to interview the other day. They go, how do you feel, you know, about the literary community in L.A.? And I was like, I don't even know what that means. Like, can you rephrase that?

Like, what is that? Is that people who read together? Like, I've never been. I don't think that's what she met. They never invited me. Yeah. But the thing is, you can answer and be funny. I can try.

You can try. Yeah. Speaking of being funny, like, how good does it feel to make your dad laugh? Oh, my God. It's the best thing in the world. Yeah. But it's better to make my mom laugh. Really?

Yeah, because she has the best laugh. You can really hear her, like, throughout the entire crowd, even if everyone's laughing, you can hear her laughing. Oh. You may have noticed that she hasn't laughed once since we've been here. Wait, your mom's here? Yeah. What?

I didn't meet her. Hi. Oh, so you had to say, oh. No, we would, a laugh track would be nice. Do you feel like people sometimes don't get yourself a sense of humor? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all the time. It's 50-50.

But I know instantly if someone's going to understand or not. Really? Yeah. A complete stranger. Like, I know if I can joke with them or not. I don't think. I thought, I think my mom at least felt like I was a very disturbed kid. And then when I started to actually write and make it funny when I was old enough to do that,

she maybe had a sense of relief like, oh, thank God. She's not just like this freak. Different freak. And then, yeah, then I realized I could actually make this, you know, wretched personality useful. I was just so miserable. I was a kid. Like, I was really, really, I was miserable, yeah.

I did not want to be alive. Truly. Yeah, I was really upset to be alive. Like at school were you, did you have friends? I had friends, but I was miserable. You were miserable. Yeah. My God, my poor BB.

Yeah. Thank you for your pity. See why you're smart because I was too dumb to be miserable. But that's what I mean. That's what you want. No, of course. You're like ignorance as bliss is a real thing you should strive for, you know? No, I feel.

like there was this witch that like cast a shadow over all of life to make terrifying. And I'm trying to outgrow the witch now. And has it been like slowly, have you been slowly outgrowing it? No. No. Obviously not. How are you like when you date? Like, Kazi goes on a first date. No.

She doesn't go. It's really like this. This was a first date. There's no difference. Like you rather. I go on a first date and I. I'm like, I can't eat anything here. And also, like, I can't have a drink because I don't want to, you know, have alcohol right now.

They're like, are you sober? No, just not wanting it. It's the least fun thing you could possibly. A date. Oh, my God. And we could go for, like, coffee, I guess. Are we drinking coffee now? I'll drink the coffee, but, like, where are the beans from, you know?

Not having the milk. Whatever they're coming away with after that is that this person is a freak. And, like, I can't. But, like, I don't think. Would you want to date somebody that, like, shares your interest in toxic or non-toxic coffee beans? I think there needs to be a balance. Like, I don't want it to be so much opposite where they are. Like, Katie McDonald.

That the coffee beans are then mixing. And I'm getting secretly, like, poisoned by accident. So we have to have some similarity. Yeah. Yeah. We have to agree. You know what else cracked me up? Hmm.

The depressed version of Anne Hathaway. Thank you. Yeah. That was so, so you saw people posting about it or you came to this conclusion? No, I've gotten that comment a lot. They'll be like, she looks like a tired Anne Hathaway or she seems like a miserable Anne Hathaway. I've also, I've gotten Walmart.

Have you taken it as a compliment? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like Walmart and Hathaway is like a huge compliment for me. Walmart, but like the sad one I wouldn't mind. Oh, sad is great. Sad Ann Hathaway? Yeah, like mysterious.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I'll take that any day. You need to do a calma video of your own. Yeah. That would be funny. Yeah. Calmma.

Calma. Yeah. Yeah. You could pull it off because you're twinses. Great. Thank you. Another thing that I was thinking about throughout this is that, because I told you, there were parts of it that made me anxious, is that you feel comfortable talking about death a lot. Yeah.

And you are Jewish. And this doesn't track for me. Really? Yes. We're so superstitious. We knock on wood. We're like, God willing, we'll live. Like that. You know what I mean?

And you're like, death, death, death. I'm going to die in my grave and my funeral. And I'm like, oh my God, oh my God. Are you knocking on wood? Like, I do knock on wood quite a bit, but only if I say something good. Like, I'm super suspicious if I say something good. If I say something bad, I'm not going to knock on wood. Do you say something good?

Like, if I say I'm going to die, obviously I am. Why do I need to knock on wood? So you're, okay. So if you're like, my book is getting published, you'll knock on wood in case it doesn't, you don't want to jinx that. If someone said your book's going to do great, I would freak out. I'd say go fucking, go knock your head against wood right now. You know?

But I just have like a, I have a 360 awareness of just like the future and the past and the present. And so it's like really hard to not be thinking about all of these things all at the same time. You know what I mean? But everything everywhere all at once. But how do you get? Like you're not scared.

It's not scared. Okay. I mean I'm not scared to talk about it. To die. I'm definitely scared to die. And I'm definitely scared to live. I don't think one is less scary than the other. I know.

When you were talking about thinking about having a kid, which by the way, let's give it, you were like, in this section, you were like, you're going to think this is sweet, some of you. And I was like, it was so sweet. You were talking about one of the pressures you feel about, like, the thoughts of having kids is that your dad is getting older and you want him to be around because sorry, Mom,

he's my favorite person in the entire world. That was, first of all, so sweet. Thanks. The problem is that he doesn't care about having grandchildren. Right. So it's like me, I would just be having a child, basically for them to be able to spend time with my dad.

Right. It's not a good reason to have a child. It's not. And then I would have a kid and he wouldn't even care about it. Right. But I did the math and it's like, I would really have to have a kid you know, now.

And even then it might just my dad could up and die like during my kid's awkward stage thinking the kid's a loser. So I really have to do the math better where it's like the kid either has to be younger or it has to be able to be older which is why I care a lot about my dad's.

Like say cute. Like when maybe like so your dad's really old the kid. Before it turns into a loser. Right. Still cute stage. And these were thoughts that really were going through your head like about the whole baby thing. Oh, for sure, yeah. Did you share that with him?

Yes. And was he like, I don't care? I asked, like, do you care about having grandchildren ever? And he was like, huh, you know, I don't care. Do it if you want. And I was like, that's not good enough. I feel like it's another such a pivotal point about, like, turning 30 is, like, the kid thing. And it is so wild because this is what happens.

You turn 30, you start having the thoughts about the kids. You turn, like, for me, 37. and it's almost not controlled, like, the way you hear about biological clock, which you wrote about as well. And that's like a real thing, right? It starts seeping into your head and you don't even know why. For me, it's now like, you know, like, am I done having kids kind of vibe? Because I need to know now because there's no more time to think about it.

It's like now or never, you know? But you are so young, I will say. I'm reminding you of your young age. Well, you're told a lot of different things about this, right? You're told you either have to freeze your eggs before. you're 30 because then your fertility steeply declines after 30. Right. Which then is that a myth?

I don't know. But then they tell you, no, you can do it at 35. But then I've heard that's a myth because they just want to, they don't want to lose the geriatric market. So they tell you you can do it at any age. So they can keep getting people in. Well, people are having babies today at like 48 ban. Right.

I know. Which is crazy. But then I don't want to regret having a kid early if I could have had one of 48. That would be sick. You're like, I could have lived a really full life. I'm just trying to play it safe, you know. Yeah. But it sucks that you really do have to think about all this stuff even before you're ready. And that's what's interesting about men is that they they don't have to think about it until it's something they want to do or are ready for, you know? And even then, babe, they don't really have to think about it. No, you don't ever. They kind of can just be like, let's do it. And then they're not dealing with the pregnancy or the birth, which you were talking about like as an anxious person is something that the whole thing. And as you hate hospitals, then that's going to be story killed me because. I had such bad gut issues and I would not get an endoscopy.

I would not. No, like, this is the only way we can see what's going on. I'm like, not going under. Not going under. And how was it? I didn't do it, babe. You never did it? No, but I got pregnant and fixed my gut issues.

True story. You were less scared to get pregnant than to get an end upweet. That's crazy. That is really crazy. Yeah, well, I had done a pregnancy before so I knew what that was like. I hadn't done that thing. But you were cracking me up during that story. That's really insane.

The pregnancy? Yeah. That my gut issues went away? Well, no, but now maybe I should get pregnant. But I was going to tell you this. This is going to be a Jason Bateman smartless moment. But you know what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Is that a lot of times pregnancy fixes random things. I have heard this. Like, it's like actually it did cure my gut issues. I had all the things after COVID. I had like the CBO, the H. Pylori. The thing is, is that for me, like my luck. is so that you know that there's things that it fixes

and then there's things that it ruins for the rest of your life. Like I'll have the acne that like never goes away and like ruin my whole body and whatever. Or not. That's like the good stuff like that

doesn't happen really in the cards for me. Because you said also, I saw this TikTok that was really funny that you said that you are like a reverse manifesting. Like you say something that doesn't happen. Yeah, exactly. Truly? Yeah.

All the time. Like you say things out loud and then you're like, fuck. I had to meet with a psychic because I got so scared about my reverse manifestation skills. Stop. And she said. Did she confirm? She said, you're not reverse manifesting. You're predicting.

Okay. So me thinking the worst case scenario, whatever. Yeah. And then it coming true, she just said that I was predicting things and that I really am psychic. Did she? Did she say you had some of the. that you know? Psychics think everyone have. They do think everyone's psychic. Yeah. And all women believe that they're psychic. Do you, what is the crazy? But I really am psychic. What is the craziest in your

journey of the health, wellness, finding yourself MDMA was what was the craziest thing you've done? I've gotten like really scammed before. Yeah. Like is the thing. Yeah, I've gotten seriously scams. The craziest thing I've done recently is that I got like a spinner for my water. because I heard water needs to be oxygenated. So now I'm like pouring water in this thing and it's spinning around. And like what? I don't know.

Like that's ridiculous. Where did you find this info? Like from a lunatic, probably. Like a health lunatic. I live in L.A. and I'm Jewish and I'm scared. And that's what happened. Yeah. And like if you had a baby and you would have to get all the like non-toxic thing.

I really am worried about having a bad personality after having. a baby. Like, I already have seen it with some of my friends. I'm like, I'm not, I really can't have that personality. I feel like, just to know, like, my whole mantra about having kids is like, you can still be you. How funny would that be? You can, but some people really can't. Like, so many of my friends, even just planning weddings have changed so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they don't go back. You think they're going to go back to how they were. Right. But they actually don't. So I saw, what, how could a, planning a party possibly? change you so much. I know. I don't get that. But I don't think that you're that type of person.

No, no, no, for sure not. So I saw that Seth Meyer is still my thing and he did the renaming celebrity segment with you. Oh, were you going to do that? Yes. Oh my God. And I'm still going to do it because I have ideas too. So we're going to go. Okay, great. Yeah, for sure. Seth, I thought about pre-you. Jacob Allorty. Okay. So I think Jacob Allorty is a perfect name for him. Okay. But I think he could also be a Kobe. Okay, I think he could be. Okay, that's not good because Jacob, Jacobi is bad. Okay.

I am going to actually give him Cody. Okay. I think mine's better. What's yours? Philip. No. Babe. You don't have the gift.

I already have the gift. Okay. Okay. I'm going to give you Paul A. Kelly, the guy from Love Story, that's playing J.FK. Jr. His name is Paul A. Kelly. Anton. Okay. I was thinking Dylan.

No. Okay. I have one more. Let's see what you think about this is the girl from love story, Sarah Pigeon. I felt like that's not really her, you know? Yeah. What are you thinking for her? I'm trying to remember what she really looks like.

To me, she looks like an Andy. Okay. I love that. I said Edith. Edith is good. Edith is good. Yes. You did this good.

Yes. Okay. That's great. Okay. Well, you have to go. But thank you for coming. Thank you for having. Yay.

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